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Tg11
10-22-2017, 02:34 PM
Don't get me wrong I think Lonzo is extremely talented as a player. No question about it. Then again the real problem is his father LaVar overshadows his son all the time. LaVar pretty much is living vicariously through his son and given all the press it gives Lonzo it can only put a huge target on his son's back. Now Lonzo has that added pressure not only from his father but playing in Lakerland can Lonzo be an elite player in this league? Can Lonzo truly become the face of this Lakers franchise? Can they truly build around him?

DanG
10-22-2017, 02:42 PM
I don't think pressure gets to him so much. He has handled it very well so far, and he dropped 29/11/9 in his second NBA game. Imagine him a year from now, then two, then three.

Tg11
10-22-2017, 02:44 PM
Yeah but if he is going to be going up against stars like LeBron, Wade, Steph, Durant, Giannis, DeMar & Kyle, Kyrie, etc. then we will see how good he really is

DanG
10-22-2017, 02:49 PM
Yeah but if he is going to be going up against stars like LeBron, Wade, Steph, Durant, Giannis, DeMar & Kyle, Kyrie, etc. then we will see how good he really is

It's played 5 on 5. Has nothing to do with how good of a basketball player he's going to be.

Heediot
10-22-2017, 03:02 PM
Offensively he has the potential to be elite with a combination of Scoring and passing. Don't know if he gets there, but the tools are there. If he puts in the work it's possible.

Tg11
10-22-2017, 03:33 PM
Yeah but will he? Beverley made a fool out of him in his first game and if you put premier defenders on him he won't be able to do much

TylerSL
10-22-2017, 05:06 PM
I think so yes, but it's going to a while. He doesn't really look to be all that quick so far. Maybe he's not in as good of shape as he needs to be but with time that should come. He has the IQ, the floor vision, the ball-handling ability, the shooting, and the defensive potential to be a good player. He's got all the tools he needs, but it's going to a while to put it all together. Give him three years and see how good he will be.

More-Than-Most
10-22-2017, 05:20 PM
i dont think him putting the work in will be an issue... Say what you want about him and his idiotic dad but he raised them to work their ***** off in basketball all the time and you could see it in ball so far... He has had 1 bad game and 1 very good game but the thing in both games was he was the hardest working dude on the floor and that nomatter if he busts is something i can respect... I think his shooting mechanics will still hold him back though but with how bad the lakers defense is he should have the offense scoring a ton much like the other night.


my 1 gripe about DLO was his fire and work ethic... the one thing i loved about kobe was he walked/talked/ate/slept basketball 24/7... lonzo will do the same... I think DLO is more talented but ball has a fire in him DLO didnt have. Fultz/Tatum/Jackson cant compare to that fire... DSJ and Ball will kill themselves it seems for the game.

Bruno
10-22-2017, 05:29 PM
Lonzo is special. He sees the play before it happens. Two games into his career and he's already a league average player. He will be elite by year 4-5 if he stays healthy.

His dad is a non issue, he's a businessman playing tabloid reality against its stupid self for the sake of the baller brand. I see zero connection between how his dad toys with the media for free publicity and what Lonzo can do on the basketball court. it's an act.

tredigs
10-22-2017, 08:08 PM
You're a fool to think what his dad thinks/says has any bearing on his success. Yes, he can and will be a star. Though he will never be a superstar; too slow and can't create his shot at a high enough level. J Kidd is his absolute peak value (trading an earlier 3pt shot for a lack of D).

mrblisterdundee
10-22-2017, 08:23 PM
Yeah but will he? Beverley made a fool out of him in his first game and if you put premier defenders on him he won't be able to do much

Any virgin point guard would have been made a fool of by Mr. 94 Feet. Lonzo still impacted the game in other ways besides scoring. It's only been a couple games, but he's showing some good habits and a lot of that Kidd-sian versatility I've read about.

Oefarmy2005
10-23-2017, 12:57 PM
If he can learn to shoot the ball, he will be special. If he can't, he will be Rubio, but way overhyped because he plays for the Fakers.

Oefarmy2005
10-23-2017, 01:01 PM
Any virgin point guard would have been made a fool of by Mr. 94 Feet. Lonzo still impacted the game in other ways besides scoring. It's only been a couple games, but he's showing some good habits and a lot of that Kidd-sian versatility I've read about.

Hahaha. When somebody says that about Rubio(he was +10 historically when he was on the floor vs when he was off), everyone says, he's a scrub, can't shoot, blah-di-blah-di-blah. But Ball is the the second coming of Magic Johnson. Rubio is so undervalued, it's not even funny. Fn SMH!

Ishkabibble
10-23-2017, 01:24 PM
He's a gifted passer and that'll be the calling card for his career.
Defensively he's atrocious right now. With his size and (lack of) foot speed he'll always have trouble guarding one's and two's. It'll improve but only so far.
Not at all sure about his shooting and scoring ability.
And let's be honest; putting up stats against this year's Phoexix team almost shouldn't count.
They look as bad as any team I've ever seen.

Vinylman
10-23-2017, 01:26 PM
typical troll thread...

yeah but ... yeah but .... yeah but

we get it ... you don't think he will

Cal827
10-23-2017, 04:19 PM
I think he has the intangibles to be the best point guard in the league in the next few years. I know he did terribly, but Beverly might be the best defensive point guard in the league; if guys like Wall, Westbrook, Curry, Lowry, and company have had bad games against this guy, it's understandable that a guy who's playing his first career game didn't exactly light him up. In the other games, he's filled the stat sheets.

He'll need to put in work on both ends (hopefully he doesn't ignore his defensive game; too many guards get killed on the other side of the court), and if he does, we might see a similar prototype to Jason Kidd, but with an actual shot.


** Side note, for all the good things we say about Kidd, but I see that basically nobody picks him off for some of his terrible shooting percentages, even in the contending years... anyone shooting sub .400 now would probably be seated on the bench and scolded by the fans (I know the lower percentages weren't frowned upon that much back then) :laugh2:

TheDish87
10-23-2017, 04:27 PM
I think he has the intangibles to be the best point guard in the league in the next few years. I know he did terribly, but Beverly might be the best defensive point guard in the league; if guys like Wall, Westbrook, Curry, Lowry, and company have had bad games against this guy, it's understandable that a guy who's playing his first career game didn't exactly light him up. In the other games, he's filled the stat sheets.

He'll need to put in work on both ends (hopefully he doesn't ignore his defensive game; too many guards get killed on the other side of the court), and if he does, we might see a similar prototype to Jason Kidd, but with an actual shot.


** Side note, for all the good things we say about Kidd, but I see that basically nobody picks him off for some of his terrible shooting percentages, even in the contending years... anyone shooting sub .400 now would probably be seated on the bench and scolded by the fans (I know the lower percentages weren't frowned upon that much back then) :laugh2:

Kidd is among the all time leaders in 3PT made and shot above league avg his final 10 seasons. Ball doesnt have a reliable jump shot, that motion and release arent gonna do it on this level. he has the tools to be good just about everywhere else but he never screamed special to me, more like solid starter, maybe an all star game or 2.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-24-2017, 01:05 AM
Honestly, if you watched the game you know Beverly did nothing to Ball other than one nice steal. Ball's shots that were missed were wide open. You have to remember he missed the entire preseason except for one game. He's playing with four new guys who themselves had never played together even during the preseason. He's trying to pick his spots and find his way and was tentative. Beverly's defense literally had no effect. He played pretty much the same way versus New Orleans. He doesn't know when to attack and when to pass quite well yet. But he's 19, I wouldn't expect him to.

Beverly defense is good against point guard who like to dribble and attack to score. Ball doesn't play that way at all. He comes off the screen and is always looking to pass. A good one-on-one Defender is rendered useless against screens and a point guard that just wants to kick it out.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-24-2017, 01:15 AM
Kidd is among the all time leaders in 3PT made and shot above league avg his final 10 seasons. Ball doesnt have a reliable jump shot, that motion and release arent gonna do it on this level. he has the tools to be good just about everywhere else but he never screamed special to me, more like solid starter, maybe an all star game or 2.

By that same logic, you could have said Kidd will never be a good 3-point shooter because he had a funky set shot. You said his last 10 years in the league he shot a good perventage, well the dude played a lot more years than 10. That means his first several years in the NBA he was no good at the 3. There's no reason Ball can't be the same type of player.

A lot of people would be made to look like fools if they cast Hardline judgments on players in their first, second,and sometimes even 3rd years. Go look at Paul George's numbers, Kawhi Leonard's, and a host of other NBA players in their second years barely cracking 12 points a game. Those guys are franchise players now who a lot of people probably said they were bust at the end of their second years because this, that, and the other.

Bostonjorge
10-24-2017, 01:36 AM
Ball numbers are actually close to elite.

13 points, 9 rebounds and 9 assists

Its only 3 games so letís see what happens. So far tho heís doing better then just ok.

jaydubb
10-24-2017, 02:51 AM
Yeah but will he? Beverley made a fool out of him in his first game and if you put premier defenders on him he won't be able to do muchBeverley has "made a fool" out of seasoned vets, that's why he's an all NBA defensive 1st team player.... It should not be any sort of indicator on how his career will play out to see Lonzo play subpar against beverly (who is an elite defender) in his very first NBA game...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

chitownkid
10-24-2017, 08:30 AM
Delete this thread hes only played 3 game

Vinylman
10-24-2017, 08:36 AM
Delete this thread hes only played 3 game

best analysis in this thread :clap:

IKnowHoops
10-24-2017, 08:58 AM
Hahaha. When somebody says that about Rubio(he was +10 historically when he was on the floor vs when he was off), everyone says, he's a scrub, can't shoot, blah-di-blah-di-blah. But Ball is the the second coming of Magic Johnson. Rubio is so undervalued, it's not even funny. Fn SMH!

Rubio can't catch Oops and play above the rim. Lonzo can

prodigy
10-24-2017, 09:28 AM
Lonzo has a very good Eye. excellent passer. Good Rebounder But as i said when dealing with Westbrook i don't care much for PG's rebounding (unless long rebounds of course). They should be focused on defense and getting back not doing what ur center and Forwards are paid to do. I haven't seen enough to make an opinion on his defesne but he has good length.

His scoring and shooting are clearly what needs improvement. Ya he got 29 on the suns who played Zero defense. Not even joking i could've scored double digits with that type of defense played on me. Lonzos other 2 games were HORRIBLE. Not sub-par or below avg, HORRIBLE. He needs a lot of work in that area.

My take: If Lonzo can develop a good consistent shot he will be a real good player in this league. If not he will be a slightly better rebounding Ricky Rubio.

Bostonjorge
10-25-2017, 06:10 PM
Lonzo has matched up against. Beverley, Bledsoe and Holiday.

Wall is next up.

beasted86
10-25-2017, 06:38 PM
By that same logic, you could have said Kidd will never be a good 3-point shooter because he had a funky set shot. You said his last 10 years in the league he shot a good perventage, well the dude played a lot more years than 10. That means his first several years in the NBA he was no good at the 3. There's no reason Ball can't be the same type of player.

A lot of people would be made to look like fools if they cast Hardline judgments on players in their first, second,and sometimes even 3rd years. Go look at Paul George's numbers, Kawhi Leonard's, and a host of other NBA players in their second years barely cracking 12 points a game. Those guys are franchise players now who a lot of people probably said they were bust at the end of their second years because this, that, and the other.
Kidd was a stud defender from day one. Comparison doesn't stand up since he's already behind the curve in that regard. But if you're talking only about shooting, I agree no reason he can't improve and become more consistent.

Nonetheless on topic, I don't think Ball will be elite. I think he'll be a premier top 10 PG (IE: Kemba Walker caliber), but not elite.

KobeOwnSU
10-25-2017, 07:03 PM
Elite? He's already better then Curry you son of a *****es!

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jaydubb
10-25-2017, 10:22 PM
Elite? He's already better then Curry you son of a *****es!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk^^

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Lakers + Giants
10-25-2017, 10:51 PM
i dont think him putting the work in will be an issue... Say what you want about him and his idiotic dad but he raised them to work their ***** off in basketball all the time and you could see it in ball so far... He has had 1 bad game and 1 very good game but the thing in both games was he was the hardest working dude on the floor and that nomatter if he busts is something i can respect... I think his shooting mechanics will still hold him back though but with how bad the lakers defense is he should have the offense scoring a ton much like the other night.


my 1 gripe about DLO was his fire and work ethic... the one thing i loved about kobe was he walked/talked/ate/slept basketball 24/7... lonzo will do the same... I think DLO is more talented but ball has a fire in him DLO didnt have. Fultz/Tatum/Jackson cant compare to that fire... DSJ and Ball will kill themselves it seems for the game.

:speechless: :clap: :cheers:

Lakers + Giants
10-25-2017, 10:53 PM
The "Yeah but if he is going to be going up against stars like LeBron, Wade, Steph, Durant, Giannis, DeMar & Kyle, Kyrie, etc. then we will see how good he really is" argument is laughable... so is everyone else in the ****in league...lmfao

M.L.G.A.
10-25-2017, 11:44 PM
His court vision is obviously elite, however having watched every Ball game thus far, I have my doubts:

Not really worried about his 3 point range shooting...

He doesn't really have the quickness that current point guards have, nor does he have a first quick step.
He doesn't have the best handling skills.
He lacks a consistent mid-range or floater
he has a great demeanor, but his playing style also reflects that, especially on D where at times he plays good D and other times he plays very laxed
He lacks the assertiveness/aggressiveness that elite players have

With all this said, it's 3 games into his rookie season, compare to Kobe, KD, Steph, KG rookie years....

Moral of the story, way too many question marks to have any idea if he will be elite, good, role player, or avg...

FlashBolt
10-26-2017, 01:16 AM
The great thing about Lonzo is you don't have to worry about his rebounding, defense, leadership, and maturity. Those are the toughest things to get from a player. His scoring is the only thing holding him back. He needs to be able to drop 20 to get defenders to respect him more.

Max.This
10-26-2017, 01:41 AM
If he can lock up on defense he can be jason kidd. if not, then his ceiling is ricky rubio

Lakers + Giants
10-26-2017, 03:11 AM
If he can lock up on defense he can be jason kidd. if not, then his ceiling is ricky rubio

ricky rubio looks like his floor tbh.

I think he can be either anywhere from ricky rubio to jason kidd.

TheDish87
10-26-2017, 09:00 AM
well Rubio stinks and has never contributed to winning bball so thats not a good way to end up.

hugepatsfan
10-26-2017, 10:03 AM
The great thing about Lonzo is you don't have to worry about his rebounding, defense, leadership, and maturity. Those are the toughest things to get from a player. His scoring is the only thing holding him back. He needs to be able to drop 20 to get defenders to respect him more.

His defense is good?

warfelg
10-26-2017, 10:35 AM
His defense is good?

My thought too.

Heís 6í6Ē and should be able to use his length and body up opposing PGs. Heís not as quick as other PGs but he should be able to use his length to corral them in.

Instead he plays more like a 6í guard who has to play the lane because heís too small to body guys up.

ewing
10-26-2017, 10:51 AM
i dont think him putting the work in will be an issue... Say what you want about him and his idiotic dad but he raised them to work their ***** off in basketball all the time and you could see it in ball so far... He has had 1 bad game and 1 very good game but the thing in both games was he was the hardest working dude on the floor and that nomatter if he busts is something i can respect... I think his shooting mechanics will still hold him back though but with how bad the lakers defense is he should have the offense scoring a ton much like the other night.


my 1 gripe about DLO was his fire and work ethic... the one thing i loved about kobe was he walked/talked/ate/slept basketball 24/7... lonzo will do the same... I think DLO is more talented but ball has a fire in him DLO didnt have. Fultz/Tatum/Jackson cant compare to that fire... DSJ and Ball will kill themselves it seems for the game.

you are right I work out with DLO all the time and he is constantly skipping leg day, never want to work on his defensive slides....

chitownkid
10-26-2017, 11:15 AM
is there a way to report or delete this? he hasnt even played for a month, now were talking about elite...HOF....

is Joe Flacco elite?

you should all be ashamed of yourselves

chitownkid
10-26-2017, 11:17 AM
Ben Simmons is better and will be your ROY.

PS is Lonzo better than MJ already?

PhillySportFan
10-26-2017, 11:20 AM
I think this topic is stupid, way too early. Ask this after the season is over so we have a better idea of his talent.

hugepatsfan
10-26-2017, 11:27 AM
I think this topic is stupid, way too early. Ask this after the season is over so we have a better idea of his talent.

It's ok to have forward looking discussion and not just wait until everything has been proven so we can evaluate. The difference between the good and bad teams are the ones that can project talent, not just evaluate it.

LA4life24/8
10-26-2017, 01:48 PM
I think he will be one day. Not this season, not the next, not the next etc. But eventually yes i think he be at worst a top 15 player in the league during his prime. Id bet closer to top 10 though. My opinion, call me a homer if you like, idc lol.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2017, 02:10 PM
If he can lock up on defense he can be jason kidd. if not, then his ceiling is ricky rubio

but Rubio is an excellent defender...

Hawkeye15
10-26-2017, 02:12 PM
well Rubio stinks and has never contributed to winning bball so thats not a good way to end up.

not Rubio's fault. Since he was a kid, his teams perform better with him on the floor. Every single year, every single team. Sure he has limitations, but I firmly believe Rubio has become one of the more underrated players in the game. This coming from someone who used to blow him up because of his negatives.

I haven't watched enough of Ball, but to say his floor is Rubio, means that worst case, Ball will be a top half starting PG in the league. If you believe that, fair enough.

chitownkid
10-26-2017, 03:06 PM
next thread should be

WILL LONZO WIN MVP

mightybosstone
10-26-2017, 03:17 PM
Can he? It's possible. Will he? I definitely wouldn't bet on it.

Right now, the guy is a poor man's version of Rajon Rondo, but with inferior play in pretty much every possible area except rebounding. And even if he reached Rondo's peak level, I never once considered Rondo to be an "elite" player in the NBA. The guy cracked one All-NBA 3rd team in his career, and I don't consider a guy elite unless he belongs in the top 10 conversation.

Rondo's biggest knock was that he was insanely inefficient offensively despite being such an excellent ball-handler and distributor. He never found a consistent jumper, he took too many ill-advised shots and he he couldn't hit a free throw at an above average rate. Take everything I said about Rondo, and that goes tenfold for Lonzo in the short sample size that has been his career so far. He's averaging 11.5 points on an insane 14.3 shots per game, and his advanced stats make me want to throw up in my mouth.

Lonzo either needs to find his jump shot or take fewer, more efficient shots that he can actually make. But until he fixes that part of his game, he's miles from even being the conversation of a potential All-Star, much less being discussed as "elite." Let's hold off on having a conversation like this until the kid can hit 40+ percent of his shots.

TheDish87
10-26-2017, 03:57 PM
not Rubio's fault. Since he was a kid, his teams perform better with him on the floor. Every single year, every single team. Sure he has limitations, but I firmly believe Rubio has become one of the more underrated players in the game. This coming from someone who used to blow him up because of his negatives.

I haven't watched enough of Ball, but to say his floor is Rubio, means that worst case, Ball will be a top half starting PG in the league. If you believe that, fair enough.

he didnt win nor did he make anyone better. you have a hard on for Rubio everytime his name comes up so im not gonna go back and forth when i know what youre gonna say already.

IndyRealist
10-26-2017, 07:43 PM
he didnt win nor did he make anyone better. you have a hard on for Rubio everytime his name comes up so im not gonna go back and forth when i know what youre gonna say already.

...Rubio makes his teammates better. That's what " his teams perform better with him on the floor" means.

bagwell368
10-26-2017, 08:16 PM
His core isn't very strong. If he goes into a strict program in the offseason we might see good D - next year. He knows what he should do, but seems unable to handle the speed. Don't think it's mental on that front.

His team is also weak, so they cant really help him out. They got lucky that the Wizards forgot how to box out.

Eventually he could be decent with the features of being a good rebounder and great passer. The notion of him EVER being considered for an MVP seems ridiculous - at this point in time.

LOb0
10-26-2017, 09:16 PM
I think he'll be a multi time all star with a Jason Kidd type career. He's so natural getting assists and rebounds. Better shooting and scoring will come down the line.

LOb0
10-26-2017, 09:16 PM
not Rubio's fault. Since he was a kid, his teams perform better with him on the floor. Every single year, every single team. Sure he has limitations, but I firmly believe Rubio has become one of the more underrated players in the game. This coming from someone who used to blow him up because of his negatives.

I haven't watched enough of Ball, but to say his floor is Rubio, means that worst case, Ball will be a top half starting PG in the league. If you believe that, fair enough.

Rubio is garbage. He might be better than his trash back up but that's saying nothing. So glad Minny finally cut ties with him.

tredigs
10-26-2017, 09:54 PM
Rubio is garbage. He might be better than his trash back up but that's saying nothing. So glad Minny finally cut ties with him.

Far from garbage, and clearly better than what they have in Teague. He's a great defender and an incredible playmaker who makes others better, period. He's a garbage scorer, but there is a hell of a lot more to basketball than scoring (like making your team score).

LOb0
10-26-2017, 10:35 PM
Far from garbage, and clearly better than what they have in Teague. He's a great defender and an incredible playmaker who makes others better, period. He's a garbage scorer, but there is a hell of a lot more to basketball than scoring (like making your team score).

Give me Teague any day over Rubio and his busted *** shot.

tredigs
10-26-2017, 11:03 PM
Give me Teague any day over Rubio and his busted *** shot.

Minny got it, and I guarantee they're regretting it. Teague is a better scorer (but not close to special). Rubio is a better... everything else in basketball.

LOb0
10-27-2017, 12:19 AM
Minny got it, and I guarantee they're regretting it. Teague is a better scorer (but not close to special). Rubio is a better... everything else in basketball.

I'm sorry but any positives he has are completely negated by not being able to shoot. It's not like he's putting up prime Rondo stats to balance it.

I'm not sure what measure you're using to say he's better than Teague. Not being able to sag off him on defense alone is an upgrade over the few things Rubio does better.

tredigs
10-27-2017, 12:32 AM
I'm sorry but any positives he has are completely negated by not being able to shoot. It's not like he's putting up prime Rondo stats to balance it.

I'm not sure what measure you're using to say he's better than Teague. Not being able to sag off him on defense alone is an upgrade over the few things Rubio does better.
I'm using the measure that Rubio's teams are better when he's on the court than when he's off, and to a higher degree than Teague's are (this is over years, consistently). Rubio always ranks higher in individual RPM for that reason. He's a better team basketball player, period. If sagging off was capable of working they would fail with him on the court, and he wouldn't still showcase incredible playmaking year after year. He has a SPECIAL talent, Teague has nothing special.

LA_Raiders
10-27-2017, 12:38 AM
Hard to tell now,'if he learns how to shot yes, in not, he will be a good passer, but not elite.

goingfor28
10-27-2017, 01:04 AM
I'm not a fan of the kid, but his court vision is damn good from the little but of Lakers games I've watched so far this year

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More-Than-Most
10-27-2017, 01:05 AM
Rubio does everything better than teage except shoot... Rubio if he were on the wolves this year would be similar to Rondo on the celtics in terms of his assists and a better defender... Wolves ****ed up.

KingstonHawke
10-27-2017, 02:37 AM
No. Every player has limitations, some more than others. So potential is all about are your limitations things that with hard work you can improve dramatically or not. His aren't. It's a lot like assessing Isaiah Thomas. He's never going to be an elite defender. Lonzo has the same issue. But instead of height it's his lack of high end athleticism. He can't stay in front of anyone. And on the flip side, he doesn't have the speed to beat guards consistently off the dribble. He's utterly dependent on the pick and roll, which wouldn't be the end of the world if his shot was more consistent. And even that is a bigger issue than it should be because his form is terrible. Bad form leads to inconsistency because you're shooting based off of feel. FT% is always a good indicator of natural shooting ability, and his is always bad.

Most ironic thing about him is his dad talked him into being overdrafted. No way he should've went over the players he did. I had him ranked as my 5th best PG prospect (including potential). He should've ended up on the Pelicans. His game would've been a great fit there.

LOb0
10-27-2017, 02:48 AM
I'm using the measure that Rubio's teams are better when he's on the court than when he's off, and to a higher degree than Teague's are (this is over years, consistently). Rubio always ranks higher in individual RPM for that reason. He's a better team basketball player, period. If sagging off was capable of working they would fail with him on the court, and he wouldn't still showcase incredible playmaking year after year. He has a SPECIAL talent, Teague has nothing special.

Lmao RPM. Teague was better in VORP, PER, and Win Shares. But lets look at RPM. Also he can shoot the ball. Stop crediting Rubio like he's Gary Payton defensibly. His defense is such a marginal thing.

There is practically nothing that says he's better than Teague.

L8kers4life
10-27-2017, 03:03 AM
Rubio does everything better than teage except shoot... Rubio if he were on the wolves this year would be similar to Rondo on the celtics in terms of his assists and a better defender... Wolves ****ed up.

I agree with you man, Rubio is so under rated on this board it's hilarious, adding Jimmy Butler, Rubio would have been stellar in that line up. Teague was a joke in the east, what did people think he was gonna do in the West. Talk about a team that can't get a PG pick right, Rubio has improved so much and this was the wrong time to move him, Teague could barely play over Schroeder and he is a bum, are you kidding, it's crazy

mngopher35
10-27-2017, 03:04 AM
Ya as a minny fan I would prefer to take Rubio back

L8kers4life
10-27-2017, 03:05 AM
Lmao RPM. Teague was better in VORP, PER, and Win Shares. But lets look at RPM. Also he can shoot the ball. Stop crediting Rubio like he's Gary Payton defensibly. His defense is such a marginal thing.

There is practically nothing that says he's better than Teague.

Except if you actually watch them play. I love the stats being thrown out, just watch the game, if we are playing pickup, you would pick Teague first? Lol

L8kers4life
10-27-2017, 03:18 AM
No. Every player has limitations, some more than others. So potential is all about are your limitations things that with hard work you can improve dramatically or not. His aren't. It's a lot like assessing Isaiah Thomas. He's never going to be an elite defender. Lonzo has the same issue. But instead of height it's his lack of high end athleticism. He can't stay in front of anyone. And on the flip side, he doesn't have the speed to beat guards consistently off the dribble. He's utterly dependent on the pick and roll, which wouldn't be the end of the world if his shot was more consistent. And even that is a bigger issue than it should be because his form is terrible. Bad form leads to inconsistency because you're shooting based off of feel. FT% is always a good indicator of natural shooting ability, and his is always bad.

Most ironic thing about him is his dad talked him into being overdrafted. No way he should've went over the players he did. I had him ranked as my 5th best PG prospect (including potential). He should've ended up on the Pelicans. His game would've been a great fit there.

Lonzo thrives in the fast break, his pick and roll game is definitly not his strength, especially since his jump shot is non existent. Sure he can play the pick and roll, but his strength is to pick up the pace of the game and create fast breaks. It's way too early to be declaring star, bust, roll player or anything else. Let's looks at it for what it is, the Lakers are 2-2 Lonzo is playing ******, can't shoot a lick, yet he leads the Lakers in Rebounds and Assists and he is putting up 11.5 pts 9 assists 9 rebounds and 1 steal, again playing bad he put that up and he turns 20 today. He will be fine, and oh yeah, his teammates love him, Coaches love him, the fans love him, I live here, the Lakers have life right now, we may suck, but the kid has been a breathe of fresh air, our chemistry is great and we are playing a new style of Ball, ISO Ball is mostly gone.

And the best Pg he faced so far shot 2-8 against Lonzo with 1 assist, and 3 TO's which Lonzo Caused 2 of them. He was suppose to be tortured by Wall, yet the only thing Wall did better was score on horrible efficiency going 1-9 in the 4th and OT. Lonzo wasn't even suppose to stop him at all, yet Lonzo had more assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better +/- and took the W. say what you will, this kid will be fine, I don't care how many stupid shooting stats everyone shows, I watch him play I know what I see, I'm just going to enjoy the ride

L8kers4life
10-27-2017, 03:21 AM
No. Every player has limitations, some more than others. So potential is all about are your limitations things that with hard work you can improve dramatically or not. His aren't. It's a lot like assessing Isaiah Thomas. He's never going to be an elite defender. Lonzo has the same issue. But instead of height it's his lack of high end athleticism. He can't stay in front of anyone. And on the flip side, he doesn't have the speed to beat guards consistently off the dribble. He's utterly dependent on the pick and roll, which wouldn't be the end of the world if his shot was more consistent. And even that is a bigger issue than it should be because his form is terrible. Bad form leads to inconsistency because you're shooting based off of feel. FT% is always a good indicator of natural shooting ability, and his is always bad.

Most ironic thing about him is his dad talked him into being overdrafted. No way he should've went over the players he did. I had him ranked as my 5th best PG prospect (including potential). He should've ended up on the Pelicans. His game would've been a great fit there.

Can I see your Prospect ranking list, I need to see this!

L8kers4life
10-27-2017, 03:25 AM
Ya as a minny fan I would prefer to take Rubio back


Utah is going to show Rubios true value, he will enhance every player there, and his style is conducive to that thin Salt Lake City Air, I played football for University of Utah that altitude is nuts, and with Gobert needing shots created for him as well as hood, he was absolutely a great fit. They will make the playoffs. I love Twolves this year as well, in a few weeks, they should start blowing
People out.

LOb0
10-27-2017, 03:55 AM
Except if you actually watch them play. I love the stats being thrown out, just watch the game, if we are playing pickup, you would pick Teague first? Lol


Yeah I watched Rubio throw bricks at the rim as no one guarded him for years.

ldawg
10-27-2017, 06:59 AM
His dad did a great job selling his son. Fultz post injury, Fox, Smith has been more solid. But Lonzo plays for the Lakers so hes going to have the bigger spot light. His rebounding and football passing is good however. Fox should have been the 2nd pick. I think him and Ingram would have been special. Both being able to attack the rim at will. fox ability to score is more in line with todays NBA his quick first step and speed changing can be Tony parker ish. Ball seen to be like a Rhondo its going to boil down to who Lakers put around him.

Vinylman
10-27-2017, 07:53 AM
Can I see your Prospect ranking list, I need to see this!

I was thinking the same thing... we all need a good laugh this morning

TheDish87
10-27-2017, 09:25 AM
Far from garbage, and clearly better than what they have in Teague. He's a great defender and an incredible playmaker who makes others better, period. He's a garbage scorer, but there is a hell of a lot more to basketball than scoring (like making your team score).

who did he make better?

TheDish87
10-27-2017, 09:30 AM
Utah is going to show Rubios true value, he will enhance every player there, and his style is conducive to that thin Salt Lake City Air, I played football for University of Utah that altitude is nuts, and with Gobert needing shots created for him as well as hood, he was absolutely a great fit. They will make the playoffs. I love Twolves this year as well, in a few weeks, they should start blowing
People out.

jazz are really killing it so far at 29th in scoring lol

TheDish87
10-27-2017, 09:31 AM
I was thinking the same thing... we all need a good laugh this morning

i personally had him 4th PG behind Fultz, Smith, Fox but Fox is a coin flip and wouldnt argue anyone having Ball over him. As a prospect def behind Tatum as well

IndyRealist
10-27-2017, 11:10 AM
Lmao RPM. Teague was better in VORP, PER, and Win Shares. But lets look at RPM. Also he can shoot the ball. Stop crediting Rubio like he's Gary Payton defensibly. His defense is such a marginal thing.

There is practically nothing that says he's better than Teague.

Citing PER completely negates your point.

smith&wesson
10-27-2017, 11:12 AM
He's already pretty good... but I still think there's to much hype around him. He is no savior or corner stone.

mightybosstone
10-27-2017, 12:12 PM
He's already pretty good... but I still think there's to much hype around him. He is no savior or corner stone.

Except, statistically, he's really, really, really not. I'm not saying he can't get there, but he's been atrocious so far.

GREATNESS ONE
10-27-2017, 12:16 PM
How is statistically not? He's 4th in the entire league in Assist. Would be even better if Lakers could knock down open buckets. He already leads the Lakers in rebounds and has completely changed the culture of the Lakers. Once his shot starts dropping which is just a little off he's going to be one of the better guards in the league. This is his first year. Lavar pretty much hyped him up and talked so much trash that everyone in the league, all the stars want a piece of this kid. I don't remember the last time that's happened... maybe Lebron.

TheDish87
10-27-2017, 12:53 PM
How is statistically not? He's 4th in the entire league in Assist. Would be even better if Lakers could knock down open buckets. He already leads the Lakers in rebounds and has completely changed the culture of the Lakers. Once his shot starts dropping which is just a little off he's going to be one of the better guards in the league. This is his first year. Lavar pretty much hyped him up and talked so much trash that everyone in the league, all the stars want a piece of this kid. I don't remember the last time that's happened... maybe Lebron.

you know is an irrelevant take as every player ever can use it. im not sure how he changed the culture? Lakers still arent good, started 10-10 and way better than expected last year, and their future relies on hitting a grand slam in free agency

mightybosstone
10-27-2017, 01:43 PM
How is statistically not? He's 4th in the entire league in Assist. Would be even better if Lakers could knock down open buckets. He already leads the Lakers in rebounds and has completely changed the culture of the Lakers. Once his shot starts dropping which is just a little off he's going to be one of the better guards in the league. This is his first year. Lavar pretty much hyped him up and talked so much trash that everyone in the league, all the stars want a piece of this kid. I don't remember the last time that's happened... maybe Lebron.

Assists alone are not a fair barometer of a player's productivity. The guy is taking more than 14 shots per game and missing 10 of them every night. That's beyond abysmal. Combine that with his three turnovers a game (which is actually a totally reasonable number), and that's essentially 13 possessions a game (barring offensive rebounds) that Lonzo is essentially wasting for the Lakers. And that huge problem is why his advanced statistics are so jarringly awful. Aside from AST% and TRB%, there's really not an advanced metric out there that suggests Lonzo hasn't been terrible in this small four-game sample size.

That's why I'm saying we need to wait on any kind of judgment on Lonzo Ball at this point. He's not even worth talking about when he's shooting 32 percent from the floor and taking 14 shots a night.

Hawkeye15
10-27-2017, 01:44 PM
Give me Teague any day over Rubio and his busted *** shot.

we got that. And we are far worse because of it. Teague is a horrendous defender, and if you look at our bigs, if we can't stop guards from coming into the lane we are dead.

Alternatively, while it's only 5 games in, our guys can kiss easy layups and dunks goodbye that they routinely got with Rubio.

So far, and yes, it's a very short sample size, Teague is a gigantic downgrade. Never was a big fan. Will he get better, when his PnR chemistry with our bigs improves? I hope so

Hawkeye15
10-27-2017, 01:46 PM
I'm sorry but any positives he has are completely negated by not being able to shoot. It's not like he's putting up prime Rondo stats to balance it.

I'm not sure what measure you're using to say he's better than Teague. Not being able to sag off him on defense alone is an upgrade over the few things Rubio does better.

explain why every team he has ever played for, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TEAM/YEAR, his team is better with him on the floor.

Rubio has become criminally underrated on this site. never thought I would see that.

Hawkeye15
10-27-2017, 02:07 PM
Rubio is one of those statistical anomalies where everything stat wise points to a negative (poor shooter, high-ish TO at times); but the team is just better with him. It happens from time to time.

for sure. Defensively his metrics are excellent. But he does things that most can't, like create easy shots from broken plays, or get defenses moving just enough to create passing lanes nobody else can make. He just simply plays winning basketball, even if his Wolves teams didn't win. He was one of the single reasons we weren't even worse..

On that same note, he totally limits how good you can be I think. He would need an ideal situation around him to really thrive come deep playoffs.

warfelg
10-27-2017, 02:08 PM
explain why every team he has ever played for, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TEAM/YEAR, his team is better with him on the floor.

Rubio has become criminally underrated on this site. never thought I would see that.

Rubio is one of those statistical anomalies where everything stat wise points to a negative (poor shooter, high-ish TO at times); but the team is just better with him. It happens from time to time.

GREATNESS ONE
10-27-2017, 02:14 PM
Assists alone are not a fair barometer of a player's productivity. The guy is taking more than 14 shots per game and missing 10 of them every night. That's beyond abysmal. Combine that with his three turnovers a game (which is actually a totally reasonable number), and that's essentially 13 possessions a game (barring offensive rebounds) that Lonzo is essentially wasting for the Lakers. And that huge problem is why his advanced statistics are so jarringly awful. Aside from AST% and TRB%, there's really not an advanced metric out there that suggests Lonzo hasn't been terrible in this small four-game sample size.

That's why I'm saying we need to wait on any kind of judgment on Lonzo Ball at this point. He's not even worth talking about when he's shooting 32 percent from the floor and taking 14 shots a night.

100% agree on having to wait before making any real assessment. His advanced stats aren't the best but he impacts the game so
Much, just watch the games and you'll see for yourself. Let's give him 3-5 years and we will see what he becomes.

Ishkabibble
10-27-2017, 03:57 PM
Ball's shooting and scoring ability are highly, highly suspect right now. They'll improve but I doubt he'll ever be even average at either. But more than anything, his defense is now (and will always be) laughable. Waaay too slow to cover 1's and almost every 2 as well. He'll never be anything but a have-to-cover-up-for liability on that end of the floor. He's surprised me a bit with his rebounding and his passing ability should be elite.

Jamiecballer
10-27-2017, 06:19 PM
yeah, Rubio has definitely gotten badly underrated if we are having an honest debate over who is better between him and Teague. i've always believed Rubio was underrated long before this.

FlashBolt
10-27-2017, 08:42 PM
I don't know why Minny even got Teague.. he's a failure at the playoffs and falls short in big moments. Rubio might not be able to shoot but his ball movement is already 10000x better than Teague and his defense ranks in the high tier of guards. It's just amazing how these PG's are getting overrated. Take a look at Jrue Holiday. Soon, Bledsoe will be making $30 million and the guy can't lead a team to 30 wins if he wanted to.

BKLYNpigeon
10-27-2017, 08:57 PM
Sure why not? Lets judge him 3 years from now and not 3 games. Takes time for players to develop.

Of course this is the Internet and Recency Bias...

BKLYNpigeon
10-27-2017, 08:59 PM
I don't know why Minny even got Teague.. he's a failure at the playoffs and falls short in big moments. Rubio might not be able to shoot but his ball movement is already 10000x better than Teague and his defense ranks in the high tier of guards. It's just amazing how these PG's are getting overrated. Take a look at Jrue Holiday. Soon, Bledsoe will be making $30 million and the guy can't lead a team to 30 wins if he wanted to.

The Suns wouldn't let Bledsloe win 30 games. They would shut him down before that happens.

beasted86
10-28-2017, 03:07 AM
not Rubio's fault. Since he was a kid, his teams perform better with him on the floor. Every single year, every single team. Sure he has limitations, but I firmly believe Rubio has become one of the more underrated players in the game. This coming from someone who used to blow him up because of his negatives.

I haven't watched enough of Ball, but to say his floor is Rubio, means that worst case, Ball will be a top half starting PG in the league. If you believe that, fair enough.

Surprised you're still peddling this nonsense. I remember last year when you were like "watch what Rubio does now that we have Wiggins, Towns, and Lavine for him to work with"

Rubio is definitely not a top 15 starting PG at all.

Westbrook
Curry
Irving
Wall
Paul
Conley
Lillard
Schroder
Walker
Dragić
Lowry
Bledsoe
Jackson*
Lin*
Holiday*

*In good health

Are just the veterans I'm taking over him not making a rookie salary. There are also like 5-6 guys on rookie salaries I'm easily taking even if I'm in win now mode with a 1 year window only.

More-Than-Most
10-28-2017, 03:19 AM
Surprised you're still peddling this nonsense. I remember last year when you were like "watch what Rubio does now that we have Wiggins, Towns, and Lavine for him to work with"

Rubio is definitely not a top 15 starting PG at all.

Westbrook
Curry
Irving
Wall
Paul
Conley
Lillard
Schroder
Walker
Dragić
Lowry
Bledsoe
Jackson*
Lin*
Holiday*

*In good health

Are just the veterans I'm taking over him not making a rookie salary. There are also like 5-6 guys on rookie salaries I'm easily taking even if I'm in win now mode with a 1 year window only.

Taking him over and being better than are 2 very different things... as for that list I am taking him over all the guys i put in bold. I cant understand with thinking just because a guy can shoot he is better... defense/passing/running the offense----------------------->scoring as a PG.

LOb0
10-28-2017, 04:14 AM
we got that. And we are far worse because of it. Teague is a horrendous defender, and if you look at our bigs, if we can't stop guards from coming into the lane we are dead.

Alternatively, while it's only 5 games in, our guys can kiss easy layups and dunks goodbye that they routinely got with Rubio.

So far, and yes, it's a very short sample size, Teague is a gigantic downgrade. Never was a big fan. Will he get better, when his PnR chemistry with our bigs improves? I hope so

They also don't have to worry about guys sagging off 4 feet and being able to help every possession without having to guard Rubio.

RPM is such a stupid stat. You're saying the team was better when he was on the floor rather than his back up? wow how shocking a guard worse than Rubio would make the team worse.

thegerman
10-28-2017, 04:35 AM
if he improves his shoot like jkidd did yes he can, later in his career

More-Than-Most
10-28-2017, 05:54 AM
if he improves his shoot like jkidd did yes he can, later in his career

He will never ever be remotely good on defense... Kidd was known for his defense.

More-Than-Most
10-28-2017, 05:57 AM
Ball cant shoot/Isnt quick and doesnt play defense... I was hard on Ben simmons who is faster and better in every area except shooting... The reason why Simmons can get away with it is his size and speed and bully ball... I would have taken Lonzo top 5 no doubt but I would never have taken him 2... He will get better but he will never be really good...

Something like 14/5/9 at best with like 42-44 percent shooting. He is easy to guard because of his broken shooting mechanics.

Storch
10-28-2017, 06:28 AM
Too early to tell how good he will be at this point in time. And im a die hard lakers fan.

thegerman
10-28-2017, 06:36 AM
question is how much better he can make his teammates; jkidd is hard to reach anyways
but i clearly do not see him as a number one option

ewing
10-28-2017, 07:30 AM
They also don't have to worry about guys sagging off 4 feet and being able to help every possession without having to guard Rubio.

RPM is such a stupid stat. You're saying the team was better when he was on the floor rather than his back up? wow how shocking a guard worse than Rubio would make the team worse.

A backup guard sharing the floor with more bench players


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IndyRealist
10-28-2017, 08:01 AM
They also don't have to worry about guys sagging off 4 feet and being able to help every possession without having to guard Rubio.

RPM is such a stupid stat. You're saying the team was better when he was on the floor rather than his back up? wow how shocking a guard worse than Rubio would make the team worse.

That's not how RPM works.

beasted86
10-28-2017, 11:26 AM
Taking him over and being better than are 2 very different things... as for that list I am taking him over all the guys i put in bold. I cant understand with thinking just because a guy can shoot he is better... defense/passing/running the offense----------------------->scoring as a PG.

I guess the pivotal thing is I simply don't believe Rubio is a very good defender. I haven't checked recently, but I know last year around this same time when we were discussing this same topic I brought evidence opponents shot a higher percentage against him over the past couple years and it was still ignored.

I also find little to no value in any player who is ineffective without the ball... And then even if you give him the ball, has no ability to get the opposing team in foul trouble.

thegerman
10-28-2017, 12:02 PM
rubio is a good defender, but he definitly doesn`t get opposing players in foul trouble cause of his bad shot

aman_13
10-28-2017, 12:34 PM
Taking him over and being better than are 2 very different things... as for that list I am taking him over all the guys i put in bold. I cant understand with thinking just because a guy can shoot he is better... defense/passing/running the offense----------------------->scoring as a PG.

But it's not just scoring. Lowry for example has lead his teams to top 5 in offensive effeciency. His RPM ranks amongst the best. I think only Chris Paul ranked higher in RPM as a point guard.

I like him better than Bledsoe, Lin and Jackson.

europagnpilgrim
10-28-2017, 12:36 PM
playing for the Lakers give him a major advantage as far as the perception of what he will be if he is just decent, look at Kobe his first 3yrs, he had a high of 15ppg and a low of 7ppg in those 3 yrs, then year 4 he took off and now most fake experts might have him top 10 all time, all because of being in a Lakers uniform, if Kobe does this anywhere else especially like a Utah or Denver or Charlotte or any other team outside of NY/LA/Chicago then he doesn't get this type of all time ranking, all Ball has to do is be a Laker for 10 plus years and put up similar JKidd numbers and he will be labeled super elite regardless if you like it or not, he doesn't have the grit/defense of Kidd but his numbers will be similar since they both had iffy jump shots coming into the league

I think he will be good because he knows what he does and does it over and over and at a pretty nice level, he is a passer 1st passer 2nd and 3rd and will shoot a floater or jumper here and there, nothing elite but a good player he could and probably most likely will be, I mean all he has to do is pass the ball which he is willing and ready and able to do,

europagnpilgrim
10-28-2017, 12:39 PM
But it's not just scoring. Lowry for example has lead his teams to top 5 in offensive effeciency. His RPM ranks amongst the best. I think only Chris Paul ranked higher in RPM as a point guard.

I like him better than Bledsoe, Lin and Jackson.


That's why that RPM ranking doesn't mean much because come playoff time you would sware Lowry had led Raptors to a bottom 5 offensive efficiency rank, especially the way he pisses his pants in those playoff series of recent memory

eye test is a mother****er, use it wisely

europagnpilgrim
10-28-2017, 12:44 PM
Taking him over and being better than are 2 very different things... as for that list I am taking him over all the guys i put in bold. I cant understand with thinking just because a guy can shoot he is better... defense/passing/running the offense----------------------->scoring as a PG.

its not Rubio fault that most of the PG's in todays game are scorers/shooters with the ability to defend and pass and run a offense(most PG's are the offense or focal point), Rubio cant put any pressure on a defense because you know he is looking to pass and pass and pass and pass and it took him like 8yrs it seems just to develop the confidence to shoot a open shot, that is not a good sign for a PG in todays game where Curry/Lillard and whoever else can get buckets and are respected for making a play for self or creating for a teammate, the better player can always do more, Rubio would only get drafted maybe over Lin/Holiday but the other players are head and shoulders above him, from day 1 until day 10000000000000000000000

prodigy
10-28-2017, 12:54 PM
The great thing about Lonzo is you don't have to worry about his rebounding, defense, leadership, and maturity. Those are the toughest things to get from a player. His scoring is the only thing holding him back. He needs to be able to drop 20 to get defenders to respect him more.

After that last game I will def worry about his defense. Wow that was bad. Got lost a few times, and did not hustle really at all. I'm just gonna say it was a bad game for him and it won't happen again. But idk that was bad. Dudes a PG IDC if he can rebound lol. Also haven't seen much leadership. Although that stuff could come with time. Maturity I guess but he did just make pretty much a diss rap...

beasted86
10-28-2017, 01:12 PM
rubio is a good defender, but he definitly doesn`t get opposing players in foul trouble cause of his bad shot

Rubio is just average on defense. Meaning he can do a decent job as part of a team defensive scheme and is not going to be a total liability by messing up that scheme with poor defensive IQ. Nowadays people mistake that for good defense.

He's not a good defender because I don't trust him one on one defensively against any of the top tier guards.

And I'm not one of those fools using the absolute best like Steph to support my position. No, rather I mean I expect him to get lit up by just about any above average scorer. It's business as usual against Rubio. I don't expect him to slow down a Conley level guy at all. Whatever his normal numbers are he's doing that with ease against Rubio. If Lowry is a 20/5/5 guard, he's doing his normal numbers on good normal percentages against Rubio.

aman_13
10-28-2017, 01:21 PM
That's why that RPM ranking doesn't mean much because come playoff time you would sware Lowry had led Raptors to a bottom 5 offensive efficiency rank, especially the way he pisses his pants in those playoff series of recent memory

eye test is a mother****er, use it wisely

Their style of play doesn't translate in the playoffs which is why they are trying to play different this season.

The Raptors have been a high 40 to mid 50 winning team with him as the lead guard. It's not a perfect stat but it does have a positive correlation with winning.

europagnpilgrim
10-28-2017, 08:10 PM
Their style of play doesn't translate in the playoffs which is why they are trying to play different this season.

The Raptors have been a high 40 to mid 50 winning team with him as the lead guard. It's not a perfect stat but it does have a positive correlation with winning.

well if it works as top 5 for 82 games it shouldn't just go to hell over a 7 game series if it is truly legit even though I know playoff ball is more of a grind, that's why I said that RPM stuff was crap because they weren't from my eye test a top 5 offense, I don't care how efficient they seemed to have been, I am not knocking Lowry on leading a team and I always liked him as a player and its a head scratcher on how he plays so damn ****** in the playoffs after playing like he was worthy of a 3rd team all nba these past few seasons, he is one of the better 2way PG's in the league, nothing is a perfect stat, just like watching a game only once and thinking you know it all is flawed, you have to re watch it just in case you missed something but all this RPM/TS/PER non sense is just over the top by those trying to make a case why this inferior player is better than the more dominant player, its nitpicking at its finest

why would I need to see a TS% for players who are just flat out dominant or all nba/mvp material? my eyes see that from miles away

aman_13
10-28-2017, 10:19 PM
well if it works as top 5 for 82 games it shouldn't just go to hell over a 7 game series if it is truly legit even though I know playoff ball is more of a grind, that's why I said that RPM stuff was crap because they weren't from my eye test a top 5 offense, I don't care how efficient they seemed to have been, I am not knocking Lowry on leading a team and I always liked him as a player and its a head scratcher on how he plays so damn ****** in the playoffs after playing like he was worthy of a 3rd team all nba these past few seasons, he is one of the better 2way PG's in the league, nothing is a perfect stat, just like watching a game only once and thinking you know it all is flawed, you have to re watch it just in case you missed something but all this RPM/TS/PER non sense is just over the top by those trying to make a case why this inferior player is better than the more dominant player, its nitpicking at its finest

why would I need to see a TS% for players who are just flat out dominant or all nba/mvp material? my eyes see that from miles away

Hey I can't really disagree with anything you are saying. Those stats are just a nice way to minimize personal bias and to keep up with players who you don't get to see play on a day to day basis. But yeah, more times than not they will correlate well with eye test if the player is dominating.

Hawkeye15
10-30-2017, 09:11 AM
Surprised you're still peddling this nonsense. I remember last year when you were like "watch what Rubio does now that we have Wiggins, Towns, and Lavine for him to work with"

Rubio is definitely not a top 15 starting PG at all.

Westbrook
Curry
Irving
Wall
Paul
Conley
Lillard
Schroder
Walker
Dragić
Lowry
Bledsoe
Jackson*
Lin*
Holiday*

*In good health

Are just the veterans I'm taking over him not making a rookie salary. There are also like 5-6 guys on rookie salaries I'm easily taking even if I'm in win now mode with a 1 year window only.

cool

Hawkeye15
10-30-2017, 09:12 AM
They also don't have to worry about guys sagging off 4 feet and being able to help every possession without having to guard Rubio.

RPM is such a stupid stat. You're saying the team was better when he was on the floor rather than his back up? wow how shocking a guard worse than Rubio would make the team worse.

I didn't bring up RPM.

Again, why does every team he has ever played for, play better on both ends, when he plays? Why worse when he sits? Why does his teammates production rise when he plays, and fall when he sits?

Dude is underappreciated, isn't the first, won't be the last.

Hawkeye15
10-30-2017, 09:14 AM
Rubio is just average on defense. Meaning he can do a decent job as part of a team defensive scheme and is not going to be a total liability by messing up that scheme with poor defensive IQ. Nowadays people mistake that for good defense.

He's not a good defender because I don't trust him one on one defensively against any of the top tier guards.

And I'm not one of those fools using the absolute best like Steph to support my position. No, rather I mean I expect him to get lit up by just about any above average scorer. It's business as usual against Rubio. I don't expect him to slow down a Conley level guy at all. Whatever his normal numbers are he's doing that with ease against Rubio. If Lowry is a 20/5/5 guard, he's doing his normal numbers on good normal percentages against Rubio.

you have always made me laugh with the stats you choose to use, and the stats you choose to toss aside. Essentially, if they help your argument=good. If they don't help your argument=bad.

LaVar Ball
10-30-2017, 10:15 PM
Mah boy already an elite player!

More-Than-Most
10-31-2017, 01:18 AM
Mah boy already an elite player!

in the D-League maybe.

GREATNESS ONE
10-31-2017, 01:18 AM
Your hate for Lonzo is hilarious.

More-Than-Most
10-31-2017, 02:19 AM
Your hate for Lonzo is hilarious.

I dont just like people because they all of a sudden get drafted by my team... I said from day 1 i would hate to draft lonzo ball and I stated exactly why... His shot is broken and easy to read when real NBA talent defends him... All he looks to do is pass so much so that he becomes scared to shoot... He has no quick first step and is overall slow and has always been a poor defender... He works his *** off and tries hard which means he could very well get better or be very good because of his work ethic... If it wasnt for his dad he wouldnt be a top 4 pick.... It would have been Fultz/Tatum/JJ/Fox/DSJ in all honesty... He has massive massive holes in his game and has already been benched by luke walton and the team plays better when the bench crew actually comes in.

Sorry if this hurts your feelings... I loved you DLO and Ingram picks but Lonzo i just dont see it. Amazing heart and work ethic... everything else isnt very good except vision.

chitownkid
10-31-2017, 05:52 AM
his dad is the greatest hype man alive, also i think lonzo is the MVP so far this year..hey can we get the Lonzo HOF thread going yet?

kyubi256
10-31-2017, 09:00 AM
He's a great passer and rebounder. Kidd is a hall of famer and I can see Lonzo like Kidd as he develops

IndyRealist
10-31-2017, 09:34 AM
Hate to keep harping on it, but Kidd was fast and a good defender from the get go. Ball has a lot more holes in his game. Lonzo reminds me more of Kendall Marshall than Jason Kidd. I really want him to do well, despite his dad. He seems like a good kid.

prodigy
10-31-2017, 09:39 AM
Like the fact he's taking blame for the slow start. But is that really a shocker? hes shooting 31% from field lol. Can't really put too much blame elsewhere when ur ball handler can't shoot at all and giving up almost 4 TO's a game.

warfelg
10-31-2017, 09:49 AM
Like the fact he's taking blame for the slow start. But is that really a shocker? hes shooting 31% from field lol. Can't really put too much blame elsewhere when ur ball handler can't shoot at all and giving up almost 4 TO's a game.

From all reports he as a guy seems great.

There are play questions I had that he hasnít answered and the circus around him is annoying but he seems to be in the right frame of mind.

kyubi256
10-31-2017, 09:52 AM
Hate to keep harping on it, but Kidd was fast and a good defender from the get go. Ball has a lot more holes in his game. Lonzo reminds me more of Kendall Marshall than Jason Kidd. I really want him to do well, despite his dad. He seems like a good kid.

True but Kidd had holes in his game that he fixed, and his speed went away pretty quickly. I can see lonzo developing game like kidd or Nash, not be exactly like them. His jump shot is much worst, but he can develop it within time. His rebounding and passing is already solid

IndyRealist
10-31-2017, 09:54 AM
True but Kidd had holes in his game that he fixed, and his speed went away pretty quickly. I can see lonzo developing game like kidd or Nash, not be exactly like them. His jump shot is much worst, but he can develop it within time. His rebounding and passing is already solid

Nash was one of the best shooters the league has ever seen. He was dangerous because you couldn't sag or he'd drain a 3 in your face, but if you played aggressive he'd go right by you.

Lonzo has none of that. Perhaps we should stop comparing him to hall of famers.

IndyRealist
10-31-2017, 10:03 AM
Like I said, he's a lot closer to this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5eyropZzfU4
than a hall of famer. He could fill the gaps in his game, he might not.

GREATNESS ONE
10-31-2017, 10:14 AM
Like I said, he's a lot closer to this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5eyropZzfU4
than a hall of famer. He could fill the gaps in his game, he might not.

Isn't it too early to say where he will be in his career? I mean it's 6 games into a young season, and he just turned 20... I mean, if he averages 12-8-8 in his first season, isn't that a great first step? You can see his maturity level, the kid wants to be great and wants to win. I don't see Lonzo staying up late and partying anytime in the future.

This goes both ways, the kid has a lot of hoopla around him and mostly because of his dad but yet his demeanor and how he carries himself is so impressive. Let's give him a few seasons here


I absolutely love Lonzo (no secret), my favorite college is UCLA, love my Bruins and Lonzo stole my heart last year in college and now the hometown kid is on my favorite team. I saw him start slow in college, SL and now the NBA, he's going to get it going.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2017, 10:18 AM
Hate to keep harping on it, but Kidd was fast and a good defender from the get go. Ball has a lot more holes in his game. Lonzo reminds me more of Kendall Marshall than Jason Kidd. I really want him to do well, despite his dad. He seems like a good kid.

Yep, agreed. Kidd was stronger, and faster, and a much better defender right out of the gate. Marshall is not bad comparison, though I think Ball has more room for development due to IQ.

IndyRealist
10-31-2017, 11:24 AM
Isn't it too early to say where he will be in his career? I mean it's 6 games into a young season, and he just turned 20... I mean, if he averages 12-8-8 in his first season, isn't that a great first step? You can see his maturity level, the kid wants to be great and wants to win. I don't see Lonzo staying up late and partying anytime in the future.

This goes both ways, the kid has a lot of hoopla around him and mostly because of his dad but yet his demeanor and how he carries himself is so impressive. Let's give him a few seasons here


I absolutely love Lonzo (no secret), my favorite college is UCLA, love my Bruins and Lonzo stole my heart last year in college and now the hometown kid is on my favorite team. I saw him start slow in college, SL and now the NBA, he's going to get it going.

Which is why I said we shouldn't be comparing him to hall of famers, and RIGHT NOW he's more Kendall Marshall than Jason Kidd. Not once did I project his career.

KnicksorBust
10-31-2017, 11:36 AM
Which is why I said we shouldn't be comparing him to hall of famers, and RIGHT NOW he's more Kendall Marshall than Jason Kidd. Not once did I project his career.

Gross. He is lights year ahead of Marshall as a rebounder/passer and just overall talent. Marshall isn't even in the league. What a terrible comparison.

koreancabbage
10-31-2017, 12:14 PM
yes of course. he has the court vision and the athleticism but he needs to work on that jump shot

IndyRealist
10-31-2017, 12:22 PM
Gross. He is lights year ahead of Marshall as a rebounder/passer and just overall talent. Marshall isn't even in the league. What a terrible comparison.

Marshall lasted 4 years, he just didn't progress. Marshall's passing was as good or better than ball. But he wasn't super fast (like Ball), didn't play defense (like Ball), and couldn't shoot (like Ball). What does "overall talent" mean, exactly? Because it's not freak athleticism or a well rounded game. All "overall talent" seems to mean is that he was a #2 pick.

Oefarmy2005
10-31-2017, 12:30 PM
Rubio can't catch Oops and play above the rim. Lonzo can

Playing above the rim at the PG position is overrated as all F. Kyrie doesn't finish above the rim and neither does Curry, are they bad PGs?

Oefarmy2005
10-31-2017, 12:35 PM
well Rubio stinks and has never contributed to winning bball so thats not a good way to end up.

I take it you haven't discovered advanced stats yet? Rubio accounted for more wins that any other player on the Wolves roster and by a huge margin. His +/- on the court/off the court has been tops in the league, and that's no matter who he has been playing with. Like I've said, Ball and Rubio are the same player basically, which is a good thing because Rubio is basically good to elite at everything other than shooting the ball, and even that has come a long way.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2017, 01:28 PM
Playing above the rim at the PG position is overrated as all F. Kyrie doesn't finish above the rim and neither does Curry, are they bad PGs?

never seen Nash or CP3 dunk, have you?

Hawkeye15
10-31-2017, 01:29 PM
I take it you haven't discovered advanced stats yet? Rubio accounted for more wins that any other player on the Wolves roster and by a huge margin. His +/- on the court/off the court has been tops in the league, and that's no matter who he has been playing with. Like I've said, Ball and Rubio are the same player basically, which is a good thing because Rubio is basically good to elite at everything other than shooting the ball, and even that has come a long way.

While I will give Ball the benefit of the doubt when it comes to ceiling (due to age between he and Rubio), Ball has a LONG ways to go to be on Rubio's level. But, we shouldn't expect a rookie PG to be on par with a player who is in his peak and started for 6 years..

prodigy
10-31-2017, 01:43 PM
From all reports he as a guy seems great.

There are play questions I had that he hasnít answered and the circus around him is annoying but he seems to be in the right frame of mind.

He made a dis-rap lol. I thought it was very funny but it was childish. Which he is still a young kid. So i can't call him a leader or anything like that yet. But i do believe he can become that. If he can develop any type of a jump shot of course.

prodigy
10-31-2017, 01:46 PM
Isn't it too early to say where he will be in his career? I mean it's 6 games into a young season, and he just turned 20... I mean, if he averages 12-8-8 in his first season, isn't that a great first step? You can see his maturity level, the kid wants to be great and wants to win. I don't see Lonzo staying up late and partying anytime in the future.

This goes both ways, the kid has a lot of hoopla around him and mostly because of his dad but yet his demeanor and how he carries himself is so impressive. Let's give him a few seasons here


I absolutely love Lonzo (no secret), my favorite college is UCLA, love my Bruins and Lonzo stole my heart last year in college and now the hometown kid is on my favorite team. I saw him start slow in college, SL and now the NBA, he's going to get it going.

12-8-8 shooting 31% from the field? no i don't think thats a great 1st step. Because i don't think they will win many games like that. He is 20 so i do believe he can develop his shot. but man, its really crappy right now lol.

FlashBolt
10-31-2017, 01:47 PM
While I will give Ball the benefit of the doubt when it comes to ceiling (due to age between he and Rubio), Ball has a LONG ways to go to be on Rubio's level. But, we shouldn't expect a rookie PG to be on par with a player who is in his peak and started for 6 years..

Unless your name is Ben Simmons.. who is looking like a total pro already.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2017, 01:49 PM
Unless your name is Ben Simmons.. who is looking like a total pro already.

he is. Long way to go though, it's been just a few games.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-31-2017, 01:54 PM
I'd probably bet All star/near All star type player. All NBA or superstar type? I don't think so. I think scoring will hold him back.

I'd probably say more Rubio than Kidd if you are talking about who I think he is closer to over his career. I'd put best case scenario on a Rondo type player.

Oefarmy2005
10-31-2017, 03:07 PM
By the way, Rubio was better than Lonzo in every stat category besides rebounding in his first year. Granted, 7 games is a terrible sample size - why I don't understand the hate on Rubio and the hype of Lonzo.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1_select=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1=balllo01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Ricky+Rubio&player_id2_select=Ricky+Rubio&y2=2012&player_id2=rubiori01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Jason+Kidd&player_id3_select=Jason+Kidd&y3=1995&player_id3=kiddja01&idx=players

GREATNESS ONE
10-31-2017, 06:43 PM
Granted Rubio played with grown men from 16+ and yes that makes a huge difference.

Vinylman
10-31-2017, 07:56 PM
By the way, Rubio was better than Lonzo in every stat category besides rebounding in his first year. Granted, 7 games is a terrible sample size - why I don't understand the hate on Rubio and the hype of Lonzo.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1_select=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1=balllo01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Ricky+Rubio&player_id2_select=Ricky+Rubio&y2=2012&player_id2=rubiori01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Jason+Kidd&player_id3_select=Jason+Kidd&y3=1995&player_id3=kiddja01&idx=players

excellent anal cyst

More-Than-Most
10-31-2017, 10:07 PM
Granted Rubio played with grown men from 16+ and yes that makes a huge difference.

lmfao so this/age/etc/etc/etc... You were in here touted for months since draft day about how he would come in and dominate... Now its he is only age... and this guy is this age and this guy plays with grown men and assists are everything and shooting is now meaningless... Come on man. :laugh:

GREATNESS ONE
10-31-2017, 10:26 PM
Wait what? I don't think I even said half of what you just posted.

Yes, I think Lonzo will be great, he has to develop into his man body but he will improve as then season carries on. Yes I think Lonzo will improve his shooting by the end of the season. I did say I thought Lonzo will be ROY but that easily going to Simmons if he stays healthy and keeps smashing.

Do I think Lonzo will be much better at 21/22 than 19/20 yes...

Do I think it helped Rubio to play in the Spanish league with grown men, yes... I never once said Rubio sucks either.

I can't wait for him to get it going, I'm a huge Bruin fan and fell in love with Zo's game. SO not sure why you say I like him because he's a Laker.


Your little vendetta against me is hilarious. I'm a grown *** man and won't back down from my opinion. You can tell me I was wrong was Zo in a few years. I'm not one for I told you so but lets see happens before we start pounding our chests.

More-Than-Most
11-01-2017, 12:14 AM
lol nope you just talk a ton of crap anytime someone become a laker and the second they leave they become garbage... I guess Okafor is still going to be a great player right? he is only 21 so there is plenty of time for him to get into his man body right?

Lol Vendetta... This dude needs someone to have a vendetta against him on a sports forum.. YOU ARE IN THE PUBLIC AREA... WTF am i suppose to do

Oefarmy2005
11-01-2017, 01:00 AM
excellent anal cyst

You'd clearly know a thing or two about it. Must be all that man-on-man stuff you love so much...

warfelg
11-01-2017, 08:03 AM
925566970984099840

That is quite some stat phishing to put Lonzo in the same realm as some of those guys. I get this is likely a network that fully covers the Lakers, but IMO it doesn't quite have the impression it should have as it shows what a gap there is between Lonzo and Simmons right now.

IndyRealist
11-01-2017, 08:38 AM
925566970984099840

That is quite some stat phishing to put Lonzo in the same realm as some of those guys. I get this is likely a network that fully covers the Lakers, but IMO it doesn't quite have the impression it should have as it shows what a gap there is between Lonzo and Simmons right now.

This reminds me EXACTLY of Tyreke Evans' rookie year. "Only X Y and Z hall of famers ever averaged 20-5-5 their rookie year." Those numbers are arbitrary, and thinking that means Tyreke (or Lonzo or Ben) is in the company of hall of famers is laughable.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2017, 08:43 AM
why do people even debate this? There are some Laker homers that will fight to the end over his future, some who hate him because of all the crap surrounding him, and the rest of us just want the dude to prove he belongs in the same sentence with guys like Jason Kidd before we care about him.

Dude is a rookie, likely won't contribute to winning this year, like nearly every rookie ever, and shows flashes of great playmaking ability, which will only get him so far if he doesn't develop the other parts of his game. Ie, he is a normal 19 year old rookie...

god let the kid play and show what he is made of before arguing for the 193th time on this board.

chitownkid
11-01-2017, 08:56 AM
DELETE THIS THREAD.

Lonzo will NOT even be ROY
where is the thread were you guys discuss if Lavar really could beat MJ 1 on 1

ps
Hows the Ball familys' d*** taste?

chitownkid
11-01-2017, 08:57 AM
i'm reports this thread and everyone who contributed

TheDish87
11-01-2017, 09:06 AM
who are you?

IndyRealist
11-01-2017, 09:19 AM
who are you?

Someone's troll account. Not worth paying attention to.

warfelg
11-01-2017, 09:44 AM
This reminds me EXACTLY of Tyreke Evans' rookie year. "Only X Y and Z hall of famers ever averaged 20-5-5 their rookie year." Those numbers are arbitrary, and thinking that means Tyreke (or Lonzo or Ben) is in the company of hall of famers is laughable.

Pretty much. Iím all for comparing them to what others have done as rookies but man.

It just cracks me up what some team affiliated outlets will do to boost their rookies. Great thing about LP is I can see all of that. Last year some team did their rookie playing 6 min a game on per36 as to why he should be in the ROY convo.

prodigy
11-01-2017, 10:45 AM
Wait what? I don't think I even said half of what you just posted.

Yes, I think Lonzo will be great, he has to develop into his man body.

I don't think his "man body" has really anything to do with his struggles. He's bigger then most PG's already. For me its his scoring and focus that seems not all there. Good player with tons of upside. But lots of work to do.

warfelg
11-01-2017, 10:52 AM
I don't think his "man body" has really anything to do with his struggles. He's bigger then most PG's already. For me its his scoring and focus that seems not all there. Good player with tons of upside. But lots of work to do.

Looks wise when I watch the Lakers he looks a lot like Michael Carter-Williams his rookie year.

KnicksorBust
11-01-2017, 11:33 AM
By the way, Rubio was better than Lonzo in every stat category besides rebounding in his first year. Granted, 7 games is a terrible sample size - why I don't understand the hate on Rubio and the hype of Lonzo.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1_select=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1=balllo01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Ricky+Rubio&player_id2_select=Ricky+Rubio&y2=2012&player_id2=rubiori01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Jason+Kidd&player_id3_select=Jason+Kidd&y3=1995&player_id3=kiddja01&idx=players

Rubio had a ton of hype. HE was supposed to be Jason Kidd 2.0. He fell short. When you are perceived to have an upside among the GOATS of your position and you fall short, even if you are still decent you get hated on. Ball right now still has that upside. It's fun to root for that player to become a superstar. Rubio's upside is gone and we know the player he is now.


Looks wise when I watch the Lakers he looks a lot like Michael Carter-Williams his rookie year.

Boo. Stop comparing him to scrubs that can't touch his passing ability. Rubio is the only acceptable non-star comparison imo. I would rather someone call him a non-flashy Jason Williams because at least then you are giving him credit for his strongest asset. Court vision.

chitownkid
11-01-2017, 11:48 AM
Someone's troll account. Not worth paying attention to.

sort of like the lavar lonzo and this thread?

TheDish87
11-01-2017, 11:52 AM
Rubio had a ton of hype. HE was supposed to be Jason Kidd 2.0. He fell short. When you are perceived to have an upside among the GOATS of your position and you fall short, even if you are still decent you get hated on. Ball right now still has that upside. It's fun to root for that player to become a superstar. Rubio's upside is gone and we know the player he is now.



Boo. Stop comparing him to scrubs that can't touch his passing ability. Rubio is the only acceptable non-star comparison imo. I would rather someone call him a non-flashy Jason Williams because at least then you are giving him credit for his strongest asset. Court vision.

i dont know, i have always felt something like MCW is his floor.yea, Ball will/prob is a batter passer but MCW had some wild games his rookie year including a damn near triple dub in his first game while beating Miamis big 3. Seeing how MCW flopped pretty hard since makes it easy to scoff at the comparison now but it feels fair at the moment.

warfelg
11-01-2017, 12:05 PM
MCW was actually a good passer his rookie year, but he had a ton of TOs to go with it. Scored well if he got to the paint but not good if he didnít. Wasnít as good defensively as his length suggested but got into passing lanes.

prodigy
11-01-2017, 02:33 PM
Looks wise when I watch the Lakers he looks a lot like Michael Carter-Williams his rookie year.

Not a bad comparison rookie season wise. Williams did shoot 9% higher from the field though.

warfelg
11-01-2017, 03:01 PM
Not a bad comparison rookie season wise. Williams did shoot 9% higher from the field though.

I think Lonzo will bring it up by the end of the year. The important thing isn't year 1, it's what you do to improve off of year 1.

prodigy
11-02-2017, 09:18 AM
I think Lonzo will bring it up by the end of the year. The important thing isn't year 1, it's what you do to improve off of year 1.

O i know. you were talking about Williams rookie year lol.

warfelg
11-02-2017, 09:34 AM
O i know. you were talking about Williams rookie year lol.

I know, I was kinda just referencing that I think Lonzo will pull that shooting percent closer and will be better year 2.

jaydubb
11-02-2017, 10:39 AM
I think Lonzo can be elite, I mean why not, he's got all the tools.. Size, length, play making, athleticism, iq, but I do think he has to rework his shot for his game to completely come together though.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Sly Guy
11-02-2017, 11:03 AM
that shot form is so ugly though

IndyRealist
11-02-2017, 11:49 AM
Draftexpress has a really detailed breakdown of Ball vs. Kidd.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/how-does-lonzo-ball-compare-with-jason-kidd-5986/

Rain City
11-02-2017, 12:13 PM
I've watched all his games so far and a lot of them in college. i was worried he would bust and he still might, it never turns out good when a player gets talked about more for topics outside his game.

so far, i see him translating well to the NBA. I'm not sure he will ever have the stats to be considered elite but despite having a donkey of a father he has elite intangibles and winner DNA. if LAL resist the urge to trade him for proven talent (which i think they will), they will build a contender as FAs will want to play with him and the young players will only get better bc of Ball's style of play.

JasonJohnHorn
11-02-2017, 02:15 PM
It looks like the question may soon be if he can be a starter in this league. And by next year, it may be if he has a spot in the league.

His shooting is awful. It is that bad right now. He's obviously a strong playmaker and rebounder. Looks more like a Ricky Rubio Jr. than Magic right now. But it's early. Hopefully he gets that shot going and makes this comment look silly.

GREATNESS ONE
11-02-2017, 03:02 PM
I've watched all his games so far and a lot of them in college. i was worried he would bust and he still might, it never turns out good when a player gets talked about more for topics outside his game.

so far, i see him translating well to the NBA. I'm not sure he will ever have the stats to be considered elite but despite having a donkey of a father he has elite intangibles and winner DNA. if LAL resist the urge to trade him for proven talent (which i think they will), they will build a contender as FAs will want to play with him and the young players will only get better bc of Ball's style of play.

:clap: one of the rare people who actually have watched him play. Thanks for the post, good stuff.


I find it hilarious reading these guys hate on Ball because 1- his asshat dad, 2- he's a Laker and 3- his shot.

But yet they barely watch him play. Look at the guys post above^ lol He will translate into the game just fine, his unselfish style has already changed how the Lakers play, everyone is looking to be unselfish and looking for the open man. I look forward to watching him blossom into a elite stud pg.

More-Than-Most
11-02-2017, 03:23 PM
when someone says anything good about a laker- THEY WATCH THE GAMES:clap::clap::clap:

when someone says anything bad- They dont watch the games and just rely on stats.

GREATNESS ONE
11-02-2017, 04:46 PM
Do you have a poster of me on your wall? Lol keep following me little buddy.

More-Than-Most
11-02-2017, 07:11 PM
Do you have a poster of me on your wall? Lol keep following me little buddy.

lol i keep looking but I am fairly certain this is the nba area and not the laker area. How self important do you think your are? If you guys traded Ingram tomorrow you would say you guys won the trade even if it was for a 2nd rounder because he would all of a sudden be the worst player ever that had his chance etc etc etc. Like you did with Oka/DLO etc. Its comical is all.

More-Than-Most
11-03-2017, 05:29 AM
The zero points scored Thursday is the lowest point total he has had since his NBA debut in which he scored three points against the Clippers. He also became the first 2017 first-round pick to play at least 15 minutes in a game and go scoreless.

:laugh:

chitownkid
11-03-2017, 05:37 AM
suggestion.... can we change the name of this thread to "can Lonzo be a decent player?'

kids going to be a bum, hes your average to below average player. his Dad knows it. why else you think he is the way he is and talks about him how he does, greatest hype man alive

kuzma is the future

chitownkid
11-03-2017, 06:14 AM
Will they lower the price of the shoes when lonzo does't produce how many people have bought 500 dollar shoes of a guy with his production?

will lonzo be a starter for more than 2 years?

can we go over all the statements his dad made? Him and lonzo could bear MJ and his kid, oh boy

the real question is can and when will Ben Simmons be elite. and Can Lonzo make an allstar game some day

prodigy
11-03-2017, 09:43 AM
when someone says anything good about a laker- THEY WATCH THE GAMES:clap::clap::clap:

when someone says anything bad- They dont watch the games and just rely on stats.

this

pretty soon Laker fans will be saying "any negative news is fake news".

The Kid has skill but he needs to put in the work and time. Right now he's not a very good player at all. Thats just a fact. I do believe he will improve. But i think people who expect him to be the savior or the next great thing will be horribly mistaken. Thats just my opinion from watching him play. I don't see anything special.

I have nothing against Lonzo and i could really careless if he fails or succeeds. Just my honest opinion.

warfelg
11-03-2017, 09:46 AM
this

pretty soon Laker fans will be saying "any negative news is fake news".

The Kid has skill but he needs to put in the work and time. Right now he's not a very good player at all. Thats just a fact. I do believe he will improve. But i think people who expect him to be the savior or the next great thing will be horribly mistaken. Thats just my opinion from watching him play. I don't see anything special.

I have nothing against Lonzo and i could really careless if he fails or succeeds. Just my honest opinion.

I honestly think that a lot of Lakers fans thought they would get much more much earlier.

As of right now heís not someone I see star players going to play with.

Ishkabibble
11-03-2017, 10:01 AM
LOL. He was flat-out awful last night. So much so that the Lakers were a far better unit when he was on the bench. Not hating cuz the kid will be an exceptional passer for the duration of his career and he seems to get his share of rebounds. Plus (in large part because there's nowhere to go but up), his shooting will improve.
But he will never be a good scorer, even a decent scorer. And defensively, forget it. Walton is going to have to cover up for him at all times, and likely forever. With his size and slow feet, I'm certain there's not a PG in the league he could cover and pretty much every shooting guard as well. And that's a big ol' headache for a coach.

IndyRealist
11-03-2017, 10:54 AM
It was obvious in college that he would have to completely rebuild his shot, and that takes all summer. It's funny, I've been saying this for months but I am constantly accused of not watching games. If all you did was look at his college stats you'd think he was Nash reborn. But if you actually watched him play it was obvious.

He spends a summer with a shooting coach, he'll be 10x better in year 2. The danger is that his confidence takes a beating this year because everything isn't easy anymore, he might not make it.

Scoots
11-03-2017, 12:17 PM
Have not made any decision about Ball other than I can't stand his Dad. But he's definitely not looking like a ROY.

prodigy
11-03-2017, 01:15 PM
I honestly think that a lot of Lakers fans thought they would get much more much earlier.

As of right now heís not someone I see star players going to play with.

I agree. Now my opinion can def change. But i gotta see the improvements first. He's been horrible.

pebloemer
11-03-2017, 01:28 PM
Can he be elite? Sure. He has a lot of excellent basketball talents that most players have a hard time developing. He is not elite now though. So how he develops from here on out will determine the type of player he is. Seems like he has the confidence and character the drive himself to improve, so I think he can get there. Somewhere on the Rubio/JKidd spectrum seems reasonable. Hopefully for Lakers fans he ends up being closer to Jason Kidd.

And yes, I also wish people would shut off their TV's and radios when his Dad gets air time. Don't encourage that self-serving propaganda.

tredigs
11-03-2017, 01:55 PM
It was obvious in college that he would have to completely rebuild his shot, and that takes all summer. It's funny, I've been saying this for months but I am constantly accused of not watching games. If all you did was look at his college stats you'd think he was Nash reborn. But if you actually watched him play it was obvious.

He spends a summer with a shooting coach, he'll be 10x better in year 2. The danger is that his confidence takes a beating this year because everything isn't easy anymore, he might not make it.

Not many players have ever completely rebuilt their shot, and I highly doubt he will given the success he has had with it throughout his entire life. He's getting open looks, they're just not falling. Eventually they will as he gains confidence in the league (it's essentially Kevin Martin's shot... who never had a problem with it). His vision and playmaking instincts are incredible, and that can't be taught. He is super young and is on a very clunky team, but this kid will be a success.

More-Than-Most
11-03-2017, 04:45 PM
Not many players have ever completely rebuilt their shot, and I highly doubt he will given the success he has had with it throughout his entire life. He's getting open looks, they're just not falling. Eventually they will as he gains confidence in the league (it's essentially Kevin Martin's shot... who never had a problem with it). His vision and playmaking instincts are incredible, and that can't be taught. He is super young and is on a very clunky team, but this kid will be a success.

his shot could work but i dont think he will ever be a top pg with it... its slow and easy to read. he can pass no doubt but he is slow as **** and his defense is horribly bad... last night he spent 90 percent of the game standing around lol.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 01:07 AM
:laugh:

sorry i still dont see it... 3-15... against the worst defensive team possibly in basketball. KEEP SHOOTING LONZO.... Greatness looking in trying to defend this dude against the HATERS... I guess he is -following me- :rolleyes:

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 01:13 AM
If he cant shoot/score/Defend I guess its time to fall back on Plus/Minus right? Come on


At least he is trying to score so I give him credit for that which is far better than being passive like last game... But he literally just lowered his shooting pct under 30pct xD

jaydubb
11-04-2017, 01:23 AM
If he cant shoot/score/Defend I guess its time to fall back on Plus/Minus right? Come on


At least he is trying to score so I give him credit for that which is far better than being passive like last game... But he literally just lowered his shooting pct under 30pct xDYou take jabs when he plays bad and you go Mia when he plays good.. We get it

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 01:25 AM
You take jabs when he plays bad and you go Mia when he plays good.. We get it

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

when does he play good? He is trash man... Has been.... Can he grow? Sure but he has so many holes its ridiculous... his ceiling is rubio... he became the 2nd overall pick because of his dad... Out of 10 games he has had what 1 good game?

Dont get butthurt its not my fault your fanbase and his daddy and espn called him the 2nd coming of magic which is disrespectful to say the least. He has been beyond garbage so far... its not my fault.

jaydubb
11-04-2017, 01:31 AM
when does he play good? He is trash man... Has been.... Can he grow? Sure but he has so many holes its ridiculous... his ceiling is rubio... he became the 2nd overall pick because of his dad... Out of 10 games he has had what 1 good game?

Dont get butthurt its not my fault your fanbase and his daddy and espn called him the 2nd coming of magic which is disrespectful to say the least. He has been beyond garbage so far... its not my fault.

I'm definitely not butt hurt.. It's been only 9 games.. :shrug: To judge him based off that small of a sample size is ridiculous but carry on

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Iron24th
11-04-2017, 02:09 AM
when does he play good? He is trash man... Has been.... Can he grow? Sure but he has so many holes its ridiculous... his ceiling is rubio... he became the 2nd overall pick because of his dad... Out of 10 games he has had what 1 good game?

Dont get butthurt its not my fault your fanbase and his daddy and espn called him the 2nd coming of magic which is disrespectful to say the least. He has been beyond garbage so far... its not my fault.

LOL I think his ceiling is more jason kidd like, rubio didnít rebound like ball does.

Heís a playmaker, as a rookie thatís all weíre asking for.

You probably prefer your boy russell whoís a black hole who shot 1-8 3pt tonight

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 02:24 AM
LOL I think his ceiling is more jason kidd like, rubio didnít rebound like ball does.

Heís a playmaker, as a rookie thatís all weíre asking for.

You probably prefer your boy russell whoís a black hole who shot 1-8 3pt tonight

I do prefer russ... He had a much much much much better rookie season than ingram and ball will have... Russ played poorly tonight... Lonzo has played poorly every game except 1... He can pass but do nothing else.... A playmaker is all your asking for? Lol ok. Didnt take long on reddit... Now the only thing that matters is plus/minus because its the new stat of the day to keep lonzo relevant. I love Kuz... I love Ingram... I have talked to the moon about randle and clarkson but now I am a hater because I love Russ and hate ball... Most laker fans loved russ until he was traded. Same old same old.

IndyRealist
11-04-2017, 09:43 AM
LOL I think his ceiling is more jason kidd like, rubio didnít rebound like ball does.

Heís a playmaker, as a rookie thatís all weíre asking for.

You probably prefer your boy russell whoís a black hole who shot 1-8 3pt tonight

Anyone else have trouble reading that without Lonzo's last name capitalized?

warfelg
11-04-2017, 10:04 AM
Anyone else have trouble reading that without Lonzo's last name capitalized?

From time to time I have to do a double take.

europagnpilgrim
11-04-2017, 10:05 AM
Can he be elite? Sure. He has a lot of excellent basketball talents that most players have a hard time developing. He is not elite now though. So how he develops from here on out will determine the type of player he is. Seems like he has the confidence and character the drive himself to improve, so I think he can get there. Somewhere on the Rubio/JKidd spectrum seems reasonable. Hopefully for Lakers fans he ends up being closer to Jason Kidd.

And yes, I also wish people would shut off their TV's and radios when his Dad gets air time. Don't encourage that self-serving propaganda.

But being elite comes with showing many flashes as a rookie, guys like G Hill/Shaq/Iverson/Bron and so on didn't just completely take the league over rookie year but you knew damn good well they were elite rookies and established themselves year 1, if by year 3 you are not established then its more hype than substance in my book, has he shown he can be elite? I think he has 1 game under his belt to suggest that out of 10(its still early so he has time to show it), not a good sign, he should at least have 5 decent to good games under his belt but the thing he will have working for him is he can pass and pass and pass and shooters/scorers love a guy like that, he basically is already elite at passing but his overall game isn't and that's where he will probably always be and that Lakers market will always keep him in the spotlight regardless if its good or bad games played by Ball

when you guys are screaming about him improving It cant get any worse than his 30%FG so I think he would improve just by default, around 40% next and year and moving forward, doesn't mean he will be a better player because what you are looking at is pretty much what he will be forever, it usually happens like that coming out of college

LA_1
11-04-2017, 10:40 AM
I ****ing miss DLO. Don't lump me in with all the dumb homer cringey laker fans that suck on Lonzo.


Lonzo is ****ing trash, he'll be a good floor general but that's it. Dudes offense sucks and his defense is worse.

prodigy
11-04-2017, 10:54 AM
Can he be elite? Sure. He has a lot of excellent basketball talents that most players have a hard time developing. He is not elite now though. So how he develops from here on out will determine the type of player he is. Seems like he has the confidence and character the drive himself to improve, so I think he can get there. Somewhere on the Rubio/JKidd spectrum seems reasonable. Hopefully for Lakers fans he ends up being closer to Jason Kidd.

And yes, I also wish people would shut off their TV's and radios when his Dad gets air time. Don't encourage that self-serving propaganda.

other than vision what excellent talent does he have? Don't say rebounding because hes a 6'6 guard. Not like he's really being boxed out.

prodigy
11-04-2017, 11:01 AM
People bash lavar Ball but the dude got his son draft #2 overall. When Talent and eye test prob put him quite a few spots lower. I think hes a moron, but a smart moron lol.

Hawkeye15
11-04-2017, 11:26 AM
Not many players have ever completely rebuilt their shot, and I highly doubt he will given the success he has had with it throughout his entire life. He's getting open looks, they're just not falling. Eventually they will as he gains confidence in the league (it's essentially Kevin Martin's shot... who never had a problem with it). His vision and playmaking instincts are incredible, and that can't be taught. He is super young and is on a very clunky team, but this kid will be a success.

K-Mart got away with it because he had such incredible head/shoulder movement in his fake, and was able to get the ball on the deck and draw contact immediately if you bit (he also thrived in the rip-thru era, and went south when it stopped). That is very hard to build if you don't have the feel to do it. K-Mart also was an amazing shooter, which is rare when a form is broken like that. Ball is what you usually get with a broken *** shot, Martin is not. Just because one guy ever hit at a high rate shooting from the wrong side of his body doesn't mean anyone else will.

Ball has so far to go to be even respected outside 15 feet, it will hurt him elsewhere. He doesn't have the speed to guard at a high level, or the IQ at this point either.

He is a player with amazing sight, and has a feel for passing, and is very good at it. Not on the Rubio level, but as good as a Nash was for instance.

Ball appears to be an excellent passer/rebounder, but in order to really hit his ceiling, he will need to break that shot down and start over. Mike Miller did it, others guys have too. Defensively, he can become a good team defender with coaching. But his upside, is limited by his massive weaknesses. How far he goes depends on how he addresses those weaknesses.

ldawg
11-04-2017, 12:27 PM
Fox is the better overall player.

warfelg
11-04-2017, 12:31 PM
K-Mart got away with it because he had such incredible head/shoulder movement in his fake, and was able to get the ball on the deck and draw contact immediately if you bit (he also thrived in the rip-thru era, and went south when it stopped). That is very hard to build if you don't have the feel to do it. K-Mart also was an amazing shooter, which is rare when a form is broken like that. Ball is what you usually get with a broken *** shot, Martin is not. Just because one guy ever hit at a high rate shooting from the wrong side of his body doesn't mean anyone else will.

Ball has so far to go to be even respected outside 15 feet, it will hurt him elsewhere. He doesn't have the speed to guard at a high level, or the IQ at this point either.

He is a player with amazing sight, and has a feel for passing, and is very good at it. Not on the Rubio level, but as good as a Nash was for instance.

Ball appears to be an excellent passer/rebounder, but in order to really hit his ceiling, he will need to break that shot down and start over. Mike Miller did it, others guys have too. Defensively, he can become a good team defender with coaching. But his upside, is limited by his massive weaknesses. How far he goes depends on how he addresses those weaknesses.

I was listening to a podcast with a shooting coach that really went into depth with Ball and what's to come.

He started with the not being aggressive part. He talked about how this has been going on since HS with Lonzo. This isn't something new. He's long done this, but the net point plays into this. His game doesn't lend into him being aggressive.

The shot was something he went into depth with. His shot is very unorthodox. It goes from the right, to the left, back to the right. It's a mostly arm shot that doesn't involve movement from other places. So because of that shot he can't go to his right and shoot, he can't pumpfake all that great, and it takes too long to develop for a midrange. He went on to talk about how even in highschool he created space by stepping back and creating space, something that's even tougher in the NBA. So where his height should help him shoot over guys in the NBA, he struggles because of the low collection and low release, and his way of creating space doesn't work as well when the teams defending you can use someone just as long or really quick.

He talked about how that really is going to requite a massive change to his shot to allow him to drive to the right, and not only that he's going to have to find a different way to create space.

The guy on the podcast had a bunch of other things with Ball, along with a much of other rookies, and what it's going to take to blossom. Ball, Tatum, Smith Jr, and Jackson were the 4 he was most critical of.

Federal Reserve
11-04-2017, 01:30 PM
How many point guards with no shooting ability have led, as the first or second guy, their teams to the promise land? Zero.

GREATNESS ONE
11-04-2017, 01:51 PM
How many point guards with no shooting ability have led, as the first or second guy, their teams to the promise land? Zero.

In their rookie season as a 19/20 year old kid? You're right 0.

prodigy
11-04-2017, 02:45 PM
In their rookie season as a 19/20 year old kid? You're right 0.

Ill throw this question to you. What excellent talent does Ball have outside of passing vision? once again i don't wanna hear rebounding. But am open to anything else.

FlashBolt
11-04-2017, 03:43 PM
Ill throw this question to you. What excellent talent does Ball have outside of passing vision? once again i don't wanna hear rebounding. But am open to anything else.

- Incredible maturity for his age,
- Passing ability and the pace he can play at fits the league of today.
- Rebounding for his position is superb.
- Plays good defense.

He's a rookie, dude. You're expecting too much because you bought into Lavar's hype. He's still too skinny but if he bulks up, he should be able to start posting up on other guards and attack the basket more. Part of his issue is he's too hesistant with how he plays and that's why his shot selection is completely out-of-sync. I still think he's the best player in this draft. Tatum looks great but Lonzo is capable of really leading a team. Ben Simmons, though. I'm not sure there's much competition on that end. He's easily the best "rookie."

warfelg
11-04-2017, 04:01 PM
- Incredible maturity for his age,
- Passing ability and the pace he can play at fits the league of today.
- Rebounding for his position is superb.
- Plays good defense.

He's a rookie, dude. You're expecting too much because you bought into Lavar's hype. He's still too skinny but if he bulks up, he should be able to start posting up on other guards and attack the basket more. Part of his issue is he's too hesistant with how he plays and that's why his shot selection is completely out-of-sync. I still think he's the best player in this draft. Tatum looks great but Lonzo is capable of really leading a team. Ben Simmons, though. I'm not sure there's much competition on that end. He's easily the best "rookie."

No he doesn't

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 04:05 PM
my man said he plays good defense :laugh:


Also yes he can pass at the pace of todays NBA but his slow *** first step and overall limited speed hurts that pace outside of just passing... meaning his is extremely limited on the fast break unless he has optimal help around him because he cant blow by guys or just stop and drain shots or use his body to draw fouls.

He is Mature... he can pass.... but there is nothing else. He will have good games but he will end up pretty bad as a rookie... his shooting pct wont stay 29pct but i dont see it being higher than 35 and that is insane.

Iron24th
11-04-2017, 04:05 PM
I do prefer russ... He had a much much much much better rookie season than ingram and ball will have... Russ played poorly tonight... Lonzo has played poorly every game except 1... He can pass but do nothing else.... A playmaker is all your asking for? Lol ok. Didnt take long on reddit... Now the only thing that matters is plus/minus because its the new stat of the day to keep lonzo relevant. I love Kuz... I love Ingram... I have talked to the moon about randle and clarkson but now I am a hater because I love Russ and hate ball... Most laker fans loved russ until he was traded. Same old same old.

GO Get find a post where I said I like this punk russell, I wrote like 500+ posts where I said how much I hated this clown, his attitude, his poor work ethic and his cockiness while done nothing in the league except chucking 3ís, and turn the ball over 8 times when he tried to make assists. Great so far for a PG...

Ball rebound and pass and push the pace at least, russell is slow as hell canít make a single fastbreak.

So yeah I prefer ball since day 1 and last night reminded me how great it was to get rid of russell.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 04:05 PM
No he doesn't

bruh... plus/minus says otherwise. lol

Eg714
11-04-2017, 05:11 PM
Lonzo will be elite. It will take time but he will get there. He just needs more confidence and more time to adjust to the league.

Ingram looks way better than last year when everyone was doubting him. It takes time to be good in the NBA. In 2 years he'll be legit starting material and still 3 or 4 years from his prime.

FlashBolt
11-04-2017, 05:35 PM
No he doesn't

Yes he does. The issue with Lonzo regarding his defense is he's not athletic enough to guard some of the other guys but his help defense and ability to fight the pick-and-roll is there. He has the hustle.

my man said he plays good defense :laugh:


Also yes he can pass at the pace of todays NBA but his slow *** first step and overall limited speed hurts that pace outside of just passing... meaning his is extremely limited on the fast break unless he has optimal help around him because he cant blow by guys or just stop and drain shots or use his body to draw fouls.

He is Mature... he can pass.... but there is nothing else. He will have good games but he will end up pretty bad as a rookie... his shooting pct wont stay 29pct but i dont see it being higher than 35 and that is insane.

He does have good defense. You guys are just expecting Patrick beverley type defense.

warfelg
11-04-2017, 06:00 PM
Iíll try to find it but there is video of about 8 possessions from different games where Lonzo didnít move out of a 3x3 space for the entire 0:20.

5ass
11-04-2017, 06:24 PM
In their rookie season as a 19/20 year old kid? You're right 0.


- Incredible maturity for his age,
- Passing ability and the pace he can play at fits the league of today.
- Rebounding for his position is superb.
- Plays good defense.

He's a rookie, dude. You're expecting too much because you bought into Lavar's hype. He's still too skinny but if he bulks up, he should be able to start posting up on other guards and attack the basket more. Part of his issue is he's too hesistant with how he plays and that's why his shot selection is completely out-of-sync. I still think he's the best player in this draft. Tatum looks great but Lonzo is capable of really leading a team. Ben Simmons, though. I'm not sure there's much competition on that end. He's easily the best "rookie."

Werent you two trying to convince me Ball was going to be a good PG in his rookie season? Im not going to look it up, but you two were very confident in the preseason if im not mistaken....

I said at the time that Lonzo will be one of the worst starting PGs in the league. You said I'd be eating crow.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 07:20 PM
Werent you two trying to convince me Ball was going to be a good PG in his rookie season? Im not going to look it up, but you two were very confident in the preseason if im not mistaken....

I said at the time that Lonzo will be one of the worst starting PGs in the league. You said I'd be eating crow.

good? rookie of the year and great this season is what they said... They didnt listen when we told them summer leage talent and NBA talent are 2 very different beasts.

Now his assists are evrything and his passing... Then last night on reddit ball defenders were stating how plus/minus is the real go to stat because he led the game in it. It will always be something... I am still waiting for okafor to grow into his man body because that seems to be a thing.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 07:23 PM
ingram is taking steps in the right direction and kuzma looks like a guy that could avg 22/7 as soon as next year... its a joke how Ball gets all the hype and espn finds stats just to make a case for him when kuz and lopez are carrying.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 07:25 PM
Iíll try to find it but there is video of about 8 possessions from different games where Lonzo didnít move out of a 3x3 space for the entire 0:20.

tons more than that as well... he doesnt move and is so scared to play remotely close on a guy with fear of the guy blowing by him... He relies more on guys just missing over actual defensive measures.

BoSox47
11-04-2017, 08:01 PM
Unless he can find a way to shoot better, he is going to be a rondo type players with less defense, but more rebounds. With that said rondo was still able to have a solid career.

ldawg
11-04-2017, 08:03 PM
Its very possible for Ball to turn out as the third best pg not player but pg in This season draft class. Man you got to give Lavar some credit. At this point who is he more like? Kidd or Rhondo?

FlashBolt
11-04-2017, 10:00 PM
Werent you two trying to convince me Ball was going to be a good PG in his rookie season? Im not going to look it up, but you two were very confident in the preseason if im not mistaken....

I said at the time that Lonzo will be one of the worst starting PGs in the league. You said I'd be eating crow.

I never said that lol. I like Lonzo but it's obvious from Summer League that transitioning into the pro level would be difficult for him due to his father talking so much trash. He wasn't prepared for the type of intensity these guys are playing at.

More-Than-Most
11-04-2017, 10:42 PM
i really wish boston would have taken him lol... i would enjoy it so much more... I dont hate the lakers like I do boston.

PurpleLynch
11-05-2017, 12:02 AM
We can't evaluate him based on these few games. We will see at the end of the year if he will get better or not and next year we will see how much work he put on his shooting form.

Teeboy1487
11-05-2017, 01:05 AM
Lonzo has to change his shot.

More-Than-Most
11-05-2017, 01:07 AM
Lonzo has to change his shot.

Na his shot will fix itself when he grows into his man body.

ldawg
11-05-2017, 07:56 AM
Lakers could have been 5 and 5 if it was not for Walton insisting on leaven a dead weight in the game during crunch time.

MTone8788
11-05-2017, 08:10 AM
Lonzo will be fine. He will have his ups and downs this season as he learns the NBA. You can't question his basketball IQ and his natural talent as a point guard and to make the right play and orchestrate an offense. The Lakers as a whole have a lot of growing to do and he will receive the time and patience to figure it out.

It's ridiculous for any one to judge these rookies as busts after less than 10 games. It is a man's league and some players have different learning curves.

GREATNESS ONE
11-05-2017, 09:43 AM
Glad youíre learning to retract all your BS comments on Ingram, MTM, funny how a season make you change your tune. Last year he was a bust and now after playing with grown men, heís a step or two better and will continuously eat better as he grows. Same will happen with ZO. Iíll be sitting here waiting for ya little buddy. :laugh2:

More-Than-Most
11-05-2017, 02:19 PM
Glad youíre learning to retract all your BS comments on Ingram, MTM, funny how a season make you change your tune. Last year he was a bust and now after playing with grown men, heís a step or two better and will continuously eat better as he grows. Same will happen with ZO. Iíll be sitting here waiting for ya little buddy. :laugh2:

lol last year he was horrid... this year he is better but nothing to write home about yet... he actually has more than 1 tool to build from unlike someone we know so him getting better is expected.

KnicksorBust
11-05-2017, 04:28 PM
Lonzo will be fine. He will have his ups and downs this season as he learns the NBA. You can't question his basketball IQ and his natural talent as a point guard and to make the right play and orchestrate an offense. The Lakers as a whole have a lot of growing to do and he will receive the time and patience to figure it out.

It's ridiculous for any one to judge these rookies as busts after less than 10 games. It is a man's league and some players have different learning curves.

If you couldn't tell Anthony Bennett was a bust after 10 games then analyzing bball ain't for you.

ldawg
11-05-2017, 04:34 PM
Lonzo will be fine. He will have his ups and downs this season as he learns the NBA. You can't question his basketball IQ and his natural talent as a point guard and to make the right play and orchestrate an offense. The Lakers as a whole have a lot of growing to do and he will receive the time and patience to figure it out.

It's ridiculous for any one to judge these rookies as busts after less than 10 games. It is a man's league and some players have different learning curves. To be honest i dont think Many do. He is rated among players in his draft class not established players. with his dad doing extreme hype, and all the talk from sport sites some expected more than an below average to average player. Lebron hype was real and it seem Simons is as advertised. Ball is exactly what i expected so no surprise here. The only thing i did not expect was his rebounds. He will get better but guess what so will everyone else. Ok maybe not Fultz he going to get the Okafor treatment. He better hope they trade him sooner than Later. Lonzo remind me of Rhondo its going to boil down to who he plays with.

JAZZNC
11-05-2017, 05:32 PM
jazz are really killing it so far at 29th in scoring lol

Look at their team bro, who the **** is supposed to be scoring? Yeah Rodney Hood is sure a top flight NBA scorer. Rubio is fine as a player. And it's gonna take him a little more than a couple weeks to get used to everybody. And I'll definitely take him over George "My ***** Hurts" Hill.

Tg11
11-05-2017, 09:46 PM
Lonzo shoots from one side of his body and all NBA greats shoot from both sides of their body. Lonzo unless he manages to change his shot form and plays more aggressively then he will never be an all time great.

ldawg
11-05-2017, 10:39 PM
Lonzo shoots from one side of his body and all NBA greats shoot from both sides of their body. Lonzo unless he manages to change his shot form and plays more aggressively then he will never be an all time great.

Did you see Rhondo? Well thats going to be ball. His value is not to score his value is to protect the ball and pass it to the other Guys. So if you think he has trouble scoring you should check out how he misses the open man when he drives. That to me is another Area he needs to work on. He is a bit over hype but hes going to be decent. Dont expect him to lead a team hes going to be good as the guys around him.

ldawg
11-05-2017, 10:53 PM
At 6'6'' he should also have the skills to play sg. His game has lots of holes along with his right hand. Hes a project. He will need 2 years min.

chitownkid
11-06-2017, 08:19 AM
oh my oh my, someone said he plays good defense?

he will not be elite

TheDish87
11-06-2017, 09:41 AM
To be honest i dont think Many do. He is rated among players in his draft class not established players. with his dad doing extreme hype, and all the talk from sport sites some expected more than an below average to average player. Lebron hype was real and it seem Simons is as advertised. Ball is exactly what i expected so no surprise here. The only thing i did not expect was his rebounds. He will get better but guess what so will everyone else. Ok maybe not Fultz he going to get the Okafor treatment. He better hope they trade him sooner than Later. Lonzo remind me of Rhondo its going to boil down to who he plays with.

lol wut?

ldawg
11-06-2017, 10:20 AM
lol wut?

Dude u all kill Okafor Career and will do the Same to Fultz. What value will he have when Ben is going to have the ball 90% of the time. That was the question the moment Boston traded the pick. Got to give Boston credit they saw right pass all the hype. They Passed on Fultz, Ball, Fox, Jackson and came out with a very solid player in Tatum. Without Ben Simmons Tatum would Rookie of the year. Fultz will be in Bust conversation if he remain on the Sixers.

warfelg
11-06-2017, 10:38 AM
Lol wut?

Ishkabibble
11-06-2017, 10:45 AM
Let's see how Lonzo looks going against Marcus Smart on Wednesday in Boston.
Good luck with that one, 'zo.

GREATNESS ONE
11-06-2017, 11:09 AM
Idawg spreading his crazy in the NBA forum now LOLZ

GREATNESS ONE
11-06-2017, 11:10 AM
Let's see how Lonzo looks going against Marcus Smart on Wednesday in Boston.
Good luck with that one, 'zo.

Good thing Lonzo needs very humble, he wonít even think about trying to go 1v1. Itís a team game and hopefully we keep playing team basketball.

chitownkid
11-06-2017, 01:48 PM
did you see rhondo? Well thats going to be ball. His value is not to score his value is to protect the ball and pass it to the other guys. So if you think he has trouble scoring you should check out how he misses the open man when he drives. That to me is another area he needs to work on. He is a bit over hype but hes going to be decent. Dont expect him to lead a team hes going to be good as the guys around him.

there is no h in rondo

ldawg
11-06-2017, 02:15 PM
Idawg spreading his crazy in the NBA forum now LOLZ
Us Lakers fans too bias. One minute all over Russell when you talk about him your crazy the moment hes traded everyone chime in hes a bum, ball hog, etc. No one is ever good enough. So checking out the reaction from non Laker fans.

ldawg
11-06-2017, 02:16 PM
there is no h in rondo

There is no r in Rondo:p

ldawg
11-06-2017, 02:18 PM
Good thing Lonzo needs very humble, he wonít even think about trying to go 1v1. Itís a team game and hopefully we keep playing team basketball.Yep because we all know how Kobe ball hog his way to 5 rings.

ldawg
11-06-2017, 02:20 PM
Lol wut?
What u Wut? If you guys dont play him why not let him go or trade him?

warfelg
11-06-2017, 02:22 PM
What u Wut? If you guys dont play him why not let him go or trade him?

Heís injured....

TheDish87
11-06-2017, 02:23 PM
Dude u all kill Okafor Career and will do the Same to Fultz. What value will he have when Ben is going to have the ball 90% of the time. That was the question the moment Boston traded the pick. Got to give Boston credit they saw right pass all the hype. They Passed on Fultz, Ball, Fox, Jackson and came out with a very solid player in Tatum. Without Ben Simmons Tatum would Rookie of the year. Fultz will be in Bust conversation if he remain on the Sixers.

Fultz has played 75 injury prone minutes lol. he will be the starter and get plenty of ball handling duties when he comes back. this is nothing like the Okafor situation