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Scoots
11-18-2017, 01:08 PM
It's not a stretch to say that the following players are top 20 players this year:

Cousins
Davis
Gasol
Embiid
Jokic
KAT
Gobert

And that's just centers.

If we add in 6'9"+ players who would be in the discussion for top 20 THIS YEAR:
Zinger
Horford
Durant
Griffin
Simmons

Yes, the top 10 is dominated by the smaller guys, but the league certainly has a nice looking group of big guys to build on.

warfelg
11-18-2017, 02:24 PM
The rules were tipped to help the wings and guards a few years ago. It took the time for the bigs to adjust and use the rules to their advantage too. Despite the fact these bigs can all play the back to the basket game they have started to build a face up game that uses the rules to their advantage.

smith&wesson
11-18-2017, 02:39 PM
It's not a stretch to say that the following players are top 20 players this year:

Cousins
Davis
Gasol
Embiid
Jokic
KAT
Gobert

And that's just centers.

If we add in 6'9"+ players who would be in the discussion for top 20 THIS YEAR:
Zinger
Horford
Durant
Griffin
Simmons

Yes, the top 10 is dominated by the smaller guys, but the league certainly has a nice looking group of big guys to build on.

Isn't "zinger" like 7'3

Raps18-19 Champ
11-18-2017, 02:41 PM
I want the NBA to include the FIBA rules about goaltending and basket interference. That will make big men relevant big time. It also won't compromise the wings because they can choose the 3 if they wish.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-18-2017, 02:42 PM
Isn't "zinger" like 7'3

Yea but he's technically a PF.

kdspurman
11-18-2017, 02:53 PM
You forgot LMA too. But yea, guys are learning to adjust a bit to how the game is played today.

JAZZNC
11-18-2017, 02:58 PM
I don't know that the big ever "left" there just seemed to be a few years where there weren't any quality prospects coming out. The last 5yrs or so there have just been better players at center/PF coming into the NBA.

Chronz
11-18-2017, 03:15 PM
I'd love to see the percentage of minutes with 2 traditional bigs on the floor

Scoots
11-18-2017, 08:25 PM
Isn't "zinger" like 7'3

Yeah, but I said 6'9+ and his listed position isn't center.

Scoots
11-18-2017, 08:25 PM
I want the NBA to include the FIBA rules about goaltending and basket interference. That will make big men relevant big time. It also won't compromise the wings because they can choose the 3 if they wish.

I agree.

Scoots
11-18-2017, 08:26 PM
I'd love to see the percentage of minutes with 2 traditional bigs on the floor

For non-Pelicans teams it's tiny.

warfelg
11-18-2017, 08:27 PM
For non-Pelicans teams it's tiny.

What do you consider the Embiid-Simmons-Saric Trio? All 6'10" or taller and start. Toss in 6'9" RoCo for good measure.

FlashBolt
11-18-2017, 08:58 PM
The rules were tipped to help the wings and guards a few years ago. It took the time for the bigs to adjust and use the rules to their advantage too. Despite the fact these bigs can all play the back to the basket game they have started to build a face up game that uses the rules to their advantage.

Yeah, this is my point as well. The centers are taking advantage of the inevitable. It was bound to happen.

Scoots
11-19-2017, 09:37 AM
What do you consider the Embiid-Simmons-Saric Trio? All 6'10" or taller and start. Toss in 6'9" RoCo for good measure.

He said "tradtional bigs" ... do you think Saric and Simmons are playing in a traditional way?

warfelg
11-19-2017, 09:46 AM
He said "tradtional bigs" ... do you think Saric and Simmons are playing in a traditional way?

Both can. And both do. Saric does all the time. Simmons does when TJ McConnell comes in.

Scoots
11-19-2017, 10:01 AM
Both can. And both do. Saric does all the time. Simmons does when TJ McConnell comes in.

Can is not the point though, Saric plays more like a SF than a traditional PF and Simmons is actually listed at PG. Even Embiid spends a lot more time outside than a "traditional" big would.

That said, so does Cousins, so maybe the answer is that there are no more traditional big pairs.

warfelg
11-19-2017, 10:06 AM
Can is not the point though, Saric plays more like a SF than a traditional PF and Simmons is actually listed at PG. Even Embiid spends a lot more time outside than a "traditional" big would.

That said, so does Cousins, so maybe the answer is that there are no more traditional big pairs.

Saric is more of a traditional PF than playing like a SF. If you want to dig into his stats last year, he did most his damage playing 5-10 feet from the hoop. He's struggling this year because we're asking him to play in space.

Someone said it to me, and I posted it elsewhere on here, that Saric plays a lot like Boris Diaw. Yea he can step outside and hit that shot, he can move some in space, he can handle the ball, but he's most useful when he can get into a postup position and battle some. He's much better and much more comfortable. The ability to play some in space comes from FIBA and Euro-Ball where the post players have more space to operate than in NBA basketball.

(FWIW rather than the FIBA tip in rules applied to the NBA, I'm more for the wider lane)

As for the Simmons part, yes he's listed as a PG, but as I said, when TJ comes in Simmons slides to the 4, and we play a more traditional high/low post game with Embiid and Simmons.

Sometimes I think we take this "traditional big" thing too far and say that a guy only has to play in the paint (Talking about the Embiid/Cousins part). Yes these guys (along with Gasol, Horford, and a few others) can step out and hit shots. But it doesn't make them any less of a traditional big to me. These guys still play a majority of their time in and playing out of the post.