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valade16
01-09-2018, 01:37 PM
So we do a "Top 25 greatest players of all-time list" routinely here on PSD, but I want to do an all-time list of best, not greatest.

What is the difference?

This is not a list that measures a players accolades or career, it is a list of simply, if all the players were at their peak/in their prime/at their best (however you describe it) and all in a draft, who would you take first to play against each other in a draft?

Who are the best players throughout NBA history. You can use stats or accolades to back up your opinion, but this is about who is best, not who made the most All-NBA teams, or who scored the most points, etc. If you think player A is better than player B despite them having a shorter career, vote for player A.

I have started the poll with 10 players. If you wish to vote for someone else, please vote for other and post who you voted for in the comments. If you wish to nominate someone (or multiple people) for the next poll, post in the comments and I will add them if there are at least 2 nominations for that player.

In the event of a tie vote, they will both be listed at that number and the next player will begin where that is left off (for instance, T-6th, T-6th, 8th)

Current List

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James

valade16
01-09-2018, 04:45 PM
It seems in the battle of Shaq, Wilt and Kareem people are picking Shaq (thus far).

I do wonder if we're not giving due credit to how dominant Kareem was.

dhopisthename
01-09-2018, 05:25 PM
im voting wilt. I think 50/25 and 44/24 is simply a feat that hasn't been matched.

Redrum187
01-09-2018, 06:16 PM
If this was an ATRD, of course I'd pick Shaq because he's more modern and all people have to do is say "LA Shaq" and they have to change their panties... even though LA Shaq and Orlando Shaq are virtually the same player statistically (albeit, LA Shaq had 1 more assist/game but was actually slightly less efficient scoring).

But since I am not competing anyone's vote, for me it's fairly easy... Kareem.

For someone so "dominant" offensively, Shaq's efficiency, while good, is not WOWZERS great. In fact, his 3 year prime is virtually identical to Kareem's 3 year prime efficiency-wise (Kareem is slightly more efficient)... the difference being, Kareem played in a noticeably less efficient era. When looking at VORP, Shaq's is surprisingly low... Kareem would have averaged 10 VORP/year if he didn't miss 20 games in one season in his 3-year peak. Shaq's highest is 9.3, his 2nd highest is 6.8 (although "baby Shaq had a 7.1 VORP) during his 3-year peak. Their rebound % and ast % are very close as well (Kareem being marginally better rebounder and Shaq having a marginally higher ast %).

All-in-all, I think Kareem would make for a much better #1 player than Shaq. I think he could guard Shaq as well as anyone else... but LA Shaq aka "fat Shaq" would have a difficult time "dominating" on offense while keeping up with Kareem to guard him defensively. I wouldn't be tempted to bench Kareem during crunch time to avoid the hack-a-Kareem... He was a really good free throw shooter for a bigman. I'm not sure how it's NOT Kareem honestly...

Redrum187
01-09-2018, 06:19 PM
Request to add "Jumpin" Joe Fulks to next list please.

KnicksorBust
01-09-2018, 06:24 PM
Wilt.

His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?

Redrum187
01-09-2018, 06:33 PM
Wilt.

His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?

I can imagine Kareem... while not nearly as fast to keep up with Curry, I think his length would allow him to do better defensively against Curry than Wilt. From everything I've read, Kareem was the best defender of the lot.

Redrum187
01-09-2018, 06:37 PM
I know Wilt played in a time when efficiency was low, but so did Kareem (granted they entered the league 10 years apart). Wilt did his 50/25 thing on .537 TS%. He wasn't as efficient as Kareem, and he played against inferior opposition.

GREATNESS ONE
01-09-2018, 06:42 PM
Kobe Bryant

FlashBolt
01-09-2018, 06:52 PM
I know Wilt played in a time when efficiency was low, but so did Kareem (granted they entered the league 10 years apart). Wilt did his 50/25 thing on .537 TS%. He wasn't as efficient as Kareem, and he played against inferior opposition.

That TS% thing will never help a guy like Wilt who had that many FGA but wasn't a good FT shooter. It's not really a fair measure as well because the game was entirely different when Wilt played during the earlier years and efficiency wasn't something they really cared about. Later his years, he became more selective with his shots and his TS% was much higher overall.

KAJ didn't necessarily play against far superior opposition. I mean, how many rings would KAJ have without Magic? He could have very well ended his career winning 2-3 rings only had Magic not shown up. Also, Wilt was by far the superior athlete, shotblocker, and rebounder. Which season of KAJ was better than Wilt? I'm not seeing it. I don't see a season where KAJ also surpassed Shaq. KAJ's highest rebounding season never even broke Wilt's worst rebounding season.

mightybosstone
01-09-2018, 06:59 PM
What's more impressive: 40/25/3 with mediocre efficiency in the early 60s (Wilt), 30/16/5 with elite efficiency in the early 70s (Kareem) or 29/13/3 with elite efficiency (Shaq)? You could make a strong case for any of the the three.

Advanced stats don't paint a clear picture of the three either. PER obviously leans toward Wilt's peak, WS and WS/48 favor Kareem, but VORP and BPM aren't tracked prior to the mid-70s, which eliminates Kareem and Wilt's peaks.

Gun to my head, I kind of want to lean toward Kareem. From 71-74, he won three MVPs, one title and put up three consecutive seasons of 30/16/4 with a 29+ PER and a .320+ WS/48 over a four-year span, which is ridiculous. Wilt didn't get his first title until he was 30, and by then, his peak had definitely passed him by. Also, from a pure skill standpoint, I think Kareem was a more skilled player on paper than Shaq.

Shaq is tougher to argue in this case, because his major selling point is that his peak and prime were consistently spectacular for a much longer period of time than Kareem and Wilt's peaks. But I don't think they're quite as strong. However, from 2000-02, he won three titles and an MVP over three seasons, so that certainly helps his case. I'd argue, though, that those Lakers teams were probably more talented and better built that Kareem's Bucks teams in the 70s with a well-past-his-prime Oscar Robertson.

LeonFSU
01-09-2018, 07:01 PM
Wilt.

His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?

Is this relevant to the voting criteria?

FlashBolt
01-09-2018, 07:10 PM
Is this relevant to the voting criteria?

I think his point had more to do with Wilt being able to dominate in any era because his athleticism and physical capabilities was extraordinary.

mightybosstone
01-09-2018, 09:32 PM
Kobe Bryant

Lol. C'mon man. I get that you're a Lakers fan and a huge Kobe guy, but his peak was nowhere remotely close to third all-time. In fact, the consistency and longevity of his prime was what made him a top 10-15 guy in the league. But if you take his best season and put it up there against the best seasons of all-time, he's pretty far down that list.

In all seriousness, I don't know that Kobe would crack my all-time top 25 in this discussion.

Redrum187
01-09-2018, 10:15 PM
That TS% thing will never help a guy like Wilt who had that many FGA but wasn't a good FT shooter. It's not really a fair measure as well because the game was entirely different when Wilt played during the earlier years and efficiency wasn't something they really cared about. Later his years, he became more selective with his shots and his TS% was much higher overall.

KAJ didn't necessarily play against far superior opposition. I mean, how many rings would KAJ have without Magic? He could have very well ended his career winning 2-3 rings only had Magic not shown up. Also, Wilt was by far the superior athlete, shotblocker, and rebounder. Which season of KAJ was better than Wilt? I'm not seeing it. I don't see a season where KAJ also surpassed Shaq. KAJ's highest rebounding season never even broke Wilt's worst rebounding season.

It is a fact (technically an opinion, I get it lol) that the talent was not as good for bigmen in Wilt's era than in Kareem's era. As to how much, I will go ahead and say that is open to debate/discussion, sure.

The efficiency argument goes for Kareem too though. They didn't focus on efficiency, I was just making a point that Wilt was not very efficient against inferior opposition (which no one can argue, one can only argue to what degree of inferior bigmen there were).

As for the rings argument, it doesn't have as much weight (for me personally) when comparing 2 or 3 players' superior peak. Also, one could argue how many rings Shaq would have without the 2nd and 3rd greatest SG's in NBA history (Kobe and Wade). I get what your saying though, I just see it a little differently.

KnicksorBust
01-10-2018, 11:54 AM
I know Wilt played in a time when efficiency was low, but so did Kareem (granted they entered the league 10 years apart). Wilt did his 50/25 thing on .537 TS%. He wasn't as efficient as Kareem, and he played against inferior opposition.


What's more impressive: 40/25/3 with mediocre efficiency in the early 60s (Wilt), 30/16/5 with elite efficiency in the early 70s (Kareem) or 29/13/3 with elite efficiency (Shaq)? You could make a strong case for any of the the three.

Advanced stats don't paint a clear picture of the three either. PER obviously leans toward Wilt's peak, WS and WS/48 favor Kareem, but VORP and BPM aren't tracked prior to the mid-70s, which eliminates Kareem and Wilt's peaks.

Gun to my head, I kind of want to lean toward Kareem. From 71-74, he won three MVPs, one title and put up three consecutive seasons of 30/16/4 with a 29+ PER and a .320+ WS/48 over a four-year span, which is ridiculous. Wilt didn't get his first title until he was 30, and by then, his peak had definitely passed him by. Also, from a pure skill standpoint, I think Kareem was a more skilled player on paper than Shaq.

Shaq is tougher to argue in this case, because his major selling point is that his peak and prime were consistently spectacular for a much longer period of time than Kareem and Wilt's peaks. But I don't think they're quite as strong. However, from 2000-02, he won three titles and an MVP over three seasons, so that certainly helps his case. I'd argue, though, that those Lakers teams were probably more talented and better built that Kareem's Bucks teams in the 70s with a well-past-his-prime Oscar Robertson.


Looking at the wrong Wilt. Check out '67 Chamberlain. His best version.

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:09 PM
It seems in the battle of Shaq, Wilt and Kareem people are picking Shaq (thus far).

I do wonder if we're not giving due credit to how dominant Kareem was.

Kareem was a ninny who couldn't rebound or handle the brutes. Look at his h2h matchups in the loffs and you'll see his counter parts had a tendency to over achieve against him.

Poor Wilt had to endure so much bs throughout his career. KAJ goes after Wilt and Shaq

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:12 PM
Looking at the wrong Wilt. Check out '67 Chamberlain. His best version.

Yeah, its hard to respect a stance that thinks Wilt was beyond his prime his first title when his dominance was a large reason why that team was so revered. Smack dab in the middle of the Celtics dynasty and that's the team that gets the cred...

Dude killed it.

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:15 PM
If this was an ATRD, of course I'd pick Shaq because he's more modern and all people have to do is say "LA Shaq" and they have to change their panties... even though LA Shaq and Orlando Shaq are virtually the same player statistically (albeit, LA Shaq had 1 more assist/game but was actually slightly less efficient scoring).

But since I am not competing anyone's vote, for me it's fairly easy... Kareem.

For someone so "dominant" offensively, Shaq's efficiency, while good, is not WOWZERS great. In fact, his 3 year prime is virtually identical to Kareem's 3 year prime efficiency-wise (Kareem is slightly more efficient)... the difference being, Kareem played in a noticeably less efficient era. When looking at VORP, Shaq's is surprisingly low... Kareem would have averaged 10 VORP/year if he didn't miss 20 games in one season in his 3-year peak. Shaq's highest is 9.3, his 2nd highest is 6.8 (although "baby Shaq had a 7.1 VORP) during his 3-year peak. Their rebound % and ast % are very close as well (Kareem being marginally better rebounder and Shaq having a marginally higher ast %).

All-in-all, I think Kareem would make for a much better #1 player than Shaq. I think he could guard Shaq as well as anyone else... but LA Shaq aka "fat Shaq" would have a difficult time "dominating" on offense while keeping up with Kareem to guard him defensively. I wouldn't be tempted to bench Kareem during crunch time to avoid the hack-a-Kareem... He was a really good free throw shooter for a bigman. I'm not sure how it's NOT Kareem honestly...
I don't view stats in vacuum. Orlando Shaq was that efficient because of penny. Shaq didn't regress in L.A. his first few years, he just had to create more on his own. Similar to how kaj never approached his younger days because he lost Oscar and only had a few peak seasons left with magic, who might've been the inferior playmaker by comparison

At their best, KAJ doesn't hold a candle to them. At their worse kaj has the most embarrassing showing.

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:19 PM
Wilt.

His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?

You ever see that final play in the finals that won Wilt his first chip? Basically defended 2 guys(his eras curry being one of them) in the pnr and stifled it. Wilt lacked the proper system and management more than anything else

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:20 PM
I can imagine Kareem... while not nearly as fast to keep up with Curry, I think his length would allow him to do better defensively against Curry than Wilt. From everything I've read, Kareem was the best defender of the lot.

Quicker but weaker. Why is one era superior to another stylistically tho. I miss hand check so much

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:24 PM
That TS% thing will never help a guy like Wilt who had that many FGA but wasn't a good FT shooter. It's not really a fair measure as well because the game was entirely different when Wilt played during the earlier years and efficiency wasn't something they really cared about. Later his years, he became more selective with his shots and his TS% was much higher overall.

KAJ didn't necessarily play against far superior opposition. I mean, how many rings would KAJ have without Magic? He could have very well ended his career winning 2-3 rings only had Magic not shown up. Also, Wilt was by far the superior athlete, shotblocker, and rebounder. Which season of KAJ was better than Wilt? I'm not seeing it. I don't see a season where KAJ also surpassed Shaq. KAJ's highest rebounding season never even broke Wilt's worst rebounding season.

There's an argument to be made that kaj peak came in a weaker era due to the dual leagues thing. Kaj played with far and away the 2 greatest playmakers of their time, its sorta how Amare wasn't the same without Nash. KAJ was kind of weak until the late 70s when he started taking the abuse more seriously. I could never imagine Wilt or Shaq just getting out muscled the way he did.

For their era, that was more important imo

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:33 PM
It is a fact (technically an opinion, I get it lol) that the talent was not as good for bigmen in Wilt's era than in Kareem's era. As to how much, I will go ahead and say that is open to debate/discussion, sure.

The efficiency argument goes for Kareem too though. They didn't focus on efficiency, I was just making a point that Wilt was not very efficient against inferior opposition (which no one can argue, one can only argue to what degree of inferior bigmen there were).

As for the rings argument, it doesn't have as much weight (for me personally) when comparing 2 or 3 players' superior peak. Also, one could argue how many rings Shaq would have without the 2nd and 3rd greatest SG's in NBA history (Kobe and Wade). I get what your saying though, I just see it a little differently.

Even if your theory were correct, we saw these legends against many of the same comp. Like sure maybe Kareem had it abit harder(debatable) but it's telling to note that Wilt gave the business to an in his prime Nate Thurmond whereas kaj was UTTERLY embarrassed by an out of his prime version of the same player.

How much that should matter is up to you tho

JAZZNC
01-10-2018, 01:38 PM
Gonna have to with Wilt. He was such a physical specimen and would easily translate to any era. He may have played against inferior comp but he totally dominated statistically like no one ever has. I just feel like his size and athleticism/ability (in my mind) to go out and guard on the perimeter effectively sets him apart from the other 2 in this discussion.

Chronz
01-10-2018, 01:45 PM
Gonna have to with Wilt. He was such a physical specimen and would easily translate to any era. He may have played against inferior comp but he totally dominated statistically like no one ever has. I just feel like his size and athleticism/ability (in my mind) to go out and guard on the perimeter effectively sets him apart from the other 2 in this discussion.

If you value an era of lateral quickness and quick twitch double jumps then kaj is prolly better defensively today, Wilt was infamous for requiring more time on his shot contests and even more for believing in what we now know as the Dwight Howard school of thought where spiking shots out of bounds is more intimidating and efficient than simply corraling the rebound for his team. Luckily this is an at their best proposition.

valade16
01-10-2018, 03:30 PM
There are a lot of good arguments being made against Kareem and Wilt.

KnicksorBust
01-10-2018, 03:55 PM
There are a lot of good arguments being made against Kareem and Wilt.

What good arguments were made against '67 Wilt?

mightybosstone
01-10-2018, 04:15 PM
Looking at the wrong Wilt. Check out '67 Chamberlain. His best version.

Efficiency-wise? Sure. But by most other barometers, early 60s Wilt was superior. His regular season and posteason numbers were better in the early 60s.

mightybosstone
01-10-2018, 04:19 PM
I've seen some really good arguments in this thread for Kareem and Wilt, and a couple of good arguments against them. But where is the argument FOR Shaq? He's winning this poll somehow, but I haven't seen a single solid post just laying out the case for him over Kareem and Wilt.

Redrum187
01-10-2018, 04:31 PM
Yeah, good arguments I haven't considered against Kareem. I still have to assume a lot more when it comes to Wilt though. I still vote Kareem, although a lot less confident now. lol

KnicksorBust
01-11-2018, 02:52 PM
Efficiency-wise? Sure. But by most other barometers, early 60s Wilt was superior. His regular season and posteason numbers were better in the early 60s.

'67 Wilt had a more efficient season than Shaq ever had and he led the playoffs in offensive and defensive win shares averaging 22ppg / 29 rpg / 9apg. If we had the block totals it would be even more unreal. Unless you are obsessed with raw scoring numbers than I don't know why you would take early Wilt.

FlashBolt
01-11-2018, 03:06 PM
I've seen some really good arguments in this thread for Kareem and Wilt, and a couple of good arguments against them. But where is the argument FOR Shaq? He's winning this poll somehow, but I haven't seen a single solid post just laying out the case for him over Kareem and Wilt.

Shaq is modern. Wilt will automatically draw votes from both sides: those who overrate his stats and those who underrate him due to competition. Shaq played in a more modern NBA so he's going to get those votes. If I had to choose, I'd probably go Wilt for the career but I'll take Shaq for a peak season.

FlashBolt
01-11-2018, 03:09 PM
There's an argument to be made that kaj peak came in a weaker era due to the dual leagues thing. Kaj played with far and away the 2 greatest playmakers of their time, its sorta how Amare wasn't the same without Nash. KAJ was kind of weak until the late 70s when he started taking the abuse more seriously. I could never imagine Wilt or Shaq just getting out muscled the way he did.

For their era, that was more important imo

And KAJ's skyhook will always be used as the most unguardable shot but Shaq+Wilt were the most unguardable players so I'm not sure how KAJ really has an argument here. If they all played in the same era with their prime, KAJ would not be the best C. Imagine Shaq+Wilt with two GOAT level talent PG's who had no problem sharing the ball. Jesus.

valade16
01-11-2018, 06:16 PM
I'm having an absurdly difficult time picking between Shaq, Kareem and Wilt.

FlashBolt
01-11-2018, 06:22 PM
I'm having an absurdly difficult time picking between Shaq, Kareem and Wilt.

Real simple. Pick the guy who you think will help you win the most. That's usually the better player.

Redrum187
01-11-2018, 06:28 PM
And KAJ's skyhook will always be used as the most unguardable shot but Shaq+Wilt were the most unguardable players so I'm not sure how KAJ really has an argument here. If they all played in the same era with their prime, KAJ would not be the best C. Imagine Shaq+Wilt with two GOAT level talent PG's who had no problem sharing the ball. Jesus.

For someone so unguardable, why was Shaq's and Wilt's efficiency slightly less than Kareem's on about the same attempts? That is how myths get spread from generation to generation. They were all efficient (Wilt was in his latter years), I just imagine someone who is so "unguardable" as being on Stephen Curry's level of efficiency.

FlashBolt
01-11-2018, 07:06 PM
For someone so unguardable, why was Shaq's and Wilt's efficiency slightly less than Kareem's on about the same attempts? That is how myths get spread from generation to generation. They were all efficient (Wilt was in his latter years), I just imagine someone who is so "unguardable" as being on Stephen Curry's level of efficiency.

Not sure what you mean. Shaq's efficiency was higher and Wilt's was obviously going to be lower for obvious reasons. It wasn't until later in Wilt's career that he began taking more efficient shots. KAJ became more efficient after Magic came along. Like I said - Wilt+Shaq would all see an increase if they had Magic feeding them the ball. It wasn't just Magic, too. Worthy+Byron running the wing is underrated. They didn't call them Showtime because of KAJ. Also, just because they are unguardable doesn't mean **** happens. Shaq was fouled so many times under the basket that they often never called a thing. I mean, how many points would the guy have every game if they didn't foul him like he's the Terminator?

valade16
01-11-2018, 07:12 PM
For someone so unguardable, why was Shaq's and Wilt's efficiency slightly less than Kareem's on about the same attempts? That is how myths get spread from generation to generation. They were all efficient (Wilt was in his latter years), I just imagine someone who is so "unguardable" as being on Stephen Curry's level of efficiency.

Well there's a lot to consider. 1 Wilt's inefficiency was partly a product of his era. Consider he led the league in FG% in 9/14 years in the league.

Also consider TS% measures efficiency with FT shooting included. I don't think you're "guarding" someone if you foul them. Wilt and Shaq both put the ball in the hoop at a ridiculously high clip (58% for Shaq and 56% for Wilt).

The fact they weren't efficiency freaks like Curry is simply because they couldn't hit FTs. So their (relative) inefficiency is not really a result of anyone stopping them.

Or put differently, you can't send Steph to the line because he's simply too good a FT shooter. But you can lower his efficiency by playing tremendous defense on him and limiting his open looks. Conversely, nobody could really play tremendous defense on either Shaq or Wilt and actually stop or impede them, the only way to stop them was to send them to the line.

FlashBolt
01-11-2018, 07:33 PM
Well there's a lot to consider. 1 Wilt's inefficiency was partly a product of his era. Consider he led the league in FG% in 9/14 years in the league.

Also consider TS% measures efficiency with FT shooting included. I don't think you're "guarding" someone if you foul them. Wilt and Shaq both put the ball in the hoop at a ridiculously high clip (58% for Shaq and 56% for Wilt).

The fact they weren't efficiency freaks like Curry is simply because they couldn't hit FTs. So their (relative) inefficiency is not really a result of anyone stopping them.

Or put differently, you can't send Steph to the line because he's simply too good a FT shooter. But you can lower his efficiency by playing tremendous defense on him and limiting his open looks. Conversely, nobody could really play tremendous defense on either Shaq or Wilt and actually stop or impede them, the only way to stop them was to send them to the line.

Yup. I mean, the sheer fact Delly was bugging Curry to the slightest and Delly was just pure adrenaline should be enough evidence that Curry can be annoyed to an extent where he isn't dominating you. Shaq+Wilt, you could throw three guys at them and they'll at least hit the rim every time.

KnicksorBust
01-11-2018, 07:54 PM
I'm having an absurdly difficult time picking between Shaq, Kareem and Wilt.

What is preventing you from Wilt? He can score and defend on the same level as the other 2 while also being the fastest, strongest, most athletic, and best passer. I feel like you could throw him in a game tomorrow and he'd be fine guarding pick and roll. Switching on to ball handlers. etc.

valade16
01-11-2018, 08:42 PM
What is preventing you from Wilt? He can score and defend on the same level as the other 2 while also being the fastest, strongest, most athletic, and best passer. I feel like you could throw him in a game tomorrow and he'd be fine guarding pick and roll. Switching on to ball handlers. etc.

Well there's the trade-off between monster efficiency or volume scoring that the other two don't have to contend with (meaning when Wilt scored a ton, he wasn't super efficient and when he was super efficient he didn't score a ton).

There's also the consistently referenced selfishness. But I am leaning Wilt, even if slightly.

More-Than-Most
01-11-2018, 08:53 PM
KAJ...... then shaq or wilt.

mrblisterdundee
01-11-2018, 11:21 PM
Wilt.

His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?

I can imagine 300-pound Orlando Shaq with his 7'7" wingspan stepping out on the perimeter just as well as Wilt. People forget how quick and athletic he was before going to Los Angeles and gaining 80 pounds.

Shammyguy3
01-11-2018, 11:49 PM
Will honestly like to mention, that if this is strictly best player all time, peak performance, Stephen Curry has to be on the poll for next round, and honestly could be considered for this spot here over the towering bigs on the board

valade16
01-12-2018, 12:29 AM
Will honestly like to mention, that if this is strictly best player all time, peak performance, Stephen Curry has to be on the poll for next round, and honestly could be considered for this spot here over the towering bigs on the board

Based on nominations and previous votes I plan to add Dwyane Wade and Steph Curry to the next poll.

Does anyone want to nominate any others for the poll?

FlashBolt
01-12-2018, 01:32 AM
Will honestly like to mention, that if this is strictly best player all time, peak performance, Stephen Curry has to be on the poll for next round, and honestly could be considered for this spot here over the towering bigs on the board

Playoffs considered? Steph has no argument right now.

belikemike23
01-12-2018, 05:04 AM
Kobe all day

KnicksorBust
01-12-2018, 08:43 AM
Well there's the trade-off between monster efficiency or volume scoring that the other two don't have to contend with (meaning when Wilt scored a ton, he wasn't super efficient and when he was super efficient he didn't score a ton).

There's also the consistently referenced selfishness. But I am leaning Wilt, even if slightly.

But isn't a safe assumption that super efficient Wilt could have scored more but he just learned to play the best team basketball. That '67 season he learned he could score 25, set up his teammates, rebound, and defend and dominate the league. I don't think it was that he wasn't capable of scoring 40 anymore he just learned that he didn't have to every night and it helped his team be more successful. I find it hard to believe that a physical freak like Wilt Chamberlain who was could run like a deer, lift Arnold like a rag doll, and teams were still trying to sign at 50 was suddenly incapable of putting up big numbers anymore at 29.

KnicksorBust
01-12-2018, 08:48 AM
I can imagine 300-pound Orlando Shaq with his 7'7" wingspan stepping out on the perimeter just as well as Wilt. People forget how quick and athletic he was before going to Los Angeles and gaining 80 pounds.

I'll concede that Orlando Shaq was fast and dynamic for his SIZE but you can't seriously compare him to a track star like Wilt Chamberlain.


Will honestly like to mention, that if this is strictly best player all time, peak performance, Stephen Curry has to be on the poll for next round, and honestly could be considered for this spot here over the towering bigs on the board

I'll co-sign Curry.


Based on nominations and previous votes I plan to add Dwyane Wade and Steph Curry to the next poll.

Does anyone want to nominate any others for the poll?

Throw 77 Walton and 82-83 Moses on there. League/Finals MVP combos deserve recognition. I can definitely see making a case for either of them top 10

Chronz
01-12-2018, 12:38 PM
I can imagine 300-pound Orlando Shaq with his 7'7" wingspan stepping out on the perimeter just as well as Wilt. People forget how quick and athletic he was before going to Los Angeles and gaining 80 pounds.

He gained like 20 and it wasn't just fat

Chronz
01-12-2018, 12:43 PM
Well there's the trade-off between monster efficiency or volume scoring that the other two don't have to contend with (meaning when Wilt scored a ton, he wasn't super efficient and when he was super efficient he didn't score a ton).

There's also the consistently referenced selfishness. But I am leaning Wilt, even if slightly.

A trade off he was teaching the league. He was selfish tho, kind of like AI in that regard cuz it's not like his team couldn't have done as good without him hogging. Unlike AI, a team was never built around that, Wilt adapted more often

valade16
01-12-2018, 02:49 PM
Looking through the comments, JazzNC voted for Wilt so it is a tie 6-6 for Kareem and Wilt. I will post the next poll for #5

mrblisterdundee
01-12-2018, 06:06 PM
He gained like 20 and it wasn't just fat

He reached 370 during his last season in Los Angeles after coming into the league at 294 pounds.

GREATNESS ONE
01-12-2018, 07:30 PM
Looking through the comments, JazzNC voted for Wilt so it is a tie 6-6 for Kareem and Wilt. I will post the next poll for #5

yet conveniently skip my Kobe pick in the comments..

valade16
01-12-2018, 07:40 PM
yet conveniently skip my Kobe pick in the comments..

No I counted it, just Kobe wasn't close to winning lol

Redrum187
01-13-2018, 05:28 PM
yet conveniently skip my kobe pick in the comments..

i <3 u 2

Chronz
01-13-2018, 07:24 PM
He reached 370 during his last season in Los Angeles after coming into the league at 294 pounds.
Lol rookie Shaq didn't stay at 294 for long at all.
By the time he left he was easily in the 330 range and only hit 380 the year he couldn't train, lost the weight thereafter.

Point stands