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View Full Version : How did this team go 57-25 in 2013?



KnicksorBust
01-30-2018, 03:12 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2013.html

Ty Lawson
Andre Iguodala
Danilo Gallinari
Kenneth Faried
Kosta Koufos

KnicksorBust
01-30-2018, 03:12 PM
It's amazing to think how quickly most those players have flamed out.

mightybosstone
01-30-2018, 03:22 PM
It's easy to look back on how many of those guys aren't really relevant anymore, but that team had a ton of NBA talent on it. Lawson had a few seasons there where it wasn't ridiculous to call him a top 10 PG in the league, Gallo was still an up-and-coming young international scorer and Iggy was still in his "I fill up the stat sheet every single night and there's nothing you can do to stop me" phase.

That squad also had an ancient but solid Andre Miller, young Wilson Chandler, young Faried and Corey Brewer before he sucked. Further down the roster, that squad also had Mozgov, McGee and a baby Evan Fournier, which is interesting. If you went the roster and asked "How many of these guys were or would become decent NBA rotational players?" that team had at least 11-12 solid guys throughout that season.

I actually really enjoyed watching those George Karl Nuggets teams after Melo left. They never had a true No. 1 and they couldn't stop anybody, but they could score in bunches and beat any team on any given night.

LOb0
01-30-2018, 03:26 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2013.html

Ty Lawson
Andre Iguodala
Danilo Gallinari
Kenneth Faried
Kosta Koufos

Almost 60 wins is a bit absurd in retrospect. But that is a really good team with all those guys in their prime. TY was pretty damn good at one point.

I remember that team a bit more. I remember they played so fast that they could have beat the Thunder before Gallo went out. It killed the team when he got hurt.

LaVar Ball
01-30-2018, 03:26 PM
Well Iggy is the consummate professional and a true balla. He's proven that as a finals mvp and finals closer as the 6th man in Golden State.

Faried was a beast when he first entered the league and played under Karl. Ty Lawson's early Nuggets days were great before all the legal issues.

FlashBolt
01-30-2018, 03:34 PM
The starting lineup wasn't super amazing but they were stacked with talent on the bench. Very good team but in the playoffs, they'll be exposed.

TrueFan420
01-30-2018, 04:15 PM
The starting lineup wasn't super amazing but they were stacked with talent on the bench. Very good team but in the playoffs, they'll be exposed.

This... there was next to no drop from starters to bench but in the crunch didn't have a player to take over and carry them when it mattered in the playoffs.

Toxeryll
01-30-2018, 05:02 PM
The starting lineup wasn't super amazing but they were stacked with talent on the bench. Very good team but in the playoffs, they'll be exposed.

Masai Ujiri's M.O.

Chronz
01-30-2018, 05:42 PM
People **** on George Karl but cancer basically killed his teams, without him working the refs, they lost that edge.

Depth matters more in the regular season and I always thought them losing Gallo mattered more to them than the loss of a 1 way player like David Lee, especially with Barnes as a replacement.

Basically, the dubs struck gold with injuries happening at the right time

Chronz
01-30-2018, 05:45 PM
This... there was next to no drop from starters to bench but in the crunch didn't have a player to take over and carry them when it mattered in the playoffs.

What was their winning% in close games?

Chronz
01-30-2018, 05:46 PM
The starting lineup wasn't super amazing but they were stacked with talent on the bench. Very good team but in the playoffs, they'll be exposed.
Where did the starting unit rank?

FlashBolt
01-30-2018, 08:19 PM
Where did the starting unit rank?

don't really remember that season but they were definitely above average. Their bench could start and vice-versa. Just a deep team with good players.

KnicksorBust
01-30-2018, 08:32 PM
I challenge anyone to find a worse roster that won more games since 2000.

tp13baby
01-30-2018, 08:39 PM
George Karl did a solid job with that team and if GAllo doesn’t get injured I think we beat Golden State and Iggy being a mole. Gallo was becoming the man in Denver and scoring about 20 ppg until he went down with a season ending injury.

There were no pre madonnas, everyone knew their role and any given night we could have 8 players in double figures. Everyone outside of Andre Miller was in their prime.

That team played to their strengths, they were scary long and bought into Karl’s team system.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-30-2018, 08:39 PM
This was almost 5 years ago, a lot of these guys were playing the best basketball of their careers and excelling under George Karl. OP, does this have a Melo trade undertone to it?

KnicksorBust
01-30-2018, 09:07 PM
This was almost 5 years ago, a lot of these guys were playing the best basketball of their careers and excelling under George Karl. OP, does this have a Melo trade undertone to it?

I have no interest to bring Melo talk into this thread but I would be lying if I said he was irrelevant in its creation. :laugh:

In the Melo 25K thread a poster said how the Nuggets didn't skip a beat when he got traded and that didnt ring true to me so I double checked. I saw they didnt get out of the 1st round but will have to admit I was surprised and impressed they won 57 games. Thats a lot of ****ing games. I did not remember them doing that well in the regular season so sparked the idea to create the thread.

Lawson was good at the time and Iggy too but Koufos-Faried front court? 57 wins?

Vee-Rex
01-30-2018, 09:13 PM
I challenge anyone to find a worse roster that won more games since 2000.

The 60 win Cavs teams in 09 and 2010 were pretty bad, but I suppose just having a prime LeBron makes up for it. So, I fail your challenge. :laugh2:

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-30-2018, 09:23 PM
I challenge anyone to find a worse roster that won more games since 2000.

if a team in the east did it between 2000-06 i would say them

HandsOnTheWheel
01-30-2018, 09:37 PM
I have no interest to bring Melo talk into this thread but I would be lying if I said he was irrelevant in its creation. :laugh:

In the Melo 25K thread a poster said how the Nuggets didn't skip a beat when he got traded and that didnt ring true to me so I double checked. I saw they didnt get out of the 1st round but will have to admit I was surprised and impressed they won 57 games. Thats a lot of ****ing games. I did not remember them doing that well in the regular season so sparked the idea to create the thread.

Lawson was good at the time and Iggy too but Koufos-Faried front court? 57 wins?

Makes you wonder how good that Knicks team could have been if they held the core w/ MVP caliber Amare, Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, Etc..

PowerHouse
01-30-2018, 09:54 PM
I challenge anyone to find a worse roster that won more games since 2000.

2011 Bulls

mrblisterdundee
01-31-2018, 02:42 AM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2013.html

Ty Lawson
Andre Iguodala
Danilo Gallinari
Kenneth Faried
Kosta Koufos

They were fast and attacked the basket. Iguodala is one of the best defensive captains ever.

FlashBolt
01-31-2018, 03:58 AM
Reminds me of Hawks 2014. Won a lot of games cause they were well rounded and had lots of talent but in the playoffs, you just knew they were going to get bounced off. These teams win games because they have the personnel but when the time is ticking and you need the X player to take your team to the next level, you will lose.

Rivera
01-31-2018, 12:43 PM
heres a few bad ones in retrospect

2002-2003 Wolves, 51 wins

Troy Hudson
Anthony Peeler
Wally Szczerbiak
KG
Rasho Nesterovic

Seattle Sonics 04-05 52 wins

Luke Ridnour
Ray
Rashard
Reggie Evans
Jerome Baby Shaq James

07-08 Magic 52 wins

Jameer Nelson
Mo Evans/Keith Bogans
Hedo
Rashard Lewis
Dwight Howard

Hawkeye15
01-31-2018, 05:41 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2013.html

Ty Lawson
Andre Iguodala
Danilo Gallinari
Kenneth Faried
Kosta Koufos

you left out their amazing bench.

Andre Miller
Corey Brewer
Wilson Chandler
JaVale McGee
Evan Fournier

they had a ton of players who weren't all star level, but acceptable NBA players galore. They just overwhelmed teams with running the ball, keeping fresh legs in the game, and had a lot of players in their peaks all at the same time. In the regular season, depth matters quite a bit, and they had depth galore. George Karl was also respected that year by his team (you never know what you are going to get with Karl, he tends to burn bridges at some point), and when players buy into Karl, his teams perform.

They were the team everyone knew had zero prayer come playoffs, but still churned out wins all regular season.

BKLYNpigeon
01-31-2018, 06:38 PM
They played Fast and took advantage of the High Altitude in Denver.

They were a fun team until the Warriors Eliminated / Dismantled them in the playoffs.

BKLYNpigeon
01-31-2018, 06:39 PM
heres a few bad ones in retrospect

2002-2003 Wolves, 51 wins

Troy Hudson
Anthony Peeler
Wally Szczerbiak
KG
Rasho Nesterovic

Seattle Sonics 04-05 52 wins

Luke Ridnour
Ray
Rashard
Reggie Evans
Jerome Baby Shaq James

07-08 Magic 52 wins

Jameer Nelson
Mo Evans/Keith Bogans
Hedo
Rashard Lewis
Dwight Howard

I remember the 2008 Warriors had 49 wins that year and missed the playoffs.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-31-2018, 07:08 PM
Makes you wonder how good that Knicks team could have been if they held the core w/ MVP caliber Amare, Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, Etc..

That team overacheived. Clearly.

Mozgov is a career 7 and 8 guy... isn't even in the league anymore.
Wilson Chandler played in less then half of the games for the next four years (after the trade)
Gallinari a 15 and 5 guy who was suopposed to be a starr barley playing in half the games...
Amare also proved he couldn't lead a team by himself.
Landry feilds isn't even in the league anymore.

Don't think they woulda been all that. fun to watch. but a mid 40 win team.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2018, 10:24 PM
heres a few bad ones in retrospect

2002-2003 Wolves, 51 wins

Troy Hudson
Anthony Peeler
Wally Szczerbiak
KG
Rasho Nesterovic

Seattle Sonics 04-05 52 wins

Luke Ridnour
Ray
Rashard
Reggie Evans
Jerome Baby Shaq James

07-08 Magic 52 wins

Jameer Nelson
Mo Evans/Keith Bogans
Hedo
Rashard Lewis
Dwight Howard

Why you coming at Shard like he stole your girl?

Shammyguy3
01-31-2018, 10:32 PM
2011 Bulls
I know you only answered a question, but I don't see it. That Bulls team was 2nd in the league in SRS, 1st in DRtg, and 11th in DRtg and won 62 games. In comparison, the 2013 Nuggets were 5th in SRS, 5th in ORtg, 11th in DRtg.

The 2011 Bulls had the following as the top-5 players that year
Derrick Rose - 6.0 VORP, 5.9 BPM, .208 WS/48, 23.5 PER
Luol Deng - 3.4 VORP, 2.2 BPM, .149 WS/48, 15.5 PER
Joakim Noah - 2.8 VORP, 4.9 BPM, .205 WS/48, 18.8 PER
Carlos Boozer - 1.3 VORP, 0.7 BPM, .149 WS/48, 18.8 PER
Ronnie Brewer - 1.7 VORP, 1.8 BPM, 0.147 WS/48, 17.2 PER

The 2013 Nuggets had the following as their top-5 players that year
Andre Iguodala - 3.7 VORP, 3.2 BPM, .097 WS/48, 15.2 PER
Ty Lawson - 2.2 VORP, 1.4 BPM, 0.141 WS/48, 17.9 PER
Danilo Gallinari - 2.5 VORP, 2.3 BPM, 0.151 WS/48, 16.7 PER
Kenneth Faried - 2.4 VORP, 2.2 BPM, 0.167 WS/48, 18.5 PER
Kosta Koufos - 1.6 VORP, 1.5 BPM, 0.171 WS/48, 17.2 PER


The Bulls and Nuggets were probably the 2 deepest teams in the league that season, and the results show it. However, the Bulls had by far the most impactful player in Derrick Rose. Give me the '11 Bulls over the '13 Nuggets.

JasonJohnHorn
02-01-2018, 09:38 PM
As noted by others, Karl deserves a lot of credit. Say what you will about him, and he has flaws, but he was generally able to put players into a system that allowed them to shine and maximized their potential.


The GM did a great job too.

You also had guys like Iggy taking on an important leadership role to encourage guys to play the right way. It reminded me of when Sam Cassell got to the Clippers. He was used to winning, and he did what winners did in practice and in the game. He didn't dominate in the game, but he led by example, which is something a lot of teams are missing, and is a kind of leadership that is undervalued by a lot of people.

The West was going through a bit of a transition then too.. Lakers were starter to suck, the Warriors weren't that good yet. The Clippers were coming up, but they still had DelNegro coaching and were getting to know each other. So there was a bit of a vaccumm that the Spurs, Thunder, and Grizz were filling. As a result, the Clippers and Nuggets were able to see a dramatic improvement that year.

It helped that Western teams were able to trample all over Eastern teams as well and that there was only on 60-win team in the west that year.

Heediot
02-02-2018, 07:25 AM
Makes you wonder how good that Knicks team could have been if they held the core w/ MVP caliber Amare, Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, Etc..

They had a shot at Melo in FA that year, even without the trade. The Nets going after him via trade, scared the f out of Dolan, so he panicked and made the trade.

TrueFan420
02-02-2018, 10:00 AM
What was their winning% in close games?

No idea not even sure where I'd look it up... it memory serves me they were solid in the that area in the regular season and people were saying it's cause they'd move the ball and no one would know which player would get it but when push comes to shove in the post season some times you just need a guy to straight up take over and that team didn't have a guy that could consistently do it.

PowerHouse
02-02-2018, 10:02 AM
I know you only answered a question, but I don't see it. That Bulls team was 2nd in the league in SRS, 1st in DRtg, and 11th in DRtg and won 62 games. In comparison, the 2013 Nuggets were 5th in SRS, 5th in ORtg, 11th in DRtg.

The 2011 Bulls had the following as the top-5 players that year
Derrick Rose - 6.0 VORP, 5.9 BPM, .208 WS/48, 23.5 PER
Luol Deng - 3.4 VORP, 2.2 BPM, .149 WS/48, 15.5 PER
Joakim Noah - 2.8 VORP, 4.9 BPM, .205 WS/48, 18.8 PER
Carlos Boozer - 1.3 VORP, 0.7 BPM, .149 WS/48, 18.8 PER
Ronnie Brewer - 1.7 VORP, 1.8 BPM, 0.147 WS/48, 17.2 PER

The 2013 Nuggets had the following as their top-5 players that year
Andre Iguodala - 3.7 VORP, 3.2 BPM, .097 WS/48, 15.2 PER
Ty Lawson - 2.2 VORP, 1.4 BPM, 0.141 WS/48, 17.9 PER
Danilo Gallinari - 2.5 VORP, 2.3 BPM, 0.151 WS/48, 16.7 PER
Kenneth Faried - 2.4 VORP, 2.2 BPM, 0.167 WS/48, 18.5 PER
Kosta Koufos - 1.6 VORP, 1.5 BPM, 0.171 WS/48, 17.2 PER


The Bulls and Nuggets were probably the 2 deepest teams in the league that season, and the results show it. However, the Bulls had by far the most impactful player in Derrick Rose. Give me the '11 Bulls over the '13 Nuggets.

I dont disagree with what you're saying but you gotta admit the 2011 Bulls team follows the same pattern as that Nuggets team. A bunch of players that are complete trash now but a few years back they were pretty good and played well together.

Shammyguy3
02-02-2018, 11:09 AM
I dont disagree with what you're saying but you gotta admit the 2011 Bulls team follows the same pattern as that Nuggets team. A bunch of players that are complete trash now but a few years back they were pretty good and played well together.

IT's not really the same. Why hold it against players who are "trash" now if they were better in their primes? And again, nobody on that Nuggets team could replicate the production that Derrick Rose was able to.

JordansBulls
02-03-2018, 12:09 AM
It was a weak era.

JordansBulls
02-03-2018, 12:10 AM
I dont disagree with what you're saying but you gotta admit the 2011 Bulls team follows the same pattern as that Nuggets team. A bunch of players that are complete trash now but a few years back they were pretty good and played well together.

Bulls had the best player in the league who won league mvp. Not the same

Shammyguy3
02-03-2018, 12:43 AM
It was a weak era.

How

JordansBulls
02-03-2018, 12:49 AM
How

You had 5 teams win 56+ games and Denver had no star.

Chronz
02-03-2018, 01:03 AM
You had 5 teams win 56+ games and Denver had no star.
Sounds like the 90s

Shammyguy3
02-03-2018, 02:06 AM
You had 5 teams win 56+ games and Denver had no star.

That doesnt really mean anything. Why was the era weak?

FlashBolt
02-03-2018, 02:19 AM
That doesnt really mean anything. Why was the era weak?

Cause michael Jordan is the best and you know it. Duh. oh, and lebron played it in. everything he does is against weak inferior competition. Michael jordan played vs Muggz Bogues. He score many pointz. Good hard pointz.

Redrum187
02-03-2018, 03:05 AM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2013.html

Ty Lawson
Andre Iguodala
Danilo Gallinari
Kenneth Faried
Kosta Koufos

I challenge anyone to find a worse roster that won more games since 2000.

2005-2006 Dallas Mavericks (60-22 record, Referees gave ship to Miami)

PG: Jason Terry (started 80/80 games)
SG: Adrian Griffin (started 45/52 games)
SF: Josh Howard (started 58/59 games)
PF: Dirk Nowitzki (started 81/81 games)
C: DeSagana Diop (started 46/81 games)

Performances
Lawson (2013) => Terry (2006)
Andre Iguodala >>>> Adrian Griffin (whodafuqisdatguy)
Danilo Gallinari > Josh Howard
Kenneth Faried <<<<<< Dirk Nowitzki
Kosta Koufos > DeSagana Diop

With the one clear advantage the Mavericks had in the starting line-up and their bench, the Mavericks were able to get to the Finals and win the first 2 games in the Finals before the Referees screwed Dirk and the Mavs.

I challenge anyone to find a more **tty starting 5 that won 60 games and went to the Finals.

GREATNESS ONE
02-03-2018, 03:11 AM
I just came to this thread because RR posted :love:

Redrum187
02-03-2018, 03:21 PM
I just came to this thread because RR posted :love:

We need to go see 50 Shades Freed together bae! ;) :love:

Chronz
02-03-2018, 05:03 PM
2005-2006 Dallas Mavericks (60-22 record, Referees gave ship to Miami)

PG: Jason Terry (started 80/80 games)
SG: Adrian Griffin (started 45/52 games)
SF: Josh Howard (started 58/59 games)
PF: Dirk Nowitzki (started 81/81 games)
C: DeSagana Diop (started 46/81 games)

Performances
Lawson (2013) => Terry (2006)
Andre Iguodala >>>> Adrian Griffin (whodafuqisdatguy)
Danilo Gallinari > Josh Howard
Kenneth Faried <<<<<< Dirk Nowitzki
Kosta Koufos > DeSagana Diop

With the one clear advantage the Mavericks had in the starting line-up and their bench, the Mavericks were able to get to the Finals and win the first 2 games in the Finals before the Referees screwed Dirk and the Mavs.

I challenge anyone to find a more **tty starting 5 that won 60 games and went to the Finals.

True. I remember having to up Griffin abbr diop to insanely high defensive levels on 2k just to get the Mavs on contender status