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BKLYNpigeon
12-01-2017, 02:11 PM
You guys all Trashed the Otto Porter, Wiggans and Hardaway Jr. contracts. but it looks like they're paying it off.

Contracts for the older vets: Teague, Hill, Gallo, Holliday look like hot garbage.

FlashBolt
12-01-2017, 02:16 PM
That Wiggins contract sucks. He does nothing other than score. Plenty of guys could do that and also spread the floor. Wiggins can't shoot threes at all.

Giannis94
12-01-2017, 02:27 PM
I mean Hardaway's stats look average on paper. Porters look at minimum, of what you'd expect for a guy given that contract. Am I missing something here.

How about Olynk?

WaDe03
12-01-2017, 04:37 PM
Best: Wade for the vet minimum.

BKLYNpigeon
12-01-2017, 04:46 PM
Best: Wade for the vet minimum.

David West probably the best for the Vet Minimum.

Hawkeye15
12-01-2017, 04:47 PM
That Wiggins contract sucks. He does nothing other than score. Plenty of guys could do that and also spread the floor. Wiggins can't shoot threes at all.

right but it isn't unusual for small markets to pay out the nose for a Wiggins. Someone young, scores, shows potential, etc.

Not that I think it was a good deal, quite the opposite actually. Just saying it's very typical. To be fair, his defense is much better this year, but the dude still can't stretch the floor, rebound, or create at all. Nowhere near worth what he makes

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 05:02 PM
Otto Porter is the only one earning his money. Wiggins is a classically overpaid volume scorer who people don't realize hurts your team. Hardaway is massively overpaid hoping he'll get better. He hasn't this year.

The only guy that gets a pass is George Hill. He's not where he wanted to be, on a dysfunctional team, and making far less than he thought he would.

The best contracts this year are probably either the CJ Miles sign and trade or Tyreke Evans' 3.3M.

Giannis94
12-01-2017, 05:07 PM
Otto Porter is the only one earning his money. Wiggins is a classically overpaid volume scorer who people don't realize hurts your team. Hardaway is massively overpaid hoping he'll get better. He hasn't this year.

The only guy that gets a pass is George Hill. He's not where he wanted to be, on a dysfunctional team, and making far less than he thought he would.

The best contracts this year are probably either the CJ Miles sign and trade or Tyreke Evans' 3.3M.
How much was hill supposed to get? He got 3/51 or something, no? That's a ton of money, no?

WaDe03
12-01-2017, 05:47 PM
David West probably the best for the Vet Minimum.

He's nowhere near Wade.

Giannis94
12-01-2017, 06:14 PM
He's nowhere near Wade.
No bias, right?

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 06:19 PM
How much was hill supposed to get? He got 3/51 or something, no? That's a ton of money, no?

He was offered $80M, his agent turned it down. His agent got fired.

ewing
12-01-2017, 06:22 PM
No bias, right?

Wade is a lot better. Hardaway does the shimmy like antoni walker sometimes so he is the best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:24 PM
NBA forum is great for posters commenting on players they clearly dont watch full games on.

Hardaways RPM is like +8 or +9 through 21 games, and he was a major positive in the second half of last season for the Hawks. Hes just a winner coming into his prime. Hate on though.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:25 PM
**

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 06:26 PM
NBA forum is great for posters commenting on players they clearly dont watch full games on.

Hardaways RPM is like +8 or +9 through 21 games, and he was a major positive in the second half of last season for the Hawks. Hes just a winner coming into his prime. Hate on though.

It's also great for posters who don't understand how RPM works.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:26 PM
It's also great for posters who don't understand how RPM works.

You dont watch Knick games, sit down

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:27 PM
Wade is a lot better. Hardaway does the shimmy like antoni walker sometimes so he is the best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Best shimmy in the biz ;)

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 06:28 PM
You dont watch Knick games, sit down

You're on the main board, and don't know what you're talking about. So, I'll feel free to talk.

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 06:32 PM
Also, I'll wait for your explanation of how weighted priors affect the RPMs of multi-year players.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:37 PM
Also, I'll wait for your explanation of how weighted priors affect the RPMs of multi-year players.

https://media.giphy.com/media/yODVOeMxWBwBO/giphy.gif

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 06:41 PM
^^^ and yes this means I don't really understand what you mean; I'm not a crazy stat guy and I have other things to do other than live in that rabbit hole, but for the sake of my point, since I do watch every Knick game, and from my "limited" understanding of RPM, we perform better/outscore the opponent typically with THJ in the game, and he plays a large role in that from the eye test. I'm old school I guess so that's what I go by; I'm sure you have a far better grasp on all things analytics than I do.

That said THJ has impressed me this season. I was unsure about him from our earlier experience with him, and questioned the contract, but in hindsight I get why he got it. There are other Knicks who have atrocious contracts, Tim is not one of them imo.

WaDe03
12-01-2017, 06:42 PM
No bias, right?

Just common sense really.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2017, 07:03 PM
Best contracts:
James Harden, $181.2 million, five years: He was the MVP frontrunner on the third-best team in the league, even before Paul was healthy.
Tyreke Evans, $3.3 million: He's being paid like a vet minimum and playing like a borderline all-star.
Dewayne Dedmon, $12.3 million, two years: San Antonio really screwed up by not resigning this guy. He's a starting-caliber center at $6 million per season.
Jonathan Simmons, $13.3 million, three yeras: Same with Dedmon. Simmons is a starting-caliber shooting guard helping Orlando overachieve, and he's making about the same amount as a lottery pick.

Worst Contracts:
Jrue Holiday, $104 million, five years: Simply being on the court is an accomplishment for Holiday, but he's not even getting six assists per game, and is only shooting 27 percent from three.
Andrew Wiggins, $146.5 million, five years: Technically he's still overperforming on a rookie deal, but he's about to get paid huge while still being a bad defender who can't shoot.
Tim Hardaway Jr., $52 million, four years: He's not bad, but he's still just a glorified chucker overpaid by the Knicks.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 07:14 PM
Best contracts:
James Harden, $181.2 million, five years: He was the MVP frontrunner on the third-best team in the league, even before Paul was healthy.
Tyreke Evans, $3.3 million: He's being paid like a vet minimum and playing like a borderline all-star.
Dewayne Dedmon, $12.3 million, two years: San Antonio really screwed up by not resigning this guy. He's a starting-caliber center at $6 million per season.
Jonathan Simmons, $13.3 million, three yeras: Same with Dedmon. Simmons is a starting-caliber shooting guard helping Orlando overachieve, and he's making about the same amount as a lottery pick.

Worst Contracts:
Jrue Holiday, $104 million, five years: Simply being on the court is an accomplishment for Holiday, but he's not even getting six assists per game, and is only shooting 27 percent from three.
Andrew Wiggins, $146.5 million, five years: Technically he's still overperforming on a rookie deal, but he's about to get paid huge while still being a bad defender who can't shoot.
Tim Hardaway Jr., $52 million, four years: He's not bad, but he's still just a glorified chucker overpaid by the Knicks.

It's like 71 million actually, so that makes it better. Wait till we resign Ron Baker to a 5 year 60 mil deal ;)

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 07:41 PM
^^^ and yes this means I don't really understand what you mean; I'm not a crazy stat guy and I have other things to do other than live in that rabbit hole, but for the sake of my point, since I do watch every Knick game, and from my "limited" understanding of RPM, we perform better/outscore the opponent typically with THJ in the game, and he plays a large role in that from the eye test. I'm old school I guess so that's what I go by; I'm sure you have a far better grasp on all things analytics than I do.

That said THJ has impressed me this season. I was unsure about him from our earlier experience with him, and questioned the contract, but in hindsight I get why he got it. There are other Knicks who have atrocious contracts, Tim is not one of them imo.

I was wondering when someone was going to start posting gifs now that they're allowed.

Going strictly by eye test, I'll take your "I watch every Knicks game" evaluation over mine. But when you start factoring in everything else, I can't help but see him as much more than an average guard. I think you've benefited much more from Kanter and Courtney Lee than from Tim.

And I do watch some Knicks games. I very casually know Damyean Dotson.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 07:53 PM
I was wondering when someone was going to start posting gifs now that they're allowed.

Going strictly by eye test, I'll take your "I watch every Knicks game" evaluation over mine. But when you start factoring in everything else, I can't help but see him as much more than an average guard. I think you've benefited much more from Kanter and Courtney Lee than from Tim.

And I do watch some Knicks games. I very casually know Damyean Dotson.

haha well fair enough, I was just messin around with the gif - but I'm not an analytics expert by any means (although I have some understanding of them I'd say), but played ball all my life etc at decently competitive levels so I think I have a pretty good understanding of things (as well as watching every season for close to 30 years)

That said yes Kanter is a major factor for us - I've been pleasantly surprised by him as well; I didn't love that Melo deal initially (the return I mean) but in hindsight it looks like we really won that trade (which is weird to say as a Knicks fan considering we seemingly lost every trade of like the past 10-15 years).

Lee has been great for us this season, kind of a toss up as to whether he or THJ has helped us more. And Dotson looks potentially real solid.

Our biggest problem contract wise is obviously Noah - no solution there pretty much.

GiantsSwaGG
12-01-2017, 08:36 PM
Hardaway player better than I expected but I still hate that contract and he does chuck it a lot. Right now hes making them

More-Than-Most
12-01-2017, 08:39 PM
You dont watch Knick games, sit down

lol @ the watch games argument.

More-Than-Most
12-01-2017, 08:40 PM
^^^ and yes this means I don't really understand what you mean; I'm not a crazy stat guy and I have other things to do other than live in that rabbit hole, but for the sake of my point, since I do watch every Knick game, and from my "limited" understanding of RPM, we perform better/outscore the opponent typically with THJ in the game, and he plays a large role in that from the eye test. I'm old school I guess so that's what I go by; I'm sure you have a far better grasp on all things analytics than I do.

That said THJ has impressed me this season. I was unsure about him from our earlier experience with him, and questioned the contract, but in hindsight I get why he got it. There are other Knicks who have atrocious contracts, Tim is not one of them imo.

then why use a stat if you dont understand it? on top of that you are calling him a nerd for understanding a stat you brought to the table lol

More-Than-Most
12-01-2017, 08:42 PM
Hardaway player better than I expected but I still hate that contract and he does chuck it a lot. Right now hes making them

overpaying some is bad but for teams like the knicks etc its a must to help their young guys with growth.. Porz needed help and his growth is the end all be all and hardaway might help some with that.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 08:48 PM
lol @ the watch games argument.

You have to be one of the biggest clowns on this site, how does this argument not matter lol what a joke

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 08:49 PM
then why use a stat if you dont understand it? on top of that you are calling him a nerd for understanding a stat you brought to the table lol

I understand the stat genius. When you actually watch the games its not hard to see who impacts wins/helps you gain/hold leads. Your grasp of basic logic is questionable at best.

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 08:55 PM
I understand the stat genius. When you actually watch the games its not hard to see who impacts wins/helps you gain/hold leads. Your grasp of basic logic is questionable at best.

Except my question was specifically about why you can't use RPM the way you just did.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 09:07 PM
Except my question was specifically about why you can't use RPM the way you just did.

So lets break this down. When THJ is in the game, we typically outscore the other team by 8 or 9 points. Sure hes on the floor with KP & Kanter a lot, which Im guessing is your point, but he plays a lot of minutes in general and hes definitely on the floor with the bench unit as well pretty much every game (something youd know if you watched every Knicks game).

Hes one of our leading scorers, and although flawed defensively, hes not a sieve on that end either. He definitely passes less than Id like but there are also games where hell have 5 or 6 assists.

Is he an elite player? No. But hes not making 30 mil a year, hes making 17. Is he possibly slightly overpaid? Sure. But if wed offered him 13 or 14 mil a year instead of 17, maybe the Hawks match & we dont have him. Hes 25 and can effectively play the 2 or 3 for decent stretches. Were currently better than most fans & experts anticipated and hes absolutely a reason why. Any real Knicks fan who actually watches the team will likely tell you the same.

I dont know what else you want me to say. You guys have a better understanding of analytics than I do? Sure, very likely. Not my forte necessarily. But lets not act like +/- is quantum physics. The team performs better or worse with certain guys on the floor vs. other guys. Please explain what Im missing (and yes I get that the other players on the floor with whatever individual guy impacts the overall +/- of that guy). Thats not the end all be all either though.

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 09:33 PM
So lets break this down. When THJ is in the game, we typically outscore the other team by 8 or 9 points. Sure hes on the floor with KP & Kanter a lot, which Im guessing is your point, but he plays a lot of minutes in general and hes definitely on the floor with the bench unit as well pretty much every game (something youd know if you watched every Knicks game).

Hes one of our leading scorers, and although flawed defensively, hes not a sieve on that end either. He definitely passes less than Id like but there are also games where hell have 5 or 6 assists.

Is he an elite player? No. But hes not making 30 mil a year, hes making 17. Is he possibly slightly overpaid? Sure. But if wed offered him 13 or 14 mil a year instead of 17, maybe the Hawks match & we dont have him. Hes 25 and can effectively play the 2 or 3 for decent stretches. Were currently better than most fans & experts anticipated and hes absolutely a reason why. Any real Knicks fan who actually watches the team will likely tell you the same.

I dont know what else you want me to say. You guys have a better understanding of analytics than I do? Sure, very likely. Not my forte necessarily. But lets not act like +/- is quantum physics. The team performs better or worse with certain guys on the floor vs. other guys. Please explain what Im missing (and yes I get that the other players on the floor with whatever individual guy impacts the overall +/- of that guy). Thats not the end all be all either though.
tl;dr RPM does not tell you what happened, it tells you what it thinks will happen going forward. RPM is a forcasting tool, not explanatory. What you're referring to is +/-.

RPM is partially based on +/-, partially a boxscore metric. What I was referring to is that RPM uses weighted priors. Priors are previous data used to mitigate variances in the data. Essentially, if the last few year's numbers say one thing, and this year's numbers say something substantially different, RPM treats it as a fluke that will even itself out eventually. So for any non-rookie, the RPM number you see is modified by how they performed in years prior. Thus RPM never actually explains what happened THIS year, except for rookies because there is no prior. The fact that it uses weighted priors is another problem unrelated to this discussion.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 09:48 PM
tl;dr RPM does not tell you what happened, it tells you what it thinks will happen going forward. RPM is a forcasting tool, not explanatory. What you're referring to is +/-.

RPM is partially based on +/-, partially a boxscore metric. What I was referring to is that RPM uses weighted priors. Priors are previous data used to mitigate variances in the data. Essentially, if the last few year's numbers say one thing, and this year's numbers say something substantially different, RPM treats it as a fluke that will even itself out eventually. So for any non-rookie, the RPM number you see is modified by how they performed in years prior. Thus RPM never actually explains what happened THIS year, except for rookies because there is no prior. The fact that it uses weighted priors is another problem unrelated to this discussion.

Okay well then I misspoke from jump, so my mistake there. I was referring to +/-, which I thought was the same thing as RPM.

I still don't totally grasp what RPM is then, and that's fine, but what I'm referring to is the fact that when THJ is on the court, we outperform the opponent. I personally feel he individually helps us do that.

People were talking about that contract in the offseason like the Knicks were completely insane to sign him and he's a total bum when the reality is he's far from a bum. Sure maybe he's only worth like 12-14 mil a year in the current market vs. 17 but I believe that's at least debatable, and the fact that it's not entirely clear cut speaks to the fact that he actually is a pretty good wing.

IndyRealist
12-01-2017, 09:52 PM
Okay well then I misspoke from jump, so my mistake there. I was referring to +/-, which I thought was the same thing as RPM.

I still don't totally grasp what RPM is then, and that's fine, but what I'm referring to is the fact that when THJ is on the court, we outperform the opponent. I personally feel he individually helps us do that.

People were talking about that contract in the offseason like the Knicks were completely insane to sign him and he's a total bum when the reality is he's far from a bum. Sure maybe he's only worth like 12-14 mil a year in the current market vs. 17 but I believe that's at least debatable, and the fact that it's not entirely clear cut speaks to the fact that he actually is a pretty good wing.

I don't actually disagree with you. I think he's about average. Not below average, just average. All things being equal a team full of average players gets you 41-41, and you've got Kanter and KP on top of that. I think his pay reflects how much the Knicks think he will improve over the course of the contract. It just doesn't really reflect what he's doing right now.

HeartOfStarks
12-01-2017, 10:02 PM
I don't actually disagree with you. I think he's about average. Not below average, just average. All things being equal a team full of average players gets you 41-41, and you've got Kanter and KP on top of that. I think his pay reflects how much the Knicks think he will improve over the course of the contract. It just doesn't really reflect what he's doing right now.

I mean the reality is his pay also reflects what was available on the market and who was actually open to come play in NY. We haven't been the most attractive destination over the past 15+ years.

But we have KP, and if you don't at least attempt to put good young players around him that can actually help and show promise, what's his incentive to stay? It's better than doing nothing or spending 18 mil on George Hill, which supposedly Phil was ready to do (or Dion Waiters, who we were also reportedly close to signing). THJ in comparison is definitely not a bad signing imo. Might not be the best signing ever but again what exactly were we supposed to do? KP's extension isn't far off, have to show the guy something. Just my two cents.

FlashBolt
12-01-2017, 11:39 PM
A bunch of guys in NBA can play. They're there for a reason. Joe Harris is a prime example. He probably wouldn't get much minutes on a winning team (if any at all), but because he does get minutes, his production averages out. They can play but are they going to help your team win and contend? Not many guys can and will do that. You give the majority of NBA scrubs the ball for 25 minutes, no duh they will get some numbers.

FlashBolt
12-01-2017, 11:43 PM
I mean the reality is his pay also reflects what was available on the market and who was actually open to come play in NY. We haven't been the most attractive destination over the past 15+ years.

But we have KP, and if you don't at least attempt to put good young players around him that can actually help and show promise, what's his incentive to stay? It's better than doing nothing or spending 18 mil on George Hill, which supposedly Phil was ready to do (or Dion Waiters, who we were also reportedly close to signing). THJ in comparison is definitely not a bad signing imo. Might not be the best signing ever but again what exactly were we supposed to do? KP's extension isn't far off, have to show the guy something. Just my two cents.

You guys crippled yourself with contracts not many teams will want, though. You're never going to be able to get a high caliber player and I'm not sure you guys have what it takes to go through rebuilding stages at this point with KP coming into his own. I mean, THJ plays 34 minutes per game. His production is mainly to be a scorer. He's not exactly dominating games.

ewing
12-01-2017, 11:54 PM
You guys crippled yourself with contracts not many teams will want, though. You're never going to be able to get a high caliber player and I'm not sure you guys have what it takes to go through rebuilding stages at this point with KP coming into his own. I mean, THJ plays 34 minutes per game. His production is mainly to be a scorer. He's not exactly dominating games.

to his credit when he is playing well he is more then a scorer. He creates a lot of pace and he has actually been a decent play maker. that said i think he is an engery guy that seems hit or miss in the half court. He also doesn't seem to be a great decision maker when the game slows down. he is completely fearless though I think that is an asset. I don't think it is bad contract but he seems to be a guy that will hurt you certain nights. that's who he is. I am hopeful that the positives can out weigh the negatives. Spree was a knick that was like that well and while he was great every night on D and Timmy wont be able to do that sometimes positives out weigh negatives. sometimes they far out weigh them.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 12:17 AM
People online should never say "you all" because it's almost never true.

ewing
12-02-2017, 12:25 AM
People online should never say "you all" because it's almost never true.

should we say y'all instead?

HeartOfStarks
12-02-2017, 06:07 AM
You guys crippled yourself with contracts not many teams will want, though. You're never going to be able to get a high caliber player and I'm not sure you guys have what it takes to go through rebuilding stages at this point with KP coming into his own. I mean, THJ plays 34 minutes per game. His production is mainly to be a scorer. He's not exactly dominating games.

Our contract situation is certainly less than ideal but I wouldnt exactly call it crippling either. Outside of Noah most of our contracts are short rn, and Lee is only at 12.5 mil a year I believe (with 2 seasons after this one). Not great but not the worst either.

KP is a high caliber player, Frank looks like he could at worst be a high caliber defensive guard in the near future (if limited offensively, which he may improve on), maybe we get lucky in the draft. Teams like GS got gems in the late lotto & second round with Klay & Draymond; of course thats the rare exception but every team has to hope for some similar (even if at a much lesser level) luck at some point - I dont see us nabbing any great free agents any time soon but maybe KP is a bit of a draw for guys moving forward. All we can hope for.

Heediot
12-02-2017, 07:18 AM
You guys crippled yourself with contracts not many teams will want, though. You're never going to be able to get a high caliber player and I'm not sure you guys have what it takes to go through rebuilding stages at this point with KP coming into his own. I mean, THJ plays 34 minutes per game. His production is mainly to be a scorer. He's not exactly dominating games.

Kanter is playing better and his contract expires after next season. THJ contract can be moved. The bad one is Noah, but we've seen nasty contracts get moved, they'd probably have to attach a lotto pick for his *** to be picked up lol.

JAZZNC
12-02-2017, 12:20 PM
He was offered $80M, his agent turned it down. His agent got fired.

That's what I thought was hilarious when that idiot eDush kept saying the Jazz didn't try or want to resign Hill when we clearly offered him a better deal than he ended up getting. But screw Hill, he thought playing half a season and missing half the playoffs was worth a huge contract...have fun in Sacramento bud.

ewing
12-03-2017, 11:32 AM
Kanter is playing better and his contract expires after next season. THJ contract can be moved. The bad one is Noah, but we've seen nasty contracts get moved, they'd probably have to attach a lotto pick for his *** to be picked up lol.

My guess is Noah gets stretched though I could see him becoming a valuable backup to Kanter this year. Jeff clearly doesn't think Willy is good enough to be on the court and KOQ is who is he is (that guy aint developing). so why not give Noah some run if healthy? He isnt close to worth that contract but I still think he is an NBA player when healthy and may raise his value a little this year if Willy stays tied to the bench

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 11:38 AM
That's what I thought was hilarious when that idiot eDush kept saying the Jazz didn't try or want to resign Hill when we clearly offered him a better deal than he ended up getting. But screw Hill, he thought playing half a season and missing half the playoffs was worth a huge contract...have fun in Sacramento bud.

I had Hill on my fantasy team. Awesome when he played but he's always injured. I think the guy is best suited for a bench role at this point.

aman_13
12-03-2017, 05:58 PM
I don't blame anyone for misusing RPM. ESPN didn't do a great job explaining it.

IndyRealist
12-03-2017, 06:37 PM
I don't blame anyone for misusing RPM. ESPN didn't do a great job explaining it.

If they explained it in detail, like wrote a white sheet detailing every calculation with explanation, people still wouldn't read it. And people would still treat RPM like PER, because they're both ESPN. When RPM was released, literally all I did was google "what is RPM basketball stat" and worked from there. It's all publicly available.

aman_13
12-03-2017, 07:08 PM
If they explained it in detail, like wrote a white sheet detailing every calculation with explanation, people still wouldn't read it. And people would still treat RPM like PER, because they're both ESPN. When RPM was released, literally all I did was google "what is RPM basketball stat" and worked from there. It's all publicly available.

Yeah but ESPN released the stat so most people will go to their site to see what it means. Even though it's not a new stat.

I mean the ESPN article ranks at the top of google pages when searching RPM. They just don't explain it the way other sites do and they are not complicated explanations.

FlashBolt
12-03-2017, 08:38 PM
Does anyone know what happens to D.Rose's Adidas contract if the situation becomes that NBA teams don't want him? Does the contract end because of that or only if D.Rose chooses not to play?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-04-2017, 10:32 AM
Does anyone know what happens to D.Rose's Adidas contract if the situation becomes that NBA teams don't want him? Does the contract end because of that or only if D.Rose chooses not to play?

Some tweet said he loses $60M or $70M if he retired right now. That's when he stepped away from the Cavs for a little bit.

FlashBolt
12-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Some tweet said he loses $60M or $70M if he retired right now. That's when he stepped away from the Cavs for a little bit.

Right. If he chooses to retire, he loses that. What if he doesn't retire but no NBA teams sign him?

LA4life24/8
12-04-2017, 02:44 PM
Right. If he chooses to retire, he loses that. What if he doesn't retire but no NBA teams sign him?

Lmao. Good question cuz it looks like a legit possibility.

TylerSL
12-04-2017, 05:28 PM
Best contract of the offseason: Rudy Gay's two-year $17.2 million with the Spurs.
Worst contract of the offseason: Tie: Blake Griffin's five-year $173 million from the Clippers and Jrue Holiday's five-year $126 million from the Pelicans both deserve recognition.
Best contract since last year's NBA Finals: Dwyane Wade's one-year $2.3 million from the Cavaliers

ballislife72
12-04-2017, 10:50 PM
agreed - shimmy on

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2017/1113/dm_171113_NBA_Knicks_Hardaway_3_and_shimmy/dm_171113_NBA_Knicks_Hardaway_3_and_shimmy.jpg

hugepatsfan
12-05-2017, 08:24 AM
That's what I thought was hilarious when that idiot eDush kept saying the Jazz didn't try or want to resign Hill when we clearly offered him a better deal than he ended up getting. But screw Hill, he thought playing half a season and missing half the playoffs was worth a huge contract...have fun in Sacramento bud.

How dare he try to maximize his earning potential! What an ***!

Silly to get mad at him for that. Many people thought he could have beat that Utah offer and if he could he'd have every right to make the decision in his best interests. He misjudged the market as did many others and Utah had already moved on. It happens sometimes.

hugepatsfan
12-05-2017, 08:25 AM
My guess is Noah gets stretched though I could see him becoming a valuable backup to Kanter this year. Jeff clearly doesn't think Willy is good enough to be on the court and KOQ is who is he is (that guy aint developing). so why not give Noah some run if healthy? He isnt close to worth that contract but I still think he is an NBA player when healthy and may raise his value a little this year if Willy stays tied to the bench

What would be the point of stretching Noah honestly? Do you guys need the cap space? I'd think it makes sense to just get the contract off the books as soon as possible rather than stretch it on longer.

Heediot
12-05-2017, 08:36 AM
My guess is Noah gets stretched though I could see him becoming a valuable backup to Kanter this year. Jeff clearly doesn't think Willy is good enough to be on the court and KOQ is who is he is (that guy aint developing). so why not give Noah some run if healthy? He isnt close to worth that contract but I still think he is an NBA player when healthy and may raise his value a little this year if Willy stays tied to the bench

What happened to Wily and Kuz? They had promising seasons last year, was goinf full Hornacek up tempo the reason for them being less effective? I think Kuz was the odd man out with the redudancy of similar players, but Knicks fans were hyping up Wily lasy iirc.

ewing
12-05-2017, 10:40 AM
What happened to Wily and Kuz? They had promising seasons last year, was goinf full Hornacek up tempo the reason for them being less effective? I think Kuz was the odd man out with the redudancy of similar players, but Knicks fans were hyping up Wily lasy iirc.

Kuz was cut. He was a fun guy but I don't think he more then a very end of the bench guy. Willy is totally in the doghouse. The guy has great footwork but is particularly bad on D and Jeff has not seen him fit for PT. I really liked Willy's skill set. He does lack the toughness you want to see next to KP and has issues on D but I think he can be a player and would like to see him on the floor even if a Kanter/Noah split is what I think is best for the team right now.

IndyRealist
12-05-2017, 10:47 AM
Kuz was cut. He was a fun guy but I don't think he more then a very end of the bench guy. Willy is totally in the doghouse. The guy has great footwork but is particularly bad on D and Jeff has not seen him fit for PT. I really liked Willy's skill set. He does lack the toughness you want to see next to KP and has issues on D but I think he can be a player and would like to see him on the floor even if a Kanter/Noah split is what I think is best for the team right now.

Not O'Quinn tho? He's my choice as backup to Kanter long term.

WaDe03
12-05-2017, 11:48 AM
Kuz was cut. He was a fun guy but I don't think he more then a very end of the bench guy. Willy is totally in the doghouse. The guy has great footwork but is particularly bad on D and Jeff has not seen him fit for PT. I really liked Willy's skill set. He does lack the toughness you want to see next to KP and has issues on D but I think he can be a player and would like to see him on the floor even if a Kanter/Noah split is what I think is best for the team right now.

GiantSwagg wouldn't trade Willy and Frank for Kyrie.

WaDe03
12-05-2017, 11:49 AM
Best contract of the offseason: Rudy Gay's two-year $17.2 million with the Spurs.
Worst contract of the offseason: Tie: Blake Griffin's five-year $173 million from the Clippers and Jrue Holiday's five-year $126 million from the Pelicans both deserve recognition.
Best contract since last year's NBA Finals: Dwyane Wade's one-year $2.3 million from the Cavaliers

Wouldn't the best contract since the NBA finals be the best contract of the offseason?

ewing
12-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Not O'Quinn tho? He's my choice as backup to Kanter long term.

I dont mind KOQ. He is a decent 10-15 min a night guy. He isnt getting any better and we know what he is imo so if Noah is better right now (which wouldnt surprise me) Id got no problem with him getting the mins over KOQ


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Giannis94
12-05-2017, 11:23 PM
Embiid has to be one of the worst? Or highest risk?Not even joking.. Literally a fragile $148 lottery ticket

kobe4thewinbang
12-05-2017, 11:50 PM
You guys all Trashed the Otto Porter, Wiggans and Hardaway Jr. contracts. but it looks like they're paying it off.

Contracts for the older vets: Teague, Hill, Gallo, Holliday look like hot garbage.Teague is so bad that I am close to starting over him (I already play more minutes in the clutch) on NBA Live. I, as in my me as a rookie, lol.

Gallo is injury-prone. Hill has been a bit lost out there, and he even knows it. He went on record saying he's "working to be more effective." Lots of Kings fans feel their squad is underwhelming so far, even though I like Fox and Labissiere.

They are still bad contracts, even if the guys are playing somewhat okay. The Wiz are 12-11, and yet Porter has "more than half of his annual salary guaranteed." They also just paid Wall, so Wiz gotta be better.

Has Lowry looked good? Blake was doing alright until he got hurt by Rivers, lol.

kobe4thewinbang
12-05-2017, 11:51 PM
Otto Porter is the only one earning his money. Wiggins is a classically overpaid volume scorer who people don't realize hurts your team. Hardaway is massively overpaid hoping he'll get better. He hasn't this year.

The only guy that gets a pass is George Hill. He's not where he wanted to be, on a dysfunctional team, and making far less than he thought he would.

The best contracts this year are probably either the CJ Miles sign and trade or Tyreke Evans' 3.3M.Didn't know Vlade forced him to sign the dotted line...

kobe4thewinbang
12-05-2017, 11:58 PM
Best contract of the offseason: Rudy Gay's two-year $17.2 million with the Spurs.
Worst contract of the offseason: Tie: Blake Griffin's five-year $173 million from the Clippers and Jrue Holiday's five-year $126 million from the Pelicans both deserve recognition.
Best contract since last year's NBA Finals: Dwyane Wade's one-year $2.3 million from the CavaliersRudy's been balling. Wouldn't even know he got hurt, would ya? ^__^

kobe4thewinbang
12-05-2017, 11:59 PM
Embiid has to be one of the worst? Or highest risk?Not even joking.. Literally a fragile $148 lottery ticketDisagree. While I think it's a bad move overall and not wise, Phillie did manage to add a lot of intricacies to the deal that looks out for them if (likely when) Embiid gets hurt again. He's been balling so far, though, so they probably feel good so far.

TylerSL
12-06-2017, 02:14 AM
Wouldn't the best contract since the NBA finals be the best contract of the offseason?

I don't consider Wade's move to be an off-season move because his buy out was finalized after camp began. I consider the off-season over when media day opens camps across the league. That said, the signing of Wade at the minimum was the best contract given since last season ended so I felt it should be mentioned. Wade is still one of the 10 best SG in the league.

1. Harden
2. Klay
3. Butler
4. Beal
5. Derozan
6. Booker
7. Oladipo
8. McCollum
9. Wade
10. Bradley

Wade can only be, at best, the third best player on a championship level team in today's league, but to have him for the minimum is still insane. In 20 games off the bench for Cleveland, the Cavs are 15-5 and Wade is averaging 13/4/4 with 1 block and 1 steal/game. All while shooting .481 from the floor. Dwyane Wade can't bring it 48 minutes a night, but he's an elite player for the 23.6 minutes a night he plays.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 02:26 AM
I don't consider Wade's move to be an off-season move because his buy out was finalized after camp began. I consider the off-season over when media day opens camps across the league. That said, the signing of Wade at the minimum was the best contract given since last season ended so I felt it should be mentioned. Wade is still one of the 10 best SG in the league.

1. Harden
2. Klay
3. Butler
4. Beal
5. Derozan
6. Booker
7. Oladipo
8. McCollum
9. Wade
10. Bradley

Wade can only be, at best, the third best player on a championship level team in today's league, but to have him for the minimum is still insane. In 20 games off the bench for Cleveland, the Cavs are 15-5 and Wade is averaging 13/4/4 with 1 block and 1 steal/game. All while shooting .481 from the floor. Dwyane Wade can't bring it 48 minutes a night, but he's an elite player for the 23.6 minutes a night he plays.

I like Booker but he's putting up great numbers on a team that doesn't really care about winning or anything. They play zero defense and so Booker just scores and scores. There's not much value in that. If we're talking about having an impact on their team, I think Wade is easily top five this season. What he's been doing on that bench role has been nothing short of perfect. He knows when to take his shots, when to pass, and his defense has surprisingly looked very good. The amazing part also is how the Cavs somehow always find a way to stretch their lead with Wade leading that second unit. It's been helping LeBron so much knowing he can take a break without his team having to rush him back.

rimgrazers
12-08-2017, 04:33 AM
Maybe fix the spell checks in the title if you need a boost in legitimacy