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View Full Version : Revisiting the Laker/Heat 2004 Megatrade



HandsOnTheWheel
12-18-2017, 02:48 AM
Thinking back to the trade that sent Shaq from the Lakers to the Heat for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Eddy Grant; the question is, is who do you think won that megatrade 12 years later?

Butler and Grant didn't last long and the Lakers did have some rough years after said trade, but eventually Odom went on to help the Lakers win back to back titles years down the road in 2009-2010. To compartmentalize, would keeping Shaq be more beneficial in the long run, or was the wedge between Shaq and Kobe too detrimental to the Lakers going forward to keep together?

The Heat went on to not only win their first title with Shaq and discover an all-time gem in D Wade, but also laid the groundwork for building the super team years later thus leading to 2 more titles with Lebron, Bosh and co. They didn't have Shaq for long and eventually flipped him for Shawn Marion who turned into Jermaine O'Neal who then left to the Celtics that FA, but the impact of the trade for Shaq simply can't be overlooked, however brief.

Knowing now what you know about the two franchises since the trade, who ultimately fared better in retrospect from that trade? Thoughts/opinions?

LaVar Ball
12-18-2017, 02:52 AM
Thinking back to the trade that sent Shaq from the Lakers to the Heat for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Eddy Grant; the question is, is who do you think won that megatrade 12 years later?

Butler and Grant didn't last long and the Lakers did have some rough years after said trade, but eventually Odom went on to help the Lakers win back to back titles years down the road in 2009-2010. To compartmentalize, would keeping Shaq be more beneficial in the long run, or was the wedge between Shaq and Kobe too detrimental to the Lakers going forward to keep together?

The Heat went on to not only win their first title with Shaq and discover an all-time gem in D Wade, but also laid the groundwork for building the super team years later thus leading to 2 more titles with Lebron, Bosh and co. They didn't have Shaq for long and eventually flipped him for Shawn Marion who turned into Jermaine O'Neal who then left to the Celtics that FA, but the impact of the trade for Shaq simply can't be overlooked, however brief.

Knowing now what you know about the two franchises since the trade, who ultimately fared better in retrospect from that trade? Thoughts/opinions?


Trading Shaq essentially got the Lakers a return of Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard in the end lol.


It was Shaq for Butler, Odom, Grant and a first rounder. Grant was amnestied, Butler was traded to Washington for KWAMAY BROWN! Who was then 3 years later packaged with Javaris Crittenton, Aaron Mckie and the rights to Marc Gasol to Memphis for Pau Gasol.

That first rounder became the Lakers 10th pick in the 2005 draft, Andrew Bynum, who was then involved in the summer of 2012 4-team trade between Orlando, Philly and Denver to acquire Dwight Howard.


Howard left in the summer of 2013 via free agency to Houston. (ATL and now Charlotte)

Gasol left in the summer of 2014 via free agency to Chicago. (now San Antonio)

Odom was traded in the 2011 offseason to Dallas and then to the Clippers (failed tryout with the Knicks and retired)

HandsOnTheWheel
12-18-2017, 02:55 AM
Trading Shaq essentially got the Lakers a return of Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard in the end lol.


It was Shaq for Butler, Odom, Grant and a first rounder. Grant was amnestied, Butler was traded to Washington for KWAMAY BROWN! Who was then 3 years later packaged with Javaris Crittenton, Aaron Mckie and the rights to Marc Gasol to Memphis for Pau Gasol.

That first rounder became the Lakers 10th pick in the 2005 draft, Andrew Bynum, who was then involved in the summer of 2012 4-team trade between Orlando, Philly and Denver to acquire Dwight Howard.


Howard left in the summer of 2013 via free agency to Houston. (ATL and now Charlotte)

Gasol left in the summer of 2014 via free agency to Chicago. (now San Antonio)

Odom was traded in the 2011 offseason to Dallas and then to the Clippers (failed tryout with the Knicks and retired)
Forgot all that Thanks lol.

D-Leethal
12-18-2017, 10:17 AM
Both team won titles with the pieces they got so I think both teams are happy.

Vinylman
12-18-2017, 11:01 AM
both teams...


obviously

WaDe03
12-18-2017, 11:31 AM
All players that stayed with the Heat or Lakers were carried to a championship on the back of a top 3 SG ever so it worked out good for everyone.

mightybosstone
12-18-2017, 12:53 PM
If you look at the indirect implications of this deal, which (as the previous poster pointed out) eventually led the the Lakers getting Bynum and Pau, in addition to Odom, you could make a case for the Lakers actually getting the better end of the deal here. But if we take it at face value and just the pieces that were moved in this trade, the Heat still won in my book. They got a top 10 all-time player nearing the end of his prime, which helped net them the franchise's first championship and helped catapult them into one of the league's elite franchises for the next decade.

But compared to what a lot of fans thought at the time, the deal wasn't nearly the disaster many thought it might have been. Odom was a huge piece of those two championship teams with Kobe and Gasol.

LeonFSU
12-18-2017, 06:38 PM
All players that stayed with the Heat or Lakers were carried to a championship on the back of a top 3 SG ever so it worked out good for everyone.

If you're implying Wade carried Shaq to a championship, then no. Wade was clearly the best player in the finals, but he had no chance to get there without Shaq.

WaDe03
12-18-2017, 06:52 PM
If you're implying Wade carried Shaq to a championship, then no. Wade was clearly the best player in the finals, but he had no chance to get there without Shaq.

Carried that entire team in the finals.

Chronz
12-18-2017, 11:50 PM
Thinking back to the trade that sent Shaq from the Lakers to the Heat for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Eddy Grant; the question is, is who do you think won that megatrade 12 years later?

Butler and Grant didn't last long and the Lakers did have some rough years after said trade, but eventually Odom went on to help the Lakers win back to back titles years down the road in 2009-2010. To compartmentalize, would keeping Shaq be more beneficial in the long run, or was the wedge between Shaq and Kobe too detrimental to the Lakers going forward to keep together?

The Heat went on to not only win their first title with Shaq and discover an all-time gem in D Wade, but also laid the groundwork for building the super team years later thus leading to 2 more titles with Lebron, Bosh and co. They didn't have Shaq for long and eventually flipped him for Shawn Marion who turned into Jermaine O'Neal who then left to the Celtics that FA, but the impact of the trade for Shaq simply can't be overlooked, however brief.

Knowing now what you know about the two franchises since the trade, who ultimately fared better in retrospect from that trade? Thoughts/opinions?

Heat won the trade, Lakers squandered some of Kobe's finest days as a direct result of locking themselves into the ghost of Brian Grant. When this trade happened I assured LA they would be done for the foreseeable future aka the next 3 years. Nobody saw the Gasol miracle coming, otherwise Kobe wouldv'e retired in Chicago or something. I disagree that this trade necessitated the moves for Gasol, the asking price was low enough for LA to get that deal done with any stiff making Kwame Brown money. That trade happened like years later after several other variables played out.

As for if it would have been worth it to just keep Shaq, well, that depends on if you think the Lakers should have wasted some of Kobes prime years in order to build the assets/talent to eventually contend or if they could have transitioned into the different phases of contention smoothly. Back then I made the argument that the Lakers would've been better off just letting Shaq's contract expire or simply releasing him than tying themselves to Brian Grant's cap crippling deal.

So just for kicks, lets pretend Kobe knew he wasn't good enough to carry trash into the playoffs and that Shaq wasn't money hungry enough to want to leave to Miami. Lets say they want to win one for Karl Malone, since he would have returned to LA had they simply retained Shaq. GP doesn't get traded so the whole gang comes back.

Theres only 2 problems major problems IMO. Kobe's peak run doesn't kick in until 06 and thats right around when Shaq ceased being a superstar, so if Kobe+Shaq couldn't win before, why would they after? You could argue Kobe never leaving the triangle accelerates his growth and understanding as a floor general. As for Shaq, had he stayed in LA, I firmly believe he wouldnt have felt the need to make a run for the MVP during an age when he should have been starting the Duncan rest regimen, one he later agreed to during his final All-Star campaign in Phoenix. So lets say Shaq continues to shed the weight since it's what he had already been doing (Laker fans forget this) and we give him 1 extra year of a decent run left in him, that gives LA a 3 year window, 1 with an MVP caliber Shaq and 2 with a 06 level Shaq that won a title with Wade with Kobe entering his absolute apex in those final 2 years.
Adding some Shaq recruits and possible targets in FA

GP/Damon Jones
Kareem Rush/Fisher/Sasha
Kobe/Deavon George/Walton
Karl Malone/Brian Cook
Shaq/Doleac

Phil talked about putting Kobe at the 3 and developing Rush at the 2 if he had gotten to return so thats definitely the direction they take, Cook and Doleac are basically spacers with Walton running the 2nd unit.

Doesn't look too formidible but keep in mind that Detroit lost some depth from the year prior and the rule changes made it harder to contain perimeter players like they had before.

Im thinking they are better off just rebuilding how they did, just wish they could have done it without wasting Kobe's best years. Would've loved to see Shaq give Kobe the reigns eventually. Wish both had the patience.

LA4life24/8
12-19-2017, 01:17 PM
The heat won it in the immediate future obviously, They got Shaq. But what it led to for the lakers they won it for the future. I think it worked out pretty well for both franchises and wasnt so lopsided as it first appeared.

LOb0
12-19-2017, 01:48 PM
The Heat. I feel that trade/title made them a legitimate top tier destination for FAs trying to win a title. If that trade doesn't go down I don't think we see Bron go there. It put Miami on the map.

Tg11
12-19-2017, 02:01 PM
Yes it did put Miami on the map but to say that Wade carried that team on his back he didn't carry that team in the finals it was a team effort

Shaq contributed his fair share just like Wade did...yeah Wade may have done more but Shaq got them to the finals that year

If Shaq had never joined the Heat...2006 I honestly believe the Mavs would have won the title that year

Lakers in the long run in the future I would say won that trade they went on to win 2 titles in 2009 and 2010 so furthermore in the end it worked out well for both teams really

WaDe03
12-19-2017, 02:30 PM
Yes it did put Miami on the map but to say that Wade carried that team on his back he didn't carry that team in the finals it was a team effort

Shaq contributed his fair share just like Wade did...yeah Wade may have done more but Shaq got them to the finals that year

If Shaq had never joined the Heat...2006 I honestly believe the Mavs would have won the title that year

Lakers in the long run in the future I would say won that trade they went on to win 2 titles in 2009 and 2010 so furthermore in the end it worked out well for both teams really

Shaqs finals averages in 2006 were what he averaged when he was washed up in Cleveland lol. I wouldn't call that a fair share.

Tg11
12-19-2017, 02:34 PM
Yeah but at the same time he did help Wade didn't he not? If Shaq were not there if he were a non factor if he hadn't joined up with Wade in Miami, do you honestly believe Wade and the Heat would have won the title that year? Do you really think that they would have gotten by Dirk and company in the Finals? Do you think that they would have made it as far as they did if Shaq weren't on that squad?

WaDe03
12-19-2017, 03:05 PM
Yeah but at the same time he did help Wade didn't he not? If Shaq were not there if he were a non factor if he hadn't joined up with Wade in Miami, do you honestly believe Wade and the Heat would have won the title that year? Do you really think that they would have gotten by Dirk and company in the Finals? Do you think that they would have made it as far as they did if Shaq weren't on that squad?

Shaq helped, Wade carried.

Chronz
12-19-2017, 04:27 PM
Shaqs finals averages in 2006 were what he averaged when he was washed up in Cleveland lol. I wouldn't call that a fair share.
If he got that kind of defensive attention in Cleveland, Bron would have a title

THE_LOGO
12-19-2017, 07:24 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the Lakers got raped. You can't count who was traded and what we got afterwards. All that matters was Brian Grant was garbage. Lost Butler in a year. Odom was nice but ultimately a sub for a championship team. Shaq, in the meantime, got a ring in Miami. There's no way Miami wins without that trade.