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View Full Version : Did Lebron **** up the Kyrie situation



j-bay
11-07-2017, 03:18 PM
The question the media is asking is did the Cavs mess up the Kyrie trade. Wrong question. Both Kyrie himself and Lebron said the reason Kyrie left was because Kyrie need a change. This is only half true. It seems like Kyrie only left when Lebron wasn't giving any details about his future. For a guy who was going to give Kyrie the keys to Cavs, it sure doesn't seem like Lebron respected Kyrie like he does a Dwayne Wade or Chris Paul. In his first interview after the trade, he called Kyrie a kid. All Lebron had to do is say "Yes Kyrie i'm staying", even if he is lying and he doesn't know. Now instead of being kings if the EC right now, you got to hope IT is healthy and you got to deal with Kyrie. So i will ask again. The question isn't did the Cavs mess up. The question is did Lebron **** up?

Celticsfan2007
11-07-2017, 03:29 PM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

Me and Mr. T
11-07-2017, 04:22 PM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

GOAT? He's 2 and 4 in the finals. His stats when all said and done will be in that elite class, but GOAT? Give me a break!

europagnpilgrim
11-07-2017, 05:10 PM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

Thing is the Cavs put a product on the floor to compete and made other moves that needed to be made, Cavs could have won back to back had it not been for the injuries to Love/Irving in the first Finals matchup and we all know the BS that happened when they won the following year

KD messed it up for the entire league and Lebron is apart of that total, its not much you can do other than try and keep your core and add a Cousins or PG13, which is tough to do if those players are under contract and not a free agent like KD was

if Thomas was healthy then the effect of Kyrie not being there wouldn't be felt as much, especially on the offense side of it

Celticsfan2007
11-07-2017, 05:19 PM
GOAT? He's 2 and 4 in the finals. His stats when all said and done will be in that elite class, but GOAT? Give me a break!

Conversation for another day. I watched Jordan and I've watched LeBron. You can have your opinion, I'll keep mine. Not important to this thread - point is Lebron doesn't owe Kyrie anything and vice versa. It's the same as the Kobe and Shaq drama. They both did what was best for them.

Vee-Rex
11-07-2017, 05:20 PM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

Eh, there wasn't much more the front office could've done. I don't like to play the "If" game but the Cavs could very well be 2-1 in the finals in the last 3 years if Durant isn't a *****. Hell, maybe 3-0 if not for Kyrie + Love injuries in 2015 (or even 0-3 if not for A, B, C, D during the 2016 finals). My point is that they had a contender for the last 3 years.

What you're seeing now is them on the back end of that contention. While LeBron is still the best player in the world, he can't carry them on both sides of the ball. Kyrie's trade request was sudden, but the return they got (Crowder, Zizic, IT, Brk 1st) wasn't bad at all for a guy who publicly wanted to be traded. And with that in mind you can't really fault the front office for signing Rose to a minimum contract, nor can you really fault them for bringing in Wade (perhaps to make LeBron happy) for a minimum contract.

All the other signings (TT, Shump, JR) were obviously done to make LeBron happy with his 1+1 deals. Pretty sure most front offices would make those same moves if they were running the Cavs.

Who would you have brought in instead for a minimum contract? Anyone of any value got paid more than that.

ewing
11-07-2017, 05:27 PM
LeBron is an egomaniac and it bit him in the *** a little.

Vee-Rex
11-07-2017, 05:28 PM
Also, I agreed that LeBron didn't owe Kyrie anything, and vice versa.

LeBron's presence absorbs all the attention and focus of the front office and all they ever want to do is make sure he's happy, on and off the court. Can't blame Kyrie for wanting a new chapter for his career where every waking moment on and off the court for his team isn't about LeBron. Can't blame LeBron (arguably top 3-all time or GOAT or whatever) for being such a larger than life presence.

Thems the breaks. I don't fault LeBron nor Kyrie. Hopefully we can contend one more year (or more depending on how IT returns and if we can get star talent for the Brk pick) but eventually we'll decline and need a rebuild - like every single other team.

Celticsfan2007
11-07-2017, 05:33 PM
Thing is the Cavs put a product on the floor to compete and made other moves that needed to be made, Cavs could have won back to back had it not been for the injuries to Love/Irving in the first Finals matchup and we all know the BS that happened when they won the following year

Cool. Your talking about 2 and 3 years ago rosters. This thread is about THIS SEASON and about Kyrie not being there.


KD messed it up for the entire league and Lebron is apart of that total, its not much you can do other than try and keep your core and add a Cousins or PG13, which is tough to do if those players are under contract and not a free agent like KD was

I hate what KD did, but sorry I'm not buying into the narrative that KD signing with GS had ANY EFFECT on the Cavs off season moves this summer. KD signed 2 years ago, Cavs FO has had plenty of time to adapt and adjust... they just made poor moves and signed bad contracts. Don't confuse GS fortunes with CLE lack of ability to function as good franchise.


if Thomas was healthy then the effect of Kyrie not being there wouldn't be felt as much, especially on the offense side of it

Agree 100%. I actually think the one GOOD MOVE that CLE made this offseason was the Irving trade. Celtics got RAPED in terms of value for the short term.

Cleveland ****ed up by:

Re-signing - Thompson (doesn't fit todays NBA or GS), JR Smith (horrible contract), Korver (can still shoot but overpaid and bad defensively) and Shumpert (decent player but poor contract)

Going out and sign washed up players like Rose and Wade with expectations that they can be key rotation players on a team that needs DEFENSE AND 3PT SHOOTERS to play Lebron ball.

Then your "other" off-season moves are a washed up Calderon (WTF?) and Jeff Green (never been known for defense or 3pt shooting)??

Again, the best thing CLE did this off-season was the Irving deal. They got a potential 2nd scorer in IT and a good 3nD guy in crowder. Only problem is coach LUE is to ****ing stupid to even use Crowder correctly. Instead he continues to use JR Smith for 30 empty minutes a game and play Rose (who can't space the floor) instead of playing him with the 2nd unit where he could be your offense when Lebron is on the bench!

hugepatsfan
11-07-2017, 05:35 PM
Also, I agreed that LeBron didn't owe Kyrie anything, and vice versa.

LeBron's presence absorbs all the attention and focus of the front office and all they ever want to do is make sure he's happy, on and off the court. Can't blame Kyrie for wanting a new chapter for his career where every waking moment on and off the court for his team isn't about LeBron. Can't blame LeBron (arguably top 3-all time or GOAT or whatever) for being such a larger than life presence.

Thems the breaks. I don't fault LeBron nor Kyrie. Hopefully we can contend one more year (or more depending on how IT returns and if we can get star talent for the Brk pick) but eventually we'll decline and need a rebuild - like every single other team.

Pretty much this. Everything revolves around Lebron on the court. Kyrie's been pretty clear that he wanted to be in a better team environment... both in terms of everyone playing off of each rather than just "get in where you fit in" around one guy and also in terms of talking about yourselves as a team rather than Lebron always being so self-centered. He just didn't like playing with Lebron. It's like having bad co-workers - makes you less happy at even an otherwise great job. So he wanted to go somewhere else.

Celticsfan2007
11-07-2017, 05:39 PM
Eh, there wasn't much more the front office could've done. I don't like to play the "If" game but the Cavs could very well be 2-1 in the finals in the last 3 years if Durant isn't a *****. Hell, maybe 3-0 if not for Kyrie + Love injuries in 2015 (or even 0-3 if not for A, B, C, D during the 2016 finals). My point is that they had a contender for the last 3 years.

What you're seeing now is them on the back end of that contention. While LeBron is still the best player in the world, he can't carry them on both sides of the ball. Kyrie's trade request was sudden, but the return they got (Crowder, Zizic, IT, Brk 1st) wasn't bad at all for a guy who publicly wanted to be traded. And with that in mind you can't really fault the front office for signing Rose to a minimum contract, nor can you really fault them for bringing in Wade (perhaps to make LeBron happy) for a minimum contract.

All the other signings (TT, Shump, JR) were obviously done to make LeBron happy with his 1+1 deals. Pretty sure most front offices would make those same moves if they were running the Cavs.

Who would you have brought in instead for a minimum contract? Anyone of any value got paid more than that.

It really falls back on Gilbert, I guess. He AXED his GM right before the draft...then goes on to make moves for "name" players but that don't fit Lebron ball scheme. Rose and Wade are TREMENDOUS VALUE for the minimum in a vacuum but do they really help the team?

If your the GM or ownership you have to have the balls to go and find GUYS WHO FIT. ****** analogy but CLE is a great example of "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians"

Vee-Rex
11-07-2017, 05:49 PM
It really falls back on Gilbert, I guess. He AXED his GM right before the draft...then goes on to make moves for "name" players but that don't fit Lebron ball scheme. Rose and Wade are TREMENDOUS VALUE for the minimum in a vacuum but do they really help the team?

If your the GM or ownership you have to have the balls to go and find GUYS WHO FIT. ****** analogy but CLE is a great example of "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians"

This is perhaps very true, and I feel what you're saying. He should've signed/extended David Griffin. Huge mistake.

I'd definitely like to see the full product (fully healthy IT - who btw seems to be progressing VERY well and could be back in early-mid December) with a healthy Tristan Thompson before we draw any premature conclusions about the ability of the roster. It has been a tumultuous 10 games full of injuries, lack of effort, and crazy rotations with the Cavs only having 7 guys from last year's roster.

ewing
11-07-2017, 05:49 PM
Based on what we heard before the Celtics trade. Kyrie would have stayed, no questions asked. I don't think Kyrie hated Lebron. I think Kyrie saw the writing on the wall when Lebron didn't answer. Now the reason why i'm asking this is there are people that believe Lebron might stay. Thats wy i'm asking did Lebron mess up. If your staying then why did you run Kyrie out of Cleveland.

he got smacked finals and true to form he started thinking about greener pastures. If you look a gift horse in the mouth enough times it might bite you. In this case he was still pretty lucky b/c they got a pretty damn good return.

j-bay
11-07-2017, 05:49 PM
Pretty much this. Everything revolves around Lebron on the court. Kyrie's been pretty clear that he wanted to be in a better team environment... both in terms of everyone playing off of each rather than just "get in where you fit in" around one guy and also in terms of talking about yourselves as a team rather than Lebron always being so self-centered. He just didn't like playing with Lebron. It's like having bad co-workers - makes you less happy at even an otherwise great job. So he wanted to go somewhere else.

Based on what we heard before the Celtics trade. Kyrie would have stayed, no questions asked. I don't think Kyrie hated Lebron. I think Kyrie saw the writing on the wall when Lebron didn't answer. Now the reason why i'm asking this is there are people that believe Lebron might stay. Thats why i'm asking did Lebron mess up. If your staying then why did you run Kyrie out of Cleveland.

JordansBulls
11-07-2017, 10:13 PM
Lebron messed up with Kyrie. Cavs were Kyrie's team and Kyrie was the one who won the game 7 for them.

smith&wesson
11-07-2017, 10:47 PM
Lebron didn't wanna tell Kyrie that he leaving again ...

Or Lebron told Kyrie he is leaving for sure

Or Lebron told Kyrie he's signing with the Celtics next year

Giannis94
11-07-2017, 10:52 PM
Honestly not sure who runs that organization due to the dysfunction. Probably a mix of him and gilbert if we're being real with ourselves.

nastynice
11-07-2017, 11:26 PM
The question the media is asking is did the Cavs mess up the Kyrie trade. Wrong question. Both Kyrie himself and Lebron said the reason Kyrie left was because Kyrie need a change. This is only half true. It seems like Kyrie only left when Lebron wasn't giving any details about his future. For a guy who was going to give Kyrie the keys to Cavs, it sure doesn't seem like Lebron respected Kyrie like he does a Dwayne Wade or Chris Paul. In his first interview after the trade, he called Kyrie a kid. All Lebron had to do is say "Yes Kyrie i'm staying", even if he is lying and he doesn't know. Now instead of being kings if the EC right now, you got to hope IT is healthy and you got to deal with Kyrie. So i will ask again. The question isn't did the Cavs mess up. The question is did Lebron **** up?

The thing is, you can't blame lebron for not wanting to commit to the cavs. If he honestly doesn't know, its hard to fault the guy for saying so. If he said he'd stay and then leave, that would be a whole new can of worms. I completely understand Kyrie's perspective, and how he felt lebron put himself over the team in some respects, so I don't blame Kyrie for just wanting to be out. Its just a bad situation tho, you can't hold that against lebron for not committing.

nastynice
11-07-2017, 11:34 PM
Cool. Your talking about 2 and 3 years ago rosters. This thread is about THIS SEASON and about Kyrie not being there.



I hate what KD did, but sorry I'm not buying into the narrative that KD signing with GS had ANY EFFECT on the Cavs off season moves this summer. KD signed 2 years ago, Cavs FO has had plenty of time to adapt and adjust... they just made poor moves and signed bad contracts. Don't confuse GS fortunes with CLE lack of ability to function as good franchise.



Agree 100%. I actually think the one GOOD MOVE that CLE made this offseason was the Irving trade. Celtics got RAPED in terms of value for the short term.

Cleveland ****ed up by:

Re-signing - Thompson (doesn't fit todays NBA or GS), JR Smith (horrible contract), Korver (can still shoot but overpaid and bad defensively) and Shumpert (decent player but poor contract)

Going out and sign washed up players like Rose and Wade with expectations that they can be key rotation players on a team that needs DEFENSE AND 3PT SHOOTERS to play Lebron ball.

Then your "other" off-season moves are a washed up Calderon (WTF?) and Jeff Green (never been known for defense or 3pt shooting)??

Again, the best thing CLE did this off-season was the Irving deal. They got a potential 2nd scorer in IT and a good 3nD guy in crowder. Only problem is coach LUE is to ****ing stupid to even use Crowder correctly. Instead he continues to use JR Smith for 30 empty minutes a game and play Rose (who can't space the floor) instead of playing him with the 2nd unit where he could be your offense when Lebron is on the bench!


Solid post, the crux of the cavs problems are those contracts given to those players you mentioned, overpaying for guys like that is what got them in a tight situation to begin with.

If you have lebron surrounded by players who are all playing worth their contract, they would have nothing to worry about regarding the east, and legitimate shot vs anyone from the west.

*unless the dubs start turning into what I think they are capable of turning into. If that happens, then nevermind the "anyone" from the west :smoking:

Scoots
11-07-2017, 11:47 PM
LeBron is an egomaniac and it bit him in the *** a little.

This. The idea that LeBron doesn't owe anyone anything goes against the whole idea of being a teammate. I understand why LeBron did what he did to keep his options open. That said him being a passive aggressive jerk on a semi-regular basis can't be fun, add to that the uncertainty about next year and people wanting out is not really a surprise.

TrueFan420
11-08-2017, 12:17 AM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

This is all types of stupid... Yes he does. Im not starting who is or isn't the GOAT but this is a TEAM game. You don't win anything without your teammates no matter how good you are individually. You don't just give out respect for no reason. Respect needs to be earned but that's 1 a two way street (which goes beyond on court talent) and 2 a necessity in any TEAM sport.

Giannis94
11-08-2017, 12:45 AM
Better question is why the cavs didn't recruit Stephen curry like they did lebron. When he's clearly the best player born in Akron

KnicksorBust
11-08-2017, 12:43 PM
Will LeBron stay in Cleveland for the rest of his career?

Giannis94
11-08-2017, 02:46 PM
Will LeBron stay in Cleveland for the rest of his career?

No.. Destined for GSW or MKE.

Celticsfan2007
11-08-2017, 06:28 PM
This is all types of stupid... Yes he does. Im not starting who is or isn't the GOAT but this is a TEAM game. You don't win anything without your teammates no matter how good you are individually. You don't just give out respect for no reason. Respect needs to be earned but that's 1 a two way street (which goes beyond on court talent) and 2 a necessity in any TEAM sport.

Can someone decifer this post?

PropheticGeius
11-08-2017, 07:05 PM
The beef between LeBron and Kyrene was completely fabricated.

LeBron did his homey Irving a solid by getting him out of Cleveland before he left himself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SfgiantsJD3
11-08-2017, 07:21 PM
Can someone decifer this post?

This is all types of stupid...
Yes he does.
I am not stating who is or isn't the GOAT but this is a TEAM game.

You don't win anything without your teammates no matter how good you are individually.

You don't just give out respect for no reason.
Respect needs to be earned but that's
1) a two way street (which goes beyond on court talent)
and
2) a necessity in any TEAM sport.

j-bay
11-09-2017, 07:37 PM
The thing is, you can't blame lebron for not wanting to commit to the cavs. If he honestly doesn't know, its hard to fault the guy for saying so. If he said he'd stay and then leave, that would be a whole new can of worms. I completely understand Kyrie's perspective, and how he felt lebron put himself over the team in some respects, so I don't blame Kyrie for just wanting to be out. Its just a bad situation tho, you can't hold that against lebron for not committing.

This is true. But the comments that struck me. Either Lebron is oblivious or he knew exactly what he did wrong. My comments in bold.


ďI had a ton of emotions,Ē James said. ďI was wondering if there was something I could have did better to make him not want to be traded(I don't know maybe give him some thoughts on where you stand in Cleveland). Is it the way the season finished (with a loss to Golden State in The Finals), or was it me coming back in the first place or the coaching changes or the GM change (from David Griffin to Koby Altman)? I had so many different emotions go through my head(Really Lebron?!?! Really?!?!).

ďI tried to do whatever I could to help the kid(Well if you called him kid in his time here, i'm sure it didn't help) be the best player he could be, try to help him be a better leader, a better scorer, a better floor general, a better defender, a better passer getting guys involved. I tried to give him everything, as much as the DNA as I could. At some point, when he was ready to take over the keys, I was ready to give them to him(Suurrree you ready to give the keys him. Yes Kyrie would have got the keys, but it would have been too late. Think of the Cavs as nice, awesome car. By the time Kyrie gets those keys, that car will be trashed.


http://www.chroniclet.com/cavs-notes/2017/09/25/Is-Dwyane-Wade-s-next-stop-Cleveland.html

At the time of this article i thought Lebron was LA bound. Now i think he stay. Gilbert can't say no to Lebron. Lebron will bring all his buddies to Cleveland and the Cavs will look like a mess in 6-7 years.

Jamiecballer
11-09-2017, 08:27 PM
It really falls back on Gilbert, I guess. He AXED his GM right before the draft...then goes on to make moves for "name" players but that don't fit Lebron ball scheme. Rose and Wade are TREMENDOUS VALUE for the minimum in a vacuum but do they really help the team?

If your the GM or ownership you have to have the balls to go and find GUYS WHO FIT. ****** analogy but CLE is a great example of "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians"

now there's a racist phrase that really needs to come back

flea
11-09-2017, 10:07 PM
now there's a racist phrase that really needs to come back

Is it racist against white people to say "too many generals and not enough soldiers?" Trying to get my newspeak down.

PickleRick
11-09-2017, 11:09 PM
No.

I love Kyrie but Lebron is the GOAT. He doesn't need to respect anyone not even Kyrie. However, it goes both ways. Kyrie doesn't owe anything to LeBron either. For the first time in Lebron's career, he got "Lebroned".

I don't fault the GOAT for his teams miserable situation. I fault the inept Cavaliers ownership and front office for not putting a better product on the floor. Their problem against the Warriors last year was never addressed... defense. Instead, they went out and signed a bunch of 30 something guys on the back 9's of their careers with "names". The team on the court is old, slow and full of BAD long term contracts. All that being said, they will be fine come the playoffs and will undoubtedly still be in the ECF.

He isnít the freaking goat, good god man. Also, at what point do you earn the right to be disrespectful to others? Your post is everything thatís wrong with modern society.

nastynice
11-10-2017, 02:19 AM
This is true. But the comments that struck me. Either Lebron is oblivious or he knew exactly what he did wrong. My comments in bold.



http://www.chroniclet.com/cavs-notes/2017/09/25/Is-Dwyane-Wade-s-next-stop-Cleveland.html

At the time of this article i thought Lebron was LA bound. Now i think he stay. Gilbert can't say no to Lebron. Lebron will bring all his buddies to Cleveland and the Cavs will look like a mess in 6-7 years.

I donít think lebron did anything wrong. He just underestimated how confident kyrie is in himself and how he wants to write his own story, not just be a role player in someone elseís.

Good for Irving, he is killing it in Boston, watching him so far I donít think anyone could blame the guy for wanting to leave. Seems like heís having a blast. And he still has a costar ready to join