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mrblisterdundee
12-02-2017, 04:49 PM
Give us your top five for each of the major awards as of a quarter of the season.

EDIT: I totally forgot about Most Improved Player and COY. Give us those too.

mrblisterdundee
12-02-2017, 04:49 PM
Here are mine:

MVP
1. James Harden
2. LeBron James
3. Stephen Curry
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Kyrie Irving

Kevin Durant seems to be OK with being the beta, so I'm OK with taking him out of the top five. LaMarcus Aldridge was also serious contender, putting up big numbers and good shooting percentages on a top-six team ó without Kawhi Leonard.

DPOY
1. Andre Drummond
2. Al Horford
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Clint Capela
5. Ben Simmons

Simmons doesn't get the stats of Giannis Antetokounmpo or reputation of Draymond Green, but he's tearing it up on the 11th best defense in the league as a rookie. Golden State only has the eighth-best defense, and the Bucks are 17th.

ROY
1. Ben Simmons
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Donovan Mitchell
4. John Collins
5. Kyle Kuzma

Dennis Smith Jr. is exciting, he doesn't impact the game like these guys.

MIP
1. Kristaps Porzingis
2. Aaron Gordon
3. Andre Drummond
4. Tobias Harris
5. Jaylen Brown

COY
1. Brad Stevens
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Gregg Popovich
4. Stan Van Gundy
5. Quin Snyder

Heediot
12-02-2017, 05:23 PM
harden rudy Simmons.

mip oladipo

coach Brad stevens

mightybosstone
12-02-2017, 05:38 PM
I'm not going to do top 5 as that's a ton of work, but here's my picks thus far...

MVP: Harden
DPOY: Horford
ROY: Simmons
COY: Stevens
MIP: Porzingis
6th man: Lou Williams (just guessing here... really hard to pick this one so early)

BKLYNpigeon
12-02-2017, 05:53 PM
MVP: Harden / Lebron
DPOY: Nobody stands out yet.
ROY: Simmons / Mitchell
COY: Van Gundy
MIP: Tobias Harris
6th man: Eric Gordon / Wade

tredigs
12-02-2017, 11:11 PM
DPOY is the only one that nobody is standing out at (6th man I'm not sure). Dray and the Warriors had a slow start defensively, so maybe a Horford could be the guy in the early going with where their defense stands and how solid he's been.

MVP is Harden.

COY is Stevens (with an HO to Van Gundy).

MIP is Oladipo or Aaron Gordon (prefer guys with a few years in the league for this award).

More-Than-Most
12-02-2017, 11:25 PM
MVP Embiid
DPOY Embiid


:shrug:

tredigs
12-03-2017, 01:24 AM
Gobert has absolutely 0 claim to DPOY this year btw. Beyond his missed time, they've actually been better defensively with him off the court (small sample size but all we have, so... what are we basing his dominance on exactly...). As an aside, they have exploded offensively with him gone (more of a spacing issue and a testament to how good Mitchell has been but still).

tredigs
12-03-2017, 01:28 AM
MVP Embiid
DPOY Embiid


:shrug:
Your comment will be taken as a joke as his offense has been middling + inconsistent and he's nowhere close to the true most impactful players in the game, he could theoretically be in the running for DPOY sure.

More-Than-Most
12-03-2017, 01:39 AM
Your comment will be taken as a joke as his offense has been middling + inconsistent and he's nowhere close to the true most impactful players in the game, he could theoretically be in the running for DPOY sure.

lol i wouldnt have him as mvp either but i gotta stick behind the man i worship.

WaDe03
12-04-2017, 11:31 AM
MVP: Harden
DPOY: idk probably Wade
6MOY: Wade
MIP: Oladipo/Gordon
COY: Stevens
ROY: easily Simmons

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 12:55 PM
MVP: Harden or Bron. I'd take Bron but that's me. Harden should win it.
DPOY: Probably go with Horford.
ROY: Ben Simmons.
MIP: Giannis. Huge leap in scoring and PER. Overall he's better in many areas.

TheDish87
12-04-2017, 03:41 PM
MVP: Harden
HM: Irving

DPOY: Embiid
HM: Horford

ROY: Simmons
HM: Tatum

MIP: Oladipo
HM: Aaron Gordon, T. J McConnell

COY: Brad Stevens
HM: Brett Brown, Stan Van

ewing
12-04-2017, 04:05 PM
MVP: Harden
HM: Irving

DPOY: Embiid
HM: Horford

ROY: Simmons
HM: Tatum

MIP: Oladipo
HM: Aaron Gordon, T. J McConnell

COY: Brad Stevens
HM: Brett Brown, Stan Van

I have trouble with Victor as MIP bc I donít know if he really improved. I think he just playing a different role


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FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 05:23 PM
Nothing about Kyrie is MVP impact to me. He's a very good player and that's it.

TheDish87
12-04-2017, 05:41 PM
how doesnt he?

tredigs
12-04-2017, 05:45 PM
how doesnt he?

He's a scorer, that's it. Average to below average at every other facet of the game. That team is winning due to their incredible defense to start the year, he's just their face.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 06:01 PM
how doesnt he?

How does he? I mean, for someone who adores Embiid, I'm not sure what you see in Kyrie that would make you consider him an MVP. Embiid is probably a better MVP candidate than Kyrie right now. Kyrie's benefitting from a rather unexpected team defense that has been elite. That's why they are winning games. It isn't anything Kyrie is doing. He's a known repeater of poor defense so there's no way you can credit him at all for this sudden elite defense. I watched a video of Stevens telling his players how to play defensive coverages and the guy knows what he's doing.

rhino17
12-04-2017, 06:07 PM
Idk how you could seriously consider Kyrie an MVP candidate right now with Lebron and Harden doing what they are doing. Even Steph and Durant.

hugepatsfan
12-04-2017, 06:10 PM
Yeah Kyrie belongs no where near the discussion. I mean, IDK if you really wanna drag the list out and do a full ballot then go for it but he's not close to #1.

Green_Monster
12-04-2017, 06:22 PM
How does he? I mean, for someone who adores Embiid, I'm not sure what you see in Kyrie that would make you consider him an MVP. Embiid is probably a better MVP candidate than Kyrie right now. Kyrie's benefitting from a rather unexpected team defense that has been elite. That's why they are winning games. It isn't anything Kyrie is doing. He's a known repeater of poor defense so there's no way you can credit him at all for this sudden elite defense. I watched a video of Stevens telling his players how to play defensive coverages and the guy knows what he's doing.

I mean... Kyrie has been a beast. Heís a huge reason why theyíre winning games. The offense outside of him (and Horford) can be very bad. His advanced numbers are all up.

Heís shouldnít be in the MVP discussion but donít sell him short. Heís been better than Embiid according to pretty much any advanced stat that isnít position related.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 08:26 PM
I mean... Kyrie has been a beast. Heís a huge reason why theyíre winning games. The offense outside of him (and Horford) can be very bad. His advanced numbers are all up.

Heís shouldnít be in the MVP discussion but donít sell him short. Heís been better than Embiid according to pretty much any advanced stat that isnít position related.

Well, if we both agree that he shouldn't be in consideration for MVP, I think that's the point. Don't get me wrong, he's their best scorer and primarily ballhandler. But I'm not the only one who thinks you can substitute other players in his role and achieve equal or better results. If Kyrie was the main driver of the Celtics and put up better numbers to demonstrate that, he would deserve consideration. 23/5/4 (he's below average in rebounding/passing/defense) isn't going to convince anyone.

hugepatsfan
12-04-2017, 08:37 PM
Kyrie's 23 points/game I think is somewhat artificially low. He's only playing 31.7 minutes/game. His per 36 is 26 points per game.

And then of the 23 games he's played in one was the one where he broke a cheek bone 1:30 in and had no points. So if you pull out that game his PPG jumps a whole point up to 24. I think those are more representative of the type of scorer he's been, particularly with his career high FG%. But that's not up on the level of Harden or Lebron and his all around game certainly isn't up there. So he really just deserves no serious consideration for the actual award.

homie564
12-04-2017, 08:39 PM
Well, if we both agree that he shouldn't be in consideration for MVP, I think that's the point. Don't get me wrong, he's their best scorer and primarily ballhandler. But I'm not the only one who thinks you can substitute other players in his role and achieve equal or better results. If Kyrie was the main driver of the Celtics and put up better numbers to demonstrate that, he would deserve consideration. 23/5/4 (he's below average in rebounding/passing/defense) isn't going to convince anyone.

Agree that he isnít in MVP consideration (borderline top 5 maybe... if that)... I do feel like youíre selling him short though. His defense is much improved (obviously thanks to Stevens but that doesnít take away that itís improved) and his passing is very good as well. The offense runs through him so he doesnít get the assists but heís one of the most dynamic all around offensive players in the league.

I feel like some people still think this is Cleveland Kyrie... Boston Kyrie is a different player. As much as I loved IT (still rock my IT4 jersey on game days lol), there is a very noticeable and tangible difference between the two. The upgrade there has been way more substantial than I couldíve ever imagined


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AntiG
12-07-2017, 11:43 AM
Irving is the MVP right now. The C's are the top team in the NBA, and you can clearly see that its due to him being a huge upgrade to IT4 who was spectacular last year.

IndyRealist
12-07-2017, 11:55 AM
MVP: Harden
DPOY: idk probably Wade
6MOY: Wade
MIP: Oladipo/Gordon
COY: Stevens
ROY: easily Simmons
You couldn't find a way to get Wade COY too? You're slipping.

IndyRealist
12-07-2017, 11:58 AM
How much is Tatum hurt in ROY voting by being on a stacked team?

hugepatsfan
12-07-2017, 12:05 PM
How much is Tatum hurt in ROY voting by being on a stacked team?

Less than he is by Simmons just being an absolute monster of a player, that's for sure. He's just special.

Honestly, not sure he's even hurt at all. I think the fact that he's contributing for a winner is something mentioned in his favor. It also allows him to have increased efficiency. I think those positives outweigh the negative of lower counting stats.

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 12:07 PM
Irving is the MVP right now. The C's are the top team in the NBA, and you can clearly see that its due to him being a huge upgrade to IT4 who was spectacular last year.

This is the kind of surface level, bargain basement NBA take that I would see on a show like First Take. If you think Kyrie averaging 23/5/3 deserves to win MVP over the ridiculous video game numbers that Harden and Lebron are putting up, then I don't really know what to tell you. He's not even one of the 5-7 best players in the league right now. And his Celtics are hardly better than the Rockets. Point differential and SRS favor the Rockets by a pretty wide margin.

KnicksorBust
12-07-2017, 12:34 PM
Here are mine:

MVP
1. James Harden
2. LeBron James
3. Stephen Curry
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Kyrie Irving

Kevin Durant seems to be OK with being the beta, so I'm OK with taking him out of the top five. LaMarcus Aldridge was also serious contender, putting up big numbers and good shooting percentages on a top-six team ó without Kawhi Leonard.

DPOY
1. Andre Drummond
2. Al Horford
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Clint Capela
5. Ben Simmons

Simmons doesn't get the stats of Giannis Antetokounmpo or reputation of Draymond Green, but he's tearing it up on the 11th best defense in the league as a rookie. Golden State only has the eighth-best defense, and the Bucks are 17th.

ROY
1. Ben Simmons
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Donovan Mitchell
4. John Collins
5. Kyle Kuzma

Dennis Smith Jr. is exciting, he doesn't impact the game like these guys.

MIP
1. Kristaps Porzingis
2. Aaron Gordon
3. Andre Drummond
4. Tobias Harris
5. Jaylen Brown

COY
1. Brad Stevens
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Gregg Popovich
4. Stan Van Gundy
5. Quin Snyder

Pretty legit post. 25 opinions in one post and probably only 2-3 I would change. I agree with others that Dipo belongs on the MIP list. By far his best scoring season. I also really want LeBron to get MVP. I love what he is doing in Cleveland this year.

Tg11
12-07-2017, 12:36 PM
For me MVP it is between Kyrie and LeBron and Giannis

But as for Rookie of the Year unaminously for me right now it is Ben Simmons

6th Man of the Year- Wade right now on the Cavs

mightybosstone
12-07-2017, 02:27 PM
For me MVP it is between Kyrie and LeBron and Giannis

OK. Let's hear a legitimate case for those three guys over Harden, who has arguably the most dominant statline in the league and plays for a team with the second best record in the league, the highest point differential and the highest SRS? Seriously, I can understand putting Lebron ahead of him at least, but Kyrie and (especially) Giannis have literally no leg to stand on.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 12:34 AM
OK. Let's hear a legitimate case for those three guys over Harden, who has arguably the most dominant statline in the league and plays for a team with the second best record in the league, the highest point differential and the highest SRS? Seriously, I can understand putting Lebron ahead of him at least, but Kyrie and (especially) Giannis have literally no leg to stand on.

I mean, LeBron has a legitimate case every year and this season is particularly true. Harden's great but like I said a few days ago, it's too close with the stats and narratives do matter. LeBron's narrative this season has been more appealing. I don't get the Kyrie and Giannis one, though. How does Kyrie get away with putting those numbers as an MVP? And Giannis doesn't take over and win games for his team.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 12:36 AM
Seriously, how is Kyrie Irving an MVP candidate? If LeBron or Harden put his averages up, they would be labeled as chokers and how they suck. Kyrie isn't known for his defense so which part of his game is seriously MVP-worthy? He's clutch, what else? I mean, c'mon now. If I have to see Kyrie's name again, I'm going to puke. Have ya'll seen what JH and LJ are doing??

tredigs
12-08-2017, 12:55 AM
It's Harden followed by LeBron. Then Curry, then the rest. Stats/wins/impact wise (oh sorry to bring up the whole team impact thing), those are the only ones who have legitimate cases. It's also not even 1/3rd of the way through the season, so who knows.

valade16
12-08-2017, 12:58 AM
Giannis looked like he was going to walk away with the award to start the year and he fell back to normal (where, normal for him).

It's Harden, much as his game is unappealing to purists.

AntiG
12-08-2017, 02:34 AM
Seriously, how is Kyrie Irving an MVP candidate? If LeBron or Harden put his averages up, they would be labeled as chokers and how they suck. Kyrie isn't known for his defense so which part of his game is seriously MVP-worthy? He's clutch, what else? I mean, c'mon now. If I have to see Kyrie's name again, I'm going to puke. Have ya'll seen what JH and LJ are doing??

Just watch, he'll be top 3 in MVP voting, and might win it. There are a lot more to being an MVP than just stats. His impact on his teammates and overall team play has been up there with LeBron's return to Cleveland a few years back, or KG coming to Boston. Not only has Kyrie completely changed the dynamic and flow of the offense, he has been pretty damned good defensively as well. His replacing IT4 has been an incredible upgrade in basically every aspect of the game that pretty much no one following the Celtics ever expected (heck a lot of fans were not happy about the trade). Those impacts won't be found on individual stat sheets, but you can see it clear as day on their team stats and in the win column.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 02:38 AM
Just watch, he'll be top 3 in MVP voting, and might win it. There are a lot more to being an MVP than just stats. His impact on his teammates and overall team play has been up there with LeBron's return to Cleveland a few years back. Not only has Kyrie completely changed the dynamic and flow of the offense, he has been pretty damned good defensively as well. His replacing IT4 has been an incredible upgrade in basically every aspect of the game that pretty much no one following the Celtics ever expected (heck a lot of fans were not happy about the trade). Those impacts won't be found on individual stat sheets, but you can see it clear as day on their team stats and in the win column.
Yeah, sorry. You aren't convincing anyone of his impact on the team. He's a scorer, that's it. Win it? Lol, c'mon. Only way he wins it is if LeBron and Harden suffer season ending injuries. You say it doesn't show up on the stat sheet precisely because it's your only way of defending Kyrie having a pedestrian type season for a player of his caliber. It's much easier to just "imagine" his impact on the team when it can't be proven statistically. Sorry, the numbers do matter in MVP conversations and Kyrie's numbers don't represent the wins. If it does, please explain what he is doing that is so much more different than he has his previous seasons. Are you telling me he is responsible for Boston's defense? He's been BENEFITING the most from it.

archdevil84
12-08-2017, 05:11 AM
lebron has shot under 50% only 2 times in 25 games. thats insane

Oakmont_4
12-08-2017, 07:55 AM
MVP: Harden or Bron. I'd take Bron but that's me. Harden should win it.
DPOY: Probably go with Horford.
ROY: Ben Simmons.
MIP: Giannis. Huge leap in scoring and PER. Overall he's better in many areas.

Weren't you saying Horford was a defensive bum in the offseason and was one of the worst contracts in the NBA? Or am I mistaken?

homie564
12-08-2017, 08:02 AM
Yeah, sorry. You aren't convincing anyone of his impact on the team. He's a scorer, that's it. Win it? Lol, c'mon. Only way he wins it is if LeBron and Harden suffer season ending injuries. You say it doesn't show up on the stat sheet precisely because it's your only way of defending Kyrie having a pedestrian type season for a player of his caliber. It's much easier to just "imagine" his impact on the team when it can't be proven statistically. Sorry, the numbers do matter in MVP conversations and Kyrie's numbers don't represent the wins. If it does, please explain what he is doing that is so much more different than he has his previous seasons. Are you telling me he is responsible for Boston's defense? He's been BENEFITING the most from it.

Kyrie should really be a fringe top 5 MVP candidate. I do think itís unfair to act like heís a bum defensively still... Stevens has put him in a role that has turned him into an asset on that end. Thereís no argument for him over Harden and Bron though... might have an argument for him as the MVP if it stood for most valuable Point Guard?... lol


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mightybosstone
12-08-2017, 11:20 AM
Anyone else having issues quoting other posts this morning?

Anyway, in responding to the idea of Kyrie as an MVP candidate, I think it's fair to say that he's in the top 5 conversation right now, but I think he's still clearly a tier below Harden and Lebron. But the one thing that gives him a chance is that the Celtics have the best record in the league. As long as that continues to be the case, he's got an outside shot as a dark horse candidate because of the team success and narrative. However, if teams like Houston, Golden State and Cleveland catch up and/or surpass the Celtics, I don't think his candidacy will be remotely as strong.

Is Kyrie the best player on the team with the league's best record? Definitely. Has Kyrie proven that he belongs in the conversation among the league's 10 best players? Sure. Should he be the front runner for MVP? Not remotely. If he were to win, it would be similar to Rose's MVP, which many (myself included) consider to be one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the game. And Kyrie's numbers (at least the ones that matter to voters) are arguably inferior to Rose's numbers that season.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 12:46 PM
Weren't you saying Horford was a defensive bum in the offseason and was one of the worst contracts in the NBA? Or am I mistaken?

I said he was overpriced but never said he was a defensive bum. That's one thing he is consistent about. He sucks in the playoffs vs Bron and quite frankly, that's all that matters these days if you're trying to beat him.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 01:12 PM
Anyone else having issues quoting other posts this morning?

Anyway, in responding to the idea of Kyrie as an MVP candidate, I think it's fair to say that he's in the top 5 conversation right now, but I think he's still clearly a tier below Harden and Lebron. But the one thing that gives him a chance is that the Celtics have the best record in the league. As long as that continues to be the case, he's got an outside shot as a dark horse candidate because of the team success and narrative. However, if teams like Houston, Golden State and Cleveland catch up and/or surpass the Celtics, I don't think his candidacy will be remotely as strong.

Is Kyrie the best player on the team with the league's best record? Definitely. Has Kyrie proven that he belongs in the conversation among the league's 10 best players? Sure. Should he be the front runner for MVP? Not remotely. If he were to win, it would be similar to Rose's MVP, which many (myself included) consider to be one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the game. And Kyrie's numbers (at least the ones that matter to voters) are arguably inferior to Rose's numbers that season.

Yeah, the solution is to click "Reply with Quote" and then click "Remove all selected posts."

WaDe03
12-08-2017, 01:39 PM
OK. Let's hear a legitimate case for those three guys over Harden, who has arguably the most dominant statline in the league and plays for a team with the second best record in the league, the highest point differential and the highest SRS? Seriously, I can understand putting Lebron ahead of him at least, but Kyrie and (especially) Giannis have literally no leg to stand on.

I don't even think that guy knows what he's talking about half the time other than Wade being 6MOY. I wouldn't take anything he says serious but yea, I definitely understand how frustrating it is to see someone who could actually think something like that lol.

hugepatsfan
12-08-2017, 01:51 PM
Yeah, sorry. You aren't convincing anyone of his impact on the team. He's a scorer, that's it. Win it? Lol, c'mon. Only way he wins it is if LeBron and Harden suffer season ending injuries. You say it doesn't show up on the stat sheet precisely because it's your only way of defending Kyrie having a pedestrian type season for a player of his caliber. It's much easier to just "imagine" his impact on the team when it can't be proven statistically. Sorry, the numbers do matter in MVP conversations and Kyrie's numbers don't represent the wins. If it does, please explain what he is doing that is so much more different than he has his previous seasons. Are you telling me he is responsible for Boston's defense? He's been BENEFITING the most from it.

Kyrie's season has not been a "pedestrian type season for a player of his caliber" at all. He's shooting a career high FG% by 49% to 47.3%... that's pretty significant. His 23.5 PPG looks low but that's because BOS has been so good that he only plays 31.8 minutes per game. Per 36 he's scoring 26.7 PPG which is a career high rate. He's obviously defending better than he ever has. He's playing the best basketball of his career so far.

He ain't even in the discussion for MVP though. That much we can agree on.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 01:53 PM
lebron has shot under 50% only 2 times in 25 games. thats insane

Yeah. I said that when he was at 15 games in. Ten games later and it's still at that.. is it me or does LeBron literally NEVER have a bad game? If he's under 50%, I'm already saying damn, this is an off game for him.

FlashBolt
12-08-2017, 01:56 PM
Kyrie's season has not been a "pedestrian type season for a player of his caliber" at all. He's shooting a career high FG% by 49% to 47.3%... that's pretty significant. His 23.5 PPG looks low but that's because BOS has been so good that he only plays 31.8 minutes per game. Per 36 he's scoring 26.7 PPG which is a career high rate. He's obviously defending better than he ever has. He's playing the best basketball of his career so far.

He ain't even in the discussion for MVP though. That much we can agree on.

Compare him to other PG's, though. Is he really any better than Lillard? What about John Wall? I don't see a huge difference in those guys. Kyrie's a 2nd tier PG in this league and IMO, clearly behind CP3+Curry+Westy+Harden (should we call him a SG now with CP3 back?). Is he playing great? Sure is. I never doubted his ability to be a scorer but I do think he's benefitted the most from this Boston's overall defense. He should be very thankful Cavs traded him to a team that is well-managed.

JordansBulls
12-09-2017, 09:45 PM
MVP
1. Harden
2. Kyrie
3. Giannis
4. Lebron
5. Curry

BoSox47
12-10-2017, 12:16 AM
Compare him to other PG's, though. Is he really any better than Lillard? What about John Wall? I don't see a huge difference in those guys. Kyrie's a 2nd tier PG in this league and IMO, clearly behind CP3+Curry+Westy+Harden (should we call him a SG now with CP3 back?). Is he playing great? Sure is. I never doubted his ability to be a scorer but I do think he's benefitted the most from this Boston's overall defense. He should be very thankful Cavs traded him to a team that is well-managed.

WS/48:

Curry: .280
Kyrie: .240
Lillard: .214
Wall: .153
Westbrook: .129


At least statistically Kyrie is out performing some of the best in the league. Including the ones you mentioned.

warfelg
12-10-2017, 09:27 AM
My question on Kyrie....is he doing anything you didn't expect?

This is kinda what I thought we would get out of him TBH. His defense is a little surprising, but they are putting him on the easier assignment on the outside so that is helping him some there.

basch152
12-10-2017, 09:43 AM
I always love these discussions because you can see ridiculous opinions from low basketball iq people who think a player is great because he's can score some points even though he's average at best at every other facet of the game.

FlashBolt
12-11-2017, 01:19 PM
WS/48:

Curry: .280
Kyrie: .240
Lillard: .214
Wall: .153
Westbrook: .129


At least statistically Kyrie is out performing some of the best in the league. Including the ones you mentioned.

Lol. Did you seriously quote a statistic that values winning as their biggest measure? C'mon, dude. Kyrie is an elite scorer but he is seriously, below average at most facets of the game. It doesn't take a genius to see that. It's why he will never be considered a legitimate case for MVP. He's a very great scorer, like everyone has said, but that's not representative of what other guys are capable of doing out there. What makes you think Kyrie is on the level of a guy like Kawhi, KD, LeBron, Curry, Harden, AD, Giannis? Nothing.

tredigs
12-11-2017, 02:23 PM
Flash is right that Kyrie's one-dimensional nature makes him less impactful then all of the true top-5 level guys in the NBA, but he's dead wrong to say that Kyrie is not a legitimate MVP candidate. He's also undervaluing how important being an elite/dynamic scorer is. Kyrie has become a good enough scorer/finisher at this point that he holds massive value, specifically on a team where their defense is the engine (it's akin to AI on Philly's defensive juggernaut, but with better scoring/playmaking options alongside him). Whether people like it or not, Kyrie is very much in the discussion for MVP this season as far as the voters are concerned.

And it's not just the .237 WS/48 that he's showing up in statistically. He's putting up 24 PPG (in 32 mpg) on a >60% TS, doesn't turn the ball over, a career high 25.0 PER, has doubled his career high in BPM, is top 10 in ORPM, and his "clutch" scoring numbers have been great. It's a legit case for his first top-10 level season (probably closer to 15 but he's up there).

That said, Harden has a historically dominant .334 WS/48, 31.3 PER, a lead leading BPM and RPM, is leading the league in scoring on elite efficiency, is an elite playmaker, and is the leader of the most dominant team in the NBA right now (slightly over the Warriors right now even). There's no world where Kyrie should even be in the discussion of taking MVP votes over him (or Lebron) right now, but I'd entertain him getting 3rd place votes over anyone else. I'd personally have Curry/Giannis as the 3-4 on a ballot but Kyrie would at least would warrant thought.