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View Full Version : Nikola Mirotic=Kevin Love?



WaDe03
01-18-2018, 01:23 PM
So the trade deadline is 3 weeks away and is one of my favorite times of the year. It's always fun to speculate and try to come up with trades to try and improve whatever team you're rooting for. You all know I'm a Wade fan and idk how much longer hell play, hell he may go back to Miami next year for his last year, especially if LeBron leaves. That being said, I'm trying to come up with a way to get the Cavs on level playing field with the Warriors. Their best assets are the Nets pick and imo Kevin Love but I'm not sure they want to trade Love.

One thing I've been looking at is trading Crowder for a 1st, using that 1st or the Cavs 1st to get Mirotic and making Love available for a bigger trade. Had to trade Crowder for a 1st to still be able to trade the Net pick in this scenario.

So let me go away from all the trade details and ask you this, if you replaced Love with Mirotic would they be better, about the same, or worse?

I'm on a phone so it's hard to post the numbers but I will post them when I get home. I know most of you like to look at this things yourself and look deeper than I would anyways.

From what I saw, they're damn near the same so far. Same usage, about the same basic stats (Mirotic shoots 5 or 6% better from 3 on more attempts which is huge). Per 36 looks about the same with a slight rebounding edge to Love while Mirotic scores more. The advanced stats I saw seem to favor Mirotic by quite a bit though.

What do you all think?

Giannis94
01-18-2018, 01:26 PM
Seriously? Another spam thread?

RowBTrice
01-18-2018, 01:50 PM
Seriously? Another spam thread?

Boom, roasted!

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 01:52 PM
Seriously? Another spam thread?

Check the numbers.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 01:53 PM
Boom, roasted!

Here you come with your negativity again.

Giannis94
01-18-2018, 02:00 PM
Check the numbers.

This seems like it belongs in the trade deadline thread?

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:01 PM
This seems like it belongs in the trade deadline thread?

It's a player comparison, I just explained why I began looking into it.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:02 PM
If this thread is off base then by all means feel free to close mods but the number are identical and honestly favor Mirotic more than Love and the Bulls have been balling since Mirotic came back.

IndyRealist
01-18-2018, 02:03 PM
Nothing that sets up those trades is going to happen. Crowder will not be traded for a 1st, and neither will Mirotic.

smith&wesson
01-18-2018, 02:05 PM
Seriously? Another spam thread?

I'm convinced that's all this kid does all day.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:08 PM
Nothing that sets up those trades is going to happen. Crowder will not be traded for a 1st, and neither will Mirotic.

You don't think a playoff team would trade a 1st for Crowder who is on a great contract? I'm pretty sure I read the Bulls want a first for Mirotic.

Trade stuff aside though, you're a numbers guy. What do you think when you compare Mirotic and Loves numbers?

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:09 PM
I'm convinced that's all this kid does all day.

I'm so confused why you're taking shots at me and making things up about me today lol.

tredigs
01-18-2018, 02:23 PM
You don't think a playoff team would trade a 1st for Crowder who is on a great contract? I'm pretty sure I read the Bulls want a first for Mirotic.

Trade stuff aside though, you're a numbers guy. What do you think when you compare Mirotic and Loves numbers?

It's been 20 games of action at 25mpg. So far nothing from his past indicates he will sustain this over the course of the season. Being that he's about to turn 27 it's tough to imagine we don't see a regression to the mean sooner than later for him.

IndyRealist
01-18-2018, 02:23 PM
You don't think a playoff team would trade a 1st for Crowder who is on a great contract? I'm pretty sure I read the Bulls want a first for Mirotic.

Trade stuff aside though, you're a numbers guy. What do you think when you compare Mirotic and Loves numbers?
There's a big difference in 1sts. I'm not sure you could trade the Nets pick for Mirotic atm. He's balling, the Bulls have zero expectations this year, and they have a team option on him next year. The only reason to trade him is if he says he definitely wants out after next season. They'd be crazy to move him for anything less than a top 10 pick.

The Cavs ARE a playoff team that needs Crowder. He's underperforming and you are not getting a 1st just because he has a cheap contract when he hasn't shown he can thrive outside of Boston.

Trades aside, I don't trust Mirotic's sample size of 500 minutes. Best case scenario he's roughly as good as Love and you're effing with contender chemistry to break even on talent. Worst case he's trash without Hoiberg. In a year and change you also have to think about paying him when Thomas and Lebron could both walk and you're basically the Bulls.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:31 PM
It's been 20 games of action at 25mpg. So far nothing from his past indicates he will sustain this over the course of the season. Being that he's about to turn 27 it's tough to imagine we don't see a regression to the mean sooner than later for him.

You could definitely be right but to his defense he was at the Bulls facility all summer and also added 15-20 pounds of muscle. I can't remember how much exactly. Maybe it's just improvement to his game in the middle of what should be his prime years. Maybe Portis knocked some sense into him.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 02:33 PM
There's a big difference in 1sts. I'm not sure you could trade the Nets pick for Mirotic atm. He's balling, the Bulls have zero expectations this year, and they have a team option on him next year. The only reason to trade him is if he says he definitely wants out after next season. They'd be crazy to move him for anything less than a top 10 pick.

The Cavs ARE a playoff team that needs Crowder. He's underperforming and you are not getting a 1st just because he has a cheap contract when he hasn't shown he can thrive outside of Boston.

Trades aside, I don't trust Mirotic's sample size of 500 minutes. Best case scenario he's roughly as good as Love and you're effing with contender chemistry to break even on talent. Worst case he's trash without Hoiberg. In a year and change you also have to think about paying him when Thomas and Lebron could both walk and you're basically the Bulls.

He's saying he still wants out and has a NTC so who knows what will happen.

It's definitely a gamble but if you want to compete with the Warriors you're gong to have to take some gambles and hope they pay off. On your break even point, if they do break even there and then trade Love as well as the Nets pick, either together or in separate deals, they definitely improve the team. Just trying to come up with a way to trade the best assets but ease the blow while doing it.

aman_13
01-18-2018, 02:51 PM
A first for Mirotic? That's ridiculous.

IndyRealist
01-18-2018, 02:53 PM
He's saying he still wants out and has a NTC so who knows what will happen.

It's definitely a gamble but if you want to compete with the Warriors you're gong to have to take some gambles and hope they pay off. On your break even point, if they do break even there and then trade Love as well as the Nets pick, either together or in separate deals, they definitely improve the team. Just trying to come up with a way to trade the best assets but ease the blow while doing it.

That break even is ignoring trades. If you are figuring trades in, it's likely the Nets pick to get Mirotic, at least.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 03:03 PM
That break even is ignoring trades. If you are figuring trades in, it's likely the Nets pick to get Mirotic, at least.

I highly doubt he would require the Nets pick. I'll try and dig up what I found on their asking price. That NTC is huge, a 1st in 15-25 range and a decent prospect or 2 might be a good deal for them. Plus they will drop in the standings and improve their pick which is what the should be doing to fill out that young core.

Dunn
Lavine
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Lauri
???

RowBTrice
01-18-2018, 03:24 PM
Here you come with your negativity again.

Boom, roasted is actually quite positive. It brings laughter to all.

IndyRealist
01-18-2018, 03:38 PM
I highly doubt he would require the Nets pick. I'll try and dig up what I found on their asking price. That NTC is huge, a 1st in 15-25 range and a decent prospect or 2 might be a good deal for them. Plus they will drop in the standings and improve their pick which is what the should be doing to fill out that young core.

Dunn
Lavine
???
Lauri
???

I think you're overestimating how much Mirotic would be willing to be the franchise guy for Cleveland after next year with Lebron and Thomas possibly gone. The only reason to waive his NTC is to get his Bird rights onto a capped team. And the Cavs don't have "a decent prospect or two" anyway, so it's not like you can just throw them in. And Crowder is definitely not landing you a mid first when you think that's the price for Mirotic.

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 03:42 PM
I think you're overestimating how much Mirotic would be willing to be the franchise guy for Cleveland after next year with Lebron and Thomas possibly gone. The only reason to waive his NTC is to get his Bird rights onto a capped team. And the Cavs don't have "a decent prospect or two" anyway, so it's not like you can just throw them in. And Crowder is definitely not landing you a mid first when you think that's the price for Mirotic.

Cedi and Zizic are decent prospects. I guess we'll see what he's traded for then.

Vee-Rex
01-18-2018, 03:46 PM
And the Cavs don't have "a decent prospect or two" anyway,

Hate to single out a line in your overall point, but I'd argue Cedi Osman is a decent prospect. He hasn't played many minutes at all but has looked better than some rotational players for the Cavs (particularly JR and Crowder). Good size at 6'8, lengthy, can run the fast break really well and finishes at the rim, has an amazing motor, can defend and shoot the ball at an average/above-average clip.

He's pretty coveted too by several teams in the league, and that was during his time in Europe. I only wonder how much more valuable he would be if he actually had the minutes. He'll likely be a desired piece in any trade the Cavs make.

IndyRealist
01-18-2018, 04:25 PM
Hate to single out a line in your overall point, but I'd argue Cedi Osman is a decent prospect. He hasn't played many minutes at all but has looked better than some rotational players for the Cavs (particularly JR and Crowder). Good size at 6'8, lengthy, can run the fast break really well and finishes at the rim, has an amazing motor, can defend and shoot the ball at an average/above-average clip.

He's pretty coveted too by several teams in the league, and that was during his time in Europe. I only wonder how much more valuable he would be if he actually had the minutes. He'll likely be a desired piece in any trade the Cavs make.

Get him minutes and he can be evaluated against NBA talent. 293 mins is not much to go on.

Vee-Rex
01-18-2018, 04:35 PM
Get him minutes and he can be evaluated against NBA talent. 293 mins is not much to go on.

Which is why I called him a decent 'prospect' rather than calling him a decent player.

Tg11
01-18-2018, 05:06 PM
Mirotic to the Nuggets now that is an intriguing thought

WaDe03
01-18-2018, 05:32 PM
Mirotic to the Nuggets now that is an intriguing thought

For who? They already have Millsap too.