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mrblisterdundee
11-20-2017, 12:02 AM
Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade all got four votes last round.
Who's better?
Voting last two days.

tredigs
11-20-2017, 01:11 AM
2 Time and unanimous MVP Steph Curry is better than all 3, and will have the more lasting legacy. Out of these 3? Dirk. 2013 made him a legend and the stats/accolades back it up.

KnicksorBust
11-20-2017, 12:27 PM
Accolades = out of 10 (MVPs, All-NBA teams, etc.)
Offensive Ability = out of 10
Defensive Ability = out of 8
Team Success = out of 8 (Postseason production included here)
Peak Production = out of 5
Longevity = out of 5
Era = out of 4

It adds up to 50 to keep it clean.

Karl Malone = 9+9+7+5+4+5+4 = 43
Dwyane Wade = 8+9+7+8+4+4+4 = 44
Dirk Nowitzki = 9+9+3+8+4+5+4 = 42

valade16
11-20-2017, 12:59 PM
2 Time and unanimous MVP Steph Curry is better than all 3, and will have the more lasting legacy. Out of these 3? Dirk. 2013 made him a legend and the stats/accolades back it up.

You have a good point, and I asked this in one of the threads, when do we start considering Curry.

If we go by accolades he is ahead of pretty much everyone left (and the last few who were picked) with 2 MVPs, 2 Championships, etc. If we go by peak performance he is again ahead with his 2016 season towering over everyone left. The only thing he's lacking is longevity but he is still playing and while we can't just assume he will eventually get longevity, to me there's a distinction between someone who doesn't have longevity because they simply didn't get it in their career and their career is over (or almost over) as opposed to haven't got it because they are mid-career.

Either way, you're a fool if you don't think Steph will get more accolades and titles given the Dubs. In time he will be moving up these lists and will have a chance at Top 10 when all is said and done.

JAZZNC
11-20-2017, 01:27 PM
Accolades = out of 10 (MVPs, All-NBA teams, etc.)
Offensive Ability = out of 10
Defensive Ability = out of 8
Team Success = out of 8 (Postseason production included here)
Peak Production = out of 5
Longevity = out of 5
Era = out of 4

It adds up to 50 to keep it clean.

Karl Malone = 9+9+7+5+4+5+4 = 43
Dwyane Wade = 8+9+7+8+4+4+4 = 44
Dirk Nowitzki = 9+9+3+8+4+5+4 = 42

Just a question, how in the world does Dirk have the same score in the longevity category as Malone? Current Dirk is getting the pass the last couple years of "he can play as long as he wants" while his teams are just terrible, meanwhile Malone was scoring 20ppg and taking his teams to the playoffs every single year in a stacked Western Conference. Those things aren't equal. I mean he's the oldest guy to ever have a triple double and put up a 30/10 playoff game. I know that people say longevity doesn't matter much in these types of conversations but many of these same people talk about what you can do to help win games or do for a winning team and Malone gave you a waaaay longer window of winning than Wade or Dirk. I know there are solid arguments to be made about peak or playoff performances (which is why I can't understand KG going before Dirk because his Finals run was epic) but am extra 5 or almost 10yrs of high level play has to matter (especially showing up every game). I dunno, sorry for the rant.

mightybosstone
11-20-2017, 02:27 PM
Just a question, how in the world does Dirk have the same score in the longevity category as Malone? Current Dirk is getting the pass the last couple years of "he can play as long as he wants" while his teams are just terrible, meanwhile Malone was scoring 20ppg and taking his teams to the playoffs every single year in a stacked Western Conference. Those things aren't equal. I mean he's the oldest guy to ever have a triple double and put up a 30/10 playoff game. I know that people say longevity doesn't matter much in these types of conversations but many of these same people talk about what you can do to help win games or do for a winning team and Malone gave you a waaaay longer window of winning than Wade or Dirk. I know there are solid arguments to be made about peak or playoff performances (which is why I can't understand KG going before Dirk because his Finals run was epic) but am extra 5 or almost 10yrs of high level play has to matter (especially showing up every game). I dunno, sorry for the rant.

In his defense, he's only grading longevity on a 1-5 scale, which doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room. Right now, Dirk is 8th all-time in games played and 6th all-time in career points. If that doesn't warrant a 5 out of 5, then I don't know what does. In terms of longevity, I don't know that I could find 10 players to rank ahead of Dirk. And if someone is in the top 10 of a category in the history of the league, how does that player not warrant a top score for that category?

If you complicated the grading system and could give Dirk a 4.8 or a 4.9, then I could see Malone getting the full 5 and warranting the higher score.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 02:30 PM
It's Wade but this place is too tied up in "longevity". How can you not pick the best player, who won the most rings? Also outplayed Dirk in both finals, does that not matter?

Curry isn't better than Wade lol

YAALREADYKNO
11-20-2017, 02:37 PM
#41 dirrrrrrrrrk nowitzkiiiiiiii!!!

mightybosstone
11-20-2017, 03:54 PM
It's Wade but this place is too tied up in "longevity". How can you not pick the best player, who won the most rings? Also outplayed Dirk in both finals, does that not matter?

Curry isn't better than Wade lol

If your argument for "best player" is peak production, then I could point to Dirk as the best player based on certain peak statistics, like WS and WS/48. "Best player" is totally subjective based on whatever barometers you're using. Also, you keep saying that Wade outplayed Dirk in both Finals, but it's not like they play the same positions or are regularly going head to head. Dirk's overall title run in 2011 is similar to Wade's postseason numbers from 2006, although I'd still give a slight edge to Wade.

I also don't think it's fair to just look at rings to judge these guys. Both guys won a single title as an alpha dog in incredible, memorable playoff runs. Wade also won two as a secondary piece, with that third ring coming when he posted some really underwhelming numbers in 2013. So I don't think he has some huge edge over Dirk in that category.

Bottom line, Dirk and Wade had similar peaks. Wade was probably a little better at his absolute best. But for Dirk's prime years, he was healthier and played at an elite level for a much longer period of time. He was also the central piece to a franchise that won 50+ games for 11 straight seasons, which would seem like a monumental accomplishment if he hadn't played in the same era as Pop and Duncan.

If you asked me to take one guy at his best for a pickup game, I'd take Wade by a hair. But if you're asking me who had the better career and deserves to be ranked higher in all-time ranking, I'm taking Dirk.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 04:28 PM
It's Wade but this place is too tied up in "longevity". How can you not pick the best player, who won the most rings? Also outplayed Dirk in both finals, does that not matter?

Curry isn't better than Wade lol

You act like Dirk doesn't win two rings at the same age Dwyane Wade won em with LeBron. You can't penalize a player for not having a better teammate(s). It's the same argument for LeBron over Kobe, no? We acknowledge Kobe just had Shaq and thus, we account for other parts of the game as well. Dirk over Wade is pretty self-explanatory. He revolutionized the PF position like no other. Largely repsonsible for the Mavs being a very good team for more than a decade, was MVP, one of the best scorers (certainly one of the big big men scorer). Wade's issue will always be his longevity. Sorry, that matters a lot. Winning two rings while playing behind LeBron is not going to convince me otherwise. Chris Bosh has two rings. No one in their right mind would ever bring that up against Dirk.. it means nothing as far as I am concerned. It's why I have Wade in my early 20's. Nothing wrong with that but his injuries along with coming into the league later than he should have by his own choice is why he isn't a few spots higher.

Redrum187
11-20-2017, 04:53 PM
Dirk has had noticeably less help his entire career compared to the other two. Playoff Dirk = God. What he did in 2011 will go down in history as one of the greatest performance in NBA history. What Wade and the crooked ref(s) that Tim Donaghy specifically called out in the 2006 NBA Finals will forever leave an asterisk on Wade. That isn't Wade's fault the ref(s) were crooked though... he just greatly benefited from them and makes his playoff run less prestigious in my eyes.

Having said all that, Dirk easily for me.

JAZZNC
11-20-2017, 06:20 PM
In his defense, he's only grading longevity on a 1-5 scale, which doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room. Right now, Dirk is 8th all-time in games played and 6th all-time in career points. If that doesn't warrant a 5 out of 5, then I don't know what does. In terms of longevity, I don't know that I could find 10 players to rank ahead of Dirk. And if someone is in the top 10 of a category in the history of the league, how does that player not warrant a top score for that category?

If you complicated the grading system and could give Dirk a 4.8 or a 4.9, then I could see Malone getting the full 5 and warranting the higher score.
That's certainly understandable, guess when you're comparing a guy who's top 2 or 3 in a given category nobody will compare even if they are pretty damn stout themselves. Even though I still feel like its a very big 0.2 difference haha!

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 08:51 PM
If your argument for "best player" is peak production, then I could point to Dirk as the best player based on certain peak statistics, like WS and WS/48. "Best player" is totally subjective based on whatever barometers you're using. Also, you keep saying that Wade outplayed Dirk in both Finals, but it's not like they play the same positions or are regularly going head to head. Dirk's overall title run in 2011 is similar to Wade's postseason numbers from 2006, although I'd still give a slight edge to Wade.

I also don't think it's fair to just look at rings to judge these guys. Both guys won a single title as an alpha dog in incredible, memorable playoff runs. Wade also won two as a secondary piece, with that third ring coming when he posted some really underwhelming numbers in 2013. So I don't think he has some huge edge over Dirk in that category.

Bottom line, Dirk and Wade had similar peaks. Wade was probably a little better at his absolute best. But for Dirk's prime years, he was healthier and played at an elite level for a much longer period of time. He was also the central piece to a franchise that won 50+ games for 11 straight seasons, which would seem like a monumental accomplishment if he hadn't played in the same era as Pop and Duncan.

If you asked me to take one guy at his best for a pickup game, I'd take Wade by a hair. But if you're asking me who had the better career and deserves to be ranked higher in all-time ranking, I'm taking Dirk.

Since Wade came in the league how many years has Dirk been the better player?

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 08:51 PM
You act like Dirk doesn't win two rings at the same age Dwyane Wade won em with LeBron. You can't penalize a player for not having a better teammate(s). It's the same argument for LeBron over Kobe, no? We acknowledge Kobe just had Shaq and thus, we account for other parts of the game as well. Dirk over Wade is pretty self-explanatory. He revolutionized the PF position like no other. Largely repsonsible for the Mavs being a very good team for more than a decade, was MVP, one of the best scorers (certainly one of the big big men scorer). Wade's issue will always be his longevity. Sorry, that matters a lot. Winning two rings while playing behind LeBron is not going to convince me otherwise. Chris Bosh has two rings. No one in their right mind would ever bring that up against Dirk.. it means nothing as far as I am concerned. It's why I have Wade in my early 20's. Nothing wrong with that but his injuries along with coming into the league later than he should have by his own choice is why he isn't a few spots higher.

You contradict yourself so much lol. You were saying Wade should be ahead of some of these guys that already went.

JAZZNC
11-20-2017, 08:56 PM
Dirk has had noticeably less help his entire career compared to the other two. Playoff Dirk = God. What he did in 2011 will go down in history as one of the greatest performance in NBA history. What Wade and the crooked ref(s) that Tim Donaghy specifically called out in the 2006 NBA Finals will forever leave an asterisk on Wade. That isn't Wade's fault the ref(s) were crooked though... he just greatly benefited from them and makes his playoff run less prestigious in my eyes.

Having said all that, Dirk easily for me.
I dunno about noticeably less help for his career. He had Nash (2 time MVP) and Finley, then he had a fist ballot hall of famer in Kidd(although on the back 9 of his career at that point), Terry who was absolutely at his best in that Finals run, DPOY in Chandler, and even JJ was pretty good in that Finals win. He has had plenty of help. He played on some pretty damn good teams. I don't feel like it was noteably worse than what Malone or Wade had.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 08:59 PM
Wade was surrounded by complete garbage for 3-4 years of his prime.

mightybosstone
11-20-2017, 09:09 PM
Since Wade came in the league how many years has Dirk been the better player?

I can say without too much hesitation that Dirk gets the edge in 03-04, 04-05, 06-07, 07-08, 13-14 and 15-16. That's six out of 14 seasons not including this year, which we'll call a wash because they're both terrible. And you could make a strong case for a few other years, particularly given Wade's injury history. But consider that Dirk played five seasons prior to Wade coming into the league, and that becomes more impressive.

I get what point you're trying to make, but when Dirk came into the league so much earlier than Wade did, it's not really a fair one.

mightybosstone
11-20-2017, 09:14 PM
Wade was surrounded by complete garbage for 3-4 years of his prime.

So? Dirk's teams won 50+ games in 11 straight seasons despite him never playing with another Hall of Fame caliber player at their peak. He got Nash pre-D'Antoni and a way-past-his-prime Kidd. Other than that, the best players he ever got to play with were guys like Michael Finley, Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse, Devin Harris and Jason Terry.

Wade got to play with Shaq, Lebron and Chris Bosh for a good chunk of his career.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 09:16 PM
You contradict yourself so much lol. You were saying Wade should be ahead of some of these guys that already went.

Okay, if I contradicted myself then prove it. I said Wade should be ahead of some of these guys but not over Dirk. So go ahead and find my contradictions.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 09:18 PM
Wade was surrounded by complete garbage for 3-4 years of his prime.

And he was surrounded by the best player in the NBA in years where his knees gave up and he had to take games off..

mrblisterdundee
11-20-2017, 09:19 PM
It's Wade but this place is too tied up in "longevity". How can you not pick the best player, who won the most rings? Also outplayed Dirk in both finals, does that not matter?
Curry isn't better than Wade lol

How can you ignore the context of those latter two rings (i.e. Wade riding along on that big, gregarious banana boat along with Bosh and later Allen)?
Wade had an incredible championship run in 2006, albeit supported by the best center in the league at the time in a fairly weak year. Then he couldn't get out of the first round (or into the playoffs) for the next four years until LeBron arrived. Then, despite having a clearly more talented team with Bosh and LeBron, Wade couldn't close things out against Dirk, 37-year-old Kidd and a bunch of other 30-somethings on one of the most underwhelming championship squads ever. How is that not a huge credit to Dirk, or at least a demerit to Wade?

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 09:21 PM
How can you ignore the context of those latter two rings (i.e. Wade riding along on that big, gregarious banana boat along with Bosh and later Allen)?
Wade had an incredible championship run in 2006, albeit supported by the best center in the league at the time in a fairly weak year. Then he couldn't get out of the first round (or into the playoffs) for the next four years until LeBron arrived. Then, despite having a clearly more talented team with Bosh and LeBron, Wade couldn't close things out against Dirk, 37-year-old Kidd and a bunch of other 30-somethings on one of the most underwhelming championship squads ever. How is that not a huge credit to Dirk, or at least a demerit to Wade?

To be fair, Dirk wasn't great that Finals. In either Finals, tbh. JET really stepped up. That and LeBron ultimate collapse. Him and Wade should be at four rings.

Redrum187
11-20-2017, 10:23 PM
I dunno about noticeably less help for his career. He had Nash (2 time MVP) and Finley, then he had a fist ballot hall of famer in Kidd(although on the back 9 of his career at that point), Terry who was absolutely at his best in that Finals run, DPOY in Chandler, and even JJ was pretty good in that Finals win. He has had plenty of help. He played on some pretty damn good teams. I don't feel like it was noteably worse than what Malone or Wade had.

Nash was pre-prime. Nash's last season was good, so we can say Dirk had one year of a top 50-100 player... Finley is a non-factor... He didn't suck, but he doesn't even crack the top 150 best players of all time. I think it's safe to say "noticeably" less help...

Yes, Dirk also had out of prime Kidd. That isn't to say Kidd sucked, but um... once again, pre and post prime players that helped Dirk. Why not mention Dirk had Marion? I mean, Marion was a 20/10 player... but wait, post prime again. He also had top 5 MVP vote getter Peja... oh wait... Peja was way passed his prime too... =/

Tyson Chandler was good for them as was Jason Terry, but these are not players of the same caliber that Wade and Malone has had to play with. It's simply unfair to list the likes of Finley, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and Tyson Chandler with Miami's big 3 and Malone having Stockton.

Redrum187
11-20-2017, 10:27 PM
To be fair, Dirk wasn't great that Finals. In either Finals, tbh. JET really stepped up. That and LeBron ultimate collapse. Him and Wade should be at four rings.

Dirk's collective 2011 performance was legendary. Did Dirk slow down in the Finals? Yes, and Terry absolutely did step up, but lets not pretend Dirk wasn't the reason Terry was able to shoot guns blazing. ALL THIS, without playing with a top player all time (or even an all star).

KnicksorBust
11-20-2017, 11:06 PM
Just a question, how in the world does Dirk have the same score in the longevity category as Malone? Current Dirk is getting the pass the last couple years of "he can play as long as he wants" while his teams are just terrible, meanwhile Malone was scoring 20ppg and taking his teams to the playoffs every single year in a stacked Western Conference. Those things aren't equal. I mean he's the oldest guy to ever have a triple double and put up a 30/10 playoff game. I know that people say longevity doesn't matter much in these types of conversations but many of these same people talk about what you can do to help win games or do for a winning team and Malone gave you a waaaay longer window of winning than Wade or Dirk. I know there are solid arguments to be made about peak or playoff performances (which is why I can't understand KG going before Dirk because his Finals run was epic) but am extra 5 or almost 10yrs of high level play has to matter (especially showing up every game). I dunno, sorry for the rant.

In his defense, he's only grading longevity on a 1-5 scale, which doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room. Right now, Dirk is 8th all-time in games played and 6th all-time in career points. If that doesn't warrant a 5 out of 5, then I don't know what does. In terms of longevity, I don't know that I could find 10 players to rank ahead of Dirk. And if someone is in the top 10 of a category in the history of the league, how does that player not warrant a top score for that category?

If you complicated the grading system and could give Dirk a 4.8 or a 4.9, then I could see Malone getting the full 5 and warranting the higher score.

Was gonna respond to the post that quotes me but MBT took care of it. If I wanted more scale flexibility I would probably double all my categories and make it out of 100. Mailman would be a perfect 10 in that longevity version but I still think I would give Dirk a 10 as well. Maybe a 9?

mrblisterdundee
11-21-2017, 12:50 AM
To be fair, Dirk wasn't great that Finals. In either Finals, tbh. JET really stepped up. That and LeBron ultimate collapse. Him and Wade should be at four rings.

Dirk averaged 26, 10 and 2 in the 2011 finals. He made 7.5 free throws per game, by far the best in the series, and went 45 of 46 from the line. I guess he didn't do exceptionally well from outside, but he didn't really need to. I would call that performance great.
And I wouldn't say LeBron collapsed so much as he just played average. And average LeBron was still probably the third-best player in that series. Bosh was probably fourth-best.

YAALREADYKNO
11-21-2017, 01:44 AM
Dirk literally transistioned from like 4 new teams around him and he led them all to the playoffs with 50+ wins in the west

Pre Prime Dirk
Nash/Finley/Van Exel/Bradley-WCF

1st half prime Dirk
Terry/Howard/Harris/Dampier-NBA FINALS

2nd half prime Dirk
Terry/Kidd/Marion/Chandler-NBA CHAMPS

Post prime Dirk
Ellis/parsons/Carter/Haywood-Playoffs

FlashBolt
11-21-2017, 05:13 PM
Dirk averaged 26, 10 and 2 in the 2011 finals. He made 7.5 free throws per game, by far the best in the series, and went 45 of 46 from the line. I guess he didn't do exceptionally well from outside, but he didn't really need to. I would call that performance great.
And I wouldn't say LeBron collapsed so much as he just played average. And average LeBron was still probably the third-best player in that series. Bosh was probably fourth-best.

He shot 42% from the field so way more inefficient than average. LeBron's collapse was why Mavs won and I'm sticking to that.

WaDe03
11-21-2017, 05:28 PM
If the balk would've been in Wades hands every possession of the 4th instead of switching between him and LeBron then the Heat would've won. LeBron should've just been slashing. If you want to see collapse look at his 4th quarter numbers that series.

Giannis94
11-21-2017, 08:16 PM
Wade was never the best player on the championship team. Shaq, then bron.

WaDe03
11-21-2017, 11:35 PM
Wade was never the best player on the championship team. Shaq, then bron.

Lmfao! He was far better than Shaq, you're probably to young to remember 2006 though.

WaDe03
11-22-2017, 11:55 AM
I can say without too much hesitation that Dirk gets the edge in 03-04, 04-05, 06-07, 07-08, 13-14 and 15-16. That's six out of 14 seasons not including this year, which we'll call a wash because they're both terrible. And you could make a strong case for a few other years, particularly given Wade's injury history. But consider that Dirk played five seasons prior to Wade coming into the league, and that becomes more impressive.

I get what point you're trying to make, but when Dirk came into the league so much earlier than Wade did, it's not really a fair one.

03-04: Dirk
04-05: Wade (already leading his team to the ECF)
05-06: Wade easily
06-07: Wade he was running away with the MVP 50 games in, he was the better player
07-08: Dirk Wade was playing through injury when he shouldn't have
08-09: Wade not even close
09-10: Wade
10-11: Wade
11-12: Wade
12-13: Wade
13-14: Dirk
14-15: Wade
15-16: Wade he was a top 10 player in the playoffs, clutchest player until elimination
16-17: Wade
17-18: Wade starting to flourish in his new role, definitely not terrible.

So Dirk was better 3 of the 15 years Wade was in the league. I think we're viewing it different, you're viewing by things like availability, which is very important for sure but for example.....06-07 Wade was a much better player through 50 games but I assume you give Dirk the edge due to Wades injury. If it was 2007 and you made a list of the best players, you would have Wade in your top 3 and above Dirk. The year KD was out all year he was still a better player than Harden, Harden was just available.

Giannis94
11-22-2017, 12:28 PM
Lmfao! He was far better than Shaq, you're probably to young to remember 2006 though.

do you even watch basketball?

WaDe03
11-22-2017, 12:34 PM
do you even watch basketball?

How in the world was Shaq better than Wade in 06? Shaqs averages in the 06 finals were about as bad as his averages when he played for Cleveland a few years later.

valade16
11-22-2017, 12:34 PM
03-04: Dirk
04-05: Wade (already leading his team to the ECF)
05-06: Wade easily
06-07: Wade he was running away with the MVP 50 games in, he was the better player
07-08: Dirk Wade was playing through injury when he shouldn't have
08-09: Wade not even close
09-10: Wade
10-11: Wade
11-12: Wade
12-13: Wade
13-14: Dirk
14-15: Wade
15-16: Wade he was a top 10 player in the playoffs, clutchest player until elimination
16-17: Wade
17-18: Wade starting to flourish in his new role, definitely not terrible.

So Dirk was better 3 of the 15 years Wade was in the league. I think we're viewing it different, you're viewing by things like availability, which is very important for sure but for example.....06-07 Wade was a much better player through 50 games but I assume you give Dirk the edge due to Wades injury. If it was 2007 and you made a list of the best players, you would have Wade in your top 3 and above Dirk. The year KD was out all year he was still a better player than Harden, Harden was just available.

Considering your screen name is Wade your assessment is unsurprising but it is a little funny. Dirk actually won the MVP in 2007 and you have Wade as better. Wade doesn't get credit for being better simply because he played fewer games, if anything him playing fewer games is a knock against him. Dirk certainly brought more value that season.

WaDe03
11-22-2017, 12:39 PM
Considering your screen name is Wade your assessment is unsurprising but it is a little funny. Dirk actually won the MVP in 2007 and you have Wade as better. Wade doesn't get credit for being better simply because he played fewer games, if anything him playing fewer games is a knock against him. Dirk certainly brought more value that season.

So Dirk was the best player in the world in 2007? Westbrook is the best player in the world right now since he's the reigning MVP? I know Dirk won in 2007, he wasn't a better player than Wade though. Wasn't a better player than LeBron or Kobe either. I'm not trying to boost Wade for playing less games, as I said availability is important. Dirk doesn't have an MVP if Wade doesn't get injured, that's a fact. Wade was easily better until injury. Like I said, the year KD sat out the whole year he was still better than Harden, Harden was just available.

I can't take your opinions on Wade too serious though because you even said yourself a few months ago in another thread "Wow I can't even lie I knew Wade was good in his prime but I didn't know he was this good" when we were discussing Wade vs Curry.

mrblisterdundee
11-22-2017, 12:45 PM
He shot 42% from the field so way more inefficient than average. LeBron's collapse was why Mavs won and I'm sticking to that.

And he got to the line a ton, where he shot nearly 98 percent. That's why his true shooting percentage was nearly 54 percent. They're called free throws.

valade16
11-22-2017, 01:38 PM
So Dirk was the best player in the world in 2007? Westbrook is the best player in the world right now since he's the reigning MVP? I know Dirk won in 2007, he wasn't a better player than Wade though. Wasn't a better player than LeBron or Kobe either. I'm not trying to boost Wade for playing less games, as I said availability is important. Dirk doesn't have an MVP if Wade doesn't get injured, that's a fact. Wade was easily better until injury. Like I said, the year KD sat out the whole year he was still better than Harden, Harden was just available.

I can't take your opinions on Wade too serious though because you even said yourself a few months ago in another thread "Wow I can't even lie I knew Wade was good in his prime but I didn't know he was this good" when we were discussing Wade vs Curry.

And I can't take your opinions on Wade too serious considering your screenname is Wade and you completely a homer about him. See? Petty insults go both ways.

Dirk wasn't the best player solely because of his MVP that year. He was 2nd in PER (behind Wade) and 1st in WS/48 (miles ahead of Wade at .278 to .213) and .040 better than any other WS/48. Statistically, he definitely had a case as the best player in the league (he also had the same case the year before too).

At best you can argue they were a wash, but Dirk playing more that year means he was more valuable. Wade has incredibly good numbers at his peak, probably slightly better than Dirk, but Dirk has pretty monstrous peak numbers himself.

smith&wesson
11-22-2017, 03:08 PM
Wade has won the most. Albeit as the 1b guy but neverthless he was a key focal point to 3 ships.