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valade16
01-05-2018, 11:33 PM
So we do a "Top 25 greatest players of all-time list" routinely here on PSD, but I want to do an all-time list of best, not greatest.

What is the difference?

This is not a list that measures a players accolades or career, it is a list of simply, if all the players were at their peak/in their prime/at their best (however you describe it) and all in a draft, who would you take first to play against each other in a draft?

Who are the best players throughout NBA history. You can use stats or accolades to back up your opinion, but this is about who is best, not who made the most All-NBA teams, or who scored the most points, etc. If you think player A is better than player B despite them having a shorter career, vote for player A.

I have started the poll with 10 players. If you wish to vote for someone else, please vote for other and post who you voted for in the comments. If you wish to nominate someone (or multiple people) for the next poll, post in the comments and I will add them if there are at least 2 nominations for that player.

In the event of a tie vote, they will both be listed at that number and the next player will begin where that is left off (for instance, T-6th, T-6th, 8th)

valade16
01-05-2018, 11:45 PM
I imagine there will be more of a debate for #2 between LeBron, Kareem, Wilt and Shaq (though I suspect LeBron could run away with it).

All are very deserving IMO

Shammyguy3
01-06-2018, 12:08 AM
Lebron for me, but a couple other guys have clearly good arguments for this spot too

JAZZNC
01-06-2018, 12:14 AM
Given the "draft" aspect of these threads, I would have to go with LeBron if I had the second pick in the draft. He just can do so much and being able to play/guard multiple positions and his insane numbers puts him at #2 for me. He's an incredible player and has been the best player on the planet for so long it's just mind boggling. We are all very fortunate to be able to watch him play.

Like Jordan at #1, I just don't see how any player in the future could surpass him at #2. They both are that kind of good. After #2 I can see a run on the dominant centers but I truly feel like the two best wings of all time should go first. Then things get interesting and I'm going to have a very difficult time picking from here on out.

lol, please
01-06-2018, 12:15 AM
For me it's Curry, Jordan, Shaq in that order.

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JAZZNC
01-06-2018, 12:18 AM
For me it's Curry, Jordan, Shaq in that order.

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God, you're pathetic with the homerism.

lol, please
01-06-2018, 12:52 AM
God, you're pathetic with the homerism.Kerr himself who has played with Jordan had said Curry impacts the game more than Jordan ever did.

Taking that at face value, and looking at his best production, I'd take curry over anyone else. A close second is Jordan and Shaq is right behind them both.

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ewing
01-06-2018, 01:17 AM
Kerr himself who has played with Jordan had said Curry impacts the game more than Jordan ever did.

Taking that at face value, and looking at his best production, I'd take curry over anyone else. A close second is Jordan and Shaq is right behind them both.

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What about Draymond?


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Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2018, 03:18 AM
Demar.

Chronz
01-06-2018, 09:57 AM
Shaq or Wilt

Heediot
01-06-2018, 10:18 AM
Kerr himself who has played with Jordan had said Curry impacts the game more than Jordan ever did.

Taking that at face value, and looking at his best production, I'd take curry over anyone else. A close second is Jordan and Shaq is right behind them both.

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**** what Kerr said. Outside of delusional GS fans, people would rather face Curry over Jordan in a NBA finals and that's that. There are 2 sides to Basketball, Jordan is miles ahead in that department too.

GREATNESS ONE
01-06-2018, 01:02 PM
LBJ would have a great argument for this spot but if weíre drafting? Iíll take the most dominant and unstoppable player of all time 01 Shaq Daddy.

Chronz
01-06-2018, 01:51 PM
**** what Kerr said. Outside of delusional GS fans, people would rather face Curry over Jordan in a NBA finals and that's that. There are 2 sides to Basketball, Jordan is miles ahead in that department too.

Kerr didn't say that. He's ignoring the context and making a sweeping generalization. In other words, lolplz gon lolplz.

valade16
01-06-2018, 03:48 PM
Wondering if I should make it so people can vote for multiple players if they think theyíre equal, but Iím worried that could mess up the voting if people vote for like 8 different players lol

mngopher35
01-06-2018, 03:57 PM
I'm leaning Lebron here but have seen far less of Wilt than anyone else I'm considering (and KAJ is way behind the amount of I have watched Shaq/Lebron).

Chronz
01-06-2018, 04:27 PM
Not seeing why Bron is this perfect selection when he lacks a perfect season. He's never had that truly indomitable season ffs. He's got the Kobe longevity argument on steroids but he's no apex predator imo

mngopher35
01-06-2018, 04:47 PM
Not seeing why Bron is this perfect selection when he lacks a perfect season. He's never had that truly indomitable season ffs. He's got the Kobe longevity argument on steroids but he's no apex predator imo

Well first of all I am not sure that we are judging just one season of play here but overall ability of a player and who you would take.

I will focus on Shaq since you think he or Wilt should be going here. I am not sure but will use 2000 as a basic look at their best statistical years for basics https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=LeBron+James&player_id1_select=LeBron+James&player_id1=jamesle01&y1=2012&player_id2_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2=onealsh01&y2=2000

Now Lebron had MVP, FMVP that season just like Shaq did and he clearly matches up statistically. It is the same post season where Bird made that comment about Lebrons run I believe. Game 6 vs. Boston was the epic individual moment even if was are talking about including single moments to the single season. Even if we were saying you have to pick one defining season and match it up (whether accolades, stats, visual impact, key moments etc) he would have a case. If we narrow it down further than just one season to judge best and look at say a finals performance (or best key series since SA for LA) I think 2016 does him more favors than Shaq with those final 5 games/ending.

I mean I already stated I think Shaq is in this tier don't get me wrong but what is the big argument for him over Lebron that is so obvious? Right now I see it as two very dominant players who each have arguments depending on what you value.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2018, 05:34 PM
Not seeing why Bron is this perfect selection when he lacks a perfect season. He's never had that truly indomitable season ffs. He's got the Kobe longevity argument on steroids but he's no apex predator imo

2013????????

WaDe03
01-06-2018, 05:51 PM
2013????????

Yea was going to say this. MVP, championship, Finals MVP, and even shot like 41% from 3.

I know everyone is impressed with current LeBron and skill wise he may be better but 2013 LeBron is easily the best LeBron we've ever seen.

valade16
01-06-2018, 07:21 PM
To add to the idea of not having a "dominant" year, outside 2013, in 2009 he had one of the most dominant years in NBA history by every measure except team success (and as his stats indicate, that certainly wasn't his fault).

Bron posted 28 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG, 1.7 SPG on a ridiculous 31.7 PER, .318 WS/48 and 11.6 VORP in the regular season as the Cavs won 66 games.

In the playoffs the Cavs swept the Pistons and Hawks with LeBron averaging over 32 PPG in both series. The Cavs lost in the ECF to the red hot Magic 2-4, but in that series Bron put up:

38.5 PPG, 8 APG, 8 RPG on a .59 TS%.

For the playoffs he put up 35 PPG, 9 RPG, 7 APG on an absurd 37.4 PER, .399 WS/48 and a 18.2 BPM. Statistically, Shaq never had an individual postseason that was even close to that year from LeBron.

I think it's safe to assume if Bron had anyone even close to Kobe's caliber the Cavs would have beaten the Magic that year.

lol, please
01-06-2018, 07:32 PM
Kerr didn't say that. He's ignoring the context and making a sweeping generalization. In other words, lolplz gon lolplz.He didn't say it verbatim but it's basically what he said.

He was asked about the best ever iirc and he said something like - I don't know how you would measure that, but I've played around a lot of guys and I've never seen anyone impact the game like curry before. If that's your barometer he's #1

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mrblisterdundee
01-06-2018, 10:52 PM
**** what Kerr said. Outside of delusional GS fans, people would rather face Curry over Jordan in a NBA finals and that's that. There are 2 sides to Basketball, Jordan is miles ahead in that department too.

Jordan would lock Curry the **** down.

JAZZNC
01-06-2018, 11:04 PM
Jordan would lock Curry the **** down.

Thank you. That **** would be hilarious.

WaDe03
01-06-2018, 11:08 PM
I'm about to go the **** off if y'all keep talking this ******** about Curry. I'm too drunk for this!

tredigs
01-06-2018, 11:51 PM
I'm about to go the **** off if y'all keep talking this ******** about Curry. I'm too drunk for this!

How did his 45 in 3 quarters make you feel tonight?

WaDe03
01-07-2018, 12:02 AM
How did his 45 in 3 quarters make you feel tonight?

I was pissed he didn't play in the 4th because I wanted to see 60

tredigs
01-07-2018, 12:09 AM
I was pissed he didn't play in the 4th because I wanted to see 60

Unfortunately Curry crushes competition too easily to post 60+.

Giannis94
01-07-2018, 12:11 AM
Giannis. And I'm not joking

IKnowHoops
01-07-2018, 12:39 AM
To add to the idea of not having a "dominant" year, outside 2013, in 2009 he had one of the most dominant years in NBA history by every measure except team success (and as his stats indicate, that certainly wasn't his fault).

Bron posted 28 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG, 1.7 SPG on a ridiculous 31.7 PER, .318 WS/48 and 11.6 VORP in the regular season as the Cavs won 66 games.

In the playoffs the Cavs swept the Pistons and Hawks with LeBron averaging over 32 PPG in both series. The Cavs lost in the ECF to the red hot Magic 2-4, but in that series Bron put up:

38.5 PPG, 8 APG, 8 RPG on a .59 TS%.

For the playoffs he put up 35 PPG, 9 RPG, 7 APG on an absurd 37.4 PER, .399 WS/48 and a 18.2 BPM. Statistically, Shaq never had an individual postseason that was even close to that year from LeBron.

I think it's safe to assume if Bron had anyone even close to Kobe's caliber the Cavs would have beaten the Magic that year.

Yeah Chronz WTF? Dude has like 4-5 perfect years.

More-Than-Most
01-07-2018, 12:51 AM
LBJ would have a great argument for this spot but if weíre drafting? Iíll take the most dominant and unstoppable player of all time 01 Shaq Daddy.

I would take Shaq over everyone in any league outside of the current one and it wouldnt be close...... Id take shaq Over Jordan in prime mode and Lebron but this Era might actually limit would Shaq could do... Lebron and Jordan could play in any era where is SHAQ could play in any era up until this past 5 years or so... The game is just way to fast and reliant on a center and players who space the floor.... SHAQ would still be damn good but his impact in todays game wouldnt be the same as what it was during his prime.

Bostonjorge
01-07-2018, 05:45 AM
Lebrons best years are like Durantís years now. They mean nothing because we donít count coward years. So Lebron in 2010 is the best we seen form him. Minus the quitting against a over the hill or non elite year form KG lead team.

KnicksorBust
01-07-2018, 09:32 AM
Tough. I dont feel strongly that Kareem/Wilt/Lebron has the edge. Juudging Wilt vs Shaq is impossible. Top 5 has to be those guys though. On my phone can someone tell me the vote.

dhopisthename
01-07-2018, 03:35 PM
Lebron 6 kareem 2

I think that choosing between wilt, Kareem, and Lebron is so hard. wilt and kareem were more dominant in their era, but the talent level today is way higher. I have shaq a notch below because he was a fatty who only showed up certain years.

mrblisterdundee
01-07-2018, 04:02 PM
I would take Shaq over everyone in any league outside of the current one and it wouldnt be close...... Id take shaq Over Jordan in prime mode and Lebron but this Era might actually limit would Shaq could do... Lebron and Jordan could play in any era where is SHAQ could play in any era up until this past 5 years or so... The game is just way to fast and reliant on a center and players who space the floor.... SHAQ would still be damn good but his impact in todays game wouldnt be the same as what it was during his prime.

His floor would be an offensively better version of DeAndre Jordan.

Chronz
01-07-2018, 04:16 PM
His floor would be an offensively better version of DeAndre Jordan.

Lol you guys are ridiculous. Nobody today could contain Shaq. That's like saying Amare would less effective today despite helping kick start this era, young Shaqs floor is a 7ft Amare with high bb iq. He evolved his game based upon the standards of the time. Think of it this way, look at Shaqs final season and realize he was producing at a higher level (per minute) than DJ when he was healthy, with him in the lineup the Celtics were finally an elite offensive team. That's an old Shaq producing at an all star level, he was feasting on dump offs and lack of primary attention, similar to DJ. What's a prime Shaq gonna do in an era where dribble penetration is so easy. The NBA made rules to help offset his dominance, it influenced the rest of the league more imo.

Shaq couldn't be defended by twigs, small ball would be reversed quite abit just with his presence

FlashBolt
01-07-2018, 04:29 PM
Taking KAJ here. LeBron surpasses him in a few more years but impossible to ignore that length of a career and still being productive.

LeBron is an easy #3 for me.

I don't see a reason to entertain Wilt or Shaq. Shaq was dominant but only got four rings (one of which he was sidekick). His lack in maintaining his diet contributes to his lower ranking. As for Wilt, well, put up insane numbers and was clearly a specimen but was by all accounts, not a good leader and wasn't as dedicated to winning.

LeBron just has the advantage of some of these guys in rings, being the leader of every single one of them, stats, accomplishments. Very well rounded and unquestionable career.

FlashBolt
01-07-2018, 04:34 PM
Lol you guys are ridiculous. Nobody today could contain Shaq. That's like saying Amare would less effective today despite helping kick start this era, young Shaqs floor is a 7ft Amare with high bb iq. He evolved his game based upon the standards of the time. Think of it this way, look at Shaqs final season and realize he was producing at a higher level (per minute) than DJ when he was healthy, with him in the lineup the Celtics were finally an elite offensive team. That's an old Shaq producing at an all star level, he was feasting on dump offs and lack of primary attention, similar to DJ. What's a prime Shaq gonna do in an era where dribble penetration is so easy. The NBA made rules to help offset his dominance, it influenced the rest of the league more imo.

Shaq couldn't be defended by twigs, small ball would be reversed quite abit just with his presence

If Z-Bo could still pound the paint today and drop 15, Shaq would easily drop 30. It's sad he couldn't take his career a bit more serious. Bill Simmons summed his career up pretty well. Could've been a 4.0 student in college but would rather have fun and graduate with a 3.5.

KnicksorBust
01-07-2018, 04:39 PM
Taking KAJ here. LeBron surpasses him in a few more years but impossible to ignore that length of a career and still being productive.

LeBron is an easy #3 for me.

I don't see a reason to entertain Wilt or Shaq. Shaq was dominant but only got four rings (one of which he was sidekick). His lack in maintaining his diet contributes to his lower ranking. As for Wilt, well, put up insane numbers and was clearly a specimen but was by all accounts, not a good leader and wasn't as dedicated to winning.

LeBron just has the advantage of some of these guys in rings, being the leader of every single one of them, stats, accomplishments. Very well rounded and unquestionable career.

Read the OP

lol, please
01-07-2018, 04:39 PM
Lol you guys are ridiculous. Nobody today could contain Shaq. That's like saying Amare would less effective today despite helping kick start this era, young Shaqs floor is a 7ft Amare with high bb iq. He evolved his game based upon the standards of the time. Think of it this way, look at Shaqs final season and realize he was producing at a higher level (per minute) than DJ when he was healthy, with him in the lineup the Celtics were finally an elite offensive team. That's an old Shaq producing at an all star level, he was feasting on dump offs and lack of primary attention, similar to DJ. What's a prime Shaq gonna do in an era where dribble penetration is so easy. The NBA made rules to help offset his dominance, it influenced the rest of the league more imo.

Shaq couldn't be defended by twigs, small ball would be reversed quite abit just with his presenceI agree with this. I put Curry and Jordan above Shaw here but really Shaq isn't a wrong answer and he would dominate this era above all eras honestly. This is such a weak era for centers and Shaq feasted on ATGs.

I've said it before, imagine a prime Shaq on this Warriors team lol.

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Chronz
01-07-2018, 04:42 PM
Taking KAJ here. LeBron surpasses him in a few more years but impossible to ignore that length of a career and still being productive.

LeBron is an easy #3 for me.

I don't see a reason to entertain Wilt or Shaq. Shaq was dominant but only got four rings (one of which he was sidekick). His lack in maintaining his diet contributes to his lower ranking. As for Wilt, well, put up insane numbers and was clearly a specimen but was by all accounts, not a good leader and wasn't as dedicated to winning.

LeBron just has the advantage of some of these guys in rings, being the leader of every single one of them, stats, accomplishments. Very well rounded and unquestionable career.
It's really hard for you to get over your fetish for longevity but the thread asks that of us. It's not an aggregate of seasons but an idea of their dominance at their best. Basically this is a peak run argument focusing on talent, skill and impact I would say

valade16
01-07-2018, 04:46 PM
Taking KAJ here. LeBron surpasses him in a few more years but impossible to ignore that length of a career and still being productive.

LeBron is an easy #3 for me.

I don't see a reason to entertain Wilt or Shaq. Shaq was dominant but only got four rings (one of which he was sidekick). His lack in maintaining his diet contributes to his lower ranking. As for Wilt, well, put up insane numbers and was clearly a specimen but was by all accounts, not a good leader and wasn't as dedicated to winning.

LeBron just has the advantage of some of these guys in rings, being the leader of every single one of them, stats, accomplishments. Very well rounded and unquestionable career.

Did you read the criteria? This is not a list of comparing players careers, it is simply who you think is the better player if they were at their peak and being drafted for a season.

Chronz
01-07-2018, 04:48 PM
If Z-Bo could still pound the paint today and drop 15, Shaq would easily drop 30. It's sad he couldn't take his career a bit more serious. Bill Simmons summed his career up pretty well. Could've been a 4.0 student in college but would rather have fun and graduate with a 3.5.

You'd be surprised how true that holds for most greats. Not everyone is built with a maniacal drive and you could argue that it can also be damaging to a players legacy in the wrong circumstance. Like Larry Bird arguably didn't get the most out of his talent either. Still a goat candidate

FlashBolt
01-07-2018, 04:50 PM
Read the OP

Oh, got it. Still taking LeBron. Was Shaq really more dominant than LeBron's peak? He might be individually but LeBron could do everything at an elite level. Shaq wasn't a great rebounder or defender, just an impossible beast of a player who could score anywhere. But he lacked FT shooting and couldn't spread the floor whatsoever. So much is made about Shaq's ability to dominate the post and it's true. But LeBron's ability to attack the basket is sometimes just as effective. They both shoot just about the same FG% 0-3 ft from the basket. In a case like this where two historic level players at their peak, you take the one who can do more and LeBron is the answer.

Chronz
01-07-2018, 04:55 PM
Well first of all I am not sure that we are judging just one season of play here but overall ability of a player and who you would take.

I will focus on Shaq since you think he or Wilt should be going here. I am not sure but will use 2000 as a basic look at their best statistical years for basics https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=LeBron+James&player_id1_select=LeBron+James&player_id1=jamesle01&y1=2012&player_id2_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2=onealsh01&y2=2000

Now Lebron had MVP, FMVP that season just like Shaq did and he clearly matches up statistically. It is the same post season where Bird made that comment about Lebrons run I believe. Game 6 vs. Boston was the epic individual moment even if was are talking about including single moments to the single season. Even if we were saying you have to pick one defining season and match it up (whether accolades, stats, visual impact, key moments etc) he would have a case. If we narrow it down further than just one season to judge best and look at say a finals performance (or best key series since SA for LA) I think 2016 does him more favors than Shaq with those final 5 games/ending.

I mean I already stated I think Shaq is in this tier don't get me wrong but what is the big argument for him over Lebron that is so obvious? Right now I see it as two very dominant players who each have arguments depending on what you value.

We're not suppose to value mvp tho. I'm not that impressed with besting an old Celtics team compared to how Shaq throttled the 01 loffs and a 3 peet vs stronger comp imo. Like compare their production vs the best teams they've played against, are they really better than what Shaq did to DPOY and swarming defenses? Bron has his GS victory but I wouldn't call that peak Bron, would you?

Chronz
01-07-2018, 05:00 PM
2013????????
Prolly his best. A decent choice but Shaq slayed better teams and was harder to game plan for imo

FlashBolt
01-07-2018, 05:07 PM
Yeah Chronz WTF? Dude has like 4-5 perfect years.

I've never heard anyone try to knock LeBron for his dominating seasons. He's had years where he's clearly been just as good as any other historic-NBA years.

FlashBolt
01-07-2018, 05:10 PM
This should be another tier example. It's a preference of what you prefer. No wrong or right answer but my preference goes towards the guy who just does more and can adapt to any team.

mngopher35
01-07-2018, 05:14 PM
Well first of all I am not sure that we are judging just one season of play here but overall ability of a player and who you would take.

I will focus on Shaq since you think he or Wilt should be going here. I am not sure but will use 2000 as a basic look at their best statistical years for basics https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=LeBron+James&player_id1_select=LeBron+James&player_id1=jamesle01&y1=2012&player_id2_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2=onealsh01&y2=2000

Now Lebron had MVP, FMVP that season just like Shaq did and he clearly matches up statistically. It is the same post season where Bird made that comment about Lebrons run I believe. Game 6 vs. Boston was the epic individual moment even if was are talking about including single moments to the single season. Even if we were saying you have to pick one defining season and match it up (whether accolades, stats, visual impact, key moments etc) he would have a case. If we narrow it down further than just one season to judge best and look at say a finals performance (or best key series since SA for LA) I think 2016 does him more favors than Shaq with those final 5 games/ending.

I mean I already stated I think Shaq is in this tier don't get me wrong but what is the big argument for him over Lebron that is so obvious? Right now I see it as two very dominant players who each have arguments depending on what you value.

We're not suppose to value mvp tho. I'm not that impressed with besting an old Celtics team compared to how Shaq throttled the 01 loffs and a 3 peet vs stronger comp imo. Like compare their production vs the best teams they've played against, are they really better than what Shaq did to DPOY and swarming defenses? Bron has his GS victory but I wouldn't call that peak Bron, would you?

Well I was focusing on a single season since you used that as reasoning haha.
I think 12/13 for lebron is close to 00/01 for shaq at the least.

If a past his peak lebron put up a better top level performance than peak shaq doesn't that help lebrons case of that's how you wanna judge?

I am fine looking at this from multiple angles, I think lebron has a good case most ways you view this.

valade16
01-07-2018, 06:24 PM
This should be another tier example. It's a preference of what you prefer. No wrong or right answer but my preference goes towards the guy who just does more and can adapt to any team.

It seems as if people mostly agree the top 5 are (in some order) MJ, Bron, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt. But it will be interesting to see if they actually end up the top 5.

KnicksorBust
01-07-2018, 08:39 PM
This should be another tier example. It's a preference of what you prefer. No wrong or right answer but my preference goes towards the guy who just does more and can adapt to any team.

It seems as if people mostly agree the top 5 are (in some order) MJ, Bron, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt. But it will be interesting to see if they actually end up the top 5.

I worry about funny business with kareem

valade16
01-08-2018, 01:36 AM
I worry about funny business with kareem

Maybe but I think he'll definitely be Top 5, he's already getting some votes at least.

GREATNESS ONE
01-08-2018, 01:51 AM
Lol you guys are ridiculous. Nobody today could contain Shaq. That's like saying Amare would less effective today despite helping kick start this era, young Shaqs floor is a 7ft Amare with high bb iq. He evolved his game based upon the standards of the time. Think of it this way, look at Shaqs final season and realize he was producing at a higher level (per minute) than DJ when he was healthy, with him in the lineup the Celtics were finally an elite offensive team. That's an old Shaq producing at an all star level, he was feasting on dump offs and lack of primary attention, similar to DJ. What's a prime Shaq gonna do in an era where dribble penetration is so easy. The NBA made rules to help offset his dominance, it influenced the rest of the league more imo.

Shaq couldn't be defended by twigs, small ball would be reversed quite abit just with his presence

Thank you! Prime Shaq would destroy this small ball nonsense! Lolz! Just the thought of Draymond Green trying to guard Prime 01 Shaq is hilarious.

KnicksorBust
01-08-2018, 12:50 PM
I copped out and went with LeBron so I could have more time to debate myself on KAJ vs. Shaq vs. Wilt.

Wilt with 0 votes. :speechless:

JAZZNC
01-08-2018, 02:28 PM
I copped out and went with LeBron so I could have more time to debate myself on KAJ vs. Shaq vs. Wilt.

Wilt with 0 votes. :speechless:

Obviously europeanpilgrim hasn't visited the thread yet.

The run on the 3 dominant centers is going to make for some great discussion.

LeonFSU
01-08-2018, 03:55 PM
Well I was focusing on a single season since you used that as reasoning haha.
I think 12/13 for lebron is close to 00/01 for shaq at the least.

If a past his peak lebron put up a better top level performance than peak shaq doesn't that help lebrons case of that's how you wanna judge?

I am fine looking at this from multiple angles, I think lebron has a good case most ways you view this.

Lebron didn't though.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure I understand what you're saying in the bolded part. I thought you were saying Lebron's winning finals performance against the Warriors was better than any of Shaq's finals wins, but I'm not sure if that's the case.

mightybosstone
01-08-2018, 04:04 PM
Going with Lebron here. If we didn't take era into consideration, I think other guys would have a chance, but given Lebron's ridiculous athleticism and talent and that he's dominated in arguably the most talented era in basketball's history, he's an easy pick for me.

mngopher35
01-08-2018, 04:39 PM
Lebron didn't though.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure I understand what you're saying in the bolded part. I thought you were saying Lebron's winning finals performance against the Warriors was better than any of Shaq's finals wins, but I'm not sure if that's the case.

He specifically mentioned the GS series but that it isn't really his peak as if that matters. If that series is more impressive to someone it doesn't knock it down just because it wasn't his peak (and imo that's more impressive). I think it depends how you are judging things on "better".

I don't think Shaq beat a team at the level of GS in the same fashion personally though. I think many times the finals opponents were clearly weaker and you could argue Western team was the hardest competition. In 01 which is a year regularly mentioned for Shaq SA was the best team they beat imo and Kobe fans will definitely let you know who stepped up in that series production wise. Overall it depends but my point with that statement was that if you don't consider 2016 Lebron's peak that shouldn't change how that performance is viewed (it would still count in a conversation of most impressive win).

LeonFSU
01-09-2018, 12:36 PM
He specifically mentioned the GS series but that it isn't really his peak as if that matters. If that series is more impressive to someone it doesn't knock it down just because it wasn't his peak (and imo that's more impressive). I think it depends how you are judging things on "better".

I don't think Shaq beat a team at the level of GS in the same fashion personally though. I think many times the finals opponents were clearly weaker and you could argue Western team was the hardest competition. In 01 which is a year regularly mentioned for Shaq SA was the best team they beat imo and Kobe fans will definitely let you know who stepped up in that series production wise. Overall it depends but my point with that statement was that if you don't consider 2016 Lebron's peak that shouldn't change how that performance is viewed (it would still count in a conversation of most impressive win).

Okay thanks for clarifying. I thought you were strictly comparing Shaq and Lebron's performances in the finals.

FlashBolt
01-09-2018, 01:21 PM
Lebron didn't though.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure I understand what you're saying in the bolded part. I thought you were saying Lebron's winning finals performance against the Warriors was better than any of Shaq's finals wins, but I'm not sure if that's the case.

2016 Finals win meant more than any of Shaq's Finals wins. Those were total snoozers. Nets? C'mon.

GREATNESS ONE
01-09-2018, 02:38 PM
2016 Finals win meant more than any of Shaq's Finals wins. Those were total snoozers. Nets? C'mon.

The Finals were the WCF games...

JordansBulls
01-13-2018, 10:07 PM
A lot of different arguments for this spot but why no Bill Russell here?

Shammyguy3
01-14-2018, 02:51 PM
A lot of different arguments for this spot but why no Bill Russell here?

Because he's not as good as the other players