PDA

View Full Version : Are the Rockets the best team in the league?



JasonJohnHorn
12-12-2017, 09:36 PM
Their record says so, so there's that obvious fact.

But they are out-Warrioring the Warriors. Harden and Gordon are jacking up 20 3's per game between them alone. Anderson, Paul, and Ariza are jacking up about another 20. Then LMAM, Tucker, and Brown are all hoisting up their share. And these dudes are hitting a crazy amount of these shots.

Between Harden, Anderson, Paul, and Ariza, they are throwing up 30 3' a game at .400. That is INSANE (36 points a game on those 30 shots).

Their guys are rebounding fairly well across the board. Passing. And yes, playing defense.


I realize the Warriors have the names, but the Rockets are playing like NBA champions right now.

This will of course be sorted out in the playoffs, but for the regular season, I can't see na argument for any other team right now.

Oh.. and they are undefeated with CP3 in the line-up.

tredigs
12-12-2017, 09:57 PM
Plenty of teams "out Warrior" the Warriors when it comes to 3pt shooting. They're not even top 5 in attempts. They just shoot them at the highest clip. Houston was taking 40+ attempts last season as well (Warriors 30-32 attempts, same as the year before that, same as this year). The Warriors have the slight lead in SRS still, and frankly I think they're just biding their time until the playoffs these days. If a series started today the Warriors would be the favorites, and are certainly considered the best team in the NBA still. So, that's their argument.

Nobody will fully believe in the Rockets because fair or not playoff Harden is not trusted to lead a team to the title. CP3 has a similar stigma surrounding him. But with Tucker and Mbah Moute they've bolstered their wing defense/ lineup versatility and they are obviously a highly, highly potent team. If the season ended today they would go down as a top 10 SRS in NBA history, which if you look at that list is not an insignificant stat.

If they go into the playoffs at full strength, I don't expect any team but the Warriors at full strength to beat them. But no, they're not the best team in the NBA.

mightybosstone
12-12-2017, 10:07 PM
Plenty of teams "out Warrior" the Warriors when it comes to 3pt shooting. They're not even top 5 in attempts. They just shoot them at the highest clip. Houston was taking 40+ attempts last season as well (Warriors 30-32 attempts, same as the year before that, same as this year). The Warriors have the slight lead in SRS still, and frankly I think they're just biding their time until the playoffs these days. If a series started today the Warriors would be the favorites, and are certainly considered the best team in the NBA still. So, that's their argument.

Nobody will fully believe in the Rockets because fair or not playoff Harden is not trusted to lead a team to the title. CP3 has a similar stigma surrounding him. But with Tucker and Mbah Moute they've bolstered their wing defense/ lineup versatility and they are obviously a highly, highly potent team. If the season ended today they would go down as a top 10 SRS in NBA history, which if you look at that list is not an insignificant stat.

If they go into the playoffs at full strength, I don't expect any team but the Warriors at full strength to beat them. But no, they're not the best team in the NBA.
I agree with pretty much everything said here. I love the Rockets, and I wish I could say with a straight face that they're the best team in the NBA, but you have to prove it in the playoffs and they haven't yet.

They may end up having the beat record in the league and even the best SRS and point differential, but that doesn't make you the best team. That being said, they'll get a chance to prove it in a few months, and they've got a pretty damn good shot to...

FlashBolt
12-12-2017, 10:26 PM
The top teams today outside of Cleveland+Warriors+Spurs all have to prove themselves. Especially the Rockets and any team CP3 is on. Numerous breakdowns from CP3+Harden that has a pattern. I mean, as good as Harden has been, remember his last playoffs game last year? That was terrible.

Vee-Rex
12-12-2017, 11:01 PM
I'm a believer. I think all Harden needed was a true running mate. He didn't have that last year. Together I think he and CP3 will cover for each other and come through if the other is having a bad game.

I think the Rockets have a better chance than ever before of winning a title.

With that said, the best team is the Warriors. Don't even gotta use stats for this one. They're the favorites, they're the team to beat.

Toxeryll
12-12-2017, 11:13 PM
They are poor man's Warriors. Second best team in the league, I believe they are better than CLE.

Its not a bad spot to be in though, any injury to GSW might give HOU a legit chance of knocking them out.

valade16
12-13-2017, 12:52 AM
The entirety of the Rockets core are considered playoff chokers (Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni), fair or not. Until such time as they prove it in the playoffs, people will continue to doubt them.

LOb0
12-13-2017, 01:12 AM
The entirety of the Rockets core are considered playoff chokers (Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni), fair or not. Until such time as they prove it in the playoffs, people will continue to doubt them.

100% zero faith in those three. I consider them no threat at all to win the title. Even without GS being around I think Cavs, Spurs with Kawhi, and even Boston would win a playoff series against them.

ewing
12-13-2017, 01:44 AM
No

mightybosstone
12-13-2017, 08:57 AM
So, I'm not surprised by the response in this thread. Everyone brings up the past history of Harden, Paul and D'Antoni, and (fair or not) I at least understand it.

But if that is the popular opinion of them, then the better question might be: What does this Rockets team have to do to change your opinion of those three guys in the playoffs? Would a WCF appearance and a tough 6 or 7-game series with the Warriors be enough? Do they need to make it to the finals? Or do they have to win the whole damn thing?

I would love to live in a world where those guys got the respect they deserve, but I worry that it's an impossibility as long as this Warriors core is together.

mightybosstone
12-13-2017, 09:00 AM
100% zero faith in those three. I consider them no threat at all to win the title. Even without GS being around I think Cavs, Spurs with Kawhi, and even Boston would win a playoff series against them.

God I wish the Rockets were in the East. Harden and Paul vs. a team with only one proven go-to scorer and a ton of young guys playing big minutes? The Rockets would gladly face Boston in the postseason.

Vinylman
12-13-2017, 09:37 AM
Don't sleep on the rockets...

Morey is gonna kill it in the buyout market

Players will move to them in DROVES!!!

Scoots
12-13-2017, 09:45 AM
So, I'm not surprised by the response in this thread. Everyone brings up the past history of Harden, Paul and D'Antoni, and (fair or not) I at least understand it.

But if that is the popular opinion of them, then the better question might be: What does this Rockets team have to do to change your opinion of those three guys in the playoffs? Would a WCF appearance and a tough 6 or 7-game series with the Warriors be enough? Do they need to make it to the finals? Or do they have to win the whole damn thing?

I would love to live in a world where those guys got the respect they deserve, but I worry that it's an impossibility as long as this Warriors core is together.

My biggest issue with them isn't that they lost, but that their teams lost spectacularly. Harden has been knocked out a couple times IIRC with some terrrrrrrible last game performances, and while Paul has been had decent numbers his teams have collapsed. I think that if they make the WCF they are in good shape, or even if they don't as long as they push their opponent HARD and don't have any melt downs.

europagnpilgrim
12-13-2017, 10:49 AM
Their record says so, so there's that obvious fact.

But they are out-Warrioring the Warriors. Harden and Gordon are jacking up 20 3's per game between them alone. Anderson, Paul, and Ariza are jacking up about another 20. Then LMAM, Tucker, and Brown are all hoisting up their share. And these dudes are hitting a crazy amount of these shots.

Between Harden, Anderson, Paul, and Ariza, they are throwing up 30 3' a game at .400. That is INSANE (36 points a game on those 30 shots).

Their guys are rebounding fairly well across the board. Passing. And yes, playing defense.


I realize the Warriors have the names, but the Rockets are playing like NBA champions right now.

This will of course be sorted out in the playoffs, but for the regular season, I can't see na argument for any other team right now.

Oh.. and they are undefeated with CP3 in the line-up.


this will not sit well with the nerd efficient geeks because 36 points on 30 shots is horrible and I don't care if they are taking 3pt or 4pt shots, that is horrible efficiency until you recognize the system/style that's in place then it makes it look good, same goes for players who are forced to shoot 25 times a game and they manage to shoot 40pct

but to answer your question I would say they are at worst tied for best team since GS holds that title with 3 straight Finals trips, but the Rockets have 2 legit MVP caliber candidates with 1 of them leading the MVP voting as we stand here today

being undefeated with CP3 in lineup puts him in MVP talks off that alone, though its a small sample size here I tend to look at his Clippers tenure with him and without him in lineup, the w-l record speaks for itself

europagnpilgrim
12-13-2017, 10:55 AM
The top teams today outside of Cleveland+Warriors+Spurs all have to prove themselves. Especially the Rockets and any team CP3 is on. Numerous breakdowns from CP3+Harden that has a pattern. I mean, as good as Harden has been, remember his last playoffs game last year? That was terrible.

Have you ever played the game at any level and it was just you who had to do it all on the offensive end? if you did then you would know at any point you could have a bad stretch and Harden just had it at the time when the season was on the line, now subtract that 1 playoff game and look at the other 88 games he had prior to that

remember Jordan in 96' Finals? to his standards he played horrible and even worse when Karl decided to turn loose Payton on him I think after game 3, but Jordan had Pippen and a few others to provide the lockdown d and rebounds to match Sonics and offset his unJordan like performance

you guys put too much emphasis on 1 game and gloss over the other 90 because Harden delivered in pretty much all of them and he was available and he played hurt I think with that wrist in that playoffs as well, he hurt it in like one of the final 3 games of the reg. season but lets gloss over that as well

europagnpilgrim
12-13-2017, 11:04 AM
The entirety of the Rockets core are considered playoff chokers (Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni), fair or not. Until such time as they prove it in the playoffs, people will continue to doubt them.

When you say prove it in the playoffs are you talking about winning a title or actually showing up? because I can only recall Harden coming up small in 12' Finals and last year against Spurs in game 6, and CP3 always puts up his numbers in playoffs regardless of outcome so I don't know what they have to prove since they already have proven what they can do, same with Mike D he had Suns on verge of Finals then the Horry hip check changed the entire series, they also blew the series when they had Shaq over there as well against the Spurs,blowing a 20pt lead is more on the players then the actual coach who sits on the sidelines and watches just as them building a 20pt lead was all on the players and the coach had basically nothing to do with that other than the offensive scheme he implemented for them to execute

the rockets core don't have a ring but to call them chokers is really reaching when you sit back and break down the actual situations

CP3 choked the 15' series but prior to him joining the Clippers they were basically the laughingstock but once CP3 arrived there it they got the label as title contenders, that's a lot of pressure to put on a tiny guard but he was built for it and handled it in stride, bad injuries and all

also Harden had a bad high turnover game against Warriors as well in I think 15' series that hurt the team, so that's 3 times I can recall him playing bad even though he was basically a baby in 12' Finals

mightybosstone
12-13-2017, 11:22 AM
this will not sit well with the nerd efficient geeks because 36 points on 30 shots is horrible and I don't care if they are taking 3pt or 4pt shots, that is horrible efficiency until you recognize the system/style that's in place then it makes it look good, same goes for players who are forced to shoot 25 times a game and they manage to shoot 40pct
It actually is extremely efficient. You're only looking through the scope of the 3-point shots, but you're not taking into account any points they score as a result of free throws from those shots. Any player that shoots 40 percent from the 3-point line is an exceptional 3-point shooter.

Htownballa1622
12-13-2017, 11:22 AM
The answer is the Warriors.


100% zero faith in those three. I consider them no threat at all to win the title. Even without GS being around I think Cavs, Spurs with Kawhi, and even Boston would win a playoff series against them.

:laugh:


I WISH we were in the east so we could smack the **** out of yall.

Instead, i'll just wait for Lebron to do that to you all this year.

Driven
12-13-2017, 11:29 AM
If you just isolated this season, and didn't know the greatness of the players on Golden State or their track record the past three years, you could make an argument that the Rockets are the best in the league.

But we do know that this Golden State team is one of the best of all-time. In order to prove you're the best, you have to beat the best. Until the Rockets do that, there will never be an argument that the Rockets are the best in the league.

There were a lot of Warriors doubters when they started becoming great. People said that they couldn't win a title. It's possible that a team like the Rockets or Boston could surprise, because there are plenty of unknowns. But until that happens, there is no real debate here. Hopefully we don't keep talking about this over the course of the regular season.

And I 100% get why people would doubt Harden, Paul and D'Antoni in the playoffs. But this is the best team that any of those three have likely had so far, and they have a lot to prove.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2017, 11:39 AM
So, I'm not surprised by the response in this thread. Everyone brings up the past history of Harden, Paul and D'Antoni, and (fair or not) I at least understand it.

But if that is the popular opinion of them, then the better question might be: What does this Rockets team have to do to change your opinion of those three guys in the playoffs? Would a WCF appearance and a tough 6 or 7-game series with the Warriors be enough? Do they need to make it to the finals? Or do they have to win the whole damn thing?

I would love to live in a world where those guys got the respect they deserve, but I worry that it's an impossibility as long as this Warriors core is together.

but why do Paul, Harden, or Mike D deserve any respect, outside their great regular season play, various spots of great playoff play, however they all have failed inevitably come playoff time, with the same recipe. It's tough to put any real belief in the Rockets when there is a long history of failure with all of it's parts basically. Especially when there is such a juggernaut currently.

The Rockets have to win. Period. Harden and Paul need to not pull their typical disappearing act for periods of time (many times it's cost their team a series) come playoff time. They need to shake free their own reputations by doing the opposite, that is what it will take dude. Mike D's team was one game away from the finals, but his style hasn't proven to win.

The way you change perception is to change the results. Harden, Paul, and Mike D, have all failed come playoff time. GS has not, in fact destroying everything in sight.

As a Rox fan, would you bet on your team to win? You strike me as very rational, I can't believe that when it came to "put your money where your mouth is", you would actually plop down a real amount of money on the Rockets to beat the Warriors. The Warriors are in cruise control in the regular season. We all believe they could win 70 games if they wished to, but that isn't their goal.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2017, 11:42 AM
My biggest issue with them isn't that they lost, but that their teams lost spectacularly. Harden has been knocked out a couple times IIRC with some terrrrrrrible last game performances, and while Paul has been had decent numbers his teams have collapsed. I think that if they make the WCF they are in good shape, or even if they don't as long as they push their opponent HARD and don't have any melt downs.

exactly. We all remember Harden in his last game played last year. it was horrific. He has had those before, so has Paul. Paul has made some errors at the worst possible time a few times, and it's just repetitive at this point.

Those guys have failed with such pizzaz, it leaves a mark on you. You remember it. So it's hard to trust a team with 2 players who have **** the bed before already, all the meanwhile never won anything. Especially when we know what is waiting for them in the WCF's....the greatest team in history by many accounts.

IndyRealist
12-13-2017, 11:47 AM
this will not sit well with the nerd efficient geeks because 36 points on 30 shots is horrible and I don't care if they are taking 3pt or 4pt shots, that is horrible efficiency until you recognize the system/style that's in place then it makes it look good, same goes for players who are forced to shoot 25 times a game and they manage to shoot 40pct

but to answer your question I would say they are at worst tied for best team since GS holds that title with 3 straight Finals trips, but the Rockets have 2 legit MVP caliber candidates with 1 of them leading the MVP voting as we stand here today

being undefeated with CP3 in lineup puts him in MVP talks off that alone, though its a small sample size here I tend to look at his Clippers tenure with him and without him in lineup, the w-l record speaks for itself

36 points on 30 shots is 1.2 pps. That's fantastic. Not sure what you're talking about. There seems to be a gross misunderstanding about efficiency here.

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 12:09 PM
God I wish the Rockets were in the East. Harden and Paul vs. a team with only one proven go-to scorer and a ton of young guys playing big minutes? The Rockets would gladly face Boston in the postseason.

The Rockets would destroy Boston in a series.

Jamiecballer
12-13-2017, 01:58 PM
I would say yes the rockets are the best atm but will be underdogs to the Warriors which is reasonable. I do feel that Morey has locked down the title of best GM by miles at this point. He's playing chess to everyone else's checkers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Tapatalk

smith&wesson
12-13-2017, 02:18 PM
they are currently the best team hands down..

also I think Lebron will end up in Houston as well. why not, his best friend is there and they are contenders

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 02:19 PM
they are currently the best team hands down..

also I think Lebron will end up in Houston as well. why not, his best friend is there and they are contenders

His best friends in Cleveland and they're contenders but I guess his bestfriend could go with him. Houston doesn't have a backup PG

Scoots
12-13-2017, 02:21 PM
Houston doesn't have a backup PG

????????????

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 02:28 PM
????????????

Am I forgetting someone lol?

smith&wesson
12-13-2017, 02:51 PM
His best friends in Cleveland and they're contenders but I guess his bestfriend could go with him. Houston doesn't have a backup PG

Wade isn't his bff, Paul is and its been well known for some time now but who cares who his bf is.. Wade is on his last legs and nearing retirement.

Why would Houston need a back up pg if they have Paul, Harden (who played pg all year last year), and Lebron who all excel at distributing the ball.

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 02:51 PM
Wade isn't his bff, pPaul is and its been well known for some time now.. Also Wade is on his last legs and nearing retirement.

Why would Houston need a back up pg if they have Paul, Harden (who played pg all year last year), and Lebron who all excel at distributing the ball.

Well known by who? I think everyone but you knows him and Wade are best friends.

smith&wesson
12-13-2017, 02:52 PM
Am I forgetting someone lol?

ahh yeah, Harden lol

Hardens averaging 9.5 assists WITH Paul on the same team... and in case you need further proof check what positions Harden is listed as https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html

nastynice
12-13-2017, 03:22 PM
If you just isolated this season, and didn't know the greatness of the players on Golden State or their track record the past three years, you could make an argument that the Rockets are the best in the league.



Nice take..

rhino17
12-13-2017, 03:52 PM
So, I'm not surprised by the response in this thread. Everyone brings up the past history of Harden, Paul and D'Antoni, and (fair or not) I at least understand it.

But if that is the popular opinion of them, then the better question might be: What does this Rockets team have to do to change your opinion of those three guys in the playoffs? Would a WCF appearance and a tough 6 or 7-game series with the Warriors be enough? Do they need to make it to the finals? Or do they have to win the whole damn thing?
I think the playoff choking argument is bogus. It maybe works for Paul, but D'Antoni and Harden have both taken teams to the Western Conference Finals. They simply haven't made a finals appearance

LOb0
12-13-2017, 03:56 PM
The Rockets would destroy Boston in a series.

And what have any of the players on Houston ever done? Lets not even bring up that joke of a coach that flames out the same way every single year.

LOb0
12-13-2017, 03:58 PM
I think the playoff choking argument is bogus. It maybe works for Paul, but D'Antoni and Harden have both taken teams to the Western Conference Finals. They simply haven't made a finals appearance

At no point did anyone think a D'antoni team was going to win a title. Harden got to the West finals because his bench saved him from his choke job, then he had an all time bad choke job in the west finals.

LOb0
12-13-2017, 04:00 PM
God I wish the Rockets were in the East. Harden and Paul vs. a team with only one proven go-to scorer and a ton of young guys playing big minutes? The Rockets would gladly face Boston in the postseason.

Harden choke job and CP3 getting torched nightly by Kyrie.

Bring it on sir.

valade16
12-13-2017, 04:26 PM
When you say prove it in the playoffs are you talking about winning a title or actually showing up? because I can only recall Harden coming up small in 12' Finals and last year against Spurs in game 6, and CP3 always puts 1up his numbers in playoffs regardless of outcome so I don't know what they have to prove since they already have proven what they can do, same with Mike D he had Suns on verge of Finals then the Horry hip check changed the entire series, they also blew the series when they had Shaq over there as well against the Spurs,blowing a 20pt lead is more on the players then the actual coach who sits on the sidelines and watches just as them building a 20pt lead was all on the players and the coach had basically nothing to do with that other than the offensive scheme he implemented for them to execute

the rockets core don't have a ring but to call them chokers is really reaching when you sit back and break down the actual situations

CP3 choked the 15' series but prior to him joining the Clippers they were basically the laughingstock but once CP3 arrived there it they got the label as title contenders, that's a lot of pressure to put on a tiny guard but he was built for it and handled it in stride, bad injuries and all

also Harden had a bad high turnover game against Warriors as well in I think 15' series that hurt the team, so that's 3 times I can recall him playing bad even though he was basically a baby in 12' Finals

Harden:
Last year when he went 2/11 in Game 6 and the Spurs blew the doors off Houston
2014 when he shot 37% from the field and 29% From 3 and the Rockets were upset by the Blazers
2013 when he shot 39% from the field and 34% from 3 and the Rockets lost to the Thunder (he went 7/22 in Game 6)
2012 when he shot 38% from the field and 31% from 3 and the Thunder lost to the Heat

That's 4 pretty bad efforts in 8 years of making the playoffs. So half the time Harden does not deliver when needed.


I could go line by line for D'Antoni and CP3 as well but the main point is this:

All 3 are all-time great talents at what they do. They are at the top level of comparison in the sport. The only thing separating them from the next level of those comparisons is a title. It's unfair, but it's reality. The only coaches thought of more highly than D'Antoni have all either won titles or at least went to the Finals. The only PGs ahead of CP3 (except Stockton) have all won titles. The only SGs ahead of Harden have won titles.

Unfair or not, that is what it is going to take for them to take that next step. Otherwise Harden and CP3, as good as they are, will be relegated to the Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing level of history instead of the Kobe, Hakeem, Moses level.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2017, 04:55 PM
I think the playoff choking argument is bogus. It maybe works for Paul, but D'Antoni and Harden have both taken teams to the Western Conference Finals. They simply haven't made a finals appearance

how is it bogus? Did you watch Harden's last game against the Spurs, an elimination game? He was HORRIBLE. Did you watch the 2013 Portland series, where he had to chuck his way to 26/game? Mike D has had plenty of failures.

It's not just that Paul/Harden have lost. Everyone does that. It's that they have lost in such a fashion at one point or another, that people scratch their heads and wonder what they just saw. I mean seriously, how does an MVP candidate, and supposed top 3 player, lay such a clunker in game 7 like Harden did last year?

On the flip side, we have GS, who we know is a juggernaut that can wipe any team off the floor like a mosquito. Nothing has changed with them. The Rockets aren't challenging them. Nobody is. So this question (the OP) is a silly one.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2017, 05:04 PM
Harden:
Last year when he went 2/11 in Game 6 and the Spurs blew the doors off Houston
2014 when he shot 37% from the field and 29% From 3 and the Rockets were upset by the Blazers
2013 when he shot 39% from the field and 34% from 3 and the Rockets lost to the Thunder (he went 7/22 in Game 6)
2012 when he shot 38% from the field and 31% from 3 and the Thunder lost to the Heat

That's 4 pretty bad efforts in 8 years of making the playoffs. So half the time Harden does not deliver when needed.


I could go line by line for D'Antoni and CP3 as well but the main point is this:

All 3 are all-time great talents at what they do. They are at the top level of comparison in the sport. The only thing separating them from the next level of those comparisons is a title. It's unfair, but it's reality. The only coaches thought of more highly than D'Antoni have all either won titles or at least went to the Finals. The only PGs ahead of CP3 (except Stockton) have all won titles. The only SGs ahead of Harden have won titles.

Unfair or not, that is what it is going to take for them to take that next step. Otherwise Harden and CP3, as good as they are, will be relegated to the Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing level of history instead of the Kobe, Hakeem, Moses level.

but it's not. Harden has laid some eggs. CP3 too. Both have had some games, and even a series here and there, that didn't even make sense.

Your last line is true. Without a title, and without playing great winning that title, Harden/Paul are relegated to the Malone/Ewing convo.

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 05:27 PM
And what have any of the players on Houston ever done? Lets not even bring up that joke of a coach that flames out the same way every single year.

Harden and Paul are better than anyone on the Celtics and their supporting cast is much better. You all are relying way too much on a bunch of young guys who have little to no playoff experience.

mightybosstone
12-13-2017, 05:38 PM
So, PSD still isn't letting me quote posts, which makes responding to everyone hard. But I'll address the consistent responses and questions I've been getting as a whole.

As to whether or not Harden, Paul and D'Antoni deserve any respect for what they've done up to this point, I say "why the hell not?" Do we look at guys like Barkley and Malone a little differently because they didn't win titles? Sure, but that doesn't mean they're not still top 25 players. But team success should only be part of the equation, not the entirety of it.

Also, fans (again, especially on PSD) love to point to individual moments or series of these guys that were bad, but they love neglecting that ones that were good. Everyone likes to bring up Paul and the Clippers collapse against Houston and Harden's awful Game 6 last year, but nobody wants to talk about Paul's New Orleans days where he willed an inferior team to solid outings against superior opponents or Harden's many, many remarkable playoff games.

Also, the reason why I think fans (particularly on PSD) have been especially harsh is that they have kind of a double standard for who they consider a playoff choker and who isn't. For example, when Paul joined the Harden/D'Antoni squad, I saw a lot of comments (and continue to see them) about how it makes sense that they're together because they haven't done anything and that they're all postseason failures. But where was that when Melo and Paul George joined Westbrook in OKC?

Westy and Melo have had their fair share of playoff failures, and George is no postseason stud. Yet, I've seen zero conversation about that. In fact, in spite of all their struggles as a team, I continue to see posters say that they think OKC is a bigger threat to the Warriors than the Rockets, who have been insanely good this season. I just wish Houston would be given the same level of respect as the Thunder, who have roughly the same level of accomplishment collectively in the postseason as the Rockets do.

Htownballa1622
12-13-2017, 06:44 PM
It's definitely a bias against Harden and Cp3.

People always bring up game 6 against Clippers but fail to mention Harden in game 7.
Cp3 had 27 in his game 7 against the Spurs in that previous round.
Y'all only forget bad games and gloss over the good.
Westbrook was terrible last year in playoffs but "he didn't have help."

People act like losing to historic level teams means you're trash. Not every team wins the championship. Only one does.

All narrative based and ESPN continues to cloud national perception.

valade16
12-13-2017, 06:45 PM
but it's not. Harden has laid some eggs. CP3 too. Both have had some games, and even a series here and there, that didn't even make sense.

Your last line is true. Without a title, and without playing great winning that title, Harden/Paul are relegated to the Malone/Ewing convo.

The last line is what I was trying to get at. Right now they are destined to finish in the Top 25 level all-time (if fortunes are good). The only way they can climb higher to the 10-15 (or even Top 10 level) is if they win rings.

Tg11
12-13-2017, 06:53 PM
Rockets could potentially dethrone the Warriors in the West I mean if any team can do it it is probably them

europagnpilgrim
12-13-2017, 07:14 PM
Harden:
Last year when he went 2/11 in Game 6 and the Spurs blew the doors off Houston
2014 when he shot 37% from the field and 29% From 3 and the Rockets were upset by the Blazers
2013 when he shot 39% from the field and 34% from 3 and the Rockets lost to the Thunder (he went 7/22 in Game 6)
2012 when he shot 38% from the field and 31% from 3 and the Thunder lost to the Heat

That's 4 pretty bad efforts in 8 years of making the playoffs. So half the time Harden does not deliver when needed.


I could go line by line for D'Antoni and CP3 as well but the main point is this:

All 3 are all-time great talents at what they do. They are at the top level of comparison in the sport. The only thing separating them from the next level of those comparisons is a title. It's unfair, but it's reality. The only coaches thought of more highly than D'Antoni have all either won titles or at least went to the Finals. The only PGs ahead of CP3 (except Stockton) have all won titles. The only SGs ahead of Harden have won titles.

Unfair or not, that is what it is going to take for them to take that next step. Otherwise Harden and CP3, as good as they are, will be relegated to the Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing level of history instead of the Kobe, Hakeem, Moses level.


Now look how dumb all what you said at the end sound, Harden and CP3 will be regulated to Malone/Barkley/Iverson/Ewing level but if you flip it around and all those guys had just one ring you still would be like well they don't have 3 or 4 or 5 like such and such and such

Kerr has 5 rings but I don't hear you or anybody screaming that he was the best 6th man ever, shooting wise he is up there no doubt but as a total player not even close, he is not even in my top 5 best most dominant 6th men and he has 5 rings, rings don't mean ****

and just like you said they all are proven for a long long while,especially CP3

so he had 4 pretty bad efforts, now post his games where he played good to really good and lets see how compares to his so called 4 bad games

you have to always look at it from both sides of the coin, not just because of what the media pushes out, we all know damn good well rings are looked up different from a Jordan as opposed to Russell and his 11, so that to me kills the ring talk right there, and you proved it even further because being mentioned in the breath of Barkley/Malone/Iverson is the holy grail, Duncan had move up the list past those guys if we let yall tell it

if Barkley and Malone had 5 rings I wouldn't look at them any different

Fisher/Kerr got combined 10 rings while Barkley/Malone/Iverson have zero total and we all know damn well that you would not take the duo of those 10 rings over any duo of the 3 who have none

Barkley and Malone and Ewing are on the level of Hakeem/Moses and Kobe, you just separate them using a ring argument, those guys went to Finals and just came up short but were there so that has to count for something, Ewing/Malone went 2x each

Russell has 11 rings and you and everybody and they mama would sware that Jordan is twice the player he is even though he almost doubled Jordan ring count

rings don't mean a thing when we are comparing a player on individual on court game/impact, rings mean your team was a serious contender and you had upper echelon talent surrounding you, that's how it always has been 99pct of the time, go look it up like you did those Harden stats

Tg11
12-13-2017, 07:17 PM
Could the Rockets win a title? Yeah it is possible and they are playing for their lives right now in the West probably going on the best roll they have had in a while and Harden & CP3 seem to gel right now but also their bench is coming through for them as well let's take that into account

lol, please
12-13-2017, 07:50 PM
Their record says so, so there's that obvious fact.

But they are out-Warrioring the Warriors. Harden and Gordon are jacking up 20 3's per game between them alone. Anderson, Paul, and Ariza are jacking up about another 20. Then LMAM, Tucker, and Brown are all hoisting up their share. And these dudes are hitting a crazy amount of these shots.

Between Harden, Anderson, Paul, and Ariza, they are throwing up 30 3' a game at .400. That is INSANE (36 points a game on those 30 shots).

Their guys are rebounding fairly well across the board. Passing. And yes, playing defense.


I realize the Warriors have the names, but the Rockets are playing like NBA champions right now.

This will of course be sorted out in the playoffs, but for the regular season, I can't see na argument for any other team right now.

Oh.. and they are undefeated with CP3 in the line-up.I can. Toss up to me between the Spurs, Warriors, Celtics, Rockets, and Raptors. That's regular season "playing like champions" mind you.

If we talk about all rosters are healthy in 7 games series hypotheticals, the right answer is the Warriors every time. The core of the dynasty hasn't changed and they've earned the respect and benefit of the doubt.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

lol, please
12-13-2017, 07:53 PM
If you just isolated this season, and didn't know the greatness of the players on Golden State or their track record the past three years, you could make an argument that the Rockets are the best in the league.

But we do know that this Golden State team is one of the best of all-time. In order to prove you're the best, you have to beat the best. Until the Rockets do that, there will never be an argument that the Rockets are the best in the league.

There were a lot of Warriors doubters when they started becoming great. People said that they couldn't win a title. It's possible that a team like the Rockets or Boston could surprise, because there are plenty of unknowns. But until that happens, there is no real debate here. Hopefully we don't keep talking about this over the course of the regular season.

And I 100% get why people would doubt Harden, Paul and D'Antoni in the playoffs. But this is the best team that any of those three have likely had so far, and they have a lot to prove.Well said. Fantastic post.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Tg11
12-13-2017, 08:04 PM
Yeah Rockets they were magnificent last season and what happened in the playoffs first round against the Spurs they lost that series in what 5 games and Harden failed to show up he quit on his team...my point being that if they are a great regular season team let's see if they can prove that they are an even better team come playoff time

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 08:36 PM
Well said. Fantastic post.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Excellent. Very proud of you. Well said. Magnificent.

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 10:16 PM
Excellent. Very proud of you. Well said. Magnificent.

That's all he does haha. waits for someone to make a post he agrees with because he doesn't know how to string up sentences

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 10:28 PM
That's all he does haha. waits for someone to make a post he agrees with because he doesn't know how to string up sentences

:laugh:

valade16
12-13-2017, 10:38 PM
Now look how dumb all what you said at the end sound, Harden and CP3 will be regulated to Malone/Barkley/Iverson/Ewing level but if you flip it around and all those guys had just one ring you still would be like well they don't have 3 or 4 or 5 like such and such and such

Kerr has 5 rings but I don't hear you or anybody screaming that he was the best 6th man ever, shooting wise he is up there no doubt but as a total player not even close, he is not even in my top 5 best most dominant 6th men and he has 5 rings, rings don't mean ****

and just like you said they all are proven for a long long while,especially CP3

so he had 4 pretty bad efforts, now post his games where he played good to really good and lets see how compares to his so called 4 bad games

you have to always look at it from both sides of the coin, not just because of what the media pushes out, we all know damn good well rings are looked up different from a Jordan as opposed to Russell and his 11, so that to me kills the ring talk right there, and you proved it even further because being mentioned in the breath of Barkley/Malone/Iverson is the holy grail, Duncan had move up the list past those guys if we let yall tell it

if Barkley and Malone had 5 rings I wouldn't look at them any different

Fisher/Kerr got combined 10 rings while Barkley/Malone/Iverson have zero total and we all know damn well that you would not take the duo of those 10 rings over any duo of the 3 who have none

Barkley and Malone and Ewing are on the level of Hakeem/Moses and Kobe, you just separate them using a ring argument, those guys went to Finals and just came up short but were there so that has to count for something, Ewing/Malone went 2x each

Russell has 11 rings and you and everybody and they mama would sware that Jordan is twice the player he is even though he almost doubled Jordan ring count

rings don't mean a thing when we are comparing a player on individual on court game/impact, rings mean your team was a serious contender and you had upper echelon talent surrounding you, that's how it always has been 99pct of the time, go look it up like you did those Harden stats

First Bolded: That's kind of the argument isn't it? CP3 and Harden have been around for a long while and still no rings. Yeah, Harden has 4 season ending bad performances in the playoffs. Out of 8 attempts. Name another player that had a 50% failure rate in terms of postseason ending performances in their resume. The only 2 in the Top 25 that approach that level are D-Rob and Karl Malone, and surprise, neither are thought of as Top 10 despite clearly having the stats and/or longevity to merit it. Neither has rings as the main man either, so that is fairly telling as well.

Second Bolded: In your earlier post you said that CP3 made the Clippers title contenders. So were they title contenders or weren't they? You can't argue they were with CP3 but that CP3 didn't have any title contending teams. Either he did or he didn't.

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 10:51 PM
First Bolded: That's kind of the argument isn't it? CP3 and Harden have been around for a long while and still no rings. Yeah, Harden has 4 season ending bad performances in the playoffs. Out of 8 attempts. Name another player that had a 50% failure rate in terms of postseason ending performances in their resume. The only 2 in the Top 25 that approach that level are D-Rob and Karl Malone, and surprise, neither are thought of as Top 10 despite clearly having the stats and/or longevity to merit it. Neither has rings as the main man either, so that is fairly telling as well.

Second Bolded: In your earlier post you said that CP3 made the Clippers title contenders. So were they title contenders or weren't they? You can't argue they were with CP3 but that CP3 didn't have any title contending teams. Either he did or he didn't.

I don't think it's a secret Harden has had poor success in the playoffs. CP3 as well but I blame CP3's teammates (Blake is a huge choker and DJ doesn't do anything other than dunk/rebound). It wasn't a surprise to see that team really implode in the playoffs. They're being exposed without CP3 as it is. It's impossible to take a team serious when they massively underperform in the playoffs. Particularly, Harden has to prove he can elevate his game because if he doesn't, there is no amount of regular season success that can save his career.

rhino17
12-14-2017, 02:28 AM
how is it bogus? Did you watch Harden's last game against the Spurs, an elimination game? He was HORRIBLE. Did you watch the 2013 Portland series, where he had to chuck his way to 26/game? Mike D has had plenty of failures.

It's not just that Paul/Harden have lost. Everyone does that. It's that they have lost in such a fashion at one point or another, that people scratch their heads and wonder what they just saw. I mean seriously, how does an MVP candidate, and supposed top 3 player, lay such a clunker in game 7 like Harden did last year?

On the flip side, we have GS, who we know is a juggernaut that can wipe any team off the floor like a mosquito. Nothing has changed with them. The Rockets aren't challenging them. Nobody is. So this question (the OP) is a silly one.

Its bogus because based on that logic, everyone outside the Warriors and Lebron are perennial chokers. I just don't buy that. Yeah, something was wrong with harden in game 7, I still think he was concussed. But they arent in a game 7 without him, they dont make the WCF without him 2 years prior to that. Harden was absolutely integral in taking OKC to the finals. D'Antoni has done just about everything imaginable except make the finals.

Playoff chokers are guys like Tmac who never won a single series in their life. Paul even could be put in that category only reaching the 2nd round a couple times.

These guys lose because they've always run into better teams. You guys can ***** about them "losing" all you want but give me a hand full of players that have accomplished more than them right now

TylerSL
12-14-2017, 05:56 AM
It would be fantastic if they beat the Warriors.

Tg11
12-14-2017, 09:32 AM
I think Houston will do damage in the playoffs this year

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 09:58 AM
So, PSD still isn't letting me quote posts, which makes responding to everyone hard. But I'll address the consistent responses and questions I've been getting as a whole.

As to whether or not Harden, Paul and D'Antoni deserve any respect for what they've done up to this point, I say "why the hell not?" Do we look at guys like Barkley and Malone a little differently because they didn't win titles? Sure, but that doesn't mean they're not still top 25 players. But team success should only be part of the equation, not the entirety of it.

Also, fans (again, especially on PSD) love to point to individual moments or series of these guys that were bad, but they love neglecting that ones that were good. Everyone likes to bring up Paul and the Clippers collapse against Houston and Harden's awful Game 6 last year, but nobody wants to talk about Paul's New Orleans days where he willed an inferior team to solid outings against superior opponents or Harden's many, many remarkable playoff games.

Also, the reason why I think fans (particularly on PSD) have been especially harsh is that they have kind of a double standard for who they consider a playoff choker and who isn't. For example, when Paul joined the Harden/D'Antoni squad, I saw a lot of comments (and continue to see them) about how it makes sense that they're together because they haven't done anything and that they're all postseason failures. But where was that when Melo and Paul George joined Westbrook in OKC?

Westy and Melo have had their fair share of playoff failures, and George is no postseason stud. Yet, I've seen zero conversation about that. In fact, in spite of all their struggles as a team, I continue to see posters say that they think OKC is a bigger threat to the Warriors than the Rockets, who have been insanely good this season. I just wish Houston would be given the same level of respect as the Thunder, who have roughly the same level of accomplishment collectively in the postseason as the Rockets do.

yep, all very true man. It's not as if Harden/Paul haven't had playoff games/series where they were awesome. I guess I just don't have any faith in either of them when it comes to manning up and beating the Warriors. That might not even be a slight at them, I frankly don't think any team stands a chance. Compound that with the very recent dud Harden laid in the playoffs, and Paul not being that dominant Hornet player we saw recently, can you really blame anyone for thinking this way?

Yeah, I don't get the OKC love. I understand 3 big names, but George is crazy overrated, Melo is a loser, and Westbrook, as good as he is, can only play one way. I didn't think they were going to be a top 4 team out west this year at all. And no way on earth are the a contender..

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 10:01 AM
Its bogus because based on that logic, everyone outside the Warriors and Lebron are perennial chokers. I just don't buy that. Yeah, something was wrong with harden in game 7, I still think he was concussed. But they arent in a game 7 without him, they dont make the WCF without him 2 years prior to that. Harden was absolutely integral in taking OKC to the finals. D'Antoni has done just about everything imaginable except make the finals.

Playoff chokers are guys like Tmac who never won a single series in their life. Paul even could be put in that category only reaching the 2nd round a couple times.

These guys lose because they've always run into better teams. You guys can ***** about them "losing" all you want but give me a hand full of players that have accomplished more than them right now

sorry dude, whatever reason you want to use, Harden **** the bed in game 7 last year. He was dreadful for stretches of other series. Paul is far removed from his dominant Hornets days, and while he has been good in the playoffs, he hasn't been a star player that lifts a team to better heights. His team is supposed to lose, they lose. Simple as that.

By putting down Harden/Paul, I am not saying others are better. I don't think any team is challenging GS currently, so this is all wasted key strokes. But what matters for individuals, is HOW they win or lose. If Harden goes down swinging with a 40 point masterpiece against the Spurs, nobody blasts him. But he didn't, he sucked the floor up, and his team got blown out of the building.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 10:03 AM
First Bolded: That's kind of the argument isn't it? CP3 and Harden have been around for a long while and still no rings. Yeah, Harden has 4 season ending bad performances in the playoffs. Out of 8 attempts. Name another player that had a 50% failure rate in terms of postseason ending performances in their resume. The only 2 in the Top 25 that approach that level are D-Rob and Karl Malone, and surprise, neither are thought of as Top 10 despite clearly having the stats and/or longevity to merit it. Neither has rings as the main man either, so that is fairly telling as well.

Second Bolded: In your earlier post you said that CP3 made the Clippers title contenders. So were they title contenders or weren't they? You can't argue they were with CP3 but that CP3 didn't have any title contending teams. Either he did or he didn't.

bingo

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 10:04 AM
I think Houston will do damage in the playoffs this year

I do too. I think they have too much firepower to not make the WCF's, unless Harden and/or Paul go missing. But against the Dubs? That is a 4-2 series, at most imo.

Tg11
12-14-2017, 11:13 AM
At least with a Rockets/Warriors series it would be competitive

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 11:34 AM
At least with a Rockets/Warriors series it would be competitive

hopefully. I don't think it would be all that competitive unfortunately, the Rockets would probably win a game, but they would also likely be taking a couple of double digit losses. 4-1, or 4-2 if they get hot probably.

Not sure why people are missing how good GS really is.

Scoots
12-14-2017, 01:05 PM
hopefully. I don't think it would be all that competitive unfortunately, the Rockets would probably win a game, but they would also likely be taking a couple of double digit losses. 4-1, or 4-2 if they get hot probably.

Not sure why people are missing how good GS really is.

I think the Warriors are playing tired/soft more often than not. They are not playing as pretty/elite as they were last year. What Kerr is doing is experimenting with lineups and as each game goes by they are getting better. 3rd best record in the NBA after 28 games with 16 games missed by starters and a bunch of games lost for backups too. It's always a concern if a team can "turn it on" for the playoffs though and the Rockets are playing great, and with more attitude than any time in the last few years at least.

lol, please
12-14-2017, 01:14 PM
That's all he does haha. waits for someone to make a post he agrees with because he doesn't know how to string up sentencesI drop it when it's warranted lol.

Don't act like you haven't seen walls of text of mine before. Some of us do have jobs and chit lol.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

WaDe03
12-14-2017, 01:27 PM
I drop it when it's warranted lol.

Don't act like you haven't seen walls of text of mine before. Some of us do have jobs and chit lol.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Very well said. Excellent post. Extravagant.

FlashBolt
12-14-2017, 01:35 PM
I drop it when it's warranted lol.

Don't act like you haven't seen walls of text of mine before. Some of us do have jobs and chit lol.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Agreed. Well said.
Klay is wet.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2017, 01:48 PM
I think the Warriors are playing tired/soft more often than not. They are not playing as pretty/elite as they were last year. What Kerr is doing is experimenting with lineups and as each game goes by they are getting better. 3rd best record in the NBA after 28 games with 16 games missed by starters and a bunch of games lost for backups too. It's always a concern if a team can "turn it on" for the playoffs though and the Rockets are playing great, and with more attitude than any time in the last few years at least.

After their 73 win season, GS's priorities likely shifted. They could care less about the regular season as far as win total goes, or setting goals for anything outside getting ready for the real games. They are light years ahead of every other team. It's game 25-30. Not game 80. I don't see any competition for them.

nastynice
12-14-2017, 02:10 PM
Very well said. Excellent post. Extravagant.


Agreed. Well said.
Klay is wet.

You two beating each other off in front of the whole forum to see, yet you gonna take shots at someone else..?

Cmon fellas, wake up

Vee-Rex
12-14-2017, 03:09 PM
Agreed. Well said.
Klay is wet.

:laugh2:

WaDe03
12-14-2017, 04:37 PM
You two beating each other off in front of the whole forum to see, yet you gonna take shots at someone else..?

Cmon fellas, wake up

Just because you're a 2 pump kind of guy doesn't mean you need to take it out on us!

mightybosstone
12-14-2017, 05:26 PM
yep, all very true man. It's not as if Harden/Paul haven't had playoff games/series where they were awesome. I guess I just don't have any faith in either of them when it comes to manning up and beating the Warriors. That might not even be a slight at them, I frankly don't think any team stands a chance. Compound that with the very recent dud Harden laid in the playoffs, and Paul not being that dominant Hornet player we saw recently, can you really blame anyone for thinking this way?
I don't blame them. I get it. But I also think think the average fan is too easily swayed by surface-level narratives and the idea that rings are the most important factor in a player's legacy. James Harden and Chris Paul are damn good basketball players who will both likely end up in the all-time top 20-30 conversation, and Mike D'Antoni is one of the better, more revolutionary basketball coaches of the last 20 years. Period.

As a Minnesota fan, you can probably remember the days when KG got scrutinized for his lack of team success with the Wolves. Do you think his legacy is viewed the same way if he doesn't join that superteam in Boston? What about Pierce and Allen? Sometimes it just finding the right combination of players and coaches to overcome those challenges and get to the promised land.

mightybosstone
12-14-2017, 05:32 PM
hopefully. I don't think it would be all that competitive unfortunately, the Rockets would probably win a game, but they would also likely be taking a couple of double digit losses. 4-1, or 4-2 if they get hot probably.

Not sure why people are missing how good GS really is.


After their 73 win season, GS's priorities likely shifted. They could care less about the regular season as far as win total goes, or setting goals for anything outside getting ready for the real games. They are light years ahead of every other team. It's game 25-30. Not game 80. I don't see any competition for them.

So, I think you have to take a step back for a second. Look at pretty much every post in this thread. Do you see anybody saying "The Rockets are unequivocally better than the Warriors?" I don't think I've seen anyone, even Rockets fans, claiming that.

And it's easy to say "The Rockets are great, but they'll get killed by the Warriors just like everybody else, so it doesn't matter." But take literally every NBA team since the 90s Jordan/Pippen Bulls. Is there a roster in that entire time period that would have stood a chance against this Warriors team at its peak and healthy on paper? Probably not.

My point in saying this is that the Warriors greatness shouldn't completely diminish the Rockets greatness. And even if the Warriors are unquestionably the best team in the league today, I'd argue that the Rockets are unquestionably the second best team right now. If the Warriors weren't around, the conversation about this team and the tone around them would be totally different.

And even with the Warriors being the juggernaut that they are, the playoffs are still the playoffs. Historic teams have gotten upset before, and it could feasibly happen again. Even if I wouldn't put money on Houston to beat this team at full strength, I think they have a better chance to take them down than any other squad.

Wisdom Listens
12-14-2017, 05:42 PM
Yes.

http://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/group/league

Scoots
12-14-2017, 10:12 PM
By putting down Harden/Paul, I am not saying others are better. I don't think any team is challenging GS currently, so this is all wasted key strokes. But what matters for individuals, is HOW they win or lose. If Harden goes down swinging with a 40 point masterpiece against the Spurs, nobody blasts him. But he didn't, he sucked the floor up, and his team got blown out of the building.

And before that against the Warriors, in game 4 he shot 4 for 13, but had a good all-around game, and missed the 5th game for the gentleman's sweep. The year before that he shot 2 for 11 with 12 turnovers in the elimination game vs the Warriors in the conference finals.

Harden is an incredible player, and he's been pretty much alone driving his teams forward so whenever he has a bad game the result is likely a loss ... but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth when the same player has his worst game in his last game of the season multiple years in a row. Hopefully him having CP3 will be a game changer for him.

Scoots
12-14-2017, 10:19 PM
So, I think you have to take a step back for a second. Look at pretty much every post in this thread. Do you see anybody saying "The Rockets are unequivocally better than the Warriors?" I don't think I've seen anyone, even Rockets fans, claiming that.

And it's easy to say "The Rockets are great, but they'll get killed by the Warriors just like everybody else, so it doesn't matter." But take literally every NBA team since the 90s Jordan/Pippen Bulls. Is there a roster in that entire time period that would have stood a chance against this Warriors team at its peak and healthy on paper? Probably not.

My point in saying this is that the Warriors greatness shouldn't completely diminish the Rockets greatness. And even if the Warriors are unquestionably the best team in the league today, I'd argue that the Rockets are unquestionably the second best team right now. If the Warriors weren't around, the conversation about this team and the tone around them would be totally different.

And even with the Warriors being the juggernaut that they are, the playoffs are still the playoffs. Historic teams have gotten upset before, and it could feasibly happen again. Even if I wouldn't put money on Houston to beat this team at full strength, I think they have a better chance to take them down than any other squad.

If they were younger and built more from draft picks this Rockets team would be like the 2015 Warriors ... they were good and then the league was surprised by how good they got. It takes a while for people to believe. I remember all the jawing back and forth in the 2014 off-season about who was better between the Warriors and Rockets ... then Chandler got hurt.

lol, please
12-14-2017, 11:13 PM
You two beating each other off in front of the whole forum to see, yet you gonna take shots at someone else..?

Cmon fellas, wake up:laugh2:

They think it agitates me. I know what will get me in trouble on PSD and I stay away from it lol. The jelousy and hate of the Warriors is real tho.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
12-15-2017, 09:37 AM
If fully healthy for the rest of the season... do the Rockets have a shot to win 74 games? I think it's possible...

Hawkeye15
12-15-2017, 09:58 AM
I don't blame them. I get it. But I also think think the average fan is too easily swayed by surface-level narratives and the idea that rings are the most important factor in a player's legacy. James Harden and Chris Paul are damn good basketball players who will both likely end up in the all-time top 20-30 conversation, and Mike D'Antoni is one of the better, more revolutionary basketball coaches of the last 20 years. Period.

As a Minnesota fan, you can probably remember the days when KG got scrutinized for his lack of team success with the Wolves. Do you think his legacy is viewed the same way if he doesn't join that superteam in Boston? What about Pierce and Allen? Sometimes it just finding the right combination of players and coaches to overcome those challenges and get to the promised land.

First paragraph-absolutely man. Both players are great, and will end up first ballot HOF'ers. Nothing wrong with that. You are right on as far as mainstream fans too.

Second paragraph- I grew up watching KG, and my basketball intellect (or lack of) grew during his career. I used to be that guy who said if you swapped him and Duncan, the Spurs wouldn't have missed a beat. That is wrong. KG shrunk in the playoffs, all the time. That kills your rep, and Harden and Paul have done the same at times. That stuff matters.

Hawkeye15
12-15-2017, 10:00 AM
So, I think you have to take a step back for a second. Look at pretty much every post in this thread. Do you see anybody saying "The Rockets are unequivocally better than the Warriors?" I don't think I've seen anyone, even Rockets fans, claiming that.

And it's easy to say "The Rockets are great, but they'll get killed by the Warriors just like everybody else, so it doesn't matter." But take literally every NBA team since the 90s Jordan/Pippen Bulls. Is there a roster in that entire time period that would have stood a chance against this Warriors team at its peak and healthy on paper? Probably not.

My point in saying this is that the Warriors greatness shouldn't completely diminish the Rockets greatness. And even if the Warriors are unquestionably the best team in the league today, I'd argue that the Rockets are unquestionably the second best team right now. If the Warriors weren't around, the conversation about this team and the tone around them would be totally different.

And even with the Warriors being the juggernaut that they are, the playoffs are still the playoffs. Historic teams have gotten upset before, and it could feasibly happen again. Even if I wouldn't put money on Houston to beat this team at full strength, I think they have a better chance to take them down than any other squad.

no doubt **** happens, injuries happen, things come up. Dynasties are meant to fall. So I get it, why not the Rockets, right?

Before we say the Rockets are the best option to take the Dubs out, I would like to see a healthy Spurs team. But yes, the Rox are a great team this year, and just because they play in a time where one team is exponentially better than any other team on paper (and in reality), doesn't mean we discard them.

Hawkeye15
12-15-2017, 10:01 AM
And before that against the Warriors, in game 4 he shot 4 for 13, but had a good all-around game, and missed the 5th game for the gentleman's sweep. The year before that he shot 2 for 11 with 12 turnovers in the elimination game vs the Warriors in the conference finals.

Harden is an incredible player, and he's been pretty much alone driving his teams forward so whenever he has a bad game the result is likely a loss ... but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth when the same player has his worst game in his last game of the season multiple years in a row. Hopefully him having CP3 will be a game changer for him.

yep. And the best of the best just don't do that repetitively.

WaDe03
12-15-2017, 10:41 AM
:laugh2:

They think it agitates me. I know what will get me in trouble on PSD and I stay away from it lol. The jelousy and hate of the Warriors is real tho.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Very well said. Good post.

mightybosstone
12-15-2017, 10:57 AM
If they were younger and built more from draft picks this Rockets team would be like the 2015 Warriors ... they were good and then the league was surprised by how good they got. It takes a while for people to believe. I remember all the jawing back and forth in the 2014 off-season about who was better between the Warriors and Rockets ... then Chandler got hurt.

Yeah, it's crazy to think back on those battles. Rockets fans honestly thought Houston had the superior team and they would dominate the Warriors fans for years. Little did we know what was right around the corner. There was just no way to predict how good Curry, Green and Thompson were going to end up or that Durant would jump ship and join them.

europagnpilgrim
12-15-2017, 11:08 AM
yep. And the best of the best just don't do that repetitively.

so when Jordan had those awful stretches in crunch time against his nemesis BadBoys did that mean he wasn't the best of the best? c'mon man even the best of the best went through it

Kobe had like a 6 for 30 game in Finals, such a ugly last game but they won, that's the bad taste, had Harden and his team won during those losses it would be viewed differently, and I don't know why because he played like **** rather they won or lost, its how I looked at Kobe in 10' Finals game 7

europagnpilgrim
12-15-2017, 11:12 AM
Yeah, it's crazy to think back on those battles. Rockets fans honestly thought Houston had the superior team and they would dominate the Warriors fans for years. Little did we know what was right around the corner. There was just no way to predict how good Curry, Green and Thompson were going to end up or that Durant would jump ship and join them.


it was hard to gauge Curry early in nba career because of those freak ankle accidents, other than that if you go look at him at Davidson it was clear as day you draft him over Griffin, a undersized freak athlete, Curry was lighting it up at Davidson with sick range

Green is what he was at Michigan St, didn't watch much of Klay preNBA but I am pretty damn sure he entered the league with his flamethrower, I didn't see 3 straight finals but I figured they would have to take over for Cali after Lakers fell off and the Clipps are the bastard stepchild of Staples/LA(bball wise), its always good to have a dominant Cali team in any major sport, GS was up next after Lakers fell off the cliff

Hawkeye15
12-15-2017, 11:35 AM
so when Jordan had those awful stretches in crunch time against his nemesis BadBoys did that mean he wasn't the best of the best? c'mon man even the best of the best went through it

Kobe had like a 6 for 30 game in Finals, such a ugly last game but they won, that's the bad taste, had Harden and his team won during those losses it would be viewed differently, and I don't know why because he played like **** rather they won or lost, its how I looked at Kobe in 10' Finals game 7

And if Harden/Paul reverse their past failures and win titles while playing dominating basketball, like the 2 you mentioned here, guess what? They are looked at much more positively.

Do you think Jordan was looked at as the GOAT in 1990? Was Kobe a top 13 player ever in 2005?

Jordan was dominating well before his titles, to the likes Harden/Paul have not btw...those "awful" stretches against the Pistons? 32-7-6-2, and 30-6.5-5.5, while producing far and away the best game scores of all players in each series, is awful? Interesting...

drivennowork
12-15-2017, 01:31 PM
Rockets have had an easy schedule since Paul returned. We’ll see how they do against the Spurs with Kawhi tonight and Milwaukee tomorrow

Edit:
Okay so this is driven, and I logged on using Tapatalk which I hardly ever use, and for some reason it logged me into an alternate account I created I think when I was a mod.

So you can delete these posts or whatever you need to do. I don’t even know how I logged in. I have no idea what the password to this is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scoots
12-15-2017, 03:42 PM
If fully healthy for the rest of the season... do the Rockets have a shot to win 74 games? I think it's possible...

They will have to play even better than they have been ... but more power to them, I hope they do it. I guarantee they will not sweep the Warriors, so that's 1 of the four losses they have left if not 2.

Tg11
12-15-2017, 03:47 PM
Rockets I don't think they will get to 74 wins if anything I can see them getting to like 60 wins or even 65 or 66 tops but nowhere near 73 or 74...no way

valade16
12-15-2017, 04:30 PM
So, I think you have to take a step back for a second. Look at pretty much every post in this thread. Do you see anybody saying "The Rockets are unequivocally better than the Warriors?" I don't think I've seen anyone, even Rockets fans, claiming that.

And it's easy to say "The Rockets are great, but they'll get killed by the Warriors just like everybody else, so it doesn't matter." But take literally every NBA team since the 90s Jordan/Pippen Bulls. Is there a roster in that entire time period that would have stood a chance against this Warriors team at its peak and healthy on paper? Probably not.

My point in saying this is that the Warriors greatness shouldn't completely diminish the Rockets greatness. And even if the Warriors are unquestionably the best team in the league today, I'd argue that the Rockets are unquestionably the second best team right now. If the Warriors weren't around, the conversation about this team and the tone around them would be totally different.

And even with the Warriors being the juggernaut that they are, the playoffs are still the playoffs. Historic teams have gotten upset before, and it could feasibly happen again. Even if I wouldn't put money on Houston to beat this team at full strength, I think they have a better chance to take them down than any other squad.

I agree with this and it re-affirms my distates for what the Warriors have done to the league in terms of sucking any vestige of competitiveness from the final outcome.

Scoots
12-15-2017, 05:51 PM
Rockets I don't think they will get to 74 wins if anything I can see them getting to like 60 wins or even 65 or 66 tops but nowhere near 73 or 74...no way

74 wins is such a HUGE task. If you lose 2 games you have to win more than 18 to stay on that pace. The Rockets are doing great at 22-4 but to stay on pace for 74 wins they have to win the next 15 games in a row to get on the pace and then they have to maintain that insane pace for the remainder of the year.

FlashBolt
12-15-2017, 05:54 PM
74 wins is such a HUGE task. If you lose 2 games you have to win more than 18 to stay on that pace. The Rockets are doing great at 22-4 but to stay on pace for 74 wins they have to win the next 15 games in a row to get on the pace and then they have to maintain that insane pace for the remainder of the year.

Also not worth chasing. We saw what happened with the Warriors. Almost seemed as if they saw that as their championship.

lol, please
12-15-2017, 05:59 PM
Yeah, it's crazy to think back on those battles. Rockets fans honestly thought Houston had the superior team and they would dominate the Warriors fans for years. Little did we know what was right around the corner. There was just no way to predict how good Curry, Green and Thompson were going to end up or that Durant would jump ship and join them.And Dwight also thought the Rockets had a better future at the time.

:laugh2:

Glad to see the Rockets take that next step and become neck and neck with this Warrior team, it's a fun rivalry.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

lol, please
12-15-2017, 06:01 PM
So, I think you have to take a step back for a second. Look at pretty much every post in this thread. Do you see anybody saying "The Rockets are unequivocally better than the Warriors?" I don't think I've seen anyone, even Rockets fans, claiming that.

And it's easy to say "The Rockets are great, but they'll get killed by the Warriors just like everybody else, so it doesn't matter." But take literally every NBA team since the 90s Jordan/Pippen Bulls. Is there a roster in that entire time period that would have stood a chance against this Warriors team at its peak and healthy on paper? Probably not.

My point in saying this is that the Warriors greatness shouldn't completely diminish the Rockets greatness. And even if the Warriors are unquestionably the best team in the league today, I'd argue that the Rockets are unquestionably the second best team right now. If the Warriors weren't around, the conversation about this team and the tone around them would be totally different.

And even with the Warriors being the juggernaut that they are, the playoffs are still the playoffs. Historic teams have gotten upset before, and it could feasibly happen again. Even if I wouldn't put money on Houston to beat this team at full strength, I think they have a better chance to take them down than any other squad.Well said. Totally agree with everything here.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
12-15-2017, 06:03 PM
74 wins is such a HUGE task. If you lose 2 games you have to win more than 18 to stay on that pace. The Rockets are doing great at 22-4 but to stay on pace for 74 wins they have to win the next 15 games in a row to get on the pace and then they have to maintain that insane pace for the remainder of the year.

Yeah, you guys are right.

I just looked at the Rockets schedule too... their next 25 games are kind of brutal.

vs. Spurs
vs. Warriors
vs. Bucks
@ Spurs
@ Warriors
@ Thunder
@ Celtics
@ Wizards
@ Pistons
@ Cavs

^^10 potential tough games out of 25. That's kind of rough.

I know teams like the Pistons and Bucks and Wizards aren't strong teams but any day they could beat any team especially if they're at home. Not to mention there's probably a few trap games mixed in (@Orlando, @Dallas) mixed in with some okay teams (Minnesota, Portland), and they'll likely have to win 23+ games out of this stretch to even have a shot at 74-8. That's pretty unlikely.

FlashBolt
12-15-2017, 06:05 PM
Well said. Totally agree with everything here.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

I agree. Well said as well. Very wet and good post. Nice, I like it.

FlashBolt
12-15-2017, 06:07 PM
Yeah, you guys are right.

I just looked at the Rockets schedule too... their next 25 games are kind of brutal.

vs. Spurs
vs. Warriors
vs. Bucks
@ Spurs
@ Warriors
@ Thunder
@ Celtics
@ Wizards
@ Pistons
@ Cavs

^^10 potential tough games out of 25. That's kind of rough.

I know teams like the Pistons and Bucks and Wizards aren't strong teams but any day they could beat any team especially if they're at home. Not to mention there's probably a few trap games mixed in (@Orlando, @Dallas) mixed in with some okay teams (Minnesota, Portland), and they'll likely have to win 23+ games out of this stretch to hit 74-8. That's pretty unlikely.

I could see them losing 5 games there but that's not bad.

Tg11
12-15-2017, 06:49 PM
Either way they are proving why they are the cream of the crop in the West having a great year and they are finally coming together. All the right pieces are coming together and falling into place. D'Antoni as their coach is managing to turn this team into an offensive juggernaut in the West and it helps that CP3 & Harden are finding their chemistry early.

FlashBolt
12-15-2017, 06:55 PM
Either way they are proving why they are the cream of the crop in the West having a great year and they are finally coming together. All the right pieces are coming together and falling into place. D'Antoni as their coach is managing to turn this team into an offensive juggernaut in the West and it helps that CP3 & Harden are finding their chemistry early.

When has D'Antoni not proven he is an offensive juggernaut of a coach? I mean, his stint for the Knicks was so bad yet, Knicks were top 2-5 in scoring every season.

Tg11
12-15-2017, 06:56 PM
When has D'Antoni not proven he is an offensive juggernaut of a coach? I mean, his stint for the Knicks was so bad yet, Knicks were top 2-5 in scoring every season.

Okay but granted those Knicks teams he coached were not as good as the Rockets team that he is coaching right now and his team like it or not is coming together winning night after night. They are 22-4 mind you and also Harden is putting up MVP like numbers. Not to mention with CP3 out they managed to win that many games and with him in the line-up they have been undefeated thus far.

FlashBolt
12-15-2017, 07:03 PM
Okay but granted those Knicks teams he coached were not as good as the Rockets team that he is coaching right now and his team like it or not is coming together winning night after night. They are 22-4 mind you and also Harden is putting up MVP like numbers. Not to mention with CP3 out they managed to win that many games and with him in the line-up they have been undefeated thus far.

yeah, their defense has been surprising. ma boute/CP3/tucker are helping them a lot there. It's actually quite weird seeing a Mike'D roster play defense. I guess they realized that shooting the ball can only go so far.

Tg11
12-15-2017, 07:06 PM
Yeah and it also helps that Harden has been playing that much better with CP3. Granted last year Harden really had no help and now he has CP3 helping him out picking up the slack. The new dynamic duo but if they can add yet another piece to that puzzle then I definitely can say that they can dethrone Golden State. However, do I think they can dethrone GSW this season? Probably not when it comes to the playoffs...at least not yet but give or take a year I say they can

Tg11
12-19-2017, 02:12 PM
In the West those boys in Houston have been making believers out of people winning 14 games in a row...I mean the last time Houston even had a win streak where it has gone double-digits was their 22 game winning streak way back in 2008, and could they match that? I still say it is too soon to call. However, CP3, Harden and company have been winning games and winning them decisively.

Not to mention offensively they have perhaps one of the best line-ups right now in the NBA not just in the paint but from 3-point land. Defensively, they are probably one of the best teams in basketball right now and their bench is coming through for them in the clutch.

Vinylman
12-19-2017, 02:23 PM
wow great thread...

can you provide us your thoughts on unicorns and rainbows if you aren't to busy

LOb0
12-19-2017, 02:27 PM
Wake me when the playoffs start. I've seen enough regular season success from those two and that "Coach".

I'd love for them to knock off GS but the faith of these team even getting to GS isn't strong.

Tg11
12-19-2017, 02:31 PM
Well right now they are one of the best teams in basketball stress the word one of but at the same time in the West they are "out Warrioring" the Warriors right now I mean how could you not be impressed? Not to mention with that addition of CP3 into that system with Harden and with D'Antoni's coaching too I mean they are finding ways to win basketball games

mightybosstone
12-19-2017, 02:53 PM
Wake me when the playoffs start. I've seen enough regular season success from those two and that "Coach".

I'd love for them to knock off GS but the faith of these team even getting to GS isn't strong.

It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.

Tg11
12-19-2017, 02:54 PM
Capela has been a beast for the Rockets too

WaDe03
12-19-2017, 03:04 PM
It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.

He may be upset over the other thread where everyone knows the Rockets would smack the Celtics in a series.

Chronz
12-19-2017, 03:28 PM
He may be upset over the other thread where everyone knows the Rockets would smack the Celtics in a series.

Also has first hand experience with a playoff underachieving coach. He thinks there's only one good coach and team each year.

WaDe03
12-19-2017, 03:30 PM
Also has first hand experience with a playoff underachieving coach. He thinks there's only one good coach and team each year.

Yea his coach has won 2 series in his career lol.

Hustla23
12-19-2017, 04:05 PM
Incredible how disrespected D'antoni is even still lol. This is how Trump got elected, people just faithfully adopting mantras with no ounce of critical thinking employed whatsoever.

Chronz
12-19-2017, 04:14 PM
Incredible how disrespected D'antoni is even still lol. This is how Trump got elected, people just faithfully adopting mantras with no ounce of critical thinking employed whatsoever.

Pretty sure that's how Hillary nearly won

WaDe03
12-19-2017, 05:07 PM
Pretty sure that's how Hillary nearly won

They're both a joke.

mightybosstone
12-19-2017, 05:21 PM
They're both a joke.

Hillary was a former First Lady, senator and the secretary of state. Trump was a shady billionaire with a number of failed business endeavors, a zillion scandals and allegations of illegal or immoral business practices, and was the host of a freaking reality television show. You tell me who was more qualified to be president of the most powerful nation in the world.

lol, please
12-19-2017, 06:54 PM
Hillary was a former First Lady, senator and the secretary of state. Trump was a shady billionaire with a number of failed business endeavors, a zillion scandals and allegations of illegal or immoral business practices, and was the host of a freaking reality television show. You tell me who was more qualified to be president of the most powerful nation in the world.So you're content choosing the lesser of two evils? Neither should be president - of even a social club.


I haven't seen a candidate worthy of my vote in my lifetime. I haven't seen a candidate I would follow, as a soldier, and man, in my lifetime. When I do, I might vote for them.



Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

lol, please
12-19-2017, 06:54 PM
wow great thread...

can you provide us your thoughts on unicorns and rainbows if you aren't to busy****ing lol'd.

Great minds...

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

cmellofan15
12-19-2017, 06:59 PM
So you're content choosing the lesser of two evils? Neither should be president - of even a social club.


I haven't seen a candidate worthy of my vote in my lifetime. I haven't seen a candidate I would follow, as a soldier, and man, in my lifetime. When I do, I might vote for them.



Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

This is taking a turn—but recently McCain and Obama were pretty good candidates...think you’re being a bit dramatic here

TrueFan420
12-19-2017, 07:15 PM
It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.

He does take a lot of heat. He's been hugely influential. Always wondered why he never went out and found a top defensive mind that could help blend with his schemes and maximize his team. It could have elevated him to another level.

Same with Don Nelson.

LOb0
12-19-2017, 11:45 PM
It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.

Run and shoot at will. He literally was telling players to allow layups so they could score faster at the other end. That's why he flames out in the playoffs every year despite how much talent he has. He disregards one side of the floor and even goes out of the way to make it seem like it's a not a factor.

LOb0
12-19-2017, 11:50 PM
Also has first hand experience with a playoff underachieving coach. He thinks there's only one good coach and team each year.

No, I've been a D'antoni basher since like 2007ish. Harden since he assisted LeBron in winning the 2012 title and CP3 since well you'd know that because you're a Clippers fan, You'd have those failures documented. Which hurt worse? OKC or Houston? Gotta be Houston right?

lol, please
12-20-2017, 12:30 AM
It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.I think this is a great post. I've wondered the same since the Knicks days....why does he get so much flak? It's ridiculous.

Who cares if he runs a high paced all offense system, it's fun to watch.

Not every team is going to be elite on both ends of the floor anyway. With the right players his system works. Period.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

tredigs
12-20-2017, 12:46 AM
It's ridiculous the lack of respect D'Antoni gets on this forum. If you don't like the guy's play style, that's fine. But don't insult the man. He's easily one of the 10 most important coaches of the last 20 years, and so much of what he's done offensively has helped revolutionize the NBA. Throw in the fact that his teams have won 54 percent of their games and his work with Team USA, and I think he's earned some respect.

There are a ton of teams in the league today that would probably rather have D'Antoni than their current coach.
The problem is that Pop can read Mike D'Antoni's soul and has consistently dominated him in the playoffs with or without the better regular season team. Now Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni are on their righteous path to never make the Finals... together. It. Is. Their. Destiny.

LOb0
12-20-2017, 12:59 AM
I think this is a great post. I've wondered the same since the Knicks days....why does he get so much flak? It's ridiculous.

Who cares if he runs a high paced all offense system, it's fun to watch.

Not every team is going to be elite on both ends of the floor anyway. With the right players his system works. Period.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Till the playoffs. If you want to win a ton of regular season games and have a fun to watch team. Hire D'antoni. If your goal is to have playoff success stay the hell away from this man. It's not even about being "Elite" on both ends. Its the complete lack of respect he gives defense. You cannot win a title with that attitude.



The problem is that Pop can read Mike D'Antoni's soul and has consistently dominated him in the playoffs with or without the better regular season team. Now Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni are on their righteous path to never make the Finals... together. It. Is. Their. Destiny.

lol God I love that narrative. For all my bashing of Houston it isn't due to hatred. I'd love for them to knock off GS. CP3 is one guy that I felt was asked to do too much in LA. They were basically asking a 6'0 PG that isn't particularly fast to close games. Doesn't excuse his collapses but I want to see him at least get a finals appearance. Harden needs to redeem himself and this would be a perfect year.

lol, please
12-20-2017, 01:19 AM
I'd love for them to knock off GS.

No love for the Warriors?

[emoji17]

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

LOb0
12-20-2017, 01:24 AM
No love for the Warriors?

[emoji17]

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

I really hate you guys if I want a D'antoni team to knock you off. Though that's more due to the coward Durant than anything personal to the Warriors.

It's funny how The Warriors was pretty much a beloved team till he came aboard.

sagemania
12-20-2017, 03:14 AM
Best record in the league, 14 game winning streak and won 21 of there last 22 so yes. Right now they are

LA4life24/8
12-20-2017, 12:53 PM
They prolly finish w the #1 seed in the West and same w celts in the east, But come playoff time it won't matter.

They won't take out golden state and celts wont take out cleveland.

With that said they are playing damn good ball but i dont believe a dantoni led team will ever win a chip.

Chronz
12-20-2017, 02:33 PM
No, I've been a D'antoni basher since like 2007ish. Harden since he assisted LeBron in winning the 2012 title and CP3 since well you'd know that because you're a Clippers fan, You'd have those failures documented. Which hurt worse? OKC or Houston? Gotta be Houston right?

I never knew taking a superior team to the brink of elimination whilst recovering from injury after slaying the defending champs is suppose to hurt me as a fan of the team lol. OKC kind of hurts but it's pretty impressive for likely the 3rd best player in the series (2nd at best) to do what he did. Not seeing your point about harden as he made his bones with what he did without rwb all year long, OKC hasn't been back without him. Point remains you must hate your team if you're bashing these many legends

Chronz
12-20-2017, 02:35 PM
The problem is that Pop can read Mike D'Antoni's soul and has consistently dominated him in the playoffs with or without the better regular season team. Now Harden, CP3 and D'Antoni are on their righteous path to never make the Finals... together. It. Is. Their. Destiny.
One problem.

Cp3 doesn't fear pop

It's the other way around

Chronz
12-20-2017, 02:36 PM
They're both a joke.

Pretty sure that's why turnout was low.

Chronz
12-20-2017, 02:37 PM
Hillary was a former First Lady, senator and the secretary of state. Trump was a shady billionaire with a number of failed business endeavors, a zillion scandals and allegations of illegal or immoral business practices, and was the host of a freaking reality television show. You tell me who was more qualified to be president of the most powerful nation in the world.

Trump. You left out Hillary's far greater scandals

Edit. Just realized you think being a former first lady is suppose to warrant recognition for their new position. Lmfao, even when I was grandstanding for Hillary I didn't stoop that low man. Jesus get a grip man

Scoots
12-20-2017, 02:38 PM
The Warriors have played more road games than any other team and are 1.5 games back of the Rockets while having major injury issues. The Rockets are playing great and have the best record ... but I'm not so sure they are the best team in the NBA just yet. We'll know more in the next month once the Warriors have played the Rockets 2 times in Houston.

mightybosstone
12-20-2017, 03:32 PM
The Warriors have played more road games than any other team and are 1.5 games back of the Rockets while having major injury issues. The Rockets are playing great and have the best record ... but I'm not so sure they are the best team in the NBA just yet. We'll know more in the next month once the Warriors have played the Rockets 2 times in Houston.

I still believe the Warriors are the better team than Houston, but this sample size of the regular season has nothing to do with it. Houston has dealt with major injury issues as well. They still went 10-4 without Paul. So far, they've been the better team regardless of injuries and schedules, and they proved it on opening night.

It's the playoffs and the postseason experience has makes the Warriors better. But, regular season, I still think there's a damn good chance the Rockets could finish with a better record, point differential and SRS.

LOb0
12-20-2017, 03:42 PM
I never knew taking a superior team to the brink of elimination whilst recovering from injury after slaying the defending champs is suppose to hurt me as a fan of the team lol. OKC kind of hurts but it's pretty impressive for likely the 3rd best player in the series (2nd at best) to do what he did. Not seeing your point about harden as he made his bones with what he did without rwb all year long, OKC hasn't been back without him. Point remains you must hate your team if you're bashing these many legends

lol only reason they got past SA was due to Parker being hurt. Not seeing my point about Harden? He's the reason they lost. Doing something good doesn't allow you to have a choke job year after year.

I'm justifiably bashing them until they prove me wrong, and all three of those guys need to do so. Get your excuses ready for the playoff collapse. You already have a lot of them as a Clippers fan I see.



One problem.

Cp3 doesn't fear pop

It's the other way around


With a healthy team he doesn't.

mightybosstone
12-20-2017, 03:49 PM
Trump. You left out Hillary's far greater scandals

Edit. Just realized you think being a former first lady is suppose to warrant recognition for their new position. Lmfao, even when I was grandstanding for Hillary I didn't stoop that low man. Jesus get a grip man

Benghazi and the emails were shady, but if the freakin' FBI investigated her and filed no charges, then that's satisfactory to me. That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of Trump's many racist business practices, the failure of Trump University, the now clearly obvious Russian scandal or the many, many sexual harassment/assault allegations that have been made toward him. And that's only the stuff that happened prior to him taking office.

And her being first lady gives her far greater credibility to the role than anything Trump has ever done. You're traveling the world making public appearances, heading up programs on a variety of issues and working hand-in-hand with the president and leading officials in the White House. I'd love to hear how his many Wrestlemania appearances and hosting the Apprentice made him qualified to run the United States.

But this is getting off topic. We're clearly not going to agree on this, so let's just say we agree to disagree and move on to actually talking basketball.

LOb0
12-20-2017, 03:56 PM
Benghazi and the emails were shady, but if the freakin' FBI investigated her and filed no charges, then that's satisfactory to me. That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of Trump's many racist business practices, the failure of Trump University, the now clearly obvious Russian scandal or the many, many sexual harassment/assault allegations that have been made toward him. And that's only the stuff that happened prior to him taking office.

And her being first lady gives her far greater credibility to the role than anything Trump has ever done. You're traveling the world making public appearances, heading up programs on a variety of issues and working hand-in-hand with the president and leading officials in the White House. I'd love to hear how his many Wrestlemania appearances and hosting the Apprentice made him qualified to run the United States.

But this is getting off topic. We're clearly not going to agree on this, so let's just say we agree to disagree and move on to actually talking basketball.


Lets just list what he's done since being in office.

- Travel ban that did nothing but hurt innocents that were actually worked hard and were turned away after they paid to get here because he didn't give a grace period.

- Complete failure with insurance plan

- Tax plan that will take five billion dollars out of the middle class/poor and give it to the rich

- Net Neutrality repeal which will do nothing but make the internet suck.

- Idiotic wall plan fail.

He did however bash ESPN and Jemele Hill which I enjoyed. I'm not going to keep commenting on it as it isn't the place.

Vee-Rex
12-20-2017, 04:00 PM
I really hate you guys if I want a D'antoni team to knock you off. Though that's more due to the coward Durant than anything personal to the Warriors.

It's funny how The Warriors was pretty much a beloved team till he came aboard.

Well said.

The Warriors were universally loved until the cupcake joined them.