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mrblisterdundee
11-19-2017, 06:25 PM
I was listening to the Bill Simmons Podcast, and he was making a list of the top 20 players in the league right now. He still had Kawhi fifth, arguing the Spurs could bring him back at any point and plug him in. He put Embiid after Blake and Simmons, despite the list coming out a couple days after Embiid King Kong-ed Los Angeles.
Rank your top 20 players in the NBA right now.
Here was Bill Simmons' top 20 (https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2017/11/17/16671164/top-20-nba-players-bill-simmons):

1-5: LeBron, Durant, Harden, Giannis, Kawhi
6-10: Curry, Davis, Westbrook, Kyrie, Cousins
11-15: Draymond, Klay, Porzingis, Simmons, Blake
16-20: Embiid, George, Gasol, Jokic, Paul

mrblisterdundee
11-19-2017, 06:41 PM
I don't include Kawhi or Paul on my list, treating the whole "right now" thing a bit stricter:

1-5: LeBron, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Curry
6-10: Davis, Cousins, Westbrook, Porzingis, Kyrie
11-15: Embiid, Draymond, Simmons, Klay, Blake
16-20: Gasol, George, Jokic, DeRozan, Drummond

TylerSL
11-19-2017, 07:34 PM
1. Lebron
2. Kawhi
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Westbrook
6. Harden
7. Davis
8. Giannis
9. Cousins
10. CP3
11. PG 13
12. Porzingis
13. Kyrie
14. Klay
15. Blake
16. Embiid
17. Wall
18. Lillard
19. Towns
20. Gobert

Honorable mentions-Draymond, Jokic, Drummond, Simmons, Hayward

I did include players who are injured because we know what they can do. This is my list as of now.

More-Than-Most
11-19-2017, 08:29 PM
Blake isnt close to embiid... But i am curious about something... Has Porz been better than Embiid? Its close statistically... Embiid turns it over more and scores a few points less but everything else esp defense is better in 4 less minutes per game.

Heediot
11-19-2017, 09:23 PM
James-Curry-Leonard-KD-Harden
Westbrook-Cp3-Giannis-AD-Embiid
Marc-Dray-Jokic-Cousins-Porzingis
PG-Kyrie-Wall-Towns-Butler
Griffin-Klay-Horford-Lillard-Conley

no particular order just tiers.

DanG
11-20-2017, 01:38 AM
Haven't seen all the players to conduct a full top 20. Gets really tough 10-20. Some thoughts:

Really tough to rank Curry. Without KD, I think he's still that 30/5/6 guy.

What Giannis has to do to enter the top 5 is lead his team to 50 wins. Right now Harden/Westbrook can lead a team better than him, although Westbrook has his issues with his team this year, but last year was clear proof.

Cousins is better than I thought. Him and AD have been really close production wise this season. Still take AD because of his defense.

And a healthy Embiid finishes my top 10.

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Westbrook
7. Giannis
8. Davis
9. Cousins
10. Embiid

Honorable mention: Porzingis

basch152
11-20-2017, 02:43 AM
LeBron
Durant
giannis
kawhi
curry
cp3
davis
Westbrook
harden
Paul George
embiid
porzingis
draymond
klay
gasol
wall
kyrie
Simmons
wall
towns

Heediot
11-20-2017, 05:28 AM
AD and Cousins could be argued to be top 10 guys, but it makes you wonder, doesn't having two top 10 guys guarantee a playoff seeding as at least a 6th seed (no matter who the surrounding talent)? We will see how things unfold.

tredigs
11-20-2017, 08:42 AM
It's interesting that Curry is apparently widely considered below KD despite clearly being the best and most important player on the Warriors, with all the numbers backing it up. NIKE baby.

DanG
11-20-2017, 11:50 AM
AD and Cousins could be argued to be top 10 guys, but it makes you wonder, doesn't having two top 10 guys guarantee a playoff seeding as at least a 6th seed (no matter who the surrounding talent)? We will see how things unfold.

Looking at the roster they're a 40 win team in the West and would be a 45 win team in the East. There's no depth on this team.

Giannis94
11-20-2017, 12:02 PM
Looking at the roster they're a 40 win team in the West and would be a 45 win team in the East. There's no depth on this team.

I'm still in shock they gave holliday 126 or whatever it was. I feel like there is little reason that Beldsoe is getting 12.5 a year. Which I feel is/should be Holliday's going rate seeing PG is probably the deepest position in the nba

hugepatsfan
11-20-2017, 12:21 PM
I don't understand all the hate for Jrue Holiday. He's having an uncharacteristically bad start to the season as an outside shooter but I fully expect him to return to his 36% career average. He's not the problem in NO at all.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 04:20 PM
I don't understand all the hate for Jrue Holiday. He's having an uncharacteristically bad start to the season as an outside shooter but I fully expect him to return to his 36% career average. He's not the problem in NO at all.

When he's the highest paid player on the team, then yes, he should be blamed for it.

basch152
11-20-2017, 04:36 PM
It's interesting that Curry is apparently widely considered below KD despite clearly being the best and most important player on the Warriors, with all the numbers backing it up. NIKE baby.

defense is the difference

hugepatsfan
11-20-2017, 05:07 PM
When he's the highest paid player on the team, then yes, he should be blamed for it.

Blamed for what? A 15 game shooting slump totally out of the norm for his career? IDK, not something I'd be too concerned with as a NO fan. He is definitely overpaid but that's life in the NBA. If they let him walk they'd still be over the cap and have no means to sign someone else. Players and their agents hold teams over the barrel on that stuff.

The problem in NO is that between the deals for Asik, Moore, Hill, Ajinca they put themselves in that position where they were still gonna be over the cap (or minimally under) even if they let Holiday go. SO they had to compound the issue by overpaying Holiday because they had no other choice. It's the best they can do to salvage their situation.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 05:13 PM
Blamed for what? A 15 game shooting slump totally out of the norm for his career? IDK, not something I'd be too concerned with as a NO fan. He is definitely overpaid but that's life in the NBA. If they let him walk they'd still be over the cap and have no means to sign someone else. Players and their agents hold teams over the barrel on that stuff.

The problem in NO is that between the deals for Asik, Moore, Hill, Ajinca they put themselves in that position where they were still gonna be over the cap (or minimally under) even if they let Holiday go. SO they had to compound the issue by overpaying Holiday because they had no other choice. It's the best they can do to salvage their situation.

That's not an excuse. If he's the highest paid, that means they expect him to play at a certain level. If he's not playing well, he should be blamed. The guy makes a ton of money and hasn't been playing the way he should. It's just that he isn't a big name people refuse to look at him as the problem and it's much easier hating on Cousins. Is it fair that Cousins gets blamed when Jrue makes considerably more than Cousins and doesn't get any blame? The problem is simple: New Orleans relies too much on AD+Cousins and no one else has stepped up. Jrue is the #1 culprit in that regard. The team clearly overpaid him but that doesn't excuse him at all.

hugepatsfan
11-20-2017, 05:17 PM
That's not an excuse. If he's the highest paid, that means they expect him to play at a certain level. If he's not playing well, he should be blamed. The guy makes a ton of money and hasn't been playing the way he should. It's just that he isn't a big name people refuse to look at him as the problem and it's much easier hating on Cousins. Is it fair that Cousins gets blamed when Jrue makes considerably more than Cousins and doesn't get any blame? The problem is simple: New Orleans relies too much on AD+Cousins and no one else has stepped up. Jrue is the #1 culprit in that regard. The team clearly overpaid him but that doesn't excuse him at all.

Is he really playing that bad though? He has the highest shooting percentage of his career despite a complete outlier percentage from 3. As far as I know he's still a good defender. He's just shooting really poorly over 15 games. He's not an elite player so regardless of what he's paid you can't expect him to be IMO. He's been what you expect him to be minus a bad shooting start that I don't view as a trend. IDK, he just gets too much hate on here IMO. Big picture NO's issue is that they have too many "meh" pieces making serious money to where they're blocked from adding impact talent. Jrue is a part of that but I don't view him individually as a huge issue.

FlashBolt
11-20-2017, 05:21 PM
Is he really playing that bad though? He has the highest shooting percentage of his career despite a complete outlier percentage from 3. As far as I know he's still a good defender. He's just shooting really poorly over 15 games. He's not an elite player so regardless of what he's paid you can't expect him to be IMO. He's been what you expect him to be minus a bad shooting start that I don't view as a trend. IDK, he just gets too much hate on here IMO. Big picture NO's issue is that they have too many "meh" pieces making serious money to where they're blocked from adding impact talent. Jrue is a part of that but I don't view him individually as a huge issue.

Like I said, when you are the highest paid player on your team and you aren't playing of value, you deserve to get blamed. Like Cousins gets so much blame but people don't realize he's only getting paid $17 million. Same with Love. It's the responsibility of the team's management to figure things out and Jrue+Pelicans have done a poor job at that. I still don't understand why Jrue got paid that much money.

hugepatsfan
11-20-2017, 05:33 PM
Yeah, and I think we've had this discussion before, I just find it silly to tie performance totally to salary. Cousins makes $17M because that's the absolute max he could be paid at this stage of the career. Everyone knows he's an upper tier player regardless of where his salary ranks.

Jrue, on the opposite end, everyone knows that he isn't an upper tier player. He's a good player, but not a great player. Because of the NBA salary structure the Pelicans were faced with the choice of overpaying him as a great player or letting him walk with no means to sign anyone else. Keep him and they had exceptions. Let him walk and they still could only use exceptions. So they chose to keep him even though they know it was an overpayment. That's why they gave him his money - not because they expect him to perform at that level. In the context of the salary structure of their team it made sense since they had nothing to gain roster wise by declining to pay him that much.

Realistically I don't expect him to be great. My expectation would be for him to be the caliber of player he is. Through 15 games he's about 10% lower than you'd expect from 3 but to me that's just a sample size thing. Jrue's deal isn't a red flag to me based on the understanding I have of why it was signed.

tredigs
11-20-2017, 05:51 PM
defense is the difference
Doesn't outweigh the offensive advantage and the stats + eye test simply back it up. That's not a knock on KD either.

WaDe03
11-20-2017, 09:02 PM
Holy **** at some of these lists.

JordansBulls
11-20-2017, 11:41 PM
Durant is the best player he showed it in the finals including hitting the game winner on Lebron.

smith&wesson
11-21-2017, 12:14 AM
Lebron
Giannis
Durant
Harden
WB
Curry
Leonard
Irving
Davis
Cousins
Wall
Towns
Embid
Simmons
George
Derozan
K. Thompson
D.Green
Proz
M.Gasol

Honerable mentions: Gobert, Griffen, Lillard, Mcollum, Butler

smith&wesson
11-21-2017, 12:16 AM
Durant is the best player he showed it in the finals including hitting the game winner on Lebron.

This season so far Lebron has been better looking at their numbers

More-Than-Most
11-21-2017, 01:43 AM
Durant is the best player he showed it in the finals including hitting the game winner on Lebron.

You try to troll so hard... How about we use logic... Why did Durant show it in the finals? He can rest... He let the big 3 wear the cavs down and came in the 4th fresh as hell to go against a lebron who cant rest at all... Lets be real its not close so just stop.

JordansBulls
11-21-2017, 09:08 PM
You try to troll so hard... How about we use logic... Why did Durant show it in the finals? He can rest... He let the big 3 wear the cavs down and came in the 4th fresh as hell to go against a lebron who cant rest at all... Lets be real its not close so just stop.

He showed it in the finals because he showed he was the better player and Lebron didn't want that challenge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZ6ubhHIOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZVhW29h2w0

jon32
11-21-2017, 11:19 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kyrie Irving
5. James Harden
6. Steph Curry
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Anthony Davis
9. DeMarcus Cousins
10. Karl Anthony Towns
11. Kristaps Porzingas
12. John Wall
13. Ben Simmons
14. Klay Thompson
15. Paul George
16. Joel Embiid
17. DeMar DeRozan
18. Bradley Beal
19. LaMarcus Aldridge
20. Damien Lillard

Sanjay
06-23-2018, 08:25 PM
I was listening to the Bill Simmons Podcast, and he was making a list of the top 20 players in the league right now. He still had Kawhi fifth, arguing the Spurs could bring him back at any point and plug him in. He put Embiid after Blake and Simmons, despite the list coming out a couple days after Embiid King Kong-ed Los Angeles.
Rank your top 20 players in the NBA right now.
Here was Bill Simmons' top 20 (https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2017/11/17/16671164/top-20-nba-players-bill-simmons):

1-5: LeBron, Durant, Harden, Giannis, Kawhi
6-10: Curry, Davis, Westbrook, Kyrie, Cousins
11-15: Draymond, Klay, Porzingis, Simmons, Blake
16-20: Embiid, George, Gasol, Jokic, Paul

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Davis
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. Irving
8. Lillard
9. Griffin
10. Paul
11. Butler
12. Westbrook
13. Wall
14. Anthony-Towns
15. Thomas
16. Conley
17. George
18. Walker
19. DeRozan
20. Cousins

More-Than-Most
06-23-2018, 09:07 PM
Blake isnt close to embiid... But i am curious about something... Has Porz been better than Embiid? Its close statistically... Embiid turns it over more and scores a few points less but everything else esp defense is better in 4 less minutes per game.

I am ****ing amazing.

Joemoes
06-24-2018, 02:48 PM
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. Davis
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. Irving
8. Lillard
9. Griffin
10. Paul
11. Butler
12. Westbrook
13. Wall
14. Anthony-Towns
15. Thomas
16. Conley
17. George
18. Walker
19. DeRozan
20. Cousins
are you listing this as if it was a year ago

tp13baby
06-24-2018, 03:32 PM
Blake isnt close to embiid... But i am curious about something... Has Porz been better than Embiid? Its close statistically... Embiid turns it over more and scores a few points less but everything else esp defense is better in 4 less minutes per game.

Porz is nowhere near Embiid. Neither is Blake.

Besides the first month Of last year Kristnaps has been a good but not great player for his career. Kristnaps still overrated.

IKnowHoops
06-24-2018, 04:24 PM
Lol @ Irving in top 15

cmellofan15
06-24-2018, 05:51 PM
top ten is as far as i'll go lol pretty confident in the top 5 and their placement but after that it's a bit shaky

1. lebron
2. durant
3. curry
4. harden
5. ad
6. kawhi
7. giannis
8. westbrook
9. cp3
10. dray

ZH721
06-24-2018, 06:19 PM
Lol @ Irving in top 15

The stats he was putting up before his season ending injury justify it.

Lol, IKnowHoops.

WaDe03
06-25-2018, 10:59 AM
1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Curry
4. Harden
5. Kawhi
6. AD
7. Westbrook
8. Jimmy Butler
9. CP3
10. Giannis
11. Cousins
12. PG
13. Lillard
14. Kyrie
15. Embiid
16. Wall
17. Derozan
18. Towns
19. Draymond
20. Mitchell

Oakmont_4
06-25-2018, 11:12 AM
1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Curry
4. Harden
5. Kawhi
6. AD
7. Westbrook
8. Jimmy Butler
9. CP3
10. Giannis
11. Cousins
12. PG
13. Lillard
14. Kyrie
15. Embiid
16. Wall
17. Derozan
18. Towns
19. Draymond
20. Mitchell

What no Wade?

Oakmont_4
06-25-2018, 11:25 AM
I'll go with the tiers as well

1-5: LeBron-Durant-Kawhi-Curry-Davis

6-10: Harden-Westbrook-Giannis-CP3-Kyrie

11-15: Butler-George-Cousins-Draymond-Lillard

16-20: Klay-KAT-Wall-Derozen-Gobert

Hayward would be top 20 but he didn't play last year so I'll leave him out. I put Kawhi in because he deserves to be top 5, despite being in a similar situation as Hayward last year.

Mitchell is on the doorstep of cracking the list

LOL to the Ben Simmons top 20 crowd.

IKnowHoops
06-25-2018, 12:16 PM
top ten is as far as i'll go lol pretty confident in the top 5 and their placement but after that it's a bit shaky

1. lebron
2. durant
3. curry
4. harden
5. ad
6. kawhi
7. giannis
8. westbrook
9. cp3
10. dray

Dray?...bunch of people Id take over Dray. Id take Embiid and Simmons over Dray

WaDe03
06-25-2018, 01:34 PM
What no Wade?

Number 0. on every list, goes without saying

LOb0
06-25-2018, 01:39 PM
Dray?...bunch of people Id take over Dray. Id take Embiid and Simmons over Dray

Not Simmons. Maybe when he figures out that a jump shot is important.

mightybosstone
06-25-2018, 01:50 PM
With very little research, my top 20 after the season probably looks a little something like this:

Tier 1
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Curry
4. Harden

Tier 2
5. Davis
6. Kawhi
7. Giannis
8. Paul
9. Westbrook

Tier 3
10. Kyrie
11. Butler
12. Cousins
13. George

Tier 4
14. Lillard
15. Embiid
16. Draymond
17. Wall
18. Jokic
19. KAT
20. DeRozan

Just outside:
21. Oladipo
22. Gobert
23. Lowry
24. Horford
25. Aldridge
26. Klay
27. Simmons
28. Mitchell

tredigs
06-25-2018, 03:38 PM
With very little research, my top 20 after the season probably looks a little something like this:

Tier 1
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Curry
4. Harden

Tier 2
5. Davis
6. Kawhi
7. Giannis
8. Paul
9. Westbrook

Tier 3
10. Kyrie
11. Butler
12. Cousins
13. George

Tier 4
14. Lillard
15. Embiid
16. Draymond
17. Wall
18. Jokic
19. KAT
20. DeRozan

Just outside:
21. Oladipo
22. Gobert
23. Lowry
24. Horford
25. Aldridge
26. Klay
27. Simmons
28. Mitchell

Harden top tier? No, but that's funny buddy. We're on 3 straight playoff runs of sub 42% from the field and 29% from 3 with joke D. Add to that his crazy no-shows and yeah, not happening. He is not among the greats.

Edit: looking at it more so much of this list is a wreck. Just made it to #4 before the wheels fell off. CP being 3 TIERS ahead of Oladipo is hilarious. It is as if this list was made in 2016. You're a Homer through and through.

Texan_Rocket
06-25-2018, 05:03 PM
Harden top tier? No, but that's funny buddy. We're on 3 straight playoff runs of sub 42% from the field and 29% from 3 with joke D. Add to that his crazy no-shows and yeah, not happening. He is not among the greats.

Edit: looking at it more so much of this list is a wreck. Just made it to #4 before the wheels fell off. CP being 3 TIERS ahead of Oladipo is hilarious. It is as if this list was made in 2016. You're a Homer through and through.

Valid on the sub 42% and 29%. Calling his defense a joke this year, especially after the playoffs, is just wrong. Not great by any means but the man played his share of defense, quit living in the past.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-25-2018, 06:15 PM
Porz is nowhere near Embiid. Neither is Blake.

Besides the first month Of last year Kristnaps has been a good but not great player for his career. Kristnaps still overrated.

I disagree. He is still only 22 years old and he's 7'3" with great rim protection and the ability to score form anywhere on the floor. Loads of potential there and he's starting to realize it. I think he's very much on his way to super stardom.

Maybe some overrate him right now, but given his age and skill set, I think he's extremely valuable.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-25-2018, 06:42 PM
1) Lebron - the 2nd best player of all time who seems to get better with age
2) Durant - he's a coward in every sense of the word, but there is not denying the God given abilities this man possesses
3) Curry - talk about his defense all you want, but he's the greatest shooter ever and his offensive efficiency is off the charts... he changes the game in ways few players can when he's on the court
4) Harden - lacks defense and shooting efficiency, but does so much on offense and all those free throws plays up the scoring efficiency
5) Davis - Best all around big in the game
6) Giannis - rising, but needs to improve his shooting to jump into the top 5
7) Kawhi - injuries have to knock him down a few spots
8) Westbrook - can do it all, but lacks the scoring efficiency to rank higher
9) CP3 - he's still got it
10) Klay - no better 3 and D guy exists
11) Butler - just a great all around player
12) Embiid - rising, but needs to prove durability
13) Lillard - absolute scoring machine
14) Kyrie - if knee injury lingers, he'll be out of the top 20 soon
15) KAT - needs to improve defense, but is arguably the best offensive big
16) PG13 - his offense is overrated, but versatile defense keeps him in the top 20
17) Draymond - elite defense and does all the little things
18) Cousins - increased offensive efficiency pushes him up, but injury knocks him back down
19) Jokic - love his game, but not a dominant enough scorer to rank higher and lacks defense
20) Simmons - rising, but needs to improve his shooting

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-25-2018, 06:51 PM
Blake didn't even come close to sniffing my list.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-25-2018, 06:53 PM
Lol @ Irving in top 15

I mean, I don't see what the issue is. He's not great defensively, but his offense is awesome. He's improved his offensive efficiency and is a scoring machine.

If the knee continues to be a problem next year, then I'd drop him out of the top 20 though. There are too many good healthy players that are not far behind him.

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 07:09 PM
Irving might be a top 10 player in the NBA, honestly. If healthy, I would say so, yes.

mightybosstone
06-25-2018, 07:36 PM
Harden top tier? No, but that's funny buddy. We're on 3 straight playoff runs of sub 42% from the field and 29% from 3 with joke D. Add to that his crazy no-shows and yeah, not happening. He is not among the greats.
His D is better than Curry's, and his postseason numbers were arguably better than Curry's this season. At least I put him behind Steph (which I seriously considered not doing). Also, I love that I'm probably the fourth or fifth person who put him in that 4 spot, but you're only complaining about me because I put him in the top tier. Why is the tier such a massive differentiator for you? If I put him at No. 4 but had him in the second tier, would it make THAT much of a difference in the end?


Edit: looking at it more so much of this list is a wreck. Just made it to #4 before the wheels fell off. CP being 3 TIERS ahead of Oladipo is hilarious. It is as if this list was made in 2016. You're a Homer through and through.
Paul is better than Oladipo, and statistically he's the superior player. Also, give me the guy who's proven it over the last 10-12 years over a guy who looked like a bust prior to this season. I want Oladipo to prove it wasn't a one-hit wonder before I jump him into that top 15 conversation. What's your argument for Oladipo over Paul? I'd love to hear it.

Also, why do you feel the need to immediately jump to "insulting prick mode" the second someone says something you disagree with? I put maybe 5-10 minutes worth of thought into that list and just threw it up there as a comparison, and you felt the need to degrade me... for what? To goat me? To try and prove that you're somehow superior when it comes to basketball knowledge?

Get over yourself, dude. Maybe for once you could hop off your pedestal and come down here to just talk basketball without being a complete jerk about it. :shrug:

Edit: Also, I went back and checked, and literally every other person who has posted a top 10-20 in the last few days has had Paul in that same 8-10 range. And I'm pretty sure I'm the first person who's even mentioned Oladipo as a potential borderline guy.

So you're insulting my list and calling me out for being a homer, but LITERALLY everyone else (all non-Rockets fans) have agreed with me up to this point.

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 07:47 PM
His D is better than Curry's, and his postseason numbers were arguably better than Curry's this season. At least I put him behind Steph (which I seriously considered not doing). Also, I love that I'm probably the fourth or fifth person who put him in that 4 spot, but you're only complaining about me because I put him in the top tier. Why is the tier such a massive differentiator for you? If I put him at No. 4 but had him in the second tier, would it make THAT much of a difference in the end?


Paul is better than Oladipo, and statistically he's the superior player. Also, give me the guy who's proven it over the last 10-12 years over a guy who looked like a bust prior to this season. I want Oladipo to prove it wasn't a one-hit wonder before I jump him into that top 15 conversation. What's your argument for Oladipo over Paul? I'd love to hear it.

Also, why do you feel the need to immediately jump to "insulting prick mode" the second someone says something you disagree with? I put maybe 5-10 minutes worth of thought into that list and just threw it up there as a comparison, and you felt the need to degrade me... for what? To goat me? To try and prove that you're somehow superior when it comes to basketball knowledge?

Good over yourself, dude. Maybe for once you could hop off your pedestal and come down here to just talk basketball without being a complete jerk about it. :shrug:

Edit: Also, I went back and checked, and literally every other person who has posted a top 10-20 in the last few days has had Paul in that same 8-10 range. And I'm pretty sure I'm the first person who's even mentioned Oladipo as a potential borderline guy.

So you're insulting my list and calling me out for being a homer, but LITERALLY everyone else (all non-Rockets fans) have agreed with me up to this point.

You should know by now that Tredigs is only here because he can't be banned. His posts are terrible and usually involve some type of insult or degrading as if he's the top dog in the universe. You can tell his type of character is ego-infested. The guy used to be a good poster but as the Warriors climbed into relevance, he fell into being a bitter and spiteful individual. I feel bad for the guy because I know deep down, he's tough to develop any sort of relationship with and so he's likely very lonely and often.

More-Than-Most
06-25-2018, 08:08 PM
1) Lebron - the 2nd best player of all time who seems to get better with age
2) Durant - he's a coward in every sense of the word, but there is not denying the God given abilities this man possesses
3) Curry - talk about his defense all you want, but he's the greatest shooter ever and his offensive efficiency is off the charts... he changes the game in ways few players can when he's on the court
4) Harden - lacks defense and shooting efficiency, but does so much on offense and all those free throws plays up the scoring efficiency
5) Davis - Best all around big in the game
6) Giannis - rising, but needs to improve his shooting to jump into the top 5
7) Kawhi - injuries have to knock him down a few spots
8) Westbrook - can do it all, but lacks the scoring efficiency to rank higher
9) CP3 - he's still got it
10) Klay - no better 3 and D guy exists
11) Butler - just a great all around player
12) Embiid - rising, but needs to prove durability
13) Lillard - absolute scoring machine
14) Kyrie - if knee injury lingers, he'll be out of the top 20 soon
15) KAT - needs to improve defense, but is arguably the best offensive big
16) PG13 - his offense is overrated, but versatile defense keeps him in the top 20
17) Draymond - elite defense and does all the little things
18) Cousins - increased offensive efficiency pushes him up, but injury knocks him back down
19) Jokic - love his game, but not a dominant enough scorer to rank higher and lacks defense
20) Simmons - rising, but needs to improve his shooting

the only 2 things id differ on with this list would be AD KL... AD would be my 3rd best player behind Lebron and Durant and KL would be my 4th best player.... My top 5 would be

Lebron
Durant
AD
KL/Curry
Curry/KL


I love everything else about your list including where you have PG13. Id have him closer to the 20 range but you might be the only other person on here that doesnt overrated the **** out of him.

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 08:40 PM
the only 2 things id differ on with this list would be AD KL... AD would be my 3rd best player behind Lebron and Durant and KL would be my 4th best player.... My top 5 would be

Lebron
Durant
AD
KL/Curry
Curry/KL


I love everything else about your list including where you have PG13. Id have him closer to the 20 range but you might be the only other person on here that doesnt overrated the **** out of him.

Remember when you said Embiid is better than AD....

cmellofan15
06-25-2018, 08:41 PM
Dray?...bunch of people Id take over Dray. Id take Embiid and Simmons over Dray

I would take neither of them above Draymond. Theres a couple guys you could throw in that spot tho. Cousins, PG, Butler, and Dame come to mind. But being the best defender in the league and an elite floor general puts draymond there for me

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 08:51 PM
I would take neither of them above Draymond. Theres a couple guys you could throw in that spot tho. Cousins, PG, Butler, and Dame come to mind. But being the best defender in the league and an elite floor general puts draymond there for me

Dray is good for what he is in the Warriors system but he's overrated, honestly.

More-Than-Most
06-25-2018, 09:07 PM
Remember when you said Embiid is better than AD....

Yea I expected AD to fall off some or be a liability on defense. Man was I wrong.

More-Than-Most
06-25-2018, 09:08 PM
I would take neither of them above Draymond. Theres a couple guys you could throw in that spot tho. Cousins, PG, Butler, and Dame come to mind. But being the best defender in the league and an elite floor general puts draymond there for me

I get taking dray over simmons right now but there is no excuse for taking dray over embiid. Embiid on the warriors over dray is just disgusting.

Allphakenny1
06-25-2018, 11:08 PM
1) Lebron - the 2nd best player of all time who seems to get better with age
2) Durant - he's a coward in every sense of the word, but there is not denying the God given abilities this man possesses
3) Curry - talk about his defense all you want, but he's the greatest shooter ever and his offensive efficiency is off the charts... he changes the game in ways few players can when he's on the court
4) Harden - lacks defense and shooting efficiency, but does so much on offense and all those free throws plays up the scoring efficiency
5) Davis - Best all around big in the game
6) Giannis - rising, but needs to improve his shooting to jump into the top 5
7) Kawhi - injuries have to knock him down a few spots
8) Westbrook - can do it all, but lacks the scoring efficiency to rank higher
9) CP3 - he's still got it
10) Klay - no better 3 and D guy exists
11) Butler - just a great all around player
12) Embiid - rising, but needs to prove durability
13) Lillard - absolute scoring machine
14) Kyrie - if knee injury lingers, he'll be out of the top 20 soon
15) KAT - needs to improve defense, but is arguably the best offensive big
16) PG13 - his offense is overrated, but versatile defense keeps him in the top 20
17) Draymond - elite defense and does all the little things
18) Cousins - increased offensive efficiency pushes him up, but injury knocks him back down
19) Jokic - love his game, but not a dominant enough scorer to rank higher and lacks defense
20) Simmons - rising, but needs to improve his shooting

I think your list is pretty good.

I have never had Kawai in the top 4, when many have had him as high as #2. This is a pretty accurate rating for him.

I have always had Westbrook around here, maybe one higher. Others have had him in the top 5 before.

I think where you lose me is Thompson at the 10 spot. I am a Warriors fan and I cannot put him that high. Top 20 for sure, but top 10 is too much.

cmellofan15
06-25-2018, 11:25 PM
I get taking dray over simmons right now but there is no excuse for taking dray over embiid. Embiid on the warriors over dray is just disgusting.

Embiid on the warriors means they lose their floor general and the most the versatile defender in the NBA for a guy who has similar rim protection but an offensive game that would be redundant in their system.

On the flip side, with Ben Simmons on the team i dont think putting draymond in philly would be an improvement at all

Also the warriors play a LOT of games. Theres no way Im gonna gamble on a guy that might force me to play Zaza or Javale for stretches of the season and playoffs.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 12:17 AM
Embiid on the warriors means they lose their floor general and the most the versatile defender in the NBA for a guy who has similar rim protection but an offensive game that would be redundant in their system.

On the flip side, with Ben Simmons on the team i dont think putting draymond in philly would be an improvement at all

Also the warriors play a LOT of games. Theres no way Im gonna gamble on a guy that might force me to play Zaza or Javale for stretches of the season and playoffs.

If Embiid was on the Warriors, do you honestly think Warriors wouldn't pummel the Cavs by even more? I mean, Draymond's defense is great but he doesn't have the interior defense of Embiid. The reason Draymond can even play perimeter defense on an elite level is because there aren't much unstoppable big men in the NBA so that allows Draymond to dominate vs smaller matchups (which is usually the case when the Warriors play). Embiid would give the Warriors unstoppable interior scoring along with top three rim protection.

Draymond's reputation as a player is highly boosted and inflated by playing with the Warriors. Let's face it: He's a good but not great player. He's a liability offensively and his passing is a byproduct of the system. What I like to judge a player's individual ability is based on whether they can duplicate that same impact on another team. Other than on elite teams, I doubt Draymond comes close to being the same player he is under the Warriors.

Scoots
06-26-2018, 06:05 AM
Stop resurrecting old threads.