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valade16
02-08-2018, 06:24 PM
So we do a “top 25 greatest players of all-time list” here on PSD, but I wanted to do a best, not greatest list.

What is the difference?

This is NOT a list that measures a players career or accolades, it is simply a list of, if all the players were in their peak/in their prime/at their best/etc. and all in a draft, who would you take first on your team.

Current List

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
T3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
T3. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Shaquille O’Neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Steph Curry
12. Moses Malone

valade16
02-09-2018, 01:42 PM
Hoping this gets some debate after the trade deadline.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 01:48 PM
If this isn't Wade then we've failed as fans of the game, even though players have been going ahead of him since #10 that shouldn't have this is just too far.

Chronz
02-09-2018, 02:12 PM
If this isn't Wade then we've failed as fans of the game, even though players have been going ahead of him since #10 that shouldn't have this is just too far.
Tmac was better

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 02:44 PM
Tmac was better

Give me Wades 05-06 season over anything Tmac ever did

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 03:14 PM
Give me Wades 05-06 season over anything Tmac ever did

It's a historic season no doubt and I want Wade to go soon but I'd still take Bill Walton in 1977. League MVP (something Wade never did) + Finals MVP. 19ppg/14rpg/5apg/3bpg. He did everything for the Blazers that year and clinched it in the most important game of the season. Blazers Game 6 vs. the Sixers to win the NBA Finals he went for 20 points / 23 rebounds / 7 assists / 8 blocks in a 2 point win.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 03:15 PM
I really feel like Wade is going to be unstoppable in this vote I'm just going to keep pushing Walton hard though in the hopes he lands top 15.

ewing
02-09-2018, 03:17 PM
I really don’t know if there is a case but there seems like there should be a case for young Walton. Anyone want to chime in on that?


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ewing
02-09-2018, 03:18 PM
I really feel like Wade is going to be unstoppable in this vote I'm just going to keep pushing Walton hard though in the hopes he lands top 15.

We posted at the same time. Give me the Walton sell


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KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 03:20 PM
We posted at the same time. Give me the Walton sell


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He's got that Tim Duncan level impact. All-NBA defensive 1st team. Great raw rebounding/block totals. One of my favorite stats is always to compare blocks to fouls. He was 3.2 bpg to only 2.7 fouls per game. That's incredible. For comparison peak Duncan was 2.5 bpg to 2.6 fouls per game. Plus is one of the greatest passing big men of all-time. You could play him with anybody and it would work.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 03:22 PM
Hoping this gets some debate after the trade deadline.

Get in there and mix it up. ;)

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 03:31 PM
Those look like Dwight or Andre Drummond numbers to me.

Tg11
02-09-2018, 03:37 PM
Definitely T-Mac when he was at his peak

dhopisthename
02-09-2018, 03:40 PM
how is 30.2/7.5/5/57.4ts% so much better then 32/5.5/7.4/63.5ts%? I think wade is being massively overrated. tmac is 32.1/5.5/6.5/56.4ts%

YAALREADYKNO
02-09-2018, 03:44 PM
I’ll lean Tmac over Wade here

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 04:07 PM
Those look like Dwight or Andre Drummond numbers to me.

Can you just do me a favor and link me to the nba finals game where they had 7 assists and 8 blocks?

valade16
02-09-2018, 04:12 PM
Those look like Dwight or Andre Drummond numbers to me.

The points/rebounds do. But when you include everything we see just how much more well rounded Walton was.

For one he was a DPOY level player. 2 he blocked more than either Dwight or Drummond (while fouling less). 3 he is considered among the best passing big men ever (and averaged 5 APG) in 78. 4 he could actually shoot FTs (shooting 67.4% in Portland).

His playoff numbers are pretty ridiculous the year they won the title:

18.2 PPG, 15.2 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.1 SPG, 3.4 BPG

It'd be like imagining if Nikola Jokic played Dwight Howard level Defense. Or if Kevin Love did.

Sly Guy
02-09-2018, 04:14 PM
every time I see lists like this I think of how overrated I think LBJ is. I'd take MJ, Kobe, Shaq, and Magic without hesitation over him. (probably hakeem too)

And I can't say my list would be complete because I don't think I can give a fair shake to anyone who's peak was before 1990 or so. Lists like this are rife with recency bias.

valade16
02-09-2018, 04:17 PM
how is 30.2/7.5/5/57.4ts% so much better then 32/5.5/7.4/63.5ts%? I think wade is being massively overrated. tmac is 32.1/5.5/6.5/56.4ts%

I don't know who the second set of stats is, but T-Mac's 02-03 was one season that appears to be an outlier. His TS% that season was a result of taking a ton of 3's (6 per game) and making 38.6% of them, a feat he never really duplicated again. He is a career 33.8% 3PT shooter and even his Orlando/Houston days is only 34.1%. Can we count on T-Mac to make his 3's at that level or was that more an anomaly? Consider his next highest TS% season (the year before) was .532. His playoff TS% is .512 and he never had a series higher than .561 (which is admittedly pretty good).

I just don't think you can count on T-Mac's scoring efficiency to be at that level considering how much of anomaly that year was for him for 3point shooting.

dhopisthename
02-09-2018, 05:29 PM
the 2nd guy is Durant who has gotten zero mention and not a single vote so far.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 05:29 PM
Can you just do me a favor and link me to the nba finals game where they had 7 assists and 8 blocks?

If you can do me a favor and link me to a finals series Walton had that was better than Wade in 06.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 05:31 PM
You guys are talking straight numbers and not taking the full picture into account. Wade led his team to a championship, the other guys didn't come close.

If I'm picking from players at their peak to lead my team to a championship in a finals series I'm taking barely anyone over Wade. For sure not TMac Curry Walton or KD

ewing
02-09-2018, 05:35 PM
You guys are talking straight numbers and not taking the full picture into account. Wade led his team to a championship, the other guys didn't come close.

If I'm picking from players at their peak to lead my team to a championship in a finals series I'm taking barely anyone over Wade. For sure not TMac Curry Walton or KD

Walton did. He was league and finals MVP


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WaDe03
02-09-2018, 05:49 PM
Walton did. He was league and finals MVP


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Look at his competitors for MVP that year, that's very weak. His finals or numbers aren't near as impressive as Wades ether.

valade16
02-09-2018, 05:51 PM
If you can do me a favor and link me to a finals series Walton had that was better than Wade in 06.

Well his one finals he averaged:

18.5 PPG, 19.0 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.0 SPG, 3.7 BPG.

That's pretty good lol. I mean, that's pretty insane when you think about it. Especially since the Blazers lost the first 2 games and Walton put up 20 pts, 18 reb, 9 ast, 4 blcks in Game 3 to get Portland back into it.

And more amazingly, in Game 6 (a 2 point Blazer win) he put up: 20 points, 23 rebounds, 7 assists, and 8 blocks to clinch the title and avoid a game 7.


So while Wade had a truly historic performance in the Finals, Walton's was one of the better ones all-time as well, certainly not a negative for him at least.

ewing
02-09-2018, 06:01 PM
Look at his competitors for MVP that year, that's very weak. His finals or numbers aren't near as impressive as Wades ether.

I’d rather not


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valade16
02-09-2018, 06:14 PM
Granted this is from before 2005, but this is a list of greatest Finals performances and Walton's game 6 is 10th:

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/greatest_finals_performances.html

Here's another list that has his Finals 7th:

http://www.espn.com/page2/s/list/nba/finals/performances.html

Here's one that has his Game 6 13th:

https://www.foxsports.com/south/gallery/20-greatest-single-game-performances-in-nba-finals-history-053014


Seems most agree he was very good in his Finals performance.

GREATNESS ONE
02-09-2018, 06:16 PM
every time I see lists like this I think of how overrated I think LBJ is. I'd take MJ, Kobe, Shaq, and Magic without hesitation over him. (probably hakeem too)

And I can't say my list would be complete because I don't think I can give a fair shake to anyone who's peak was before 1990 or so. Lists like this are rife with recency bias.

:clap:

valade16
02-09-2018, 06:35 PM
You guys are talking straight numbers and not taking the full picture into account. Wade led his team to a championship, the other guys didn't come close.

If I'm picking from players at their peak to lead my team to a championship in a finals series I'm taking barely anyone over Wade. For sure not TMac Curry Walton or KD

What are you talking about? Portland had never even made the playoffs before Walton led them to the title.

They won 27 games the year before Walton, then 38 his rookie year, Then 2 years later they won the title.

The Blazers won a title with a healthy Walton, the next year they had the best record in the league before Walton got hurt and they lost in the 1st round. Walton definitely led the Blazers to that title. He and the Blazers even beat Kareem and the Lakers to get to the Finals, then beat Dr. J and the 76ers.

Even more impressively, that year only 3 teams won 50+ games (Denver, LA, Philly) and Walton's Blazers beat all 3 in the playoffs.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 06:35 PM
Can you just do me a favor and link me to the nba finals game where they had 7 assists and 8 blocks?

If you can do me a favor and link me to a finals series Walton had that was better than Wade in 06.

BRUH it's not ranking the top finals performances the best player at their Peak. Wade and Walton both had massive impact on offense but Walton also had massive impact on defense that Wade did not.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 06:40 PM
What are you talking about? Portland had never even made the playoffs before Walton led them to the title.

They won 27 games the year before Walton, then 38 his rookie year, Then 2 years later they won the title.

The Blazers won a title with a healthy Walton, the next year they had the best record in the league before Walton got hurt and they lost in the 1st round. Walton definitely led the Blazers to that title. He and the Blazers even beat Kareem and the Lakers to get to the Finals, then beat Dr. J and the 76ers.

Even more impressively, that year only 3 teams won 50+ games (Denver, LA, Philly) and Walton's Blazers beat all 3 in the playoffs.

I was talking Wade TMac and KD.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 06:41 PM
BRUH it's not ranking the top finals performances the best player at their Peak. Wade and Walton both had massive impact on offense but Walton also had massive impact on defense that Wade did not.

BRUH Wade is much better. You guys are hyping up a guy who averaged 19-14 in a watered down league.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 06:41 PM
Granted this is from before 2005, but this is a list of greatest Finals performances and Walton's game 6 is 10th:

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/greatest_finals_performances.html

Here's another list that has his Finals 7th:

http://www.espn.com/page2/s/list/nba/finals/performances.html

Here's one that has his Game 6 13th:

https://www.foxsports.com/south/gallery/20-greatest-single-game-performances-in-nba-finals-history-053014


Seems most agree he was very good in his Finals performance.

So he was good but not as good as Wade whether we're talking Finals, regular season, etc.

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 06:42 PM
Also I brought up who you would take in a finals series because you're going to take the best player every time! It's that simple!!!!!!!

WaDe03
02-09-2018, 06:43 PM
I’d rather not


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Then see yourself tf out!!!!!!

valade16
02-09-2018, 07:03 PM
I was talking Wade TMac and KD.

Oh, well yeah I agree there.

Pfeifer
02-09-2018, 07:42 PM
The answer here is Oscar

Shammyguy3
02-09-2018, 07:56 PM
These rankings make me want to play an All-Time Redraft/Auction/Etc game bad

valade16
02-09-2018, 08:22 PM
These rankings make me want to play an All-Time Redraft/Auction/Etc game bad

LOL, same! But wait, the season is nearing an end and we'll play one of them!

KnicksorBust
02-09-2018, 09:03 PM
BRUH it's not ranking the top finals performances the best player at their Peak. Wade and Walton both had massive impact on offense but Walton also had massive impact on defense that Wade did not.

BRUH Wade is much better. You guys are hyping up a guy who averaged 19-14 in a watered down league.

Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

Shammyguy3
02-09-2018, 09:58 PM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

http://media.tmz.com/2015/05/05/0505-dwayne-wade-gabriel-union-dressy-instagram-7.jpg

Wade's got dress skills on Bill, fo show

KnicksorBust
02-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

http://media.tmz.com/2015/05/05/0505-dwayne-wade-gabriel-union-dressy-instagram-7.jpg

Wade's got dress skills on Bill, fo show

My b. U right.

FlashBolt
02-10-2018, 10:49 AM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

70's was watered down due to ABA and NBA for a better half of that decade. Not sure how you can even argue that 70's was even remotely close to some of the other years we've seen. Walton was a great talent but let's not kid ourselves in regards to competition. Pace was also much higher than it has been in modern NBA so 20/14 should have been very achieveable for a player of his talent quite easily. Personally, I would put KG here.

tredigs
02-10-2018, 11:17 AM
70's was watered down due to ABA and NBA for a better half of that decade. Not sure how you can even argue that 70's was even remotely close to some of the other years we've seen. Walton was a great talent but let's not kid ourselves in regards to competition. Pace was also much higher than it has been in modern NBA so 20/14 should have been very achieveable for a player of his talent quite easily. Personally, I would put KG here.

By 77 the leagues were merged again.

KnicksorBust
02-10-2018, 01:37 PM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

70's was watered down due to ABA and NBA for a better half of that decade. Not sure how you can even argue that 70's was even remotely close to some of the other years we've seen. Walton was a great talent but let's not kid ourselves in regards to competition. Pace was also much higher than it has been in modern NBA so 20/14 should have been very achieveable for a player of his talent quite easily. Personally, I would put KG here.

Such inconsistencies in arguments. If Era is king then Wilt should not have gone. If scoring is king then why aren't we talking about Iverson or Karl Malone. What did KG do better than Walton? Mid-range jump shots?

cmellofan15
02-10-2018, 01:41 PM
Are we really considering a guy who never won a league MVP and best feat is getting a bunch of ridiculous foul calls against Dirk and the gang over Bill Walton????

JAZZNC
02-10-2018, 01:44 PM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

But he not good as Wade, cause Finals!


You're not gonna win with this homer. I've never seen anybody so pathetically eat up with one player (Well maybe Chronz with T-Mac).

Ironman5219
02-10-2018, 01:55 PM
why is Karl Malone not on the list?????

WaDe03
02-10-2018, 02:08 PM
Are we really considering a guy who never won a league MVP and best feat is getting a bunch of ridiculous foul calls against Dirk and the gang over Bill Walton????

Wade should've went 10th.

WaDe03
02-10-2018, 02:14 PM
It's funny people use no MVP against Wade when he played in an era where prime LeBron actually tried in the regular season. Sorry but Walton isn't winning an MVP over LeBron either.

Let's not act like Wade isn't the only person to ever put up the total stats he put up in the 08-09 season and I believe the only person to ever have those averages was Jordan. Also the only guard to ever finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY other than Jordan. So you have 08-09 where he's the only person to ever do it or the only other person is the GOAT. Then you have 05-06 which is the full package and 2nd greatest finals performance ever.

The only thing that kept Wade from an MVP was the 2nd greatest place ever and injuries specifically in 06-07 where he was running away with it before getting injured.

The Wade haters would be sick if he didn't get injured as he would for sure be top 10 ever.

tredigs
02-10-2018, 02:35 PM
This is actually a very tough decision, even among players not yet mentioned.

Shammyguy3
02-10-2018, 04:17 PM
Alright, change my vote to Bill Walton

KnicksorBust
02-10-2018, 05:28 PM
Based on what? Because he scored more points?

Boiling down Bill Walton to "19-14 in a watered down league" is blasphemous. He is the basketball junkies favorite player. He is one of the few older players that I actually cared about tracking down and watching them play. He brought everything to the table BRUH. He was an elite passer. He scored an efficient 20ppg every night. He was the best rebounder in the league. His outlet passing is legendary making his teammates better. He was a great defender. He was a rim protector. He was Tim ****ing Duncan in the 70s only he was a BETTER passer but scored less.

Do you put Wade above Duncan?
Can you even make an argument based on skills?

But he not good as Wade, cause Finals!


You're not gonna win with this homer. I've never seen anybody so pathetically eat up with one player (Well maybe Chronz with T-Mac).

:laugh:

KnicksorBust
02-10-2018, 06:14 PM
It's funny people use no MVP against Wade when he played in an era where prime LeBron actually tried in the regular season. Sorry but Walton isn't winning an MVP over LeBron either.

Let's not act like Wade isn't the only person to ever put up the total stats he put up in the 08-09 season and I believe the only person to ever have those averages was Jordan. Also the only guard to ever finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY other than Jordan. So you have 08-09 where he's the only person to ever do it or the only other person is the GOAT. Then you have 05-06 which is the full package and 2nd greatest finals performance ever.

The only thing that kept Wade from an MVP was the 2nd greatest place ever and injuries specifically in 06-07 where he was running away with it before getting injured.

The Wade haters would be sick if he didn't get injured as he would for sure be top 10 ever.

Bron has how many MVPs? Wade has been in the league how many years? Gtfo with that argument.

mightybosstone
02-10-2018, 08:08 PM
I was really torn on who to vote for, but when I saw McGrady somehow tied with Wade for the lead, that pretty much made my decision for me. McGrady doesn't deserve to be ahead of Wade on any list. I get that the guy had one incredible season, but you guys who voted on him are REALLY jumping on the gun on him. He probably deserves to go in the top 25 on this list, but 13th? That's freaking insane.

More-Than-Most
02-10-2018, 08:36 PM
Tmac easily over wade

mightybosstone
02-10-2018, 08:39 PM
Tmac easily over wade

...Are you drunk?

KnicksorBust
02-10-2018, 08:43 PM
I was really torn on who to vote for, but when I saw McGrady somehow tied with Wade for the lead, that pretty much made my decision for me. McGrady doesn't deserve to be ahead of Wade on any list. I get that the guy had one incredible season, but you guys who voted on him are REALLY jumping on the gun on him. He probably deserves to go in the top 25 on this list, but 13th? That's freaking insane.

I am expecting you to join me on the Walton crusade at #14 then.

mightybosstone
02-11-2018, 12:48 PM
I am expecting you to join me on the Walton crusade at #14 then.

Assuming Wade still goes here, I'm really torn on the next vote. For me, it's a toss up between Barkley, Robinson, Robertson, Walton and Durant. Those five are definitely in the next group, but I don't really know who I'd pick as the definitive top guy among the five.

WaDe03
02-11-2018, 01:16 PM
Bron has how many MVPs? Wade has been in the league how many years? Gtfo with that argument.

If you don't think Wades had MVP level season you need to gtfo, Walton can't hold Wades dick with his Andre Drummond numbers.

WaDe03
02-11-2018, 01:17 PM
But he not good as Wade, cause Finals!


You're not gonna win with this homer. I've never seen anybody so pathetically eat up with one player (Well maybe Chronz with T-Mac).

You probably think Stockton should go, stick to bass fishing.

Heediot
02-11-2018, 01:22 PM
2008 (roughly) Chris Paul was a beast, unfortunately at 24-25 that was his nba prime due to injuries. Even then, Chris had mad game. If he didn't get such a career changing injury, I think he's be gone by now. Difference between him and Rose, is Paul adjusted and wins and is effective up stairs. Skill and IQ is so good, that he remains one of the best PG's ever. I think Paul has a case at this point, regardless of what could have been.

mightybosstone
02-11-2018, 01:26 PM
Definitely T-Mac when he was at his peak


how is 30.2/7.5/5/57.4ts% so much better then 32/5.5/7.4/63.5ts%? I think wade is being massively overrated. tmac is 32.1/5.5/6.5/56.4ts%


I’ll lean Tmac over Wade here

The problem with T-Mac over Wade is this: Wade's overall prime is vastly superior to McGrady, and if you're using a one-year sample size to justify McGrady, how can you possibly pick McGrady's 02-03 season over Wade's 05-06 season?

You can't possibly argue McGrady over Wade with a 3-5 year window, because if you take away T-Mac's 02-03 season, nothing else he ever did remotely touches Wade's best years. And it's not close. But then you look at McGrady's 02-03 season, which was exceptionally brilliant. But it was a regular season accomplishment, his team barely finished above .500 and then he wasn't remotely as good in that seven-game sample size against the Pistons and his team was knocked out in the first round.

Wade's 05-06 regular season pales in comparison to McGrady, but his postseason accomplishments that year were truly stellar. Like "all-time great individual postseasons" level of stellar. So if McGrady's prime pales in comparison to Wade, and Wade's one-year peak is at least on par with, if not vastly superior because of the postseason performance, then how could you possibly argue T-Mac over Wade?

Seriously, those who voted for McGrady, what's your justification here?

mightybosstone
02-11-2018, 01:30 PM
2008 (roughly) Chris Paul was a beast, unfortunately at 24-25 that was his nba prime due to injuries. Even then, Chris had mad game. If he didn't get such a career changing injury, I think he's be gone by now. Difference between him and Rose, is Paul adjusted and wins and is effective up stairs. Skill and IQ is so good, that he remains one of the best PG's ever. I think Paul has a case at this point, regardless of what could have been.
I think I'll start arguing for Paul somewhere in the 18-20 range. His 07-08 and 08-09 seasons were truly special, but because he played with such inferior talent in New Orleans, his postseason resume just gets overshadowed by other a few other guys in this conversation right now. I think he's probably behind Wade, Durant and maybe Walton, but I'd put him in the same conversation as guys like Barkley and Robinson.

cmellofan15
02-11-2018, 01:38 PM
If you don't think Wades had MVP level season you need to gtfo, Walton can't hold Wades dick with his Andre Drummond numbers.

Lmao what an idiotic argument..you could just as easily say that Wade put up “Jerry Stackhouse numbers”

JAZZNC
02-11-2018, 03:05 PM
You probably think Stockton should go, stick to bass fishing.

Typical response from you buddy. Keep up the good work. You haven't said anything other than stuff like "Drummond numbers" and "but that one Finals when he shot a million free throws". Walton has a very legit case made by people who are a lot more knowledgeable about the game than you are but they are just "Wade haters". When people make legit arguments against your opinion of Wade you just regress to lame name calling or terrible two sentence responses with no substance. Like I said, keep up the good work.

KnicksorBust
02-11-2018, 03:09 PM
I am expecting you to join me on the Walton crusade at #14 then.

Assuming Wade still goes here, I'm really torn on the next vote. For me, it's a toss up between Barkley, Robinson, Robertson, Walton and Durant. Those five are definitely in the next group, but I don't really know who I'd pick as the definitive top guy among the five.

You know you wouldn't take drob this high. Dont joke around and pretend stats rule your life that much.

Chronz
02-11-2018, 06:17 PM
The problem with T-Mac over Wade is this: Wade's overall prime is vastly superior to McGrady, and if you're using a one-year sample size to justify McGrady, how can you possibly pick McGrady's 02-03 season over Wade's 05-06 season?

You can't possibly argue McGrady over Wade with a 3-5 year window, because if you take away T-Mac's 02-03 season, nothing else he ever did remotely touches Wade's best years. And it's not close. But then you look at McGrady's 02-03 season, which was exceptionally brilliant. But it was a regular season accomplishment, his team barely finished above .500 and then he wasn't remotely as good in that seven-game sample size against the Pistons and his team was knocked out in the first round.

Wade's 05-06 regular season pales in comparison to McGrady, but his postseason accomplishments that year were truly stellar. Like "all-time great individual postseasons" level of stellar. So if McGrady's prime pales in comparison to Wade, and Wade's one-year peak is at least on par with, if not vastly superior because of the postseason performance, then how could you possibly argue T-Mac over Wade?

Seriously, those who voted for McGrady, what's your justification here?

You missed out on peak tmac. He deteriorated quickly and played in the toughest defensive era and sacrificed his body in ways most stars of today are protected from. Put peak athlete tmac in today's era of spacing and no hc he too enjoys the same statistical boost we saw league wide, particularly quicker lead guards. I was far more impressed with what tmac got out of his squads when both carried trash. Tmac was a superstar who's game elevated in the post season, that's a rare trait when defenses can load up on you.

There's also something to be said for the pressure his skill put on defenses, like if all things were equal, I'll take the higher skilled player, easier acclimate team wise

Chronz
02-11-2018, 06:19 PM
You know you wouldn't take drob this high. Dont joke around and pretend stats rule your life that much.

It's either Walton or Barry to be honest.

Chronz
02-11-2018, 06:53 PM
Jerry West had one of the more sustained peak stretches of play for awhile if we're discounting outlier seasons like tmacs. Dude was unstoppable for like 3 straight years and carried the squad when Elgin/wilt went down

KnicksorBust
02-11-2018, 06:53 PM
You know you wouldn't take drob this high. Dont joke around and pretend stats rule your life that much.

It's either Walton or Barry to be honest.

Walton at #14 would make me happy.

Chronz
02-11-2018, 07:18 PM
Yeah i just looked it up, how is it not Jerry West? Can't go with Rick Barry for 1 year on West level when the guy was far more consistent.

Jerry West: 1964-65 to 1969-70
Regular Season Stats: 29.4 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 6.4 APG, 49-84 shooting, 405 games played

Playoff Stats: 32.5 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 6.6 APG, 48-82 shooting, 77 games played

Accolades: One-time Finals MVP (1969), one-time scoring champion (1970), five NBA Finals (1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1970)

When Elgin blew out his knee minutes into the playoffs, west scored 101 points in the opening 2 games of their series vs the bullets.
46.3 scoring average is the highest for any playoff series. Followed that campaign with what arguably Should've been his MVP season and somehow his scrub team nearly derailed the Celtics dynasty. The man couldn't have possibly been tasked with more, would've had a title if Elgin didn't suffer his injury or if he himself doesn't pull his hamstring. That Don Nelson lucky fkn game winner really damaged his legacy. He ends that stretch with another runner up mvp finish (to guys we've already listed) and displays a chameleon like ability to fit in to entirely different environments/ roles.

KnicksorBust
02-12-2018, 12:48 PM
Change my vote from Walton to T-Mac. ;)

Who won?

Chronz
02-12-2018, 01:52 PM
Feel dumber for not arguing west. Don't give me that crap about what wade would do in whatever era, dude suffered a career altering injury playing against children in college, he would last 2 seasons in the old days, oh and his infamous carries would be destroyed.

Chronz
02-12-2018, 01:53 PM
Change my vote from Walton to T-Mac. ;)

Who won?
Better than wade that's for sure

WaDe03
02-12-2018, 02:25 PM
Feel dumber for not arguing west. Don't give me that crap about what wade would do in whatever era, dude suffered a career altering injury playing against children in college, he would last 2 seasons in the old days, oh and his infamous carries would be destroyed.

West and Mcgrady aren't **** to Wade. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Chronz
02-12-2018, 02:39 PM
West and Mcgrady aren't **** to Wade. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Is today opposite day or did you forget the green font. Was it purple .? Either way you flicked up

Chronz
02-12-2018, 02:42 PM
Seriously we voted curry and its not laughable but go back in time when the league was more physical and brute play mattered, as there were no 3pt equalizer and its hard for you youth to imagine west? He was curry before curry only a great defender. Honestly, peak west would **** on this version of the game in terms of performance. Just like Wilt, he was ahead of his time. West was THE first truly efficient 2 way perimeter superstar.

Chronz
02-12-2018, 02:44 PM
Same with tmac, you youngsters don't know what a different game it was. It's so homogenized today that we ignore league averages at every other stage of the game. Honestly, this game needs another rule change in favor of defenses or big men for once.

WaDe03
02-12-2018, 02:49 PM
Chronz, it is way too early for you to be this drunk!

Chronz
02-12-2018, 02:54 PM
You don't know me

Shammyguy3
02-12-2018, 02:56 PM
T-mac and Wade tied

KnicksorBust
02-12-2018, 03:10 PM
T-mac and Wade tied

I switched my vote from Walton to T-Mac.

mightybosstone
02-12-2018, 03:20 PM
I switched my vote from Walton to T-Mac.

Wow dude. Really? I expected more from you. Terrible vote...

WaDe03
02-12-2018, 03:26 PM
You don't know me

Yes I do.