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View Full Version : What if: OKC kept Harden and not RWB?



FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 11:17 PM
Seeing Harden play alongside CP3 and it working out beautifully has knocked any doubts about his ability to play with other stars. Meanwhile, RWB has struggled adjusting. Where would OKC be right now if we chose Harden over RWB? Would we have a championship by now?

tp13baby
12-13-2017, 11:18 PM
I donít know about a championship and no championship means Durant runs.

Forreal though KD and Harden would run so smoothly.

TrueFan420
12-13-2017, 11:26 PM
Seeing Harden play alongside CP3 and it working out beautifully has knocked any doubts about his ability to play with other stars. Meanwhile, RWB has struggled adjusting. Where would OKC be right now if we chose Harden over RWB? Would we have a championship by now?
KD never leaves and you may have attracted a legit coach not Billy ISO ball Donovan. Team may or may not have won a championship but you'd be a threat every year.

Htownballa1622
12-13-2017, 11:53 PM
Championship

Scoots
12-13-2017, 11:54 PM
KD never leaves and you may have attracted a legit coach not Billy ISO ball Donovan. Team may or may not have won a championship but you'd be a threat every year.

Do you think the ISO is more about Donovan or the players he's got?

Meth
12-14-2017, 01:52 AM
Harden and KD (and whatever players the team would have netted with trading Westbrook) would have been a title threat every year. I think they would have taken down LeBron's Miami team, and probably would have beaten the West including that Spurs team during that span. 2016-current with prime Harden and KD? Man...

HandsOnTheWheel
12-14-2017, 02:33 AM
As much credit as OKC's FO has got over recent years, they've made certain decisions that has cost the franchise immensely.

As far as the thread, they would have easily had multiple titles by now had they kept Harden instead of WB IMO.

Tg11
12-14-2017, 09:34 AM
If they had kept Harden and traded Westbrook I think the results would still be the same...KD would have left to go to the Warriors regardless

bloomis1307
12-14-2017, 09:54 AM
Adams / Durant / Roberson / Harden / Reggie Jackson?

Just think about what their team would have looked like today.....granted they could have added a better PG in the westbrook trade but when you think about what they got for harden (lamb martin and some picks) they essentially got no long term value in return. Even still that is a nice core of players and they would have been able to build it into a stronger team over the eyars

Dade County
12-14-2017, 10:27 AM
They should have never traded Harden... They would have all won a ring or two by now together.

Now what the League had to do, was setup a PG & Melo trade their, just so West could re-up with the Thunder. Crazy ownership, didn't want to go into the tax to keep these 3 together.

I was disappointed when West sign that extension. But whatever, OKC fans got to keep their 1 super star player, good for them.

GS is going to win for the next 2 to 4yrs anyway.

WaDe03
12-14-2017, 10:27 AM
As much credit as OKC's FO has got over recent years, they've made certain decisions that has cost the franchise immensely.

As far as the thread, they would have easily had multiple titles by now had they kept Harden instead of WB IMO.

How would they easily have multiple titles? What championship team would they have beat?

JasonJohnHorn
12-14-2017, 10:31 AM
Houston AND OKC would suck.

KD is still going to leave if the team is giving away All-Stars and isn't committed to winning.

Westy wouldn't work in 'Antoni's system and would have clashed with Dwight even sooner.

Harden wouldn't have a system and roster in OKC that helps him win.

KD would be winning titles with the Warriors.

cheetos185
12-14-2017, 11:31 AM
This mother****ers had the 3 young franchise players and they let 2 of them walk well one ran away but whatever if one of the big market teams had harden/kd/west they would have signed all 3 of them up without a second thought.

mrblisterdundee
12-14-2017, 11:56 AM
Who knows? It's chaos theory to project this kind of stuff. Durant and Westbrook were pretty close to beating the Warriors, and I think they would have beat the Cavaliers in the finals.
I would certainly hope Harden still becomes a starting point guard, although he'd probably fit decently next to Jackson.

TrueFan420
12-14-2017, 01:23 PM
Do you think the ISO is more about Donovan or the players he's got?

Like most things in life the fault lies somewhere in between both parties. Yes the players play a part but Billy if he doesn't believe in that brand has the responsibility to change it as the coach. Both sides need to work to change but it won't cause neither side is really pushing for it.

FlashBolt
12-14-2017, 01:32 PM
The ISO isn't all Donovan's fault but he comes up with the lineups. We go ISO because we have too many ball dominant ISO players at the same time. Donovan needs to balance the rotations out and quite frankly, he's done none of that. If that isn't the coach's responsibility, why is there a coach?

Jamiecballer
12-14-2017, 02:20 PM
Very likely yes. Some people will try and rethink how every series would have gone but for me it's simple. Harden is a much better basketball player.

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FlashBolt
12-14-2017, 02:28 PM
Very likely yes. Some people will try and rethink how every series would have gone but for me it's simple. Harden is a much better basketball player.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Tapatalk

His shooting and ability to pass is what separates them. Russ might be the more athletic and fiesty player but that can only do so much when your actual basketball skills are below a superior player.

ChiSox219
12-14-2017, 03:32 PM
In theory OKC couldve traded Westbrook for Curry and kept Harden. This was before Curry elevated his game and when he was getting paid like $11m a year. Money wouldve worked allowing OKC to still keep Ibaka as well. Maybe GS would've turned it down but at the time Westbrook was definitely considered better and Curry had ankle issues.

FlashBolt
12-14-2017, 03:56 PM
In theory OKC couldve traded Westbrook for Curry and kept Harden. This was before Curry elevated his game and when he was getting paid like $11m a year. Money wouldve worked allowing OKC to still keep Ibaka as well. Maybe GS would've turned it down but at the time Westbrook was definitely considered better and Curry had ankle issues.

In theory, everyone should have traded for Curry, then. Except for the team with LBJ.

LeonFSU
12-14-2017, 04:22 PM
Adams / Durant / Roberson / Harden / Reggie Jackson?

Just think about what their team would have looked like today.....granted they could have added a better PG in the westbrook trade but when you think about what they got for harden (lamb martin and some picks) they essentially got no long term value in return. Even still that is a nice core of players and they would have been able to build it into a stronger team over the eyars

I'm pretty sure Adams was selected with the draft pick the Thunder got in the Harden trade.

Driven
12-14-2017, 04:31 PM
Houston AND OKC would suck.

KD is still going to leave if the team is giving away All-Stars and isn't committed to winning.

Westy wouldn't work in 'Antoni's system and would have clashed with Dwight even sooner.

Harden wouldn't have a system and roster in OKC that helps him win.

KD would be winning titles with the Warriors.

You're also assuming that Westbrook would have been traded to Houston and that everything else would work out the same as well.

JasonJohnHorn
12-14-2017, 06:41 PM
The ISO isn't all Donovan's fault ... We go ISO because we have too many ball dominant ISO players at the same time.

Great point here. I don't mean to take this out of context, so forgive me if I am, but I feel like the person at fault here is Presit. I don't fault him even, to be honest: he swung for the fences, and it ain't working.

People criticize Phil Jackson for shoving the triangle down NY's throat, and that's fair, but the real problem was they didn't have anybody to run it. It's a great system with the right players.

Melo is ISO.
Westy is ISO.
PG? I feel like he's a little more diverse and and can run in different systems, but he needs more diverse players around him.


What is Donovan supposed to do with a guy like Melo who clearly hasn't been able to succeed in a system that focuses on ball movement? What's he supposed to do with three ball-dominant players?

I had a friend who was really excited about this line-up. I told him it wasn't going to work. Lots of talent; no chemistry.

I mean.. I felt similar but not as strongly about Houston: I just felt like CP3 defensive tenacity and Harden's lackadaisy approach on D would create an issue. But both guys share the ball, so there's no reason they can't co-exist offensively.

But Melo, Westy, and PG? I don't see it.

JasonJohnHorn
12-14-2017, 06:43 PM
You're also assuming that Westbrook would have been traded to Houston and that everything else would work out the same as well.

Yup... I mean... wherever Westbrook would go in this scenario, it plays out the same. KD sees the team doesn't care about winning enough to pay. Leaves for somebody who is. Harden (instead of Westy) gets a season to show case everything.

Westy could go somewhere else of course, but if their deal was with Houston, I feel like that would have been a disaster. Houston did good getting Harden, and even better letting Dwight go and NOT getting Melo.

mightybosstone
12-14-2017, 06:46 PM
Houston AND OKC would suck.

KD is still going to leave if the team is giving away All-Stars and isn't committed to winning.

Westy wouldn't work in 'Antoni's system and would have clashed with Dwight even sooner.

Harden wouldn't have a system and roster in OKC that helps him win.

KD would be winning titles with the Warriors.

I don't think Morey would have traded for Westbrook, nor would the Thunder have taken that deal they got for Harden at the time. So I don't think you can just swap them out and play that hypothetical game. But even if you DID play that hypothetical game, there's no way to know if Dwight still would have come here, that McHale would have been gone or that D'Antoni would become the coach. Those are all things that happened directly as a result of events that occurred after Harden became a Rocket.

mightybosstone
12-14-2017, 07:02 PM
Honestly, I think Durant stays, and I think OKC would have won a title by now. Not only do I think Harden's game works so much better with Durant's and do I think Harden is just a better player overall than Westbrook, but Harden has been much healthier since the deal than Westy has been. Consider the 2012-13 playoffs. Westbrook gets hurt in that playoff series against the Rockets (and Harden, ironically), and the 60-win, No. 1 seed Thunder team goes down in the next round. Westy then misses the first half of the next season. That one injury had a huge impact on two seasons of those Durant Thunder teams.

Now, all that being said, you could make the argument that Harden never becomes this elite MVP-caliber player if he doesn't leave OKC. But even if he doesn't, I just think his game and personality vibe so much better on paper with Durant than Westy did. And I think Harden's game is more conducive to team success.

But I'm obviously glad it did happen. If that trade doesn't go down, the Rockets had just gone into full tank mode with their major offseason signings of Jeremy Lin and Omer freaking Asik. And the next two drafts were not good, so the Rockets probably continue to suck for a while. Like I don't want to even think about that alternative reality, because if it had happened, Morey probably would have been unjustly fired, and I'd be watching the sixth consecutive year of sub-.500 Rockets basketball. :puke:

kyubi256
12-14-2017, 07:31 PM
If they kept Harden, I don't think he would have developed to the guy he is now

lol, please
12-14-2017, 08:23 PM
If they kept Harden, I don't think he would have developed to the guy he is nowThis lol. Was waiting to see if someone said it.

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ChiSox219
12-15-2017, 09:55 PM
In theory, everyone should have traded for Curry, then. Except for the team with LBJ.

Yeah of course but the Thunder actually had the means to do it and the motivation. The story goes that they couldnt give Harden more than $12m/yr. So if your keeping Harden and maxing his contract, Westbrook would have had to been dealt for a player making around $12m.

PAOboston
12-16-2017, 08:36 AM
As much credit as OKC's FO has got over recent years, they've made certain decisions that has cost the franchise immensely.

As far as the thread, they would have easily had multiple titles by now had they kept Harden instead of WB IMO.Not sure if that is so much on FO rather than ownership. Owner didn't want to pay luxury tax. Seems incredibly dumb now in hindsight but not that surprising for small market team.

But it day makes you wonder though what could have been.

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FlashBolt
12-16-2017, 03:08 PM
Great point here. I don't mean to take this out of context, so forgive me if I am, but I feel like the person at fault here is Presit. I don't fault him even, to be honest: he swung for the fences, and it ain't working.

People criticize Phil Jackson for shoving the triangle down NY's throat, and that's fair, but the real problem was they didn't have anybody to run it. It's a great system with the right players.

Melo is ISO.
Westy is ISO.
PG? I feel like he's a little more diverse and and can run in different systems, but he needs more diverse players around him.


What is Donovan supposed to do with a guy like Melo who clearly hasn't been able to succeed in a system that focuses on ball movement? What's he supposed to do with three ball-dominant players?

I had a friend who was really excited about this line-up. I told him it wasn't going to work. Lots of talent; no chemistry.

I mean.. I felt similar but not as strongly about Houston: I just felt like CP3 defensive tenacity and Harden's lackadaisy approach on D would create an issue. But both guys share the ball, so there's no reason they can't co-exist offensively.

But Melo, Westy, and PG? I don't see it.

That's a fair assessment but I believe we did improve our roster. As good as Oladipo, Kanter, Sabonis, and even Doug are playing now, they weren't helping our roster much when we needed it. Those guys just needed a change in scenery but they aren't championship-level players. PG and Melo can be. The issue with Presti is he didn't build a bench to complement our roster. You see with the Cavs, they have a deep bench. Top five in scoring, I believe. We have none of that. And Melo refusing to go to the bench is a complete headache. On the other hand, it's possible RWB+Melo+PG are just having rough stretches all at the same time. Russ just seems out of control. Positive of this is we got rid of Victor/Kanter's salary and we can try to trade PG for some picks. Once we get rid of Melo (hopefully this season), we should start rebuilding. As great as RWB is, he'll never win a championship. I've already stated that numerous times.

GREATNESS ONE
06-23-2018, 10:59 PM
is there enough seconds in a shot clock?