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valade16
01-25-2018, 07:55 PM
So we do a "Top 25 greatest players of all-time list" routinely here on PSD, but I want to do an all-time list of best, not greatest.

What is the difference?

This is not a list that measures a players accolades or career, it is a list of simply, if all the players were at their peak/in their prime/at their best (however you describe it) and all in a draft, who would you take first to play against each other in a draft?

Who are the best players throughout NBA history. You can use stats or accolades to back up your opinion, but this is about who is best, not who made the most All-NBA teams, or who scored the most points, etc. If you think player A is better than player B despite them having a shorter career, vote for player A.

If you wish to vote for someone else, please vote for other and post who you voted for in the comments. If you wish to nominate someone (or multiple people) for the next poll, post in the comments and I will add them if there are at least 2 nominations for that player.

In the event of a tie vote, they will both be listed at that number and the next player will begin where that is left off (for instance, T-6th, T-6th, 8th)

Current List

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
T3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
T3. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Hakeem Olajuwon

mightybosstone
01-25-2018, 08:07 PM
Yessssss!!!!! I love that Hakeem went No. 8, and I was pretty much the deciding vote between he and Curry. That makes my day. Go Rockets! Boo Warriors!

That being said, now I have to decide between two players from teams I loathe...

tredigs
01-25-2018, 08:36 PM
Not a bad list so far.

valade16
01-25-2018, 08:39 PM
Yessssss!!!!! I love that Hakeem went No. 8, and I was pretty much the deciding vote between he and Curry. That makes my day. Go Rockets! Boo Warriors!

That being said, now I have to decide between two players from teams I loathe...

Yeah your switch from Curry to Hakeem gave him the win lol

My two favorite players ever went 7 and 8 lol.

I'm down to deciding between Duncan and Curry at this point.

tredigs
01-25-2018, 08:40 PM
If prob go Curry, Duncan then Moses from here. Dr. J and KD are the names I would add.

LOb0
01-25-2018, 08:50 PM
Not a bad list so far.

Other than Kareem not being number 2, I'm okay with it.

Duncan is the clear guy here

tredigs
01-25-2018, 08:52 PM
Other than Kareem not being number 2, I'm okay with it.

Duncan is the clear guy here

Oh, Duncan is far, FAR from the clear guy here. But I am confident he is who will get picked, and it's a fine choice. Personally I'm not voting or arguing on most of these, I want to see what PSD actually thinks when left to their own accord.

LOb0
01-25-2018, 08:54 PM
Oh, Duncan is far, FAR from the clear guy here. But I am confident he is who will get picked, and it's a fine choice. Personally I'm not voting or arguing on most of these, I want to see what PSD actually thinks when left to their own accord.

You had KD on your list. Your opinion is invalid.

tredigs
01-25-2018, 08:55 PM
You had KD on your list. Your opinion is invalid.

Yes, because having an MVP/FMVP and GOAT level scorer as a clear candidate with the next group of names is invalid. You've always been the thinker of the group Lobo.

LOb0
01-25-2018, 09:39 PM
Yes, because having an MVP/FMVP and GOAT level scorer as a clear candidate with the next group of names is invalid. You've always been the thinker of the group Lobo.

Only 1 ring with 73 win team. Thanks for your clearly unbias opinion of KD lmao.

tredigs
01-25-2018, 09:49 PM
Only 1 ring with 73 win team. Thanks for your clearly unbias opinion of KD lmao.

Lol yes, I am the biased one here. Listen dude, his peak/prime is among the best 15-20 in history. You can be a child and not capable of seeing that that because of your personal opinions of his personal decision (or maybe you just don't know **** about basketball), but his skill is not something any objective/smart fan debates. In fact it's precisely that factor that makes everyone so angry.

Now, enough KD talk in here. He's not even a name on the board yet.

kdspurman
01-25-2018, 10:31 PM
Yeah your switch from Curry to Hakeem gave him the win lol

My two favorite players ever went 7 and 8 lol.

I'm down to deciding between Duncan and Curry at this point.

I'm drafting TD here. Peak/Best/Prime, etc.. I saw what he can do with a very medicore roster and how he can take over a series on both ends of the floor.

europagnpilgrim
01-25-2018, 10:50 PM
If prob go Curry, Duncan then Moses from here. Dr. J and KD are the names I would add.

Curry at 8? where is Nash right behind him since he is a better version of Nash and both got 2 nba mvps

you guys on here are simply amazed by the moment, a guy balls out for 3 years out of 9 and he is top 8 as most dominant best ever? on psd, where amazing frequently happens

LA_Raiders
01-25-2018, 10:52 PM
Lol

tredigs
01-25-2018, 10:55 PM
Curry at 8? where is Nash right behind him since he is a better version of Nash and both got 2 nba mvps

you guys on here are simply amazed by the moment, a guy balls out for 3 years out of 9 and he is top 8 as most dominant best ever? on psd, where amazing frequently happens

This is about PEAK buddy. Nash had an incredible offensive peak in his own right, but Curry's on a completely transcendent level and obviously above Nash. Nash was the first to admit that.

WaDe03
01-25-2018, 10:58 PM
Going with Wade, dominant on both ends of the floor and carried his team to a championship with the 2nd best performance ever.

tredigs
01-25-2018, 11:24 PM
I'll actually give Curry one simple stat/accolade base-level post then leave it be, because I do think he has a very strong case to go here.

In the past 3 years (in a league that can be argued as rich with talent as ever), he's the overall NBA leader in PER (28.2), WS/48 (.275) and TS% (65%) among anyone scoring over 15 PPG. His per-36 is 30/5/7 on 49/43/91. Multiple personal/team records and the only unanimous MVP to boot. We can argue underwhelming Finals for his level (though they are laughably overstated and really only the 2nd Finals was truly underwhelming, especially considering the level he was at pre playoffs/injury), but by and large he was great in the post-season also. 27/6/6 on 46/42/88. Multiple titles and leading the team to the most wins in a 3 year span in NBA history. Not a bad run for the kid.

FlashBolt
01-25-2018, 11:50 PM
Duncan didn't absorb the ball with the Spurs so it makes sense his stats won't be eyepopping. But his 2002-2003 playoffs year was insane. Let's be honest here.. the regular season isn't even worth watching some games. If you think Curry dropping 36 points on bad teams is enough to sway you of how good he is, go for it. But the reality is it looks as if some of the players today just don't put as much effort as they used to. Tim Duncan personifies how a player should play. And the fact his playoff performances have always been better than his regular season shows you the type of player he is. Give me Duncan any day.

KnicksorBust
01-25-2018, 11:52 PM
****in lame. Hakeems peak is not better than duncan. So pissed I voted for curry last round.

tredigs
01-26-2018, 12:08 AM
Duncan didn't absorb the ball with the Spurs so it makes sense his stats won't be eyepopping. But his 2002-2003 playoffs year was insane. Let's be honest here.. the regular season isn't even worth watching some games. If you think Curry dropping 36 points on bad teams is enough to sway you of how good he is, go for it. But the reality is it looks as if some of the players today just don't put as much effort as they used to. Tim Duncan personifies how a player should play. And the fact his playoff performances have always been better than his regular season shows you the type of player he is. Give me Duncan any day.
"Duncan didn't absorb the ball"? What does that even mean? He was averaging 42 MPG on a 29% USG and did the majority of his work taking the ball in the post, with next to 0 off ball movement. His offense is simply significantly inferior to Curry's. It's his D that cuts the gap, and where people need to decide if it outweighs what Curry provides. Even on Duncan's GOAT playoff run that we have to point to for this (as to you reg season doesn't matter and Curry only scores against weak teams... cute), per-36 we're talking about 20.9 PPG, 3.4 O-rebounds (Steven Adams averages 5) and 4.5 assists on a 57.7% TS. Now his D was fantastic and IMO it's a GOAT level playoff run still, but, it's still just a playoff run. One that culminated in a 6 game Finals over the 49 win Nets (GO EAST!)

GREATNESS ONE
01-26-2018, 12:34 AM
Lol

This is PSD, were stats, Per and analytics decide rankings.... Kobe is ranked 12-16 here :laugh2:

LOb0
01-26-2018, 01:08 AM
Lol yes, I am the biased one here. Listen dude, his peak/prime is among the best 15-20 in history. You can be a child and not capable of seeing that that because of your personal opinions of his personal decision (or maybe you just don't know **** about basketball), but his skill is not something any objective/smart fan debates. In fact it's precisely that factor that makes everyone so angry.

Now, enough KD talk in here. He's not even a name on the board yet.

I wouldn't take KD in my top 15 or 20. All I seen was a guy incapable of winning when it mattered. Wade is ahead of KD.

LOb0
01-26-2018, 01:11 AM
****in lame. Hakeems peak is not better than duncan. So pissed I voted for curry last round.

I voted Duncan too but, Hakeem won with a roster that was lacking a great second option and had Rudy T as a coach, not pop. That is a real argument.

valade16
01-26-2018, 01:19 AM
I wouldn't take KD in my top 15 or 20. All I seen was a guy incapable of winning when it mattered. Wade is ahead of KD.

If KD wouldnít make your 15-20 because he couldnít win, where do you have Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, or Patrick Ewing?

valade16
01-26-2018, 01:22 AM
****in lame. Hakeems peak is not better than duncan. So pissed I voted for curry last round.

I almost feel like I have to vote Duncan just for the symmetry of having Hakeem next to Duncan. The list already has wilt next to Shaq and Bird next to Magic lol

LOb0
01-26-2018, 01:29 AM
If KD wouldnít make your 15-20 because he couldnít win, where do you have Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, or Patrick Ewing?

There's a fine line between losing and and choking. Barkley I have pretty high, he was just out played by the goat. Malone despite playing against MJ as well had a lot of choke jobs.

The fact that Durant came out in the game 6 against GS and just choked it away and then ran to GS is pathetic. Doing what Durant did should make you question everything about him as a player. Is he good enough to finish a playoffs? Does he think he was good enough? If I thought I was I sure as hell wouldn't run to the enemy.

Laker Legend42
01-26-2018, 02:17 AM
I think lebron has surpassed everyone. People love to point at Jordanís six rings and the undefeatedness of it all as if the years prior never happend. If itís only about rings both he and Jordan donít compare to Robert Horry and bill Russell and Luke Walton and dude from Gonzaga is better than Charles Barkley. Both Kobe and Jordan were more competitive but lebron has passed them all. Honestly I hate this question I would rather say these guys are just great. However, you canít say something good about one without people taking it like youíre bad mouthing the other guy.

KnicksorBust
01-26-2018, 09:04 AM
I'm scared Duncan... my #4 career player of all-time... could slide out of the top 10 peak list... But gotta go Curry here in the spirit of the thread. Curry in 2015-2016 was not human.

KnicksorBust
01-26-2018, 09:06 AM
For the record I hope these polls go 50 deep. The top 10 was always going to be SIMILAR to the normal GOAT list. The debates are going to really get fun soon. You could go a million different ways around 12-15.

KnicksorBust
01-26-2018, 09:08 AM
Players I'm expecting to make the biggest jumps based on peak:
Walton
Wade
T-Mac
Kawhi
Sabonis?????

ball4reel
01-26-2018, 09:16 AM
Duncan then Kobe for me

ewing
01-26-2018, 10:08 AM
Oh, Duncan is far, FAR from the clear guy here. But I am confident he is who will get picked, and it's a fine choice. Personally I'm not voting or arguing on most of these, I want to see what PSD actually thinks when left to their own accord.

No one cares what you think


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tredigs
01-26-2018, 10:11 AM
No one cares what you think


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Then I'm finally in your company. Cheers village idiot.

mightybosstone
01-26-2018, 10:50 AM
If I'm going to flip flop from Curry to Hakeem based on overall impact and big game performance, I have to use the same logic for this vote. Give me Duncan by a hair, and Curry can take No. 10 in a landslide.

ewing
01-26-2018, 10:50 AM
Then I'm finally in your company. Cheers village idiot.

They donít


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WaDe03
01-26-2018, 11:56 AM
If I'm going to flip flop from Curry to Hakeem based on overall impact and big game performance, I have to use the same logic for this vote. Give me Duncan by a hair, and Curry can take No. 10 in a landslide.

Overall impact and big game performance:

Wade > Curry

mightybosstone
01-26-2018, 12:13 PM
Overall impact and big game performance:

Wade > Curry

I mean, there's certainly a case to be made there. It's just easier to make that argument with elite defensive big men than it is other guards and wings. Wade was a very good defensive player, but he didn't have remotely the same impact defensively as guys like Dream and Duncan.

tredigs
01-26-2018, 01:28 PM
They donít


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Lol cool. Feel free to enlighten us with your breadth of knowledge whenever you're done trolling you perennially useless pile.

FlashBolt
01-26-2018, 03:00 PM
"Duncan didn't absorb the ball"? What does that even mean? He was averaging 42 MPG on a 29% USG and did the majority of his work taking the ball in the post, with next to 0 off ball movement. His offense is simply significantly inferior to Curry's. It's his D that cuts the gap, and where people need to decide if it outweighs what Curry provides. Even on Duncan's GOAT playoff run that we have to point to for this (as to you reg season doesn't matter and Curry only scores against weak teams... cute), per-36 we're talking about 20.9 PPG, 3.4 O-rebounds (Steven Adams averages 5) and 4.5 assists on a 57.7% TS. Now his D was fantastic and IMO it's a GOAT level playoff run still, but, it's still just a playoff run. One that culminated in a 6 game Finals over the 49 win Nets (GO EAST!)

USG% doesn't really determine possessions and ball domination. Tim Duncan's position already puts him at a disadvantage compared to superstar wing or backcourt players in terms of having the ball in his hands. I concede the offense but the defense also matters. Klay picks up many of Curry's assignments and I've also seen Iggy do so as well. And it's not like Duncan's offense is complete trash. The guy could score against anyone but it wasn't always for the best interest of his team to do so. I think we can all agree that defense matters plenty and verifiable proof is how Bill Russell is able to be ranked so highly. His defense led to championships.

Steven Adams is the best O-Reb today. He's clearly better than Duncan at rebounding but pace and the lineup of small-ball has put Adams in a significant advantage over Duncan. He would not be averaging the same amount of O-Reb against the giants of Duncan's time. I mean, Steven Adams is much bigger than 90% of the centers today. Plus, he isn't only having the best O-Reb season for this year but he would rank #2 behind Rodman in a few seasons and ahead of him in some as well. This is a really good season from Adams and he is still underrated. He has become our third best player.

In that season, Duncan outplayed Shaq and destroyed the best offense in the NBA, the Mavs. I mean, those are two-All time GOAT level players at their prime and Duncan outplayed both of them. It was a fantastic playoff run. Have we seen one from Curry that comes close to replicating that? I mean, sure, Curry's regular season peak was historically great. So great that the Jordan debates started popping up. The inevitable, "Curry > LeBron" discussions were being made. It almost felt unreal that Curry was already, better than LeBron. And then the playoffs came rolling and we all saw what happened. Discussions died and no one has brought them up again. Why? Well, Curry can generate all the regular season victories he wants but when he was vastly outplayed by LeBron and then needed the assistance of KD to beat him, people were not impressed. I've always been impressed with Duncan. Outside of the missed freebies vs the Heat when Battier was guarding him, Duncan has excelled every time and rarely disappointed.

ewing
01-26-2018, 04:42 PM
Lol cool. Feel free to enlighten us with your breadth of knowledge whenever you're done trolling you perennially useless pile.

Stop trying to sound smart


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tredigs
01-26-2018, 08:25 PM
USG% doesn't really determine possessions and ball domination. Tim Duncan's position already puts him at a disadvantage compared to superstar wing or backcourt players in terms of having the ball in his hands. I concede the offense but the defense also matters. Klay picks up many of Curry's assignments and I've also seen Iggy do so as well. And it's not like Duncan's offense is complete trash. The guy could score against anyone but it wasn't always for the best interest of his team to do so. I think we can all agree that defense matters plenty and verifiable proof is how Bill Russell is able to be ranked so highly. His defense led to championships.

Steven Adams is the best O-Reb today. He's clearly better than Duncan at rebounding but pace and the lineup of small-ball has put Adams in a significant advantage over Duncan. He would not be averaging the same amount of O-Reb against the giants of Duncan's time. I mean, Steven Adams is much bigger than 90% of the centers today. Plus, he isn't only having the best O-Reb season for this year but he would rank #2 behind Rodman in a few seasons and ahead of him in some as well. This is a really good season from Adams and he is still underrated. He has become our third best player.

In that season, Duncan outplayed Shaq and destroyed the best offense in the NBA, the Mavs. I mean, those are two-All time GOAT level players at their prime and Duncan outplayed both of them. It was a fantastic playoff run. Have we seen one from Curry that comes close to replicating that? I mean, sure, Curry's regular season peak was historically great. So great that the Jordan debates started popping up. The inevitable, "Curry > LeBron" discussions were being made. It almost felt unreal that Curry was already, better than LeBron. And then the playoffs came rolling and we all saw what happened. Discussions died and no one has brought them up again. Why? Well, Curry can generate all the regular season victories he wants but when he was vastly outplayed by LeBron and then needed the assistance of KD to beat him, people were not impressed. I've always been impressed with Duncan. Outside of the missed freebies vs the Heat when Battier was guarding him, Duncan has excelled every time and rarely disappointed.

You're still essentially focusing on a ~20 game stretch that culminated in a Finals against a 49 win team though, right? He was brilliant, but I'd like it to be accompanied by complete dominance day in and day out like many of these other guys are doing (he was fantastic and the MVP, but it wasn't a top 25 reg season). I think we'd have seen a much different post season from Curry had he not gone down in his GOAT season (that was pretty far above any level we've seen from Duncan in playoffs or otherwise), but that's here nor there. He was healthy last season and dominated as well. Ditto this season (with or without KD
.. And more so without). He was actually only outplayed by KD in the Finals, of which Curry also was the focal point of the Cavs D and still put up an insane series. For my money, what I've seen from Curry on a months/years on end basis is simply more dominant than what we've seen from Duncan. Has a decent case over Magic as well but that ship sailed.

That said, i'm fine with the Duncan choice. I have Hakeem, Curry, Magic and Bird on a very similar peak plain.

valade16
01-26-2018, 08:58 PM
I was hoping that a "best" list would be something that would be enduring (except for young stars that are still improving) and that we could look back on it in 10 years relatively unchanged (again, unless a young star rapidly improves). But I do wonder if in 10 years we won't be looking at Curry and wondering why he didn't go Top 5. I get the dip in playoff numbers, etc., but he has been legendarily good the past 3 seasons. And if it comes down to it, do I really think Magic was simply a flat out better/more impactful player? IDK (though I'm not trying to begin that debate since it's already been decided).

ewing
01-26-2018, 09:02 PM
You're still essentially focusing on a ~20 game stretch that culminated in a Finals against a 49 win team though, right? He was brilliant, but I'd like it to be accompanied by complete dominance day in and day out like many of these other guys are doing (he was fantastic and the MVP, but it wasn't a top 25 reg season). I think we'd have seen a much different post season from Curry had he not gone down in his GOAT season (that was pretty far above any level we've seen from Duncan in playoffs or otherwise), but that's here nor there. He was healthy last season and dominated as well. Ditto this season (with or without KD
.. And more so without). He was actually only outplayed by KD in the Finals, of which Curry also was the focal point of the Cavs D and still put up an insane series. For my money, what I've seen from Curry on a months/years on end basis is simply more dominant than what we've seen from Duncan. Has a decent case over Magic as well but that ship sailed.

That said, i'm fine with the Duncan choice. I have Hakeem, Curry, Magic and Bird on a very similar peak plain.

So if Curry played worse in the regular season, he would be better in the post season? Sorry Treg but you are once again creating nonsensical narratives for your boy. I could someone thinking a guy wore down but that wasnít the case bc his mins were kept in check.


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tredigs
01-26-2018, 09:08 PM
So if Curry played worse in the regular season, he would be better in the post season? Sorry Treg but you are once again creating nonsensical narratives for your boy. I could someone thinking a guy wore down but that wasnít the case bc his mins were kept in check.


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Wtf are you saying? Guy you are in over your head. Stick to the one liner trolling and let's keep the analysis to the guys who actually watch basketball outside of New York.

ewing
01-26-2018, 09:13 PM
Wtf are you saying? Guy you are in over your head. Stick to the one liner trolling and let's keep the analysis to the guys who actually watch basketball outside of New York.

Are you blaming injury or the fact he had a great regular season? Iím sorry but your post isnít clear


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More-Than-Most
01-26-2018, 09:20 PM
This is PSD, were stats, Per and analytics decide rankings.... Kobe is ranked 12-16 here :laugh2:

this is what i am confused on... id have kobe 8-11 but are we going by the best player or peak performance... i have seen tre talk up peak performance and am now confused... id have duncan as a top 7 player as well but both duncan and kobe are top 10 players because of longevity and how great they were for said number of years over insane peak ability... i am kinda lost now

tredigs
01-26-2018, 09:22 PM
Are you blaming injury or the fact he had a great regular season? Iím sorry but your post isnít clear


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Your purpose on this site isn't clear.

KnicksorBust
01-26-2018, 09:26 PM
This is PSD, were stats, Per and analytics decide rankings.... Kobe is ranked 12-16 here :laugh2:

this is what i am confused on... id have kobe 8-11 but are we going by the best player or peak performance... i have seen tre talk up peak performance and am now confused... id have duncan as a top 7 player as well but both duncan and kobe are top 10 players because of longevity and how great they were for said number of years over insane peak ability... i am kinda lost now

Rank them by who you would want at their absolute best for one season. Longevity is irrelevant here. That is why Duncan and Kobe might slide and why Curry almost won #8.

More-Than-Most
01-26-2018, 09:35 PM
Rank them by who you would want at their absolute best for one season. Longevity is irrelevant here. That is why Duncan and Kobe might slide and why Curry almost won #8.

Oh yea then id have duncan and kobe lower but wouldnt shaq be higher? without me going and looking at the statistical output would lebron still be 2? lebron is a peak and longevity monster but is his best year on par with or above a year where KOJ put up 35/17? Now the game was different of course but if we are going by a peak year as justification then Durant/Curry have arguments over some of these guys as well.

ewing
01-26-2018, 09:55 PM
Your purpose on this site isn't clear.

Whatís your problem? All you do is put people down and act superior. Sorry if I called you out for thinking that your opinion would shift the voting for the site but it was silly. Maybe you should laugh it off


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tredigs
01-26-2018, 09:56 PM
this is what i am confused on... id have kobe 8-11 but are we going by the best player or peak performance... i have seen tre talk up peak performance and am now confused... id have duncan as a top 7 player as well but both duncan and kobe are top 10 players because of longevity and how great they were for said number of years over insane peak ability... i am kinda lost now

Yeah this is a list about peak/prime best play. Not a career ranking.

tredigs
01-26-2018, 10:00 PM
Whatís your problem? All you do is put people down and act superior. Sorry if I called you out for thinking that your opinion would shift the voting for the site but it was silly. Maybe you should laugh it off


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I just think you should start contributing or stfu. Because all you do is derail. Gotta be a lot funnier if you're going to blatantly troll or just generally offer nothing constructive to a topic.

YAALREADYKNO
01-26-2018, 11:31 PM
A topic of Primes/Peaks And Kobe hasnít gone yet lol

FlashBolt
01-26-2018, 11:36 PM
You're still essentially focusing on a ~20 game stretch that culminated in a Finals against a 49 win team though, right? He was brilliant, but I'd like it to be accompanied by complete dominance day in and day out like many of these other guys are doing (he was fantastic and the MVP, but it wasn't a top 25 reg season). I think we'd have seen a much different post season from Curry had he not gone down in his GOAT season (that was pretty far above any level we've seen from Duncan in playoffs or otherwise), but that's here nor there. He was healthy last season and dominated as well. Ditto this season (with or without KD
.. And more so without). He was actually only outplayed by KD in the Finals, of which Curry also was the focal point of the Cavs D and still put up an insane series. For my money, what I've seen from Curry on a months/years on end basis is simply more dominant than what we've seen from Duncan. Has a decent case over Magic as well but that ship sailed.

That said, i'm fine with the Duncan choice. I have Hakeem, Curry, Magic and Bird on a very similar peak plain.

Like I said, it's close but Duncan's playoff improvement is what I am basing this off of. Yes, Curry is miles better than Duncan offensively (so far in the regular season, not the same in the playoffs) while Duncan more than makes up for it defensively. Is there an argument that Curry comes close to TD's defense? Nope. I'm basing this off Duncan's impact in the playoffs. Curry's best season was 15-16. He was absolutely terrible in the playoffs compared to his "peak." Duncan's best was, IMO, 02-03. He was sensational and was clearly a better player than Curry if we compare playoffs performances. I have no problem with Curry going here as well. I actually said before #5 or #6 was chosen that Curry's name should be mentioned. But I can't get past that terrible playoffs performance by Curry. Especially in the Finals in which if he played just 10% better, Warriors would and should have won.

FlashBolt
01-26-2018, 11:37 PM
A topic of Primes/Peaks And Kobe hasnít gone yet lol

Lol. Peak Kobe doesn't even come close to top 10. Kobe has never had a season as good as KD's best so I'm not sure where you think Kobe should fall under but it definitely isn't here.

YAALREADYKNO
01-26-2018, 11:46 PM
Lol. Peak Kobe doesn't even come close to top 10. Kobe has never had a season as good as KD's best so I'm not sure where you think Kobe should fall under but it definitely isn't here.

81pts, 62pts in 3 quarters, 4 game streak of 50pts or more lmao 35.4ppg on 45% shooting while getting the lakers into the playoffs with a scrub and a bust as his starting point guard and center one year...but yeah he doesnít belong

FlashBolt
01-26-2018, 11:53 PM
81pts, 62pts in 3 quarters, 4 game streak of 50pts or more lmao 35.4ppg on 45% shooting while getting the lakers into the playoffs with a scrub and a bust as his starting point guard and center one year...but yeah he doesnít belong

And all those points still only lead to a 35 PPG average - which is high but he wasn't as efficient as many other stars who were much more efficient but dropped 30 points. His 05-06 season doesn't come close to being as good as Curry's 15-16 season. That's the truth. And Westbrook's 2016-17 season also beats out Kobe's. And last I checked, team requirements mean nothing in this discussion or else LeBron's years from his original Cleveland days should all be 1-10 spots.

For reference, Curry's 15-16 season, he dropped 30 on .670 TS.
Kobe's 05-06 season, he dropped 35 on .580 TS. Do you know how large of a difference that .100 is? Imagine if someone was shooting .770 TS dropping 30 points. That, my friend, would be a God.

tredigs
01-27-2018, 12:32 AM
Like I said, it's close but Duncan's playoff improvement is what I am basing this off of. Yes, Curry is miles better than Duncan offensively (so far in the regular season, not the same in the playoffs) while Duncan more than makes up for it defensively. Is there an argument that Curry comes close to TD's defense? Nope. I'm basing this off Duncan's impact in the playoffs. Curry's best season was 15-16. He was absolutely terrible in the playoffs compared to his "peak." Duncan's best was, IMO, 02-03. He was sensational and was clearly a better player than Curry if we compare playoffs performances. I have no problem with Curry going here as well. I actually said before #5 or #6 was chosen that Curry's name should be mentioned. But I can't get past that terrible playoffs performance by Curry. Especially in the Finals in which if he played just 10% better, Warriors would and should have won.

I'm tired and past-work tonight. I will say it's crazy that the playoffs Curry is most criticized for is one that he came back from after a two week MCL tear where he missed half the post season. Seems a crazy year to critique if we're being real, no?

And yes, I get it. He had an adrenaline rush and demolished the weaker Lillard/Blazers D. But, I've literally watched this guys entire career. I can tell you, he was not CLOSE to his same GOAT-level self in those playoffs after he tore his MCL (shocker!). He can ride his adrenaline for so long, but the guy was injured. Period. And more to the point, what I saw from Curry at his peak was WAY beyond what I've ever seen from Duncan. And I saw peak Olajuwon. What Curry was doing crapped on peak Olajuwon. It is what it is. Wish he never got injured. And I wish KD never joined the Warriors.

ewing
01-27-2018, 10:12 AM
I just think you should start contributing or stfu. Because all you do is derail. Gotta be a lot funnier if you're going to blatantly troll or just generally offer nothing constructive to a topic.

Ok if you want my take I'll take Duncan here. I take him b/c of defensive impact and b/c Curry while a great player hasn't faced enough challenges in my mind. He greatest asset is his scoring ability and I am not convinced he is a all time great go to scorer. you can say that the Cavs defense was geared towards Curry but everyone knew when it was tight in the late 4th quarter that the ball was going to KD. I value timely scoring and I am not convinced Curry can go get a bucket whenever he wants. I also agree with Vlade that we may look back in 5 or 10 years and feel different. I value post season much more then regular season and the fact that Curry lead teams have not really been challenged much makes it harder to assess

mightybosstone
01-27-2018, 10:29 AM
A topic of Primes/Peaks And Kobe hasnít gone yet lol

Kobe's peak isn't that good. :shrug:

KnicksorBust
01-27-2018, 03:20 PM
On my phone, whats the vote?

Shammyguy3
01-27-2018, 03:24 PM
On my phone, whats the vote?

Duncan 9, Curry 4, Kobe 3, Wade 1, et. al. 0

KnicksorBust
01-27-2018, 03:29 PM
On my phone, whats the vote?

Duncan 9, Curry 4, Kobe 3, Wade 1, et. al. 0

Ty.

Does Kobe pose a threat to Curry?

Shammyguy3
01-27-2018, 04:05 PM
Ty.

Does Kobe pose a threat to Curry?

Nope. Single best season, peak-wise, Kobe is still a tier or two below. He's high up on my ranking only due to his longevity

tredigs
01-27-2018, 09:04 PM
Ok if you want my take I'll take Duncan here. I take him b/c of defensive impact and b/c Curry while a great player hasn't faced enough challenges in my mind. He greatest asset is his scoring ability and I am not convinced he is a all time great go to scorer. you can say that the Cavs defense was geared towards Curry but everyone knew when it was tight in the late 4th quarter that the ball was going to KD. I value timely scoring and I am not convinced Curry can go get a bucket whenever he wants. I also agree with Vlade that we may look back in 5 or 10 years and feel different. I value post season much more then regular season and the fact that Curry lead teams have not really been challenged much makes it harder to assess

There you go. Fair enough. I highly disagree with a lot of this but there's definitely no question that in a last-shot type scenario where a D can completely overcommit and smother a player of their choice knowing he's getting the shot, you want the lengthy 7 foot assassin to have the ball. In the other 47 and a half minutes, I want it in Curry's hands. But yes if you value timely scoring over overall dominance/team impact, I understand that Curry should fall in your rankings.


I'm reading this and it feels like I'm trolling but I'm not. I understand your take.

ewing
01-27-2018, 09:45 PM
There you go. Fair enough. I highly disagree with a lot of this but there's definitely no question that in a last-shot type scenario where a D can completely overcommit and smother a player of their choice knowing he's getting the shot, you want the lengthy 7 foot assassin to have the ball. In the other 47 and a half minutes, I want it in Curry's hands. But yes if you value timely scoring over overall dominance/team impact, I understand that Curry should fall in your rankings.


I'm reading this and it feels like I'm trolling but I'm not. I understand your take.



I think we can agree to disagree on the importance of timely scoring but I do think it is about more then the last possession. In tight games its also about breaking runs and keeping your own team's confidence when things start to go wrong. Curry is defiantly legit but when you are deciding who is a better all time great its an important factor to me. I also think Curry may have been growing into that guy the last couple years. Its just harder to tell with how dominate his team is.

tredigs
01-27-2018, 10:00 PM
I think we can agree to disagree on the importance of timely scoring but I do think it is about more then the last possession. In tight games its also about breaking runs and keeping your own team's confidence when things start to go wrong. Curry is defiantly legit but when you are deciding who is a better all time great its an important factor to me. I also think Curry may have been growing into that guy the last couple years. Its just harder to tell with how dominate his team is.

Gotchya. I have mentioned this before but will again add that Curry tied Jordan's All Time 4th quarter scoring total in an NBA Finals (17)... twice... In his first Finals. One in a comeback win and one in a just failed comeback. Feels relevant.

Duncan at his best was a very solid post scorer and an elite post defender. He was perfect for early 2k ball. Curry is a transcendent force that changes opposing teams, let alone games/wins. In any quarter. Of any game.

It's funny because I truly feel that East Coast fans don't fully understand how great he is. He's not LA hype and he's after most of your bed time viewing wise on the day to day, but rest assure, this is a GOAT player.

I know you hate these silly impact stats like RPM, but again, there is a reason why Curry is at or near the top year after year after year. Or maybe Aisha is behind it idk.

GREATNESS ONE
01-28-2018, 01:35 AM
Kobe would beat Wade and Curry in a 1v1 match at their absolute peak.

GREATNESS ONE
01-28-2018, 01:36 AM
Nope. Single best season, peak-wise, Kobe is still a tier or two below. He's high up on my ranking only due to his longevity

Lol ďtypicalĒ watched some Kobe games, hate the Lakers answer.

Chronz
01-28-2018, 01:46 AM
Lol ďtypicalĒ watched some Kobe games, hate the Lakers answer.

Why ain't it true doe?

GREATNESS ONE
01-28-2018, 02:20 AM
Why ain't it true doe?

It's PSD Kobe is 12-16. you kno

Shammyguy3
01-28-2018, 07:07 PM
Lol ďtypicalĒ watched some Kobe games, hate the Lakers answer.

For peak season's here is a comparison between Kobe, Wade, Duncan, Curry, Barkley:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kobe+bryant&player_id1_select=Kobe+Bryant&y1=2006&player_id1=bryanko01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=dwyane+wade&player_id2_select=Dwyane+Wade&y2=2009&player_id2=wadedw01&idx=players&player_id3_select=Tim+Duncan&y3=2002&player_id3=duncati01&idx=players&player_id4_hint=stephen+curry&player_id4_select=Stephen+Curry&y4=2016&player_id4=curryst01&idx=players&player_id5_hint=Charles+Barkley&player_id5_select=Charles+Barkley&y5=1990&player_id5=barklch01&idx=players

Kobe is 3rd in PER and AST%
Kobe is 4th in Offensive BPM
Kobe is T-last in ORtg
Kobe is last in VORP, BPM, TS%, WS/48


Curry is 1st in VORP, BPM, TS%, WS/48, PER, OBPM
Curry is 2nd in ORtg and AST%


Duncan is 1st in DBPM
Duncan is 3rd in TS%, WS/48
Duncan is 4th in VORP, BPM, AST%
Duncan is T-Last in ORtg
Duncan is last in PER

Wade is 1st in AST%
Wade is 2nd in VORP, BPM, PER, OBPM
Wade is 3rd in ORtg,
Wade is 4th in TS%, WS/48

Barkley is 1st in ORtg,
Barkley is 2nd in TS%, WS/48
Barkley is 3rd in VORP, BPM, OBPM
Barkley is 4th in PER,
Barkley is last in AST%


Kobe is statistically behind on the whole when compared to those guys. And he doesn't have that elite defense like Duncan to close the gap. Yes, Kobe's counting numbers were phenomenal. But they fail to tell the whole story.

FlashBolt
01-28-2018, 09:50 PM
The worst/most pointless 30k points soon = Melo. He doesn't deserve to be up there, tbh.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 12:00 AM
What fails to tell the whole story is barely watching the games. I watched every single one of Kobeís games in his 20year career. Keep looking at Baskteballreference to make your decisions.

More-Than-Most
01-29-2018, 01:32 AM
What fails to tell the whole story is barely watching the games. I watched every single one of Kobeís games in his 20year career. Keep looking at Baskteballreference to make your decisions.

oh jesus christ how many times must you go to this same argument when it comes to a laker? Did you watch every single minute of every single game of every single other player on this list because only then can you make the watched games crap as a good excuse... When gauging kobe against other players and using the I watched his games as a determining factor you better be ready to have watched the players he is being gauged against just as much and there is no possible way you or anyone else did... So basically you watching just kobe the majority of the time doesnt do anything to help your argument but does everything to hurt it because it helps show your bias.... It would be like me saying Iverson is better than Tmac because I watched Iverson every game of his sixer career when i probably watched iverson 10 times more than I watched Tmac.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 02:30 AM
What fails to tell the whole story is barely watching the games. I watched every single one of Kobeís games in his 20year career. Keep looking at Baskteballreference to make your decisions.

So you have watched every player's entire career? So because you watched Kobe, does thst mean he is better than Michael because you missed some of his games?

That is the logic you are using

More-Than-Most
01-29-2018, 02:39 AM
So you have watched every player's entire career? So because you watched Kobe, does thst mean he is better than Michael because you missed some of his games?

That is the logic you are using

boom... logic bomb.

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 02:44 AM
What fails to tell the whole story is barely watching the games. I watched every single one of Kobeís games in his 20year career. Keep looking at Baskteballreference to make your decisions.

You possibly wouldn't be affected in any way due to you being a Kobe fan, right? Basketballreference is a better source than you are.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 03:05 AM
So you have watched every player's entire career? So because you watched Kobe, does thst mean he is better than Michael because you missed some of his games?

That is the logic you are using

um I watched most 95% or more of Micheal Jordan's career too.. lol

I watch a lot of basketball, my point is numbers don't tell the story, using it as a primary backing in a argument amongst these greats is selling these amazing players careers short. Kobe is top 10 in all of these players lists we're discussing... probably in 98/99% easy... Yet we know more sitting on our couches, researching basketballreference.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 03:07 AM
You possibly wouldn't be affected in any way due to you being a Kobe fan, right? Basketballreference is a better source than you are.

cool story bro. My argument still stands my friend.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 03:07 AM
boom... logic bomb.

Ball>Fultz

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 03:15 AM
cool story bro. My argument still stands my friend.

What argument? Saying you watched Kobe play and identifying that as a source is not an argument.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 03:18 AM
What argument? Saying you watched Kobe play and identifying that as a source is not an argument.

That numbers don't even come close to telling the story, I have come to acceptance that on this site Kobe is ranked 11-16, that's totally fine. I'm a grown *** man lol I'm not here to play with the kids but also, I don't mind them playing, we need more of that on PSD than banning.

LA_Raiders
01-29-2018, 03:57 AM
Bunch of LeChoke lovers here. This PSD List is the same joke year after year...

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 04:26 AM
That numbers don't even come close to telling the story, I have come to acceptance that on this site Kobe is ranked 11-16, that's totally fine. I'm a grown *** man lol I'm not here to play with the kids but also, I don't mind them playing, we need more of that on PSD than banning.

Kobe's peak wasn't top 10 worthy. What he's ranked all-time is another story but peak-for-peak, Kobe never even had a better season than some seasons KD, Curry, and others have generated. There is no argument to be had. He scored all those points and only managed 35 PPG.. you make it seem as if he was dropping 50-60 every night. He obviously wasn't considering his average is only 35 despite the high scoring games. Curry at his 15-16 peak would have destroyed the modern scoring records if he wanted to. Problem was Warriors were killing everyone and Curry is not as selfish as Kobe, MJ, AI, etc.,

KnicksorBust
01-29-2018, 12:59 PM
For peak season's here is a comparison between Kobe, Wade, Duncan, Curry, Barkley:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kobe+bryant&player_id1_select=Kobe+Bryant&y1=2006&player_id1=bryanko01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=dwyane+wade&player_id2_select=Dwyane+Wade&y2=2009&player_id2=wadedw01&idx=players&player_id3_select=Tim+Duncan&y3=2002&player_id3=duncati01&idx=players&player_id4_hint=stephen+curry&player_id4_select=Stephen+Curry&y4=2016&player_id4=curryst01&idx=players&player_id5_hint=Charles+Barkley&player_id5_select=Charles+Barkley&y5=1990&player_id5=barklch01&idx=players

Kobe is 3rd in PER and AST%
Kobe is 4th in Offensive BPM
Kobe is T-last in ORtg
Kobe is last in VORP, BPM, TS%, WS/48


Curry is 1st in VORP, BPM, TS%, WS/48, PER, OBPM
Curry is 2nd in ORtg and AST%


Duncan is 1st in DBPM
Duncan is 3rd in TS%, WS/48
Duncan is 4th in VORP, BPM, AST%
Duncan is T-Last in ORtg
Duncan is last in PER

Wade is 1st in AST%
Wade is 2nd in VORP, BPM, PER, OBPM
Wade is 3rd in ORtg,
Wade is 4th in TS%, WS/48

Barkley is 1st in ORtg,
Barkley is 2nd in TS%, WS/48
Barkley is 3rd in VORP, BPM, OBPM
Barkley is 4th in PER,
Barkley is last in AST%


Kobe is statistically behind on the whole when compared to those guys. And he doesn't have that elite defense like Duncan to close the gap. Yes, Kobe's counting numbers were phenomenal. But they fail to tell the whole story.

I really don't think Barkley should be mentioned at this point. I would take Moses or Walton over him but nice breakdown.


um I watched most 95% or more of Micheal Jordan's career too.. lol

I watch a lot of basketball, my point is numbers don't tell the story, using it as a primary backing in a argument amongst these greats is selling these amazing players careers short. Kobe is top 10 in all of these players lists we're discussing... probably in 98/99% easy... Yet we know more sitting on our couches, researching basketballreference..

That numbers don't even come close to telling the story, I have come to acceptance that on this site Kobe is ranked 11-16, that's totally fine. I'm a grown *** man lol I'm not here to play with the kids but also, I don't mind them playing, we need more of that on PSD than banning..

If have a viewpoint from watching games and numbers back up my opinion then they become relevant. You don't seem to be making any argument at all?


Bunch of LeChoke lovers here. This PSD List is the same joke year after year...

Another great argument. Really don't understand the point in being on a sports forum to just make obnoxious, arrogant comments. At some point roll your sleeves up and actually debate or just shut up.


Kobe's peak wasn't top 10 worthy. What he's ranked all-time is another story but peak-for-peak, Kobe never even had a better season than some seasons KD, Curry, and others have generated. There is no argument to be had. He scored all those points and only managed 35 PPG.. you make it seem as if he was dropping 50-60 every night. He obviously wasn't considering his average is only 35 despite the high scoring games. Curry at his 15-16 peak would have destroyed the modern scoring records if he wanted to. Problem was Warriors were killing everyone and Curry is not as selfish as Kobe, MJ, AI, etc.,

The wild thing to me about Curry's year is that he dropped 30ppg on such limitted minutes. His per36 scoring is actually better than anybody else on Shammy's breakdown. He even outscored Kobe per36. He just was getting his 30ppg on 20 shots per game while Kobe needed 27 shots and so he barely needed to play the 4th. Not to take away from Kobe. I'm probably the biggest non-lakers Kobe supporter on here when it comes to all-time rankings. But Curry's peak season is just flat out better.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 02:33 PM
I really don't think Barkley should be mentioned at this point. I would take Moses or Walton over him but nice breakdown.

The wild thing to me about Curry's year is that he dropped 30ppg on such limitted minutes. His per36 scoring is actually better than anybody else on Shammy's breakdown. He even outscored Kobe per36. He just was getting his 30ppg on 20 shots per game while Kobe needed 27 shots and so he barely needed to play the 4th. Not to take away from Kobe. I'm probably the biggest non-lakers Kobe supporter on here when it comes to all-time rankings. But Curry's peak season is just flat out better.

Peak-wise, I'm not sure Chuck is that far behind of Kobe honestly. Which is why I included him. Now, in Kobe's prime he was an average defender at best. Chuck was never a good defender. But, Chuck was far and away the more efficient player offensively, and honestly Chuck was a damn good playmaker.

Chuck - 4.9 assists per100, 3.9 turnovers per100
Kobe - 5.8 assists per100, 4.0 turnovers per100.

Kobe was better, but there isn't a huge gap. And since Kobe wasn't adding much defensively, Chuck's uber efficiency makes it a debate in my eyes.

And yeah, I think people have already forgotten that Curry hardly played 4th quarter minutes because of how great that W's team was that year.

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 02:53 PM
LOLz ďAverage defender at best.Ē

Yea canít argue that KOB. A

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 06:15 PM
LOLz ďAverage defender at best.Ē

Yea canít argue that KOB. A

It's true and you still have not made an argument.

Lolz.

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 07:00 PM
It's true and you still have not made an argument.

Lolz.

Disagree on the average defense at his peak. It was certainly elite but then it got overrated as years went on.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 07:27 PM
Disagree on the average defense at his peak. It was certainly elite but then it got overrated as years went on.

His defense took a significant step back once Shaq left (which is when his statistical prime started). You can blame it on the offensive demands and defensive pressure he had, but it happened. His defense was never really elite either.

tredigs
01-29-2018, 07:34 PM
In the playoffs in the Shaq years his D was elite in ISO. Never the best team defender/off-ball defender, but if he was locked in he could lock most guys down who tried him. His All D teams are a complete fabrication of his media dominance though. Those are a running joke, especially past '06.

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 08:01 PM
His defense took a significant step back once Shaq left (which is when his statistical prime started). You can blame it on the offensive demands and defensive pressure he had, but it happened. His defense was never really elite either.

You mean once Kobe had to put in all the offensive work because his teams were poor? I mean, that's not any motivation to play any defense knowing you have to create the offense having Smush Parker as your backcourt running mate. It's like saying Klay's defense would take a significant step back once he gets his own team. Well, yeah. He's still a very good defender. But saying he was average? I get maybe not elite but average? C'mon, don't be a hater.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 08:12 PM
You mean once Kobe had to put in all the offensive work because his teams were poor? I mean, that's not any motivation to play any defense knowing you have to create the offense having Smush Parker as your backcourt running mate. It's like saying Klay's defense would take a significant step back once he gets his own team. Well, yeah. He's still a very good defender. But saying he was average? I get maybe not elite but average? C'mon, don't be a hater.

In a vacuum was Kobe a great defender? I guess that depends on your definition of great, and also what time frame. But yes, if Klay was the alpha dog and had to worry about the offense more his defense would suffer.

That literally means that his defensive production on the court would be worse. Which is what happened to Kobe. Which makes it all that more impressive for guys that do have such a high workload offensively but maintain elite levels of defense (i.e. Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Kareem, Duncan, Gary Payton, Kawhi, etc.)

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 08:12 PM
In the playoffs in the Shaq years his D was elite in ISO. Never the best team defender/off-ball defender, but if he was locked in he could lock most guys down who tried him. His All D teams are a complete fabrication of his media dominance though. Those are a running joke, especially past '06.

Agreed

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 08:20 PM
In a vacuum was Kobe a great defender? I guess that depends on your definition of great, and also what time frame. But yes, if Klay was the alpha dog and had to worry about the offense more his defense would suffer.

That literally means that his defensive production on the court would be worse. Which is what happened to Kobe. Which makes it all that more impressive for guys that do have such a high workload offensively but maintain elite levels of defense (i.e. Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Kareem, Duncan, Gary Payton, Kawhi, etc.)

You're missing the point. Saying he was an average defender is a total lie. At his peak, he was far from an average defender. It's not fair to judge a Kobe playing on a 05-06 Lakers team that couldn't even dribble a ball past the court without silly. His early 2000's years were absolutely great defense. Then he had to expand all his energy carrying that trash assembled team. Again, how many of you play defense when you're on trash teams? There's like zero point.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 08:50 PM
You're missing the point. Saying he was an average defender is a total lie. At his peak, he was far from an average defender. It's not fair to judge a Kobe playing on a 05-06 Lakers team that couldn't even dribble a ball past the court without silly. His early 2000's years were absolutely great defense. Then he had to expand all his energy carrying that trash assembled team. Again, how many of you play defense when you're on trash teams? There's like zero point.

I believe I qualified that statement with "In his prime, he was average defensively". Whether you accept that because of his offensive demands or not, it is true. Whether you hold it against him or not, is up to you.

You are making the claim that at no point do I believe he was a ____ defender (insert your definition of good, great, elite, what-be-have-you). But we are discussing statistical primes. So yes, I have to hold it against him when comparing him to other all-time greats.

FlashBolt
01-29-2018, 08:54 PM
I believe I qualified that statement with "In his prime, he was average defensively". Whether you accept that because of his offensive demands or not, it is true. Whether you hold it against him or not, is up to you.

You are making the claim that at no point do I believe he was a ____ defender (insert your definition of good, great, elite, what-be-have-you). But we are discussing statistical primes. So yes, I have to hold it against him when comparing him to other all-time greats.

Kobe's prime to me was early early 2000's. People keep saying 2005-06 because of the points but his prime was always consistent in terms of performance. Which year do you think Kobe was at his prime? That would clarify some things more and also tell me why you felt those were Kobe's prime years.

Shammyguy3
01-29-2018, 09:19 PM
Kobe's prime to me was early early 2000's. People keep saying 2005-06 because of the points but his prime was always consistent in terms of performance. Which year do you think Kobe was at his prime? That would clarify some things more and also tell me why you felt those were Kobe's prime years.

To me, his statistical prime is from the 03/04 or 04/05 season to the 07/08 season

GREATNESS ONE
01-29-2018, 09:30 PM
More like 00/01-09/10

Chronz
01-30-2018, 05:59 PM
What fails to tell the whole story is barely watching the games. I watched every single one of Kobeís games in his 20year career. Keep looking at Baskteballreference to make your decisions.

I saw the games too. So what?

Chronz
01-30-2018, 06:01 PM
His defense took a significant step back once Shaq left (which is when his statistical prime started). You can blame it on the offensive demands and defensive pressure he had, but it happened. His defense was never really elite either.

It took a step back before Shaq left, his own coach agreed

Chronz
01-30-2018, 06:02 PM
To me, his statistical prime is from the 03/04 or 04/05 season to the 07/08 season
04 05 (his first without Shaq) was pedestrian by star standards and it would've looked worse ifnot for them basically reenacting the triangle

Chronz
01-30-2018, 06:04 PM
Kobe's prime to me was early early 2000's. People keep saying 2005-06 because of the points but his prime was always consistent in terms of performance. Which year do you think Kobe was at his prime? That would clarify some things more and also tell me why you felt those were Kobe's prime years.

I'll regurgitate pop, he's always been a cut your throat type of scorer but he became a leader of men later. It's the phental state. Wilt wasn't a better player when he was hogging