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JasonJohnHorn
12-01-2017, 11:17 PM
The dude has played fewer than half as many games as everybody on the list.
https://i.imgur.com/zgoqcit.jpg

This is just insane.

FlashBolt
12-01-2017, 11:29 PM
Curry revolutionized the current NBA. Deserves more credit in terms of overall NBA impact. Him, Allen Iverson, LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird.

FlashBolt
12-01-2017, 11:36 PM
Curry should break Ray Allen's record in three years. He'll be in his prime still.

ewing
12-01-2017, 11:44 PM
Curry revolutionized the current NBA. Deserves more credit in terms of overall NBA impact. Him, Allen Iverson, LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird.

he does. its interesting though. Cause he revolutionized it with volume. If Reggie Miller played right now he would take a ton of 3s. Curry is clearly the greatest shooter of all time and would be be the best shooter in any era but it also feels a bit like a prefect storm for him where rules guy like Dantoni revolutionizing the game worked in his favor.

goingfor28
12-02-2017, 12:35 AM
He's going to absolutely shatter Ray Allen's record when his career is done

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lol, please
12-02-2017, 12:40 AM
And he will break that record in 3 seasons

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mikekhelxD
12-02-2017, 12:46 AM
He's going to absolutely shatter Ray Allen's record when his career is done

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Yeeep. I wont be surprised if he touches 4k,even 5 maybe

HandsOnTheWheel
12-02-2017, 12:51 AM
What's there to say here? Easily the best shooter ever

FlashBolt
12-02-2017, 12:57 AM
Yeeep. I wont be surprised if he touches 4k,even 5 maybe

4k would be for sure. 5k would have him playing till age 39 while shooting 10 threes per game. I don't think that's happening. He also has to play at least 80 games. Crazy part is I think a player will come along and surpass Curry eventually. He spent a few seasons just shooting around 5-8 threes.

nastynice
12-02-2017, 01:03 AM
4k would be for sure. 5k would have him playing till age 39 while shooting 10 threes per game. I don't think that's happening. He also has to play at least 80 games. Crazy part is I think a player will come along and surpass Curry eventually. He spent a few seasons just shooting around 5-8 threes.

If the game keeps trending how it is, then probably. I do wonder how many guys like Miller and Allen’s woulda had if playing today. Not just steph who revolutionized the game, he also had a coach who gave him the ultimate green light. I think now hardens on pace to smash Allen’s record too

Jeffy25
12-02-2017, 01:15 AM
Curry should break Ray Allen's record in three years. He'll be in his prime still.

He won't even have 1000 games played when he does.

IndyRealist
12-02-2017, 01:22 AM
Curry revolutionized the current NBA. Deserves more credit in terms of overall NBA impact. Him, Allen Iverson, LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird.

I'd say a lot of that credit goes to D'Antoni first and foremost, and analytics departments everywhere secondly.

basch152
12-02-2017, 02:57 AM
hasn't Durant being on the team slowed him down

Jeffy25
12-02-2017, 03:15 AM
hasn't Durant being on the team slowed him down

Three years prior to Durant

7.9 3PA
8.1
11.2 per game

Then last year
10.0
This year
9.5

KnicksorBust
12-02-2017, 09:10 AM
null


He may have more but imo you can't compare a guy like Reggie Miller. Miller doesn't have the same level of ball handling/passing skills that Curry has right now. I just can't imagine Reggie Miller at the top of the key running a pick and roll and pulling up for the 3.

mightybosstone
12-02-2017, 09:13 AM
Wow. That's crazy. And he'll move up to at least sixth on this list by the end of the season, with a decent shot to even pass Korver for fifth. If he can at least hit 250 threes a season (something he's easily done each of the past five years), he'll pass Allen in four years. But I'm guessing he does it sooner than that. Also, because 3-point shooting isn't a skill that necessarily requires a ton of athleticism, there's really no reason why he can't continue a high volume (although maybe not quite as high) of 3-pointers as he gets into his mid-30s. Topping 4,000 is not out of the question if he stays healthy.

Looking at the all-time list via BBR, Harden and Thompson are also under-30 guys quickly making their way up the list, sitting at 27th and 30th, respectively. At the rate those two are going, making 250+ threes a season in recent years, it would not remotely be a shock for them to both pass Allen as well. If they continue that pace for six more seasons, they'll both be within 100 threes of Allen in six years.

Edit: Although not as prolific a 3-point shooter as the other guys mentioned, it's worth noting that Lebron is 26th on this list. Even though we don't think of him as a great 3-point shooter in his career, he's only like 430 threes away from No. 10 on the list, and he's on pace for the most 3-pointers in a season in his career by a mile. Harden and Thompson will pass him soon, and a lot of the guys ahead of him are still playing (albeit all in their mid-30s), but I think there's a strong possibility he cracks the top 10 on that list, too. By the time this guy retires, there will be very few career lists where he's not in the top 10.

Heediot
12-02-2017, 09:52 AM
He may have more but imo you can't compare a guy like Reggie Miller. Miller doesn't have the same level of ball handling/passing skills that Curry has right now. I just can't imagine Reggie Miller at the top of the key running a pick and roll and pulling up for the 3.

Reggie could at least shoot it as much as Klay who is a weak ball handler.

Pick N roll game has become the bread and butter because of the lax perimeter defense rules. Once you turn the corner on the pick and the defender can't touch you, it makes the game so much easier. Not too sure if his game would translate.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:00 AM
Curry revolutionized the current NBA. Deserves more credit in terms of overall NBA impact. Him, Allen Iverson, LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird.

One of these names does not belong.

I'm not sure how Iver revolutionized anything. All he did was show that a ball dominant player who can' shoot .400 consistently or play solid defense can score 30 points if you give him enough shots and the team won't win unless you put him in a REALLY weak conference and surround him with strong defenders.

If anything, Iverson demonstrated how the old guard was no longer relevant.

BKLYNpigeon
12-02-2017, 11:05 AM
This one NBA writer said, Lebron and Durant are "evolutionary talents." Steph Curry is a,"revolutionary talent."

Curry has changed the way the game is played. I haven't seen the league shift the style of play so dramatically since Shaq.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:07 AM
Wow. That's crazy. And he'll move up to at least sixth on this list by the end of the season, with a decent shot to even pass Korver for fifth. If he can at least hit 250 threes a season (something he's easily done each of the past five years), he'll pass Allen in four years. But I'm guessing he does it sooner than that. Also, because 3-point shooting isn't a skill that necessarily requires a ton of athleticism, there's really no reason why he can't continue a high volume (although maybe not quite as high) of 3-pointers as he gets into his mid-30s. Topping 4,000 is not out of the question if he stays healthy.

Looking at the all-time list via BBR, Harden and Thompson are also under-30 guys quickly making their way up the list, sitting at 27th and 30th, respectively. At the rate those two are going, making 250+ threes a season in recent years, it would not remotely be a shock for them to both pass Allen as well. If they continue that pace for six more seasons, they'll both be within 100 threes of Allen in six years.

Edit: Although not as prolific a 3-point shooter as the other guys mentioned, it's worth noting that Lebron is 26th on this list. Even though we don't think of him as a great 3-point shooter in his career, he's only like 430 threes away from No. 10 on the list, and he's on pace for the most 3-pointers in a season in his career by a mile. Harden and Thompson will pass him soon, and a lot of the guys ahead of him are still playing (albeit all in their mid-30s), but I think there's a strong possibility he cracks the top 10 on that list, too. By the time this guy retires, there will be very few career lists where he's not in the top 10.

Yeah... LBJ is just crazy.

The odd thing about that top-ten list is that it will be completely destroyed in the next 10 years. Some of the greatest shooters of all time will not be on that list because the era they played in didn't utilize their skill set.

It's a shame.

I thought the game had a fairly dramatic transformation from the post play of guys like Hakeem, Barkley, DRod, Malone and Ewing when Dr. J and then Jordan pushed the perimeter play, and the next generation followed suit (Kobe, Iverson, LBJ, Wade, Melo). But... we're looking at a shift akin to Wilt transforming the game.

That stats posted by guys this generation and following will be as incomparable to the 80's, 90's and 00's as the 80s/90s was to Wilt's era.

People will scoff at the notion that Allen and Miller were among the best shooters when they only got half as many 3's as guys like Curry, Thompson, and perhaps even Harden.

Completely different game. I wish guys like Stockton, Nash, Miller, Richmond, and Allen were all starting their careers with Curry. It would be a joy to watch what they could pull off in this environment.

BKLYNpigeon
12-02-2017, 11:12 AM
I'd say a lot of that credit goes to D'Antoni first and foremost, and analytics departments everywhere secondly.

Many people credit D'Antoni, but Don Nelson did it with the Bucks in the late 80's and with the Warriors with run TMC.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:12 AM
This one NBA writer said, Lebron and Durant are "evolutionary talents." Steph Curry is a,"revolutionary talent."

Curry has changed the way the game is played. I haven't seen the league shift the style of play so dramatically since Shaq.

I would say that the league didn't even really shift with Shaq. Shaq was a physical anomaly. Teams did pick up big guys just to throw at him in the playoffs, but they didn't change their style of play. It wasn't like everbody could just go out an sign a 7'2 guy who weigh 320.

But with Curry... he has OTHER PLAYERS changing their game. Leonard. A-God. LBJ. DMC. Anthony Davis. I mean... centers for crying out loud. These guys are going into the offseason, working on their 3-pt shot. Completely changing their game so they can keep up with him and the style of play he has ushered in. Players weren't doing that with Shaq. They were just trying to stop him from shooting .600 in the paint.

But Klay deserves credit here to. And Kerr. It wasn't just having him... if it was just Curry, teams would just guard him, but having Curry, and Klay, and Iggy, and Green and now KD spreading the floor: that makes it impossible to cover everybody. It's Kerr's system and having multiple 3-ballers that make this system feasible and effective.



It's like with Wilt. He was weight lifting; soon everybody was weightlifting, because if they didn't, he's decimate them.


Shaq was dominant, but he didn't transform the game. He just made sure other teams fill a couple of roster spots with guys like Oliver Miller so they'd have some bodies to throw at him, but it wasn't like they were playing those guys regular and running plays through them.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:14 AM
Many people credit D'Antoni, but Don Nelson did it with the Bucks in the late 80's and with the Warriors with run TMC.

Don Nelson didn't make it work. Rudy-T ran the system the way it should have been run With Don Nelson it was a gimic. With Rudy-T it was surgery. And he killed the best teams in the league with that system. The NBA just fawked him over by bringing the 3pt line in so they couldn't keep winning when MJ came back.

Nelson just showed how you could score a lot of points and still lose. I mean, the Nuggest had a similar style. Rudy-T showed how you could win championships.

That is what Pop used to win with TD after the Twin Towers were no more.

IndyRealist
12-02-2017, 11:15 AM
Yeah... LBJ is just crazy.

The odd thing about that top-ten list is that it will be completely destroyed in the next 10 years. Some of the greatest shooters of all time will not be on that list because the era they played in didn't utilize their skill set.

It's a shame.

I thought the game had a fairly dramatic transformation from the post play of guys like Hakeem, Barkley, DRod, Malone and Ewing when Dr. J and then Jordan pushed the perimeter play, and the next generation followed suit (Kobe, Iverson, LBJ, Wade, Melo). But... we're looking at a shift akin to Wilt transforming the game.

That stats posted by guys this generation and following will be as incomparable to the 80's, 90's and 00's as the 80s/90s was to Wilt's era.

People will scoff at the notion that Allen and Miller were among the best shooters when they only got half as many 3's as guys like Curry, Thompson, and perhaps even Harden.

Completely different game. I wish guys like Stockton, Nash, Miller, Richmond, and Allen were all starting their careers with Curry. It would be a joy to watch what they could pull off in this environment.

They'd all end up on the same team in this era lol

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:24 AM
They'd all end up on the same team in this era lol
lol

That might be true ;)

I would love to watch Stockton with Allen... especially if they had Duncan in the post. I mean. Hornecek was great (and he's another who would thrive in the current league), but Allen... that's be crazy.

BKLYNpigeon
12-02-2017, 12:30 PM
Don Nelson didn't make it work. Rudy-T ran the system the way it should have been run With Don Nelson it was a gimic. With Rudy-T it was surgery. And he killed the best teams in the league with that system. The NBA just fawked him over by bringing the 3pt line in so they couldn't keep winning when MJ came back.

Nelson just showed how you could score a lot of points and still lose. I mean, the Nuggest had a similar style. Rudy-T showed how you could win championships.

That is what Pop used to win with TD after the Twin Towers were no more.


The only teams that won playing that style, played Defense as well, Spurs and Warriors.

tredigs
12-02-2017, 02:21 PM
Don Nelson didn't make it work. Rudy-T ran the system the way it should have been run With Don Nelson it was a gimic. With Rudy-T it was surgery. And he killed the best teams in the league with that system. The NBA just fawked him over by bringing the 3pt line in so they couldn't keep winning when MJ came back.

Nelson just showed how you could score a lot of points and still lose. I mean, the Nuggest had a similar style. Rudy-T showed how you could win championships.

That is what Pop used to win with TD after the Twin Towers were no more.

Run TMC was a good team actually. May have been better if they had a GOAT level 2 way center (hint: he wasn't taking 3s) manning the court.

FlashBolt
12-02-2017, 03:18 PM
One of these names does not belong.

I'm not sure how Iver revolutionized anything. All he did was show that a ball dominant player who can' shoot .400 consistently or play solid defense can score 30 points if you give him enough shots and the team won't win unless you put him in a REALLY weak conference and surround him with strong defenders.

If anything, Iverson demonstrated how the old guard was no longer relevant.

The culture was changed by Iverson. You can look at many player's today and they'll name Iverson as one of their biggest influence. He definitely shaped the NBA in a large way. People started wearing sleeves, tattoos, and copied his swagger.

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 04:31 PM
Run TMC was a good team actually. May have been better if they had a GOAT level 2 way center (hint: he wasn't taking 3s) manning the court.

They were.

I could have forgiven Nelson for trading Richmond if he had drafted Mutumbo instead of Owens. That would have been a championship team. Frankly, Richmond was better than Mullins.

Oh.. what could have been.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 04:51 PM
They were.

I could have forgiven Nelson for trading Richmond if he had drafted Mutumbo instead of Owens. That would have been a championship team. Frankly, Richmond was better than Mullins.

Oh.. what could have been.

It's debatable if Richmond was better than Jeff Mullins. Chris Mullin was the best of them though.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 04:55 PM
Don Nelson didn't make it work. Rudy-T ran the system the way it should have been run With Don Nelson it was a gimic. With Rudy-T it was surgery. And he killed the best teams in the league with that system. The NBA just fawked him over by bringing the 3pt line in so they couldn't keep winning when MJ came back.

Nelson just showed how you could score a lot of points and still lose. I mean, the Nuggest had a similar style. Rudy-T showed how you could win championships.

That is what Pop used to win with TD after the Twin Towers were no more.

Nelson never had anyone CLOSE to TD or Hakeem. But since he was GM that was sort of his fault too ... but he did keep throwing assets at a solution unfortunately. Add to that that Nelson didn't really care about defense and was such an egomaniac he didn't ever really give a defensive minded coach to power he needed.

Heediot
12-02-2017, 05:10 PM
Nelson never had anyone CLOSE to TD or Hakeem. But since he was GM that was sort of his fault too ... but he did keep throwing assets at a solution unfortunately. Add to that that Nelson didn't really care about defense and was such an egomaniac he didn't ever really give a defensive minded coach to power he needed.

they had webber Tim Mullins sprewell and a young Billy Owens on the roster all at one point. he definitely should have consolidated for a rim protector at least.

lol, please
12-02-2017, 05:16 PM
Yeah... LBJ is just crazy.

The odd thing about that top-ten list is that it will be completely destroyed in the next 10 years. Some of the greatest shooters of all time will not be on that list because the era they played in didn't utilize their skill set.

It's a shame.

I thought the game had a fairly dramatic transformation from the post play of guys like Hakeem, Barkley, DRod, Malone and Ewing when Dr. J and then Jordan pushed the perimeter play, and the next generation followed suit (Kobe, Iverson, LBJ, Wade, Melo). But... we're looking at a shift akin to Wilt transforming the game.

That stats posted by guys this generation and following will be as incomparable to the 80's, 90's and 00's as the 80s/90s was to Wilt's era.

People will scoff at the notion that Allen and Miller were among the best shooters when they only got half as many 3's as guys like Curry, Thompson, and perhaps even Harden.

Completely different game. I wish guys like Stockton, Nash, Miller, Richmond, and Allen were all starting their careers with Curry. It would be a joy to watch what they could pull off in this environment.The only people that will scoff are those foolish enough to not consider context in such debates. You don't listen to those people.

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Scoots
12-02-2017, 07:35 PM
they had webber Tim Mullins sprewell and a young Billy Owens on the roster all at one point. he definitely should have consolidated for a rim protector at least.

Mullin (no s), Webber, Hardaway, Sprewell, and Owens were all on the roster at the same time, but Hardaway and Mullin were injured for that year ... Hardaway missed the whole year and Mullin wasn't Mullin with a series of issues. What could have been ... but with the vets injured there was nobody to be a buffer between Nelson and Webber, and Webber was terrified of earthquakes and hated being in the bay area where there are a lot of them. It was a mess, and I was so happy to get Webber that year.

LOb0
12-02-2017, 08:08 PM
No one ever hit 300 threes in a season.

Curry hit 402.

Heediot
12-02-2017, 08:12 PM
Mullin (no s), Webber, Hardaway, Sprewell, and Owens were all on the roster at the same time, but Hardaway and Mullin were injured for that year ... Hardaway missed the whole year and Mullin wasn't Mullin with a series of issues. What could have been ... but with the vets injured there was nobody to be a buffer between Nelson and Webber, and Webber was terrified of earthquakes and hated being in the bay area where there are a lot of them. It was a mess, and I was so happy to get Webber that year.

they had tyrone hill, who was a solid/good defender and dirty work big man. why did they trade him for a mid-first in 93? was it because of locker room issues, or was he due a big pay day and they didn't want to re-up? he seemed like the kind of presence down low they needed to balance out some of the other guys.

BKLYNpigeon
12-02-2017, 08:20 PM
No one ever hit 300 threes in a season.

Curry hit 402.

Harden is on pace to break it this year.

KnicksorBust
12-02-2017, 08:26 PM
He may have more but imo you can't compare a guy like Reggie Miller. Miller doesn't have the same level of ball handling/passing skills that Curry has right now. I just can't imagine Reggie Miller at the top of the key running a pick and roll and pulling up for the 3.

Reggie could at least shoot it as much as Klay who is a weak ball handler.

Pick N roll game has become the bread and butter because of the lax perimeter defense rules. Once you turn the corner on the pick and the defender can't touch you, it makes the game so much easier. Not too sure if his game would translate.

Your comparison to Klay is pretty good.

NFLAccess
12-02-2017, 10:26 PM
wow

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 10:35 PM
The culture was changed by Iverson. You can look at many player's today and they'll name Iverson as one of their biggest influence. He definitely shaped the NBA in a large way. People started wearing sleeves, tattoos, and copied his swagger.

That's not changing that game; that's just fashion trends. Only one guys in the league sports cornrows now. Guys have had tats for a while, they've just become more socially acceptable. That not an AI thing.

Guys like KD may have loved and grew up watching AI, but they don't model their games or their styles after him. Sure, he was ahead of the curve on some passing trends, but I don't see any argument for him changing the game the way Dr. J-to-Jordan did, or the way Bird did. He was the first guy to make the 3 effective. MJ followed in Dr. J's foot steps and shifted the league from the paint to the perimeter. Curry changed it from slashing/mid-range game to long-range. Wilt changed it all before them, pushing guys into the gym.


Magic changed the game in terms of challenging the convention of the archetypal positions.

I don't see anything AI did having a lasting impression other than the league implementing a dress code.

FlashBolt
12-02-2017, 11:17 PM
That's not changing that game; that's just fashion trends. Only one guys in the league sports cornrows now. Guys have had tats for a while, they've just become more socially acceptable. That not an AI thing.

Guys like KD may have loved and grew up watching AI, but they don't model their games or their styles after him. Sure, he was ahead of the curve on some passing trends, but I don't see any argument for him changing the game the way Dr. J-to-Jordan did, or the way Bird did. He was the first guy to make the 3 effective. MJ followed in Dr. J's foot steps and shifted the league from the paint to the perimeter. Curry changed it from slashing/mid-range game to long-range. Wilt changed it all before them, pushing guys into the gym.


Magic changed the game in terms of challenging the convention of the archetypal positions.

I don't see anything AI did having a lasting impression other than the league implementing a dress code.

*Overall impact in NBA.

I never stated his game changed it. But his personality, character, and influence remain one of the strongest in NBA history. Can't be debated. Don't take my word from it. Guys like CP3/Wade/LeBron are notable few who all have Iverson ranked as one of the top in terms of changing the culture of NBA.

tredigs
12-02-2017, 11:25 PM
And since the NBA started 25 years ago, FlashBolt obviously can't be debated on this topic.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 11:38 PM
they had tyrone hill, who was a solid/good defender and dirty work big man. why did they trade him for a mid-first in 93? was it because of locker room issues, or was he due a big pay day and they didn't want to re-up? he seemed like the kind of presence down low they needed to balance out some of the other guys.

He was a solid bench level guy with terrible hands and Nelson hated that Hill was a negative on offense.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 11:41 PM
Harden is on pace to break it this year.

If you mean he's on pace to break the record ... No, he's on a pace for 367.

nastynice
12-02-2017, 11:50 PM
Hardaway and Mullins were pretty good together

JasonJohnHorn
12-02-2017, 11:54 PM
Nelson never had anyone CLOSE to TD or Hakeem. But since he was GM that was sort of his fault too ... but he did keep throwing assets at a solution unfortunately. Add to that that Nelson didn't really care about defense and was such an egomaniac he didn't ever really give a defensive minded coach to power he needed.

Great observations here.

I love Run TMC: hated seeing Richmond traded, especially since he was younger than and better than Mullin, and Mullin could have gotten them a higher return.

Don Nelson had great elements about him, but he had huge blind spots that limited his potential as a coach and GM.

His ignorance of defense and general refusal to recognize its importance is the most obvious. But at the same time, he draft so many great talents. Richmond. Starks. Hardaway. Tyronne Hill. Gatling. Elie. Sprewell.

But then he trade Richmond. He trade a high first round pick for Lister.

I just felt like he was shooting dice half the time.

No patience. No respect for D.

JasonJohnHorn
12-03-2017, 08:22 AM
*Overall impact in NBA.

I never stated his game changed it. But his personality, character, and influence remain one of the strongest in NBA history. Can't be debated. Don't take my word from it. Guys like CP3/Wade/LeBron are notable few who all have Iverson ranked as one of the top in terms of changing the culture of NBA.

His game didn't change the league either. He was a high-usage, inefficient scorer. The only saving grace was that he was good a drawing fouls, and there were guys who were good at that before.

If anything, he killed that style of game. People started to move away from guys who averaged 30 points a game but needed over 30 possession to do it. I mean... the dude shot under .300 from the arc and under .400 for his FG percentage. Nobody is going to give a dude like that 30 possessions a game anymore.

And none of the guys you named, not one, plays like Iverson. LBJ is more like a hybrid of MJ and Magic, and he's made it clear on a number of occasions that MJ, not AI, was his inspiration (hence the 23 jersey). CP3 is a pass-first point guard who is a stellar defender. Doesn't sound like AI to me. Wade was from Chi-town. He idolized MJ growing up.

I've heard KD come out and praise AI, but he's got a game that s unique. Percentages like Bird, but athleticism and agility of a wing.


All his game did was kill the score-first point guard who put up impressive averages with horrendous percentages, like Steven Francis, and Marbury. GMs and coaches are falling for that $#!t ever again, thank god.

The only guys who people really compare Iverson to is Isiaih Thomas, and that's just because he's small. Thomas is a FAR better shooter than Iverson. He shot over .500 inside the arc last year, and almost .380 beyond. Iverson never put up percentages like that. He posted nearly 30ppg with less than 20 FGpg: Iverson needed like 25 to do that (though both got 7 or 8 points a game off of free throws).


Iverson was a great talent. A great ball handler. Great at beating people off the dribble and great at drawing fouls. But he wasn't a strong finisher (as demonstrated but his disgustingly low FG%), he wasn't a great shooter (far from it) and he was a liability on D.

He had swagger and impressive per-game averages because he played when GMs and coaches were still using the eye test and impressive with 30ppg without considering the context.

The only way he'd get minutes like that and that many shots now is if he was on a lottery team

But yeah.... guys wear sleeves now and Leonard has corn rows, so...

Heediot
12-03-2017, 08:33 AM
His game didn't change the league either. He was a high-usage, inefficient scorer. The only saving grace was that he was good a drawing fouls, and there were guys who were good at that before.

If anything, he killed that style of game. People started to move away from guys who averaged 30 points a game but needed over 30 possession to do it. I mean... the dude shot under .300 from the arc and under .400 for his FG percentage. Nobody is going to give a dude like that 30 possessions a game anymore.

And none of the guys you named, not one, plays like Iverson. LBJ is more like a hybrid of MJ and Magic, and he's made it clear on a number of occasions that MJ, not AI, was his inspiration (hence the 23 jersey). CP3 is a pass-first point guard who is a stellar defender. Doesn't sound like AI to me. Wade was from Chi-town. He idolized MJ growing up.

I've heard KD come out and praise AI, but he's got a game that s unique. Percentages like Bird, but athleticism and agility of a wing.


All his game did was kill the score-first point guard who put up impressive averages with horrendous percentages, like Steven Francis, and Marbury. GMs and coaches are falling for that $#!t ever again, thank god.

The only guys who people really compare Iverson to is Isiaih Thomas, and that's just because he's small. Thomas is a FAR better shooter than Iverson. He shot over .500 inside the arc last year, and almost .380 beyond. Iverson never put up percentages like that. He posted nearly 30ppg with less than 20 FGpg: Iverson needed like 25 to do that (though both got 7 or 8 points a game off of free throws).


Iverson was a great talent. A great ball handler. Great at beating people off the dribble and great at drawing fouls. But he wasn't a strong finisher (as demonstrated but his disgustingly low FG%), he wasn't a great shooter (far from it) and he was a liability on D.

He had swagger and impressive per-game averages because he played when GMs and coaches were still using the eye test and impressive with 30ppg without considering the context.

The only way he'd get minutes like that and that many shots now is if he was on a lottery team

But yeah.... guys wear sleeves now and Leonard has corn rows, so...

best post i read this week.

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 11:30 AM
His game didn't change the league either. He was a high-usage, inefficient scorer. The only saving grace was that he was good a drawing fouls, and there were guys who were good at that before.

If anything, he killed that style of game. People started to move away from guys who averaged 30 points a game but needed over 30 possession to do it. I mean... the dude shot under .300 from the arc and under .400 for his FG percentage. Nobody is going to give a dude like that 30 possessions a game anymore.

And none of the guys you named, not one, plays like Iverson. LBJ is more like a hybrid of MJ and Magic, and he's made it clear on a number of occasions that MJ, not AI, was his inspiration (hence the 23 jersey). CP3 is a pass-first point guard who is a stellar defender. Doesn't sound like AI to me. Wade was from Chi-town. He idolized MJ growing up.

I've heard KD come out and praise AI, but he's got a game that s unique. Percentages like Bird, but athleticism and agility of a wing.


All his game did was kill the score-first point guard who put up impressive averages with horrendous percentages, like Steven Francis, and Marbury. GMs and coaches are falling for that $#!t ever again, thank god.

The only guys who people really compare Iverson to is Isiaih Thomas, and that's just because he's small. Thomas is a FAR better shooter than Iverson. He shot over .500 inside the arc last year, and almost .380 beyond. Iverson never put up percentages like that. He posted nearly 30ppg with less than 20 FGpg: Iverson needed like 25 to do that (though both got 7 or 8 points a game off of free throws).


Iverson was a great talent. A great ball handler. Great at beating people off the dribble and great at drawing fouls. But he wasn't a strong finisher (as demonstrated but his disgustingly low FG%), he wasn't a great shooter (far from it) and he was a liability on D.

He had swagger and impressive per-game averages because he played when GMs and coaches were still using the eye test and impressive with 30ppg without considering the context.

The only way he'd get minutes like that and that many shots now is if he was on a lottery team

But yeah.... guys wear sleeves now and Leonard has corn rows, so...

Dude, I'm not talking about his game. I'm very anti-Allen Iverson so you're barking on the wrong tree. I'm telling you that many players today were heavily influenced by Allen Iverson's game and personality. LeBron James said AI was his second favorite player to watch. Shaq said he was one of the GOAT's talent. CP3 said AI changed the NBA culture more than any other player. I clearly said CULTURE. Redefine that for me, please. You're making it seem as if I am putting Allen Iverson in the same conversation of Jordan, LBJ, Curry, Kobe in terms of how great they were.. So stop, please. If you can't read a post correctly, don't bother typing paragraphs of something I never argued against.

nastynice
12-03-2017, 01:34 PM
His game didn't change the league either. He was a high-usage, inefficient scorer. The only saving grace was that he was good a drawing fouls, and there were guys who were good at that before.

If anything, he killed that style of game. People started to move away from guys who averaged 30 points a game but needed over 30 possession to do it. I mean... the dude shot under .300 from the arc and under .400 for his FG percentage. Nobody is going to give a dude like that 30 possessions a game anymore.

And none of the guys you named, not one, plays like Iverson. LBJ is more like a hybrid of MJ and Magic, and he's made it clear on a number of occasions that MJ, not AI, was his inspiration (hence the 23 jersey). CP3 is a pass-first point guard who is a stellar defender. Doesn't sound like AI to me. Wade was from Chi-town. He idolized MJ growing up.

I've heard KD come out and praise AI, but he's got a game that s unique. Percentages like Bird, but athleticism and agility of a wing.


All his game did was kill the score-first point guard who put up impressive averages with horrendous percentages, like Steven Francis, and Marbury. GMs and coaches are falling for that $#!t ever again, thank god.

The only guys who people really compare Iverson to is Isiaih Thomas, and that's just because he's small. Thomas is a FAR better shooter than Iverson. He shot over .500 inside the arc last year, and almost .380 beyond. Iverson never put up percentages like that. He posted nearly 30ppg with less than 20 FGpg: Iverson needed like 25 to do that (though both got 7 or 8 points a game off of free throws).


Iverson was a great talent. A great ball handler. Great at beating people off the dribble and great at drawing fouls. But he wasn't a strong finisher (as demonstrated but his disgustingly low FG%), he wasn't a great shooter (far from it) and he was a liability on D.

He had swagger and impressive per-game averages because he played when GMs and coaches were still using the eye test and impressive with 30ppg without considering the context.

The only way he'd get minutes like that and that many shots now is if he was on a lottery team

But yeah.... guys wear sleeves now and Leonard has corn rows, so...

Comparing shooting percentages is inaccurate. Centers now day shoot better than elite shooters from the BC era (before Curry).The hand check change how you attack the rim

lol, please
12-03-2017, 01:40 PM
I agree with flashbolt on this one. Iverson was inefficient and a chucker, but that's over the head of casual fans who make up the majority of the viewer base.

Iverson has definitely had an Influence on the NBA and NBA culture. The tattoo thing goes to Rodman though.

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Jamiecballer
12-03-2017, 02:55 PM
best post i read this week.

cosign. great post JJH

Scoots
12-03-2017, 03:42 PM
Comparing shooting percentages is inaccurate. Centers now day shoot better than elite shooters from the BC era (before Curry).The hand check change how you attack the rim

I have to assume you meant this as hyperbole right?

nastynice
12-03-2017, 03:54 PM
I agree with flashbolt on this one. Iverson was inefficient and a chucker, but that's over the head of casual fans who make up the majority of the viewer base.

Iverson has definitely had an Influence on the NBA and NBA culture. The tattoo thing goes to Rodman though.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

Kobe was a chucker too, but no one has an issue with him being on that list. I don't see why being a chucker automatically disqualifies someone from having influence on the game

nastynice
12-03-2017, 03:56 PM
I have to assume you meant this as hyperbole right?

I'm not entirely sure what hyperbole means, but there's no way you can compare fg% of wing players from the 90's to today, obviously people are shooting much better today

valade16
12-03-2017, 04:29 PM
I think a good distinction between Iverson and Curry in terms of how they changed things is Curry changed the game but Iverson changed the league, and guys like MJ changed both.

Iverson has a massive effect on the culture of the league. I also think we are understating the impact Iverson had in normalizing a small combo guard being your primary scorer, sonething that is very prevalent in the league today.

Scoots
12-03-2017, 05:27 PM
I'm not entirely sure what hyperbole means, but there's no way you can compare fg% of wing players from the 90's to today, obviously people are shooting much better today

I meant your statement that centers shoot better than elite shooters from 10 years ago and before ... There are no starting centers in the NBA that shoot better than Steve Kerr let alone the best ever

nastynice
12-03-2017, 06:38 PM
I meant your statement that centers shoot better than elite shooters from 10 years ago and before ... There are no starting centers in the NBA that shoot better than Steve Kerr let alone the best ever

Aren’t there some centers shooting in the high 30’s? Weren’t “shooters” back then in low to mid 30’s, like majerle, Miller, nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Kenny Smith, etc ?

I may be wrong, I didn’t look it up right now, but feel like I seen that.

I wouldn’t call them better shooters, but technically shooting at a higher clip cuz that’s just the game now

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 06:51 PM
I think a good distinction between Iverson and Curry in terms of how they changed things is Curry changed the game but Iverson changed the league, and guys like MJ changed both.

Iverson has a massive effect on the culture of the league. I also think we are understating the impact Iverson had in normalizing a small combo guard being your primary scorer, sonething that is very prevalent in the league today.

Yup. I'm not one to ever defend Allen Iverson but to say he wasn't a huge part of the NBA history is just a flat out lie. You can dislike his game and basketball junkies will. Advanced statistics and numbers aren't going to sit well with casual fans, though. But it's impossible to deny his impact on a cultural argument. You will rarely hear an NBA player talk bad about Iverson and that's because they admired his as a basketball figure. It's also silly to say that since no one plays like Iverson these days, he had no impact. Actually, Kyrie Irving DOES play like AI. A talented offensive scorer who plays PG but is actually a SG. Lillard as well. He's not really a PG in the literal sense. There was an article just a day ago saying how Drummond wanted to be like KD.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1/16722538/detroit-pistons-andre-drummond

That will never happen but it's that type of influence that players can sometimes have.

JasonJohnHorn
12-03-2017, 08:04 PM
Comparing shooting percentages is inaccurate. Centers now day shoot better than elite shooters from the BC era (before Curry).The hand check change how you attack the rim

Comparing AI and Thomas is not unfair. AI compared him himself. And comparing percentages is perfectly reasonable. Iverson's percentages were AWFUL for HIS ERA, or any era post 1970. You are talking about Iverson like we're comparing a dude from the 50s/60s like Cousy to John Stockton (who BEFORE Iverson was a point guard shooting over .500 inside the arc and .400 beyond it).

You are talking about a point guard, Allen Iverson, who has played THIS decade. There are guys in the league right now who played against Iverson in his prime. This is not some dude who played 50 years ago. He's played in this decade.

Now... what's unfair, is comparing PGs and Cs. I'll agree to that. I will agree that more centres can shoot, but if you think C's back in the day couldn't shoot, mid range or from down town, then you didn't see mid-range masters like Hakeem, Ewing, D-Rob, Kareem, and even guys like Mourning. Lot's of C's could shoot mid-range. And lots of C's had a three-point shot. Bill Laimbeer killed people on the high pick-and-roll when he would step out and drop a trey. Sam Perkins. Sabonis. There were fewer of them, but yeah...

But that comparison is weak. In the past, through the 80s and especially entering the 90's, guards were expected to shoot 3's. Maybe not as often, but I'm not comparing volume. I'm not saying Curry is better than Allene or Miller because he hit more threes in a season. That is a coaching shift in the league. But look at the percentages. PGs and SGs were expected to shoot threes in the 80s, 90s and 00s. C's were generally used in the paint.

Difference now? Everybody should be hitting 3s. So things have changes for the Cs, but not for the PGs. So YOUR comparison is the one that is inaccurate. But hey... who's counting.

JasonJohnHorn
12-03-2017, 08:16 PM
Dude, I'm not talking about his game. I'm very anti-Allen Iverson so you're barking on the wrong tree. I'm telling you that many players today were heavily influenced by Allen Iverson's game and personality. LeBron James said AI was his second favorite player to watch. Shaq said he was one of the GOAT's talent. CP3 said AI changed the NBA culture more than any other player. I clearly said CULTURE. Redefine that for me, please. You're making it seem as if I am putting Allen Iverson in the same conversation of Jordan, LBJ, Curry, Kobe in terms of how great they were.. So stop, please. If you can't read a post correctly, don't bother typing paragraphs of something I never argued against.

I wouldn't say AI redefined the culture either though. Only one dude in the league still wears corn rows. And AI wasn't the first to do that. That was a trend in hip-hop, which was a huge part of NBA culture long before AI got in. Players have often borrowed from hip-hop. Webber and the Fab Five took the baggy clothes into baggy shorts, which is still the dominant style in the league. Iverson wore corn rows, like a bunch of hip-hop dudes, other players followed suite: it was a fad that's gone. If you ask me, Webber had more impact on the culture. Sleeves are still popular. Sure. The sleeve was treatment for his bursitis. Give credit to his doctor for that. Or you know what... the 57-year-old lady at the factory where I used to work who had bursitis and was wearing the sleeve before Iverson. She was wearing those sleeve before it was cool.

Some people say he brought hip-hop into the NBA. Well... I mean.. Shaq had a hip-hop album before AI was even in the league. Webber was also a hip-hop guy that brought it into the game.

So yeah... guys wear sleeves and Leonard has corn rows. Iverson was about flash. He accessorized. Kids like that because it's more $#!t they can buy to look like their fav player. Give the Sixers trainer, Lenny Currier, credit for the sleeve though. It was his idea.

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 08:18 PM
I wouldn't say AI redefined the culture either though. Only one dude in the league still wears corn rows. And AI wasn't the first to do that. That was a trend in hip-hop, which was a huge part of NBA culture long before AI got in. Players have often borrowed from hip-hop. Webber and the Fab Five took the baggy clothes into baggy shorts, which is still the dominant style in the league. Iverson wore corn rows, like a bunch of hip-hop dudes, other players followed suite: it was a fad that's gone. If you ask me, Webber had more impact on the culture. Sleeves are still popular. Sure. The sleeve was treatment for his bursitis. Give credit to his doctor for that. Or you know what... the 57-year-old lady at the factory where I used to work who had bursitis and was wearing the sleeve before Iverson. She was wearing those sleeve before it was cool.

Some people say he brought hip-hop into the NBA. Well... I mean.. Shaq had a hip-hop album before AI was even in the league. Webber was also a hip-hop guy that brought it into the game.

So yeah... guys wear sleeves and Leonard has corn rows. Iverson was about flash. He accessorized. Kids like that because it's more $#!t they can buy to look like their fav player. Give the Sixers trainer, Lenny Currier, credit for the sleeve though. It was his idea.

And how many of those people wore arm sleeves because of that old lady? Lmao, you're wrong buddy but I'll just let that one go. It's not only MY opinion that he has had a huge impact in NBA culture.. it's actual NBA legends. So your opinion isn't valid when compared to those who are actually saying he influenced them. Btw, just remembered, I wonder why David Stern initiated the dress code rule... surely it had nothing to do with AI.

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 08:23 PM
Ben Simmons wanted cornrows because of Allen Iverson. BEN SIMMONS. So did CP3.

Billups: David Stern's dress code policy was done because of Allen Iverson.

But let's talk about the old lady you try to bring up, shall we.

valade16
12-03-2017, 09:41 PM
I wouldn't say AI redefined the culture either though. Only one dude in the league still wears corn rows. And AI wasn't the first to do that. That was a trend in hip-hop, which was a huge part of NBA culture long before AI got in. Players have often borrowed from hip-hop. Webber and the Fab Five took the baggy clothes into baggy shorts, which is still the dominant style in the league. Iverson wore corn rows, like a bunch of hip-hop dudes, other players followed suite: it was a fad that's gone. If you ask me, Webber had more impact on the culture. Sleeves are still popular. Sure. The sleeve was treatment for his bursitis. Give credit to his doctor for that. Or you know what... the 57-year-old lady at the factory where I used to work who had bursitis and was wearing the sleeve before Iverson. She was wearing those sleeve before it was cool.

Some people say he brought hip-hop into the NBA. Well... I mean.. Shaq had a hip-hop album before AI was even in the league. Webber was also a hip-hop guy that brought it into the game.

So yeah... guys wear sleeves and Leonard has corn rows. Iverson was about flash. He accessorized. Kids like that because it's more $#!t they can buy to look like their fav player. Give the Sixers trainer, Lenny Currier, credit for the sleeve though. It was his idea.

And you’d be dead wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find a basketball historian that doesn’t think think AI had a massive effect on the cultures of the NBA. A ton of players wear the arm sleeves now and EVERYONE was getting corn rows when he was there, including Tim Duncan. Think of that. Prior to AI, people with tattoos were considered freaks like Rodman, he laden it acceptable for superstars to be tatted up. He got the NBA to embrace hip hop culture including his lavish outfits before and after games that everyone still emulates to this day (in fact the NBA instituted the rule requiring suits in response to what AI started culturally).

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s just a fact AI drastically changes changed the culture of the NBA. I think there’s even a documentary on it.

lol, please
12-03-2017, 09:51 PM
And you’d be dead wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find a basketball historian that doesn’t think think AI had a massive effect on the cultures of the NBA. A ton of players wear the arm sleeves now and EVERYONE was getting corn rows when he was there, including Tim Duncan. Think of that. Prior to AI, people with tattoos were considered freaks like Rodman, he laden it acceptable for superstars to be tatted up. He got the NBA to embrace hip hop culture including his lavish outfits before and after games that everyone still emulates to this day (in fact the NBA instituted the rule requiring suits in response to what AI started culturally).

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s just a fact AI drastically changes changed the culture of the NBA. I think there’s even a documentary on it.:clap:

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ewing
12-03-2017, 10:21 PM
And you’d be dead wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find a basketball historian that doesn’t think think AI had a massive effect on the cultures of the NBA. A ton of players wear the arm sleeves now and EVERYONE was getting corn rows when he was there, including Tim Duncan. Think of that. Prior to AI, people with tattoos were considered freaks like Rodman, he laden it acceptable for superstars to be tatted up. He got the NBA to embrace hip hop culture including his lavish outfits before and after games that everyone still emulates to this day (in fact the NBA instituted the rule requiring suits in response to what AI started culturally).

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s just a fact AI drastically changes changed the culture of the NBA. I think there’s even a documentary on it.

So I guess he’s like Madonna or something?


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basch152
12-04-2017, 12:09 AM
And you’d be dead wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find a basketball historian that doesn’t think think AI had a massive effect on the cultures of the NBA. A ton of players wear the arm sleeves now and EVERYONE was getting corn rows when he was there, including Tim Duncan. Think of that. Prior to AI, people with tattoos were considered freaks like Rodman, he laden it acceptable for superstars to be tatted up. He got the NBA to embrace hip hop culture including his lavish outfits before and after games that everyone still emulates to this day (in fact the NBA instituted the rule requiring suits in response to what AI started culturally).

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s just a fact AI drastically changes changed the culture of the NBA. I think there’s even a documentary on it.

AI has had a large effect on nba culture, but you seruously think he has anything to do with the tattoo issue?

tattoos in general have become more acceptable the last 20 years, it had nothing to to with ai

valade16
12-04-2017, 01:08 AM
AI has had a large effect on nba culture, but you seruously think he has anything to do with the tattoo issue?

tattoos in general have become more acceptable the last 20 years, it had nothing to to with ai

Yes, he absolutely made it more acceptable for NBA players to get prominent tattoos, and gave other players the confidence to get them.

Was he the single, solitary reason for the proliferation of tattoos in the NBA? Of course not. But to say he had nothing to do with it is a revisionist history on par with the ending of Inglorious Basterds.

nastynice
12-04-2017, 02:06 AM
Comparing AI and Thomas is not unfair. AI compared him himself. And comparing percentages is perfectly reasonable. Iverson's percentages were AWFUL for HIS ERA, or any era post 1970. You are talking about Iverson like we're comparing a dude from the 50s/60s like Cousy to John Stockton (who BEFORE Iverson was a point guard shooting over .500 inside the arc and .400 beyond it).

You are talking about a point guard, Allen Iverson, who has played THIS decade. There are guys in the league right now who played against Iverson in his prime. This is not some dude who played 50 years ago. He's played in this decade.

Now... what's unfair, is comparing PGs and Cs. I'll agree to that. I will agree that more centres can shoot, but if you think C's back in the day couldn't shoot, mid range or from down town, then you didn't see mid-range masters like Hakeem, Ewing, D-Rob, Kareem, and even guys like Mourning. Lot's of C's could shoot mid-range. And lots of C's had a three-point shot. Bill Laimbeer killed people on the high pick-and-roll when he would step out and drop a trey. Sam Perkins. Sabonis. There were fewer of them, but yeah...

But that comparison is weak. In the past, through the 80s and especially entering the 90's, guards were expected to shoot 3's. Maybe not as often, but I'm not comparing volume. I'm not saying Curry is better than Allene or Miller because he hit more threes in a season. That is a coaching shift in the league. But look at the percentages. PGs and SGs were expected to shoot threes in the 80s, 90s and 00s. C's were generally used in the paint.

Difference now? Everybody should be hitting 3s. So things have changes for the Cs, but not for the PGs. So YOUR comparison is the one that is inaccurate. But hey... who's counting.

Haha, ok, comparing him to isiah and anyone from his era or before is cool. I just meant compared to now.

I know centers could shoot, but not from 3. Just the sheer number of 3’s teams take now, it’s just a diff game

nastynice
12-04-2017, 02:24 AM
Hardaway and Mullins were pretty good together

lmaoooo, oh god I just made myself laugh tears again

Jeffy25
12-04-2017, 02:49 AM
Comparing AI and Thomas is not unfair. AI compared him himself. And comparing percentages is perfectly reasonable. Iverson's percentages were AWFUL for HIS ERA, or any era post 1970. You are talking about Iverson like we're comparing a dude from the 50s/60s like Cousy to John Stockton (who BEFORE Iverson was a point guard shooting over .500 inside the arc and .400 beyond it).

You are talking about a point guard, Allen Iverson, who has played THIS decade. There are guys in the league right now who played against Iverson in his prime. This is not some dude who played 50 years ago. He's played in this decade.

Now... what's unfair, is comparing PGs and Cs. I'll agree to that. I will agree that more centres can shoot, but if you think C's back in the day couldn't shoot, mid range or from down town, then you didn't see mid-range masters like Hakeem, Ewing, D-Rob, Kareem, and even guys like Mourning. Lot's of C's could shoot mid-range. And lots of C's had a three-point shot. Bill Laimbeer killed people on the high pick-and-roll when he would step out and drop a trey. Sam Perkins. Sabonis. There were fewer of them, but yeah...

But that comparison is weak. In the past, through the 80s and especially entering the 90's, guards were expected to shoot 3's. Maybe not as often, but I'm not comparing volume. I'm not saying Curry is better than Allene or Miller because he hit more threes in a season. That is a coaching shift in the league. But look at the percentages. PGs and SGs were expected to shoot threes in the 80s, 90s and 00s. C's were generally used in the paint.

Difference now? Everybody should be hitting 3s. So things have changes for the Cs, but not for the PGs. So YOUR comparison is the one that is inaccurate. But hey... who's counting.

Throughout Iverson's career:

3 point - .313
2 point - .448


The league average throughout his career
3 point - .354
2 point - .461


It's not that guards were shooting .400/.500, but they were easily shooting better than Iverson was.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 12:49 PM
Throughout Iverson's career:

3 point - .313
2 point - .448


The league average throughout his career
3 point - .354
2 point - .461


It's not that guards were shooting .400/.500, but they were easily shooting better than Iverson was.

On the positive side of defending him, his teammates were below average offensively and so they needed Iverson to take most of those shots. For a 5'9 guard, he did better than most expected. On a factual perspective, he was just too inefficient.