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Jeffy25
02-06-2018, 11:27 PM
Small Forwards, or Shooting Forwards are a bit of a spread position....but here is my list


1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. Durant
4. Erving
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Pierce
8. Shayes
9. Wilkins
10. Dantley

FlashBolt
02-06-2018, 11:29 PM
1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. KD
4. Erving
5. Pippen
6. Pierce
7. Worthy
8. Carmelo
9. Havlicek
10. Wilkins

Jeffy25
02-06-2018, 11:37 PM
1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. KD
4. Erving
5. Pippen
6. Pierce
7. Worthy
8. Carmelo
9. Havlicek
10. Wilkins

No Baylor?

FlashBolt
02-06-2018, 11:40 PM
No Baylor?

It was either Havlicek or Baylor for me. I just felt because of his wins (hate or like it) he deserves the nod. Don't particularly mind Baylor either but I didn't want to choose two from that generation. I included Wilkins but he could be bumped off for Baylor. Wilkins is actually overrated to me. Playoffs failure who just never seemed to care enough.

Jamiecballer
02-07-2018, 12:41 AM
I dont know, im not criticizing these lists but something just seems wrong to me seeing paul pierce right after scottie pippen. Is it me or is there a monster gap there?

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mightybosstone
02-07-2018, 12:57 AM
Without a ton of thought put into this, my list would look something like:
1. Lebron
2. Bird
3. Dr. J
4. Durant
5. Pippen
6. Havlicek
7. Baylor
8. Pierce
9. Worthy
10. Barry
----------------
11. Wilkins
12. Dantley
13. Melo
14. Mullin
15. King

mightybosstone
02-07-2018, 12:59 AM
Small Forwards, or Shooting Forwards are a bit of a spread position....but here is my list

1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. Durant
4. Erving
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Pierce
8. Shayes
9. Wilkins
10. Dantley

Dolph Schayes was considered a big man in his era. Wouldn't really consider him a SF, and his numbers don't justify being that high on the list, IMO. The lack of Hondo on this is list is easily the biggest omission. Havlicek should absolutely be on anyone's list of all-time greatest small forwards.

Lakers + Giants
02-07-2018, 04:10 AM
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Bird
4. Erving
5. Pippen
6. Havlicek
7. Baylor
8. Pierce
9. Kawhi
10. Wilkins

FlashBolt
02-07-2018, 05:31 AM
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Bird
4. Erving
5. Pippen
6. Havlicek
7. Baylor
8. Pierce
9. Kawhi
10. Wilkins

Damn, you've got Kawhi already? No shame in his game but it's way too early.

Lakers + Giants
02-07-2018, 05:56 AM
Damn, you've got Kawhi already? No shame in his game but it's way too early.

Yea, I feel what he's been able to do on both ends already is pretty incredible. While I do think it's too early I love his game. Do I really believe he's already top 10? Maybe not but he's definitely already close imo in terms of peak play.

ewing
02-07-2018, 07:45 AM
I dont know, im not criticizing these lists but something just seems wrong to me seeing paul pierce right after scottie pippen. Is it me or is there a monster gap there?

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Honestly I think it is you.


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Jamiecballer
02-07-2018, 10:40 AM
Honestly I think it is you.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFair enough. I feel like Pippen is twice the player Pierce was but i dont have objective data to back that.

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WaDe03
02-07-2018, 11:12 AM
Yea, I feel what he's been able to do on both ends already is pretty incredible. While I do think it's too early I love his game. Do I really believe he's already top 10? Maybe not but he's definitely already close imo in terms of peak play.

He does have a very impressive ring and finals MVP as well. That's more than some can say. He needs to stay healthy and he'll be on everyone's list eventually.

mightybosstone
02-07-2018, 11:20 AM
Kawhi is an interesting case. If this were a peak only conversation, he'd absolutely deserve consideration in the top 10. But I'd like to see him play a little longer and prove that the last two seasons weren't a fluke before I'd put him anywhere near my top 10 in an all-time conversation.

KnicksorBust
02-07-2018, 12:45 PM
Without a ton of thought put into this, my list would look something like:
1. Lebron
2. Bird
3. Dr. J
4. Durant
5. Pippen
6. Havlicek
7. Baylor
8. Pierce
9. Worthy
10. Barry
----------------
11. Wilkins
12. Dantley
13. Melo
14. Mullin
15. King

Your posts are almost annoying good these days.

tredigs
02-07-2018, 01:01 PM
1. Bron
2. Bird
3. Dr. J (have to include his ABA career)
4. KD
5. Elgin Baylor (too low on most of these lists)
6. Rick Barry*
7. Pippen
8. Hondo
9. Paul Pierce
10. Nique.

*Can't ignore Rick Barry in the ABA either (ditto Dr. J), which is maybe why he's so low or missing from people's lists? This guy was a staple on the All NBA or ABA first team for a decade depending on what league he was in, and had one of the most potent 1-Man-Show Titles in NBA history.

Kawhi only has 3 elite seasons and 2 superstar level seasons. He needs to get a couple more to pass career All Stars even though his peak is there.

mightybosstone
02-07-2018, 02:10 PM
Your posts are almost annoying good these days.

:hi5: It is really hard being right all the time. It's both a gift and a curse.

flea
02-07-2018, 10:23 PM
1. Bird
2. Lebron
3. Hondo
4. Pippen
5. Durant
6. Barry
7. Dr. J
8. Worthy
9. Wilkins
10. Pierce

YAALREADYKNO
02-07-2018, 11:48 PM
Lebron
Bird
Durant
Erving
Pippen
Baylor
Wilkins
Pierce
Mcgrady
Worthy

mightybosstone
02-07-2018, 11:52 PM
1. Bird
2. Lebron
3. Hondo
4. Pippen
5. Durant
6. Barry
7. Dr. J
8. Worthy
9. Wilkins
10. Pierce

Wow. Erving at 7? What's up with your hate of Dr. J?

FlashBolt
02-08-2018, 02:04 AM
Wow. Erving at 7? What's up with your hate of Dr. J?

He has Bird over LeBron. I think hate of Dr.J is the second question we should be asking. And Hondo is an absolute great but I'm not sure how he at any point of his career came close to being half as good as KD is.

More-Than-Most
02-08-2018, 02:45 AM
1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. KD
4. Erving
5. Pippen
6. Pierce
7. Worthy
8. Carmelo
9. Havlicek
10. Wilkins

i actually like your list outside of Melo... Id have baylor there and melo probably 15 at best... Why the love for Melo in your opinion?

FlashBolt
02-08-2018, 03:26 AM
i actually like your list outside of Melo... Id have baylor there and melo probably 15 at best... Why the love for Melo in your opinion?

Honestly, I didn't feel comfortable having two from that generation in there. I get it, Baylor was a machine but it's 40 years ago. It was either him or Hondo and I just had to reward the winner in Hondo there. I'm not sure why Melo at 15. He's had a bad reputation throughout his career that is legitimate but Melo is 15th in All-Time PPG, has been rather consistent most of his career, and to be honest, he was just miscategorized his entire career because he came out of college with the reputation of being a winner and capable of >LeBron but then he wasn't even in discussion with Wade/LeBron a few years later. Teams just built around him expecting a 1st option player and that's where it ended up being evident that he's a 2nd option player on a championship team. Plus, he's really never had the talent that some of the guys above him have had. Pierce is probably very overrated. Losing many games with Celtics until KG+Allen came along.. but I respect his long career.

Chronz
02-08-2018, 07:47 AM
Bron
Bird
KD
Doc
Barry
Pippen/Baylor/Hondo
Pierce
Wilkins

ewing
02-08-2018, 09:20 AM
Not even a honorable mention for Alex English? 8 time all star top 25 in scoring. 13 season 24 a night for his career

Heediot
02-08-2018, 10:04 AM
Personally, I think Pierce is a better go to guy vs. Pippen. Pierce is the guy you want with the ball in his hands late in the game. Pippen is still the better overall player.

Heediot
02-08-2018, 10:05 AM
Not even a honorable mention for Alex English? 8 time all star top 25 in scoring. 13 season 24 a night for his career

Some of these guys can be either/or SG-SF. Rick Barry and Alex English types. It depends where one personally labels them.

ewing
02-08-2018, 10:41 AM
Personally, I think Pierce is a better go to guy vs. Pippen. Pierce is the guy you want with the ball in his hands late in the game. Pippen is still the better overall player.

I disagree. Pip is definitely more of a jack of all trades but he just isn't a better player. IMO the guy went from slightly underrated during his playing career to massively overrated after his career. People make such big deal about the Bulls winning 50 games without Mike and losing the 2nd round. So what? They were a good team, with system and culture in place, that overachieved a little one year. He also failed on 2 super teams post Bulls. With all his chances what was his biggest playoff moment? Getting a headache, getting pissed b/c his team had the good sense to go to Kukoc, choking in game 7 against the lakers? Shawn Marion with the good fortune of playing next to the greatest might be a little harsh but I don't think its far off either.

mightybosstone
02-08-2018, 10:53 AM
Not even a honorable mention for Alex English? 8 time all star top 25 in scoring. 13 season 24 a night for his career

English is at the tail end of that grouping of Wilkins, Dantley and Melo. Those guys who could score from anywhere on the floor, but they didn't do much else at an elite level and they didn't achieve anything in the playoffs. Mullin is probably in there somewhere as well, and in hindsight, English might deserve to be ranked ahead of Mullin.

ewing
02-08-2018, 11:08 AM
English is at the tail end of that grouping of Wilkins, Dantley and Melo. Those guys who could score from anywhere on the floor, but they didn't do much else at an elite level and they didn't achieve anything in the playoffs. Mullin is probably in there somewhere as well, and in hindsight, English might deserve to be ranked ahead of Mullin.

I donít think he is top 10 either but probably deserves to me mentioned.


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Heediot
02-08-2018, 11:13 AM
I disagree. Pip is definitely more of a jack of all trades but he just isn't a better player. IMO the guy went from slightly underrated during his playing career to massively overrated after his career. People make such big deal about the Bulls winning 50 games without Mike and losing the 2nd round. So what? They were a good team, with system and culture in place, that overachieved a little one year. He also failed on 2 super teams post Bulls. With all his chances what was his biggest playoff moment? Getting a headache, getting pissed b/c his team had the good sense to go to Kukoc, choking in game 7 against the lakers? Shawn Marion with the good fortune of playing next to the greatest might be a little harsh but I don't think its far off either.

I do agree with a lot of this. To be fair for Pippen he left Chi after his prime, so he was on the decline. Pierce game probably aged better. Pippen is arguably the goat perimeter defender though and he could be a nice complementary scorer. Other then Pierce's scoring and having more balls IMO, Pippen was the better ball handler, passer, rebounder, defender. Pippen's scoring wasn't shabby either.

ewing
02-08-2018, 11:39 AM
I do agree with a lot of this. To be fair for Pippen he left Chi after his prime, so he was on the decline. Pierce game probably aged better. Pippen is arguably the goat perimeter defender though and he could be a nice complementary scorer. Other then Pierce's scoring and having more balls IMO, Pippen was the better ball handler, passer, rebounder, defender. Pippen's scoring wasn't shabby either.

Pip was great defensive player but it was really the only thing he was really elite at. Him an Paul were both decent rebounders for the spot. I wouldn't say either had a edge or really impacted the game there. Pip was a better passer but did he really create more for others then PP?- a good passer that demanded a ton of defensive attention. Pip could create pace handling the ball/lead a break and PP really didn't but again PP could handle. I think PP might actually be better at dribbling a basketball, he was just slower. I take a great offensive player that hits big buckets and is good elsewhere over a great defensive player that's good elsewhere most times (even if the defensive guy has slight edges in the overlapping elsewheres) I wouldn't if I already have a Micheal Jordan on the team but

Heediot
02-08-2018, 11:46 AM
Pip was great defensive player but it was really the only thing he was really elite at. Him an Paul were both decent rebounders for the spot. I wouldn't say either had a edge or really impacted the game there. Pip was a better passer but did he really create more for others then PP?- a good passer and demanded a ton of defensive attention. Pip could create pace handling the ball/lead a break and PP really didn't but again PP could handle. I take a great offensive player that hits big buckets and is good elsewhere over a great defensive player that's good elsewhere most times. The only time I really don't is if I already have a Micheal Jordan on the team.

That's a fair and legit angle. It's kind of like Draymond, he is a highly ranked player top 10-15, but there are others guys you would pick as the centerpiece of your team over him.

mightybosstone
02-08-2018, 11:58 AM
Pip was great defensive player but it was really the only thing he was really elite at. Him an Paul were both decent rebounders for the spot. I wouldn't say either had a edge or really impacted the game there. Pip was a better passer but did he really create more for others then PP?- a good passer and demanded a ton of defensive attention. Pip could create pace handling the ball/lead a break and PP really didn't but again PP could handle. I take a great offensive player that hits big buckets and is good elsewhere over a great defensive player that's good elsewhere most times. The only time I really don't is if I already have a Micheal Jordan on the team.

Pippen absolutely created more for others than Pierce did. Pippen's career AST% was 23.1, which is 138th best all-time. For a small forward to do that in an era where the term "point-forward" wasn't even really a thing is extremely impressive.

Also, while I love the games of both guys and enjoy supporting them in all-time conversations, I absolutely think Pippen should be ranked higher than Pierce. Despite Pierce getting way more offensive opportunities in his career than Pippen, Scottie's advanced numbers are on par with, or in some cases better, than Pierce's.

And while Pierce put up some eye-popping offensive numbers in Boston before KG and Ray got there, what exactly did he accomplish before that trio formed? He appeared in one ECF and went to the playoffs only four times despite playing in the inferior conference for years, and he made two All-NBA third teams. Not exactly a stellar resume.

If KG and Ray don't join the Celtics, not only does Pierce not get the title, but I honestly don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now. He earned his reputation as a top 5-10 all-time SF for his time playing with those guys, and when you compare his numbers in those seasons compared to Pippen's numbers in Chicago, he hardly looks like a superior player to Scottie.

Consider that Pippen averaged essentially 20/7/5/2/1 from 92-98 with a 21+ PER, a .190+ WS/48 and a 6+ BPM. Pierce's first two seasons with that trio (07-08, 08-09), he was basically a 20/5/4/1 guy with an 18-19 PER, a similar WS/48 and much lower BPM and VORP numbers.

So when you factor in Scottie's reputation as arguably the greatest perimeter defender in NBA history and the six rings, I just think he had the superior career. Yes, he was a No. 2 essentially his entire career, but he's probably the greatest No. 2 of all-time. Pierce had his chance as an alpha dog, but he didn't do anything with it. Like Scottie, he was much more successful playing with other star players.

ewing
02-08-2018, 12:43 PM
Pippen absolutely created more for others than Pierce did. Pippen's career AST% was 23.1, which is 138th best all-time. For a small forward to do that in an era where the term "point-forward" wasn't even really a thing is extremely impressive.

Also, while I love the games of both guys and enjoy supporting them in all-time conversations, I absolutely think Pippen should be ranked higher than Pierce. Despite Pierce getting way more offensive opportunities in his career than Pippen, Scottie's advanced numbers are on par with, or in some cases better, than Pierce's.

And while Pierce put up some eye-popping offensive numbers in Boston before KG and Ray got there, what exactly did he accomplish before that trio formed? He appeared in one ECF and went to the playoffs only four times despite playing in the inferior conference for years, and he made two All-NBA third teams. Not exactly a stellar resume.

If KG and Ray don't join the Celtics, not only does Pierce not get the title, but I honestly don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now. He earned his reputation as a top 5-10 all-time SF for his time playing with those guys, and when you compare his numbers in those seasons compared to Pippen's numbers in Chicago, he hardly looks like a superior player to Scottie.

Consider that Pippen averaged essentially 20/7/5/2/1 from 92-98 with a 21+ PER, a .190+ WS/48 and a 6+ BPM. Pierce's first two seasons with that trio (07-08, 08-09), he was basically a 20/5/4/1 guy with an 18-19 PER, a similar WS/48 and much lower BPM and VORP numbers.

So when you factor in Scottie's reputation as arguably the greatest perimeter defender in NBA history and the six rings, I just think he had the superior career. Yes, he was a No. 2 essentially his entire career, but he's probably the greatest No. 2 of all-time. Pierce had his chance as an alpha dog, but he didn't do anything with it. Like Scottie, he was much more successful playing with other star players.

he won finals mvp when he had his chance as an alpha dog. PP got an EFC what Scottie do without Micheal Jordan? Nothing and he had better opportunities then PP. lastly if you think Scottie is anywhere near the scorer I disagree. If you think his defensive impact made up for the fact that Paul was just a better offensive player fine but Iíll point to the fact he doesnít have one really memorable playoff moment despite all the opportunities. Playing that many playoff series shouldnít a great #2 have some?


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tredigs
02-08-2018, 12:59 PM
ewing are you going to make Scottie do this to you again??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVL66Mfgv8Q

ewing
02-08-2018, 01:05 PM
ewing are you going to make Scottie do this to you again??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVL66Mfgv8Q

Well played. if he had won the series I would have remembered it. too bad he didn't hit a shot in game 7


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Jamiecballer
02-08-2018, 01:44 PM
Pippen absolutely created more for others than Pierce did. Pippen's career AST% was 23.1, which is 138th best all-time. For a small forward to do that in an era where the term "point-forward" wasn't even really a thing is extremely impressive.

Also, while I love the games of both guys and enjoy supporting them in all-time conversations, I absolutely think Pippen should be ranked higher than Pierce. Despite Pierce getting way more offensive opportunities in his career than Pippen, Scottie's advanced numbers are on par with, or in some cases better, than Pierce's.

And while Pierce put up some eye-popping offensive numbers in Boston before KG and Ray got there, what exactly did he accomplish before that trio formed? He appeared in one ECF and went to the playoffs only four times despite playing in the inferior conference for years, and he made two All-NBA third teams. Not exactly a stellar resume.

If KG and Ray don't join the Celtics, not only does Pierce not get the title, but I honestly don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now. He earned his reputation as a top 5-10 all-time SF for his time playing with those guys, and when you compare his numbers in those seasons compared to Pippen's numbers in Chicago, he hardly looks like a superior player to Scottie.

Consider that Pippen averaged essentially 20/7/5/2/1 from 92-98 with a 21+ PER, a .190+ WS/48 and a 6+ BPM. Pierce's first two seasons with that trio (07-08, 08-09), he was basically a 20/5/4/1 guy with an 18-19 PER, a similar WS/48 and much lower BPM and VORP numbers.

So when you factor in Scottie's reputation as arguably the greatest perimeter defender in NBA history and the six rings, I just think he had the superior career. Yes, he was a No. 2 essentially his entire career, but he's probably the greatest No. 2 of all-time. Pierce had his chance as an alpha dog, but he didn't do anything with it. Like Scottie, he was much more successful playing with other star players.Plus one. As a radio personality pierce is definitely better but Scottie Pippen defecates on Pierce as a player.

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ewing
02-08-2018, 01:48 PM
Plus one. As a radio personality pierce is definitely better but Scottie Pippen defecates on Pierce as a player.

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who hit more big shots? PP as member of the Washington Wizards or Scottie over the course of his NBA career?

tredigs
02-08-2018, 06:17 PM
Well played. if he had won the series I would have remembered it. too bad he didn't hit a shot in game 7


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I mean he had 20/16/5 in his road G7. You asked for a memorable playoff moment, that is one of THE most memorable playoff moments. You know what Paul Pierce's most memorable playoff moment is? This:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8926557/0_JenbAtPinQnLtmy1..0.jpeg
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8926559/0_iK5_XDP2BXTSRURS..0.png

mightybosstone
02-08-2018, 06:31 PM
he won finals mvp when he had his chance as an alpha dog. PP got an EFC what Scottie do without Micheal Jordan? Nothing and he had better opportunities then PP. lastly if you think Scottie is anywhere near the scorer I disagree. If you think his defensive impact made up for the fact that Paul was just a better offensive player fine but Iíll point to the fact he doesnít have one really memorable playoff moment despite all the opportunities. Playing that many playoff series shouldnít a great #2 have some?

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I definitely don't think you can call Pierce the "alpha dog" of that 07-08 Celtics squad. KG's numbers in the regular season and postseason were both vastly superior. Also, I don't think Pierce making it to the ECF is some huge accomplishment necessarily. They won 44 games that season, and the East was truly a dumpster fire of a conference at the time.

Considering that Pierce had nine seasons with the Celtics before KG and Ray joined and the best he could do was one trip to the ECF and two All-NBA third teams, I'm just not that impressed. To rip on Scottie for not accomplishing more with MJ, I'm not really sure how that's fair. He only got one full season in Chicago without MJ, and that team still managed to win 55 games and take the Knicks to seven games in the second round despite Horace Grant being their second best player.

We'll never really know how Scottie could have done as a No. 1 somewhere. I agree with you that Pierce is the better pure scorer, but give Scottie the edge in literally everything else.

ewing
02-08-2018, 07:04 PM
I mean he had 20/16/5 in his road G7. You asked for a memorable playoff moment, that is one of THE most memorable playoff moments. You know what Paul Pierce's most memorable playoff moment is? This:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8926557/0_JenbAtPinQnLtmy1..0.jpeg
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8926559/0_iK5_XDP2BXTSRURS..0.png

I remember the game he had a lot of rebounds and bricked everything including most of his free throws but If you want to post 20 and 16 and pretend he didnít choke thatís cool


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ewing
02-08-2018, 07:32 PM
I definitely don't think you can call Pierce the "alpha dog" of that 07-08 Celtics squad. KG's numbers in the regular season and postseason were both vastly superior. Also, I don't think Pierce making it to the ECF is some huge accomplishment necessarily. They won 44 games that season, and the East was truly a dumpster fire of a conference at the time.

Considering that Pierce had nine seasons with the Celtics before KG and Ray joined and the best he could do was one trip to the ECF and two All-NBA third teams, I'm just not that impressed. To rip on Scottie for not accomplishing more with MJ, I'm not really sure how that's fair. He only got one full season in Chicago without MJ, and that team still managed to win 55 games and take the Knicks to seven games in the second round despite Horace Grant being their second best player.

We'll never really know how Scottie could have done as a No. 1 somewhere. I agree with you that Pierce is the better pure scorer, but give Scottie the edge in literally everything else.

Did you actually watch that post season? PP was the alpha dog on that team. KG had 13 in game 7 against the Cavs and played like he was allergic to the ball. Paul dropped 40 going head to head with Bron. He was also the go to guy when they closed out Detroit, and was finals MVP. He wasn't "the superstar" on the team but he absolutely was the alpha dog on that team. I also don't get how PP accomplishments don't mean and anything and Scottie failure don't mean anything. PP was a scoring machine who came up big when it counted. His teams sucked before Ray and KG. Scottie was a swiss knife that was on 3 great teams, he got 6 rings, but he really didn't up his game. Why coudn't Scottie step up and do what Paul did with Cylde and Dream, or with a stacked Portland team? He wasn't good enough, that's why. Yeah he was better at other areas of the game but so what? There is a huge gap b/t being able to score like one guy and that other. If he had Ewing or Morning type impact on the defensive I could see it but he was wing and it not like PP had a ****** all around game.

Jamiecballer
02-08-2018, 07:36 PM
who hit more big shots? PP as member of the Washington Wizards or Scottie over the course of his NBA career?I can barely even remember he was on the fricken wizards

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ewing
02-08-2018, 07:51 PM
I can barely even remember he was on the fricken wizards

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I guess you didn't watch the 2015 playoffs. Dude was clutch

Chronz
02-08-2018, 07:56 PM
who hit more big shots? PP as member of the Washington Wizards or Scottie over the course of his NBA career?
Celtics would've crushed if they had Pippen in place of pierce. Pierce wasn't very clutch during that run

ewing
02-08-2018, 09:14 PM
Celtics would've crushed if they had Pippen in place of pierce. Pierce wasn't very clutch during that run

True but you think a second round exit is over achieving


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tredigs
02-08-2018, 10:14 PM
I remember the game he had a lot of rebounds and bricked everything including most of his free throws but If you want to post 20 and 16 and pretend he didnít choke thatís cool


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I barely remember the series now but when you're the best scorer, playmaker and defender on your 55 win team that pushed the other guys (the favorite and the best D in the league) to a 2nd round G7, it's tough to knock his efficiency too much. It was easily a more impressive campaign then we ever saw from Pierce, and he was All NBA 1st Team + All D 1st Team (again) accordingly.

Jamiecballer
02-08-2018, 10:16 PM
I guess you didn't watch the 2015 playoffs. Dude was clutchI stopped after the Raptors got knocked out by some washed up guy with old man strength

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ewing
02-08-2018, 10:30 PM
I barely remember the series now but when you're the best scorer, playmaker and defender on your 55 win team that pushed the other guys (the favorite and the best D in the league) to a 2nd round G7, it's tough to knock his efficiency too much. It was easily a more impressive campaign then we ever saw from Pierce, and he was All NBA 1st Team + All D 1st Team (again) accordingly.


I disagree and dont see what the 2 things have to do with one another? If they won 42 games and squeaked in and he threw bricks I'd still say he threw bricks.

ewing
02-08-2018, 10:50 PM
I stopped after the Raptors got knocked out by some washed up guy with old man strength

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word

tredigs
02-08-2018, 11:00 PM
I disagree and dont see what the 2 things have to do with one another? If they won 42 games and squeaked in and he threw bricks I'd still say he threw bricks.

What two things? I'm saying he was doing it all for his team and took his lesser squad to a G7 against a team that lost in the Finals in a G7. Nothing sorry about his performance in the least. Pierce won a FMVP, but KG was the leader and best player of that team. PP was a better scorer than Pippen. And it was not a significant advantage. Pip was better at running the floor (both in transition as a playmaker and as a scorer), was a better playmaker in general, and was a top defender in history. He brings a lot more to the table that ****s with opponents and their game plans. He was better.

Chronz
02-08-2018, 11:08 PM
True but you think a second round exit is over achieving


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Just making the playoffs can be over achieving

ewing
02-08-2018, 11:12 PM
What two things? I'm saying he was doing it all for his team and took his lesser squad to a G7 against a team that lost in the Finals in a G7. Nothing sorry about his performance in the least. Pierce won a FMVP, but KG was the leader and best player of that team. PP was a better scorer than Pippen. And it was not a significant advantage. Pip was better at running the floor (both in transition as a playmaker and as a scorer), was a better playmaker in general, and was a top defender in history. He brings a lot more to the table that ****s with opponents and their game plans. He was better.

no he wasn't nanana poo poo. he was a better defender and better in transition. he was not a top defender in history. he was a elite wing defender. he applied great pressure and covered a ton of ground. He didn't make teams elite defensively. He didn't even shut dudes down. Yeah he was one of the best wing defenders in the league for a long time but this Bill Russell narrative in just revisionist history. I've never seen a guy's stock raise more based on people who cant or barely remember his career.

tredigs
02-09-2018, 12:29 AM
no he wasn't nanana poo poo. he was a better defender and better in transition. he was not a top defender in history. he was a elite wing defender. he applied great pressure and covered a ton of ground. He didn't make teams elite defensively. He didn't even shut dudes down. Yeah he was one of the best wing defenders in the league for a long time but this Bill Russell narrative in just revisionist history. I've never seen a guy's stock raise more based on people who cant or barely remember his career.

Lol he was definitely a significant reason why the Bulls were always an elite Defense, and he was All NBA D 1st Team for a decade accordingly. Was he the best defender ever? No. But as a wing you won't find a list where he isn't top 5, and if you're making lists of All Time "All Defensive Teams" (don't take my word for it, search all the lists from ball sites you can find), he's not falling past the 2nd team. It's a far bigger gap than the difference between PP and his offense, that is for sure.

ewing
02-09-2018, 06:21 AM
Lol he was definitely a significant reason why the Bulls were always an elite Defense, and he was All NBA D 1st Team for a decade accordingly. Was he the best defender ever? No. But as a wing you won't find a list where he isn't top 5, and if you're making lists of All Time "All Defensive Teams" (don't take my word for it, search all the lists from ball sites you can find), he's not falling past the 2nd team. It's a far bigger gap than the difference between PP and his offense, that is for sure.

So he was a great wing defender. He along with Micheal and Horace were the reason the bulls were a good defensive team. Did Scottie have the kind of impact defensively that a Ben Wallace did? A Mutimbo? A Ewing? Not close. Now was he a ďvery good scorerĒ anywhere other then in transition? Not really. Did he show when **** got scary for his teams? No. Its just to big a gap to make up with elite vs good wing defense.

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flea
02-10-2018, 05:23 PM
Wow. Erving at 7? What's up with your hate of Dr. J?

Overrated because MJ liked him. His only 'ship was on a stacked team where he performed more like a #3 than a #2 because of how good Cheeks was. Those Sixers as a whole sort of underachieved, but it's somewhat understandable when you're in the same conference as Bird's Celtics.

I just think Dr. J is much closer to Wilkins than he is to Bird, and he must be behind Barry for reasons of accomplishments. I haven't seen much of Hondo but I respect what he did, especially since the Celtics weren't really stacked towards the end of the 60s and they really weren't as stacked in the 70s even though they sort of retain that reputation because of how stacked they were in the early and mid 60s.

JAZZNC
02-12-2018, 09:14 AM
true but you think a second round exit is over achieving


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lmfao!

Chronz
02-12-2018, 10:42 AM
lmfao!
Never heard of an upset huh Lmfao.

Hey guys, the we believe warriors didn't overachieve when they took Dirks soul