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valade16
02-02-2018, 11:55 AM
So we do a “top 25 greatest players of all-time list” here on PSD, but I wanted to do a best, not greatest list.

What is the difference?

This is NOT a list that measures a players career or accolades, it is simply a list of, if all the players were in their peak/in their prime/at their best/etc. and all in a draft, who would you take first on your team.

Current List

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
T-3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
T-3. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Shaquille O’Neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Kobe Bryant

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 11:58 AM
Wade, peak Wade is better than peak Kobe.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 12:07 PM
Still Curry.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 12:08 PM
Wade, peak Wade is better than peak Kobe.

I agree with you. But not better than peak Curry...

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 12:23 PM
I agree with you. But not better than peak Curry...

When it mattered most he was though. Much better all around too.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 12:27 PM
When it mattered most he was though. Much better all around too.

Which year of prime Wade (including playoffs) was better than prime Curry?

LeonFSU
02-02-2018, 12:29 PM
McGrady

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 12:31 PM
Which year of prime Wade (including playoffs) was better than prime Curry?

2005-06. 2008-09 he was definitely a better player but didn't have the roster to do much in the playoffs.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 12:32 PM
When it mattered most he was though. Much better all around too.

So... yes and no. Wade's 2006 Finals run was remarkable. One of the all-time best and a signature postseason moment. But after that year, what major postseason accomplishments can we give him? He played some pretty pedestrian postseason basketball the seasons following that, when the Heat were eliminated in the first round three straight years. And then he gave us one more really good postseason with Lebron before his production started falling off a cliff in the regular season and postseason.

Those last three postseasons for the Lebron/Wade/Bosh trio, I often felt like the Heat were winning games in series in spite of Wade's play. The guy just wasn't the same player anymore and clearly had hit a wall.

Meanwhile, Curry may not have a signature moment like that, but I look at his overall body of work, and the guy has had his fair share of big games and shots. Wade's postseason resume overall is better, but I don't think I'd give Wade the edge based solely on that.

GREATNESS ONE
02-02-2018, 12:39 PM
Wade, peak Wade is better than peak Kobe.

ewww

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 12:52 PM
So... yes and no. Wade's 2006 Finals run was remarkable. One of the all-time best and a signature postseason moment. But after that year, what major postseason accomplishments can we give him? He played some pretty pedestrian postseason basketball the seasons following that, when the Heat were eliminated in the first round three straight years. And then he gave us one more really good postseason with Lebron before his production started falling off a cliff in the regular season and postseason.

Those last three postseasons for the Lebron/Wade/Bosh trio, I often felt like the Heat were winning games in series in spite of Wade's play. The guy just wasn't the same player anymore and clearly had hit a wall.

Meanwhile, Curry may not have a signature moment like that, but I look at his overall body of work, and the guy has had his fair share of big games and shots. Wade's postseason resume overall is better, but I don't think I'd give Wade the edge based solely on that.

Let's look at the 4 years following 06:

06-07: leading the MVP race but gets injured and forces himself back early for the playoffs to try and defend the title. Definitely shouldn't have came back, had more offseason surgery.

07-08: still injured, ended up shutting it down and I believe had more surgery.

08-09: returns and leads USA to gold, only guard other than Jordan to ever finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY. Only player to ever have 2000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season, increased his teams win total by 28 with his return (I believe I read that's the most ever). Look at his supporting cast for this year, he had no business pushing the Hawks to 7.

09-10: same here, look at the roster. Balled out in the playoffs against a Celtics team they were the clear underdogs against.

Wade was good the first 2 years of the big 3 but played on one leg in 2013 and played on half a leg in 2014. He still had some very big moments to help the 2013 team win it all. He was huge in game 7, and his best game was a crucial game 4. Big game in game 5 I believe too but they lost. When he was bad he was bad though I'll say that, but they were still able to pull it out and couldn't have done it without his big moments as well.

Meanwhile Curry consistently underperformed in the finals prior to getting KD to the point that a role player won finals MVP and then he choked a 3-1 lead and choke away game 7 in epic fashion on his home court even with green playing out of his *** offensively.

Chronz
02-02-2018, 12:58 PM
West, wade tmac or someone I'm forgetting like Moses or someone

GREATNESS ONE
02-02-2018, 01:01 PM
^ Lonzo Ball?

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 01:02 PM
2005-06. 2008-09 he was definitely a better player but didn't have the roster to do much in the playoffs.

None of those years make up for the amazing 2015-16 regular season dominance of Curry.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:08 PM
None of those years make up for the amazing 2015-16 regular season dominance of Curry.

Yes it does lol. Did the season end in 2015-16 after the regular season?

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 01:09 PM
Yes it does lol. Did the season end in 2015-16 after the regular season?

Curry averaged 25/5/5 in the playoffs. Advanced numbers don't show a large upside from Wade that surpasses Curry's regular season.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:09 PM
So I have a question, based on everything you've seen, if you had Wade Kobe and Curry in their primes and had to win a finals series some of you are actually going to take Curry over Wade or Kobe? Just seems crazy to me.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 01:10 PM
So I have a question, based on everything you've seen, if you had Wade Kobe and Curry in their primes and had to win a finals series some of you are actually going to take Curry over Wade or Kobe? Just seems crazy to me.

This isn't asking you who the better NBA Finals player is. By that logic, Curry probably isn't even top 25.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 01:17 PM
Let's look at the 4 years following 06:

06-07: leading the MVP race but gets injured and forces himself back early for the playoffs to try and defend the title. Definitely shouldn't have came back, had more offseason surgery.

07-08: still injured, ended up shutting it down and I believe had more surgery.
I don't care about excuses. This isn't "Who was the best player at his peak assuming he was healthy 100 percent of the time?" Injuries should be a factor.


08-09: returns and leads USA to gold, only guard other than Jordan to ever finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY. Only player to ever have 2000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season, increased his teams win total by 28 with his return (I believe I read that's the most ever). Look at his supporting cast for this year, he had no business pushing the Hawks to 7.

09-10: same here, look at the roster. Balled out in the playoffs against a Celtics team they were the clear underdogs against.
This also isn't "Who was the best player assuming they had the same supporting casts?" I certainly take supporting casts into account when I look at postseason success, but Wade's individual numbers were also not that great in those postseasons after 2006. Also, you can post all the accolades in the world from 2008-09. But Wade never had a season remotely in the same ballpark as Curry's 15-16 year.


Wade was good the first 2 years of the big 3 but played on one leg in 2013 and played on half a leg in 2014. He still had some very big moments to help the 2013 team win it all. He was huge in game 7, and his best game was a crucial game 4. Big game in game 5 I believe too but they lost. When he was bad he was bad though I'll say that, but they were still able to pull it out and couldn't have done it without his big moments as well.
Exactly. Inconsistent. And it's not that I'm not giving him credit for 2006. He deserves it, and that was a huge moment for him and a major piece to his resume in a conversation like this. But he didn't exactly blow me away with anything postseason-wise after that. And while Curry has also been wildly inconsistent at times in the playoffs, and he's had a TON of help in his career as well, he does have the two rings and he did post some great numbers during last year's title run.

Wade certainly has an edge there, but it's not so huge that it makes up for Curry's overall superior performance as a player at his peak over Wade.

dhopisthename
02-02-2018, 01:25 PM
its to bad oscar was so long ago. I think he could be in this convo.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:28 PM
I don't care about excuses. This isn't "Who was the best player at his peak assuming he was healthy 100 percent of the time?" Injuries should be a factor.


This also isn't "Who was the best player assuming they had the same supporting casts?" I certainly take supporting casts into account when I look at postseason success, but Wade's individual numbers were also not that great in those postseasons after 2006. Also, you can post all the accolades in the world from 2008-09. But Wade never had a season remotely in the same ballpark as Curry's 15-16 year.


Exactly. Inconsistent. And it's not that I'm not giving him credit for 2006. He deserves it, and that was a huge moment for him and a major piece to his resume in a conversation like this. But he didn't exactly blow me away with anything postseason-wise after that. And while Curry has also been wildly inconsistent at times in the playoffs, and he's had a TON of help in his career as well, he does have the two rings and he did post some great numbers during last year's title run.

Wade certainly has an edge there, but it's not so huge that it makes up for Curry's overall superior performance as a player at his peak over Wade.

The last 2 years with the big 3 he wasn't in his prime so I'm not sure why that's brought up.

You asked me about the years following 06 so I told you, he was injure half the time and had **** surrounding him the other half.

Take your regular season guy, I'll take the guy who's a much better all around player and will step up on the biggest stage at a GOAT level.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:29 PM
This isn't asking you who the better NBA Finals player is. By that logic, Curry probably isn't even top 25.

So you would take Wade and Kobe over Curry, the better players. You take the better player every time.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 01:34 PM
So you would take Wade and Kobe over Curry, the better players. You take the better player every time.

Okay. And I take Curry. And I can't imagine anyone else taking otherwise. Kobe will always get Kobe votes from Kobe fans but Curry's impact on a team outperforms both Wade and Kobe.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:39 PM
Okay. And I take Curry. And I can't imagine anyone else taking otherwise. Kobe will always get Kobe votes from Kobe fans but Curry's impact on a team outperforms both Wade and Kobe.

I just find that hard to believe when Curry underperforms with it all on the line. We can agree to disagree though. I'm taking the better all around player that I know can take over when it's needed most and do it in a GOAT fashion.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 01:47 PM
I just find that hard to believe when Curry underperforms with it all on the line. We can agree to disagree though. I'm taking the better all around player that I know can take over when it's needed most and do it in a GOAT fashion.

Curry vs Thunder: 28/6/6

Curry vs Blazers, he was injured and only played two games but averaged: 38/7/10

Curry vs Rockets: he was injured. Played two games but numbers don't do him justice as he barely played when he was out there.

It was a terrible NBA Finals for him but let's not act like seven games determines how great of a peak a player has. How many players even make it to the NBA Finals? Are we going to ignore that Curry was easily the MVP of the season and had the greatest offensive season ever?

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 01:51 PM
Curry vs Thunder: 28/6/6

Curry vs Blazers, he was injured and only played two games but averaged: 38/7/10

Curry vs Rockets: he was injured. Played two games but numbers don't do him justice as he barely played when he was out there.

It was a terrible NBA Finals for him but let's not act like seven games determines how great of a peak a player has. How many players even make it to the NBA Finals? Are we going to ignore that Curry was easily the MVP of the season and had the greatest offensive season ever?

Curry definitely had a great year but he tacked it off with an epic choke in the finals. Like I said, I'm taking the better all around player, much better 2 way player, and guy I know will step up in the biggest moments and not throw behind the back passes out of bounds to Bob and Debbie sitting courtside in the biggest moments of game 7.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 02:16 PM
The last 2 years with the big 3 he wasn't in his prime so I'm not sure why that's brought up.
To show that Wade hasn't really been this spectacular postseason player since 2006. But let's throw out those years and just focus on his prime if you want. Like if we took those 5-6 years of his prime and we only looked at his postseason performance without 2006, his playoff resume would be extremely weak. He had one spectacular year and a whole lot of "meh" following it. And that's the point I'm making.


You asked me about the years following 06 so I told you, he was injure half the time and had **** surrounding him the other half.
And injuries are part of the game. If you're hurt a lot in your prime, that should factor into this conversation.


Take your regular season guy, I'll take the guy who's a much better all around player and will step up on the biggest stage at a GOAT level.
He "stepped up on the biggest stage at a GOAT level" once really in his prime. That's a pretty small sample size. And while a lot of star athletes don't have that one signature postseason moment like Wade has, I also think it's a little ridiculous to give him a massive edge in this department when Curry just came off a really great postseason himself.

If we were to compare their numbers in the playoffs for their peak seasons, I honestly don't think they would be that different.

Chronz
02-02-2018, 03:40 PM
None of those years make up for the amazing 2015-16 regular season dominance of Curry.

Definitely a better regular season player but isn't this about peak?

Shammyguy3
02-02-2018, 03:42 PM
Curry definitely had a great year but he tacked it off with an epic choke in the finals. Like I said, I'm taking the better all around player, much better 2 way player, and guy I know will step up in the biggest moments and not throw behind the back passes out of bounds to Bob and Debbie sitting courtside in the biggest moments of game 7.

Epic choke? The guy still averaged 23/4/5 with a 58.0ts% in only 35 minutes. That's pretty damn good still, before taking into account he was still hobbling from his injury. If he played 43.5 minutes per game like Wade did in his Finals, Curry would have averaged 28.5/5/6.

For comps, if Wade only played 35 minutes per game in the 06 Finals he would have averaged 28/6/3 on a 57.2ts%

Wade was a healthy monster. Curry was a hobbled very good player. I wouldn't call that an "epic choke job" like you call it.

Chronz
02-02-2018, 03:42 PM
To show that Wade hasn't really been this spectacular postseason player since 2006. But let's throw out those years and just focus on his prime if you want. Like if we took those 5-6 years of his prime and we only looked at his postseason performance without 2006, his playoff resume would be extremely weak. He had one spectacular year and a whole lot of "meh" following it. And that's the point I'm making.


And injuries are part of the game. If you're hurt a lot in your prime, that should factor into this conversation.


He "stepped up on the biggest stage at a GOAT level" once really in his prime. That's a pretty small sample size. And while a lot of star athletes don't have that one signature postseason moment like Wade has, I also think it's a little ridiculous to give him a massive edge in this department when Curry just came off a really great postseason himself.

If we were to compare their numbers in the playoffs for their peak seasons, I honestly don't think they would be that different.

What's ridiculous about it given the peak discussion. Sounds like you're trying to mix seasons despite currys consistent post season shortcomings

Chronz
02-02-2018, 03:44 PM
Curry definitely had a great year but he tacked it off with an epic choke in the finals. Like I said, I'm taking the better all around player, much better 2 way player, and guy I know will step up in the biggest moments and not throw behind the back passes out of bounds to Bob and Debbie sitting courtside in the biggest moments of game 7.
Tmac did better than wade in his first round losses

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 03:57 PM
Tmac did better than wade in his first round losses

T-Mac sucked three games in a row in 02-03 vs Pistons. Not sure how he's in consideration past Curry.

mightybosstone
02-02-2018, 07:19 PM
What's ridiculous about it given the peak discussion. Sounds like you're trying to mix seasons despite currys consistent post season shortcomings

He's got shortcomings, but Wade's prime postseason years outside of 2006 aren't exactly stellar. That's my point. If you look at each guy's best 4-5 seasons in the league and their performances in those postseasons, neither guy consistently dominated every postseason. They each had one standout postseason and then several years where they didn't really meet their expectations.

Again, I'd still give Wade an edge in this department. But his edge in the playoffs doesn't make up for Curry's edge in the regular season.

Shammyguy3
02-02-2018, 07:29 PM
He's got shortcomings, but Wade's prime postseason years outside of 2006 aren't exactly stellar. That's my point. If you look at each guy's best 4-5 seasons in the league and their performances in those postseasons, neither guy consistently dominated every postseason. They each had one standout postseason and then several years where they didn't really meet their expectations.

Again, I'd still give Wade an edge in this department. But his edge in the playoffs doesn't make up for Curry's edge in the regular season.

I agree with this

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 08:29 PM
So if you were an NBA player would you rather do what Wade did in 05-06 of what Curry did in 2015-16? I'm talking full picture, regular season, postseason or whatever.

Looking back at it it's crazy that was Wades 3rd year in the league. Man if it wasn't for injuries **** was about to get real. He'd be top 10 ever. And I'm not using that as part of the argument, yea I know injuries happen but I'm just reminded every time I go back and look at things.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 09:07 PM
So if you were an NBA player would you rather do what Wade did in 05-06 of what Curry did in 2015-16? I'm talking full picture, regular season, postseason or whatever.

Looking back at it it's crazy that was Wades 3rd year in the league. Man if it wasn't for injuries **** was about to get real. He'd be top 10 ever. And I'm not using that as part of the argument, yea I know injuries happen but I'm just reminded every time I go back and look at things.

Easily Curry's 15-16... Not a knock on Wade but not even MJ put up an offensive season that Curry did for the regular season. That much has to be acknowledged. When the guy is winning unanimous MVP (Deservingly so) over guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Harden, you just have to realize how great of a season it was. That was a 73-9 season. I'm not even sure if you want to but if you want to check, there was a stretch where Curry literally shot 52% from three averaging 33 points per game for over 25 games... this guy was straight killing it. Even the worst haters have to admit Curry was unbelievable that season. That Finals was seven games only. Shouldn't take away from the massive regular season dominance he has over Wade. Now, if you're giving me 08-09 Wade and a 05-06 playoffs Wade, it would be a closer call but I don't think it's even debatable with 05-06 Wade.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 09:18 PM
Easily Curry's 15-16... Not a knock on Wade but not even MJ put up an offensive season that Curry did for the regular season. That much has to be acknowledged. When the guy is winning unanimous MVP (Deservingly so) over guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Harden, you just have to realize how great of a season it was. That was a 73-9 season. I'm not even sure if you want to but if you want to check, there was a stretch where Curry literally shot 52% from three averaging 33 points per game for over 25 games... this guy was straight killing it. Even the worst haters have to admit Curry was unbelievable that season. That Finals was seven games only. Shouldn't take away from the massive regular season dominance he has over Wade. Now, if you're giving me 08-09 Wade and a 05-06 playoffs Wade, it would be a closer call but I don't think it's even debatable with 05-06 Wade.

If you combine 08-09 Wade with postseason 05-06 Wade that's a GOAT season for sure.

As for 05-06 Wade he was still at the top of the league. 27-6-7-2-1 is some LeBron numbers. Then you factor in the championship and finals MVP and I feel that's the icing on top. No MVP award but people weee saying he's the best in the world after that finals so he was getting the recognition he deserved. I guess I can see where you're coming from Curry was great that season but I value winning over anything else when you're debating players this elite. Had Curry won it all that year and won finals MVP in impressive fashion then you go Curry because of the better regular season PLUS winning it all and being finals MVP.

I feel like if you asked some guys that won MVP and no ring if they would trade their MVP for a ring and finals MVP In That same season majority would take the ring and finals MVP without hesitation. I think the only guys that wouldn't would be a me-first type of guy like Iverson but I'm even on the fence about him.

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 09:51 PM
If you combine 08-09 Wade with postseason 05-06 Wade that's a GOAT season for sure.

As for 05-06 Wade he was still at the top of the league. 27-6-7-2-1 is some LeBron numbers. Then you factor in the championship and finals MVP and I feel that's the icing on top. No MVP award but people weee saying he's the best in the world after that finals so he was getting the recognition he deserved. I guess I can see where you're coming from Curry was great that season but I value winning over anything else when you're debating players this elite. Had Curry won it all that year and won finals MVP in impressive fashion then you go Curry because of the better regular season PLUS winning it all and being finals MVP.

I feel like if you asked some guys that won MVP and no ring if they would trade their MVP for a ring and finals MVP In That same season majority would take the ring and finals MVP without hesitation. I think the only guys that wouldn't would be a me-first type of guy like Iverson but I'm even on the fence about him.

Yet, Wade wasn't even top five in MVP voting in 05-06. They clearly didn't see some groundbreaking performance from Wade the way Curry had in 15-16. If you value winning as well, then Curry would be far down the list because Dirk in 2011 would have a strong argument as well. I get your point because I also value winning and it's why I honestly can't put Harden as a top five player in some cases even after he puts out amazing performances. Like when he sucked vs the Spurs, I was just disappointed and dropped him to like the 8-10th spot. But at some point, you just have to acknowledge that the regular season is 82 games and that outweights a few bad games every time if we're evaluating a player.

Chronz
02-02-2018, 10:16 PM
So if you were an NBA player would you rather do what Wade did in 05-06 of what Curry did in 2015-16? I'm talking full picture, regular season, postseason or whatever.

Looking back at it it's crazy that was Wades 3rd year in the league. Man if it wasn't for injuries **** was about to get real. He'd be top 10 ever. And I'm not using that as part of the argument, yea I know injuries happen but I'm just reminded every time I go back and look at things.

I'd rather have an epic finals and be a better 2 way guy

Chronz
02-02-2018, 10:18 PM
He's got shortcomings, but Wade's prime postseason years outside of 2006 aren't exactly stellar. That's my point. If you look at each guy's best 4-5 seasons in the league and their performances in those postseasons, neither guy consistently dominated every postseason. They each had one standout postseason and then several years where they didn't really meet their expectations.

Again, I'd still give Wade an edge in this department. But his edge in the playoffs doesn't make up for Curry's edge in the regular season.
Yes they are. Super stellar and again is it peak or peak run. This argument is akin to saying Walton didn't have much of a peak outside his peak years, like no ****. Hence why wade is better than Curry here when it is a debate in terms of career. Wade would destroy this era far more than his own

Chronz
02-02-2018, 10:20 PM
T-Mac sucked three games in a row in 02-03 vs Pistons. Not sure how he's in consideration past Curry.

Cuz curry sucked the whole series by comparison in his first round loss and didn't impress in victory, especially given that his struggles were a result of a more physical environment that tmac suffered through his entire peak run. I like how you say 3 games as if I'm suppose to ignore the fact that an 8th seed went 7 games lmfao. It was a hard af defensive era, you're gonna have to be more than a vague protestor or agree to disagree, just choose one ffs

Chronz
02-02-2018, 10:21 PM
Tmac did better than wade in his first round losses

Agreed Terrence

FlashBolt
02-02-2018, 10:44 PM
Cuz curry sucked the whole series by comparison in his first round loss and didn't impress in victory, especially given that his struggles were a result of a more physical environment that tmac suffered through his entire peak run. I like how you say 3 games as if I'm suppose to ignore the fact that an 8th seed went 7 games lmfao. It was a hard af defensive era, you're gonna have to be more than a vague protestor or agree to disagree, just choose one ffs
Uhhh, it was only eight games apart. East was insanely competitive in those years because there wasn't a clear stacked team. He sucked for three straight games, were ahead 2-1, and was an NBA superstar. If LeBron had those type of performances, he'd get killed. And which season of Curry are we talking about? Pretty sure he hasn't lost a first round in his peak regular season or am I reading it wrong.

WaDe03
02-02-2018, 11:06 PM
Yet, Wade wasn't even top five in MVP voting in 05-06. They clearly didn't see some groundbreaking performance from Wade the way Curry had in 15-16. If you value winning as well, then Curry would be far down the list because Dirk in 2011 would have a strong argument as well. I get your point because I also value winning and it's why I honestly can't put Harden as a top five player in some cases even after he puts out amazing performances. Like when he sucked vs the Spurs, I was just disappointed and dropped him to like the 8-10th spot. But at some point, you just have to acknowledge that the regular season is 82 games and that outweights a few bad games every time if we're evaluating a player.

which is crazy because the only 2 guys in the league that arguably had a better year statistically were LeBron and Kobe, but Wade showed the world who the real MVP was. He just wasn't a big name yet, always under appreciated.

look! big kids
02-02-2018, 11:53 PM
Edit; double-post

WaDe03
02-03-2018, 12:08 AM
Also for that last game against Detroit he was injured. Got injured game 5 I believe, sat out game 6 then played game 7 but wasn't himself. Injury to the ribs which basically ****ed all his movement.

look! big kids
02-03-2018, 12:10 AM
He's got shortcomings, but Wade's prime postseason years outside of 2006 aren't exactly stellar. That's my point. If you look at each guy's best 4-5 seasons in the league and their performances in those postseasons, neither guy consistently dominated every postseason. They each had one standout postseason and then several years where they didn't really meet their expectations.

Again, I'd still give Wade an edge in this department. But his edge in the playoffs doesn't make up for Curry's edge in the regular season.

I'm somebody who doesn't have a horse in this race, but I can't help but feel like the "but Wade had first round exits!" perspective is just another weird ascription of team capacity & performance to individuals.

Weird because we recognize the limitations of this way of thinking in some cases (i.e. Kobe's ringz) and seem to straight up overlook the massive team-dependency of basketball in other cases, usually where a narrative has been pre-established, like Chris Paul's postseason deficiencies. I mean, if your teammates don't make shots more games than not in a series, that's a first round exit.

I wanted to address that generally and to a lesser extent your own comment––

Wade had some pretty strong postseasons other than 2006––not all-time worthy by any means, but also not postseasons where he "didn't really meet expectations." Here are his playoff games his sophomore year:



Opp MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS GmSc +/-
NJN W (+18) 40:00 12 18 0 0 8 9 5 8 0 1 2 32 30.0 +11
NJN W (+17) 40:00 6 17 0 1 5 6 6 10 2 2 6 17 13.3 +17
NJN W (+3) 50:00 6 19 0 0 10 12 10 8 4 1 9 22 13.8 +5
NJN W (+13) 40:00 13 20 1 1 7 9 4 9 1 0 3 34 28.7 +14
WAS W (+19) 39:00 7 18 0 1 6 8 5 7 0 1 4 20 12.5 +13
WAS W (+6) 40:00 10 15 0 2 11 19 7 15 3 2 7 31 30.9 +7
WAS W (+7) 44:00 14 27 0 1 3 4 9 6 0 2 8 31 17.6 +8
WAS W (+4) 42:00 13 22 0 0 16 17 7 4 2 1 6 42 32.2 +1
DET L (-9) 43:00 7 25 0 1 2 2 6 4 2 3 2 16 7.2 -14
DET W (+6) 43:00 15 28 0 0 10 10 8 6 1 2 4 40 31.8 +9
DET W (+9) 38:00 12 21 0 0 12 18 7 2 0 1 2 36 24.7 -1
DET L (-10) 42:00 10 22 0 2 8 10 2 6 1 0 3 28 17.0 -6
DET W (+12) 27:00 4 9 0 0 7 8 3 4 5 0 1 15 17.2 +24
DET L (-6) 43:00 7 20 0 1 6 7 1 4 1 0 5 20 5.9 -4



That's pretty elite stuff in a low scoring, defense heavy era, for a 23 year old no less. He eventually flamed out after pushing the generational-defense Pistons to 7 games, but he also dropped 76 points on them in two games earlier. Here's his playoffs in 2010:



G Date Opp MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS GmSc
1 2010-04-17 BOS L (-9) 40:22 11 18 0 4 4 6 8 6 3 2 7 26 20.6
2 2010-04-20 BOS L (-29) 37:09 11 18 5 8 2 7 2 5 0 2 1 29 22.5
3 2010-04-23 BOS L (-2) 43:15 14 26 3 11 3 3 5 8 2 2 5 34 26.1
4 2010-04-25 BOS W (+9) 43:25 16 24 5 7 9 14 5 5 2 0 6 46 33.0
5 2010-04-27 BOS L (-10) 45:38 10 24 2 7 9 10 8 10 1 2 7 31 22.2


I'm not sure what you'd call those performances if not stellar against the Celts. The "sample size" available for Wade to be stellar in was simply cut short by team talent discrepancy. Both of those playoffs coincidentally end against recent Champions who would go on to lose to the Lakers in 7 in the Finals.

Overall in 53 playoff games from 2005-10 Wade posted averages of 28.3/5.6/6.1/1.7/1.2 with .578 TS%, .196 WS/48 and 25.5 PER (maintained by 5-7 players in history throughout their playoff careers).

Of course, this was without nearly as much help as Steph or Kobe, and before the sort of anomalous, working-it-out-on-the-fly 2011 playoffs where he nevertheless outperformed one of the two or three best players ever in Lebron, smack dab in the middle of his own peak, as good as any ever.
I don't know that he didn't play up to par outside of 2006 at all. But I do notice that players' peaks eerily coincide with the talent-level of their teammates.

Edit; double-post

look! big kids
02-03-2018, 12:15 AM
Similar reason I can't hold lack of playoffs "success" against McGrady and Chris Paul in their peaks/primes. And I think the peaks of those three are comparable. To a lesser extent KG, too, just with the load they had to carry and are judged by.

tredigs
02-03-2018, 01:03 AM
Curry's peak realistically is > than Magic's at 6th, but I get it, respect to the elders. We'll toss him in here at 11th for now. Lol at Kobe at 10 btw.

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 01:19 AM
Lol@ little *** Curry trying to guard anyone. Hilarious enjoy the total 15 votes in the thread. #Lakers4Life

LOL @ 1v1 Kobe vs Curry.

-Mamba out

FlashBolt
02-03-2018, 01:43 AM
Curry's peak realistically is > than Magic's at 6th, but I get it, respect to the elders. We'll toss him in here at 11th for now. Lol at Kobe at 10 btw.

i am not even going to bother voting if Kobe is 10th. if that can happen, then there is no ranking past this that is legitimate.

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 01:56 AM
i am not even going to bother voting if Kobe is 10th. if that can happen, then there is no ranking past this that is legitimate.

I wouldn't either

WaDe03
02-03-2018, 08:46 AM
Flashbolt I just remembered how we were talking after the 2015-16 finals about how peak Wade would eat curry alive, not sure why your stance changed.

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 11:28 AM
Flashbolt I just remembered how we were talking after the 2015-16 finals about how peak Wade would eat curry alive, not sure why your stance changed.

Anything to fit in.

KnicksorBust
02-03-2018, 01:04 PM
So if you were an NBA player would you rather do what Wade did in 05-06 of what Curry did in 2015-16? I'm talking full picture, regular season, postseason or whatever.

.

I would rather do what Wade did in the Finals but thats not the point or the question. Which PLAYER was better not which season. I am surprised Curry is getting slandered here considering we all just watched this season. For an entire season he was basically a guaranteed 30 points on 20 shots in 3 quarters and then you could put the bench in because the game was over.

Whats the vote?

FlashBolt
02-03-2018, 06:27 PM
Flashbolt I just remembered how we were talking after the 2015-16 finals about how peak Wade would eat curry alive, not sure why your stance changed.

What does that have to do with who had the better season? They're two different players...

KnicksorBust
02-03-2018, 07:32 PM
Flashbolt I just remembered how we were talking after the 2015-16 finals about how peak Wade would eat curry alive, not sure why your stance changed.

What does that have to do with who had the better season? They're two different players...

This thread isn't about who had the best season...

More-Than-Most
02-03-2018, 07:36 PM
lol... curry and wade are about to go ahead of KD

More-Than-Most
02-03-2018, 07:37 PM
Anything to fit in.

:nod:

LeonFSU
02-03-2018, 07:43 PM
This list went off the rails with LeBron going number 2 in a list that’s not supposed to be about career achievements.

jason
02-03-2018, 08:01 PM
Easily Curry's 15-16... Not a knock on Wade but not even MJ put up an offensive season that Curry did for the regular season. That much has to be acknowledged. When the guy is winning unanimous MVP (Deservingly so) over guys like LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Harden, you just have to realize how great of a season it was. That was a 73-9 season. I'm not even sure if you want to but if you want to check, there was a stretch where Curry literally shot 52% from three averaging 33 points per game for over 25 games... this guy was straight killing it. Even the worst haters have to admit Curry was unbelievable that season. That Finals was seven games only. Shouldn't take away from the massive regular season dominance he has over Wade. Now, if you're giving me 08-09 Wade and a 05-06 playoffs Wade, it would be a closer call but I don't think it's even debatable with 05-06 Wade.Great post and this

Shammyguy3
02-03-2018, 08:02 PM
This list went off the rails with LeBron going number 2 in a list that’s not supposed to be about career achievements.

Are you saying Lebron's prime isn't worthy of #2?

jason
02-03-2018, 08:04 PM
Lol@ little *** Curry trying to guard anyone. Hilarious enjoy the total 15 votes in the thread. #Lakers4Life

LOL @ 1v1 Kobe vs Curry.

-Mamba outLol at this post and Kobe

LeonFSU
02-03-2018, 08:10 PM
Are you saying Lebron's prime isn't worthy of #2?

I don’t think his peak is better than Shaq’s or Wilt’s.

FlashBolt
02-03-2018, 08:11 PM
This thread isn't about who had the best season...

According to the OP, it's who had the better peak and prime. He can't say Wade had the better 08-09 regular season and then try to use his 05-06 finals performance when Wade's peak wasn't in 2005-2006 but 2008-2009.

KnicksorBust
02-03-2018, 09:20 PM
This thread isn't about who had the best season...

According to the OP, it's who had the better peak and prime. He can't say Wade had the better 08-09 regular season and then try to use his 05-06 finals performance when Wade's peak wasn't in 2005-2006 but 2008-2009.

Why not? He is saying that Wade proved in 05-06 that he could dominate the NBA Finals and in 08-09 he took his overall game to its highest levels. There seems to be this obsession that a players peak has to be in a season where he won finals mvp or something. I am not hung up on that at all. I totally buy 08-09 as Wades best year. Just like I believe this season's current version of Kevin Durant is his absolute best. In a few months he could have 2 bad games in a 4 game sweep of the Celtics in the Finals and that wouldn't change my mind.

jason
02-03-2018, 09:56 PM
Why not? He is saying that Wade proved in 05-06 that he could dominate the NBA Finals and in 08-09 he took his overall game to its highest levels. There seems to be this obsession that a players peak has to be in a season where he won finals mvp or something. I am not hung up on that at all. I totally buy 08-09 as Wades best year. Just like I believe this season's current version of Kevin Durant is his absolute best. In a few months he could have 2 bad games in a 4 game sweep of the Celtics in the Finals and that wouldn't change my mind.Wade03 the one arguing that Wade is better just because Curry didn't win a ring the same year he an all time great season

Shammyguy3
02-03-2018, 09:57 PM
I don’t think his peak is better than Shaq’s or Wilt’s.

Gotcha

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 10:10 PM
Lol at this post and Kobe

Lol @ Raiders moving to Vegas! Time to join the 9ers! :laugh2:

jason
02-03-2018, 10:20 PM
Lol @ Raiders moving to Vegas! Time to join the 9ers! :laugh2:Have fun! :laugh2:

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 10:37 PM
:sigh: how sad, You're really switching.... yikes.

Chronz
02-03-2018, 11:00 PM
Cavs gon cave and drop that pick

jason
02-04-2018, 01:41 AM
:sigh: how sad, You're really switching.... yikes.You're the one switching lol.. Youre embarrassing

GREATNESS ONE
02-04-2018, 10:28 AM
You're the one switching lol.. Youre embarrassing

Wtf? Lolz :facepalm: only one Nation. Enjoy the 9ers Bay Areaaaaa. :laugh2:

WaDe03
02-04-2018, 12:24 PM
This thread isn't about who had the best season...

This, its about who the better peak player is lol.

mrblisterdundee
02-04-2018, 01:28 PM
McGrady

Seriously; how is he not even on the list of choices by now? I put 2002-03 Orlando McGrady in dead heat with 2008-09 Miami Wade. Both are after 2015-16 Golden State Curry.

jason
02-04-2018, 02:18 PM
Wtf? Lolz :facepalm: only one Nation. Enjoy the 9ers Bay Areaaaaa. :laugh2:You make no sense at all. Wtf is wrong with you lol

Lol @ Raiders moving to Vegas! Time to join the 9ers! :laugh2:
How long have you have been a 49ers fan now? Smh

GREATNESS ONE
02-04-2018, 03:30 PM
I was teasing you because Raiders are moving from the Bay..... I've been a Raiders fan since the 80's LA... I stay loyal to my team and always will... Heck, I am moving to Vegas next year to follow the Raiders and to open a restaurant. I'm gon just let it go because nothing good can come from this conversation. Have a good day.

jason
02-04-2018, 04:53 PM
I was teasing you because Raiders are moving from the Bay..... I've been a Raiders fan since the 80's LA... I stay loyal to my team and always will... Heck, I am moving to Vegas next year to follow the Raiders and to open a restaurant. I'm gon just let it go because nothing good can come from this conversation. Have a good day.

I don't know what that has to do with anything. Ive always been a Raiders fan and I'm not even from the bay but still traveled couple hours to go to games. I can't stand 49ers fans and their team lol. I'll stop since this the NBA forum

KnicksorBust
02-05-2018, 12:17 PM
I don't know when the next poll is up but Moses Malone has to beat Dwyane Wade. I'm making sure to get a head start on that right now. 1982-1983 Moses Malone was basically a 30-15-2 guy who won league MVP and outplayed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to win Finals MVP and sweep the Magic Johnson Lakers 4-0. I love Larry Bird and he deserves to be ranked higher than Moses but even he never did that to LA.

FlashBolt
02-05-2018, 05:34 PM
Why not? He is saying that Wade proved in 05-06 that he could dominate the NBA Finals and in 08-09 he took his overall game to its highest levels. There seems to be this obsession that a players peak has to be in a season where he won finals mvp or something. I am not hung up on that at all. I totally buy 08-09 as Wades best year. Just like I believe this season's current version of Kevin Durant is his absolute best. In a few months he could have 2 bad games in a 4 game sweep of the Celtics in the Finals and that wouldn't change my mind.

You said 08-09 Wade is the best. Okay, so that's his peak, no?