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View Full Version : Bobby Portis Flagrant 2 on Tomas Satoransky



THE_LOGO
02-13-2018, 05:58 PM
Forgive me if there's a thread about this. I tried to look for one but couldn't find it.

How was Portis' play flagrant? He went for the ball, hit the ball. There was no intention of pulling Satoransky to the ground. It looks like a normal defensive play, just with an unfortunate outcome. Jodie Meeks make it seem like Satoransky had a wide open lane, like on a breakaway or something. It was on a half court set. Portis was 3 feet away and rotated defensively. From what I saw, its even debatable that there's a foul. So to call a flagrant 2, isn't it excessive?

Vee-Rex
02-13-2018, 06:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLwjMXokNjM

warfelg
02-13-2018, 06:13 PM
Flagrant ď2Ē (FFP2) - unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. The opposing team is awarded two (2) free throws and possession and the player committing the foul is automatically ejected.

I would say by the letter of the rule that was excessive contact that lead to injury. And based on the way they call it, the issue isn't the initial contact, it's the followthrough to push down on the shoulder forcing the landing of the way it was.

Vee-Rex
02-13-2018, 06:21 PM
I would say by the letter of the rule that was excessive contact that lead to injury. And based on the way they call it, the issue isn't the initial contact, it's the followthrough to push down on the shoulder forcing the landing of the way it was.

Yeah, I think when he pushed down at the end it became excessive.

THE_LOGO
02-13-2018, 06:22 PM
I would say by the letter of the rule that was excessive contact that lead to injury. And based on the way they call it, the issue isn't the initial contact, it's the followthrough to push down on the shoulder forcing the landing of the way it was.

Again, I don't see anything as far as a follow through. It looks like a normal motion of an arm moving forward after going for a block. I'm not a fan of either player or team. Just curious what you guys see.

THE_LOGO
02-13-2018, 06:26 PM
Yeah, I think when he pushed down at the end it became excessive.

Thanks for posting the vid. Again I don't see a push down. Well, its already 2 to 1. I might be the only one not seeing this as dirty.

warfelg
02-13-2018, 06:30 PM
Yeah, I think when he pushed down at the end it became excessive.

And without a doubt that what they looked at.


Thanks for posting the vid. Again I don't see a push down. Well, its already 2 to 1. I might be the only one not seeing this as dirty.

Dirty and excessive are not the same thing. What he did was excessive. I wouldn't right away label it as dirty because he didn't do something outside of play. What he did was go for the block, hit the arm, but then he forcibly followed through down on the shoulder of Satoransky which caused him to land face first on the hardwood.

Saddletramp
02-13-2018, 06:58 PM
It was the follow thru.

I remember in the Rockets/Bulls game, Portis goes for a dunk, gets fouled and doesn't make the shot and poses/flexes hard. He then missed at least one of the free throws and got dunked on hard shortly thereafter. I lol'ed. He seems like a fraud.

I don't know what happened exactly between Portis and Mirotic but regardless, it doesn't look good.


Dirty and excessive are not the same thing. What he did was excessive. I wouldn't right away label it as dirty because he didn't do something outside of play. What he did was go for the block, hit the arm, but then he forcibly followed through down on the shoulder of Satoransky which caused him to land face first on the hardwood.

Sounds pretty dirty to me.

THE_LOGO
02-13-2018, 07:03 PM
I don't see the excessive either. Just a natural motion of the arm moving forward after going for a block.

Jeffy25
02-13-2018, 08:02 PM
Miriotic is somewhere saying 'see...?'

lol.

Really rough foul. He went for the ball, it's the follow through that's so unnecessary.

hughest4
02-13-2018, 08:17 PM
Such a tough call and I can see both sides.
I honestly just think it should have been a common foul that happened to cause a very unfortunate fall.

TrueFan420
02-13-2018, 10:12 PM
Thanks for posting the vid. Again I don't see a push down. Well, its already 2 to 1. I might be the only one not seeing this as dirty.

I don't see a push down either... it's a soft league if that's a flagrant 2.

TrueFan420
02-13-2018, 10:18 PM
And without a doubt that what they looked at.



Dirty and excessive are not the same thing. What he did was excessive. I wouldn't right away label it as dirty because he didn't do something outside of play. What he did was go for the block, hit the arm, but then he forcibly followed through down on the shoulder of Satoransky which caused him to land face first on the hardwood.

He literally at no point does he hit his shoulder. Elbow yes but both arms are extended. Hes not pushing him down tho.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2018, 11:02 PM
It's a flagrant. It was extremely excessive contact, whether it was intentional or not.

IndyRealist
02-13-2018, 11:27 PM
I don't see the excessive either. Just a natural motion of the arm moving forward after going for a block.

Not a natural motion when he forced the other player down. Satoransky went from a vertical position to a horizontal position AND spun 90 degrees sideways based solely on Portis' action. He was shoved sideways, not an arm moving forward in a natural motion. That's excessive 100 out of 100 times.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 12:09 AM
Yeah, that's a flagrant foul. Going for the ball has nothing to do with it either. The attempt on the block ended with the foul ... everything after that initial arm to arm contact is where it becomes a flagrant.

mavwar53
02-14-2018, 12:49 AM
Thatís an awful call, should have been a regular foul. It amazes me how people can say this league is soft and yet think that a guy blocking a shot should get a flagrant. Itís not his fault the guy doesnít know how to brace a fall or put himself in an awkward position to do so.

krazylegz
02-14-2018, 12:55 AM
def not a foul at all,not let alone a flagrant...wouldve been better off just the letting the dude dunk i guess

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 08:07 AM
Its a ***** convention on PSD...

This is what the league has become that we now debate a common foul

Kinda like society... we focus on the outcome and not the intent

In reality it is Satoransky's fault because he is so unathletic he tried to make a play he shouldn't have... if you attack the rim like that you need to be able to protect yourself

The call should have been a jump ball at worse

Mell413
02-14-2018, 08:15 AM
I don't see the push that other people see. I'm a Bulls fan but I would be saying the same if the roles were switched.

ewing
02-14-2018, 09:11 AM
You guys have been brainwashed. No way is they excessive or intentional. It was unfortunate.


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ewing
02-14-2018, 09:17 AM
It's not about being brainwashed. It's understanding how they call games. That's a flagrant 2 with the way they call the game now.

And it shouldnít be by rule or common sense. How can an unintended natural motion be excessive? What you are saying is donít play hard


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warfelg
02-14-2018, 09:18 AM
You guys have been brainwashed. No way is they excessive or intentional. It was unfortunate.


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It's not about being brainwashed. It's understanding how they call games. That's a flagrant 2 with the way they call the game now.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 11:04 AM
And it shouldnít be by rule or common sense. How can an unintended natural motion be excessive? What you are saying is donít play hard

In the NFL if you make helmet to helmet contact it's supposed to be an automatic foul ... it doesn't matter if you intended to hit helmet to helmet it's your responsibility to avoid that contact. In this case the direct result of Portis blocking the shot was a player being upended. The result of a flagrant foul was easily predictable and likely is called that way 100 out of 100 times. The game IS softer now, and it's not going to go back to the way it was.

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 11:19 AM
In the NFL if you make helmet to helmet contact it's supposed to be an automatic foul ... it doesn't matter if you intended to hit helmet to helmet it's your responsibility to avoid that contact. In this case the direct result of Portis blocking the shot was a player being upended. The result of a flagrant foul was easily predictable and likely is called that way 100 out of 100 times. The game IS softer now, and it's not going to go back to the way it was.

except this isn't the NFL and the offensive player has an equal responsibility to protect himself

who really cares what the rule is... the pussification of the league is complete with calls like this one.

The quality of play isn't better in the league... the players just don't have to worry about getting fouled anymore when they recklessly attack the rim which is what also creates all the open looks on the perimeter... anyone with a basic knowledge of basketball understands this fact.

To think guys in the 80s 90s and 00s wouldn't be equally good at exploiting the rule changes is laughable

the league wants a Vaggie league to appeal to the broadest audience (ie casual fans of the opposite sex)

mavwar53
02-14-2018, 11:36 AM
It's not about being brainwashed. It's understanding how they call games. That's a flagrant 2 with the way they call the game now.

And there is the problem, you along with many other think of the guy got hurt, automatic flagrant, that is just stupid people drinking the kool-aid, 12 people Iím front of them drank it and no longer have a pulse, so weíre next in line, I guess Iíll drink it too right? Just flat out stupid.

Byronicle
02-14-2018, 11:37 AM
At game speed, it is all ball. But when things slow down, we become mind readers. I get called foul for this all the time and its ridiculous. Its not a big man's fault when someone weak and feeble tries to go up strong, and when the defender has a hand on the ball they fall because they cannot muscle his shot in and as a result of natural physics tend to make someone with less core strength to lose body control.

Honestly, the Washington player when up strong with some explosion but Portis just so happens to be much stronger and had a hand on that ball. If the Washington player released the ball, then we would not be having this conversation but he was going for the dunk. What do you expect Portis to do? To let go mid air? No of course not. He is going to be exerting some strength here because he is trying to prevent a two handed slam, so he is going to be driving some force in the opposite direction. Unfortunately this one arm opposite force was stronger than the Washington players 2 hands and he took the worst of it simply because he didn't blow through Portis' block.

Byronicle
02-14-2018, 11:42 AM
Its a ***** convention on PSD...

This is what the league has become that we now debate a common foul

Kinda like society... we focus on the outcome and not the intent

In reality it is Satoransky's fault because he is so unathletic he tried to make a play he shouldn't have... if you attack the rim like that you need to be able to protect yourself

The call should have been a jump ball at worse

That's because the majority of people here play guard and think they are Kobe Bryant playing hero ball. This is the problem when you play as a big man. Big men tend to weigh more and when they take contact such as a charge, they react less but the guard ricocheting off of them is crying foul.

warfelg
02-14-2018, 11:44 AM
And there is the problem, you along with many other think of the guy got hurt, automatic flagrant, that is just stupid people drinking the kool-aid, 12 people Iím front of them drank it and no longer have a pulse, so weíre next in line, I guess Iíll drink it too right? Just flat out stupid.

Actually that's not what I said at all. I'm saying based on the way they call it now, that's a flagrant 2.

Vee-Rex
02-14-2018, 11:44 AM
Heh, some of you are heated on this subject for absolutely no reason.

I don't know if anyone calling it excessive is necessarily agreeing that the rules SHOULD be that way. Seems they're just saying, "Hey, it's excessive in today's league."

warfelg
02-14-2018, 11:48 AM
Heh, some of you are heated on this subject for absolutely no reason.

I don't know if anyone calling it excessive is necessarily agreeing that the rules SHOULD be that way. Seems they're just saying, "Hey, it's excessive in today's league."

Pretty much. I think there is a part of the "results" bias to it as well. Guy went down on his head, looked really bad, and that's always going to play a part of it.

It's at least a foul either way, but with the way all leagues are going to look at player safety (as we learn more about the long term ramifications of things like head trauma) things like this are going to get called.

By the letter of the rule and how they call it, that's a flagrant 2 these days. That's it.

ewing
02-14-2018, 11:56 AM
In the NFL if you make helmet to helmet contact it's supposed to be an automatic foul ... it doesn't matter if you intended to hit helmet to helmet it's your responsibility to avoid that contact. In this case the direct result of Portis blocking the shot was a player being upended. The result of a flagrant foul was easily predictable and likely is called that way 100 out of 100 times. The game IS softer now, and it's not going to go back to the way it was.

This isn't the NFL and by rule that should have been a common foul. the fact that they call it the way they do doesn'tchange that or justify the call. I'm sure these refs get all kinds of **** from the league about protecting guys from concussion so I am not surprise that sometimes they rule in a way that inconsistent with the rule. Its still a bad call.

ewing
02-14-2018, 12:01 PM
Heh, some of you are heated on this subject for absolutely no reason.

I don't know if anyone calling it excessive is necessarily agreeing that the rules SHOULD be that way. Seems they're just saying, "Hey, it's excessive in today's league."


How can contact be excessive if it was the right play? Portis did what he should have done. I come at this from a players point of view. How can you toss a guy for making the right play. He helped and contested. It was the right play. He committed a foul while doing it and unfortunately a dude that was over extending himself landed hard.

Vee-Rex
02-14-2018, 12:13 PM
How can contact be excessive if it was the right play? Portis did what he should have done. I come at this from a players point of view. How can you toss a guy for making the right play. He helped and contested. It was the right play. He committed a foul while doing it and unfortunately a dude that was over extending himself landed hard.

I'm in agreement.

It's like some of the silly child custody laws regarding the father and mother. Whether or not you disagree with it is irrelevant... it's the law.

Because Portis brought his arm down at the end, I'm sure it was declared excessive and falls in line with why he was ejected. The one guy is right though, we can use slow motion and make things look worse than what they were.

IndyRealist
02-14-2018, 12:17 PM
except this isn't the NFL and the offensive player has an equal responsibility to protect himself

who really cares what the rule is... the pussification of the league is complete with calls like this one.

The quality of play isn't better in the league... the players just don't have to worry about getting fouled anymore when they recklessly attack the rim which is what also creates all the open looks on the perimeter... anyone with a basic knowledge of basketball understands this fact.

To think guys in the 80s 90s and 00s wouldn't be equally good at exploiting the rule changes is laughable

the league wants a Vaggie league to appeal to the broadest audience (ie casual fans of the opposite sex)
If a player is in the air they are considered unable to protect themselves. People arguing this isn't flagrant are ignoring the rules.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 12:38 PM
except this isn't the NFL and the offensive player has an equal responsibility to protect himself

who really cares what the rule is... the pussification of the league is complete with calls like this one.

The quality of play isn't better in the league... the players just don't have to worry about getting fouled anymore when they recklessly attack the rim which is what also creates all the open looks on the perimeter... anyone with a basic knowledge of basketball understands this fact.

To think guys in the 80s 90s and 00s wouldn't be equally good at exploiting the rule changes is laughable

the league wants a Vaggie league to appeal to the broadest audience (ie casual fans of the opposite sex)

So, your point is not if it's legitimately a flagrant or not, it's that you want to go back to the good old days when play was more physical.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 12:40 PM
And there is the problem, you along with many other think of the guy got hurt, automatic flagrant, that is just stupid people drinking the kool-aid, 12 people Iím front of them drank it and no longer have a pulse, so weíre next in line, I guess Iíll drink it too right? Just flat out stupid.

Did anybody say an injury meant a flagrant was automatic? The game is now called to protect the players MUCH more than it used to. Either you understand that fact or not ... in the NBA the way it is now that play is going to be called a flagrant every time, even if the player isn't injured.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 12:42 PM
This isn't the NFL and by rule that should have been a common foul. the fact that they call it the way they do doesn'tchange that or justify the call. I'm sure these refs get all kinds of **** from the league about protecting guys from concussion so I am not surprise that sometimes they rule in a way that inconsistent with the rule. Its still a bad call.

Why "by rule"? "Excessive" is up to the opinion of the refs ... that's in the rules. The main thing we need from refs is consistency and this play gets called a flagrant every time these days ... that makes it a good call.

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 12:44 PM
How can contact be excessive if it was the right play? Portis did what he should have done. I come at this from a players point of view. How can you toss a guy for making the right play. He helped and contested. It was the right play. He committed a foul while doing it and unfortunately a dude that was over extending himself landed hard.

because it wasn't the right play

the Vag's that run the league want that guy to get an uncontested dunk so they can market him as some sort white god going to the hoop and throwing down...

the leagues goal is not competition... its business

Scoots
02-14-2018, 12:46 PM
How can contact be excessive if it was the right play? Portis did what he should have done. I come at this from a players point of view. How can you toss a guy for making the right play. He helped and contested. It was the right play. He committed a foul while doing it and unfortunately a dude that was over extending himself landed hard.

Unfortunately that's they way officiating player safety works today. It's easier to talk about when using the NFL ... if a DE is going for a sack and the QB ducks his head at the last moment resulting in helmet to helmet contact the penalty goes to the defender despite him making the "right play". The league and the players are expecting the players to be involved in protecting each other, and that is nothing new ... I've heard players from the 60s talk about the things you just don't do to other players to protect them ... back then if you did something that put someone at risk another player might take you out in retribution. Yes, today is softer because the players don't get retribution themselves anymore because it's just too expensive. There is no way it's ever going to go back to what it once was.

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 12:46 PM
If a player is in the air they are considered unable to protect themselves. People arguing this isn't flagrant are ignoring the rules.

player should never have gone into the air...

and fwiw... I am not arguing that it isn't a flagrant per the league rules

I am merely pointing out the asininity that it is.

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 12:48 PM
So, your point is not if it's legitimately a flagrant or not, it's that you want to go back to the good old days when play was more physical.

I am not arguing it being flagrant or not in terms of the current rules... I really don't care

And its not the good old days... its called competition...

there is only competition on one end of the court anymore... who can outscore the other team

Vinylman
02-14-2018, 12:49 PM
Why "by rule"? "Excessive" is up to the opinion of the refs ... that's in the rules. The main thing we need from refs is consistency and this play gets called a flagrant every time these days ... that makes it a good call.

and makes the product worse because it is a detriment to competing

ewing
02-14-2018, 01:37 PM
Why "by rule"? "Excessive" is up to the opinion of the refs ... that's in the rules. The main thing we need from refs is consistency and this play gets called a flagrant every time these days ... that makes it a good call.

Because without watching the game I know there were 10 fouls that night where a guy in the air took harder contact. He fell hard bc he over extended himself. Again unfortunate outcome but nothing about the contact was excessive. The offensive player was out of control. Still should get 2 free throws but that is it. It was good D. There would be no reason for retaliation without the ejection either either bc it wasnít a dirty play

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warfelg
02-14-2018, 02:18 PM
player should never have gone into the air...

and fwiw... I am not arguing that it isn't a flagrant per the league rules

I am merely pointing out the asininity that it is.

What do you mean should have never gone in the air? Tomas? Portis?

If you saying the offensive player should have never gone up, Iím sorry thatís a little silly. He had what he thought was an open path to a dunk. He should be going for that every time. And Portis should go for the block every time. But the NBA says the coming down like he did is the part of the play that shouldnít have happened.

prodigy
02-14-2018, 02:40 PM
I hate when people say basketball is soft. LOL its basketball not football ur not suppose to force people to the ground. Don't get me wrong i don't like seeing little bumps called fouls, but this is a flagrant 2 refs got it right.

Firefistus
02-14-2018, 02:50 PM
I honestly don't think this is a flagrant foul. First, his shoulder was no where near Thomas, so I don't know where that theory comes up. But what threw Thomas around was when Portis brought his arm down. And both Thomas and Portis were pushing each other at that point.

I think that's what caused him to go down harder than usual. Thomas looks like he reactively reached for Portis, and Portis shrugged him off by dropping his arm down.

I personally believe this was a flagrant 2 because of the injury that was caused. Which I'm personally fine with. No harm no foul right? Well there was harm and the foul was called.

As for it being unintentional? lol. These guys are NBA players, the best of the best players. You know how to get away with things at this point in the league. There's absolutely NO WAY the players don't know what they are doing or how they react to plays. I never bought it with Green, and I wouldn't buy it with Portis. These guys are doing exactly what they want, they won't admit to wanting to hurt players, but some of these players honestly don't care. They'll hurt anyone in order to get ahead and win a game. That's just how some players are.

Saddletramp
02-14-2018, 03:27 PM
player should never have gone into the air...

and fwiw... I am not arguing that it isn't a flagrant per the league rules

I am merely pointing out the asininity that it is.

So if a player isn't stronger than another guy in his General area, he shouldn't go to the rim? It's fair game to push him down while he's airborne because he's less strong than the defender?

That's one of the most absurd takes I've heard, probably ever.

Saddletramp
02-14-2018, 03:31 PM
Because without watching the game I know there were 10 fouls that night where a guy in the air took harder contact. He fell hard bc he over extended himself. Again unfortunate outcome but nothing about the contact was excessive. The offensive player was out of control. Still should get 2 free throws but that is it. It was good D. There would be no reason for retaliation without the ejection either either bc it wasnít a dirty play

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No, it was bad D. He fouled him and got penalized for it. After he fouled, he pushed down making it excessive. Excessive=flagrant. Flagrant 1 or 2 is debatable. What don't you get?

ewing
02-14-2018, 03:42 PM
No, it was bad D. He fouled him and got penalized for it. After he fouled, he pushed down making it excessive. Excessive=flagrant. Flagrant 1 or 2 is debatable. What don't you get?

I'm not seeing what you are. The guy went for a block and his arm followed through, that is a natural and unavoidable motion. Sometimes you foul while making the correct play. I don't see anything that Portis did wrong.

THE_LOGO
02-14-2018, 04:08 PM
Whew, I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who does not see this as flagrant, or possibly even a foul. I don't see anything unnatural about Portis' actions. From what I see, Portis was going for a block and trying to send the ball 20 rows. The natural motion of his arm is to keep moving forward and all the way down. Of course the better play from Portis was use the vertical rule and just go up and keep your hands up. Even then, I'm not so sure that Satoransky doesn't end up on the floor. It just seemed like he's going up against a brick wall. If Portis was the one going for the dunk and Satoransky was the defender, I'm almost positive that Satoransky ends up on the floor too.

IndyRealist
02-14-2018, 04:12 PM
player should never have gone into the air...

and fwiw... I am not arguing that it isn't a flagrant per the league rules

I am merely pointing out the asininity that it is.

Now you're arguing just to argue.

nastynice
02-14-2018, 04:51 PM
Looked fine to me tbh. Normal block, unfortunate landing

Scoots
02-14-2018, 05:21 PM
I am not arguing it being flagrant or not in terms of the current rules... I really don't care

And its not the good old days... its called competition...

there is only competition on one end of the court anymore... who can outscore the other team

No, the competition still exists, it's just not as physical as it used to be.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 05:22 PM
and makes the product worse because it is a detriment to competing

So there is no competition without violence?

Scoots
02-14-2018, 05:23 PM
Because without watching the game I know there were 10 fouls that night where a guy in the air took harder contact. He fell hard bc he over extended himself. Again unfortunate outcome but nothing about the contact was excessive. The offensive player was out of control. Still should get 2 free throws but that is it. It was good D. There would be no reason for retaliation without the ejection either either bc it wasnít a dirty play

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I didn't say it was dirty. It wasn't a good D, it was a foul when he hit across his arm and I don't think it's good D when someone is fouled ... good D is a clean block.

Scoots
02-14-2018, 05:25 PM
Now you're arguing just to argue.

Welcome to an online forum :)

ewing
02-14-2018, 06:37 PM
I didn't say it was dirty. It wasn't a good D, it was a foul when he hit across his arm and I don't think it's good D when someone is fouled ... good D is a clean block.

In another post you talked about the old days and retaliation taking the place of these types on calls. I don't think that's case b/c its was a wasn't a dirty play. Even in the old days there is no need for anything other then a common foul. With regard to your other point is a "good shot" one that goes in? I don't think so.

Saddletramp
02-15-2018, 03:43 AM
In another post you talked about the old days and retaliation taking the place of these types on calls. I don't think that's case b/c its was a wasn't a dirty play. Even in the old days there is no need for anything other then a common foul.

There doesn't always have to be retaliation when a play like this happens. I don't think Portis purposefully tried to hurt the kid but it happened and it was because of his excessive push down after the foul/block. And maybe one reason why they've called these as flagrant 1 or 2 is to replace the retaliation foul which would some times lead to worse things.


With regard to your other point is a "good shot" one that goes in? I don't think so.

Nope. Wrong again, sweetheart. A player can play good defense and the offensive player can still get the shot in. A shot can be a good shot and not go in. When a player is penalized, it's because of (technically speaking) cheating. Cheating is not a good play.

ewing
02-15-2018, 06:17 AM
Shut it cupcake


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Vinylman
02-15-2018, 08:26 AM
So if a player isn't stronger than another guy in his General area, he shouldn't go to the rim? It's fair game to push him down while he's airborne because he's less strong than the defender?

That's one of the most absurd takes I've heard, probably ever.

no one got pushed down... you guys are a joke that are saying that... it was a contested shot and because the offensive player was physically inferior he got hurt... the league has created the environment where offensive players can attack the rim with reckless abandon because they believe their shots won't be contested....

if you think a player like that attacks like that 25 years ago you need to have your head examined

Vinylman
02-15-2018, 08:27 AM
So there is no competition without violence?

solid logic

warfelg
02-15-2018, 10:45 AM
no one got pushed down... you guys are a joke that are saying that... it was a contested shot and because the offensive player was physically inferior he got hurt... the league has created the environment where offensive players can attack the rim with reckless abandon because they believe their shots won't be contested....

if you think a player like that attacks like that 25 years ago you need to have your head examined

So the offensive player shouldnít be trying to go hard at the rim?

Vinylman
02-15-2018, 11:59 AM
So the offensive player shouldnít be trying to go hard at the rim?

never said that ... he should just understand what can happen when his shot is contested...

this isn't rocket science... you guys focus on the outcome of the play (ie bloody player) to determine right and wrong when the reality is the player who launches himself toward the basket is the one who put himself in danger.

Again... the league is fundamentally **** and I can understand why the new age fans like this type of basketball because it mirrors the soft mentality of current generation.

I never was a fan of Bad Boys Basketball or the Celtics hit on Rambis but this **** has gotten absurd at this point.

ewing
02-15-2018, 12:32 PM
never said that ... he should just understand what can happen when his shot is contested...

this isn't rocket science... you guys focus on the outcome of the play (ie bloody player) to determine right and wrong when the reality is the player who launches himself toward the basket is the one who put himself in danger.

Again... the league is fundamentally **** and I can understand why the new age fans like this type of basketball because it mirrors the soft mentality of current generation.

I never was a fan of Bad Boys Basketball or the Celtics hit on Rambis but this **** has gotten absurd at this point.


I don't think they are getting what you are saying. I do. I remember in 7th grade this dude I was friends with could grab rim easy. I couldn't. One day he keep telling me I could get it. So i ran full speed from 1/2 half court, I jumped, got rim, was thrown competing off balance when I touched the rim, and I landed on my ***. That's what happened to this player. I didn't hit the rim hard, I was overextended.

prodigy
02-16-2018, 11:15 AM
never said that ... he should just understand what can happen when his shot is contested...

this isn't rocket science... you guys focus on the outcome of the play (ie bloody player) to determine right and wrong when the reality is the player who launches himself toward the basket is the one who put himself in danger.

Again... the league is fundamentally **** and I can understand why the new age fans like this type of basketball because it mirrors the soft mentality of current generation.

I never was a fan of Bad Boys Basketball or the Celtics hit on Rambis but this **** has gotten absurd at this point.

Its basketball not football, not rugby, not wrestling etc... Its basketball. Yes theres contact but its not ment to be an insane contact sport.

Please don't start with the snowflake crap lol. I wonder what word master Trump will come up with next that everyone will repeat over and over again.

Scoots
02-16-2018, 11:41 AM
There are 2 debates ... was that the correct call by the ref today and is it the right call for the game. I think it was the correct call by the ref since that's the way the game is being called today and I want it to be consistent. I believe that would be called a flagrant regardless of the participants pretty much all the time in the modern NBA. Is it right for the game? Probably. Professional athletes have short careers and they make a huge amount of money ... the efforts to keep them as healthy as possible for as long as possible will improve the show in the long run by having the number and quality of the stars go up overall.

goingfor28
02-17-2018, 01:18 AM
****** outcome but that's awful they called that a flagrant 2. Shouldn't be anything more than a common foul.

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nastynice
02-17-2018, 01:30 AM
this isn't rocket science... you guys focus on the outcome of the play (ie bloody player) to determine right and wrong .

This. If that play happens and nobody happens to get hurt, not a single person on this forum would think that should be a flagrant

How do I know this? Because the same thing happens about 13 times in every single game and no one randomly starts calling for flagrants

Scoots
02-17-2018, 11:57 AM
If Kawhi doesn't get hurt there is no ongoing talk about Zaza.

KG2TB
02-17-2018, 12:35 PM
Thatís an awful call, should have been a regular foul. It amazes me how people can say this league is soft and yet think that a guy blocking a shot should get a flagrant. Itís not his fault the guy doesnít know how to brace a fall or put himself in an awkward position to do so.

Exactly.

prodigy
02-17-2018, 02:39 PM
If Kawhi doesn't get hurt there is no ongoing talk about Zaza.

ehh, i've heard talks about this rule coming into play for a couple years. but i do agree it takes a star player getting hurt to bring it to light. (i completely agree with this rule btw. you gotta let the guy land cleanly, **** happened to me in high school and i still feel it.)

Scoots
02-17-2018, 04:16 PM
ehh, i've heard talks about this rule coming into play for a couple years. but i do agree it takes a star player getting hurt to bring it to light. (i completely agree with this rule btw. you gotta let the guy land cleanly, **** happened to me in high school and i still feel it.)

But the big BS part of it is that it happened multiple times in that series by Spurs players and I still see it all the time this year despite the supposed emphasis on that play. It's always been a rule that you have to let the offensive player land ... but it got messed up a little when offensive players started moving to get the call and emphasize the contact they created on the landing.

Jamiecballer
02-17-2018, 07:14 PM
I'm not seeing what you are. The guy went for a block and his arm followed through, that is a natural and unavoidable motion. Sometimes you foul while making the correct play. I don't see anything that Portis did wrong.I was under the impression he was blocking a basketball not spiking a volleyball?

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nastynice
02-17-2018, 08:33 PM
I was under the impression he was blocking a basketball not spiking a volleyball?

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That's the type of mentality that get people dunked on :)

ewing
02-18-2018, 07:30 AM
I was under the impression he was blocking a basketball not spiking a volleyball?

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Maybe if he had your BBIQ


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prodigy
02-18-2018, 09:37 AM
But the big BS part of it is that it happened multiple times in that series by Spurs players and I still see it all the time this year despite the supposed emphasis on that play. It's always been a rule that you have to let the offensive player land ... but it got messed up a little when offensive players started moving to get the call and emphasize the contact they created on the landing.

They are not suppose to call the foul if the offensive player forces the contact. (they always do though so ya that sucks). But they also never enforced the letting players land rule. then u have guys like ZAZA who not only won't let you land cleanly but continue to walk into you as ur in mid-air. that gets dirty. Anyone who played the game knows thats how a lot of fights start on the playground.

ewing
02-18-2018, 03:26 PM
They are not suppose to call the foul if the offensive player forces the contact. (they always do though so ya that sucks). But they also never enforced the letting players land rule. then u have guys like ZAZA who not only won't let you land cleanly but continue to walk into you as ur in mid-air. that gets dirty. Anyone who played the game knows thats how a lot of fights start on the playground.

Usually they started when I didnít like someone and said ďin your eye *****Ē J after J


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Jamiecballer
02-18-2018, 04:33 PM
Maybe if he had your BBIQ


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that doesn't even make sense

Jamiecballer
02-18-2018, 04:39 PM
That's the type of mentality that get people dunked on :)

hey, if you are going to bring that kind of force to oppose someone's shot you have an obligation to have some sort of control over it or be ready to pay the consequences that's all.

prodigy
02-22-2018, 01:12 PM
Usually they started when I didnít like someone and said ďin your eye *****Ē J after J


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That too.

Scoots
02-22-2018, 06:13 PM
They are not suppose to call the foul if the offensive player forces the contact. (they always do though so ya that sucks). But they also never enforced the letting players land rule. then u have guys like ZAZA who not only won't let you land cleanly but continue to walk into you as ur in mid-air. that gets dirty. Anyone who played the game knows thats how a lot of fights start on the playground.

And I'm saying Zaza's walk forward at a shooter was repeated many times since by other players including by Aldridge later in that series. It's hardly uncommon ... it was just the injury that made it a big deal.

ewing
02-22-2018, 07:33 PM
That too.

Yeah it was usually bc someone was getting embarrassed


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prodigy
02-24-2018, 11:16 AM
And I'm saying Zaza's walk forward at a shooter was repeated many times since by other players including by Aldridge later in that series. It's hardly uncommon ... it was just the injury that made it a big deal.

Its always been a big deal by anyone that has played basketball. ZAZA's was worse then most. Aldridge prob did it on purpose. ZAZA did what he had to do. Not sure if Warriors were getting out of that series with a healthy K.

prodigy
02-24-2018, 11:17 AM
Yeah it was usually bc someone was getting embarrassed


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I don't see to many fights just because someone was really good lol. Now trash talking is def #1, dirty calls was #2.

Scoots
02-24-2018, 11:48 AM
Its always been a big deal by anyone that has played basketball. ZAZA's was worse then most. Aldridge prob did it on purpose. ZAZA did what he had to do. Not sure if Warriors were getting out of that series with a healthy K.

I'm saying I still see it regularly. I'm in no way defending Zaza, just saying that that thing where a big goes out on a shooter and doesn't stop immediately when the shot goes up and turns and looks back at the shot and ends up under the shooter. I saw it regularly before the Zaza incident, I saw it regularly after and I still see it. It was only a big deal because Kawhi got hurt is the point. Most guys know when someone is in their landing space and they adjust to protect themselves on the way down so there are not many injuries that way. Pop saying that nobody does that is what bugs me most because Zaza's kids were threatened with violence and that's just nuts.

As for Zaza doing it on purpose, I don't think so ... he just doesn't strike me as someone who has that kind of body control. He's the one who hurt KD that year and was lucky it wasn't for the year.

So, again, the injury is what brings about the extra harsh foul ... it's the way the NBA is now.

nastynice
02-24-2018, 11:56 AM
Its always been a big deal by anyone that has played basketball. ZAZA's was worse then most. Aldridge prob did it on purpose. ZAZA did what he had to do. Not sure if Warriors were getting out of that series with a healthy K.

haha, yes you are...

prodigy
02-24-2018, 01:39 PM
haha, yes you are...

true im sure warriors would've lost. i was just trying to be nice about it. lol

nastynice
02-24-2018, 01:40 PM
true im sure warriors would've lost. i was just trying to be nice about it. lol

If you're sure the warriors would've lost last year, and this year's Rox are light years ahead of those spurs, I'm wondering how much you gonna put up if the Dubs and Rox meet in a series

Just don't bet with Vegas, bet with me. That's all I ask

Haha, oh God, I'm tryina keep it cool til playoffs, but bro, this is too much. People think Rox got a chance, lmao!!

We just need the playoffs here already, man!

prodigy
02-24-2018, 01:49 PM
If you're sure the warriors would've lost last year, and this year's Rox are light years ahead of those spurs, I'm wondering how much you gonna put up if the Dubs and Rox meet in a series

Just don't bet with Vegas, bet with me. That's all I ask

Haha, oh God, I'm tryina keep it cool til playoffs, but bro, this is too much. People think Rox got a chance, lmao!!

We just need the playoffs here already, man!

relax breath. everything's gonna be ok. I'm sure the Warriors will pick up Anthony Davis just to make sure nobody will contend with them.

prodigy
02-24-2018, 01:55 PM
If you're sure the warriors would've lost last year, and this year's Rox are light years ahead of those spurs, I'm wondering how much you gonna put up if the Dubs and Rox meet in a series

Just don't bet with Vegas, bet with me. That's all I ask

Haha, oh God, I'm tryina keep it cool til playoffs, but bro, this is too much. People think Rox got a chance, lmao!!

We just need the playoffs here already, man!


Why do you believe no team has any shot vs the Warriors? Warriors are a great team without Durant. Thats why he went there lol. They have a great shot to win the title. But i def think the Rockets can contend with them. IDK if they can win. But I also think the Warriors are a Curry injury away from not even making the finals. anything can happen.

nastynice
02-24-2018, 02:11 PM
Why do you believe no team has any shot vs the Warriors? Warriors are a great team without Durant. Thats why he went there lol. They have a great shot to win the title. But i def think the Rockets can contend with them. IDK if they can win. But I also think the Warriors are a Curry injury away from not even making the finals. anything can happen.

Every team is a superstar injury away from not winning. That's just the nature of the beast

prodigy
02-25-2018, 10:21 AM
Every team is a superstar injury away from not winning. That's just the nature of the beast

Hey i just changed my mind. Warriors will steam roll everyone. Because if games are close ZAZA will just take out the other teams stars.