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View Full Version : Are the lakers padding Lonzo balls assists?



More-Than-Most
11-20-2017, 09:00 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=490200


This is pretty insane... if you watch the highlights there is about 4 of his assists that shouldnt have been assists. Here is the video of his night and its glaring how he got credit for several assists after a player he passed to made a massive basketball move and its not the first time... They have gone back through a few games and it seems to be a common theme... Does other teams do this? Is this allowed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATOFMxivi0

More-Than-Most
11-20-2017, 09:01 PM
:laugh:

in the link it shows some of the assists he got credit for which just wow. The thing that mostly bothers me... I am a ball hater.... but there are actually people that are trying to find ways to blame him for this when this has 0 to do with him.... honestly its smart as **** if you are the lakers/knicks in that media markets... even if he didnt have a trip/doub giving him that assists that gave him one got him and the lakers so much media last night... totally worth.

Scoots
11-20-2017, 10:01 PM
Yes. It's happened before for other players.

Scoots
11-20-2017, 10:02 PM
Yes. It's happened before for other players.

A couple years ago the Warriors recorded 45 something assists against the Knicks and there were some very questionable ones counted.

kobe4thewinbang
11-20-2017, 10:05 PM
It only goes so far. When I'm watching a full game I see everything, so.

warfelg
11-20-2017, 10:52 PM
Yes. It's happened before for other players.

Yea. Kinda silly to single out one team. On the flip side, the way it was done kinda lead to an overhyped triple double.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-20-2017, 11:03 PM
Well he's been garbage. They need something to even it out.

Lakers + Giants
11-20-2017, 11:51 PM
The video shows one that is obvious, the last one to kuzma, that one clearly isn't an assist. I'd also argue about the penultimate one (to Lopez) not being an assist as well. That makes it 9 assist. So, are we really gonna complain about one assist not giving him a triple double? lmao.... cmon now. And if you think this doesn't happen with all teams then IDK what to say. Sure we might benefit more because of the media being all about Lonzo right now but this has been going on for a while now, just seems like youre reaching tbh.

aman_13
11-20-2017, 11:58 PM
Talk about being petty.

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 12:07 AM
MTM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7pTA72pcKk

Your boy Ben's triple double shows 2 assists that clearly weren't... tellin you, they do it all the time...

If you want to know which ones: @ 1:50 & 2:28

Storch
11-21-2017, 01:22 AM
Who cares

More-Than-Most
11-21-2017, 01:41 AM
MTM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7pTA72pcKk

Your boy Ben's triple double shows 2 assists that clearly weren't... tellin you, they do it all the time...

If you want to know which ones: @ 1:50 & 2:28

i 100 percent agree.. its pretty stupid. I was looking through bens and lonzo... Ben has like 3 or 4 that easily shouldnt be assists. I think this is pretty disgusting really. Triple/Doubles are cool but damn.

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 02:10 AM
i 100 percent agree.. its pretty stupid. I was looking through bens and lonzo... Ben has like 3 or 4 that easily shouldnt be assists. I think this is pretty disgusting really. Triple/Doubles are cool but damn.

Happens a lot tbh. It just gets magnified depending on the player.

Makes me wonder how accurate Big Os stats really are. My guess is that his stats are truly inflated af.

More-Than-Most
11-21-2017, 02:49 AM
Happens a lot tbh. It just gets magnified depending on the player.

Makes me wonder how accurate Big Os stats really are. My guess is that his stats are truly inflated af.

Makes me wonder about stats in general now... I thought the Official scorer went through the main league and not just the home teams guy... I never knew it.

aman_13
11-21-2017, 02:57 AM
This happens in the NHL as well.

HandsOnTheWheel
11-21-2017, 03:11 AM
Lonzo balls

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 04:23 AM
Makes me wonder about stats in general now... I thought the Official scorer went through the main league and not just the home teams guy... I never knew it.

Yup, I think it is basically the home team guy actually. I think baseball is the same, not 100% tho. But I've definitely seen errors go as hits a bunch of times, benefiting the hitter @ home and making stats look prettier.

Jamiecballer
11-21-2017, 09:13 AM
Makes me wonder about stats in general now... I thought the Official scorer went through the main league and not just the home teams guy... I never knew it.

holy **** dude, me too. honestly you just blew up any credibility i give to assist totals, or perhaps more accurately dropped a breadbox sized grain of salt on them...

what i want to know specifically, and this has nothing to do with Lonzo here, but did the official scorer rule those assists at the time or are there times when the record is changed when it becomes clear it could impact something like a triple double. i honestly think it would be extremely interesting to rewatch every thunder game from last season after, say, the mid way point in the season when the triple double watch become a big deal.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-21-2017, 10:08 AM
Could say the same for Dennis Rodman for rebounds. Bulls home games he'd record like 20+ rebounds. Away games lucky if he gets 12+ rebounds.

Yanks All Day
11-21-2017, 10:12 AM
It happens all the time. Similar to baseball where the home town score keeper will give questionable calls to the home batter as a hit, rather than a reach on error.

I think the NBA, and Lakers especially, have a vested interest in Lonzo Ball not being deemed a bust. Right now, he's certainly being acknowledged as overrated thus far. But it's widely acknowledged that he can pass at an extremely high level. If they can promote him as an exceptional passer/facilitator whose offense will catch up eventually, and if that argument can be aided by giving a few extra assists here and there, then it's going to happen. It's really not a big deal, considering it happens all the time across sports. But it is Lonzo Ball, so there will be a bigger deal made than most other players.

IndyRealist
11-21-2017, 10:28 AM
Lol I can't believe we blew so many people's minds with the stats keeper thing. Thought it was common knowledge. Like team rebounds not actually being rebounds.

Like I said in the next 15 yrs thread, I think SportVU is going to replace stats keepers sooner than later.

warfelg
11-21-2017, 10:36 AM
Lol I can't believe we blew so many people's minds with the stats keeper thing. Thought it was common knowledge. Like team rebounds not actually being rebounds.

Like I said in the next 15 yrs thread, I think SportVU is going to replace stats keepers sooner than later.

I think we’ll see stat/scoreboard operators be NBA league employees before we see SportVu do all of that.

Scoots
11-21-2017, 10:43 AM
Could say the same for Dennis Rodman for rebounds. Bulls home games he'd record like 20+ rebounds. Away games lucky if he gets 12+ rebounds.

I remember watching a Bulls home game and they counted every time he tipped a loose ball as a rebound whether he or another Bull got the ball.

Scoots
11-21-2017, 10:44 AM
Lol I can't believe we blew so many people's minds with the stats keeper thing. Thought it was common knowledge. Like team rebounds not actually being rebounds.

Like I said in the next 15 yrs thread, I think SportVU is going to replace stats keepers sooner than later.

Yeah, I thought it was known too. I've heard a bunch of play by play guys talk about questionable stat keeping.

LA4life24/8
11-21-2017, 10:49 AM
Yeah im sure its happened with a lot of players. I'll be watching games and they'll say so n so w the assist and im like? Da fuq how was that an assist lmao. Just like they count like every little tip as a rebound

Im sure as hell it happened quite a bit with westbrook last year. Esp the rebounding lol teammates would run away from the ball to let RW get the board.

Its not the players fault its the league. Stats sell, big stats sell more.

That's part of why i kinda believe a lot of players when they say "triple double dont matter, long as we get the W" or "idk what my stats were i just know we got that W" etc

LA4life24/8
11-21-2017, 10:50 AM
Also no one pads them stats like Ricky Davis..
Lmao 😂😂😂😂

Young$avage
11-21-2017, 11:01 AM
Also no one pads them stats like Ricky Davis..
Lmao 😂😂😂😂

Classic right there lol. Technically it WAS a rebound lol.

IndyRealist
11-21-2017, 12:12 PM
I think we’ll see stat/scoreboard operators be NBA league employees before we see SportVu do all of that.

Maybe out of the review center. I don't think the NBA wants employees spread out over all 29 arenas.

warfelg
11-21-2017, 12:19 PM
Maybe out of the review center. I don't think the NBA wants employees spread out over all 29 arenas.

I don’t think it would take that. At most we get what...10games a night? So have 20 people trained in this that travel around game to game.

IndyRealist
11-21-2017, 12:54 PM
I don’t think it would take that. At most we get what...10games a night? So have 20 people trained in this that travel around game to game.

I doubt stats keepers get paid enough to justify it being a traveling gig. That's why it's set up with he teams providing the staff now.

Sactown
11-21-2017, 01:05 PM
the league can make adjustments after the fact, IIRC Darren Collison had a 20+ assist game like 5 years ago and the league reviewed it and dropped it to like 18

LA4life24/8
11-21-2017, 01:07 PM
Classic right there lol. Technically it WAS a rebound lol.

Lmao yes it technically was can't deny that. Just frikkin hilarious though.

LA4life24/8
11-21-2017, 01:09 PM
Was gonna say tho doesnt the league review a lot of these games like the fouls tech's flagrants and what not? I'm betting they def did that night considering Joker and malone both got thrown out. But as long as it wasn't anything egregious they prolly just let it slide and only 1 maybe 2 were possibly not assists so they prolly just like whateva

aman_13
11-21-2017, 01:59 PM
Lol I can't believe we blew so many people's minds with the stats keeper thing. Thought it was common knowledge. Like team rebounds not actually being rebounds.

Like I said in the next 15 yrs thread, I think SportVU is going to replace stats keepers sooner than later.

Yeah i thought this was common knowledge as well. I've watched so many games where a player had got an assist that was questionable. Remember, it's not about how many dribbles it takes, it's about whether or not the pass leads to a direct basket.

Ishkabibble
11-21-2017, 02:03 PM
And if you think this doesn't happen with all teams then IDK what to say.
---------------------------------------------
Is that right? And you'll provide some evidence to prove this is the case?

Giannis94
11-21-2017, 03:53 PM
Saw thread title, checked poster, and then everything made sense.

smith&wesson
11-21-2017, 04:13 PM
It's sad that Lavar has made Lonzo the target that he now is. If there was no Lavar no one would be looking at this stuff.

How many times did WB get assists like this last year? I'm willing to bet 2 per home game average.

I'm not even a fan, I just think its ridiculous how this kid has to receive the back lash that he gets because of his loud mouth father.

FlashBolt
11-21-2017, 05:21 PM
It's sad that Lavar has made Lonzo the target that he now is. If there was no Lavar no one would be looking at this stuff.

How many times did WB get assists like this last year? I'm willing to bet 2 per home game average.

I'm not even a fan, I just think its ridiculous how this kid has to receive the back lash that he gets because of his loud mouth father.

A lot. But really, he was driving our offense at all times so most of the time without him, those plays wouldn't even exist. Lonzo is in a different situation, here. He's not even capable of scoring the ball so teams just play him solo and that's when Lonzo just makes a basic pass and poof, assist. Happens to everyone but this is why triple-doubles need to be put down to rest. It's a nice looking stat but a bit overrated in terms of ability.

warfelg
11-21-2017, 05:28 PM
There’s a good comfortable place between triple doubles being a big deal and triple doubles meaning nothing. I think the most empty part these days is the rebounding for a guard. 1) Increased threes means rebounds are going out further 2) Bigs are encouraged to let guards get the rebound and 3) bigs are encourage to tip out rebounds.

GREATNESS ONE
11-21-2017, 06:40 PM
Saw thread title, checked poster, and then everything made sense.

Yup, ya’ll both made troll threads but yours got closed.

GREATNESS ONE
11-21-2017, 06:48 PM
I feel you don’t think Lonzo drives the Lakers offense, you haven’t watched all the games. He has played poorly some games and good most games with a few sprinkled in awesome games. He’s developing, HE’S 20 YEARS OLD lol for only 3 or so weeks now.


You guys are acting like the triple double is some watered down stat and all the PG’s are grabbing rebounds like crazy because more 3pters. Well I guess that explains why there’s only 3 PG’s in the top 40 in rebounds per game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avgRebounds

But I’ll let you guys get back to your BALL Bustin.

LaVar Ball
11-21-2017, 07:06 PM
Nope.

If anything they’re holding him back. He should be averaging more assists!

LaVar Ball
11-21-2017, 07:06 PM
I feel you don’t think Lonzo drives the Lakers offense, you haven’t watched all the games. He has played poorly some games and good most games with a few sprinkled in awesome games. He’s developing, HE’S 20 YEARS OLD lol for only 3 or so weeks now.


You guys are acting like the triple double is some watered down stat and all the PG’s are grabbing rebounds like crazy because more 3pters. Well I guess that explains why there’s only 3 PG’s in the top 40 in rebounds per game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avgRebounds

But I’ll let you guys get back to your BALL Bustin.

Preach brotha!

More-Than-Most
11-21-2017, 07:23 PM
Saw thread title, checked poster, and then everything made sense.

it was the main topic on the site and the article IS FROM THIS SITE lol.

Giannis94
11-21-2017, 07:58 PM
it was the main topic on the site and the article IS FROM THIS SITE lol.

I know. But still. any Lonzo ball thread or post I just automatically it's you. It's like last year PSD had a title that said "Wilson out for year" so I put "According to PSD, Wilson out for year" and got in trouble.

Teeboy1487
11-21-2017, 09:10 PM
You new to the NBA? Happens a lot.

ldawg
11-21-2017, 09:36 PM
No i dont think his stats are padded. MMM they gave him a few but it happens all the time. Someone just focused on him. I bet you can find assist, walks, miss foul call on every player. Thing is hes is 6'6 and he has a nack for being in the right spot to get rebounds, As for his assist he passes almost everything he dont take many shots. Playing that many minutes and with his style of play passing and pushing the ball he will get assist. Like any other Rookie hes good at some things and terrible at some. Shooting and getting to the free throw line sticks out below average while his Passing and rebound is above average for his position. TOPG is average among pg. Even Russell avg 2.5 TOPG as a rookie. The league is full of politics most go unnoticed always have. Its just with modern technology like youtube, Tivo, smartphones, etc you get to rewind and critique. I predict he will pass magic in assist for a few reasons, 1 started younger, Magic had to retire early, faster pace more touches and his minutes up out the gate.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-21-2017, 09:48 PM
NBA is supposed to review the stats the home keeper records but we all know they barely do anything.

ldawg
11-21-2017, 09:53 PM
Lonzo biggest hurdles is his Dad mouth, his shooting bricks, being less stand off ish with his teammates and a few of his fans who think he invented basketball like his dad does. If he get by all that he can be a star in this league.

prodigy
11-24-2017, 02:53 PM
Lonzo's up to 31.5% shooting now after his best shooting performance of the season 4-8. he's turning it up.

prodigy
11-24-2017, 02:55 PM
NBA is supposed to review the stats the home keeper records but we all know they barely do anything.

I remember lebron losing a triple double when the NBA took an assist away. The NBA needs Lonzo to perform well though so they will help pad his stats if they can.

His own teammates give him rebounds so his boards are padded.

Sssmush
11-25-2017, 06:07 PM
Not specific to Lonzo possibly, but I notice that now suddenly that 3 point shooting efficiency is so high, that pretty standard passes 25 feet away from the basket are often called “assists.” This is clearly a different metric than in the past, or just that the game has changed has altered the value of the assist stat possibly.

Lonzo, perhaps to his credit, has kind of a flair to passing in 3-point country, where a standard pass has more mustard on it and kind a “yeeah shoot it bro” kind of energy that demands an assist. Even to the point the receiving player dumps the ball inside to the center or whatever and Lonzo’s expression in kinda like you cost me another assist dude. Or you missed the 3 you cost me another assist dude. Whereas top point guards maybe had a different assist mentality before possibly

mike_noodles
11-25-2017, 06:13 PM
Anytime that stat counting is subjective things like this will happen. Happens in baseball all the time with errors.

warfelg
11-25-2017, 06:29 PM
Not specific to Lonzo possibly, but I notice that now suddenly that 3 point shooting efficiency is so high, that pretty standard passes 25 feet away from the basket are often called “assists.” This is clearly a different metric than in the past, or just that the game has changed has altered the value of the assist stat possibly.

Lonzo, perhaps to his credit, has kind of a flair to passing in 3-point country, where a standard pass has more mustard on it and kind a “yeeah shoot it bro” kind of energy that demands an assist. Even to the point the receiving player dumps the ball inside to the center or whatever and Lonzo’s expression in kinda like you cost me another assist dude. Or you missed the 3 you cost me another assist dude. Whereas top point guards maybe had a different assist mentality before possibly

I think the main issue really is that, at least in the ones in question here, the pass is followed by a pumpfake, 2 dribbles, and a drive with a tough layup. Really an assist is any shot that comes after 0-3 passes and us uncontested and that's where the breakdown is.

And this isn't just against Lonzo specifically but the increased use in the 3 point shot has lead to more assists like this.

Sssmush
11-25-2017, 09:29 PM
I think the main issue really is that, at least in the ones in question here, the pass is followed by a pumpfake, 2 dribbles, and a drive with a tough layup. Really an assist is any shot that comes after 0-3 passes and us uncontested and that's where the breakdown is.

And this isn't just against Lonzo specifically but the increased use in the 3 point shot has lead to more assists like this.

Yeah I mean there are “assists” and there are “ ASSISTS” or dimes. So yeah the generously recorded assists... mostly outliers... ok yeah that is one thing. But just in general these latral passes behind the three point line counted as assists are a far cry from putting it in stride to an attacking player for a dunk or setting up an open ten footer. I mean I would get some assists if I brought the ball up every possession (assuming I could protect the ball), just vecause I toss it to Kuzma or Curry or whoever and they sink 28 footers with a hand in their face!!! If we akso count assists where the guy dances on the defender in 3 point land then maybe I would average ten assists because somebod gotta pass the ball and somebody gotta shoot. Like I could design an iffense so a ok pg avg 25 assists