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lol, please
12-04-2017, 12:35 AM
Who impacts the game / their teammates more when they are on the floor in a positive way?

Lebron, or Curry?

Discuss.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 12:46 PM
Is this even a question? Warriors can win without Curry. Cavs ain't winning games without LeBron. We saw how Cavs dropped 12 points (enough for them to lose the game) as soon as Bron took a rest for two minutes.

mrblisterdundee
12-04-2017, 05:13 PM
Curry can outshoot LeBron with a hand tied behind his back, but he can't do all the things a 6'8" high-speed freight train can.

tredigs
12-04-2017, 05:26 PM
This year RPM favors Curry again for what it is worth. Day in day out it's Curry simply because he's the better, more impactful offensive force and LeBron won't attempt to kick in his D until the playoffs. He can't sustain that level all year. So reg season, it really is Curry. Post season still LeBron until proven otherwise. What load the player carries is not what the question is.

JAZZNC
12-04-2017, 05:31 PM
It's LeBron. He can simply do more on the court than what Curry can. As stated earlier he keeps it toned down in the regular season (which is crazy to think the ridiculous #s he puts up are toned down). I do feel like Curry can fit with more teams/players and LeBron needs the right guys around him but I feel like when both are going full bore LeBron is the better more impactful player.

mightybosstone
12-04-2017, 07:18 PM
This year RPM favors Curry again for what it is worth. Day in day out it's Curry simply because he's the better, more impactful offensive force and LeBron won't attempt to kick in his D until the playoffs. He can't sustain that level all year. So reg season, it really is Curry. Post season still LeBron until proven otherwise. What load the player carries is not what the question is.

That's one statistic, dude. Literally every other advanced statistic of note favors Lebron. Take off your homer glasses for a minute, and I think you'd pretty easily see who the more impactful player was.

tredigs
12-04-2017, 07:41 PM
That's one statistic, dude. Literally every other advanced statistic of note favors Lebron. Take off your homer glasses for a minute, and I think you'd pretty easily see who the more impactful player was.


It's literally an impact stat.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 08:12 PM
That's one statistic, dude. Literally every other advanced statistic of note favors Lebron. Take off your homer glasses for a minute, and I think you'd pretty easily see who the more impactful player was.

It's funny because you would obviously endorse RPM as it favors Harden. Just take a look at the list of top RPM in the league this season.

https://i.gyazo.com/2f5897521155c5501cd742a040565dc1.png

Jokic top three. Covington is top six. Lowry at #9. Oh, Korver at 20.

2015-2016, Curry's unanimous MVP season, Draymond had a higher RPM than Curry. Guess he should have been the MVP of the team considering LeBron had the highest RPM that year.. and last year also.

Not sure why people use one stat to justify their argument when anyone could use another stat to debunk it. RPM involves so much junk that it's impossible to truly value a player's impact. Sometimes, all you need are your eyes and it's LeBron James that is more impactful.

valade16
12-04-2017, 08:20 PM
Well even using RPM, Curry is 2nd and LeBron is 4th so itís still very close, close enough you canít say that Curry is ubdisputedly more impactful.

tredigs
12-04-2017, 08:55 PM
Lol at Flashbolt's comprehension level of RPM. It's not a ranking. It simply measures a players impact in their role with teammates and opponents a counted for. Covington and Korver have been unbelievable one their particular roles. As has Curry as an alpha. And this is not just about this season, but over the last few. Playoffs are a different story though. He still has the most impact in them by and large.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 09:01 PM
Question should now be: Who voted for LeBron that isn't a Warriors fan? As usual, lol,please creates the question but hasn't given any reasons defending his choice.

IndyRealist
12-04-2017, 09:04 PM
It's literally an impact stat.

Literally just had this conversation. It's not an impact stat, that's just how people try to use it. It's a forcasting tool.

EDIT: I'm just going to write an RPM post. Even if no one reads it, at least I can just post a link.

tp13baby
12-04-2017, 09:06 PM
Not enough statistical evidence that Curry RPM is better than Lebron. Numbers to close to justify the difference and both sit in the highest percentile 99 percentile in the league.

ballislife72
12-04-2017, 10:46 PM
curry can outshoot lebron with a hand tied behind his back, but he can't do all the things a 6'8" high-speed freight train can.

agreed

Jamiecballer
12-04-2017, 10:53 PM
LeBron and anyone who says otherwise needs to get checked out

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FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 11:01 PM
LeBron and anyone who says otherwise needs to get checked out

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Allphakenny1, lol, please, tredigs

Lol.

Allphakenny1
12-05-2017, 12:48 AM
Allphakenny1, lol, please, tredigs

Lol.

The way I look at it, you put any player on the court with Curry, they play better. It does not matter if they are a super star, or a role player. When they play with Curry, their game seems to improve. LeBron's game seems to benefit catch and shoot players mostly, but when he plays with other star players, he takes away from their game.

When he played with Bosh, Bosh played much worse. Same with Wade and Love. Irving looks much better without LeBron. LeBron makes player play LeBron ball and for many it holds them back from playing their very best. When players play with curry, they tend to play their very best.

The question was about impact, not who is the better player. LeBron is obviously the better player. Curry impacts the players around him much better than LeBron does.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 01:06 AM
What do you mean by impact? If it means what effect you are having on the other 4 guys then itís curry. If it means how big a load you carry for your team then itís lebron.

valade16
12-05-2017, 01:25 AM
The way I look at it, you put any player on the court with Curry, they play better. It does not matter if they are a super star, or a role player. When they play with Curry, their game seems to improve. LeBron's game seems to benefit catch and shoot players mostly, but when he plays with other star players, he takes away from their game.

When he played with Bosh, Bosh played much worse. Same with Wade and Love. Irving looks much better without LeBron. LeBron makes player play LeBron ball and for many it holds them back from playing their very best. When players play with curry, they tend to play their very best.

The question was about impact, not who is the better player. LeBron is obviously the better player. Curry impacts the players around him much better than LeBron does.

But that isn't the same impact he's talking about. He's talking about winning. That impact is different than the impact you have on your teammates.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 01:34 AM
But that isn't the same impact he's talking about. He's talking about winning. That impact is different than the impact you have on your teammates.

It's not though. It's about how well not just you, but your team plays when you are on the court. That is your impact in a team game. It's not about individual box-score stats or anything else.

valade16
12-05-2017, 01:56 AM
It's not though. It's about how well not just you, but your team plays when you are on the court. That is your impact in a team game. It's not about individual box-score stats or anything else.

You can make your teammates better and still not be as impactful as someone who doesn't (and that's not even the case here). As a simplistic example, if player A contributes 5 wins to a team's win total and makes the rest of his teammates better so they contribute an extra 2 wins he still wouldn't be as impactful as player B who contributes 8 wins to a team's win total but doesn't make his teammates better to the extent they contribute extra wins.

Obviously, we have no definitive way of measuring wins added or impact, but virtually all measurements show LeBron and Curry neck and neck, if not LeBron having a slight edge.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 02:18 AM
lebron gives cleveland more wins than curry gives gs

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 02:35 AM
"You put anyone with Curry, they play better."

Listen, LeBron James got Mo Williams to be an All-Star player. You guys clearly forgot about the first Cleveland teams LeBron played with when he LED the Cavs to 66 wins. He's made numerous players play better than they should. Are some of you arguing about the results with LeBron? And who has Curry made better? Scratch that, who in his team isn't good? And I better not read a post about how you guys "miss" Draymond's presence in the game when he's suspended or injured only for you guys to now proclaim Curry has more impact than LeBron. That's silly. No player has a greater impact in the game than LeBron. Is Curry the leader or Draymond? There's never that question about LeBron.

Heediot
12-05-2017, 04:14 AM
Offensively Curry

Overall LeBron when he is wired and focused like he is in the playoffs.

Heediot
12-05-2017, 04:17 AM
"You put anyone with Curry, they play better."

Listen, LeBron James got Mo Williams to be an All-Star player. You guys clearly forgot about the first Cleveland teams LeBron played with when he LED the Cavs to 66 wins. He's made numerous players play better than they should. Are some of you arguing about the results with LeBron? And who has Curry made better? Scratch that, who in his team isn't good? And I better not read a post about how you guys "miss" Draymond's presence in the game when he's suspended or injured only for you guys to now proclaim Curry has more impact than LeBron. That's silly. No player has a greater impact in the game than LeBron. Is Curry the leader or Draymond? There's never that question about LeBron.

I think it's more Curry elevates Kerr's system (which is a well oiled machine), and LeBron makes 3-d guys and shooters better. Overall I think LeBron has the better impact when the stakes are higher. Curry and Durant both helped each other with the attention they drew. Looking at their numbers without each other in the playoffs it's a different story.

More-Than-Most
12-05-2017, 04:40 AM
This year RPM favors Curry again for what it is worth. Day in day out it's Curry simply because he's the better, more impactful offensive force and LeBron won't attempt to kick in his D until the playoffs. He can't sustain that level all year. So reg season, it really is Curry. Post season still LeBron until proven otherwise. What load the player carries is not what the question is.

i am sure that has nothing at all to do with the insane talent around curry... nothing at all. If you put curry on the bulls they are a good team... if you put lebron on the bulls they are a top 2 team out East and maybe beat the celtics... Lebron does more with less... curry does more with a ton... Teams come in and the focal point will always be lebron and they game plan against him and they still cant stop him.... Curry gets game planned against as well but Durant is who teams come in either just as worried about or more worried about on top of them focusing on sharp shooter klay etc etc etc.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 04:50 AM
Lebron does more with less... curry does more with a ton...

Yup, this.

Heediot
12-05-2017, 05:40 AM
Not too sure Curry does more with a tonne. But Curry can play off of anyone, and his game and unmatched range/stretch ability commands a defenses attention. He doesn't require the ball, and when he does have the ball he is a more then willing passer. Dude takes cares of the ball pretty good too.

I think Bron elevates shooters and 3-d guys, whereas Curry offensively can integrate with a myriads of pieces role players or stars. Curry opens up the court for others as well with his game. The one problem with Bron is he takes away from skilled star players, but in the overall scheme of things the team is better off when the ball is in his hands.

IndyRealist
12-05-2017, 09:25 AM
Lebron is having more impact, and I don't think it's close. However, I'll take Curry to sustain where he is at over Lebron trying to do it all the entire season.

ewing
12-05-2017, 10:03 AM
If Curry and Dam Lillard switch places does the outlook of either team change?


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mightybosstone
12-05-2017, 11:15 AM
It's literally an impact stat.

You could easily argue that WS measures impact. Or that BPM measures impact. "Impact" is a fairly subjective term. But aside from advanced metrics, anybody could take a look at the two players and clearly see that Lebron has the greater impact on his team and on the floor as a whole. He's superior in nearly every single aspect of the game with the exception of perimeter shooting, and he's integral to basically every single thing the Cavs do as a team.

Edit: Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that two of the three voters who picked Curry happen to be two of the biggest Warriors fans on this site.

mightybosstone
12-05-2017, 11:19 AM
It's funny because you would obviously endorse RPM as it favors Harden. Just take a look at the list of top RPM in the league this season.

https://i.gyazo.com/2f5897521155c5501cd742a040565dc1.png

Jokic top three. Covington is top six. Lowry at #9. Oh, Korver at 20.

2015-2016, Curry's unanimous MVP season, Draymond had a higher RPM than Curry. Guess he should have been the MVP of the team considering LeBron had the highest RPM that year.. and last year also.

Not sure why people use one stat to justify their argument when anyone could use another stat to debunk it. RPM involves so much junk that it's impossible to truly value a player's impact. Sometimes, all you need are your eyes and it's LeBron James that is more impactful.
I would never use a singular statistic to make my argument, though. If you compare two players, I think you have to look at every piece of information available to you. Harden tops a lot more lists right now than just RPM. I agree with everything else you said here.

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 11:28 AM
The same argument you make for Curry over LeBron is evidently the same argument you could also make for Curry over Jordan. It's a valid point but it doesn't equate to what LeBron and Jordan can do. It's not the same.

europagnpilgrim
12-05-2017, 11:35 AM
It's funny because you would obviously endorse RPM as it favors Harden. Just take a look at the list of top RPM in the league this season.

https://i.gyazo.com/2f5897521155c5501cd742a040565dc1.png

Jokic top three. Covington is top six. Lowry at #9. Oh, Korver at 20.

2015-2016, Curry's unanimous MVP season, Draymond had a higher RPM than Curry. Guess he should have been the MVP of the team considering LeBron had the highest RPM that year.. and last year also.

Not sure why people use one stat to justify their argument when anyone could use another stat to debunk it. RPM involves so much junk that it's impossible to truly value a player's impact. Sometimes, all you need are your eyes and it's LeBron James that is more impactful.


Finally someone on here has the heart to admit what I have been saying all this time on here


the '''eyes'' never lie

its Lebron in a landslide, take off the key talent from each team and tell me who can carry a team further because of his impact/abilities and all you have to do is go look at that 07' version of Lebron

people act like Curry won MVP and made the playoffs the year he start winning the award but he has been put out of the playoffs prior to winning, his impact is nowhere near Lebron level, put Curry on that 07' team and they wouldn't sniff the ECF

Heediot
12-05-2017, 11:43 AM
Curry might be out for a short time. He had a bad sprain. Let's see how the Warriors do without him. The arguments that he has been a catalyst/engine for them has merits, as he does help elevate the run-gun system. That's one problem with LeBron's team through his career is a lack of a system. Cavs supporting cast are doing a lot better lately without him because Wade can somewhat replicate what LeBron can do handling the ball and slashing and kicking, both guys shooting better than expected. Same goes for Westy, I think he hindered the development of Dipo and Sabonis, and the system was all Westy, and these guys have shown to be more then what appeared in OKC. I think having good coaching and a system goes a long way as well.

Toxeryll
12-05-2017, 11:49 AM
Allphakenny1, lol, please, tredigs

Lol.

homers

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:26 PM
put Curry on that 07' team and they wouldn't sniff the ECF

True, but put lebron on these warriors and weíre not winning 73, weíre not cake walking the playoffs at 16-1.

I think Iím the 90ís lebron is more valuable, but today in the super team era you gotta go curry. Heís playing in the absolute perfect era for him

Also, with curry youíre not gonna have star players leave and then look like mvp candidates. This is easily the best kyrie has ever looked. And it seems clear the lack of lebron James plays a major role in that. Like I said earlier, if impact is team effect then its curry

ewing
12-05-2017, 12:29 PM
True, but put lebron on these warriors and weíre not winning 73, weíre not cake walking the playoffs at 16-1.

I think Iím the 90ís lebron is more valuable, but today in the super team era you gotta go curry. Heís playing in the absolute perfect era for him

Isnít it always the perfect era to share the floor with the best 2 guard, an MVP level SF, and another all nba forward?


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FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:32 PM
True, but put lebron on these warriors and weíre not winning 73, weíre not cake walking the playoffs at 16-1.

I think Iím the 90ís lebron is more valuable, but today in the super team era you gotta go curry. Heís playing in the absolute perfect era for him

Also, with curry youíre not gonna have star players leave and then look like mvp candidates. This is easily the best kyrie has ever looked. And it seems clear the lack of lebron James plays a major role in that. Like I said earlier, if impact is team effect then its curry

Who the hell even cares about 73 wins? We saw an addition of KD into practically the same Warriors team and they didn't sniff 73 anyways. It proves nothing. There's so much involved in winning 73 games such as luck, fatigue, playing a team when they just have a completely bad night, ref foul call, etc., that it honestly hasn't proved much. And they lost that NBA Finals (in case you were wondering what it proves).

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:33 PM
Isnít always the perfect era to share the floor with the best 2 guard, an MVP level SF, and another all nba forward?


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Before you could build around ONE player, now you canít. Lebron teamed up with the third best player in the league and another top 10, yet they werenít able to maximize all that the way the warriors do. He also teamed up with the best pf in the game and what looks to be an mvp candidate now. But their sum isnít far greater the way ours is.

Draymond was a second rounder, Klay a double digit pick, curry himself not even in the top 5. See the opposite effect each player has

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:34 PM
Who the hell even cares about 73 wins? We saw an addition of KD into practically the same Warriors team and they didn't sniff 73 anyways. It proves nothing. There's so much involved in winning 73 games such as luck, fatigue, playing a team when they just have a completely bad night, ref foul call, etc., that it honestly hasn't proved much. And they lost that NBA Finals (in case you were wondering what it proves).

The 73 wins helps shows the ceiling that curry can achieve that lebron canít

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:36 PM
The 73 wins helps shows the ceiling that curry can achieve that lebron canít

Oh, so it's showing that Curry can achieve a ceiling greater than Jordan? Sit down, homer. You are bad at this. It shows none of what you're trying to say. They lost to a 55 win Cavs team at the end of the day. No one has cared about that 73 win season after they lost. Literally, mentioning it is depressing considering you walked away with an L.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Isnít it always the perfect era to share the floor with the best 2 guard, an MVP level SF, and another all nba forward?


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What would happen if lebron had this in his team? Lebron had the best two guard, he aged in a year. Mvp level pf, apparently forgot how to play basketball. Best finisher in the game, not able to step up. Best pf in the game, cant make a shot. Itís always something. Thereís always some reason everyone around him starts sucking, while he carries the whole load

tredigs
12-05-2017, 12:37 PM
i am sure that has nothing at all to do with the insane talent around curry... nothing at all. If you put curry on the bulls they are a good team... if you put lebron on the bulls they are a top 2 team out East and maybe beat the celtics... Lebron does more with less... curry does more with a ton... Teams come in and the focal point will always be lebron and they game plan against him and they still cant stop him.... Curry gets game planned against as well but Durant is who teams come in either just as worried about or more worried about on top of them focusing on sharp shooter klay etc etc etc.

Rest assure, the Warriors at their best have a common denominator.


Curry's on/off: +17.4
Durant's on/off: +4.1
Green's on/off: -4.7
Klay's on/off: -9.0

Without Curry on the floor, the team's net rating is at +0.1. The second lowest number among all (!) players is at +7.3 (Zaza's off-court net rating) and only three other players have an off-court net rating <+10 (Bell, Livingston, Durant). This is quite surprising even to me who knows how criticial Curry is to everything we do.

Green without Curry: -7.9
Klay without Curry: +0.7
Durant without Curry: +3.8

Curry without Klay: +25.1
Curry without Durant: +20.8
Curry without Green: +17.9

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:38 PM
What would happen if lebron had this in his team? Lebron had the best two guard, he aged in a year. Mvp level pf, apparently forgot how to play basketball. Best finisher in the game, not able to step up. Best pf in the game, cant make a shot. Itís always something. Thereís always some reason everyone around him starts sucking, while he carries the whole load

You calling Bosh an MVP level player is laughable. You really just began watching NBA like two years ago. Your join date was probably from watching ice hockey or something.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:39 PM
Oh, so it's showing that Curry can achieve a ceiling greater than Jordan? Sit down, homer. You are bad at this. It shows none of what you're trying to say. They lost to a 55 win Cavs team at the end of the day. No one has cared about that 73 win season after they lost. Literally, mentioning it is depressing considering you walked away with an L.

Itís not depressing at all. It was one of the best series Iíve seen. We reloaded with our answer to lebron. Things are looking good out here :cool:

And yes, curry gives a higher ceiling than Jordan. So what? Heís also a better shooter, or is it blasphemous to think curry is better at anything?

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:40 PM
You calling Bosh an MVP level player is laughable. You really just began watching NBA like two years ago. Your join date was probably from watching ice hockey or something.

Oh I was thinking wade. Bosh is elite level, not mvp

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:43 PM
Itís not depressing at all. It was one of the best series Iíve seen. We reloaded with our answer to lebron. Things are looking good out here :cool:

And yes, curry gives a higher ceiling than Jordan. So what? Heís also a better shooter, or is it blasphemous to think curry is better at anything?

When you say a player has a higher ceiling, that means you think they can achieve or be better than someone potentially. Considering you said he won 73 games and said that his ceiling is higher than LeBron because of that, you would also say his ceiling is higher than Jordan. You are just totally a homer. Talk to me when Curry gets a Finals MVP. And also talk to me when teams don't PURPOSELY switch up from Klay to Curry so they can drop buckets on Curry.

Lillard: It's unfair because Curry will make a three and taunt you but when you try to do the same to him, Klay is the one who guards me.

Yeah, that player has more impact and a higher ceiling than LeBron and Jordan.. just stop, pal. None of what you said translates anything about basketball. It's all gibberish zero-proof opinions.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:44 PM
Rest assure, the Warriors at their best have a common denominator.

He had a MONSTER game last night before the injury. The boy just filthy

Itís crazy to think, he went from unanmouis mvp two years ago, to most underrated player in the league today

tredigs
12-05-2017, 12:49 PM
He had a MONSTER game last night before the injury. The boy just filthy

Itís crazy to think, he went from unanmouis mvp two years ago, to most underrated player in the league today

He really only gets to go to that "**** you, unleash me" mode if they're down big. Down 20 at the half he went ahead and took the reigns and yeah you see what happens. It's definitely funny and a shame how soon people forget how dominant he can be due to how reeled in he can be on this team at times, but ultimately it's the best thing for the long term success of the team and it's just more testament to him that he's accepting of that.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:52 PM
When you say a player has a higher ceiling, that means you think they can achieve or be better than someone potentially. Considering you said he won 73 games and said that his ceiling is higher than LeBron because of that, you would also say his ceiling is higher than Jordan. You are just totally a homer. Talk to me when Curry gets a Finals MVP. And also talk to me when teams don't PURPOSELY switch up from Klay to Curry so they can drop buckets on Curry.

Lillard: It's unfair because Curry will make a three and taunt you but when you try to do the same to him, Klay is the one who guards me.

Yeah, that player has more impact and a higher ceiling than LeBron and Jordan.. just stop, pal. None of what you said translates anything about basketball. It's all gibberish zero-proof opinions.

Yes, Stephen curry on your team gives you a higher ceiling than Jordan or lebron. Neither plays off their teammates and vice versa the way curry does. Neither of their game allows teammates to shine as easy and regularly as Curryís game. I certainly understand curry is also part of a system, thereís a little Brady belichick effect going on

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:53 PM
Yes, Stephen curry on your team gives you a higher ceiling than Jordan or lebron. Neither plays off their teammates and vice versa the way curry does. Neither of their game allows teammates to shine as easy and regularly as Curryís game. I certainly understand curry is also part of a system, thereís a little Brady belichick effect going on

Better fit does not equate to a higher ceiling. Korver is a better fit than Melo but he isn't a better player. Your basketball concept is terrible. I have no idea why you bother typing. Curry being a better off-ball player (which is essentially your argument) is based off solely on his shooting ability. He does nothing better than Jordan or LeBron than that. And we've seen Curry get stopped and have incredibly poor shooting games. I guess when you meant Curry plays better on a fit perspective, you are right. Must be why he has ZERO Finals MVP's. Makes sense, totally.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:55 PM
He really only gets to go to that "**** you, unleash me" mode if they're down big. Down 20 at the half he went ahead and took the reigns and yeah you see what happens. It's definitely funny and a shame how soon people forget how dominant he can be due to how reeled in he can be on this team at times, but ultimately it's the best thing for the long term success of the team and it's just more testament to him that he's accepting of that.

Yup, dude was CRAZY scrappy. When he keeps getting boards over 6í9í power forwards, you know heís in that zone

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:56 PM
Better fit does not equate to a higher ceiling. Korver is a better fit than Melo but he isn't a better player. Your basketball concept is terrible. I have no idea why you bother typing.

Iím not sure where you got lost, but reread my posts

He can ďfitĒ any system

ewing
12-05-2017, 12:57 PM
Before you could build around ONE player, now you canít. Lebron teamed up with the third best player in the league and another top 10, yet they werenít able to maximize all that the way the warriors do. He also teamed up with the best pf in the game and what looks to be an mvp candidate now. But their sum isnít far greater the way ours is.

Draymond was a second rounder, Klay a double digit pick, curry himself not even in the top 5. See the opposite effect each player has

Slow your roll. The heat went to 4 straight finals and won 2. You guys are still trailing and both guys/teams are quite successful


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FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 12:58 PM
Iím not sure where you got lost, but reread my posts

He can ďfitĒ any system

You went from arguing that Curry has a higher ceiling than Jordan and LeBron to now saying Curry can fit any system. Yes, Curry can fit any system because he plays off-ball and can shoot. That doesn't mean he has a higher ceiling. Plenty of guys are superstars but are terrible fits on teams. A guy like Jimmy Butler is experiencing that right now. Jordan would be a TERRIBLE fit on a team that has him playing off-ball.. and so would guys like Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Bird, etc., Your argument doesn't correlate with having a higher ceiling. It's solely arguing fit on a team.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 12:59 PM
It's definitely funny and a shame how soon people forget how dominant he can be due to how reeled in he can be on this team at times, but ultimately it's the best thing for the long term success of the team and it's just more testament to him that he's accepting of that.

This is really what it comes down to right here. This is what makes curry, IMO, the most valuable player in the league today. This is what he has over lebron and other elite players. Over his teammate kd even

nastynice
12-05-2017, 01:01 PM
Slow your roll. The heat went to 4 straight finals and won 2. You guys are still trailing and both guys/teams are quite successful


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Yea but Iím just saying, they kind of change the landscape of the league with that formula, and Iím saying we did it better and the reason is curry. He ALLOWS us to do it better. So 15 years ago before the super team, curry wouldnít be as valuable as right now, because his game is so super team friendly

nastynice
12-05-2017, 01:03 PM
You went from arguing that Curry has a higher ceiling than Jordan and LeBron to now saying Curry can fit any system. Yes, Curry can fit any system because he plays off-ball and can shoot. That doesn't mean he has a higher ceiling. Plenty of guys are superstars but are terrible fits on teams. A guy like Jimmy Butler is experiencing that right now. Jordan would be a TERRIBLE fit on a team that has him playing off-ball.. and so would guys like Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Bird, etc., Your argument doesn't correlate with having a higher ceiling. It's solely arguing fit on a team.

No, ur the one trying to reduce it to fit, whereas Iím saying this guy can ďfitĒ any system, you trying to reduce his game to fitting a system is bogus. The whole reason I brought up ďsystemĒ is to say that curry benefits from a good system too, I recognize that

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 01:04 PM
No, ur the one trying to reduce it to fit, whereas Iím saying this guy can ďfitĒ any system, you trying to reduce his game to fitting a system is bogus. The whole reason I brought up ďsystemĒ is to say that curry benefits from a good system too, I recognize that

So why did you mention that Curry has a higher ceiling than Jordan and LeBron? If you said fit, no arguments here. But you're trying to make it seem as if Curry can touch Jordan and LeBron in terms of ceiling. No, he isn't even close. Those two are top three NBA players of all-time. Seeing Curry's lack of Finals MVP dominance and KD's insertion being the main reason they probably won last season, he isn't even close.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 01:07 PM
So why did you mention that Curry has a higher ceiling than Jordan and LeBron? If you said fit, no arguments here. But you're trying to make it seem as if Curry can touch Jordan and LeBron in terms of ceiling. No, he isn't even close. Those two are top three NBA players of all-time. Seeing Curry's lack of Finals MVP dominance and KD's insertion being the main reason they probably won last season, he isn't even close.

By ceiling I mean team ceiling. He gives your team an overall higher ceiling than Jordan and lebron can, because of how his game allows others to dominate so easily

ewing
12-05-2017, 01:12 PM
This is totally off the rails


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nastynice
12-05-2017, 01:14 PM
This is totally off the rails


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lol, Iím just saying curry is a better team player, and in a super team era that ability becomes magnified and a big factor between getting a ring or not

Heís better than lebron in this respect.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 01:18 PM
lol, Iím just saying curry is a better team player, and in a super team era that ability becomes magnified and a big factor between getting a ring or not

Heís better than lebron in this respect.

It's a completely rational and valid point. Trust me, on the larger/smarter site it's not the hot take that you see on here to be on this side. It's standard. Really weird/vocal hate or dismissal of Curry and the Warriors on here.

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 01:21 PM
lol, Iím just saying curry is a better team player, and in a super team era that ability becomes magnified and a big factor between getting a ring or not

Heís better than lebron in this respect.

In terms of fit, totally, Curry is a better superstar fit than most NBA players who haven't required the ball to be dominant. He's the first NBA superstar with this type of shooting so this is more of a transitional period of basketball that is still developing. Right now, you could even make a case Harden is a better fit than Jordan as well on a superstar team because of his shooting. But let's reverse this entire comparison.

Who has an easier time adjusting when you trade LeBron to the Warriors for Curry? Who do you think comes out with a higher possibility of winning the championship when you insert LeBron into the Warriors lineup instead of Curry? Your fit involves many factors for Curry. If you don't have a guy like Draymond/Klay to play that level of defense and then also have another individual like Shaun Livingston (who is as good of a bench PG as any other player in the league), you have a guy like Iguodala who could come in and guard any perimeter player. On top of that, you add Kevin Durant. His fit is boosted by having to do only one thing: Shoot the ball. It's being amplified by the fact he doesn't really have to do anything else. As long as he shoots the ball, his team will benefit. Many of these other superstars have never gotten that type of luxury.

Hawkeye15
12-05-2017, 01:22 PM
I mean, any team with LeBron James is going to be a contender. He is easily the answer.

FlashBolt
12-05-2017, 01:22 PM
"Larger and smarter site." They must be too smart for you considering you're here debating with amateurs, then. Actually, everyone hates the Warriors because of their fans. You can check Reddit and ISH. I guess you meant the official YouTube channel for the Warriors when you said larger/smarter site.

WaDe03
12-05-2017, 01:26 PM
He had a MONSTER game last night before the injury. The boy just filthy

Itís crazy to think, he went from unanmouis mvp two years ago, to most underrated player in the league today

He's underrated to some now because everyone is always so quick with the whole out with the old in with the new ****. That's the same reason people were trying to say Curry KD etc were better than LeBron when they clearly weren't. People are dying for someone to take the torch from LeBron.

WaDe03
12-05-2017, 01:29 PM
"Larger and smarter site." They must be too smart for you considering you're here debating with amateurs, then. Actually, everyone hates the Warriors because of their fans. You can check Reddit and ISH. I guess you meant the official YouTube channel for the Warriors when you said larger/smarter site.

There are a lot of smart people on the site he's talking about, even a couple from this site too, there's a lot of ****ing idiots on there too though. You'll find it everywhere.

Jamiecballer
12-05-2017, 01:38 PM
i mean, has everyone forgotten how the warriors got significantly better as the team AROUND Steph improved?

Tg11
12-05-2017, 01:42 PM
LeBron obviously

tredigs
12-05-2017, 01:53 PM
There are a lot of smart people on the site he's talking about, even a couple from this site too, there's a lot of ****ing idiots on there too though. You'll find it everywhere.

The highs there are significantly higher and a question like this is never scoffed at (it is had all the time), but looked at rationally and thoughtfully. There are idiots and trolls as well of course, but they are called out and "muted" for the most part. This site is just the fun **** show.

ewing
12-05-2017, 02:34 PM
Didnít the warriors lose to Cleveland with a super team and have to add another MVP to beat them?


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More-Than-Most
12-05-2017, 02:39 PM
Rest assure, the Warriors at their best have a common denominator.

I dont disagree and if we are comparing him to any other player id have no rebuttal but if we are talking team impact currys impact is a culmination of the team around him meaning if he were on the bulls they would win more games than they would without him by probably 10 games but he would be a much worse player than he is because teams would come in focused on just him which teams cant do right now because green/klay/durant.... lebron has always and will always be what teams focus on and you could put him out there with any roster right now and they make the playoffs in either conference

More-Than-Most
12-05-2017, 02:42 PM
Didnít the warriors lose to Cleveland with a super team and have to add another MVP to beat them?


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yup and they did it by exposing curry.... which is why if curry is on a neutral team not littered with talent/threats you could focus on him and the team would never actually contend or make the playoffs... his defense/size are the issues and you could limit him by making others beat you..... curry and the warriors knew this... they knew they could very well lose to a hot lebron in any finals if it was just curry/green/klay and thus is why they courted and or begged durant because if the cavs do what they did to curry in that series durant would just go off and beat them.


Curry is amazing but he isnt lebron or even durant.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 02:50 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6mfg7q/oc_750_stephen_currys_impact_on_his_teammates_ts/

Teammates ts% with/without Curry last year.

GoferKing_
12-05-2017, 02:52 PM
LeBron took Boobie Gibson to the finals, doubt Curry could do that.

ewing
12-05-2017, 02:53 PM
yup and they did it by exposing curry.... which is why if curry is on a neutral team not littered with talent/threats you could focus on him and the team would never actually contend or make the playoffs... his defense/size are the issues and you could limit him by making others beat you..... curry and the warriors knew this... they knew they could very well lose to a hot lebron in any finals if it was just curry/green/klay and thus is why they courted and or begged durant because if the cavs do what they did to curry in that series durant would just go off and beat them.


Curry is amazing but he isnt lebron or even durant.

I thought that happened. Its really amazing that the team that is all about ďfitĒ has only won when everyone else was decimated by injuries and wheb they had clear advantage in talent.


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ewing
12-05-2017, 02:54 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6mfg7q/oc_750_stephen_currys_impact_on_his_teammates_ts/

Teammates ts% with/without Curry last year.

^^^ big and smart


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mngopher35
12-05-2017, 03:05 PM
I have said it before but I think Curry is going to take the biggest individual hit to his legacy with the KD move. I truly think he was headed toward top 10 greatness with his ability/situation. However now people are trying to hype KD AND Curry above Lebron at times while ignoring the arguments they make to move on to others depending on the person lol. Curry has a big influence on others/teammates there is no doubt but his individual numbers have taken a bit of a hit still. Durant got those individual numbers last year in the playoffs but it was evident to everyone except a few Warriors fans how easy those shots/opportunities came (in part due to Curry! can't argue this one way and not see it obviously factors in when looking at others imo).

My opinion here is that it really has to be obvious they have taken over for me to give them credit. They have to clearly be dominant individually and carrying a team in the same way he has. Right now I would say Durant again is proving to not be the important/best/leader of his team so I feel he obviously isn't in the convo (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=LeBron+James&player_id1_select=LeBron+James&y1=2018&player_id1=jamesle01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Stephen+Curry&player_id2_select=Stephen+Curry&y2=2018&player_id2=curryst01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Kevin+Durant&player_id3_select=Kevin+Durant&y3=2018&player_id3=duranke01&idx=players) thats a player comparison this season.

For Curry what it will take imo is an insane playoff run that is clearly better than Lebron (or I guess evidence in the playoff Lebron is falling off now). I don't think he is very far off but it is just harder to separate the individual on these Warrior teams given their talent. I think generally speaking though people would argue KD over Curry like they did here this offseason. I personally think it's clearly Curry leading that team and he is the best player.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 03:05 PM
^^^ big and smart
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Know your audience. I'll just toss out nuggets for you. Your Dame/Curry comment was epic though.

ewing
12-05-2017, 03:10 PM
Know your audience. I'll just toss out nuggets for you. Your Dame/Curry comment was epic though.

I think the Warriors would be favorites to win the NBA title with Lillard and Portland would be a 1st or 2nd exit with Curry. Do you disagree?


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aman_13
12-05-2017, 03:16 PM
Literally just had this conversation. It's not an impact stat, that's just how people try to use it. It's a forcasting tool.

EDIT: I'm just going to write an RPM post. Even if no one reads it, at least I can just post a link.

It is an impact stat, it just doesn't tell you what's happening now.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 03:21 PM
I think the Warriors would be favorites to win the NBA title with Lillard and Portland would be a 1st or 2nd exit with Curry. Do you disagree?


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It's just a terrible, meaningless take. The Warriors would suffer significantly and Portland would benefit significantly. Brons not getting out of the 2nd round in the West in Dame's place, is he? No, almost certainly not. It's the most tired/nothing argument.

ewing
12-05-2017, 03:25 PM
It's just a terrible, meaningless take. The Warriors would suffer significantly and Portland would benefit significantly. Brons not getting out of the 2nd round in the West in Dame's place, is he? No, almost certainly not. It's the most tired/nothing argument.

It means Curryís impact is the equivalent of Damien Lillardís. You put Bron on Portland and give them a run of mill starting pg in place of Dame I think they are damn good.


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IndyRealist
12-05-2017, 03:26 PM
It is an impact stat, it just doesn't tell you what's happening now.

Ok yeah. My point is that it shouldn't be used to say "player a is doing better than player b this year" which is how everyone uses it.

aman_13
12-05-2017, 03:31 PM
Ok yeah. My point is that it shouldn't be used to say "player a is doing better than player b this year" which is how everyone uses it.

Yeah I just wanted to clarify.

I'd appreciate that write up btw. I remember we had an advance stats thread. I wonder if we can find that.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 03:33 PM
In terms of fit, totally, Curry is a better superstar fit than most NBA players who haven't required the ball to be dominant. He's the first NBA superstar with this type of shooting so this is more of a transitional period of basketball that is still developing. Right now, you could even make a case Harden is a better fit than Jordan as well on a superstar team because of his shooting. But let's reverse this entire comparison.

Who has an easier time adjusting when you trade LeBron to the Warriors for Curry? Who do you think comes out with a higher possibility of winning the championship when you insert LeBron into the Warriors lineup instead of Curry? Your fit involves many factors for Curry. If you don't have a guy like Draymond/Klay to play that level of defense and then also have another individual like Shaun Livingston (who is as good of a bench PG as any other player in the league), you have a guy like Iguodala who could come in and guard any perimeter player. On top of that, you add Kevin Durant. His fit is boosted by having to do only one thing: Shoot the ball. It's being amplified by the fact he doesn't really have to do anything else. As long as he shoots the ball, his team will benefit. Many of these other superstars have never gotten that type of luxury.

Putting Curry on the cavs makes them a worse team. Putting lebron on the warriors makes them a worse team.

Lebron has the bigger impact on scrubs. Curry has the bigger impact on stars.

The bar has been set. The latter will get you further than the former

nastynice
12-05-2017, 03:37 PM
i mean, has everyone forgotten how the warriors got significantly better as the team AROUND Steph improved?

Sure, but why does one player constantly have teammates that improve when with him as compared to without, whereas as lebron seems to have the opposite effect?

Cuz there's only one ball. Same reason the warriors would be worse with lebron, even tho on paper they should be better

nastynice
12-05-2017, 03:38 PM
It means Curryís impact is the equivalent of Damien Lillardís. You put Bron on Portland and give them a run of mill starting pg in place of Dame I think they are damn good.


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They're hella similar game

IndyRealist
12-05-2017, 03:39 PM
Yeah I just wanted to clarify.

I'd appreciate that write up btw. I remember we had an advance stats thread. I wonder if we can find that.

I'm compiling sources as we speak. Probably have it up this weekend

aman_13
12-05-2017, 03:43 PM
I'm compiling sources as we speak. Probably have it up this weekend

Nice!!

nastynice
12-05-2017, 03:43 PM
Curry is amazing but he isnt lebron or even durant.

haha, bro, Curry is DEFINITELY better than Durant. I think ultimately he's even better than lebron, but everyone will just dismiss that as being a homer, but since kd is a warrior too, I cant tell you very easily curry is overall better player.

Or let's put it like this. If you can only keep one of them, you keep curry and you don't think twice about it. If cleveland offers you lebron for you curry, you hang up the phone and you don't think twice about it. Wether that makes him the best player or not, or the most impactful player, I don't know, but that much I can say with a lot of confidence.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 04:04 PM
It means Curryís impact is the equivalent of Damien Lillardís. You put Bron on Portland and give them a run of mill starting pg in place of Dame I think they are damn good.


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You just said nothing.

And yeah nasty, KD being better than Curry is a super funny narrative. He's incredible, but no, not close to as good.

nastynice
12-05-2017, 04:12 PM
You just said nothing.

And yeah nasty, KD being better than Curry is a super funny narrative. He's incredible, but no, not close to as good.

Yea, its all subjective. KD is the guy that when we just need someone to go get a bucket, we put the ball in his hands and say play. 1 on 1, he's better. Does that make him better overall? IMO curry is better because its really him that allows the warriors to be what we are. Its a team effort, but his gravity is what makes all our motion so effective. Its not a coincidence that getting uncontested layups cuz someone slipped by while the ball was on the perimeter is something that happens regularly, cuz so many eyes are on curry. That boy can pump fake from 35ft deep and you'd be a fool to not leave your feet, lol, he a diff type a sav

But no doubt, he is in the perfect system for him. That's what I meant by Brady Belichek. Not only currently in the perfect system, but also before this, had the perfect coach who gave him the ultimate green light.

Who knows tho. One ankle twist changes everything. That **** looked ugly last night

ewing
12-05-2017, 04:20 PM
You just said nothing.

And yeah nasty, KD being better than Curry is a super funny narrative. He's incredible, but no, not close to as good.

No you said nothing.


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ewing
12-05-2017, 04:23 PM
Treg remember when GS was romping through the regular season and you expected everyone to agree with you that they were the greatest team in the history of the NBA and the Curry was a better offensive weapon then Jordan? I bet you still think you were right. Do you?


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Heediot
12-05-2017, 05:19 PM
The argument that Curry could be better than KD for GS has its validity and merits, but the jury's still out on how he performs in another system, which also factors in who's better overall. There are many things to consider.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 05:33 PM
Treg remember when GS was romping through the regular season and you expected everyone to agree with you that they were the greatest team in the history of the NBA and the Curry was a better offensive weapon then Jordan? I bet you still think you were right. Do you?


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Lol yes they had a fantastic case for both, unquestionably. The torn knee mid-playoffs, suspension and ultimately losing obviously paint a different picture, but yes that was a GOAT level team and his offense was GOAT level. This is not a hot take.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 05:46 PM
Kerr's subjective opinion from last month for what it's worth (as a guy who played alongside peak Jordan and Duncan, more than ours to be sure): https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kerr-says-curry-more-impactful-than-jordan-he-puts-the-fear-of-god-into-defenses/


"He is the most impactful offensive player in terms of what he does to the defense -- maybe ever," Kerr said. "There are guys, obviously, Michael Jordan impacted things. But the way Steph plays, [he] puts the fear of God into defenses like nobody I've ever seen.
"Nobody's been able to shoot off the dribble from 35 feet in a normal setting. But he does that, which changes an entire game. So everything we do revolves around Steph. You can talk about where he stands in terms of the best players in the league. He's obviously one of the best. By that standard, he's the best.
"If you want to just say who effects the game the most offensively, Steph's the best player in the NBA. But there's different ways of measuring that stuff. From a two-way standpoint, if you like the two-way guys, maybe it's Kawhi Leonard or KD [Kevin Durant] or LeBron because they're bigger and stronger and they can protect the rim, or whatever.
"Ö All you have to do is just look on the impact [Curry] makes every time he's on the floor for us to know that everything we do, everything we run offensively, the other guys' ability to make plays, Shaun [Livingston], Andre [Iguodala], Draymond [Green], it all starts with Steph's gravity."

mngopher35
12-05-2017, 05:47 PM
I mean I don't agree with Ewing but he is just playing the game Nasty does in every thread. This thread is about Curry so it is obvious he props up his teammates in a big way. In a Durant thread when you bring that up it is like the amount of attention you receive from a defense or help to get open look from teammates etc. doesn't matter. It's just about a stats from a single finals without that context. Now with Curry it is probably RPM that is the best judge and it is obvious he is leading Etc. etc. You can try and prop these guys individually with certain criteria but in order to prop up the other one a completely different criteria is usually needed.

The other side can just point to GS winning a title and 73 games without Durant. You can probably just remove him from the team and they are still the favorites. Replace Curry with X solid pg and they still look like the most talented/best team in the league still etc. Just point to how you can downgrade any of them and still be clear favorites to win basically proving that it isn't just the individuals here separating themselves, it is just the ridiculous stacking of talent helping them get here. Again this doesn't much context into account but it is just playing the game from both sides here like Warriors fans seem to do on the regular.

IMO the reality is in the middle with the individuals themselves needing to actually prove themselves at a certain level instead of just being given credit due to specific numbers/stats/awards while ignoring the same criteria for the other. It is really hard to do given they are surrounded by so much talent. To me there is clearly a bit more work to do for Curry to really be given that top spot over Lebron although I won't deny it is close/a discussion. I think it is further away with Durant personally as I feel he got overrated due to last years finals.

If you want to say that Curry is better than Lebron due mostly to RPM stuff I really really hope you haven't been propping the guy who has lead his own team/Westbrook one season in RPM/RAPM since 2012 as some top 25 or higher player all time (Durant). If you can't outplay Westbrook most years in what is clearly a defining stat for Curry then you just can't be as good as some try to claim imo. I can go further into the comparison but I am serious about Westy/Durant being a discussion if you really believe in RPM (and I personally do think it is a good tool). 2013-2016 in the playoffs Westy also lead KD in PER, WS/48, and BPM so it wasn't just like RS RPM alone either he had him in many areas come playoff time over that span too and I am fully relying on one stat. I just hope people can stay a little more consistent with the criteria instead of propping up a single stat here, a single performance without context there etc etc.

I actually kind of agree with the Warriors fans on this one actually in that I do think it is a discussion (Lebron might be best but it isn't far and away or anything imo) and Curry is better than KD to me as well. It just is hard to take seriously given the reasoning used now compared to what is seen in other threads on KD etc.

ewing
12-05-2017, 05:49 PM
Lol yes they had a fantastic case for both, unquestionably. The torn knee mid-playoffs, suspension and ultimately losing obviously paint a different picture, but yes that was a GOAT level team and his offense was GOAT level. This is not a hot take.

Nvm


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ewing
12-05-2017, 05:51 PM
[QUOTE=ewing;320232

Mmmmmm

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valade16
12-05-2017, 09:57 PM
Rest assure, the Warriors at their best have a common denominator.

Doesnít this post contradict everything youíve said about Draymond Green? Youíve gone on and on for years about how Green is top 10ish because of his incredible impact and now youíre showing numbers that his impact plummets and is pedestrian when heís not playing with Curry.

valade16
12-05-2017, 10:01 PM
It's a completely rational and valid point. Trust me, on the larger/smarter site it's not the hot take that you see on here to be on this side. It's standard. Really weird/vocal hate or dismissal of Curry and the Warriors on here.

And many here (the non-trollish ones) have taken the question seriously and determined itís LeBron. This doesnít appear to be a hot take for many, it just seems you are angry that not everyone is saying itís Curry.

Curry definitely has a case. Curry the year they won 73 wins is in the pantheon of best stretches from a player Iíve ever seen (along with MJ, Shaq and LeBron). He absolutely deserves consideration, but LeBron is on that level as well and is currently playing statistically better (or at least statistically even) with a far worse team.

You are confusing people not agreeing here with being Warriors haters and that couldnít be further from the truth. You had to talk everyone into believing the Warriors werenít so much better than the rest of the league theyíd steamroll everyone and waltz to a title a month ago, and now this site underrated them? Nah, donít think so.

tredigs
12-05-2017, 10:32 PM
And many here (the non-trollish ones) have taken the question seriously and determined itís LeBron. This doesnít appear to be a hot take for many, it just seems you are angry that not everyone is saying itís Curry.

Curry definitely has a case. Curry the year they won 73 wins is in the pantheon of best stretches from a player Iíve ever seen (along with MJ, Shaq and LeBron). He absolutely deserves consideration, but LeBron is on that level as well and is currently playing statistically better (or at least statistically even) with a far worse team.

You are confusing people not agreeing here with being Warriors haters and that couldnít be further from the truth. You had to talk everyone into believing the Warriors werenít so much better than the rest of the league theyíd steamroll everyone and waltz to a title a month ago, and now this site underrated them? Nah, donít think so.

A) That's not what I said in the least and I too agree it's a debate (one that I sided with Bron in the playoffs to this point mind you). Those laughing it off like Flash, etc are the jokes here.

B) Green has more than enough evidence over the years to show his immense value (which granted has felt down this year). What I was showing was simply more evidence to throw on top of the mountain of evidence proving Curry's consistent/historical offensive impact over the past half decade.

Jamiecballer
12-05-2017, 11:10 PM
Sure, but why does one player constantly have teammates that improve when with him as compared to without, whereas as lebron seems to have the opposite effect?

Cuz there's only one ball. Same reason the warriors would be worse with lebron, even tho on paper they should be betterThat's very easy to answer. Because he's so much better at basketball than the rest that it would be idiotic for anyone to not take a backseat just as it was with Jordan and all the greats.

Also, a little commom sense is required. Do you know anyone who thought Bosh or Wade or Love wouldn't take a hit moving from a team without a Lebron to one that has a LeBron?


But you are right that Lebron sucks up a lot of basketball oxygen, moreso than Curry. Nice try crediting Curry for the organic natural growth of the complementary players btw.
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ewing
12-05-2017, 11:35 PM
A) That's not what I said in the least and I too agree it's a debate (one that I sided with Bron in the playoffs to this point mind you). Those laughing it off like Flash, etc are the jokes here.

B) Green has more than enough evidence over the years to show his immense value (which granted has felt down this year). What I was showing was simply more evidence to throw on top of the mountain of evidence proving Curry's consistent/historical offensive impact over the past half decade.

The its not a debate if Bron is clearly the more impactful post-season performer he is clearly the more impactful player.

tredigs
12-06-2017, 12:42 AM
The its not a debate if Bron is clearly the more impactful post-season performer he is clearly the more impactful player.

It is a debate as Curry is still the more potent force for his team offensively imo, only losing ground when Bron can afford to expend more energy and reach another level defensively. Something that doesn't happen for him every post season mind you. Why do you act so offended by this question? It is a very legitimate debate.

ewing
12-06-2017, 01:01 AM
It is a debate as Curry is still the more potent force for his team offensively imo, only losing ground when Bron can afford to expend more energy and reach another level defensively. Something that doesn't happen for him every post season mind you. Why do you act so offended by this question? It is a very legitimate debate.

If you are admitting Bron is clearly the more impactful playoff player it isnít. The regular season tells us both guys are really good but they are facing teams that in comparison are rebuilding or flatout tanking 2 out of 3 nights.


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tredigs
12-06-2017, 01:17 AM
If you are admitting Bron is clearly the more impactful playoff player it isnít. The regular season tells us both guys are really good but they are facing teams that in comparison are rebuilding or flatout tanking 2 out of 3 nights.


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I said I'd give one the edge in the regular season, and the other the edge in the post season, and offensively I have Curry #1 in the NBA impact wise whenever the game is played. It bears mentioning that I flat out don't think Bron can maintain that level on both ends all year, it's much more than your false interpretation of the competition (2/3rds? Lol). Long story short, yes, it is a debate, with no shortage of the stats on Curry's side.

ewing
12-06-2017, 01:19 AM
I said I'd give one the edge in the regular season, and the other the edge in the post season, and offensively I have Curry #1 in the NBA impact wise whenever the game is played. It bears mentioning that I flat out don't think Bron can maintain that level on both ends all year, it's much more than your false interpretation of the competition (2/3rds? Lol). Long story short, yes, it is a debate, with no shortage of the stats on Curry's side.

you are invested

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 01:35 AM
Lebron is having more impact, and I don't think it's close. However, I'll take Curry to sustain where he is at over Lebron trying to do it all the entire season.

Really? LeBron is doing this in his sleep. And the better his teammates play around him, the easier his buckets become. LeBron is playing at this level and he is chilling. He rarely gives 90% effort. He can lock down defend anyone in the NBA when he gives 90%.

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 01:39 AM
True, but put lebron on these warriors and weíre not winning 73, weíre not cake walking the playoffs at 16-1.

I think Iím the 90ís lebron is more valuable, but today in the super team era you gotta go curry. Heís playing in the absolute perfect era for him

Also, with curry youíre not gonna have star players leave and then look like mvp candidates. This is easily the best kyrie has ever looked. And it seems clear the lack of lebron James plays a major role in that. Like I said earlier, if impact is team effect then its curry

Stop it. You likely go undefeated.

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 01:46 AM
He really only gets to go to that "**** you, unleash me" mode if they're down big. Down 20 at the half he went ahead and took the reigns and yeah you see what happens. It's definitely funny and a shame how soon people forget how dominant he can be due to how reeled in he can be on this team at times, but ultimately it's the best thing for the long term success of the team and it's just more testament to him that he's accepting of that.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Allphakenny1
12-06-2017, 01:48 AM
Really? LeBron is doing this in his sleep. And the better his teammates play around him, the easier his buckets become. LeBron is playing at this level and he is chilling. He rarely gives 90% effort. He can lock down defend anyone in the NBA when he gives 90%.

This was once true, but we cannot just take it as a given anymore. The last time we saw him in the playoffs/championship, he was absolutely dismantled by KD. He is going to have to prove it again if we are still going to consider him an elite defender.

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 01:58 AM
Putting Curry on the cavs makes them a worse team. Putting lebron on the warriors makes them a worse team.

Lebron has the bigger impact on scrubs. Curry has the bigger impact on stars.

The bar has been set. The latter will get you further than the former

You are on drugs! Lebron on GS would undefeated if they really wanted to.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:00 AM
This was once true, but we cannot just take it as a given anymore. The last time we saw him in the playoffs/championship, he was absolutely dismantled by KD. He is going to have to prove it again if we are still going to consider him an elite defender.

Considering he couldn't give 90% because he was giving 1000% percent on offense, it is true. Look at what LeBron has already done against KP, Blake, and just the other day, he completely stopped Schroder. Schroder was dominating the Cavs and attacking the basket every chance he could. I think LeBron held him to six points in the second half after Schroder dropped 24 in the first half. Obviously LeBron can't do it every night against any player but when he puts his mind to it and has the luxury of teammates being able to score offensively, he is still one of the best defenders in the NBA. The guy doesn't have to try on defense in the regular season.. why does he have to?

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:02 AM
You are on drugs! Lebron on GS would undefeated if they really wanted to.

I think he just admitted that the Cavs had no stars considering he said Curry on the Cavs make them worse. This guy just admitted that LeBron has no stars on his team. I never want to hear this guy complain about LeBron's superstar teammates again. And it's funny he says LeBron has the bigger impact on the scrubs.. So what he's telling us is that Curry can only make his teammates better if they are already good? Lmao!

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 02:03 AM
Sure, but why does one player constantly have teammates that improve when with him as compared to without, whereas as lebron seems to have the opposite effect?

Cuz there's only one ball. Same reason the warriors would be worse with lebron, even tho on paper they should be better

Because no matter what team Lebron is on, the team is always better when Lebron is initiating. Other players raw stats may go down, but there efficiency goes up, and overall team efficiency goes up and the same would happen on GS, accept so would team defense and rebounding. They would literally have absolutely zero weaknesses now. As shown the 73 win team, while more explosive than the following year, they were also easier to exploit and take advantage of because they did have weakness. Put Lebron on GS instead of Curry, and that team would smash everyone so horribly bad. Just think. LeBron on the floor, they go up by 20, LEbron off the floor they go up by 20.
Stop Bruh with that horrible take that makes no sense.

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 02:07 AM
You just said nothing.

And yeah nasty, KD being better than Curry is a super funny narrative. He's incredible, but no, not close to as good.

Oh my goodness Tre. Curry can really get you carried away with it. I think KD is close to Jordan, but yeah, not close to as good as Curry.

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 02:14 AM
It is a debate as Curry is still the more potent force for his team offensively imo, only losing ground when Bron can afford to expend more energy and reach another level defensively. Something that doesn't happen for him every post season mind you. Why do you act so offended by this question? It is a very legitimate debate.

David Robinson was easily more impactful in the regular season than Hakeem Olajuwon every single year. (Using whatever stats you are using to determine impact) I guess this statement doesn't mean much though huh?

IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 02:19 AM
This was once true, but we cannot just take it as a given anymore. The last time we saw him in the playoffs/championship, he was absolutely dismantled by KD. He is going to have to prove it again if we are still going to consider him an elite defender.

Well I meant anyone not named Harden, KD, Kawaii...but i mean guys on the Derozen level and below. Which is like 99% of the league. There are about 5-7 guys he won't be able to stop, but guys like Porzingus, who nobody else can stop, will get halted when need be.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:22 AM
Lol @ KD not being close to as good as Curry. Let's just say this: If I am watching two players play, I would hate to play against KD moreso than Curry. Curry is legendary for what he's known to do: Being an elite shooter who can draw attention from anywhere on the court. But if you don't run plays the for guy and stick a hustle defender on him, we've seen him struggle. Why do you think most teams play aggressive against Curry? Because he can be agitated. The way Warriors run plays for Curry and have him play off-ball is a testament of their overall ball movement. You can't stop KD. LeBron tried in the 2012 NBA Finals and KD still dropped 30 on over 50%. I would take Curry over KD but I think it's laughable people are saying it's not even close.

ewing
12-06-2017, 02:22 AM
Well I meant anyone not named Harden, KD, Kawaii...but i mean guys on the Derozen level and below. Which is like 99% of the league. There are about 5-7 guys he won't be able to stop, but guys like Porzingus, who nobody else can stop, will get halted when need be.

No need to bring kp into this


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IKnowHoops
12-06-2017, 02:27 AM
I think he just admitted that the Cavs had no stars considering he said Curry on the Cavs make them worse. This guy just admitted that LeBron has no stars on his team. I never want to hear this guy complain about LeBron's superstar teammates again. And it's funny he says LeBron has the bigger impact on the scrubs.. So what he's telling us is that Curry can only make his teammates better if they are already good? Lmao!

He's trying to say Bron makes great players worse...because there stats go down...but what he fails to realize...there are just so many more scenarios where Lebron is the guy you want to have the ball than Curry. Lebrun teammates become more efficient.

His Logic says
KD made Russell worse because when he left Russell was better.
Oladipo made Russell better simply because he wasn't good enough to be 1b on a championship team and deferred to russell because hi lack of talent didn't allow him to individually get it done.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:36 AM
He's trying to say Bron makes great players worse...because there stats go down...but what he fails to realize...there are just so many more scenarios where Lebron is the guy you want to have the ball than Curry. Lebrun teammates become more efficient.

His Logic says
KD made Russell worse because when he left Russell was better.
Oladipo made Russell better simply because he wasn't good enough to be 1b on a championship team and deferred to russell because hi lack of talent didn't allow him to individually get it done.

Here's what he said:

LeBron only makes bums play better.
Curry makes stars play better.

"Curry won't make the Cavs play better but LeBron won't make the Warriors play better."

In saying that, he basically implies that Cavs have no stars because he already said, "Curry won't make Cavs better" despite him also saying "Curry makes stars play better."

All he did was admit that the Cavs aren't filled with stars.

On the contrary, I do think LeBron could also make the Warriors a better team.

1) He would take all the negative attention. KD wouldn't have to worry about taking the blame because LeBron would gladly accept it as he has been doing.

2) LeBron would adjust. Just the other day, he took ZERO shots in the 3rd Q because he was more interested in getting his teammates involved. LeBron can't shoot like Curry but Curry can't attack the basket like LeBron and he damn sure ain't going to let other players switch up on him for an easier basket.

3) If you put LeBron on the Warriors, sorry, NO NBA team is beating them. At least now, what do we say?: Cavs have a chance because of LeBron. Well, Cavs have zero chance if they have Curry. It's the one part of the Warriors signing that is totally underrated. The Warriors signed KD not only because they wanted to beat the Cavs.. they wanted to remove OKC from being contenders. And LeBron joining the Warriors in exchange for Curry does exactly that.. eliminates ALL contenders.

tredigs
12-06-2017, 02:37 AM
To recap:

Ridiculous chart of Curry's teammates TS% with/without him in the 2016/17 season: http://i.imgur.com/q3H0ZXY.png

Curry had the higher Offensive RPM each of the last 4 seasons (3rd/1st/1st/2nd league wide).

On/Off with different teammates so far this year:



Curry's on/off: +17.4
Durant's on/off: +4.1
Green's on/off: -4.7
Klay's on/off: -9.0

Green without Curry: -7.9
Klay without Curry: +0.7
Durant without Curry: +3.8

Curry without Klay: +25.1
Curry without Durant: +20.8
Curry without Green: +17.9


A 538 long piece chalk full of stats claiming Curry was probably even the true MVP in his "down year" last season (I disagree for different reasons but it's a big deep dive on his impact). https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-case-for-stephen-curry-mvp/


Steve Kerr's take on it following their latest title: "Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr said Wednesday that Stephen Curry is more impactful on defenses than Michael Jordan. "Everything we do is based on Steph," Kerr said. "From the very beginning of this run, Steph was the guy who started it Even Michael Jordanópeople had the Jordan rulesóbut nothing has ever been as dramatic as what I've seen from opponents' defensive schemes as how they have to deal with Steph,"."Literally our offensive system is built around the chaos that he creates for defenses. I've never seen a player who elicited so much of a defensive schematic response because of his ability to shoot from 30 feet and dribble around everybody." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717120-steve-kerr-stephen-currys-impact-on-opposing-ds-greater-than-michael-jordans



At the very least, you'd be a fool to laugh off the discussion.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:49 AM
All I know is that when Draymond is injured or out, I don't want to hear anyone saying how much the Warriors miss Draymond. It seems when he is out, all Warriors fans do is say Draymond is the heart of the team and then now, all you guys do is disregard how much impact Draymond has on the Warriors.

valade16
12-06-2017, 03:04 AM
I think Curry has the greatest offensive impact of any player in the league.

nastynice
12-06-2017, 05:42 AM
That's very easy to answer. Because he's so much better at basketball than the rest that it would be idiotic for anyone to not take a backseat just as it was with Jordan and all the greats.

Also, a little commom sense is required. Do you know anyone who thought Bosh or Wade or Love wouldn't take a hit moving from a team without a Lebron to one that has a LeBron?


But you are right that Lebron sucks up a lot of basketball oxygen, moreso than Curry. Nice try crediting Curry for the organic natural growth of the complementary players btw.
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Actually if lebron were on golden state it would be idiotic to play thru him. Heís not better than golden state at basketball. We won, not him

They could take a hit joining lebrons squad, thatís fine, same way kd would take a hit joining lebrons squad. But notice how when kd joins stephs squad, no hit taken. This is the crux of my entire argument as far as impacting teammates

Im crediting curry for helping develop players, yes. Is it not possible for star players, especially point guard, to help develop players? You think McCaw would be the same player on the Cavs? Cmon

nastynice
12-06-2017, 05:47 AM
You are on drugs! Lebron on GS would undefeated if they really wanted to.

Lebron on GS would be a clearly noticeably worse team than current GS, lmao, wtf!!

nastynice
12-06-2017, 05:51 AM
I think he just admitted that the Cavs had no stars considering he said Curry on the Cavs make them worse. This guy just admitted that LeBron has no stars on his team. I never want to hear this guy complain about LeBron's superstar teammates again. And it's funny he says LeBron has the bigger impact on the scrubs.. So what he's telling us is that Curry can only make his teammates better if they are already good? Lmao!

Curry on the Cavs would make love better, and last year kyrie, now I guess soon to be IT. These guys would be better. But 3 and d, and these other guys, lebrons better at carrying these type a players. Whereas curry allows stars to shine next to him. It pretty simple what Iím saying, Iím not sure whatís confusing you

Scoots
12-06-2017, 12:21 PM
All I know is that when Draymond is injured or out, I don't want to hear anyone saying how much the Warriors miss Draymond. It seems when he is out, all Warriors fans do is say Draymond is the heart of the team and then now, all you guys do is disregard how much impact Draymond has on the Warriors.

Don't say "all Warriors fans" ... we are not all the same.

Curry's FTA are WAY up this year and I think it's because the Cavs approach of sending waves of players at him and having them grab and pull his arms when he's running off of screens and setting screens. Curry seems to be bleeding somewhere on his arms after every game this year.

On the subject, I think it's nearly impossible to say which has a greater impact since they are both incredible and incredibly different. LeBron is the greatest all-in-one player in NBA history. He can run the offense and the defense from any position while having a massive usage AND be all-time efficient while doing it. Curry is incredible at stretching defenses to their breaking point. They are totally different players.

I abstain from the question at hand.

nastynice
12-06-2017, 01:07 PM
Donít let the haters affect you scoots

If you wanna say curry in a landslide and anyone is stupid for thinking otherwise, then go for it!

haha! :)

Scoots
12-06-2017, 01:47 PM
Donít let the haters affect you scoots

If you wanna say curry in a landslide and anyone is stupid for thinking otherwise, then go for it!

haha! :)

Nah ... I can't wrap my brain around totaling their individual impacts on the game to compare them.

Jamiecballer
12-06-2017, 03:56 PM
Actually if lebron were on golden state it would be idiotic to play thru him. Heís not better than golden state at basketball. We won, not him

They could take a hit joining lebrons squad, thatís fine, same way kd would take a hit joining lebrons squad. But notice how when kd joins stephs squad, no hit taken. This is the crux of my entire argument as far as impacting teammates

Im crediting curry for helping develop players, yes. Is it not possible for star players, especially point guard, to help develop players? You think McCaw would be the same player on the Cavs? Cmon

with all due respect, Steve Kerr isn't paid to praise his own efforts. nonetheless a larger portion of credit should go to Kerr and the organizational culture than any one individual player.

and i think you are missing a pretty big piece to the whole KD thing. he was already playing next to the biggest ballhog in the game so go figure his numbers didn't take much of a tumble at all in Golden State. so if that's your crux it's standing on something pretty damn wobbly to begin with.

valade16
12-06-2017, 04:09 PM
Actually if lebron were on golden state it would be idiotic to play thru him. Heís not better than golden state at basketball. We won, not him

They could take a hit joining lebrons squad, thatís fine, same way kd would take a hit joining lebrons squad. But notice how when kd joins stephs squad, no hit taken. This is the crux of my entire argument as far as impacting teammates

Im crediting curry for helping develop players, yes. Is it not possible for star players, especially point guard, to help develop players? You think McCaw would be the same player on the Cavs? Cmon

Actually LeBron won too. Itís 2-1 GS. It should be 3-0 GS, that is a testament to LeBron.

nastynice
12-06-2017, 04:47 PM
with all due respect, Steve Kerr isn't paid to praise his own efforts. nonetheless a larger portion of credit should go to Kerr and the organizational culture than any one individual player.

and i think you are missing a pretty big piece to the whole KD thing. he was already playing next to the biggest ballhog in the game so go figure his numbers didn't take much of a tumble at all in Golden State. so if that's your crux it's standing on something pretty damn wobbly to begin with.

Yea, Iíve mentioned Curryís system and organization, I recognize that. Doesnít change the fact that curry is what allows the system to be what it is. But yes, curry has as good help as you could ask

Not wobbly at all. Plenty of people are saying this is the best theyíve seen Durant. No hit to his game, matter of fact, upped his defense and overall game.

Curry effect!! :nod:

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 04:57 PM
This nastynice guy thinks Warriors win if you add KD to the Cavs. Lmao, give me a break. You guys would get swept if KD was on the Cavs with LeBron. The fact you guys had to go and get KD despite being favorites is a testament of how good LeBron is. Sorry, baby boy.

mightybosstone
12-06-2017, 08:02 PM
Warriors fans, you guys are fighting hard for your guy, and I can respect that. But I think if you ask yourselves this question, you would even agree with the masses that Lebron is simply the more impactful player: "Who would you rather have in the postseason?"

Because let's assume that Steph's range as a shooter and impact on offense cancels out Lebron's jack-of-all-trades impact in every aspect of the game, and we call them a wash as regular season players. You could make a decent case for that, and while I disagree with it, I can understand the argument. HOWEVER, all of that is a moot point in the playoffs, where Lebron has proved time and time again to be the superior, more impactful basketball player. Curry has yet to win a Finals MVP despite two titles, and his postseason numbers are just totally inferior to his regular season production.

But Lebron is that rare player whose postseason production is somehow greater than his otherworldly regular season production. He has an extra gear that kind of separates guys like he and Jordan from other Hall of Famers. In a regular season game, I can see how Curry's ridiculous range might shock and awe, even drawing more attention than what Lebron does. But in the playoffs, Lebron is this insane juggernaut. He's a video game character with maxed out stats playing on Rookie mode. There simply isn't any comparison between the two.

And if you, as a Warriors fan, read all that and STILL don't think Lebron is more impactful, then there's really no point in arguing with you. Because you're so far gone as a homer of your team and your guy that you can no longer judge talent objectively.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 08:06 PM
Warriors fans, you guys are fighting hard for your guy, and I can respect that. But I think if you ask yourselves this question, you would even agree with the masses that Lebron is simply the more impactful player: "Who would you rather have in the postseason?"

Because let's assume that Steph's range as a shooter and impact on offense cancels out Lebron's jack-of-all-trades impact in every aspect of the game, and we call them a wash as regular season players. You could make a decent case for that, and while I disagree with it, I can understand the argument. HOWEVER, all of that is a moot point in the playoffs, where Lebron has proved time and time again to be the superior, more impactful basketball player. Curry has yet to win a Finals MVP despite two titles, and his postseason numbers are just totally inferior to his regular season production.

But Lebron is that rare player whose postseason production is somehow greater than his otherworldly regular season production. He has an extra gear that kind of separates guys like he and Jordan from other Hall of Famers. In a regular season game, I can see how Curry's ridiculous range might shock and awe, even drawing more attention than what Lebron does. But in the playoffs, Lebron is this insane juggernaut. He's a video game character with maxed out stats playing on Rookie mode. There simply isn't any comparison between the two.

And if you, as a Warriors fan, read all that and STILL don't think Lebron is more impactful, then there's really no point in arguing with you. Because you're so far gone as a homer of your team and your guy that you can no longer judge talent objectively.

Co-sign. And when you consider that the playoffs is when teams actually focus in on how to plan against you, it's even more surreal that LeBron is the one that comes out and still screws up their strategy. Curry, not so much. It's not even that Curry isn't impactful as much as he's just not on the pedigree of LeBron James. The ability to be able to collapse a defense, guard your best player (at stretches when needed), and having the experience of understanding moments of the game is something Curry really hasn't shown consistently in the playoffs.

tredigs
12-06-2017, 08:20 PM
Warriors fans, you guys are fighting hard for your guy, and I can respect that. But I think if you ask yourselves this question, you would even agree with the masses that Lebron is simply the more impactful player: "Who would you rather have in the postseason?"

Because let's assume that Steph's range as a shooter and impact on offense cancels out Lebron's jack-of-all-trades impact in every aspect of the game, and we call them a wash as regular season players. You could make a decent case for that, and while I disagree with it, I can understand the argument. HOWEVER, all of that is a moot point in the playoffs, where Lebron has proved time and time again to be the superior, more impactful basketball player. Curry has yet to win a Finals MVP despite two titles, and his postseason numbers are just totally inferior to his regular season production.

But Lebron is that rare player whose postseason production is somehow greater than his otherworldly regular season production. He has an extra gear that kind of separates guys like he and Jordan from other Hall of Famers. In a regular season game, I can see how Curry's ridiculous range might shock and awe, even drawing more attention than what Lebron does. But in the playoffs, Lebron is this insane juggernaut. He's a video game character with maxed out stats playing on Rookie mode. There simply isn't any comparison between the two.

And if you, as a Warriors fan, read all that and STILL don't think Lebron is more impactful, then there's really no point in arguing with you. Because you're so far gone as a homer of your team and your guy that you can no longer judge talent objectively.

You really did not say or prove anything here other than speak in broad strokes about your general perception of them. Color me unimpressed concerning the "if you can read all that and disagree then you are too big of a homer" nosense. You're going to need to bring a little more meat to the table for definitive statements like that my friend. That said, it's the exact same stance i have already said twice that I hold, so I'm not sure what we're discussing here exactly (or who you're talking to if not myself).

And I have still been shown zero reason to believe Bron is clearly more impactful in the regular season OR playoffs on the offensive end. For me it is the defense that he can maintain (for the shorter amount of time) that separates them. You're the one speaking like the superfan here, regardless of it being the majority opinion on this site of 15 participants or not.

mngopher35
12-06-2017, 08:30 PM
I think the difference in Gravity or whatever you wanna call it between these two is mostly lebron pulls help into the paint while curry pulls help/defenders out away from the hoop (opening up more opportunities for teammates to get easy bucks).

They both are the main focus of schemes and have most defenders watching them etc. In that sense I do think there is an argument to be made curry helps others a bit more (and you could argue it's the difference maker between them on offense at least)

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 08:32 PM
I think the difference in Gravity or whatever you wanna call it between these two is mostly lebron pulls help into the paint while curry pulls help/defenders out away from the hoop (opening up more opportunities for teammates to get easy bucks).

They both are the main focus of schemes and have most defenders watching them etc. In that sense I do think there is an argument to be made curry helps others a bit more (and you could argue it's the difference maker between them on offense at least)

That's the same argument you can make for Curry over Jordan and I am sorry, I don't see it.

mngopher35
12-06-2017, 08:41 PM
That's the same argument you can make for Curry over Jordan and I am sorry, I don't see it.

That was a different era too though with different rules and if I am saying this one is close and we think Jordan is better he would still possibly have an argument anyways. I personally need to see him clearly do it and especially in the playoffs. I think it is an argument still though. This is one of the biggest reasons I hate the KD move, we will never truly get to know to what level Curry can carry a team individually. Someone mentioned it earlier but he is rarely "unleashed" due to situation.

Like I said I have to personally see him taking over at that elite level in the playoffs above Lebron before I give him the nod here. I just think there are arguments to be made both ways heading into said playoffs (assuming things don't change much).

ewing
12-06-2017, 08:44 PM
I love how if you are not saying what treds is saying you are not saying anything


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FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 08:48 PM
That was a different era too though with different rules and if I am saying this one is close and we think Jordan is better he would still possibly have an argument anyways. I personally need to see him clearly do it and especially in the playoffs. I think it is an argument still though. This is one of the biggest reasons I hate the KD move, we will never truly get to know to what level Curry can carry a team individually. Someone mentioned it earlier but he is rarely "unleashed" due to situation.

Like I said I have to personally see him taking over at that elite level in the playoffs above Lebron before I give him the nod here. I just think there are arguments to be made both ways heading into said playoffs (assuming things don't change much).

The KD move, in retrospect, would have made the argument lean towards LeBron more. If no KD and Curry poops his pants again, what would the narrative be? It's easy for him to now play second-fiddle and get this imaginary impact on the floor but when he was the first option, his bad games would be more exposed.

tredigs
12-06-2017, 08:54 PM
I love how if you are not saying what treds is saying you are not saying anything


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Irony here is rich. Sorry, I just prefer to see an attempt at actual proof as a foundation other than one's own sweeping/broad opinion before making extremely definitive statements and calling others who disagree homers. Call me old school that way.

Allphakenny1
12-06-2017, 09:14 PM
I just do not get this "Steph under performs in the playoffs" thing. Unless we are just basing that off of the one finals where we know he was injured, he has been pretty special.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 09:16 PM
I just do not get this "Steph under performs in the playoffs" thing. Unless we are just basing that off of the one finals where we know he was injured, he has been pretty special.

No he hasn't. His advanced numbers take a huge hit, his T/O to AST ratio becomes borderline at 1, and he's had numerous games where LeBron would be absolutely crucified if he had the same type of performance. You're just looking at the numbers but the game paints a different type of events.

ewing
12-06-2017, 09:22 PM
Irony here is rich. Sorry, I just prefer to see an attempt at actual proof as a foundation other than one's own sweeping/broad opinion before making extremely definitive statements and calling others who disagree homers. Call me old school that way.

I didnít realize I was required to source everything I write on here. If you disagree with a point I make I might respond with what I think is proof


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mngopher35
12-06-2017, 09:23 PM
That was a different era too though with different rules and if I am saying this one is close and we think Jordan is better he would still possibly have an argument anyways. I personally need to see him clearly do it and especially in the playoffs. I think it is an argument still though. This is one of the biggest reasons I hate the KD move, we will never truly get to know to what level Curry can carry a team individually. Someone mentioned it earlier but he is rarely "unleashed" due to situation.

Like I said I have to personally see him taking over at that elite level in the playoffs above Lebron before I give him the nod here. I just think there are arguments to be made both ways heading into said playoffs (assuming things don't change much).

The KD move, in retrospect, would have made the argument lean towards LeBron more. If no KD and Curry poops his pants again, what would the narrative be? It's easy for him to now play second-fiddle and get this imaginary impact on the floor but when he was the first option, his bad games would be more exposed.

Yes it also keeps him from being exposed in a sense as well. It's same with kd I just think curry was the one potentially headed towards greatness.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-06-2017, 10:43 PM
I voted for Curry because I'm an idiot.

mightybosstone
12-06-2017, 10:58 PM
You really did not say or prove anything here other than speak in broad strokes about your general perception of them. Color me unimpressed concerning the "if you can read all that and disagree then you are too big of a homer" nosense. You're going to need to bring a little more meat to the table for definitive statements like that my friend. That said, it's the exact same stance i have already said twice that I hold, so I'm not sure what we're discussing here exactly (or who you're talking to if not myself).

And I have still been shown zero reason to believe Bron is clearly more impactful in the regular season OR playoffs on the offensive end. For me it is the defense that he can maintain (for the shorter amount of time) that separates them. You're the one speaking like the superfan here, regardless of it being the majority opinion on this site of 15 participants or not.

You know why I didn't spend an hour scouring through stats to prove you emphatically wrong? Because you're not a complete idiot, tre. Because if a third party were to look through our browser histories from the past month, we'd almost certainly have both looked up Lebron and Steph's Basketball Reference pages multiple times. And you and I both know what those numbers would show.

I don't need to pull up BR and spend an hour posting statistics that you and I already know will give Lebron a massive edge in basically every relevant postseason metric of any value whatsoever. I could give you historical data on how Lebron is top five in damn near every relevant postseason advanced metric in the history of the game or come up with percentages to show you how much Steph's production has declined from the regular season to the postseason in almost every single season with the exception of last year.

I didn't do that, because you and I already both know what those numbers will show. And it won't make a damn bit of difference in this argument, because you're not arguing logic or fact anymore. You're just clinging to whatever shred of an argument you have left for your guy, as thin as that thread might be.

I understand the whole "this is the internet, and I'm going to fight this argument as long as I can regardless of how right I actually think I am" game. I've done in hundreds of times on PSD. But I know that you know how wrong you are here, and it's pointless for me to waste hours of my life arguing with someone who already knows he's wrong, but is just unwilling to admit it.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 11:00 PM
You know why I didn't spend an hour scouring through stats to prove you emphatically wrong? Because you're not a complete idiot, tre. Because if a third party were to look through our browser histories from the past month, we'd almost certainly have both looked up Lebron and Steph's Basketball Reference pages multiple times. And you and I both know what those numbers would show.

I don't need to pull up BR and spend an hour posting statistics that you and I already know will give Lebron a massive edge in basically every relevant postseason metric of any value whatsoever. I could give you historical data on how Lebron is top five in damn near every relevant postseason advanced metric in the history of the game or come up with percentages to show you how much Steph's production has declined from the regular season to the postseason in almost every single season with the exception of last year.

I didn't do that, because you and I already both know what those numbers will show. And it won't make a damn bit of difference in this argument, because you're not arguing logic or fact anymore. You're just clinging to whatever shred of an argument you have left for your guy, as thin as that thread might be.

I understand the whole "this is the internet, and I'm going to fight this argument as long as I can regardless of how right I actually think I am" game. I've done in hundreds of times on PSD. But I know that you know how wrong you are here, and it's pointless for me to waste hours of my life arguing with someone who already knows he's wrong, but is just unwilling to admit it.

I co-sign again. LeBron has proven his impact and value. Steph is still a "what-if" hypothetical at times.

More-Than-Most
12-06-2017, 11:39 PM
so much for currys team huh? No dray/No curry/NO PROBLEM.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 11:40 PM
so much for currys team huh? No dray/No curry/NO PROBLEM.

Bro, they were guarding Curry from the bench. You didn't see?

ewing
12-06-2017, 11:43 PM
Bro, they were guarding Curry from the bench. You didn't see?

Gravity bro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tredigs
12-06-2017, 11:55 PM
so much for currys team huh? No dray/No curry/NO PROBLEM.

Lol, we're not the Sixers brother. Hell the Spurs don't have anything close to a KD on their roster and they're doing just fine without Kawhi against your average/sub-par teams. HCA in the West even.

tredigs
12-06-2017, 11:59 PM
You know why I didn't spend an hour scouring through stats to prove you emphatically wrong? Because you're not a complete idiot, tre. Because if a third party were to look through our browser histories from the past month, we'd almost certainly have both looked up Lebron and Steph's Basketball Reference pages multiple times. And you and I both know what those numbers would show.

I don't need to pull up BR and spend an hour posting statistics that you and I already know will give Lebron a massive edge in basically every relevant postseason metric of any value whatsoever. I could give you historical data on how Lebron is top five in damn near every relevant postseason advanced metric in the history of the game or come up with percentages to show you how much Steph's production has declined from the regular season to the postseason in almost every single season with the exception of last year.

I didn't do that, because you and I already both know what those numbers will show. And it won't make a damn bit of difference in this argument, because you're not arguing logic or fact anymore. You're just clinging to whatever shred of an argument you have left for your guy, as thin as that thread might be.

I understand the whole "this is the internet, and I'm going to fight this argument as long as I can regardless of how right I actually think I am" game. I've done in hundreds of times on PSD. But I know that you know how wrong you are here, and it's pointless for me to waste hours of my life arguing with someone who already knows he's wrong, but is just unwilling to admit it.

OK buddy. You're just arguing with yourself and not even reading my posts, apparently. I posted pure, unmitigated facts concerning offensive impact. And it is certainly no stretch to say Curry's is above all in the game. A LOT of VERY, VERY smart basketball minds agree with that. I don't think you realize that this is a legitimate discussion (specifically offensively as I said), and that's fine, I don't care to share a discussion or pour on any more stats/articles to those who clearly have no intention of debating here.

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 12:23 AM
OK buddy. You're just arguing with yourself and not even reading my posts, apparently. I posted pure, unmitigated facts concerning offensive impact. And it is certainly no stretch to say Curry's is above all in the game. A LOT of VERY, VERY smart basketball minds agree with that. I don't think you realize that this is a legitimate discussion (specifically offensively as I said), and that's fine, I don't care to share a discussion or pour on any more stats/articles to those who clearly have no intention of debating here.

You refuse to acknowledge or discuss the massive, indisputable edge Lebron has in the playoffs. Until you're willing to discuss this, I seriously doubt the legitimacy of this so-called "legitimate discussion" you seem to be having with anyone who questions your broken logic.

You'll note that my point had literally nothing to do with your plus-minus argument, your 538 article or your Steve Kerr quote. Why? (For starters, maybe your key source to back up your point shouldn't be the head coach of the guy you're making the case for? Just a thought.) Because my last argument is based on the postseason, to which you have literally zero leg to stand on. You can bring up and make a decent case for Curry as a regular season player, which I'm not disputing. Do I think he has the greater impact in the regular season? It's possible, but I'd still rather have Lebron.

But I kind of don't care which guy is better in the regular season. It's a moot point. Because nobody gives a damn which team had the best regular season. Would you rather be a member of the 73-win Warriors team from two years ago or a member of the 57-win Cavs team that upset them in the Finals? Lebron can coast to 55 wins, get a top 2 seed in the East every season and then step it up in the playoffs to tear through the opposition on his way to the Finals. Where's that second gear for Curry? The guy doesn't have it. And if he didn't play on such a stacked basketball team, the guy probably wouldn't have a ring in the first place. You give both Lebron and Curry a comparable level of NBA talent and ask both teams to play a seven-game series, and Lebron's team is almost certainly going to win that series.

You can agree to disagree with everyone all you want. That's your prerogative, and you're entitled. But you're in the minority in that opinion, and you 100 percent know it. If the best you can do is a lame plus-minus argument from last season, a single 538 article, one advanced statistic from this season, a quote from Curry's freaking head coach and completely ignoring the postseason altogether as if it doesn't even matter.... Well, then I think you see why nobody is taking you seriously.

FlashBolt
12-07-2017, 12:24 AM
You refuse to acknowledge or discuss the massive, indisputable edge Lebron has in the playoffs. Until you're willing to discuss this, I seriously doubt the legitimacy of this so-called "legitimate discussion" you seem to be having with anyone who questions your broken logic.

You'll note that my point had literally nothing to do with your plus-minus argument, your 538 article or your Steve Kerr quote. Why? (For starters, maybe your key source to back up your point shouldn't be the head coach of the guy you're making the case for? Just a thought.) Because my last argument is based on the postseason, to which you have literally zero leg to stand on. You can bring up and make a decent case for Curry as a regular season player, which I'm not disputing. Do I think he has the greater impact in the regular season? It's possible, but I'd still rather have Lebron.

But I kind of don't care which guy is better in the regular season. It's a moot point. Because nobody gives a damn which team had the best regular season. Would you rather be a member of the 73-win Warriors team from two years ago or a member of the 57-win Cavs team that upset them in the Finals? Lebron can coast to 55 wins, get a top 2 seed in the East every season and then step it up in the playoffs to tear through the opposition on his way to the Finals. Where's that second gear for Curry? The guy doesn't have it. And if he didn't play on such a stacked basketball team, the guy probably wouldn't have a ring in the first place. You give both Lebron and Curry a comparable level of NBA talent and ask both teams to play a seven-game series, and Lebron's team is almost certainly going to win that series.

You can agree to disagree with everyone all you want. That's your prerogative, and you're entitled. But you're in the minority in that opinion, and you 100 percent know it. If the best you can do is a lame plus-minus argument from last season, a single 538 article, one advanced statistic from this season, a quote from Curry's freaking head coach and completely ignoring the postseason altogether as if it doesn't even matter.... Well, then I think you see why nobody is taking you seriously.

I need a lawyer. I have a dispute with one of my suppliers. When are you free?

tredigs
12-07-2017, 12:57 AM
The ignorance of saying that I refuse to acknowledge something that I INITIALLY brought up and agreed overall 'Bron has been better (and continued on multiple times) is just fascinating. I'm talking to a ****ing wall. Again, I'm done debating with somebody who is exercising zero reading comprehension. You are a waste of time.

valade16
12-07-2017, 01:21 AM
Saying that Curry doesn't have the overall impact of LeBron but has a greater impact offensively seems like a moral victory if anything. The question is who has the greater impact and even the guys arguing for Curry also say LeBron.

As far as their stats, here they are regular season vs playoffs since 2015:

Steph Curry:
Regular: 28.1 PER | .645 TS% | .279 WS/48 | 9.9 BPM
Playoffs: 24.6 PER | .621 TS% | .218 WS/48 | 8.6 BPM

LeBron James:
Regular: 26.9 PER | .595 TS% | .221 WS/48 | 8.3 BPM
Playoffs: 28.4 PER | .565 TS% | .239 WS/48 | 11.8 BPM

Curry's numbers all get worse while LeBron's all get better (except TS%). It's pretty obvious Curry has not been as good in the playoffs as he has in the regular season the past 3 years. It's also obvious LeBron gets better in the playoffs and has the greater impact.

FlashBolt
12-07-2017, 01:34 AM
"I've been saying LeBron is better overall but I am still voting for Curry because I am a Warriors fan."

FlashBolt
12-07-2017, 01:35 AM
Saying that Curry doesn't have the overall impact of LeBron but has a greater impact offensively seems like a moral victory if anything. The question is who has the greater impact and even the guys arguing for Curry also say LeBron.

As far as their stats, here they are regular season vs playoffs since 2015:

Steph Curry:
Regular: 28.1 PER | .645 TS% | .279 WS/48 | 9.9 BPM
Playoffs: 24.6 PER | .621 TS% | .218 WS/48 | 8.6 BPM

LeBron James:
Regular: 26.9 PER | .595 TS% | .221 WS/48 | 8.3 BPM
Playoffs: 28.4 PER | .565 TS% | .239 WS/48 | 11.8 BPM

Curry's numbers all get worse while LeBron's all get better (except TS%). It's pretty obvious Curry has not been as good in the playoffs as he has in the regular season the past 3 years. It's also obvious LeBron gets better in the playoffs and has the greater impact.

And we can stretch that back further but it's not even worth discussing: LeBron has been destroying it before Curry even entered into NBA top ten territory.

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 02:07 AM
The ignorance of saying that I refuse to acknowledge something that I INITIALLY brought up and agreed overall 'Bron has been better (and continued on multiple times) is just fascinating. I'm talking to a ****ing wall. Again, I'm done debating with somebody who is exercising zero reading comprehension. You are a waste of time.
Then I don't remotely understand your point. If you think Lebron is better, why vote for Curry? The logic is completely contradictory. Also, it's not really a matter of reading comprehension. I made a point. You countered my point. And then I countered your point based on the last few pages worth of posts. If you want someone to comprehend what you're trying to say, maybe you should be a little more clear with what point you're trying to make. I shouldn't have to read 12 pages worth of posts to understand your argument.

FlashBolt
12-07-2017, 02:12 AM
Then I don't remotely understand your point. If you think Lebron is better, why vote for Curry? The logic is completely contradictory. Also, it's not really a matter of reading comprehension. I made a point. You countered my point. And then I countered your point based on the last few pages worth of posts. If you want someone to comprehend what you're trying to say, maybe you should be a little more clear with what point you're trying to make. I shouldn't have to read 12 pages worth of posts to understand your argument.

Either you caught him in the act of him refusing to add any insight because he knows it is one he can't argue or he is just voting for Curry because he is a liar. If he knew LeBron was better overall, he should have voted for LeBron. There is no "Curry is better offensively so I am voting for Curry." Impact isn't measured strictly in terms of offense or else we would have long declared Dirk as a greater PF than Duncan. And taking playoffs into consideration (which again, is the only reason LeBron even wakes up for NBA games these days), it's not even worthy of debate. As you already pointed out, all things being equal, LeBron will always beat Curry.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 05:03 AM
This nastynice guy thinks Warriors win if you add KD to the Cavs. Lmao, give me a break. You guys would get swept if KD was on the Cavs with LeBron. The fact you guys had to go and get KD despite being favorites is a testament of how good LeBron is. Sorry, baby boy.

Warriors with kd vs Cavs with kd, yea Iím taking warriors.

Imagine how deadly kd would be parked in the corner waiting to see if lebron kicks it out to him, lol

nastynice
12-07-2017, 05:17 AM
Warriors fans, you guys are fighting hard for your guy, and I can respect that. But I think if you ask yourselves this question, you would even agree with the masses that Lebron is simply the more impactful player: "Who would you rather have in the postseason?"




Curry easily. Eaaasily

In golden state that is.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 05:19 AM
Co-sign. And when you consider that the playoffs is when teams actually focus in on how to plan against you, it's even more surreal that LeBron is the one that comes out and still screws up their strategy. Curry, not so much. It's not even that Curry isn't impactful as much as he's just not on the pedigree of LeBron James. The ability to be able to collapse a defense, guard your best player (at stretches when needed), and having the experience of understanding moments of the game is something Curry really hasn't shown consistently in the playoffs.

Heís still growing. Heís where lebron was when he first won in Miami. Lebron went through it, curry and kd are too.

Think about how far past that lebron is

ewing
12-07-2017, 06:08 AM
The ignorance of saying that I refuse to acknowledge something that I INITIALLY brought up and agreed overall 'Bron has been better (and continued on multiple times) is just fascinating. I'm talking to a ****ing wall. Again, I'm done debating with somebody who is exercising zero reading comprehension. You are a waste of time.

Youíre not saying anything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 09:52 AM
Curry easily. Eaaasily

In golden state that is.

I clearly wasn't talking about literally putting Lebron on Golden State's roster. Forget the rest of this hypothetical team's roster for a second and just measure the postseason prowess of the two guys against one another. Who would you rather have in the playoffs: Curry or Lebron?

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 09:57 AM
Heís still growing. Heís where lebron was when he first won in Miami. Lebron went through it, curry and kd are too.

Think about how far past that lebron is
But age and experience isn't part of the equation. It's a pretty simple question: Who is more impactful on the court today? Warriors fans keep wanting to argue semantics and find little slivers of arguments. But I'd love to see someone just admit what they already know: that the answer is unequivocally Lebron.

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 10:02 AM
And for the record, I would not try to argue that Harden was more impactful or a better player than Lebron. Offensively in the regular season, I think Harden is the best player in the league. And I do think he should be the clear early season MVP front runner.

But the second the playoffs start, that argument completely falls apart, which is why I 100 percent believe Lebron to be the better player. It's unfortunate that Warrior fans can't admit the same.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 01:16 PM
I clearly wasn't talking about literally putting Lebron on Golden State's roster. Forget the rest of this hypothetical team's roster for a second and just measure the postseason prowess of the two guys against one another. Who would you rather have in the playoffs: Curry or Lebron?

Curry is more valuable on a stacked team. I think Iíd roll the dice and chase the higher potential, so Iíd go curry.

But if both on scrub teams, then lebron. If got a star or two to add, then curry.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 01:19 PM
But age and experience isn't part of the equation. It's a pretty simple question: Who is more impactful on the court today? Warriors fans keep wanting to argue semantics and find little slivers of arguments. But I'd love to see someone just admit what they already know: that the answer is unequivocally Lebron.

It COULD be lebron. As mentioned earlier, it depends on what you mean by impact. Curry gives you a more dangerous 5. Lebron is the more dangerous 1

I just mentioned all the things you pointed out, they are all part of the growing process.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 01:23 PM
And for the record, I would not try to argue that Harden was more impactful or a better player than Lebron. Offensively in the regular season, I think Harden is the best player in the league. And I do think he should be the clear early season MVP front runner.

But the second the playoffs start, that argument completely falls apart, which is why I 100 percent believe Lebron to be the better player. It's unfortunate that Warrior fans can't admit the same.

Cuz hardens game is the same as lebron, you guys stand around while I drive, just not as good as lebron. Itís just not possible to rank him better than someone that does everything better. Curry legit brings way more to the table, meaning each has their own strengths over the other

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 02:10 PM
Curry is more valuable on a stacked team. I think Iíd roll the dice and chase the higher potential, so Iíd go curry.

But if both on scrub teams, then lebron. If got a star or two to add, then curry.
Again, you're playing semantics. It's not about "who would be better for X, Y or Z" circumstances. It's "who has the greater impact on the floor, period."


It COULD be lebron. As mentioned earlier, it depends on what you mean by impact. Curry gives you a more dangerous 5. Lebron is the more dangerous 1

I just mentioned all the things you pointed out, they are all part of the growing process.
See above comment.


Cuz hardens game is the same as lebron, you guys stand around while I drive, just not as good as lebron. Itís just not possible to rank him better than someone that does everything better. Curry legit brings way more to the table, meaning each has their own strengths over the other
Wow, you clearly don't watch many Rockets games. I guess we're just going to completely overlook Harden's ridiculous skill as a passer and pick and roll creator? Or that he's the superior perimeter shooter? And what about ball-handling? If you just throw all of those key offensive skills out the window, then sure, Lebron is superior at everything.

nastynice
12-07-2017, 10:18 PM
Again, you're playing semantics. It's not about "who would be getter for X, Y or Z" circumstances. It's "who has the greater impact on the floor, period."


See above comment.


Wow, you clearly don't watch many Rockets games. I guess we're just going to completely overlook Harden's ridiculous skill as a passer and pick and roll creator? Or that he's the superior perimeter shooter? And what about ball-handling? If you just throw all of those key offensive skills out the window, then sure, Lebron is superior at everything.

Haha, bro I understand the quoted sentence, thatís what Iím saying, what do you mean by impact?

As the league stands right now, as currently constructed, curry has a strong argument for being the most impactful player in the league. He allows a situation for a potential goat team to thrive. How much bigger does impact get?

Lebron basically is better at everything. Iíll give harden handles and first step. Clearly not enough to tilt the scale his way tho

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 01:01 AM
"Stand around and drive." This guy seriously hasn't watched any other team play besides the Warriors. Amazing he drives home this narrative. If that's all those guys do, according to you, then your credibility on any subject regarding those two should be thrown away.

rimgrazers
12-08-2017, 04:40 AM
Interesting since they both warp defenses, but I'd have to say curry, considering he's kinda revolutionized basketball

nastynice
12-08-2017, 05:36 AM
"Stand around and drive." This guy seriously hasn't watched any other team play besides the Warriors. Amazing he drives home this narrative. If that's all those guys do, according to you, then your credibility on any subject regarding those two should be thrown away.

So they donít seek out a matchup, iso, then create? Thatís not the crux of their game? Then what is?

Jamiecballer
12-08-2017, 08:10 AM
Curry is more valuable on a stacked team. I think Iíd roll the dice and chase the higher potential, so Iíd go curry.

But if both on scrub teams, then lebron. If got a star or two to add, then curry.

^ maybe one day you will have a chance to validate this theoretical statement of yours

mightybosstone
12-08-2017, 10:09 AM
"Stand around and drive." This guy seriously hasn't watched any other team play besides the Warriors. Amazing he drives home this narrative. If that's all those guys do, according to you, then your credibility on any subject regarding those two should be thrown away.

Yeah, "you guys stand around while I drive" might be the most oversimplified explanation of their games I've ever heard. It's such a back-handed way to insult them and how hard it is to actually get to the basket whenever they want to. There's a reason why they're the two best players in the league at getting to the rim and why they're both always top five in scoring and near the top of the league in scoring efficiency.

That's like me saying that all Curry does is run around the floor to get open while everyone else sets him screens so he can chuck up the first 30-footer he can get his hands on. To an uneducated eye who doesn't watch everything else that Curry does or the overall impact he has, that's essentially his game in a half-court set.

mightybosstone
12-08-2017, 10:29 AM
Curry is more valuable on a stacked team. I think Iíd roll the dice and chase the higher potential, so Iíd go curry.

But if both on scrub teams, then lebron. If got a star or two to add, then curry.
Another thing about this post that I just realized this morning is that it's wildly inaccurate and subjective. Since Lebron first came to Miami, he's essentially played on "stacked teams." The guy played with two Hall of Famers in Miami in addition to a rotating cast of elite role players. And in Cleveland, he played with Kyrieówho has become a top 10-15 player in the leagueóand Loveóa perennial top 20-30 guyóamong a rotating cast of elite role players.

Your whole take is just wildly subjective. What is defined as "stacked?" If by stacked, you mean a team that has four top 20 players who are all future Hall of Famersóthen isn't that kind of a freakishly unique situation? Like in the history of the NBA, has their ever been a roster as "stacked" as this Warriors team?

If that's what you mean, then what you're basically saying is: "I'd much rather have Curry for this Warriors team. But for literally every other team in the NBA's history over the last nearly 70 years, I'd much rather have Lebron."


So they donít seek out a matchup, iso, then create? Thatís not the crux of their game? Then what is?
I'm not trying to be condescending when I say this, but do you actually watch these guys play basketball? Harden is probably one of the five greatest pick and roll creators in the history of the league. That probably sounds like hyperbole, but seriously watch the man run the pick and roll with Capela. He's a freaking wizard with the basketball. Also, actually watch him drive to the rim. His herky, jerky, Euro-step movements to the lane are remarkable, and his ball-handling skills are second to none. And that's not even bringing up his step-back 3-pointer, which is easily among the best in the game.

As for Lebron, simplifying his offensive skill as probably the second greatest player in the history of the game to "everyone else just stands around while he drives" is legitimately disrespectful. His basketball IQ is insane, and he's as much the general of his offense on the floor as any player I've ever seen in the league. And he can just get points in a zillion different ways. He can take any player off the dribble for two, penetrate and find open shooters outside, or put his back to the basket and score with half a dozen moves. On top of that, he's really improved that perimeter shot, so you can't even just play the "force Lebron to shoot a 23-footer" game anymore.

Seriously man, but your oversimplification of these elite basketball players and their remarkable skills is just insulting. Recognize and respect the skill that goes into what those guys do. And if you can't, then you clearly aren't watching hard enough or are too dense to understand what you're watching.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 02:12 PM
So they donít seek out a matchup, iso, then create? Thatís not the crux of their game? Then what is?

No, that's not they all do.

1) Both players have been two of the greatest all around NBA players (outside of Harden's defense) we've ever seen. Statistically, they do everything.
2) What's wrong with attacking the basket and dishing out? It's a great play that works. They don't need to do it but it's a viable offensive option more often than not. That's a testament that BOTH of these guys are able to collapse a defense and get shooters open. NOT many NBA players can do that and I dare you to find a player(s) BETTER than those two at doing that.
3) You make it seem as if LeBron and Harden just get the ball, tell their guys openly, "stand there." Maybe that's what you see but what I see is two great players who are creating plays for their team knowing that their teammates have faith that these two guys will make the right play. Let me ask you, what do you think Curry does that is different? Does he not just run around, ask for semi-illegal picks to get open, and then make the extra pass or pull up from three? What's the difference in what Curry does in getting shooters open from LeBron+Harden? LeBron+Harden are better passers than Curry so that's something they can take advantage of in getting open players their shot.
4) Funny you mention matchup ISO to take advantage of the defender.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWjigSJP0RE

Much like the Cavs did by switching Klay away from Kyrie.

5) LeBron and Harden are two amazing players. We will never see a guy like LeBron again and Harden is making a legitimate case of possibly being the 3rd greatest SG ever. These guys dominate regardless of how the system is being played. With that being said, their game has adjusted to the three point explosion. You are absolutely in denial if you don't think these two could change their style of play. If it was THAT easy to drive and shoot, teams would have ZERO problem defending that. But guess what? They're both leading their teams to the top four NBA standings. They are winning games and dominating. Both of them have made the MVP race a two-man contention. Meanwhile, all you've ever said to defend Curry's impact is that he can create a three point shooting barrier that is completely valid but also, overrated by you guys. Not the fact that LeBron has dominated the league in the reg/post to levels Curry would NEVER be able to do.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2017, 02:42 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/v7hzk.jpg

R. Johnson#3
12-08-2017, 03:53 PM
Curry changed the way the game is played. With that being said, if Steph's shot is off it's possible to stop him. If Lebron's shot is off he will just go to the basket and literally nobody can deny him from doing that. Rebounding isn't worth mentioning. Both are good playmakers but I give Lebron the advantage there. Defence isn't worth mentioning either.

By the time Lebron is done he'll most likely be top 3 all time. No player in the league is even close to having the same impact on a team that Lebron does.

nastynice
12-09-2017, 02:21 AM
Another thing about this post that I just realized this morning is that it's wildly inaccurate and subjective. Since Lebron first came to Miami, he's essentially played on "stacked teams." The guy played with two Hall of Famers in Miami in addition to a rotating cast of elite role players. And in Cleveland, he played with Kyrieówho has become a top 10-15 player in the leagueóand Loveóa perennial top 20-30 guyóamong a rotating cast of elite role players.

Your whole take is just wildly subjective. What is defined as "stacked?" If by stacked, you mean a team that has four top 20 players who are all future Hall of Famersóthen isn't that kind of a freakishly unique situation? Like in the history of the NBA, has their ever been a roster as "stacked" as this Warriors team?

If that's what you mean, then what you're basically saying is: "I'd much rather have Curry for this Warriors team. But for literally every other team in the NBA's history over the last nearly 70 years, I'd much rather have Lebron."


I'm not trying to be condescending when I say this, but do you actually watch these guys play basketball? Harden is probably one of the five greatest pick and roll creators in the history of the league. That probably sounds like hyperbole, but seriously watch the man run the pick and roll with Capela. He's a freaking wizard with the basketball. Also, actually watch him drive to the rim. His herky, jerky, Euro-step movements to the lane are remarkable, and his ball-handling skills are second to none. And that's not even bringing up his step-back 3-pointer, which is easily among the best in the game.

As for Lebron, simplifying his offensive skill as probably the second greatest player in the history of the game to "everyone else just stands around while he drives" is legitimately disrespectful. His basketball IQ is insane, and he's as much the general of his offense on the floor as any player I've ever seen in the league. And he can just get points in a zillion different ways. He can take any player off the dribble for two, penetrate and find open shooters outside, or put his back to the basket and score with half a dozen moves. On top of that, he's really improved that perimeter shot, so you can't even just play the "force Lebron to shoot a 23-footer" game anymore.

Seriously man, but your oversimplification of these elite basketball players and their remarkable skills is just insulting. Recognize and respect the skill that goes into what those guys do. And if you can't, then you clearly aren't watching hard enough or are too dense to understand what you're watching.

Yea, lebrons been on stacked teams, but their sum is less than parts, curry has opposite effect. He gives you a higher team potential imo

Yes I watch, Iíve watched a good amount of Harden, heís nasty as **** and yes he does some things better, depending on how detailed we get yes, a better euro, a quicker first step, other things too, finding that spot at the elbow and hitting that step back jumper.

But they are very similar in terms of how they attack. Whereas gs, and Boston, and minny and philly are diff

nastynice
12-09-2017, 04:44 AM
2) What's wrong with attacking the basket and dishing out?

Thereís nothing wrong with it. Iím just taking shots while making the point that curry doesnít do this, but rather plays in a way that allows others to get in rhythm and dominate. This is an advantage unique to him over these guys

tredigs
12-09-2017, 12:35 PM
Thereís nothing wrong with it. Iím just taking shots while making the point that curry doesnít do this, but rather plays in a way that allows others to get in rhythm and dominate. This is an advantage unique to him over these guys

It's a valid metagame point that will go underappreciated here. Goes beyond the actual gameplay and into free agency, etc. You're never going to get comments like those from Bosh's warnings to Love when going to Cleveland (which turned out 100% on point), or a star player demanding a trade, etc. Obviously these are sidepoints to this convo, but hugely important in the grand scheme of things.

nastynice
12-11-2017, 06:59 PM
Its just talking heads, but this is exactly what I'm saying about steph. One player that legitimately puts pressure on all 5 defenders, with or without the ball, from 35 feet in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttB7vQ099HM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gh8kGzKxz4

They're just talking about it in context of his injury and its effect on the team, but its the same idea that I'm translating over to this discussion

tredigs
12-11-2017, 07:06 PM
Its just talking heads, but this is exactly what I'm saying about steph. One player that legitimately puts pressure on all 5 defenders, with or without the ball, from 35 feet in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttB7vQ099HM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gh8kGzKxz4

They're just talking about it in context of his injury and its effect on the team, but its the same idea that I'm translating over to this discussion

It's the greatest "passive" impact in NBA history, which is why even if he's having a poor shooting night (can forget his underrated playmaking, rebounding and team defense), he still has a massive impact on the floor for his teammates. It's why the team is always drastically better when he is on the floor (especially when his shooting is on, which is basically always). Guys like 'Bron, Giannis, Westbrook, etc don't have anything near the passive impact. It also helps a lot that Curry is constantly moving without the ball, causing chaos all over.

Granted, the Warriors have enough talent and are so in tune now that they can beat most teams with or without him.

valade16
12-11-2017, 07:24 PM
It's the greatest "passive" impact in NBA history, which is why even if he's having a poor shooting night (can forget his underrated playmaking, rebounding and team defense), he still has a massive impact on the floor for his teammates. It's why the team is always drastically better when he is on the floor (especially when his shooting is on, which is basically always). Guys like 'Bron, Giannis, Westbrook, etc don't have anything near the passive impact. It also helps a lot that Curry is constantly moving without the ball, causing chaos all over.

Granted, the Warriors have enough talent and are so in tune now that they can beat most teams with or without him.

Yeah, Curry simply being on the floor has more of an impact than anyone except possibly peak Shaq (and even then, I think Curry has the slight edge), but when they start doing things, LeBron and MJ and maybe some others have more of an impact in totality (i.e. both sides of the ball).

tredigs
12-11-2017, 07:29 PM
Yeah, Curry simply being on the floor has more of an impact than anyone except possibly peak Shaq (and even then, I think Curry has the slight edge), but when they start doing things, LeBron and MJ and maybe some others have more of an impact in totality (i.e. both sides of the ball).

I'd agree. And in clutch-type situations when the game tends to devolve/slow down and go more ISO, there are a number of guys (including those two), who have more impact than him (on both ends). That said, he's still fantastic overall in 4th quarters + OT and has ended more than a handful of playoff games with his shot.

valade16
12-11-2017, 07:56 PM
I'd agree. And in clutch-type situations when the game tends to devolve/slow down and go more ISO, there are a number of guys (including those two), who have more impact than him (on both ends). That said, he's still fantastic overall in 4th quarters + OT and has ended more than a handful of playoff games with his shot.

To me at least, his peak is on my Mount Rushmore of players I've seen play (MJ, Shaq, Bron, Curry).

lol, please
12-12-2017, 01:03 AM
To me at least, his peak is on my Mount Rushmore of players I've seen play (MJ, Shaq, Bron, Curry).Mine would be MJ, Shaq, Bird, Curry, but I agree.

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lol, please
12-12-2017, 01:03 AM
It's the greatest "passive" impact in NBA history, which is why even if he's having a poor shooting night (can forget his underrated playmaking, rebounding and team defense), he still has a massive impact on the floor for his teammates. It's why the team is always drastically better when he is on the floor (especially when his shooting is on, which is basically always). Guys like 'Bron, Giannis, Westbrook, etc don't have anything near the passive impact. It also helps a lot that Curry is constantly moving without the ball, causing chaos all over.

Granted, the Warriors have enough talent and are so in tune now that they can beat most teams with or without him.Agree 100%

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valade16
12-12-2017, 03:26 AM
Mine would be MJ, Shaq, Bird, Curry, but I agree

I am too young to have seen Bird play except in hindisght otherwise I suspect him and Magic would have strong cases for consideration.

I will say Bird is by FAR my favorite player to watch highlights of. He is simply phenomenal.

More-Than-Most
12-12-2017, 03:48 AM
no curry again..... NO PROBLEM

TylerSL
12-12-2017, 07:40 AM
lol, please.

tredigs
12-12-2017, 10:55 PM
no curry again..... NO PROBLEM

You realize they went on a 14-0 run without KD last year, as well as won a title and had a 73 win season? We get it MTM, they're better than most teams with or without 1 or 2 of their All Stars on any given day. Your shtick here is dumb. There's nothing GOAT level about them without Curry.

FlashBolt
12-12-2017, 11:03 PM
If there was any doubt about KD:

33/10/8/3 blocks per game on 50% shooting. Total stud of a player. Wish we saw this KD every game and not the one who looks like he's holding his best games inside until he has to unleash.

Klay Thompson also playing a bit better. This team honestly doesn't need Curry to go deep into the playoffs but Curry does turn them to a behemoth of a team.

More-Than-Most
12-12-2017, 11:10 PM
You realize they went on a 14-0 run without KD last year, as well as won a title and had a 73 win season? We get it MTM, they're better than most teams with or without 1 or 2 of their All Stars on any given day. Your shtick here is dumb. There's nothing GOAT level about them without Curry.

you should not speak of someones shtick when you are on a mission to try and prove curry as the best in the world.. a mission you solo walk might I add... You have gone on for weeks about how valuable/crucial etc etc etc curry is and now that he is gone the warriors have not missed a beat.

Are they title contenders without him? still yes Much like they were without Durant... Face it... Curry is great but he has a loaded team around him that makes it impossible to play for his weaknesses like the cavs did in the finals thus why he cried and begged durant to come.

FlashBolt
12-12-2017, 11:14 PM
you should not speak of someones shtick when you are on a mission to try and prove curry as the best in the world.. a mission you solo walk might I add... You have gone on for weeks about how valuable/crucial etc etc etc curry is and now that he is gone the warriors have not missed a beat.

He's obviously talking about how Curry can turn the Warriors from great to historically great. It's like if LeBron was on the Warriors instead of Curry. If LeBron sits, Warriors are still great. If LeBron plays, they are on another level capable of beating any NBA team that we've seen in the past.

tredigs
12-12-2017, 11:18 PM
you should not speak of someones shtick when you are on a mission to try and prove curry as the best in the world.. a mission you solo walk might I add... You have gone on for weeks about how valuable/crucial etc etc etc curry is and now that he is gone the warriors have not missed a beat.

You misinterpreting and misquoting me aside (I said Curry has the most offensive impact for a team, and that 'Bron has the most playoff level impact overall... reg season it's been a debate the past half decade. And frankly in this current season it's Harden who has the most impact period), I don't think you understand how to evaluate a teams peak or their general talent level... at all. There is a big difference between winning games and what your peak is, I assure you. The Warriors are a LOT better than your average team. They can lose players and be fine in the reg season. That's how great teams work. It's why the Spurs (who have nowhere near the talent of GS) can lose a top 5 player in the NBA and still go on business as usual from a W/L standpoint. But their ceiling is world's apart with or without Kawhi.

More-Than-Most
12-12-2017, 11:26 PM
He's obviously talking about how Curry can turn the Warriors from great to historically great. It's like if LeBron was on the Warriors instead of Curry. If LeBron sits, Warriors are still great. If LeBron plays, they are on another level capable of beating any NBA team that we've seen in the past.

i dont disagree with this nor have I ever... He and anyone arguing curry over Lebron or Durant though is another story.

FlashBolt
12-12-2017, 11:29 PM
i dont disagree with this nor have I ever... He and anyone arguing curry over Lebron or Durant though is another story.

Curry definitely has a bigger impact than KD. It might not lead to being a better individual player but what Curry can do just by being on the court is special. Just not LeBron-special. LeBron being vastly superior to Curry in rebounding, passing, defense, and also being unstoppable at attacking the rim should warrant a higher impact value than Curry's superhuman shooting. KD isn't really that much better than Curry at a few of these areas and definitely not enough to supercede his shooting ability.

nastynice
12-12-2017, 11:59 PM
Curry definitely has a bigger impact than KD. It might not lead to being a better individual player but what Curry can do just by being on the court is special. Just not LeBron-special. LeBron being vastly superior to Curry in rebounding, passing, defense, and also being unstoppable at attacking the rim should warrant a higher impact value than Curry's superhuman shooting. KD isn't really that much better than Curry at a few of these areas and definitely not enough to supercede his shooting ability.

Well canít you say the same about Durant over curry, minus the passing? So shouldnít kd have the bigger impact?

nastynice
12-13-2017, 12:09 AM
He's obviously talking about how Curry can turn the Warriors from great to historically great. It's like if LeBron was on the Warriors instead of Curry. If LeBron sits, Warriors are still great. If LeBron plays, they are on another level capable of beating any NBA team that we've seen in the past.

I hope youíre not suggesting that replacing curry with lebron makes the warriors a better team. Klay doesnít hit hot streaks by sitting there and waiting to see if his small forward has no better option than dishing it last second. If you replace curry with lebron thereís no doubt all these warriors all of a sudden become a bunch of scrubs cuz Iggy and west are too old, and Livingston never recovered from his knee, and Draymond is a tweener, swaggy p is a chucker, and javale is shaqtin king, and mccaw and bell are babies. Whereas with curry heís baby Draymond. See the diff?

Cmon man, deep down you gotta know thatís whats up.

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 12:19 AM
Well canít you say the same about Durant over curry, minus the passing? So shouldnít kd have the bigger impact?

No, because Durant's defense isn't impressive to me at all and LeBron is vastly superior to Curry in all those areas outside of shooting. LeBron's ability to pass the ball at any area of the court while also getting his own shot is something KD doesn't have the advantage of doing.


I hope youíre not suggesting that replacing curry with lebron makes the warriors a better team. Klay doesnít hit hot streaks by sitting there and waiting to see if his small forward has no better option than dishing it last second. If you replace curry with lebron thereís no doubt all these warriors all of a sudden become a bunch of scrubs cuz Iggy and west are too old, and Livingston never recovered from his knee, and Draymond is a tweener, swaggy p is a chucker, and javale is shaqtin king, and mccaw and bell are babies. Whereas with curry heís baby Draymond. See the diff?

Cmon man, deep down you gotta know thatís whats up.

I think you need to find out where I said that and then make some sense. And I'm not sure why you're so quick to assume LeBron wouldn't make them better. Let's talk about the playoffs for a bit where LeBron is ultimately measured these days. Which season of Curry's playoffs comes close to being as good as LeBron's peak seasons? Which NBA Finals performance comes close to LeBron's peak? None. In the playoffs, LeBron+KD+Klay+Draymond+Iggy? Stop it. You and I both know that NO team wants to see THAT team in the playoffs. Curry is prone to making errors and underperforming in the playoffs. Literally every statistic in the world would point to that. Does LeBron make the Warriors better for the reg season? Nope, not in terms of fit. But his proven track record is enough evidence to show that in the playoffs, he is a far better option than Curry on any system/team. You try and make absolute statements with zero factual evidence and you aren't convincing anyone outside the Warriors fanbase. I get it, you're a Warriors fan. Too bad I'm an NBA fan and I, along with the majority of NBA fans, see that Curry is not as impactful as Lebron. At some point, you will wake up and see that LeBron has embarrassed Curry two NBA Finals in a row and would have been three if KD hadn't turned it imbalanced.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 12:37 AM
No, because Durant's defense isn't impressive to me at all and LeBron is vastly superior to Curry in all those areas outside of shooting. LeBron's ability to pass the ball at any area of the court while also getting his own shot is something KD doesn't have the advantage of doing.



I think you need to find out where I said that and then make some sense. And I'm not sure why you're so quick to assume LeBron wouldn't make them better. Let's talk about the playoffs for a bit where LeBron is ultimately measured these days. Which season of Curry's playoffs comes close to being as good as LeBron's peak seasons? Which NBA Finals performance comes close to LeBron's peak? None. In the playoffs, LeBron+KD+Klay+Draymond+Iggy? Stop it. You and I both know that NO team wants to see THAT team in the playoffs. Curry is prone to making errors and underperforming in the playoffs. Literally every statistic in the world would point to that. Does LeBron make the Warriors better for the reg season? Nope, not in terms of fit. But his proven track record is enough evidence to show that in the playoffs, he is a far better option than Curry on any system/team. You try and make absolute statements with zero factual evidence and you aren't convincing anyone outside the Warriors fanbase. I get it, you're a Warriors fan. Too bad I'm an NBA fan and I, along with the majority of NBA fans, see that Curry is not as impactful as Lebron. At some point, you will wake up and see that LeBron has embarrassed Curry two NBA Finals in a row and would have been three if KD hadn't turned it imbalanced.

Haha, ur the one getting all emo with anyone that disagrees with you. Youíre a dubs hater, and thatís fine, but donít be putting your **** on me. Iím just telling you what curry brings to the table that lebron doesnít, and how big an effect it has. Youíre the one getting emotionally invested, not me

Sure, if being a stat monster is the measure of impact, then itís lebron. And harden, and Westbrook. Curry certainly ainít in the top 2 if thatís the parameter.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 12:39 AM
No, because Durant's defense isn't impressive to me at all and LeBron is vastly superior to Curry in all those areas outside of shooting. LeBron's ability to pass the ball at any area of the court while also getting his own shot is something KD doesn't have the advantage of doing.



.

Durantís defense is better than lebrons, but youíre telling me that lebrons defense impresses you while Durantís doesnít?

More-Than-Most
12-13-2017, 12:42 AM
Durantís defense is better than lebrons, but youíre telling me that lebrons defense impresses you while Durantís doesnít?

not hard to be great defensively when you have 2 all world defenders next to you in klay/green.

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 12:50 AM
Haha, ur the one getting all emo with anyone that disagrees with you. Youíre a dubs hater, and thatís fine, but donít be putting your **** on me. Iím just telling you what curry brings to the table that lebron doesnít, and how big an effect it has. Youíre the one getting emotionally invested, not me

Sure, if being a stat monster is the measure of impact, then itís lebron. And harden, and Westbrook. Curry certainly ainít in the top 2 if thatís the parameter.

1) Who's anyone? You and? How am I a Dubs hater? Isn't it possible you're just an obsessed Dubs fan who lacks objectivity? Don't try and twist this into me being a hater and not you being a homer.

2) What does stats even have to do with this? I literally never mentioned stats at all. Sounds like you're having a rough day. Come up with a valid argument. Everything from you has been opinion based and that is why you can't even convince a 2 year old baby.

3) Yeah, I'm totally emotionally invested. Not the guy who is a known homer.

4) Durant's defense isn't better. I watched him at OKC and he's doing the same things. It's perceived as better because he's getting results due to his team being elite defenders but he doesn't lock down players the way Bron can. Like I said, you come across as a homer who only watches Warriors games and then hops onto threads pretending you know a certain team or player when the most you know about them is how tall they are. Just stop. better yet, I will stop responding because you haven't made it worthwhile.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 01:32 AM
1) Who's anyone? You and? How am I a Dubs hater? Isn't it possible you're just an obsessed Dubs fan who lacks objectivity? Don't try and twist this into me being a hater and not you being a homer.

2) What does stats even have to do with this? I literally never mentioned stats at all. Sounds like you're having a rough day. Come up with a valid argument. Everything from you has been opinion based and that is why you can't even convince a 2 year old baby.

3) Yeah, I'm totally emotionally invested. Not the guy who is a known homer.

4) Durant's defense isn't better. I watched him at OKC and he's doing the same things. It's perceived as better because he's getting results due to his team being elite defenders but he doesn't lock down players the way Bron can. Like I said, you come across as a homer who only watches Warriors games and then hops onto threads pretending you know a certain team or player when the most you know about them is how tall they are. Just stop. better yet, I will stop responding because you haven't made it worthwhile.

1) You are constantly angry at the warriors. Get a clue

2) youíre talking about lebron in the playoffs, thatís great, heís a ball dominant iso player that gets stats. The curry formula is the chip formula. Iíll take that one any day. To ME, thatís what impact is about

3) the end of your response for 2 should illustrate how youíre emotionally invested, lol

4) Oh my god man, Durant is a legitimate rim protector. Lebron is not anywhere close to that, are you kidding me? KD locked lebron at stretches last year. Lebron didnít lock kd in any way shape or form. Cmon man, get with it.

Thatís great what you think of me, or maybe itís just that if I sit here and watch the wolves and sixers I donít feel it necessary to comment on some random crap in order to prove to a bunch of screen names how much basketball I watch. You the one saying lebron is a better defender than kd, yet youíre questioning MY understanding of this sport? Cmon man, thatís a joke

ewing
12-13-2017, 01:46 AM
My passive influence getting H2O for players when I tried to play D1 ball was so underrated in the pre analytic era

IKnowHoops
12-13-2017, 12:23 PM
You really did not say or prove anything here other than speak in broad strokes about your general perception of them. Color me unimpressed concerning the "if you can read all that and disagree then you are too big of a homer" nosense. You're going to need to bring a little more meat to the table for definitive statements like that my friend. That said, it's the exact same stance i have already said twice that I hold, so I'm not sure what we're discussing here exactly (or who you're talking to if not myself).

And I have still been shown zero reason to believe Bron is clearly more impactful in the regular season OR playoffs on the offensive end. For me it is the defense that he can maintain (for the shorter amount of time) that separates them. You're the one speaking like the superfan here, regardless of it being the majority opinion on this site of 15 participants or not.

I like how he "proved nothing" yet at the same time took your "exact same stance" with the same sentence. 😂

IKnowHoops
12-13-2017, 12:39 PM
Yeah, Curry simply being on the floor has more of an impact than anyone except possibly peak Shaq (and even then, I think Curry has the slight edge), but when they start doing things, LeBron and MJ and maybe some others have more of an impact in totality (i.e. both sides of the ball).


I'd agree. And in clutch-type situations when the game tends to devolve/slow down and go more ISO, there are a number of guys (including those two), who have more impact than him (on both ends). That said, he's still fantastic overall in 4th quarters + OT and has ended more than a handful of playoff games with his shot.

Agreed

IKnowHoops
12-13-2017, 12:42 PM
Mine would be MJ, Shaq, Bird, Curry, but I agree.

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Meh, I don't think so. Peak Drob, Peak Dream, Peak Wade, Peak Durant, that's more what I'd go for Peak Curry.

IKnowHoops
12-13-2017, 12:46 PM
If there was any doubt about KD:

33/10/8/3 blocks per game on 50% shooting. Total stud of a player. Wish we saw this KD every game and not the one who looks like he's holding his best games inside until he has to unleash.

Klay Thompson also playing a bit better. This team honestly doesn't need Curry to go deep into the playoffs but Curry does turn them to a behemoth of a team.

Yeah, you can't say Curry is better, or more impactful than Durant on this team. It depends who you are playing. KD hurts the Cavs more than Curry, because he cannot be slowed down at all. Curry can be bullied, and they no how. Depending on what you need in said game, either one can be equally impactful. They allow each other to be unstoppable.

tredigs
12-13-2017, 02:31 PM
I like how he "proved nothing" yet at the same time took your "exact same stance" with the same sentence. 😂

Pretty simple. Because it's not proof, and unlike him I did not make it sound obvious/definitive.

tredigs
12-13-2017, 02:34 PM
Yeah, you can't say Curry is better, or more impactful than Durant on this team. It depends who you are playing. KD hurts the Cavs more than Curry, because he cannot be slowed down at all. Curry can be bullied, and they no how. Depending on what you need in said game, either one can be equally impactful. They allow each other to be unstoppable.

It's actually incredibly easy to say that as all the numbers back it up. Why did the Cavs focus on Curry and not KD in the Finals? Because he's the one you have to throw all your forces at to try to slow down (didn't work, and it opened up KD to have the easiest offensive playoff series of his career).

lol, please
12-13-2017, 08:01 PM
you should not speak of someones shtick when you are on a mission to try and prove curry as the best in the world.. a mission you solo walk might I add... You have gone on for weeks about how valuable/crucial etc etc etc curry is and now that he is gone the warriors have not missed a beat.

Are they title contenders without him? still yes Much like they were without Durant... Face it... Curry is great but he has a loaded team around him that makes it impossible to play for his weaknesses like the cavs did in the finals thus why he cried and begged durant to come.Curry actually is the best player in the world though. Has been since his first MVP.

Just because he doesnt need to be as ball dominant now doesnt mean he's less great.

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lol, please
12-13-2017, 08:04 PM
Well canít you say the same about Durant over curry, minus the passing? So shouldnít kd have the bigger impact?No.....

Don't you understand what impact means here?

Durant doesnt draw defenders and alter the defense as much as Curry does on the floor.

How much of a concern are you to your opponent at any given time you are on the floor when you aren't actively shooting/passing etc.

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FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 08:39 PM
Curry best player in the world. Haha, that's funny. It's like the playoffs are erased from history.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 09:09 PM
No.....

Don't you understand what impact means here?

Durant doesnt draw defenders and alter the defense as much as Curry does on the floor.

How much of a concern are you to your opponent at any given time you are on the floor when you aren't actively shooting/passing etc.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Impact can mean many things, so I won't argue what the right definition of impact is.

But his point was that lebron is better because of what he brings to the table over curry, then he went to list off a bunch of things lebron is better at than curry, so I was saying can't you say the same about kd. Its more or less the same list for lebron over curry as for kd over curry (minus lebron's elite passing). If that's how you're ranking people, I don't get how curry is between lebron and kd, rather than behind both

nastynice
12-13-2017, 09:10 PM
Curry best player in the world. Haha, that's funny. It's like the playoffs are erased from history.

2 rings vs 1 tho

btw, just want to point out, jeff green would be a ****in stud if he played next to curry..

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 10:14 PM
2 rings vs 1 tho

btw, just want to point out, jeff green would be a ****in stud if he played next to curry..

You only watch Warriors games and you still don't know how to evaluate players so your credibility is detrimental to everyone here.

WaDe03
12-13-2017, 10:32 PM
2 rings vs 1 tho

btw, just want to point out, jeff green would be a ****in stud if he played next to curry..

Jeff Green has been very solid off the bench playing next to the real best player in the world. The guy in my sig.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 10:40 PM
Jeff Green has been very solid off the bench playing next to the real best player in the world. The guy in my sig.

Oh he has, but the first thing that jumps at me when watching him play is, he should be better. Heís clearly got the tools.

Iím pretty confident his value as a player would be much higher if playing next to curry

valade16
12-13-2017, 10:40 PM
2 rings vs 1 tho

btw, just want to point out, jeff green would be a ****in stud if he played next to curry..

Who is the 1 ring?

nastynice
12-13-2017, 10:42 PM
You only watch Warriors games and you still don't know how to evaluate players so your credibility is detrimental to everyone here.

I never claimed to be a scout, just dropping some perspective.

nastynice
12-13-2017, 10:48 PM
Who is the 1 ring?

Lebrons 2016.

What Iím sayin is, whatís there to erase from the playoffs? Weíve had more team success, a function of curryís play (amongst other things), the one year he was injured we lost. There ainít nothing to erase. A 6í8 athletic marvel swatted a 6í3 pg who can barely dunk. Thatís something that needs to be erased, or thatís something we should expect?

Thereís nothing to erase, we got two rings. If anything put a magnifying glass on that ****

FlashBolt
12-13-2017, 11:01 PM
I never claimed to be a scout, just dropping some perspective.

If you want to drop some perspective, you need to be objective and quit thinking like a Warriors fan and think as an NBA fan. That's why most people can't take Warriors-takes seriously here. Look at what lol, please continues to post and then tell me why anyone should accept his perspective.

Lebrons 2016.

What Iím sayin is, whatís there to erase from the playoffs? Weíve had more team success, a function of curryís play (amongst other things), the one year he was injured we lost. There ainít nothing to erase. A 6í8 athletic marvel swatted a 6í3 pg who can barely dunk. Thatís something that needs to be erased, or thatís something we should expect?

Thereís nothing to erase, we got two rings. If anything put a magnifying glass on that ****

1) You beat LeBron the first year primarily because LeBron had no help with K.Love and K.Irving being injured. It wasn't the result of Curry's amazing heroics saving the day. In fact, most people believed LeBron should have won the Finals MVP because there was a massive difference in performance.

2) Second NBA Finals, do I even have to repeat what happened? Curry choked. You can say he was injured all you want but he damn sure was healthy enough to be making those behind the back passes and I love how NO one talked about LeBron being injured in the first NBA Finals when he had to get stitches on his head from bumping into a camera. No debate here, Curry pooped the bed. How bad? People were ready to put Curry ahead of LeBron as the new Face of the NBA. After that Finals appearance, no one would dare bring that argument up again other than the occasional bandwagoners.

3) Yes, last year's NBA Finals, KD was the best player on the Warriors while LeBron once again, proved he is the best player that not even a team as good as the Warriors that stacked before getting KD, could get LeBron out easily. You got two rings, correct. But your last ring left a distasteful sour feeling that it had to be the most dull ring celebration I've ever encountered. You could find more people celebrating in a Spurs title win. People accepted the Warriors should have won before a game was played that season. And I'm not sure why you're turning this into a debate about who has more rings the past three seasons when this was a debate about Curry vs LeBron's impact. You can't seriously use that argument as to why Curry has two and LeBron has one the past three seasons. Lots and lots of variables came into play that had nothing to do with Curry's "impact."

nastynice
12-14-2017, 12:10 AM
1) You beat LeBron the first year primarily because LeBron had no help with K.Love and K.Irving being injured. It wasn't the result of Curry's amazing heroics saving the day. In fact, most people believed LeBron should have won the Finals MVP because there was a massive difference in performance.

2) Second NBA Finals, do I even have to repeat what happened? Curry choked. You can say he was injured all you want but he damn sure was healthy enough to be making those behind the back passes and I love how NO one talked about LeBron being injured in the first NBA Finals when he had to get stitches on his head from bumping into a camera. No debate here, Curry pooped the bed. How bad? People were ready to put Curry ahead of LeBron as the new Face of the NBA. After that Finals appearance, no one would dare bring that argument up again other than the occasional bandwagoners.

3) Yes, last year's NBA Finals, KD was the best player on the Warriors while LeBron once again, proved he is the best player that not even a team as good as the Warriors that stacked before getting KD, could get LeBron out easily. You got two rings, correct. But your last ring left a distasteful sour feeling that it had to be the most dull ring celebration I've ever encountered. You could find more people celebrating in a Spurs title win. People accepted the Warriors should have won before a game was played that season. And I'm not sure why you're turning this into a debate about who has more rings the past three seasons when this was a debate about Curry vs LeBron's impact. You can't seriously use that argument as to why Curry has two and LeBron has one the past three seasons. Lots and lots of variables came into play that had nothing to do with Curry's "impact."

Lebron has been playing amazing in the finals. My whole argument is that what Curry brings that lebron doesnít is the ability to allow for a more dangerous 5 on the court at once. Lebron playing great in the finals doesnít address what Iím bringing up, you get that right?

Of course there were variables that had nothing to do with his impact, but there also were variables that had a lot to do with it. Great. Like I said, thereís nothing to forget about the playoffs. Curry played very good in two wins, struggled in one loss. Lebron played great in 1 win and 2 loss. Whatís to forget?

nastynice
12-14-2017, 12:19 AM
If you want to drop some perspective, you need to be objective and quit thinking like a Warriors fan and think as an NBA fan. That's why most people can't take Warriors-takes seriously here. Look at what lol, please continues to post and then tell me why anyone should accept his perspective.


Look man, I get that I pump up my team and magnify all the positive qualities we have, Iím a fan sue me, but everything I say has merit. Youíre def a hater, are you honestly unaware of this? haha.

Even in this thread, letís illustrate a hater. I said I donít really know how to answer the question cuz I donít know what impact means exactly, but if weíre saying who gives you the highest team ceiling then I say curry. He gives you the highest ceiling, period, and itís just because of the way he plays combined with the era he plays in. Although give respect where due, he certainly played a major role in creating this 3pt era.

But you canít stand the idea that someone doesnít think lebron is just the greatest thing to happen to basketball in every single way, so you start getting irritated and the hate just comes out more, lol

*hah, please tell me ur chuckling in half your posts to me :cheers:

lol, please
12-14-2017, 01:12 PM
Curry best player in the world. Haha, that's funny. It's like the playoffs are erased from history.Playoffs are only a subset of a full season.

And curry has had tremendous success in the playoffs.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
12-14-2017, 02:55 PM
GS about to win their 4th straight game tonight without Curry.

Not sure the Cavs win 4 games the entire year without LeBron.

http://www.troll.me/images/im-just-saying/im-just-sayin.jpg

FlashBolt
12-14-2017, 03:04 PM
GS about to win their 4th straight game tonight without Curry.

Not sure the Cavs win 4 games the entire year without LeBron.

http://www.troll.me/images/im-just-saying/im-just-sayin.jpg

But, imact bro.. impact.

tredigs
12-14-2017, 03:42 PM
GS about to win their 4th straight game tonight without Curry.

Not sure the Cavs win 4 games the entire year without LeBron.

http://www.troll.me/images/im-just-saying/im-just-sayin.jpg

You're not this stupid. So don't fall into the trap of the stupid. When you're 3 pegs better than middling teams you can lose a player and maintain course, regardless of who it is.

Also doesn't help your case that Bron's teams are so indoctrinated and suffocated by Bron ball that they can't maintain without him. It's a very bad trait of all of his teams.

Vee-Rex
12-14-2017, 03:50 PM
You're not this stupid. So don't fall into the trap of the stupid. When you're 3 pegs better than middling teams you can lose a player and maintain course, regardless of who it is.

Also doesn't help your case that Bron's teams are so indoctrinated and suffocated by Bron ball that they can't maintain without him. It's a very bad trait of all of his teams.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/059/019/why-so-serious-beetlejuice-joker.jpg

ewing
12-14-2017, 04:12 PM
You're not this stupid. So don't fall into the trap of the stupid. When you're 3 pegs better than middling teams you can lose a player and maintain course, regardless of who it is.

Also doesn't help your case that Bron's teams are so indoctrinated and suffocated by Bron ball that they can't maintain without him. It's a very bad trait of all of his teams.

Give up the ghost


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nastynice
12-14-2017, 04:28 PM
GS about to win their 4th straight game tonight without Curry.

Not sure the Cavs win 4 games the entire year without LeBron.

http://www.troll.me/images/im-just-saying/im-just-sayin.jpg

Ironically enough, you made this comment with the picture of a person who retired just to have his teammate win mvp and lead them to the ECF.

So if you're suggesting Jordan ain't **** cuz of how good his team was, then I'll accept you saying the same about curry. If not, then same with curry. Gotta pick a lane my dude

I'm just sayin :shrug: ;) :cheers:

nastynice
12-14-2017, 04:30 PM
Take Dame off the blazers, they're probably the worst team in the league. If the standard is how crappy is the team without the star then I think Dame is the most impactful player in the league

Vee-Rex
12-14-2017, 04:34 PM
Ironically enough, you made this comment with the picture of a person who retired just to have his teammate win mvp and lead them to the ECF.

So if you're suggesting Jordan ain't **** cuz of how good his team was, then I'll accept you saying the same about curry. If not, then same with curry. Gotta pick a lane my dude

I'm just sayin :shrug: ;) :cheers:

I'm suggesting Curry and Jordan ain't **** now?

Holy mother of overreactions. :laugh2:

nastynice
12-14-2017, 04:37 PM
I'm suggesting Curry and Jordan ain't **** now?

Holy mother of overreactions. :laugh2:

what were you suggesting..?

we really gonna focus on "ain't ****" :rolleyes: c'mon vee, you know what Im sayin here

Vee-Rex
12-14-2017, 04:42 PM
what were you suggesting..?

we really gonna focus on "ain't ****" :rolleyes: c'mon vee, you know what Im sayin here

I'm just pointing out that the Warriors are winning without Stephen Curry, but in jest. For fun. Hence the meme.

Much like how multiple (and I mean multiple) GS fans have brought up the Spurs winning and their w/l record dating back to last season without Kawhi.

I didn't expect to get a gun put to my head because of it. :laugh2:

you mfers are some tense *** dudes