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View Full Version : Philly and Okafor: Thoughts?



JasonJohnHorn
11-02-2017, 07:08 PM
Seems like this franchise is doing the dirty to Okafor.

I realize the team doesn't feel like they need him, and that's fine (though moronic in my opinion: they need an insurance policy for Mr. Glass). But if you aren't going to use a talented young player like that, and you've shot yourself in the foot on the trade market by not playing him, just let him go.

This guy could be making a contribution to a team and developing as a player. Leaving him on the end of the bench seems unprofessional to me.

That said, I understand that they don't want to 'give him to another team', but it's not like these guys are going to be competing to a title. Losing him isn't going to bit them in the @$$ this year, and he's free to go after that. All they are doing is ruining their reputation among players and discouraging free agents from looking at this team.

More-Than-Most
11-02-2017, 07:13 PM
They are doing him really dirty... In fact this is all colangelo and the tool that he is.... Okafor is dreadful.. Always has been and always will be.. He is one of the worst defenders ever... he was lazy and never tried to work on his game but he did slim down and has said all the right things and handled this amazingly well... he is flat out being shafted by colangelo and its sad and disgusting.

IndyRealist
11-02-2017, 07:18 PM
Play him. Up his value, get him gone. The Pacers did this with Jamaal Tinsley and the NBAPA got involved.

FOXHOUND
11-02-2017, 07:46 PM
Common sense says that trading him during the offseason or camp/preseason, so his new team had time to evaluate him and decide whether to pick up his option, was their last chance at getting any respectable value for him. They have definitely done him dirty and at the same time have done themselves no favors on his return.

Oh well, he's going to end up somewhere and get his Nurkic on either way.

Scoots
11-02-2017, 07:54 PM
At this point they could only really trade him to a bottom feeder team for a 2nd round pick. There are not many teams who use a style for a low post scorer who doesn't contribute on the other end.

FOXHOUND
11-02-2017, 08:04 PM
At this point they could only really trade him to a bottom feeder team for a 2nd round pick. There are not many teams who use a style for a low post scorer who doesn't contribute on the other end.

Atlanta, who has no long term prospect at C and three 1st round picks this year (ATL, MIN, HOU), seems like a good option to punt their 2nd rounder for him. Then they can just use their pick on Doncic.

Schroder
Doncic
Prince
Collins
Okafor

Seems nice.

warfelg
11-02-2017, 08:16 PM
At this point they could only really trade him to a bottom feeder team for a 2nd round pick. There are not many teams who use a style for a low post scorer who doesn't contribute on the other end.

Sounds like a perfect fit for the Cavs. :rimshot:

Kyben36
11-02-2017, 08:57 PM
Philly makes no sense. And also **** them for the way they have treated this kid. You drafted him and never gave hin a shot.

But really. Decline his last year. But don't want to release him. Not taking his last year. Is saying we don't want you bere.

Then we he askes to be let go. Because you are not playing him. And he isn't wanted. You won't because you want something of value back. For a guy you don't play. Dont want. And have declined a year of a rok scale contract.

Im also sorry but how stupud is philly declining a year of his contract. Especilly if you plan to trade hin for something. Thst year has value

warfelg
11-02-2017, 09:07 PM
Philly makes no sense. And also **** them for the way they have treated this kid. You drafted him and never gave hin a shot.

But really. Decline his last year. But don't want to release him. Not taking his last year. Is saying we don't want you bere.

Then we he askes to be let go. Because you are not playing him. And he isn't wanted. You won't because you want something of value back. For a guy you don't play. Dont want. And have declined a year of a rok scale contract.

Im also sorry but how stupud is philly declining a year of his contract. Especilly if you plan to trade hin for something. Thst year has value

Sorry but never gave him a shot?

He started his entire rookie year, and we marginalized Noel to make it happen. When Embiid came back, Okafor was the one given a chance to play with him over Noel. When Embiid was out for rest, Okafor was the one to start. He was given a shot, he wasn't good.

People want to seem to continually put this on the Sixers.....but what if he was never good in the first place?

More-Than-Most
11-02-2017, 09:08 PM
they did give him a shot so that is utter ********... he was trash... did not grow or evolve... He was horrid defensively and didnt ever dish it out when doubled and forced everything... Everyone else evolved and got better he literally got worse and had many chances.... he finally lost weight this offseason and helped out his medical issues... this year they have did him dirty... over the long haul he got what he deserved for being the crap player he was.

homie564
11-02-2017, 09:19 PM
I donít get it though... at worst heís a pretty good rebounder and a size mismatch... much worse players than him play good sized roles on marginal to mediocre teams and much worse players have a rotational role on really good teams...I just donít really get why Philly refuses to use him for what he is... thereís some good that can come from using him in the right situations... Does philly just not know how to maximize him as a player?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

warfelg
11-02-2017, 09:29 PM
I donít get it though... at worst heís a pretty good rebounder and a size mismatch... much worse players than him play good sized roles on marginal to mediocre teams and much worse players have a rotational role on really good teams...I just donít really get why Philly refuses to use him for what he is... thereís some good that can come from using him in the right situations... Does philly just not know how to maximize him as a player?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's not that great of a rebounder. I can go through and find all the articles that talk about it and how he doesn't really box out, he more just watches the ball and misses a ton of rebounds because he doesn't set up to rebound.

He would actually be about 50th in guards for TRB%

lol, please
11-02-2017, 09:31 PM
I'd like him on the Warriors. Would be nice to have a reliable inside scorer when shooters are cold.

Scoots
11-02-2017, 09:46 PM
Sounds like a perfect fit for the Cavs. :rimshot:

Do they have any of their 2nd round picks left to trade?

Scoots
11-02-2017, 09:49 PM
I'd like him on the Warriors. Would be nice to have a reliable inside scorer when shooters are cold.

No

warfelg
11-02-2017, 09:54 PM
Do they have any of their 2nd round picks left to trade?

Iíll take a fake 2nd.

GREATNESS ONE
11-02-2017, 10:21 PM
Warriors, Spurs, or Celtics would be awesome for this kid. I don't think he's done yet and can contribute positively to a good team.

Kyben36
11-02-2017, 10:59 PM
Sorry but never gave him a shot?

He started his entire rookie year, and we marginalized Noel to make it happen. When Embiid came back, Okafor was the one given a chance to play with him over Noel. When Embiid was out for rest, Okafor was the one to start. He was given a shot, he wasn't good.

People want to seem to continually put this on the Sixers.....but what if he was never good in the first place?

Given a shot to play my butt. He had his minutes cut to a bench role was not utilized at all after his rok season.he is a post up big and you guys don't use him as such since his rok season. And as far as his attitude. Rebounding. Everything else. Your team has been more interested in loosing than developing tallent. Okafor included. This tank directly affected many of your young players. Noek. Okafor both had potential. But neither were given the chance to win. Gain experience and confidence in thst system.

And back to the point at they dennied a year of rok deal contract but want to trade him for something. How does that make sense. Nobody is giving up much for a FA. If he had two years his value increases. If he was playing and getting shots his value would increase as well. Not throwing hin into no mans land of a bench role. Its just stupid.

He is a guy who could average 18 a game and have real value in the nba. Fact is he is averaging 10 on 10 attempts last season. If he was getting the 15 he got in his rok season he mightnhave real value. But he is only getting 20 minutes and a lack of touches to support his play style.

I mean. U knew what he was coming in. Why draft hin if you don't use hin thar way

warfelg
11-03-2017, 07:18 AM
Given a shot to play my butt. He had his minutes cut to a bench role was not utilized at all after his rok season.


I stopped right here because this is blatantly wrong.

Minutes were down 7 per game, because Embiid (who is far better started). Still got 33 starts in 50 available games.

hugepatsfan
11-03-2017, 09:21 AM
I'd take a flier on him but in the BOS forum but I broke how I think he'd make us worse if he went into the rotation once Morris comes back:

Kyrie / Rozier
Brown / Smart
Tatum / Morris
Horford / Semi
Baynes / Theis

Okafor would take the spot of Theis and Semi. But Semi is an amazing versatile defender even as a rookie with an outside shot (albeit it one that hasn't consistently fallen yet but it's a tool he has). Theis is using his length to rebound and defend effectively and has a solid enough outside shot for a big. They just play better complimentary games than Okafor ever projects to.

Still though, talent is undeniable with Okafor. If the cost is practically nothing it wouldn't hurt to take a flier. If it pans out that's huge upside but I just don't see it with him.

warfelg
11-03-2017, 09:32 AM
I'd take a flier on him but in the BOS forum but I broke how I think he'd make us worse if he went into the rotation once Morris comes back:

Kyrie / Rozier
Brown / Smart
Tatum / Morris
Horford / Semi
Baynes / Theis

Okafor would take the spot of Theis and Semi. But Semi is an amazing versatile defender even as a rookie with an outside shot (albeit it one that hasn't consistently fallen yet but it's a tool he has). Theis is using his length to rebound and defend effectively and has a solid enough outside shot for a big. They just play better complimentary games than Okafor ever projects to.

Still though, talent is undeniable with Okafor. If the cost is practically nothing it wouldn't hurt to take a flier. If it pans out that's huge upside but I just don't see it with him.

Okafor will always be one of those games that has a decent game 1/10 times. Enough to make you see the individual talent, not enough to make you 100% buy in because it might come in a loss.

hugepatsfan
11-03-2017, 09:38 AM
Okafor will always be one of those games that has a decent game 1/10 times. Enough to make you see the individual talent, not enough to make you 100% buy in because it might come in a loss.

Yeah to me he's just a hollow stats guy. I said this even way back after his first year. He has TERRIFIC post moves. But he doesn't incorporate his offensive skills into a team concept. Doesn't pass. Doesn't space the floor for others. And then he's a poor defender/rebounder.

If he's ever successful in the NBA I think it's going to be as a bench player who plays with limited offensive guys that can shoot. You just space the floor for him against backups and let him go to work in spurts to keep the offense moving while your starters rest. And my concern with Boston is that we don't have that kind of second unit nor does Stevens like that style. SO I'm just not sure it would ever work out.

Still, it's not impossible that he could learn a team concept on offense and maybe pan out. So for nothing, why the F not take a flier on him, ya know?

warfelg
11-03-2017, 09:44 AM
Yeah to me he's just a hollow stats guy. I said this even way back after his first year. He has TERRIFIC post moves. But he doesn't incorporate his offensive skills into a team concept. Doesn't pass. Doesn't space the floor for others. And then he's a poor defender/rebounder.

If he's ever successful in the NBA I think it's going to be as a bench player who plays with limited offensive guys that can shoot. You just space the floor for him against backups and let him go to work in spurts to keep the offense moving while your starters rest. And my concern with Boston is that we don't have that kind of second unit nor does Stevens like that style. SO I'm just not sure it would ever work out.

Still, it's not impossible that he could learn a team concept on offense and maybe pan out. So for nothing, why the F not take a flier on him, ya know?

You wonít get an argument from me. Iím the driver of the Okafors a bust bus.

JasonJohnHorn
11-03-2017, 09:48 AM
Warriors, Spurs, or Celtics would be awesome for this kid. I don't think he's done yet and can contribute positively to a good team.

Those are three perfect teams actually. I feel like with the right coaching staff and a commitment to D, he can be a great player. Those are big ifs of course.


I don't think that D is easier that offense, but I do believe it requires less inherent skill. Kyrie is a great example of that. He simply was not a good defender in Cleveland, and I don't think the coach staff there ever pressed him on it. This season, this his O game is actually not as good, his defensive game is FAR better. That's just coaching and effort.

I feel like Kerr and Pop's coaching staff and system would put a higher expectation on Okafor and give him the guidance he needs. Boston as well, as they've done with Kyrie.


You leave a talented young player in a losing situation for three years, and have him facing injuries and a franchise that puts no emphasis on winning, and then you see a revolving door of the young talent they were supposedly 'developing' to excuse the tanking, and what do you get?

I'm not saying that the Sixers should have hung onto Nerlens and MCW, or Okafor, but when your entire franchise just wasted four seasons to get those guys and none of them are around and you've essentially got nothing back in return for them, well... you've kind of waste four years.

And it's not like the team has any confidence that Embiid is going to stay healthy.

Scoots
11-03-2017, 10:40 AM
Warriors, Spurs, or Celtics would be awesome for this kid. I don't think he's done yet and can contribute positively to a good team.

For Kerr and Pop if you don't play D you don't play. You don't have to be a great defender but you MUST do your job on D, and I doubt The Warriors or Spurs would give him much run.

Scoots
11-03-2017, 10:43 AM
Those are three perfect teams actually. I feel like with the right coaching staff and a commitment to D, he can be a great player. Those are big ifs of course.


I don't think that D is easier that offense, but I do believe it requires less inherent skill. Kyrie is a great example of that. He simply was not a good defender in Cleveland, and I don't think the coach staff there ever pressed him on it. This season, this his O game is actually not as good, his defensive game is FAR better. That's just coaching and effort.

I feel like Kerr and Pop's coaching staff and system would put a higher expectation on Okafor and give him the guidance he needs. Boston as well, as they've done with Kyrie.


You leave a talented young player in a losing situation for three years, and have him facing injuries and a franchise that puts no emphasis on winning, and then you see a revolving door of the young talent they were supposedly 'developing' to excuse the tanking, and what do you get?

I'm not saying that the Sixers should have hung onto Nerlens and MCW, or Okafor, but when your entire franchise just wasted four seasons to get those guys and none of them are around and you've essentially got nothing back in return for them, well... you've kind of waste four years.

And it's not like the team has any confidence that Embiid is going to stay healthy.

I agree to some extent, but look at JaVale McGee ... he wants to play D and he's in great shape and busts his butt to do the job, but he doesn't have the instincts/fundamentals to be a very good defender in year 2 on the Warriors and as a result gets very limited time on the floor ... Okafor doesn't have the athleticism, the desire, OR the instincts/fundamentals on D.

TheDish87
11-03-2017, 10:46 AM
i get not buying him out but just trade him, its not that hard. We traded Noel for nothing after not picking up his option and the league knew we didnt want him, this is the same exact thing with Okafor so it makes no sense. Even losing the trade has no impact on the future of this team whatsoever. im not saying hes good but he isnt nearly as bad as some people try to make him out to be or advanced stats suggest. Dude does have game, he just never fit whit this team and its style. He has handled all of this like a pro and hasnt been a disruption and still actively cheering the team on fro the becnh, etc. He just wants to play ball. He worked his *** off to drop a lot of weight and get in better shape, i wanna see it how translates.

Westbrook36
11-03-2017, 12:29 PM
Those are three perfect teams actually. I feel like with the right coaching staff and a commitment to D, he can be a great player. Those are big ifs of course.


I don't think that D is easier that offense, but I do believe it requires less inherent skill. Kyrie is a great example of that. He simply was not a good defender in Cleveland, and I don't think the coach staff there ever pressed him on it. This season, this his O game is actually not as good, his defensive game is FAR better. That's just coaching and effort.

I feel like Kerr and Pop's coaching staff and system would put a higher expectation on Okafor and give him the guidance he needs. Boston as well, as they've done with Kyrie.


You leave a talented young player in a losing situation for three years, and have him facing injuries and a franchise that puts no emphasis on winning, and then you see a revolving door of the young talent they were supposedly 'developing' to excuse the tanking, and what do you get?

I'm not saying that the Sixers should have hung onto Nerlens and MCW, or Okafor, but when your entire franchise just wasted four seasons to get those guys and none of them are around and you've essentially got nothing back in return for them, well... you've kind of waste four years.

And it's not like the team has any confidence that Embiid is going to stay healthy.

Brett Brown is from SA..he's been a hell of a developmental coach that gets the best out of his players. He's seen improvement from various players -- Covington, McConnell, Staukus, Holmes.

I can only imagine Okafor in a Steve Kerr system, no passing/defense/rebounding/spacing? What a perfect fit!

Revolving door? Barely..Noel is the only talented part that they let walk away thus far. The whole GM change had a part to due with that and it's clear that Noel doesn't have the greatest value with him accepting his RFA QO..and he wants to be paid max type money.

We didn't waste any seasons to obtain Noel, he was the result of the beginning of the process with the Jrue Holiday trade. That team was going absolutely nowhere fast after the Bynum injury. Nor did we waste any time obtaining MCW with our own selection that year who was then rightfully traded for the LAL lotto selection. Do all players hit? Absolutely not

Okafor is really the only example that fits that..and he didn't help himself with his play or effort. He definitely hasn't been getting the right end of everything that's for certain. Think the Suns wasted years after drafting Len or Bender? How about the Lakers with Russell and Randle? Every single losing team will draft bust players.

Would say they have some confidence given his new contract

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-03-2017, 12:44 PM
Celtics hoping Okafor gets a buyout. Maybe Bulls as well.

Forever35
11-03-2017, 12:52 PM
Okafor will always be one of those games that has a decent game 1/10 times. Enough to make you see the individual talent, not enough to make you 100% buy in because it might come in a loss.

Do you ever think that maybe it's your coach..??? :shrug:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14278266/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-defends-jahlil-okafor-philadelphia-76ers-one-greatest-kids-ever

http://www.espn.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/13136594/mike-krzyzewski-says-jahlil-okafor-justise-winslow-chance-stars

http://jimrome.com/2015/02/26/coach-k-on-jahlil-okafor-hes-as-good-as-anybody-ive-coached-at-duke/

If the interest from Boston is true, I'm sure Stevens (who is very close to Coach K) had conversations about him... I'm sure Coach K was in the C's ears in regards to Tatum...

warfelg
11-03-2017, 12:58 PM
Do you ever think that maybe it's your coach..??? :shrug:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14278266/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-defends-jahlil-okafor-philadelphia-76ers-one-greatest-kids-ever

http://www.espn.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/13136594/mike-krzyzewski-says-jahlil-okafor-justise-winslow-chance-stars

http://jimrome.com/2015/02/26/coach-k-on-jahlil-okafor-hes-as-good-as-anybody-ive-coached-at-duke/

If the interest from Boston is true, I'm sure Stevens (who is very close to Coach K) had conversations about him... I'm sure Coach K was in the C's ears in regards to Tatum...

I donít think itís our coach for reasons Westbrook36 said and more.

Letís see. A college coach supporting his good players. Yea thatís never happened. Also lol his two highly regarded stars that year stink.

Firefistus
11-03-2017, 01:45 PM
At this point his value is so low they won't get anything for him. Either trade for pennies or buy him out. Not having him play just drops his stock.

mrblisterdundee
11-03-2017, 04:47 PM
I coud see Okafor being a solid bench scorer a la Greg Monroe, but I'd put him third in Philadelphia's center pecking order after Embiid and Holmes. They should definitely let him go, even if they only get a second-round pick back.

flea
11-03-2017, 05:38 PM
He definitely isn't being given a fair shot, but the Sixers don't need him. I'm sure he'll get a shot but it is sort of unfair to draft a guy as good as he is with no plan whatsoever to use him. I get that it's The Processô but it's still a pretty crappy way to treat guys. Hopefully they trade him before Christmas.

As for his rebounding and defense, what do you expect? Those weren't his strengths out of high school but he got markedly better in college and won a natty as his team's best player because of it. His numbers really aren't out of line with other young bigs.

So far he's got 81 games between his 2 years, so about a full season. Compare that with LMA's 2nd year Per 100 Poss stats:

Okafor: 27.2/11.1/2.2 with 2 blocks and 3.9 TO on 51.2% FG in 2747 total minutes.

Aldridge: 27.8/11.9/2.5 with 1.9 blocks and 2.6 TO on 48.6% FG in 2649 total minutes.

Keep in mind that was LMA's sophomore year only at age 22, while Okafor's numbers cover his rookie and sophomore years as a young 20-21 year old (Okafor did only 1 year in college while LMA did 2 years at UT). Even if LMA is Okafor's ceiling that's an AS and one of the best bigs in the game. I'd say Okafor has a very good shot at having at least a Nene type of career, which is definitely pretty good.

Point is, Sixers have done nothing but get in his way.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-03-2017, 07:28 PM
It's pretty dumb how they handled it. If he wasn't useful on your team, why would you hold out on trades knowing you wren't really going to play him.

You should've just traded him to Dallas instead.

Bostonjorge
11-03-2017, 08:46 PM
I think he will be a perfect fit in Boston. Stevens will get the best out of him.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2017, 10:05 AM
I think he will be a perfect fit in Boston. Stevens will get the best out of him.

He's got serious flaws in his game so not sure he'll ever pan out if he ends up in Boston, but I think Stevens is really asserting himself as the type of coach who will consistently get the best out of anyone.

warfelg
11-06-2017, 10:16 AM
He's got serious flaws in his game so not sure he'll ever pan out if he ends up in Boston, but I think Stevens is really asserting himself as the type of coach who will consistently get the best out of anyone.

I wouldnít 100% absolve Brett Brown because in some ways he seems very ďPops-ishĒ and one of them is ďhereís the system, run it.Ē

But on the flip side Brett has really helped quite a few guys develop their game. Look at how many guys even got a shot with us, and went on elsewhere to do well.

Jerami Grant developed a 3 ball. Luc Mah a Mbute became a 3nD player with us. Tim Frazier developed a PnR game with us. Ish Smith developed a jumper. Nerlens Noel developed an offensive game outside of dunks. Robert Covington became a decent 3 point option and an elite wing defender. Embiid learned to shoot. McConnell learned to shoot. Stauskas learned to do anything (basically). Richaun Holmes has developed.

So basically could Brett Brown have done some more on the court? Sure. But with so many players seeing development I think Okafor is in need for shouldering some of the blame here.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2017, 10:21 AM
I wouldnít 100% absolve Brett Brown because in some ways he seems very ďPops-ishĒ and one of them is ďhereís the system, run it.Ē

But on the flip side Brett has really helped quite a few guys develop their game. Look at how many guys even got a shot with us, and went on elsewhere to do well.

Jerami Grant developed a 3 ball. Luc Mah a Mbute became a 3nD player with us. Tim Frazier developed a PnR game with us. Ish Smith developed a jumper. Nerlens Noel developed an offensive game outside of dunks. Robert Covington became a decent 3 point option and an elite wing defender. Embiid learned to shoot. McConnell learned to shoot. Stauskas learned to do anything (basically). Richaun Holmes has developed.

So basically could Brett Brown have done some more on the court? Sure. But with so many players seeing development I think Okafor is in need for shouldering some of the blame here.

I like Brown. I wouldn't blame Okafor on him even a little bit. I wasn't hyping up Stevens to put down Brown at all. I think he's done a great job in a tough situation in Philly. I just think Stevens is better, that's all. I really think he's a special coach. His Xs and Os can be so variable depending on players and on a personal level he's able to really connect with guys in ways even the best coaches can't always do.

Stevens IMO was actually one of the biggest obstacles to Boston's rebuild in a sense because he took some scrub *** rosters to better records then they deserved his first couple of years, particularly that first year where it probably cost them Embiid/Wiggins/Parker and left them with Smart.

I don't have anything bad to say about Brown though and how he's handled Okafor. To me, it's on the FO for poor recognition that it wouldn't work and not selling earlier. They let him tank when I think it's been clear for at least a year now it wasn't going to work out. Wasted an asset IMO. But Brown I have nothing bad to say on unless we're comparing him to Stevens (or Pop, Carlisle, etc.) because as good as Brown is I just think some guys are better.

warfelg
11-06-2017, 10:37 AM
Oh I wasnt using it to compare Stevens to Brown.

I was showing Brown has developed a ton of guys, so the fact that Okafor didnít should lie at Okafors feet and not the coaches.

So I kinda wonder if a different coach would make a difference or if Okafor is just one of those guys you just have to try to find a way to make stuff around him work.

Like I canít tell you how many times Iíve been at a game and close enough to hear and Brett is yelling to entire possession ďJah MOVE. MOVE. NOW ROLL. PASS IT. PASS IT. DOUBLE. DOUBLE!!!Ē Yet Jah still does his go to the high post. Get the ball. Palm for 4 seconds. Spin outside with 1 dribble and put up a little baby fade hook. He doesnít play with his head up. Heís still tops for centers in his time on the court in seconds possessed per possessions, dribbles per possession, and in/out pass ratio (as in its terrible).

So I question how much is that really going to change with a different coach.

And if it does change does that make him a pos for never giving the effort in the first place?

GREATNESS ONE
11-06-2017, 11:11 AM
Donít have time to look it up but didnít Okafor avg 17 & 7.5 in his rookie year?

hugepatsfan
11-06-2017, 11:18 AM
Oh I wasnt using it to compare Stevens to Brown.

I was showing Brown has developed a ton of guys, so the fact that Okafor didnít should lie at Okafors feet and not the coaches.

So I kinda wonder if a different coach would make a difference or if Okafor is just one of those guys you just have to try to find a way to make stuff around him work.

Like I canít tell you how many times Iíve been at a game and close enough to hear and Brett is yelling to entire possession ďJah MOVE. MOVE. NOW ROLL. PASS IT. PASS IT. DOUBLE. DOUBLE!!!Ē Yet Jah still does his go to the high post. Get the ball. Palm for 4 seconds. Spin outside with 1 dribble and put up a little baby fade hook. He doesnít play with his head up. Heís still tops for centers in his time on the court in seconds possessed per possessions, dribbles per possession, and in/out pass ratio (as in its terrible).

So I question how much is that really going to change with a different coach.

And if it does change does that make him a pos for never giving the effort in the first place?

I have all those same concerns. Here's why I'd like to give Stevens a chance though...

When we talk about coaches we all talk about two things: 1) X's and O's and 2) motivating players. But we always think of #2 as just hyping them up, giving pre-game speeches. To me, what really makes great coaches is the way you motivate by instilling mentality in players. You really just need to completely and wholly sell

To go to another sport, that's what I think makes BB great. He gets his gunners convinced that the way they cover punts is part of winning. The practice squadders to think that giving a good look in practice wins games. It's all about getting every single player on the team to buy 100% into their role and believe it's the difference between wins and losses.

That's what I see in Stevens. The way our out of rotation guys are already ready to step up when needed. The way guys sacrifice individual stats. The way he gets everyone to make an effort on defense, most notably IT and Kyrie who had other reputations coming in. That ability to almost mind control players like that to me is what makes him special.

So in relation to Okafor, I'd just like to see Stevens get a shot at working that magic on him too. Just kind of brain wash him into not thinking about his shots or playing time or how he's being used. Just go out there and give max effort. Just a total fresh start without the weight of expectations or worrying about proving he should stay in a rotation. I think if there's any hope for him you gotta wipe that mentality out and start just thinking about how you can contribute to winning rather than any individual goals or achievements. Stevens as I said is awesome at instilling that mentality so I'd just like to see him try.

I don't think Okafor will ever be great because of inherent limitations. But I do still believe he can be a useful piece particularly for bench scoring. So at what feels like will inevitably be basically no cost I'm down to take a flier.

TheDish87
11-06-2017, 11:55 AM
Donít have time to look it up but didnít Okafor avg 17 & 7.5 in his rookie year?

he did, everyone loved him early and then as more and more advanced stats got pushed and his D started to suffer a lot of people turned on him ignoring that he was on the focal point on one of the worst teams of all time.

IndyRealist
11-06-2017, 07:26 PM
he did, everyone loved him early and then as more and more advanced stats got pushed and his D started to suffer a lot of people turned on him ignoring that he was on the focal point on one of the worst teams of all time.

Outside of the Philly fanbase, I'm not sure who liked him early. Besides, that's what happens with sample size.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-07-2017, 08:35 AM
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The Hawks and Bulls have emerged as the most likely destinations for Jahlil Okafor

Portis or Mirotic?

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 08:45 AM
How come it's considered "doing Okafor wrong" if he is out of the rotation, but if it's any other 10-12th man who doesn't play then it is fine? I know he was a 3rd overall pick, and wants a trade, but he still has a job and is getting paid am I right? And he still gets to practice and get better doesn't he?

I like Okafor, but if you don't want every game and every minute he was in, please don't comment saying he isn't getting a fair shake. The team wasn't better with him on the court.

IndyRealist
11-07-2017, 09:01 AM
How come it's considered "doing Okafor wrong" if he is out of the rotation, but if it's any other 10-12th man who doesn't play then it is fine? I know he was a 3rd overall pick, and wants a trade, but he still has a job and is getting paid am I right? And he still gets to practice and get better doesn't he?

I like Okafor, but if you don't want every game and every minute he was in, please don't comment saying he isn't getting a fair shake. The team wasn't better with him on the court.

He can say the Sixers are hurting his future earnings by not playing him, damaging his reputation. Jamaal Tinsley made the same claim and the NBAPA and league office got involved, and forced the Pacers to buy him out.

Alayla
11-07-2017, 09:02 AM
he did, everyone loved him early and then as more and more advanced stats got pushed and his D started to suffer a lot of people turned on him ignoring that he was on the focal point on one of the worst teams of all time.

Never loved him took about 2 weeks of his first season for me to sour on him i liked the pick initially becuase no other picks made sense for that spot considered it relitively safe as he could later be moved "sadly he wasn't moved when he should have been" How you persistently hold value to a player so bad I have never understood. Even if he could manage a decent starters carrer somewhere he was an awful fit for us before he was even drafted and never made sense as a longterm fit he was always a square peg in a round hole.

warfelg
11-07-2017, 09:24 AM
Never loved him took about 2 weeks of his first season for me to sour on him i liked the pick initially becuase no other picks made sense for that spot considered it relitively safe as he could later be moved "sadly he wasn't moved when he should have been" How you persistently hold value to a player so bad I have never understood. Even if he could manage a decent starters carrer somewhere he was an awful fit for us before he was even drafted and never made sense as a longterm fit he was always a square peg in a round hole.

I dunno why but it makes me think of when he was in college and so many people insisted that he didn't play defense because Coach K told him not to and were defending his poor defense with just excuses of avoiding fouls, saving energy for offense, and so much other BS.

I was one of the few (I think) that saw right through that and just said he was bad at defense.

About the only thing from college that is different in the NBA is somehow he's become a worse passer. I'm not sure how that happened, but outside of that he's effectively the same exact player.

Kyben36
11-07-2017, 11:15 AM
How come it's considered "doing Okafor wrong" if he is out of the rotation, but if it's any other 10-12th man who doesn't play then it is fine? I know he was a 3rd overall pick, and wants a trade, but he still has a job and is getting paid am I right? And he still gets to practice and get better doesn't he?

I like Okafor, but if you don't want every game and every minute he was in, please don't comment saying he isn't getting a fair shake. The team wasn't better with him on the court.

Because he was a top pick. A top college player. And now isn't given a shot to grow.

Imagine a genius coning out of Harvard top of class. And a big Engendering company makes him a secretary. Not really a chance to showcase or grow his skills sitting and answering phone calls.

It would be a totally different thing if he was some sort of huge Bust right. But the guys is averaging 20 points per 36 over his carear. While his D might be an issue. And rebounding as well. There is all ways a spot ib the nba for a guy like that. Unless your on the 76ers.

warfelg
11-07-2017, 11:28 AM
He played 2700 minutes. Thatís more than enough time to grow. Heís also injured his meniscus 2 times in the 2700 minutes to boot.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 12:34 PM
Because he was a top pick. A top college player. And now isn't given a shot to grow.

Imagine a genius coning out of Harvard top of class. And a big Engendering company makes him a secretary. Not really a chance to showcase or grow his skills sitting and answering phone calls.

It would be a totally different thing if he was some sort of huge Bust right. But the guys is averaging 20 points per 36 over his carear. While his D might be an issue. And rebounding as well. There is all ways a spot ib the nba for a guy like that. Unless your on the 76ers.

Okay, since you're a Bulls fan, would you trade Markkanen for Okafor? Okafor was a top pick.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 12:37 PM
He can say the Sixers are hurting his future earnings by not playing him, damaging his reputation. Jamaal Tinsley made the same claim and the NBAPA and league office got involved, and forced the Pacers to buy him out.

So why doesn't every bench warmer in the NBA do this?

I'm sorry, but $5,000,000 this year to practice and preserve your body is not a bad deal. Free agency is a summer away. Everyone talks saying he is being done wrong, but no one wants to give anything for him? Can't have it both ways

Kyben36
11-07-2017, 01:28 PM
Okay, since you're a Bulls fan, would you trade Markkanen for Okafor? Okafor was a top pick.

No. Because Mark has 4 years left on his contract and okafor 1.stupid question. Mark also fits today's nba. Would i trade for Okafor. Yes. But asking for mark shows your own stupidity. Its a useless and absurd comment to make that adds nothing to the dialog. Nobody is going to give that up for a guy with one year who clearly. The 6ers have no interest in keeping. So much so. You declined his option for a 4th year of cheap play. Which in total honesty is uterly moronic.

What would i trade for him. I have said for a a Portis for okafor swap makes some sense. Personally. I view okafor as a Bench big who can proide a spark of offense. Unless he can improve defensivly. But i don't think the 6ers ever wanted to win his 1st two years anyway. So why should he give any effort. Its hard to know if he could get better. Because at this point when its their first time actually trying to be competitive. He is stuffed on the bench so deep he might as well be in the D league.

Its funny to me. Because its absurd to think he will get better on defense without reps. He is in his 3rd year but only played 1.25 seasons at best (one he started and there was no need to try to win. The other it was somewhere between playing and bench and again tanking.. ) he worked hard in the offsesson to get better. And he isnt even given a shot. Despite the fact their starting center plays every other game. So ideally he might at least be starting those games. But he has been driven to the depths of the bench so far he cant get PT.

I am willing to bet okafor finds a spot in the nba. Whether a starter or not we will have to see. But a post up scoring machine is something almost any team can use off the bench. If not in their starting lineup.

But seriously. What a dumb comment to make. Mark for okafor. Lets trade a top pick showing promise for a guy who you won't even let play. Lol.

Truth is. I would trade for okafor what i think he is now. A Bench C to provide a spark. If he can improve his defense and become a starting caliber center. Gr8. But then we would have to pay him to keep him.

This honestly reminds me of carlos boozer. Who was a bad defender. But did play because he could do some things on offense. If you think okafor cant be that. Then thats on you for trading a player. There are plenty of guys in the nba who dont play d or can't rebound. Brook Lopez made his carear of being a post up big. And is a starter. Yes his game has evolved. But who is to say okafor could not as well.

Kyben36
11-07-2017, 01:45 PM
So why doesn't every bench warmer in the NBA do this?

I'm sorry, but $5,000,000 this year to practice and preserve your body is not a bad deal. Free agency is a summer away. Everyone talks saying he is being done wrong, but no one wants to give anything for him? Can't have it both ways

You guys declined his 4th year. That's why. You guys have demanded more than he is worth thst is why. From what i hear you had offers last year. Declined them. At this point your holding hin hostage on your bench. He has made it clear he wants to play. And you guys are refusing to give him that shot. Or unwilling to let him at least audition for his future contract. He has every right to complain. Any player has the right to refuse to play if he is mistreated. And most agree the handling of Okafor has been just that. Unfortunatly he can not just tear up his contract and leave. The 6ers have to let him in order to go and play for another team. He could retire. But that does hin no good on next years deal. Im sure if possible Okafor would accept a buyout of mininun just to go and get PT so he can up his value on his new contract. But your FO is demanding he stay ridden to the bench till somebody trades some sort of asset for a 1 year player they don't want.

Do you understand that. If okafor said dont pay me just waive me. I want to play and up my value for my next contract. Your team would still say No and demand he stay until somebody forks over i guess Markannan according to you. Which is not going to happen.

You may not want to admit it. But keeping this kid. Who clearly has talent. Ridden to the bench is coating hin $ in his future. The 5 mil he is making is irrelivant when he may earn 10 mil more on his next contract if he can prove himself.

He is held hostage because of his contract and you guys are making thisbkid loose money due to some unreasonable trade demands.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 01:50 PM
No. Because Mark has 4 years left on his contract and okafor 1.stupid question. Mark also fits today's nba. Would i trade for Okafor. Yes. But asking for mark shows your own stupidity. Its a useless and absurd comment to make that adds nothing to the dialog. Nobody is going to give that up for a guy with one year who clearly. The 6ers have no interest in keeping. So much so. You declined his option for a 4th year of cheap play. Which in total honesty is uterly moronic.

What would i trade for him. I have said for a a Portis for okafor swap makes some sense. Personally. I view okafor as a Bench big who can proide a spark of offense. Unless he can improve defensivly. But i don't think the 6ers ever wanted to win his 1st two years anyway. So why should he give any effort. Its hard to know if he could get better. Because at this point when its their first time actually trying to be competitive. He is stuffed on the bench so deep he might as well be in the D league.

Its funny to me. Because its absurd to think he will get better on defense without reps. He is in his 3rd year but only played 1.25 seasons at best (one he started and there was no need to try to win. The other it was somewhere between playing and bench and again tanking.. ) he worked hard in the offsesson to get better. And he isnt even given a shot. Despite the fact their starting center plays every other game. So ideally he might at least be starting those games. But he has been driven to the depths of the bench so far he cant get PT.

I am willing to bet okafor finds a spot in the nba. Whether a starter or not we will have to see. But a post up scoring machine is something almost any team can use off the bench. If not in their starting lineup.

But seriously. What a dumb comment to make. Mark for okafor. Lets trade a top pick showing promise for a guy who you won't even let play. Lol.

Truth is. I would trade for okafor what i think he is now. A Bench C to provide a spark. If he can improve his defense and become a starting caliber center. Gr8. But then we would have to pay him to keep him.

This honestly reminds me of carlos boozer. Who was a bad defender. But did play because he could do some things on offense. If you think okafor cant be that. Then thats on you for trading a player. There are plenty of guys in the nba who dont play d or can't rebound. Brook Lopez made his carear of being a post up big. And is a starter. Yes his game has evolved. But who is to say okafor could not as well.


First of all, to take me asking that literally, is stupid. Obviously no one is making that deal.

Two, you can stop with the "you" and "you guys" stuff because I'm not on the team, or in the front office, nor do I work for the Sixers.

Third, it's a basketball thing. I get it he wants to play, I can appreciate it that. The Sixers have a veteran in Amir Johnson making over double the amount of money as Okafor, and a more athletic and energizer in Richaun Holmes.

Do I need to bring up the game logs from last year? When the Sixers played their best ball last year between mid December and January, they played much better and had a much better winning percentage in the games Okafor did not play. That is a FACT.

I get it, they declined his fourth year, and he's not playing. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have to live out his contract here until he becomes a free agent. If this case is considered one of the "rigors of the NBA", well geez they have it quite easy. $5 million, no one here is hurting, so relax.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 01:53 PM
I'm sorry, but I really do not care whether his potential to make more money in the future is affected or not. If he has a spot in the NBA like you claim, then it won't be a problem. Will these GMs just forget that he can play and has an offensive skillset? I don't think so.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 01:57 PM
And dude like I said, I LIKE OKAFOR! I wanted more than anything for him to be a great player in this league, he just isn't. I don't know what to tell you. I watch every game, do you? Probably not. He doesn't make the team better. And sorry if it's insensitive to not care he can't audition for his next contract or that he isn't cut from the team.

IndyRealist
11-07-2017, 03:47 PM
So why doesn't every bench warmer in the NBA do this?

I'm sorry, but $5,000,000 this year to practice and preserve your body is not a bad deal. Free agency is a summer away. Everyone talks saying he is being done wrong, but no one wants to give anything for him? Can't have it both ways

You're arguing with me over something that verifiably happened. Your opinion that it's stupid does not trump a fact.

MTone8788
11-07-2017, 03:55 PM
You're arguing with me over something that verifiably happened. Your opinion that it's stupid does not trump a fact.

I never said it was right or wrong. I frankly said I do not care. I just find it odd that fans of other teams in other situations in other areas are so strongly passionate about something that doesn't directly affect the team they are a fan of. On the other hand, I am a fan of the Sixers, and watch every game, and I do not care.

TheDish87
11-07-2017, 04:58 PM
even as an Okafor supporter i cant say we are treating him wrong but we arent treating him good, if that makes sense. this all stemmed from his camp believing there were good enough offers going back to last year and they are probably right. he has done everything right and remained professional and continues to work hard behind the scenes and seeing how its been clear he has no future here he should have been traded. This has no impact on the future of this team so just cut ties with him and be done with it. We had no problem dumping Noel for peanuts so dont see the difference here.

IndyRealist
11-07-2017, 05:30 PM
I never said it was right or wrong. I frankly said I do not care. I just find it odd that fans of other teams in other situations in other areas are so strongly passionate about something that doesn't directly affect the team they are a fan of. On the other hand, I am a fan of the Sixers, and watch every game, and I do not care.

That does not describe me. I couldn't care less. I simply cited case precedent to answer your question. If i was pressed for an opinion, it's that they should just waive him if they don't want him. Let him try to rehab his career elsewhere.

Vinny642
11-08-2017, 01:09 AM
Before we traded for Cousin's I really did want him, and we were close to acquiring him.
Im happy that we got DMC instead, but I do hope Okafor goes to a team that actually wants him

warfelg
11-08-2017, 09:00 AM
If he want's out and people say we're treating him poorly, last night was not a stellar moment for him.

In 3 minutes he picked up 3 fouls, 1 TO, 1 AST, 0-2 shooting and was blocked by a 6'3" rookie.

I know that's a super limited sample, but you think a guy that wants out would want to eat up every opportunity out there. Alaa Abdunally had a great comment last night when Okafor was in. They were talking about the situation and Alaa said "This is a game of sports cars in the left lane and Okafor is a beater in the right lane". Cracked me up.

TheDish87
11-08-2017, 09:50 AM
he didnt wanna be out there last night, showed no interest right away it was clear as day. Shame bcuz this is the first time i have felt something like this about his play. Everyone has been blocked by a guard in their careers so no one cares about that but its time we stays on the bench until a trade is worked out.

Scoots
11-08-2017, 10:41 AM
he didnt wanna be out there last night, showed no interest right away it was clear as day. Shame bcuz this is the first time i have felt something like this about his play. Everyone has been blocked by a guard in their careers so no one cares about that but its time we stays on the bench until a trade is worked out.

At this point I wonder if he's worth nothing ... maybe it would be a net positive for the Sixers to just cut him.

warfelg
11-08-2017, 10:56 AM
Reason I brought it up is if he wants out he should try to show more in limited run. Make it so taking you out of the game was hard. Make it so teams want you.

Iím sorry but if I saw that as an opposing GM and I thought there was the slightest bit that he did that because he doesnít want to be there...thatís an issue.

C-Dub
11-08-2017, 11:01 AM
Mil has Hibberts 5 mill trade exception they could use on him but my guess is they want something back for him. we need a young rebounder bad

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-08-2017, 11:03 AM
Bucks save almost $3M in the Bledsoe trade as well. So Vaughn for Okafor would work as well or the TPE. But i'm sure 76ers want more then this. Also reports 76ers don't want dead weight deals coming back cause they need to extend Covington this summer. Also want wiggle room for free agents. Bucks should trade for Mavs Noel. Noel would have to agree to the trade since he took QO which is pretty much a no trade clause. Noel be a rental though since we couldn't afford to extend him this summer. Who else is on the market that can rebound like a wilder beast?

warfelg
11-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Mil has Hibberts 5 mill trade exception they could use on him but my guess is they want something back for him. we need a young rebounder bad

He ainít helping your rebounding.

TheDish87
11-08-2017, 11:52 AM
At this point I wonder if he's worth nothing ... maybe it would be a net positive for the Sixers to just cut him.

a protected 2nd or 2 is fine, basically we should be getting back what we got for Noel minus an actual player coming back. We have no need for him and nothing is gonna change when he is gone so i dont get the hold up at all. i think hes gonna land on the Bulls, Hawks, or Bucks sooner rather than later

TheDish87
11-08-2017, 11:54 AM
Reason I brought it up is if he wants out he should try to show more in limited run. Make it so taking you out of the game was hard. Make it so teams want you.

Iím sorry but if I saw that as an opposing GM and I thought there was the slightest bit that he did that because he doesnít want to be there...thatís an issue.

generally i agree with you but its gotta be tough to come in and play after being so ice cold and not even knowing if youre gonna play at all. no excuse for his play last night but his value isnt changing regardless

Scoots
11-08-2017, 03:29 PM
Reason I brought it up is if he wants out he should try to show more in limited run. Make it so taking you out of the game was hard. Make it so teams want you.

Iím sorry but if I saw that as an opposing GM and I thought there was the slightest bit that he did that because he doesnít want to be there...thatís an issue.

Much like Noel's issue in Dallas.

warfelg
11-08-2017, 04:11 PM
Much like Noel's issue in Dallas.

Except Noel is getting regular burn and doing ok. Heís just on a **** team.

FOXHOUND
11-08-2017, 04:24 PM
It's hard to imagine anyone trading for him when the team that acquires him will only be able to offer him $6.4M max in free agency. Why would anyone trade an asset for the flier where if he does well there's basically no chance for you to keep him?

Waive him and be done with it.

Scoots
11-08-2017, 06:44 PM
Except Noel is getting regular burn and doing ok. Heís just on a **** team.

But he's not really, in a third of the games he's had less than 15 minutes and is averaging only 17 minutes on a team that NEEDS size and defense. And at 23 years old you'd think he could at LEAST match Dirk's PT at 24 minutes.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-09-2017, 09:47 AM
Noel had 5 minutes other night versus Wizards.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 09:59 AM
But he's not really, in a third of the games he's had less than 15 minutes and is averaging only 17 minutes on a team that NEEDS size and defense. And at 23 years old you'd think he could at LEAST match Dirk's PT at 24 minutes.

That Mavs team is doing a ton of questionable things right now TBH.

I mean....Noel this year on a per100 is close to what he's done in his career.

His Per100 this year: 15.9 points; 16.1 reb; 1.2 ast; 2.4 stl; 2.4 blk
His Per100 for career: 18.0 points; 13.6 reb; 2.7 ast; 2.9 stl; 2.7 blk

I think Noel is still playing as the same type of guy....I think the issue is just they aren't playing him out of some strange feeling to play Dirk. This really feels like Kobe's last few years in LA. They should just move Dirk, play Noel and Barnes a full complement of minutes at the 4/5 and see what they have.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 10:39 AM
That Mavs team is doing a ton of questionable things right now TBH.

I mean....Noel this year on a per100 is close to what he's done in his career.

His Per100 this year: 15.9 points; 16.1 reb; 1.2 ast; 2.4 stl; 2.4 blk
His Per100 for career: 18.0 points; 13.6 reb; 2.7 ast; 2.9 stl; 2.7 blk

I think Noel is still playing as the same type of guy....I think the issue is just they aren't playing him out of some strange feeling to play Dirk. This really feels like Kobe's last few years in LA. They should just move Dirk, play Noel and Barnes a full complement of minutes at the 4/5 and see what they have.

But they could be playing Noel a lot more without reducing Dirk's minutes at all, and if they liked Noel they could have locked him up long term last year but they didn't. I don't think the Mavs and Carlisle like Noel at all.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 10:48 AM
But they could be playing Noel a lot more without reducing Dirk's minutes at all, and if they liked Noel they could have locked him up long term last year but they didn't. I don't think the Mavs and Carlisle like Noel at all.

Itís really a baffling situation tbh.

I kinda find it funny on here that we have a thread about Okafor and Philly; nothing about Deng and Lakers; nothing about this situation; nothing about the Magic and Herzonija.

Thereís quite a few teams in the NBA who are mysteriously limiting a player IMO.

Meanwhile Doc Rovers gets to play his son (who stinks) 30 mpg.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 01:29 PM
Itís really a baffling situation tbh.

I kinda find it funny on here that we have a thread about Okafor and Philly; nothing about Deng and Lakers; nothing about this situation; nothing about the Magic and Herzonija.

Thereís quite a few teams in the NBA who are mysteriously limiting a player IMO.

Meanwhile Doc Rovers gets to play his son (who stinks) 30 mpg.

True. These teams are keeping players they fairly clearly don't like, and it seems they are hoping teams will forget that and overpay for them.

I don't know that Okafor or Deng have any real value for any team, Noel and Hezonja are still interesting to me.

IndyRealist
11-09-2017, 02:17 PM
The only conclusion I can come to is that Noel and the Mavs are FAR apart on money, and they're trying to limit his free agency value. Cuban's playing dirty, I doubt this is a Carlisle decision.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 02:27 PM
The only conclusion I can come to is that Noel and the Mavs are FAR apart on money, and they're trying to limit his free agency value. Cuban's playing dirty, I doubt this is a Carlisle decision.

Wouldnít shock me if an owner had a ďyou screwed me so Iíll screw youĒ take.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 02:43 PM
The only conclusion I can come to is that Noel and the Mavs are FAR apart on money, and they're trying to limit his free agency value. Cuban's playing dirty, I doubt this is a Carlisle decision.

But there is just no way that works. If you try to screw the player over you just guarantee that they will go somewhere else.

IndyRealist
11-09-2017, 04:56 PM
But there is just no way that works. If you try to screw the player over you just guarantee that they will go somewhere else.

Depends. If they tank his value and he gets offers for $50M and the Mavs are offering $80M, who walks away from 60% more money?

warfelg
11-09-2017, 05:03 PM
Depends. If they tank his value and he gets offers for $50M and the Mavs are offering $80M, who walks away from 60% more money?

At that point why not take a cheaper 1+1 with a contender that needs and will play you and build the value back up?

IndyRealist
11-09-2017, 06:12 PM
At that point why not take a cheaper 1+1 with a contender that needs and will play you and build the value back up?

And play for $2M into the playoffs and potentially have a career ending injury? Noel hasn't gotten paid yet, in NBA terms. If his career ends tomorrow he's made very little. That's why you rarely see players take the qualifying offer, and even fewer leave their drafting team after their rookie contract.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 06:18 PM
And play for $2M into the playoffs and potentially have a career ending injury? Noel hasn't gotten paid yet, in NBA terms. If his career ends tomorrow he's made very little. That's why you rarely see players take the qualifying offer, and even fewer leave their drafting team after their rookie contract.

Sorry but career ending injury is a weak argument to me. Could happen to Lonzo Ball tomorrow.

IndyRealist
11-09-2017, 06:23 PM
Sorry but career ending injury is a weak argument to me. Could happen to Lonzo Ball tomorrow.

That's the reality. They want to secure their first big contract before they start taking less for other reasons. Again, that's why you see so few players on qualifying offers or leaving their drafting team. It's not your money you're telling them to walk away from.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 06:30 PM
I mean I understand but career ending injury is such a weak reason. It can happen to anyone anytime.

If I were in a position where a team just ****ed with my career by barely playing me, then offers me 4-$80mil? I tell them to go **** themselves.

If I had my choice between a 4 year $50mil, and a 1+1 worth $11 mil a year, give me that 1+1 on a team that really wants me. Go out there and turn that 1 year from $11mil to $18-20mil.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 06:51 PM
At that point why not take a cheaper 1+1 with a contender that needs and will play you and build the value back up?

What I was going to say. A 23 year old can be convinced by an agent to play the long game these days.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-09-2017, 07:03 PM
Itís really a baffling situation tbh.

I kinda find it funny on here that we have a thread about Okafor and Philly; nothing about Deng and Lakers; nothing about this situation; nothing about the Magic and Herzonija.

Thereís quite a few teams in the NBA who are mysteriously limiting a player IMO.

Meanwhile Doc Rovers gets to play his son (who stinks) 30 mpg.

Deng will be hard to move. Laker fans don't even wanna hear what it takes to have a team take on Deng. Heck I could see the Suns maybe do Moose for Randle and Clarkson and a second round pick or something like that. But if its Deng then Kuzma or Ingram probably has to be in it or some pick with very little protection other wise. Kuzma should be the main untouchable for the Lakers.

flea
11-09-2017, 09:51 PM
I don't watch the Mavs but I'm comfortable saying Noel is limited only because he's not good enough. Even if Cuban wanted to play games with contracts I don't think Carlisle would ever do that - I think he'd quit before that. That's like saying Pop would tank to me, just wouldn't happen.

I will say that Carlisle is an uncompromising coach in that he'd rather play lesser talent that is mentally there than someone who might be more talented but will cost you fouls/turnovers/missed plays. That's why he still plays JJ Barea when that dude probably doesn't get minutes for any other team in the league - he fits exactly what Carlisle likes. Noel does too theoretically, but he's young and has no discernible NBA skill yet.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 10:11 PM
I don't watch the Mavs but I'm comfortable saying Noel is limited only because he's not good enough. Even if Cuban wanted to play games with contracts I don't think Carlisle would ever do that - I think he'd quit before that. That's like saying Pop would tank to me, just wouldn't happen.

He's plenty good enough.


I will say that Carlisle is an uncompromising coach in that he'd rather play lesser talent that is mentally there than someone who might be more talented but will cost you fouls/turnovers/missed plays. That's why he still plays JJ Barea when that dude probably doesn't get minutes for any other team in the league - he fits exactly what Carlisle likes. Noel does too theoretically, but he's young and has no discernible NBA skill yet.

Other than being a great defensive center, one of the few that blocks like a center, gets steals like a guard, plaing and finishing in the pick and roll.

Yea other than that no skills right?

I'm sorry but I love when someone says they don't watch a team but they know enough about a guy to say what he is.

Dallas's be issue is the mismatch of parts. Once Seth Curry comes back they'll have 3 guys in the starting lineup that can play a good ball movement game and 2 guys that play Iso Ball. They're intent at playing him for 25-30 minutes per game with 90% of those minutes at the Center position (according to PBBR).

Playing Dirk 90% of his average minutes at Center means there's only 25 minutes left in the center rotation. Yet Noel is at 17 MPG, Powell at 16 MPG.

In fact, outside of Dirk (who I really think isn't playing 90% of his minutes at the 5) Noel is their best statistical center (not counting Salah Majeri and his limited PT).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2018.html

MTone8788
11-09-2017, 10:13 PM
Noel isnít a great one on one defender, especially against bigger guys. He is good at getting weak side blocks and playing the passing lanes. He gets thrown around by bigger centers, remember what Whiteside used to do to him?

flea
11-09-2017, 10:14 PM
Other than being a great defensive center, one of the few that blocks like a center, gets steals like a guard, plaing and finishing in the pick and roll.

Yea other than that no skills right?

I'm sorry but I love when someone says they don't watch a team but they know enough about a guy to say what he is.


I watched a lot of his college ball and playing for the worst team in NBA history doesn't impress me - nor do I hold that against him either though. No, I am just deferring to Carlisle who likely knows how skilled his roster is better than any poster here.

He's not a bad rebounder, defender eh he's got defensive talent but even in college he wasn't as good as WCS and nobody goes around acting like WCS is some stud defender, and he has zero offensive game. Defensive potential? Sure, more before he shredded his knee but it's still there. I think WCS is better than him though, at least right now.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 10:23 PM
So basically you haven't watched him much since then.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 10:24 PM
Noel isnít a great one on one defender, especially against bigger guys. He is good at getting weak side blocks and playing the passing lanes. He gets thrown around by bigger centers, remember what Whiteside used to do to him?

What Noel does ins't weak side blocks. He's not coming across the lane. He's rim protecting.

His man defense has improved FWIW. He's learning how to better use leverage which he hasn't done before.

flea
11-09-2017, 10:30 PM
So basically you haven't watched him much since then.

Yes I have, but not more than a few games. I watched some last year to see Embiid. I get that you've always thought he was some stud big man but IDK who you're trying to convince. Sure you saw a lot of him, maybe you're right and he'll be a valuable NBA regular though he's doubtful to make any All NBA teams.

I don't deny that he could be as good as Deandre Jordan one day, I'm just saying he's clearly not that now. And even DJ is no "great defensive center" as you've annointed Noel.

warfelg
11-09-2017, 10:34 PM
On the actual topic:
Brett Brown talked pregame how Okafor's fitness level is an issue again early in the season, saying he can be a beast after Thanksgiving one he gets his fitness level up.

That's not something you want to hear about a 3rd year player.

eDush
11-11-2017, 02:04 AM
At this point they could only really trade him to a bottom feeder team for a 2nd round pick. There are not many teams who use a style for a low post scorer who doesn't contribute on the other end.If that's really true, i would want our Dubs to give them that 2nd pick for him. Okafor would be our pet project to succeed and I think he can like a Bogut, fragile but useful and effective in matchup situations :nod:

GREATNESS ONE
11-11-2017, 01:35 PM
Boston, SAS, GSW are the perfect fit for Okafornto give him the maximum possibility of succeeding in his still young career.

kyubi256
11-13-2017, 09:53 PM
Sad because he's seen as a bust now due to them making a bad pick.

TheDish87
11-16-2017, 04:52 PM
On the actual topic:
Brett Brown talked pregame how Okafor's fitness level is an issue again early in the season, saying he can be a beast after Thanksgiving one he gets his fitness level up.

That's not something you want to hear about a 3rd year player.

where did you get this? what i saw was him saying he didnt expect Embiid to explode like this til after he got in top shape which he expected to be around thanksgiving.

warfelg
11-16-2017, 06:01 PM
where did you get this? what i saw was him saying he didnt expect Embiid to explode like this til after he got in top shape which he expected to be around thanksgiving.

It was Bodners twitter on that day.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-05-2017, 03:12 PM
Bucks are now linked to Okafor if they miss out on trading for Jordan. Not sure what 76ers want in return for Okafor since he'll be a UFA next summer. Since 76ers didn't pick up his option. Also on twitter mentions 76ers asking price of two second round picks is now lowered to one. So a future second rounder for Okafor from Bucks? Vaughn? Wilson?

Bucks are tied up with Suns for trading a first round pick. Earliest Bucks could trade a first is 2022 since most likely our first to Suns conveys 2020. But doubt any team offers a first for Okafor since no Bird rights to match offer sheets. So his stock is low and not playing with 76ers. Okafor be a poor man's Moose.

TheDish87
12-05-2017, 03:58 PM
I said since the Monroe trade Oak would prob land on the Bucks. He is healthy and in shape and should be able to turn his career around as a bench big in the mold of Monroe/Kanter. I think he is going to be really motivated when he gets his chance. The kid has game, hope to see him put it all together bcuz hes not nearly as bad as some like to make him out to be (not saying hes good, either)

warfelg
12-05-2017, 06:03 PM
Bag of chips and a cheese steak for every Sixer fan.

Firefistus
12-06-2017, 02:53 PM
Bucks are now linked to Okafor if they miss out on trading for Jordan. Not sure what 76ers want in return for Okafor since he'll be a UFA next summer. Since 76ers didn't pick up his option. Also on twitter mentions 76ers asking price of two second round picks is now lowered to one. So a future second rounder for Okafor from Bucks? Vaughn? Wilson?

Bucks are tied up with Suns for trading a first round pick. Earliest Bucks could trade a first is 2022 since most likely our first to Suns conveys 2020. But doubt any team offers a first for Okafor since no Bird rights to match offer sheets. So his stock is low and not playing with 76ers. Okafor be a poor man's Moose.

I don't believe that, who wouldn't trade Okafor for a 2nd round pick? That seems like a steal to me, second round picks are always pick and hope they turn into something.

Bostonjorge
12-06-2017, 02:55 PM
Trade to Boston for Rozier and Bostonís draft pick. Rozier is a upgrade over Fultz for Philly.

Free Okafor

TheDish87
12-06-2017, 03:02 PM
the only reason Rozier is an 'upgrade' is bcuz Fultz is out still. short of that Fultz projects to be a whole lot better. I say this as a big Rozier fan dating back to his college days.

hugepatsfan
12-06-2017, 03:24 PM
lmaooooo at Rozier over Fultz. Don't even engage people just hating lol

Rozier is alright as a bench guy. Extremely low FG% not dreadful from 3 (37% this year is probably an outlier but last year's 32% is enough to not hurt too bad). Great rebounder and defender. Good energy guy. As an 8th/9th man I think he helps you win. But he ain't nothing special.

TheDish87
12-06-2017, 04:57 PM
hah yea i love Rozier in his current role, its perfect for him. Fultz is gonna be on a whole different level. However, Rozier for Oak would be fair but we dont have the need for Rozier and no need for you guys to make a change like that.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 05:03 PM
I don't like Fultz. His college career was fine but he was just putting great numbers on a bad team. His FT shooting is so bad and hilarious that I can't believe it had gone that unnoticed.

hugepatsfan
12-06-2017, 05:06 PM
Tatum has definitely upward adjusted my expectations for him with not only playing well but specific things in his game looking good. But Fultz getting hurt doesn't lower mine for him. PHI should still feel good about that deal IMO.

TheDish87
12-06-2017, 05:21 PM
I don't like Fultz. His college career was fine but he was just putting great numbers on a bad team. His FT shooting is so bad and hilarious that I can't believe it had gone that unnoticed.

hah of course you dont like him. you dont like any sixer til they prove you wrong.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 06:04 PM
hah of course you dont like him. you dont like any sixer til they prove you wrong.

You're a clown. I've been saying I don't like Fultz before the draft began. And you haven't even proved me wrong. My only issue with Embiid/Simmons have been health-related. You're such a homer, dude.

Tg11
12-07-2017, 12:40 PM
Okafor I could see him on the Atlanta Hawks believe it or not or even on the Bulls dare I say it

TrueFan420
12-07-2017, 12:54 PM
I don't believe that, who wouldn't trade Okafor for a 2nd round pick? That seems like a steal to me, second round picks are always pick and hope they turn into something.

With the pick you get a young player with potential locked into a cheap deal for 2 years and bird rights. With Oakfor you get a very talented but limited player and get him for half a season before he either leaves or you have to pay him more.

Tg11
12-07-2017, 12:58 PM
Okafor needs to go to a team that he can thrive but honestly if I were the Raptors at this point I would make that push to go after Okafor...get rid of JV I would rather have Jahlil than JV any day

warfelg
12-07-2017, 01:02 PM
Okafor needs to go to a team that he can thrive but honestly if I were the Raptors at this point I would make that push to go after Okafor...get rid of JV I would rather have Jahlil than JV any day

I would happily take JV.

Tg11
12-07-2017, 01:03 PM
JV crumbles under pressure and not to mention he is timid when he is in the paint especially when defenders coming rushing up towards him he panics just look at his numbers and compare his regular season numbers to his playoff numbers

warfelg
12-07-2017, 01:14 PM
JV crumbles under pressure and not to mention he is timid when he is in the paint especially when defenders coming rushing up towards him he panics just look at his numbers and compare his regular season numbers to his playoff numbers

At least he rebounds and tries on defense. Behind Embiid for us he would be a huge upgrade.