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kdspurman
11-20-2017, 03:14 PM
Monday November 20th, 2017


http://i63.tinypic.com/2rr12c4.jpg

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 03:37 PM
Cavs with the #1 offense (115.3 ORtg) in the 4th quarter, and #12 defense (105.3 DRtg) in the 4th quarter. So the question is, how much will the Cavs be down before they turn it up in the 4th?

I say the Pistons are up by as much as 14 early in the 3rd, but Cavs come back and win by 2 points.

Lil Rhody
11-20-2017, 03:54 PM
Keep the streak alive


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FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 04:41 PM
Cavs with the #1 offense (115.3 ORtg) in the 4th quarter, and #12 defense (105.3 DRtg) in the 4th quarter. So the question is, how much will the Cavs be down before they turn it up in the 4th?

I say the Pistons are up by as much as 14 early in the 3rd, but Cavs come back and win by 2 points.

This is a terrible precadent to follow. It's like a double-edged sword for the Cavs particularly since they need that type of offense to win. They need to start the beginning and opening half better. With IT (who led the NBA in scoring in the 4th last season), they'll probably be able to squeeze some very close games out but really, they shouldn't have to. LeBron should be down to 34-35 minutes per game. And it shouldn't take Korver being inhuman in some of these games to win..

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 05:40 PM
This is a terrible precadent to follow. It's like a double-edged sword for the Cavs particularly since they need that type of offense to win. They need to start the beginning and opening half better. With IT (who led the NBA in scoring in the 4th last season), they'll probably be able to squeeze some very close games out but really, they shouldn't have to. LeBron should be down to 34-35 minutes per game. And it shouldn't take Korver being inhuman in some of these games to win..

I agree with everything except the last sentence. Korver isn't being inhuman at all. He's just being used more to close out games. He's shooting the same 3pt% as his career (.436 now, .431 career). Hell, Korver shot .486% last year with practically the same amount of 3PA as this year (5.7 last year, 5.9 this year). So he's actually shooting worse this year.

I think it's just easy to get caught up in the moments. People see that the Cavs are losing, and see a barrage of Korver 3-pointers and think it's abnormal, while ignoring all the open 3-pointers he bricked in the 1st and 3rd quarters that sorta contributed to the deficit in the first place (along with poor effort/defense). Box score watchers especially are probably perplexed or misguided right now with the Cavs. As you said, it's terrible how things are working right now and we can only hope things get better.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 07:28 PM
I agree with everything except the last sentence. Korver isn't being inhuman at all. He's just being used more to close out games. He's shooting the same 3pt% as his career (.436 now, .431 career). Hell, Korver shot .486% last year with practically the same amount of 3PA as this year (5.7 last year, 5.9 this year). So he's actually shooting worse this year.

I think it's just easy to get caught up in the moments. People see that the Cavs are losing, and see a barrage of Korver 3-pointers and think it's abnormal, while ignoring all the open 3-pointers he bricked in the 1st and 3rd quarters that sorta contributed to the deficit in the first place (along with poor effort/defense). Box score watchers especially are probably perplexed or misguided right now with the Cavs. As you said, it's terrible how things are working right now and we can only hope things get better.

Those are averages, though. I've seen some 4th quarter heroics from Korver that won the Cavs some games. You can't rely on that every game. I think it was the NYK game in which he drained 6 threes in the fourth. 20 points or something. That's not something that will happen every game.

basch152
11-20-2017, 08:36 PM
WOW.

this goddamn cavs-pistons game is exactly why i can't watch the ****ing NBA anymore.

they are calling some phantom *** calls in favor of the Cavs and it's making it unwatchable.

they tried to lob it to love, tolliver in defense wasn't even touching him, literally not touching him. the lob was WAY over thrown and was a turnover...except nope, phantom foul call.

archdevil84
11-20-2017, 08:52 PM
WOW.

this goddamn cavs-pistons game is exactly why i can't watch the ****ing NBA anymore.

they are calling some phantom *** calls in favor of the Cavs and it's making it unwatchable.

they tried to lob it to love, tolliver in defense wasn't even touching him, literally not touching him. the lob was WAY over thrown and was a turnover...except nope, phantom foul call.

that was 1 phantom foul. i didnt realy see any more then that 1 call

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 08:52 PM
LeBron is freaking dominating. Wow. Still the best player in the world.

archdevil84
11-20-2017, 08:52 PM
cavs defense actually looking solid out there for once

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 08:56 PM
Wade is a 2nd unit god, literally doing it all out there. I like this role for him at this stage and he's clearly the 3rd best player on the team, probably 2nd in terms of impact.

Cavs seem to be figuring it out.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 08:56 PM
LeBron is freaking dominating. Wow. Still the best player in the world.

Easily.

archdevil84
11-20-2017, 09:01 PM
Wade is a 2nd unit god, literally doing it all out there. I like this role for him at this stage and he's clearly the 3rd best player on the team, probably 2nd in terms of impact.

Cavs seem to be figuring it out.

so nice to see wade actually play for a good team instead of those useless bulls

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 09:04 PM
so nice to see wade actually play for a good team instead of those useless bulls

He actually looks like he cares out there now and has consistently been a big positive for the team. LeBron checks out and then Wade comes in as a mini LeBron doing it all, just not as good.

Sixers3Fan
11-20-2017, 09:08 PM
Sixers with the halftime lead. Weird half. No real tempo different atmosphere than Saturday night

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FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 09:20 PM
LeBron is freaking dominating. Wow. Still the best player in the world.

LeBron's best ability is how he's able to get others involved. He's passed to Crowder so many times despite Crowder missing everything. Did the same with Love. Also did the same for Jeff Green until Jeff Green became confident. Little things that he does really does go unnoticed.

archdevil84
11-20-2017, 09:27 PM
damn, thats the first time i ever hear commentators agree with a oposing team player complaining about a call. props to u pistons commentators!

archdevil84
11-20-2017, 09:31 PM
damn that pass to love, and what a finish!

Sixers3Fan
11-20-2017, 09:33 PM
Covington is playing so bad.

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 09:40 PM
Crowder is having his best game of the year, flat out. He's disrupting EVERYTHING on the perimeter for the Pistons. Our defense actually looks really good this game.

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 09:46 PM
Wade with the jumper.... BANG!

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 09:48 PM
Wade with the jumper.... BANG!

With Wade and the 2nd unit thriving with him as the backup PG, do you think Rose is out of the rotation when IT comes back?

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 09:49 PM
Finally they play Cedi... Nice to see a young body there actually hustling

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 09:54 PM
Frye has been good lately.

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 09:55 PM
Pistons on a b2b... they're looking really worn out. Schedule loss.

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 10:15 PM
With Wade and the 2nd unit thriving with him as the backup PG, do you think Rose is out of the rotation when IT comes back?

I hope so. We've been much better with Wade running things. He knows how to get others involved.

Sixers3Fan
11-20-2017, 10:15 PM
cheap shot on Embiid.

Sixers3Fan
11-20-2017, 10:16 PM
Now Embiid getting the last laugh. Getting the crowd into it now

More-Than-Most
11-20-2017, 10:26 PM
big ben took over and won us that game.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 10:30 PM
I hope so. We've been much better with Wade running things. He knows how to get others involved.

Wonder what Roses trade value is as a vet minimum contract? Maybe packaged with that BKN pick.

zn23
11-20-2017, 10:33 PM
Most complete game by the Cavs all year and King James only played 27 minutes.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 11:25 PM
The Thunder should be a lot better than this. I'm sure they will be.

WOwolfOL
11-20-2017, 11:37 PM
Mavs lead the C's by 10 with 5 minutes left lol

Saddletramp
11-20-2017, 11:45 PM
Man, Dirk gotta go.

kdspurman
11-20-2017, 11:47 PM
The Thunder should be a lot better than this. I'm sure they will be.

Did they blow another lead?

Saddletramp
11-20-2017, 11:48 PM
Did they blow another big lead?

Yeah, and Cousins got tossed for a blatant elbow to Westbrook.

Saddletramp
11-20-2017, 11:51 PM
Best team in the league and worst team in the league........overtime.

kdspurman
11-20-2017, 11:53 PM
Yeah, and Cousins got tossed for a blatant elbow to Westbrook.

Wow... Gotta think they'll figure it out, but I really don't know. Sometimes things don't work out as planned. Just gotta learn to execute better with a lead

Lakers + Giants
11-20-2017, 11:53 PM
Took Boston @ +220 in the 4th. Tempted to hedge, they can't possibly blow this comeback though right?!?!

Vee-Rex
11-20-2017, 11:54 PM
Took Boston @ +220 in the 4th. Tempted to hedge, they can't possibly blow this comeback though right?!?!

Uncle Drew in overtime means the end for Dallas. Don't hedge.

MELO 15
11-20-2017, 11:58 PM
My Knicks got the win! But on a side note, I'm watching the thunder right now, and Westbrook is up to his shenanigans again! This guy needs to be held accountable for these stupid shots that he's putting up, along with the way that he forces the issue to turn the ball over, and that falls on Donovan. Another thing that I observe is the way Donovan uses his rotation, the thunder have had 20 point leads in a lot of the games they play, but than Donovan goes with the ******** line up of (Patterson) who is a waste of space, time and money and hasn't done anything well since he has been on the thunder, Felton who I love, grant, who deserves more time with the starting unit, PG, and I forget. But my point is, that when he plays that unit, the double digits lead that the starters built is diminished and the opposing teams now take the lead, and what's crazy is Donovan just leaves that same group that lost the lead in the game watching this happen, trying to distribute the minutes for each player. Instead of realizing that the second unit needs to hit the pine and bring back the starters.
Donovan is an idiot of a coach that doesn't know how to be a situational coach, one that says bump the minutes let's build and maintain this lead.

The guys that deserve to be a part of the 8 man rotation should be Abrinus, Felton, and Grant. That's it, once you do that, u win more ball games

PAOboston
11-21-2017, 12:11 AM
47 pts on 16 of 22 shooting for Kyrie. Pretty decent stat line.

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Vee-Rex
11-21-2017, 12:13 AM
Uncle Drew in overtime means the end for Dallas. Don't hedge.

Uncle Drew with 10 points in OT while everyone else on the C's were bricking. Finished with 47 points in the game. The masked man took over.

When will he get his respect for what he's doing with this Boston team? When? Is Lowry still way better? Is Jeff Teague, George Hill, Ricky Rubio, MATTHEW DELEVADOVA better? These are all names I've heard people say were better.

corky831
11-21-2017, 12:22 AM
Kyries a ****ing stud. So is Jaylen and Tatum. Their best overall player is Horford though.

homie564
11-21-2017, 12:43 AM
Kyries a ****ing stud. So is Jaylen and Tatum. Their best overall player is Horford though.

If by best overall you mean most well rounded? Sure. Kyrie is by far their best player... hes absolutely unreal. Hes a superstar with transcendent offensive talent, and hes more than proving that this year (the defensive strides under Stevens have been astounding as well).

Jaylen Brown might be a top 30-40 player by the time the season is over if he continues this type of progression as well... this is without doing out a list but Id feel pretty good in saying hell be in that range...the fact that he only just turned 21 gives me chills lol


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kdspurman
11-21-2017, 12:49 AM
Took Boston @ +220 in the 4th. Tempted to hedge, they can't possibly blow this comeback though right?!?!

I got them when they were at +395.. Wish I took a chance when it was a +600 that it'd go into OT.

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 12:50 AM
I got them when they were at +395.. Wish I took a chance when it was a +600 that it'd go into OT.

Damn, nice. I saw it at +550 when they were down 10 in the 4th and was gonna drop more, decided to go against it haha.

ewing
11-21-2017, 01:12 AM
Uncle Drew with 10 points in OT while everyone else on the C's were bricking. Finished with 47 points in the game. The masked man took over.

When will he get his respect for what he's doing with this Boston team? When? Is Lowry still way better? Is Jeff Teague, George Hill, Ricky Rubio, MATTHEW DELEVADOVA better? These are all names I've heard people say were better.

LeBron did everything for him and Stevens did everything for IT. You'll see

ewing
11-21-2017, 01:16 AM
Kyries a ****ing stud. So is Jaylen and Tatum. Their best overall player is Horford though.

nice troll

ewing
11-21-2017, 01:23 AM
Btw Doug McDermot has been really good for the knicks on both sides of the ball. I thought he didn't play D.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2017, 02:32 AM
Wonder what Roses trade value is as a vet minimum contract? Maybe packaged with that BKN pick.

Naw, he has a useful roll to play. He'll be a matchup nightmare off the bench. Just chill. We don't need to do anything but grow and gel.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2017, 02:35 AM
Wonder what Roses trade value is as a vet minimum contract? Maybe packaged with that BKN pick.

Naw, he has a useful roll to play. He'll be a matchup nightmare off the bench. Just chill. We don't need to do anything but grow and gel. I agree they should package that pick with something, but I want to keep rose and get him the proper roll.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2017, 02:42 AM
Uncle Drew with 10 points in OT while everyone else on the C's were bricking. Finished with 47 points in the game. The masked man took over.

When will he get his respect for what he's doing with this Boston team? When? Is Lowry still way better? Is Jeff Teague, George Hill, Ricky Rubio, MATTHEW DELEVADOVA better? These are all names I've heard people say were better.

Just so sad that a guy like Ricky Rubio is above Kyrie for real for many on these boards.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2017, 02:44 AM
If by best overall you mean most well rounded? Sure. Kyrie is by far their best player... hes absolutely unreal. Hes a superstar with transcendent offensive talent, and hes more than proving that this year (the defensive strides under Stevens have been astounding as well).



Jaylen Brown might be a top 30-40 player by the time the season is over if he continues this type of progression as well... this is without doing out a list but Id feel pretty good in saying hell be in that range...the fact that he only just turned 21 gives me chills lol


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Probably already is

Heediot
11-21-2017, 05:26 AM
Uncle Drew with 10 points in OT while everyone else on the C's were bricking. Finished with 47 points in the game. The masked man took over.

When will he get his respect for what he's doing with this Boston team? When? Is Lowry still way better? Is Jeff Teague, George Hill, Ricky Rubio, MATTHEW DELEVADOVA better? These are all names I've heard people say were better.

I've always respected his ability in the clutch and to take over a game. Hardest player to stop 1 on 1.

Heediot
11-21-2017, 05:29 AM
Crowder is having his best game of the year, flat out. He's disrupting EVERYTHING on the perimeter for the Pistons. Our defense actually looks really good this game.

Cavs will turn it up when it matters and cake walk to the finals, although the C's might push it to 6 this year.

All these regular season concerns will be over-stated in the big picture. Same ish different year.

corky831
11-21-2017, 08:08 AM
nice troll

Not trolling at all. Kyrie has been unbelievable, but Horford has one of the best defensive ratings in the league, to go along with 14 ppg, 9 rpg, and 5 assists per contest, while shooting 43 percent from downtown. He's the glue of this squad.

JAZZNC
11-21-2017, 09:19 AM
cheap shot on Embiid.
That was a complete flop. I have no idea what he said to Mitchell but I liked that Mitchell wasn't gonna take that ****.

Sixers3Fan
11-21-2017, 09:44 AM
That was a complete flop. I have no idea what he said to Mitchell but I liked that Mitchell wasn't gonna take that ****.It wouldn't have been a flop if your guy didn't get up and put his hands on him. He got blocked, Embiid let him know about It and Mitchell couldn't take it.

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WaDe03
11-21-2017, 10:27 AM
Naw, he has a useful roll to play. He'll be a matchup nightmare off the bench. Just chill. We don't need to do anything but grow and gel. I agree they should package that pick with something, but I want to keep rose and get him the proper roll.

Why would you want him to **** up what the bench has going. Wade is scoring/playmaking great for that unit. Rose takes the ball out of his hands and doesn't playmake at all.

ewing
11-21-2017, 10:37 AM
Not trolling at all. Kyrie has been unbelievable, but Horford has one of the best defensive ratings in the league, to go along with 14 ppg, 9 rpg, and 5 assists per contest, while shooting 43 percent from downtown. He's the glue of this squad.

Should have stuck to my story. I swear you guys try so hard to be smart you just wind up saying dumb things


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kdspurman
11-21-2017, 10:48 AM
Damn, nice. I saw it at +550 when they were down 10 in the 4th and was gonna drop more, decided to go against it haha.

Hate when I do that lol :mad:

WaDe03
11-21-2017, 11:40 AM
Should have stuck to my story. I swear you guys try so hard to be smart you just wind up saying dumb things


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Advanced stats have ****ed people's heads up.

Giannis94
11-21-2017, 12:40 PM
lebron once again being passive-aggressive.

Earlier this year:


"Draymond's right," James told cleveland.com, after Green's comments were relayed to him. "We want to get those minutes down for sure. But as of right now, we've had two point guards out and we've had some different lineup changes, so, I've had to play more minutes than I would like, and more minutes than my teammates would like me to have."

James' minutes have been a frequent topic of discussion since his return to Cleveland four seasons ago. The 38.1 are the most he's played since 2010-11 -- his first year with the Miami Heat, when he logged 38.8 per night. But James' playing time spiked last season from the year before, up two full minutes to 37.8.







LeBron James has played 40 or more minutes in seven of the Cleveland Cavaliers' 17 games so far this season.

James and Tyronn Lue have defended his work load against criticism from media, fans and even rivals such as Draymond Green.

"Yeah, I hear about that all the time," Lue said. "I played with Michael Jordan when he was 39 he played 37 minutes a night. Karl Malone was 37, played 38 minutes a night, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Kobe. Everybody's built different. If you're one of the greats, sometimes you've got to play, sometimes you get rest like tonight."

James said after Monday's win: "You make so much a big thing about my minutes. It's not a huge issue. But at the end of the day, when we can get a win like this, everybody benefits from it. Not just me. Everybody."

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/11/tyronn_lue_is_tired_of_talking.html

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/11/lebron_james_agrees_with_draym.html

Vee-Rex
11-21-2017, 01:32 PM
lebron once again being passive-aggressive.

Earlier this year:







http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/11/tyronn_lue_is_tired_of_talking.html

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/11/lebron_james_agrees_with_draym.html

Sounds like he's just saying, "Yeah, I wanna get my minutes down, but it's not as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be."

And he's right - we want his minutes lower, but if you look at the way the media and fans (on these forums and other forums) are reacting, you'll see how they're making an enormous deal about it. Everyone's screaming about how LeBron is just gonna collapse, etc... generally though I think a lot of that is wishful thinking from his haters.

And Lue is right. The greats just get it done even with high minutes, and LeBron is probably the best physical specimen in NBA history.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2017, 02:37 PM
Why would you want him to **** up what the bench has going. Wade is scoring/playmaking great for that unit. Rose takes the ball out of his hands and doesn't playmake at all.

I don't want him to **** up the bench, I want a coach to use his almost unstoppable ability to drive to the hoop as a plus for the offense to give it another dimension. A coach should be able to integrate that eventually.

WaDe03
11-21-2017, 02:46 PM
I don't want him to **** up the bench, I want a coach to use his almost unstoppable ability to drive to the hoop as a plus for the offense to give it another dimension. A coach should be able to integrate that eventually.

I guess we'll see but he's had tunnel vision this year. Some are saying he's playing for his contract. Who's place on the bench does he take right now?

FlashBolt
11-21-2017, 05:40 PM
Kyrie hasn't been unbelievable. His team has been. If you want unbelievable, look at what Harden+LeBron have been doing..

kdspurman
11-21-2017, 06:39 PM
Only 1 game tonight..

Bulls @ Lakers
10:30PM
NBA TV

We can roll with this thread

warfelg
11-21-2017, 06:46 PM
Kyrie hasn't been unbelievable. His team has been. If you want unbelievable, look at what Harden+LeBron have been doing..

NBA radio was talking about it today (Isola and White Mamba most specifically). They were saying, basically "whoop dee doo" to his offense because we know and have seen that. They actually talked more about the defense and how he's doing these little things he hasn't done. Isola credited Stevens. Scalibrene said it was more hustle, and if he could do these things and didn't in Cleveland that it reflects quite poorly on Irving. But he admitted part of the issue there is coaching in Cleveland and did they ask him to do it. Scal added it doesn't hurt how the two teams are different in the approach of their matchups.

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 07:30 PM
Only 1 game tonight..

Bulls @ Lakers
10:30PM
NBA TV

We can roll with this thread

We deserve our own thread:cool:

tp13baby
11-21-2017, 08:17 PM
Advanced stats have ****ed people's heads up.

No as much as people who look at points per game as a tell all....

Lakers + Giants
11-21-2017, 08:35 PM
Line was @ -230, shouldve took it then... Dropped 250 on Lakers tonight, wish me luck everybody :laugh2:

-250 ML

kdspurman
11-21-2017, 11:04 PM
We deserve our own thread:cool:

:laugh2: you're probably right, it likely gets more pages than this one

WaDe03
11-21-2017, 11:38 PM
No as much as people who look at points per game as a tell all....

Ehhh idk, advanced stats have definitely screwed up the way the game is viewed. It's given people who don't really understand what goes into the game a sense of entitlement.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:33 AM
why does ball start????? this is a terrible bulls team and lonzo as usual is killing the lakers... He gets a ton of rebounds because he stands under the basket lol... which is fine since he is getting the rebounds but jesus christ he does nothing else... He is shooting them out of it again. They just boo him for shooting that final 3 lololol

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:34 AM
is robin lopez going to be a free agent? id ****ing love him to backup embiid... I love that dude so much.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:37 AM
lol they talking about it now... all ball is doing is touching and passing and sometimes he barely wants to touch it... he has no will to drive because of his lack of speed/step to get by someone to he settles for shots.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:39 AM
this isnt even fair to kuzma/ingram.... the bulls are basically playing 5 on 4 because they really arent even guarding ball and that really really hurts both those guys... ball needs to drive and get going before kuzma and ingram burn out from the carry so far this season.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 12:44 AM
why does ball start????? this is a terrible bulls team and lonzo as usual is killing the lakers... He gets a ton of rebounds because he stands under the basket lol... which is fine since he is getting the rebounds but jesus christ he does nothing else... He is shooting them out of it again. They just boo him for shooting that final 3 lololol

#trusttheprocess

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:48 AM
who is the white dude that looks like justin timberlake for the bulls lol

zn23
11-22-2017, 12:52 AM
King Lauri is having a rough shooting night.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 12:58 AM
big baller with the 3... he needs to hit a few more and the defense will try defending him and kuzma will explode

Chronz
11-22-2017, 01:10 AM
Ehhh idk, advanced stats have definitely screwed up the way the game is viewed. It's given people who don't really understand what goes into the game a sense of entitlement.

He's right, your complaints are even truer for those who ignore superior statistics. Still idk what you're talking about cuz a vote for horford is one built on watching the game more than anything.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:12 AM
ball to the bench-lakers making a run.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:16 AM
please bring ball back in... PLS

WaDe03
11-22-2017, 01:19 AM
He's right, your complaints are even truer for those who ignore superior statistics. Still idk what you're talking about cuz a vote for horford is one built on watching the game more than anything.

You can't watch a game and walk away thinking Horford is better.

tredigs
11-22-2017, 01:19 AM
ball to the bench-lakers making a run.
Lakers are down 3 and Ball is a -2 in the game. Calm down with this **** every night.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:20 AM
Lakers are down 3 and Ball is a -2 in the game. Calm down with this **** every night.

bulls were up 11 when he went to the bench and cut it to a 1 point lead... are you even watching the game or do you just follow plus/minus? because LOL

tredigs
11-22-2017, 01:22 AM
bulls were up 11 when he went to the bench and cut it to a 1 point lead... are you even watching the game or do you just follow plus/minus? because LOL

Yes, I am watching. What don't you get? They've been better with him on the floor than not and you're still doing your shtick because a run happened with him out.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:24 AM
Yes, I am watching. What don't you get? They've been better with him on the floor than not and you're still doing your shtick because a run happened with him out.

lol @them being better with him on the floor... Dont confuse plus/minus with actually being better

tredigs
11-22-2017, 01:27 AM
lol @them being better with him on the floor... Dont confuse plus/minus with actually being better
Don't confuse your eyes with having the least bit of objectivity concerning this kid. You have an obsession.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:28 AM
lakers tied it up... wow.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:30 AM
Don't confuse your eyes with having the least bit of objectivity concerning this kid. You have an obsession.

should I not be watching the bulls/lakers game and commenting on it??????? I guess I will watch another game... OH ****ING WAIT LOL... How about you tell me how he has been good tonight or has helped them tonight? They arent even defending him and kuzma and ingram are dealing with double defenders at time... On top of this he continues to shoot his team out of it only for them to go on a run when he sits... How about you add something to the topic instead of plus/minus lol

zn23
11-22-2017, 01:30 AM
It's time to put King Lauri back in the game...

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:32 AM
+
It's time to put King Lauri back in the game...


Stop we are being mean by watching the game and commenting.... his plus/minus is legit so he is clearly doing fine.

tredigs
11-22-2017, 01:34 AM
should I not be watching the bulls/lakers game and commenting on it??????? I guess I will watch another game... OH ****ING WAIT LOL... How about you tell me how he has been good tonight or has helped them tonight? They arent even defending him and kuzma and ingram are dealing with double defenders at time... On top of this he continues to shoot his team out of it only for them to go on a run when he sits... How about you add something to the topic instead of plus/minus lol

You're just a complete psycho with the kid. I have no intention of talking about his game or the Lakers with you other than to point out how tired it is.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 01:35 AM
should I not be watching the bulls/lakers game and commenting on it??????? I guess I will watch another game... OH ****ING WAIT LOL... How about you tell me how he has been good tonight or has helped them tonight? They arent even defending him and kuzma and ingram are dealing with double defenders at time... On top of this he continues to shoot his team out of it only for them to go on a run when he sits... How about you add something to the topic instead of plus/minus lol

I don't think you understand how plus/minus works, because if what you said was true then it would be reflected in it.

For example, the Bulls went on a huge run in the 2nd quarter while Ball was on the bench. This is why the plus/minus of these players aren't dwarfing Lonzo's despite the run they just made.

Your obsession is obvious. Take a week off of Lonzo Ball.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:45 AM
no plus/minus is forever a joke nomatter how it is used.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:46 AM
You're just a complete psycho with the kid. I have no intention of talking about his game or the Lakers with you other than to point out how tired it is.

because there is nothing you can add. He has been bad. You **** on ingram but try to talk up ball lol... just move along bruh nothing to see here.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:46 AM
great win by the lakers though.

Lakers + Giants
11-22-2017, 01:52 AM
Line was @ -230, shouldve took it then... Dropped 250 on Lakers tonight, wish me luck everybody :laugh2:

-250 ML

Easy Money Easy Life.... :ohno:

tredigs
11-22-2017, 01:54 AM
Easy Money Easy Life.... :ohno:

:laugh: hahah I was going to post basically the exact same thing for you. Nice hit LG.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 01:54 AM
no plus/minus is forever a joke nomatter how it is used.

Data is only as useful as the comprehension of the person who views it.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 01:55 AM
Easy Money Easy Life.... :ohno:

:laugh2: nice!

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 01:57 AM
Data is only as useful as the comprehension of the person who views it.

nono... its utterly a terrible metric

Lakers + Giants
11-22-2017, 01:59 AM
:laugh: hahah I was going to post basically the exact same thing for you. Nice hit LG.


:laugh2: nice!

Appreciate it fellas. :cheers:

IKnowHoops
11-22-2017, 02:04 AM
Yes, I am watching. What don't you get? They've been better with him on the floor than not and you're still doing your shtick because a run happened with him out.

Lol

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 02:05 AM
Lol

Exactly.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 02:16 AM
nono... its utterly a terrible metric

Right, you've proved my point. Plus/minus is not a metric. It is just simple, factual raw data.

No matter how much you may dislike it, the fact is that Lonzo Ball had the second highest plus/minus on the Lakers today. The Lakers were a +13 in his 32 minutes vs being a -4 in their 16 minutes with him on the bench. So if you try to claim that they played much better with him off the court than on tonight, well... it's just not true.

That data is factual and unlike the popular metrics used in advanced stats - like VORP, WS, PER, etc - there is no arbitrary formula behind it. Does that mean he was their second best player tonight? No, but that is not the information it gives so that's irrelevant.

Just because some people try to read more into some data it doesn't make that data terrible, only their comprehension of it.

IKnowHoops
11-22-2017, 02:19 AM
Exactly.

We are not on the same page my friend.
I was laughing cause I actually agree with Tre. Your doing your schtick. Simply because of a run. Buuuuuuuuuut! I am not annoyed by your schtick. I rather enjoy it and the back and forth that issues. Some of the best comedy I've read is from the PSD boards. We need to sticky a PSD "quotes" page so we can just laugh at some of these legendary one liners. Anyway, I need more cowbell MTM. As you were

IKnowHoops
11-22-2017, 02:26 AM
Every 19 year old not named Lebron is gonna pretty much suck in the NBA. Even this beast Gianni's was not really anything at all at 19. 3 years later he's arguably the best in the NBA. All 19 year olds suck in the NBA. It's a just a fact of life. The fact that he is here right now, getting triple doubles here and there is all I need to know. He's gonna be good...let his nuts drop before we destroy the kid on every play. MTM you giving him that "first year Lebron in Miami" hate.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 04:10 AM
Right, you've proved my point. Plus/minus is not a metric. It is just simple, factual raw data.

No matter how much you may dislike it, the fact is that Lonzo Ball had the second highest plus/minus on the Lakers today. The Lakers were a +13 in his 32 minutes vs being a -4 in their 16 minutes with him on the bench. So if you try to claim that they played much better with him off the court than on tonight, well... it's just not true.

That data is factual and unlike the popular metrics used in advanced stats - like VORP, WS, PER, etc - there is no arbitrary formula behind it. Does that mean he was their second best player tonight? No, but that is not the information it gives so that's irrelevant.

Just because some people try to read more into some data it doesn't make that data terrible, only their comprehension of it.

lol plus/minus. Nobody and I mean nobody says anything good about plus/minus but please continue. They literally talked about how terrible he was at halftime and post game and said how they went on a run when they sat him because all he was doing was chucking... He would come up the court and would get the ball and pass before it was in his hands for more than a second or 2... BUT YO 2ND HIGHEST PLUS/MINUS TONIGHT... 3 for 13 with 4 assists and some boards.... Plus/minus is where its at though.

Here from one of the lakers regular posters

Lonzo played like **** most of the game, and the big run that got the team back in the game came with Clarkson on the floor and ball on the bench.


Literally everything I said :shrug:

More-Than-Most
11-22-2017, 04:28 AM
Every 19 year old not named Lebron is gonna pretty much suck in the NBA. Even this beast Gianni's was not really anything at all at 19. 3 years later he's arguably the best in the NBA. All 19 year olds suck in the NBA. It's a just a fact of life. The fact that he is here right now, getting triple doubles here and there is all I need to know. He's gonna be good...let his nuts drop before we destroy the kid on every play. MTM you giving him that "first year Lebron in Miami" hate.

He could end up great... I doubt it but of course he could... I think he needs to fix his shot... I have no issues with the dudes vision either... When ingram or Kuzma have fantastic games this dude gets all the talk and hype and its annoying esp with how badly he has played. Sorry but if he is gonna get all the media hype/praise etc etc etc he needs to get the down talk when he is bad... It goes with the flow. He had like 3 good or great games this year... I praised him for all 3.

warfelg
11-22-2017, 09:52 AM
Using plus/minus alone, especially in game for a single game, is a joke.

IKnowHoops
11-22-2017, 11:09 AM
He could end up great... I doubt it but of course he could... I think he needs to fix his shot... I have no issues with the dudes vision either... When ingram or Kuzma have fantastic games this dude gets all the talk and hype and its annoying esp with how badly he has played. Sorry but if he is gonna get all the media hype/praise etc etc etc he needs to get the down talk when he is bad... It goes with the flow. He had like 3 good or great games this year... I praised him for all 3.

Fair. As I said, as you were

FlashBolt
11-22-2017, 11:10 AM
NBA radio was talking about it today (Isola and White Mamba most specifically). They were saying, basically "whoop dee doo" to his offense because we know and have seen that. They actually talked more about the defense and how he's doing these little things he hasn't done. Isola credited Stevens. Scalibrene said it was more hustle, and if he could do these things and didn't in Cleveland that it reflects quite poorly on Irving. But he admitted part of the issue there is coaching in Cleveland and did they ask him to do it. Scal added it doesn't hurt how the two teams are different in the approach of their matchups.

If the coach is the problem for Kyrie not wanting to play defense, I don't know what to say... defense is all hustle. You don't need a coach to tell you to fight through picks.

Vee-Rex
11-22-2017, 12:22 PM
Using plus/minus alone, especially in game for a single game, is a joke.

You'll get crucified on here for making such comments.

Giannis94
11-22-2017, 12:25 PM
We need to create a Lonzo ball sub-forum for MTM.

warfelg
11-22-2017, 12:56 PM
You'll get crucified on here for making such comments.

I know. Just the dumbest thing ever though.

tredigs
11-22-2017, 02:42 PM
Using plus/minus alone, especially in game for a single game, is a joke.

Clearly. If that was directed at me, my point was only to tell MTM and his nightly Lonzo freak-out to calm down with the idea that the Lakers simply fall apart with Lonzo on the floor, as again last night that simply was/is not the case. MTM saw a 5 minute run with Lonzo out and did his sweeping generalization simply because Ball was out (he only makes this conclusion in one direction mind you, not if the Lakers make a run with him in). Ball can't shoot and overall he sucks right now of course, but he has a good feel and is for the most part, playing a winning brand of basketball and likely making friends all over the floor with how often he's simply looking to set his teammates up for their own shot.

FlashBolt
11-22-2017, 03:30 PM
This is what happens when stat-geeks start throwing stats all over the place and the noobies with zero understanding tries to single out certain stats just to "prove" their case. I'm honestly tired of these stats. Just watching Lonzo play has been depressing. Really, it has. He's pushing the pace really well but other than that, everything else he does is becoming difficult for him. He's very lucky he's playing for the Lakers and they're being patient with him. Had this been any other team, they are benching Ball for Clarkson.

warfelg
11-22-2017, 04:13 PM
This is what happens when stat-geeks start throwing stats all over the place and the noobies with zero understanding tries to single out certain stats just to "prove" their case. I'm honestly tired of these stats. Just watching Lonzo play has been depressing. Really, it has. He's pushing the pace really well but other than that, everything else he does is becoming difficult for him. He's very lucky he's playing for the Lakers and they're being patient with him. Had this been any other team, they are benching Ball for Clarkson.

Whats interesting to me, in the uptempo the lean on Ball heavily. But when the game slows down they seem to be playing Clarkson/LCP on ball, slide Ball off and almost make him a 2-guard. Which is what UCLA did as well, and they got away with it because college teams have maybe one defender to take ball handlers. But in the NBA everyone can play on ball.

If I were coaching against the Lakers Rule #1 would be slow tempo. Rule #2 is if your man leaks you are going with him. Basically force them to now allow Ball to make plays and make him a poor shooting 2-guard. This is exactly what the Sixers did to him and it worked like gangbusters.

FlashBolt
11-22-2017, 04:22 PM
Whats interesting to me, in the uptempo the lean on Ball heavily. But when the game slows down they seem to be playing Clarkson/LCP on ball, slide Ball off and almost make him a 2-guard. Which is what UCLA did as well, and they got away with it because college teams have maybe one defender to take ball handlers. But in the NBA everyone can play on ball.

If I were coaching against the Lakers Rule #1 would be slow tempo. Rule #2 is if your man leaks you are going with him. Basically force them to now allow Ball to make plays and make him a poor shooting 2-guard. This is exactly what the Sixers did to him and it worked like gangbusters.

Ball's specialty comes from ball movement and running a fast paced game. That's where his passing becomes contagious. If you're going to play him on-ball and slow the game down, he's just going to force a terrible shot or let go of the ball and try to "get open" for a shot. You're right about the Clarkson insertion but I think that is by coincidence. They just don't know what they're going to do with Lonzo so they keep him there hoping for the best. I'm still laughing: Lavar said Lonzo is better than Curry. Sometimes I don't want to hate on Lonzo but his inability to play so far has made it quite satisfying. And it's also hilarious that Lavar is actually making Trump look like a good guy. If Trump had just shut his mouth and let Lavar be the one talking trash, Trump's image would have gone up BIGLY.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 05:42 PM
lol plus/minus. Nobody and I mean nobody says anything good about plus/minus but please continue. They literally talked about how terrible he was at halftime and post game and said how they went on a run when they sat him because all he was doing was chucking... He would come up the court and would get the ball and pass before it was in his hands for more than a second or 2... BUT YO 2ND HIGHEST PLUS/MINUS TONIGHT... 3 for 13 with 4 assists and some boards.... Plus/minus is where its at though.

Here from one of the lakers regular posters

Lonzo played like **** most of the game, and the big run that got the team back in the game came with Clarkson on the floor and ball on the bench.


Literally everything I said :shrug:

Nobody is saying he had a great game but to claim that the Lakers played much better with him off the court last night is beyond stupid.

Did the Lakers go on a run in the 3rd with him off? Yes, but the Bulls went on a run with him off in the 2nd which is why the Lakers were down so much to begin with. The Lakers also went on a huge run in the 4th when he came back in and ended up with a 9 point win. This is why he went from a -2 during that 3rd quarter run to a +14. It's not rocket science, it's as basic as it gets.

Is that easy enough for you to comprehend?

IKnowHoops
11-22-2017, 05:44 PM
Ball's specialty comes from ball movement and running a fast paced game. That's where his passing becomes contagious. If you're going to play him on-ball and slow the game down, he's just going to force a terrible shot or let go of the ball and try to "get open" for a shot. You're right about the Clarkson insertion but I think that is by coincidence. They just don't know what they're going to do with Lonzo so they keep him there hoping for the best. I'm still laughing: Lavar said Lonzo is better than Curry. Sometimes I don't want to hate on Lonzo but his inability to play so far has made it quite satisfying. And it's also hilarious that Lavar is actually making Trump look like a good guy. If Trump had just shut his mouth and let Lavar be the one talking trash, Trump's image would have gone up BIGLY.

Trumps image ain't going up because he can't shut his mouth, because he is Trump. Lavar will shut his mouth long before Trump will.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 05:46 PM
He could end up great... I doubt it but of course he could... I think he needs to fix his shot... I have no issues with the dudes vision either... When ingram or Kuzma have fantastic games this dude gets all the talk and hype and its annoying esp with how badly he has played. Sorry but if he is gonna get all the media hype/praise etc etc etc he needs to get the down talk when he is bad... It goes with the flow. He had like 3 good or great games this year... I praised him for all 3.

OK, this is clearly your problem with Lonzo. I get that, but do you not see the irony here? You give him by far more attention than anyone else on this board lol. It's like the people who hate LaVar Ball's shtick, yet they are clicking every article and watching every video to ***** about it.

Lonzo is a struggling rookie who is irrelevant. Stop bringing him up so much and he will be less of a topic.

FlashBolt
11-22-2017, 05:47 PM
Trumps image ain't going up because he can't shut his mouth, because he is Trump. Lavar will shut his mouth long before Trump will.

It went up when he got the boys out of that mess but then he screwed up by asking for a thank you. Like I said, if Trump just stopped bragging about it, his PR team would have done their job successfully. It's too bad he just doesn't know when to shut his mouth. And Lavar has been causing more trouble than he bargained for. He's not going to win a spitting contest against Trump when his son is out there playing like a damn fool.

FOXHOUND
11-22-2017, 05:47 PM
Using plus/minus alone, especially in game for a single game, is a joke.

If you are using it to try and say player X is good/bad? Yes, but that's not what that stat tells so those people just use it wrong.