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Scoots
10-26-2017, 08:07 PM
Any thoughts on the officiating this year?

Generally they seem a little better now than they were late in the season last year.

They are calling the same ticky-tack contact but they are calling it more consistently at least.

The change to the rule where an offensive player creates contact outside not getting it called a shooting foul seems to have been forgotten by the refs.

warfelg
10-26-2017, 08:22 PM
It's ****.

warfelg
10-26-2017, 08:23 PM
Officiating is ***. To take an Embiid-ism.

NFLAccess
10-26-2017, 08:39 PM
Always room for improvement

WaDe03
10-26-2017, 08:59 PM
Better than last year for sure.

ewing
10-27-2017, 05:13 AM
Any thoughts on the officiating this year?

Generally they seem a little better now than they were late in the season last year.

They are calling the same ticky-tack contact but they are calling it more consistently at least.

The change to the rule where an offensive player creates contact outside not getting it called a shooting foul seems to have been forgotten by the refs.

I have seen a lot of offensive players create contact on the drive and get the call. The league had gotten away from that a little but its seems a little out of hand again. Fast strong drivers like Wall can drive out of control at 100 mph and be rewarded with free throws.

Firefistus
10-27-2017, 11:31 AM
The Jazz Announcers talked about the points of emphasis that the ref's have this year, and the 2 biggest ones to me were traveling, and forcing contact out on the three if it's not in their natural shooting position. Both of which I think is a good thing to clean up.

Travelling happens ALL the time, and it's good they are focusing on it, and I've seen it called ALOT already, it's actually what has caused most of Ricky Rubio's turnovers this year so far.

The natural shot thing was also getting on my nerve, I'm glad they're putting a stop to this. You could have someone at the three taking a shot, and the defense comes up, jumps in the air and try to stop the shot from the side. Suddenly the shooter jumps sideways and causes a foul. It wasn't his natural shooting form at all, but he gets three free throws because he jumped sideways.

It takes a bit, but everyone needs to get used to the new calls, teams will adjust and it will be fine.

warfelg
10-27-2017, 12:32 PM
I hate the call of catching a pass, pumpfaking, and taking the first step at the same time as putting the balldown is now a travel.

Rivera
10-27-2017, 12:57 PM
I hate the call of catching a pass, pumpfaking, and taking the first step at the same time as putting the balldown is now a travel.

its always been a travel but never got called, depending on which hood you play in and how intense the game is that ish gets called so many times its annoying AF. But yea, they may be emphasizing it more but its been a part of the game for years, basically getting a small head start on the defender before you put the ball down. One step can make a huge difference in bball

warfelg
10-27-2017, 01:14 PM
its always been a travel but never got called, depending on which hood you play in and how intense the game is that ish gets called so many times its annoying AF. But yea, they may be emphasizing it more but its been a part of the game for years, basically getting a small head start on the defender before you put the ball down. One step can make a huge difference in bball

Ever hear about a pivot foot?

You can keep one foot on the ground, start to step with the other, and start your dribble and you aren't travelling, especially if the pivot foot stays.

And no I've never seen anyone "called" for that in a game that's of the pickup variety.

Scoots
10-27-2017, 03:10 PM
The Jazz Announcers talked about the points of emphasis that the ref's have this year, and the 2 biggest ones to me were traveling, and forcing contact out on the three if it's not in their natural shooting position. Both of which I think is a good thing to clean up.

Travelling happens ALL the time, and it's good they are focusing on it, and I've seen it called ALOT already, it's actually what has caused most of Ricky Rubio's turnovers this year so far.

The natural shot thing was also getting on my nerve, I'm glad they're putting a stop to this. You could have someone at the three taking a shot, and the defense comes up, jumps in the air and try to stop the shot from the side. Suddenly the shooter jumps sideways and causes a foul. It wasn't his natural shooting form at all, but he gets three free throws because he jumped sideways.

It takes a bit, but everyone needs to get used to the new calls, teams will adjust and it will be fine.

I agree on liking traveling being called again. I hope they keep it up.

The "natural shot" fouls are still being called wrong.

I've noticed that sometimes when a defender closes out on a shooter and touches the shooter as they extend to get contact after the shot is gone it's called a foul and sometimes it isn't.

Scoots
10-27-2017, 03:12 PM
I hate the call of catching a pass, pumpfaking, and taking the first step at the same time as putting the balldown is now a travel.

I haven't seen that called. I have seen the little hop on the catch called a travel, and I've seen a player catch with a left foot pivot, then step with the right then put the ball down and get it called ... and I don't know if they are thinking the ball has to leave their hand before the left foot comes up?

Vee-Rex
10-27-2017, 03:17 PM
I hate when they call a travel on LeBron's crab dribble. That has been established as a legitimate move a long time ago. Like... wtf?

HandsOnTheWheel
10-27-2017, 03:48 PM
Not sure why this deserves it's own sticky thread, but I'll deal.

The league definitely made officiating changes a top offseason priority. Despite cleaning up the disastrous self initiating contact for 3 FT's, "superstars" are still getting their **** calls which is annoying.

warfelg
10-27-2017, 03:48 PM
I haven't seen that called. I have seen the little hop on the catch called a travel, and I've seen a player catch with a left foot pivot, then step with the right then put the ball down and get it called ... and I don't know if they are thinking the ball has to leave their hand before the left foot comes up?

Thatís similar to what Iím talking about. They are taking to heart the ďball must leave the hand before movingĒ to heart.

thegerman
10-27-2017, 03:58 PM
it has been better than last year, but it is still early...

Scoots
10-27-2017, 05:11 PM
I hate when they call a travel on LeBron's crab dribble. That has been established as a legitimate move a long time ago. Like... wtf?

I think the stopped calling it but I don't know that they changed the rule.

Scoots
10-27-2017, 05:13 PM
So, traveling used to be called on anything more than a step and a half with the ball in the hand, and now they give the gather AND a step and a half so it's effectively 2 and a half steps. I don't know if that is the rule or just how it's being officiated.

Rivera
10-27-2017, 05:38 PM
Ever hear about a pivot foot?

You can keep one foot on the ground, start to step with the other, and start your dribble and you aren't travelling, especially if the pivot foot stays.

And no I've never seen anyone "called" for that in a game that's of the pickup variety.

yes and when a player peforms the move you are talking about 95% of them lift that pivot foot which causes a travel

obviously if you never seen this called you dont ball that often

Vee-Rex
10-27-2017, 05:46 PM
I think the stopped calling it but I don't know that they changed the rule.

They haven't changed anything, I was just joking.

Refs seem to be letting teams slug it out. They're pretty loose with the whistle. LeBron is averaging his lowest FTA of his career. He absorbs a lot of contact that would probably be ruled a foul if it were another player. At the same time, he has been pushing off on practically every drive to the rim this year so I guess it balances out a little bit.

The most frustrating for me so far are the illegal screens. I feel like it's worse. And I don't blame the players one bit - if they're gonna allow you to grab and hold people on off-ball screens then might as well keep doing it. The Bulls (Felicio on like EVERY possession) were doing it so much it was hard to watch.

Whatever happened to standing still with your wrists crossed in front of you? Isn't that the official rule? There's a little leeway if the screener rolls to the basket but that's it.

warfelg
10-27-2017, 06:40 PM
Refs seem to be letting teams slug it out.

Uhhhh....Sixers games by foul calls this year:

60+ = 1
50-60 = 2
40-49 = 2
40 and under = 0

That's really slugging it out huh?

FlashBolt
10-27-2017, 08:22 PM
My perspective on NBA reffing has always been that they have the toughest job outside of NFL refs in major American sports and considering that, they are pretty great overall. I mean, Joey Crawford was always known as a "bad ref" to most but actually was really consistent as a ref. People just need to let it go, IMO. All this talk about the reffing just starts to get old. More often than not, the calls even out. Unless you are advocating that the league is rigged and the refs are part of it, there really isn't much to discuss.

kobe4thewinbang
10-27-2017, 08:24 PM
The refs basically screwed the Nuggets the other night when Jokic barely bumped into the other team's coach. Nuggets had just tied up the game at home and then the other team won on free throws.

FlashBolt
10-27-2017, 08:27 PM
The refs basically screwed the Nuggets the other night when Jokic barely bumped into the other team's coach. Nuggets had just tied up the game at home and then the other team won on free throws.

Those calls happen every other year. It's going to happen when over 2000 games are played in a season. I just ignore the refs because as much as they can influence the game, it's usually the team and coaching that determines the winner. I mean, when refs take forever, people complain. With the amount of rules and how delicate the game can be sometimes, it's almost impossible to have a fullproof coaching record.

kobe4thewinbang
10-30-2017, 02:14 AM
Those calls happen every other year. It's going to happen when over 2000 games are played in a season. I just ignore the refs because as much as they can influence the game, it's usually the team and coaching that determines the winner. I mean, when refs take forever, people complain. With the amount of rules and how delicate the game can be sometimes, it's almost impossible to have a fullproof coaching record.Yeah, I watched the highlights like "wow, nice play" when Jokic tied it, and then was like "c'mon!" when the coach threw a fit. I get the rule being there, but like wow, way to take over the game, refs. Every smart coach says "we shouldn't have let that happen in the first place and played better, *points out x mistake*" but still pretty lame if you ask me.

hugepatsfan
10-30-2017, 01:11 PM
I think it's hilarious to suggest that mythically, magically the bad and missed calls always even out perfectly at the end. And then, as if it's not hard enough to beat the best athletes in the world already, people say "oh well you should just beat them by enough that bad/missed calls don't matter."

In REALITY, someone gets screwed by the refs every game pretty much except the one in a million where they really do **** up perfectly evenly on both sides. But you have to just accept it because there's no alternative and then hope that it doesn't swing the final outcome from one way to another.

More-Than-Most
10-30-2017, 10:04 PM
just watch a rockets game then tell me the officials are good. If you look at a rocket player esp harden wrong its a foul.

More-Than-Most
10-30-2017, 10:05 PM
Uhhhh....Sixers games by foul calls this year:

60+ = 1
50-60 = 2
40-49 = 2
40 and under = 0

That's really slugging it out huh?

34-17 or some **** tonight lol.

ewing
10-31-2017, 01:00 AM
Sixers fans have to the whiniest in the league. you are not the that good and you beat the rockets tonight, stop it

ewing
10-31-2017, 01:12 AM
whinest? maybe but look at the free throw advantage for the other team against us so far and you will then understand.

maybe you guys foul more

More-Than-Most
10-31-2017, 01:14 AM
Sixers fans have to the whiniest in the league. you are not the that good and you beat the rockets tonight, stop it

whinest? maybe but look at the free throw advantage for the other team against us so far and you will then understand.

mrblisterdundee
10-31-2017, 01:10 PM
I'd say the fines are more out of whack this year than the officiating.

FlashBolt
10-31-2017, 01:19 PM
Do you guys ever give credit to a ref for a good call? That's my point. You guys just focus on the few bad calls and generalize a referee by it but when there's a great call made, none of you say "Wow, good call by X."

DTownSportsFan
11-01-2017, 02:37 PM
Tobias Harris gets no respect. Pistons didn't even get a freethrow attempt until midway through the 3rd quarter last night. Ended the game with 3 FT attempts in total. Tobias was hacked 3 different times, 2 in which he scored. Not saying we win the game but people don't realize how bad officiating affects the game. Basketball is very momentum based and bad reffing kills a teams momentum.

Like I said though, Lakers probably still win that game. They were hitting open shots and Drummond still doesn't like to defend anyone. It's just annoying because we had two chances to start a come back and never really got a fair shake.

P.S. I knew Lonzo would expose Reggie Jackson. I'm about done with Jackson. Ish runs an offense, Reggie kills an offense.

Scoots
11-01-2017, 08:04 PM
They haven't changed anything, I was just joking.

Refs seem to be letting teams slug it out. They're pretty loose with the whistle. LeBron is averaging his lowest FTA of his career. He absorbs a lot of contact that would probably be ruled a foul if it were another player. At the same time, he has been pushing off on practically every drive to the rim this year so I guess it balances out a little bit.

The most frustrating for me so far are the illegal screens. I feel like it's worse. And I don't blame the players one bit - if they're gonna allow you to grab and hold people on off-ball screens then might as well keep doing it. The Bulls (Felicio on like EVERY possession) were doing it so much it was hard to watch.

Whatever happened to standing still with your wrists crossed in front of you? Isn't that the official rule? There's a little leeway if the screener rolls to the basket but that's it.

Hehe ... I wasn't sure. It was possible they made it legal.

I've seen a few games that were called very close, with almost no contact allowed. The variation in officiating is really frustrating to watch, it must be horrible to live it.

Scoots
11-01-2017, 08:10 PM
My perspective on NBA reffing has always been that they have the toughest job outside of NFL refs in major American sports and considering that, they are pretty great overall. I mean, Joey Crawford was always known as a "bad ref" to most but actually was really consistent as a ref. People just need to let it go, IMO. All this talk about the reffing just starts to get old. More often than not, the calls even out. Unless you are advocating that the league is rigged and the refs are part of it, there really isn't much to discuss.

I think it's reasonable to discuss the changes to the officiating this year and also to discuss ways they can make it better.

I think it's obvious that there should be 4 refs with them working base line to opposite side 3 point line each and staying on the side lines. Give them less distance to run and split the jobs down by 30% per person. With so much 3 point shooting now the top ref spends a lot of time looking to see if the shooters feet are behind the line and miss hooks and other fouls up top.

Really all I want is for the rules to be enforced consistently, and I don't think there are enough eyes on the floor to come close with the size and speed of the players and today's game.

I'm also for allowing refs to call anything they see in a replay in the last 2 minutes. I'd much rather they get it right rather than bypass an uncalled foul that caused a loss of possession when they are replaying who touched it last.

Scoots
11-01-2017, 08:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc2Pgr5qs7M

Scoots
11-01-2017, 08:18 PM
Do you guys ever give credit to a ref for a good call? That's my point. You guys just focus on the few bad calls and generalize a referee by it but when there's a great call made, none of you say "Wow, good call by X."

I don't know about others but I definitely do. The vast majority of the calls made are correct. Missed calls are more frustrating for me.

Scoots
11-01-2017, 09:29 PM
I'm seeing a lot of shooters coming down with defenders under them and I'm not seeing it called much at all.

warfelg
11-01-2017, 09:40 PM
I'm seeing a lot of shooters coming down with defenders under them and I'm not seeing it called much at all.

Point of emphasis to not call it if the shooter jumps into the defender.

Scoots
11-02-2017, 08:02 AM
Point of emphasis to not call it if the shooter jumps into the defender.

Yes, but I'm seeing it happen even when the shooter drifts backward. It looks like it was just a PR move since it's still happening regularly.

Firefistus
11-02-2017, 01:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc2Pgr5qs7M

That was a cool video, thanks for sharing that. It's very interesting to hear things from the side of the refs. I didn't realize how much the referee's didn't like the mouth-piece being thrown. I would have never suspected that quite frankly.

Scoots
11-02-2017, 02:35 PM
That was a cool video, thanks for sharing that. It's very interesting to hear things from the side of the refs. I didn't realize how much the referee's didn't like the mouth-piece being thrown. I would have never suspected that quite frankly.

There are a bunch of videos in that series. Nunn is good at describing what the refs are looking at during the game and it's kind of easy to see how there are some fouls that don't get called ... the fact is that no refs are looking at some things by plan and the better defensive guys know what they can get away with.

Scoots
11-02-2017, 02:40 PM
There has been a lot of talk about illegal screens being allowed. I've seen 3 legal screens get called in the last few days because the offensive player sold the contact.

TylerSL
11-07-2017, 05:43 PM
The refs who called that flagrant 2 on Melo should be suspended.

Vee-Rex
11-07-2017, 05:53 PM
The flagrant on Jeff Green against the Hawks was also BS.

Then they gave Atlanta 4 free throws + the ball. Like wtf kind of **** is that?

Scoots
11-07-2017, 06:04 PM
The refs who called that flagrant 2 on Melo should be suspended.

Curry got a flagrant also for an inadvertent contact to the face of a defender. I think they are just going to call all of that from now on.

I've seen several calls where a defender jumps and lands well short of the shooter in not in the same place and the shooter takes a step and leans in to create contact and the shooter is still being given free throws.

I thought the brief time we had with the officials respecting "verticality" was good.

I don't like the tendency the refs have to guess against the defender when the defenders arm is not straight up. If there is no contact there should be no foul.

warfelg
11-08-2017, 08:00 AM
928099549943615488

It was a bunch of blown calls but a lot of things like this by the Jazz went uncalled and the Sixers were called for quite a bit. Iíll find one where Gobert initiates the contact with his right arm pushing Saric back, Saric gets a clean block, gets called for the foul, then gets a technical when asking for clarification.

Sixers ended up with 1 foul out, 2 at 5 fouls, and a total of 34. Jazz had 23 and no one with more than 3.

Scoots
11-08-2017, 09:22 AM
928099549943615488

It was a bunch of blown calls but a lot of things like this by the Jazz went uncalled and the Sixers were called for quite a bit. Iíll find one where Gobert initiates the contact with his right arm pushing Saric back, Saric gets a clean block, gets called for the foul, then gets a technical when asking for clarification.

Sixers ended up with 1 foul out, 2 at 5 fouls, and a total of 34. Jazz had 23 and no one with more than 3.

Same night the Bucks got to the line 16 times to the Cavs 38 ... in a 5 point game. Nobody should expect the number of fouls called to match nor the number of FTs attempted. But the game has to be called the same both ways.

The Warriors/Heat game was officiated VERY loosely, they allowed a ton of contact. But at least they were fairly consistent between the two teams. It ended up 17 FTs for the Heat to 24 FTs for the Warriors and fouls were not a deciding factor in the game.

warfelg
11-08-2017, 09:37 AM
Same night the Bucks got to the line 16 times to the Cavs 38 ... in a 5 point game. Nobody should expect the number of fouls called to match nor the number of FTs attempted. But the game has to be called the same both ways.

The Warriors/Heat game was officiated VERY loosely, they allowed a ton of contact. But at least they were fairly consistent between the two teams. It ended up 17 FTs for the Heat to 24 FTs for the Warriors and fouls were not a deciding factor in the game.

Well the number of FTs here ended up the same. To me itís always consistency that bother me. Contact by the Sixers was a foul, same contact by the Jazz wasnít. Thatís bothersome. Amir set a pick on someone who clearly flopped and was called. Gobert railroads Ben and nothing.

Now to Bens credit he got up, got back in there, and didnít complain.

Scoots
11-08-2017, 10:16 AM
Well the number of FTs here ended up the same. To me itís always consistency that bother me. Contact by the Sixers was a foul, same contact by the Jazz wasnít. Thatís bothersome. Amir set a pick on someone who clearly flopped and was called. Gobert railroads Ben and nothing.

Now to Bens credit he got up, got back in there, and didnít complain.

That not complaining thing is important. Whiteside complained a lot and Spoelstra benched him. Last week Draymond's college coach Izzo told him to stop his whining which I love.

Vee-Rex
11-08-2017, 10:41 AM
Same night the Bucks got to the line 16 times to the Cavs 38 ... in a 5 point game. Nobody should expect the number of fouls called to match nor the number of FTs attempted. But the game has to be called the same both ways.

The Warriors/Heat game was officiated VERY loosely, they allowed a ton of contact. But at least they were fairly consistent between the two teams. It ended up 17 FTs for the Heat to 24 FTs for the Warriors and fouls were not a deciding factor in the game.

It's funny how stats don't tell the story.

1. Love annihilated the Bucks on the glass (8 o-rbs IIRC), and they were fouling trying to prevent 2nd chance points.

2. At the same time, Giannis was the only one driving to the rim for them.

3. Bucks played harder and more physical.
Sometimes I WISH the Cavs fouled more because it would mean they're playing harder. It doesn't surprise me that we don't foul opponents much because we're generally allowing easy lanes to the rim instead.

With all that said, I STILL feel like we got the benefit of the whistle. Lots of ticky tack fouls called on them. Must have been a frustrating evening for Bucks fans.

Scoots
11-08-2017, 10:51 AM
It's funny how stats don't tell the story.

1. Love annihilated the Bucks on the glass (8 o-rbs IIRC), and they were fouling trying to prevent 2nd chance points.

2. At the same time, Giannis was the only one driving to the rim for them.

3. Bucks played harder and more physical.
Sometimes I WISH the Cavs fouled more because it would mean they're playing harder. It doesn't surprise me that we don't foul opponents much because we're generally allowing easy lanes to the rim instead.

With all that said, I STILL feel like we got the benefit of the whistle. Lots of ticky tack fouls called on them. Must have been a frustrating evening for Bucks fans.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that the fouls told the full story. Any number of things would have changed the outcome of that game and the officials just calling reaches the same both ways probably make the difference.

Saddletramp
11-08-2017, 08:59 PM
928099549943615488

It was a bunch of blown calls but a lot of things like this by the Jazz went uncalled and the Sixers were called for quite a bit. Iíll find one where Gobert initiates the contact with his right arm pushing Saric back, Saric gets a clean block, gets called for the foul, then gets a technical when asking for clarification.

Sixers ended up with 1 foul out, 2 at 5 fouls, and a total of 34. Jazz had 23 and no one with more than 3.

Didn't you know that offensive lineman styled blocking is fine now? That's how you win championships, brotha!

warfelg
11-08-2017, 09:49 PM
Didn't you know that offensive lineman styled blocking is fine now? That's how you win championships, brotha!

New NBA stat: Pancake picks. :laugh:

Scoots
11-08-2017, 09:51 PM
Didn't you know that offensive lineman styled blocking is fine now? That's how you win championships, brotha!

Not last year or the year before ... you must be stuck back in 2015 :)

Scoots
11-08-2017, 09:51 PM
Another video breaking down the calls with Ronnie Nunn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7cBJtltlVI

Saddletramp
11-08-2017, 10:13 PM
Not last year or the year before ... you must be stuck back in 2015 :)

Nah, it was in '15-'16, too. They traded Bogut for KD and curiously they didn't seem to need those blocks as much anymore. Just surprised War was surprised.

warfelg
11-08-2017, 10:18 PM
Another video breaking down the calls with Ronnie Nunn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7cBJtltlVI

I love his videos breaking down anyone. They expose so many players for the ****** things they do.

The one with Harden is amazing.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 09:33 AM
Nah, it was in '15-'16, too. They traded Bogut for KD and curiously they didn't seem to need those blocks as much anymore. Just surprised War was surprised.

But you said "win championships" ... are you saying the Cavs used Bogut in 2016? :)

Saddletramp
11-09-2017, 02:48 PM
But you said "win championships" ... are you saying the Cavs used Bogut in 2016? :)

He gets hurt and they lose......hmmmmph.


I'm mostly just ****ing around but yeah, that Gobert video was weak compared to some of the stuff Bogut and Green were doing then. And the Jazz don't have the snipers that GS did.

FlashBolt
11-09-2017, 03:39 PM
As an OKC fan, no one has more right to complain than us. Westbrook and Melo got the two most bogus calls. That wasn't the reason we lost but I could not believe it was even a question about a flagrant.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 04:16 PM
He gets hurt and they lose......hmmmmph.


I'm mostly just ****ing around but yeah, that Gobert video was weak compared to some of the stuff Bogut and Green were doing then. And the Jazz don't have the snipers that GS did.

I'm ****ing around too. The problem isn't just Bogut/Green ... the rule is broken, but I guess either it's not a priority to fix or the NBA hasn't figured out how to fix it yet.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 04:17 PM
As an OKC fan, no one has more right to complain than us. Westbrook and Melo got the two most bogus calls. That wasn't the reason we lost but I could not believe it was even a question about a flagrant.

Just curious if you have some statistical support of that position?

FlashBolt
11-09-2017, 04:20 PM
Has the NBA fixed the stupid rule where it is technically legal to "illegally" screen a defender if you're not facing your own basket? I still see players doing it and it's such a dumb tactic. A screen should be called when it's illegal, period.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 05:19 PM
Has the NBA fixed the stupid rule where it is technically legal to "illegally" screen a defender if you're not facing your own basket? I still see players doing it and it's such a dumb tactic. A screen should be called when it's illegal, period.

Nope. That's a big part of the issue with the rule.

FlashBolt
11-09-2017, 07:10 PM
Just curious if you have some statistical support of that position?

Don't need statistics. The video of the two flagrant fouls were probably the worst calls I've seen this season. Melo ejected for what is a common foul and RWB called for a flagrant when it should be a foul on the other team.

Scoots
11-09-2017, 10:02 PM
Don't need statistics. The video of the two flagrant fouls were probably the worst calls I've seen this season. Melo ejected for what is a common foul and RWB called for a flagrant when it should be a foul on the other team.

I agree the Melo call should not have been a flagrant 2, but they are trying to call all head contact as a flagrant this year. Curry got a flagrant that never would have been before too.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-10-2017, 09:59 AM
Kidd got fined $15K bickering about refs last few games.

Scoots
11-10-2017, 10:13 AM
Kidd got fined $15K bickering about refs last few games.

I think the bickering is up because the refs are calling things they haven't called for years, but are still missing other calls. I've seen 4 coaches lose their minds over missed travel calls.

M.L.G.A.
11-11-2017, 12:16 AM
wow this spurs bucks (11.10.17) game soo many bad calls lol and i am a lakers fan with no money on the line...just trying to enjoy a good ball game but refs non calls super inconsistent

Giannis94
11-11-2017, 12:21 AM
wow this spurs bucks (11.10.17) game soo many bad calls lol and i am a lakers fan with no money on the line...just trying to enjoy a good ball game but refs non calls super inconsistent

The missed call on Henson when Manu initiated contact. The missed contact on Giannis earlier I checked quarter. And the missed hit in Middleton. Probably a few the spurs way. But dear God.

Scoots
11-11-2017, 01:18 AM
If you can find video clips to post it would help for those of us that didn't see the game.

Giannis94
11-11-2017, 03:00 PM
If you can find video clips to post it would help for those of us that didn't see the game.

Yeah I was awatching the game and don't know how/where to pull them

willsayanything
11-12-2017, 03:58 PM
The refs weren't ready for the season, and the league isn't keeping up with the players either. Carmelo was 'swiped' in the face, before he drove to the hoop, and knew he'd be met at the rim so went in to meet contact. His elbow did not touch the head or face...weak refs and league protecting their 'reputations,' and sacrificing the players.

M.L.G.A.
11-16-2017, 12:53 AM
wow the black refs HATING on lakers hard today vs sixers, missed calls on Ingram 3x at the rim, few times w/ Clarkson, some phantom call on Randle on D, Embiid pushes KCP after the and 1 with his shoulder, none call....so obvious...

warfelg
11-16-2017, 02:11 AM
I mean...Lakers committed 23 fouls, took 27 foul shot.

Sixers committed 19 fouls, 30 foul shot.

On a per foul basis you ended up with the better end of the stick.

M.L.G.A.
11-16-2017, 05:22 PM
I mean...Lakers committed 23 fouls, took 27 foul shot.

Sixers committed 19 fouls, 30 foul shot.

On a per foul basis you ended up with the better end of the stick.

those are the WORST rebuttles when it comes to assessments of refs (total fouls called/taken); it's about the inconsistency of the calls/no calls....Watch Ingram & Clarkson drive to the basket, lots of contact to naked eye, but no contact while on the flip side, Randle got called for 3 VERY sketchy calls that even the ESPN commentators raised their eye brows....

It was a horribly badly called game...Embiid also got hacked with seconds to go but no call...bc i'm guessing they were giving the Lakers a chance...

Watch the game instead of the box score..

Scoots
11-26-2017, 12:38 AM
The reputation calls and calls where refs are "trying to keep control of the game" really bug me. Just call each play as it is and call them the same every time.

tredigs
11-26-2017, 07:54 AM
Why is this a stickied thread Scoots?

warfelg
11-26-2017, 08:30 AM
The reputation calls and calls where refs are "trying to keep control of the game" really bug me. Just call each play as it is and call them the same every time.

Thatís the worse. Like the fist Sixers-Celtics meeting of the year. There was some chipiness in the preseason game so they literally were calling every time someone looked the wrong way at another player.

I do think there is a little bit to the reputation calls though. I notice itís bad in handing out technical fouls though. In a way I feel bad, in a way I donít. Like with Draymond, heís got 53 career techís. I would bet 5 maybe 6 are reaction reputation techs. Boogie has 114 career techs, I would bet only 10 are those ďgut reactionĒ type where they see whoís doing the talking and just hand it over.

Scoots
11-26-2017, 11:09 AM
Why is this a stickied thread Scoots?

So officiating talk can all be in one place so it can survive game threads. We had several significant changes to the rules and the officiating emphasis this year and it seems like something that can be an ongoing discussion.

Scoots
11-26-2017, 11:14 AM
Thatís the worse. Like the fist Sixers-Celtics meeting of the year. There was some chipiness in the preseason game so they literally were calling every time someone looked the wrong way at another player.

I do think there is a little bit to the reputation calls though. I notice itís bad in handing out technical fouls though. In a way I feel bad, in a way I donít. Like with Draymond, heís got 53 career techís. I would bet 5 maybe 6 are reaction reputation techs. Boogie has 114 career techs, I would bet only 10 are those ďgut reactionĒ type where they see whoís doing the talking and just hand it over.

At the same time both of those guys could probably have had 3000 more techs if they got one every time they said a swear to a ref.

One that really bugs me is when a player is making a move into the lane and a defender swipes down and gets all hand/ball and the baseline ref would couldn't possibly see the play calls a foul based on the offensive player complaining or the sound of the contact. When those fouls are game changing I'd like coaches to have a replay flag so the officials can replay it and remove the foul and the free throw points. It doesn't have to be live it could be at the next timeout if they want.

warfelg
11-26-2017, 11:46 AM
At the same time both of those guys could probably have had 3000 more techs if they got one every time they said a swear to a ref.

One that really bugs me is when a player is making a move into the lane and a defender swipes down and gets all hand/ball and the baseline ref would couldn't possibly see the play calls a foul based on the offensive player complaining or the sound of the contact. When those fouls are game changing I'd like coaches to have a replay flag so the officials can replay it and remove the foul and the free throw points. It doesn't have to be live it could be at the next timeout if they want.

Ugh. Thatís the one LBJ, Harden, and Westbrook (Wall to a smaller extent) get so much and it pisses me off.

You want the funny one:
That Donovan Mitchell tech for pushing Embiid, Embiid admitted he flopped post game to sell the shove. No fine for flopping from the NBA but there was a notice to ensure that they watch all play especially players trailing the play.

Scoots
11-26-2017, 11:56 AM
Ugh. Thatís the one LBJ, Harden, and Westbrook (Wall to a smaller extent) get so much and it pisses me off.

You want the funny one:
That Donovan Mitchell tech for pushing Embiid, Embiid admitted he flopped post game to sell the shove. No fine for flopping from the NBA but there was a notice to ensure that they watch all play especially players trailing the play.

I like the old guard who didn't sell the contact. Other than Draymond the Warriors didn't have anyone who sold contact but Kerr's been on them non-stop to sell all contact. I really would rather the refs just call the fouls as they are written in the rules rather than rely on the offensive player telling them when they are fouled ... whether they are or not.

Some calls I'm not sure what I want. When a guard is coming down the court, moves in front of a big, and stops and gets run over ... it's clearly a foul, but I kind of think the refs should just no-call it because it's cheap. At the same time, the post move where a defender pulls the chair and the offensive player travels ... I like that one, unless the ref doesn't call the travel.

Saddletramp
11-26-2017, 05:19 PM
Iguodala flops. And has for years.

warfelg
11-26-2017, 05:32 PM
I like the old guard who didn't sell the contact. Other than Draymond the Warriors didn't have anyone who sold contact but Kerr's been on them non-stop to sell all contact. I really would rather the refs just call the fouls as they are written in the rules rather than rely on the offensive player telling them when they are fouled ... whether they are or not.

Some calls I'm not sure what I want. When a guard is coming down the court, moves in front of a big, and stops and gets run over ... it's clearly a foul, but I kind of think the refs should just no-call it because it's cheap. At the same time, the post move where a defender pulls the chair and the offensive player travels ... I like that one, unless the ref doesn't call the travel.

Woof that sudden jump in front by a guard is the worse. I think there should be a "right of way allowance". I can't tell you how many times RoCo has driven, collected the ball, goes to jump, and suddenly he's called for a charge. Now granted he looks like inflatable wavy arm tube man when driving, but he get's called for so many charges where the other option was to teleport 4 feet left.

There needs to be a certain 'right of way allowance' that if the player with the ball has collected the ball and in the motion of going up that someone stepping in front of you shouldn't be able to draw a foul.

warfelg
11-26-2017, 05:32 PM
Iguodala flops. And has for years.

Done it since his Sixer days. Only annoying thing about him. Other than the stupid crown tattoo.

Scoots
11-26-2017, 07:21 PM
Iguodala flops. And has for years.

He hasn't much with the Warriors. Although that could be because he's afraid of taking foul shots, and also he's not asked to score on the Warriors.

Scoots
11-26-2017, 07:25 PM
Woof that sudden jump in front by a guard is the worse. I think there should be a "right of way allowance". I can't tell you how many times RoCo has driven, collected the ball, goes to jump, and suddenly he's called for a charge. Now granted he looks like inflatable wavy arm tube man when driving, but he get's called for so many charges where the other option was to teleport 4 feet left.

There needs to be a certain 'right of way allowance' that if the player with the ball has collected the ball and in the motion of going up that someone stepping in front of you shouldn't be able to draw a foul.

Yeah, the block/charge call is poorly called. If it's officiated the way traveling is where the shot begins with the beginning of the gather step, then 2 steps are allowed, that essentially means a defender will have to be standing vertical and not moving while an offensive player takes 2 and a half steps and THEN runs into them. There are very few offensive players in the NBA bad enough to fall for that.

Vee-Rex
11-27-2017, 02:07 PM
He hasn't much with the Warriors. Although that could be because he's afraid of taking foul shots, and also he's not asked to score on the Warriors.

His flopping usually takes place on defense.

tredigs
11-27-2017, 05:21 PM
So officiating talk can all be in one place so it can survive game threads. We had several significant changes to the rules and the officiating emphasis this year and it seems like something that can be an ongoing discussion.

Valid.

Scoots
11-28-2017, 12:22 AM
The bigs catching, changing their pivot then going into their move has been called a LOT more consistently this year. They still miss a lot of what I'd call travels, but at least it's better after years of getting more and more sloppy.

ChiTownPacerFan
11-30-2017, 12:11 AM
http://gph.is/2AqgvzT


This isn't specifically about Harden, even though he's part of the issue...

I just don't know what a defender is supposed to do in this situation. If an offensive player is allowed to veer himself sideways into a defender, flail his arms, and get rewarded with free throws, then isn't the system fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but for anyone that thinks this is okay, what is your rationale. Is there a way to defend this? Or are you okay with the offensive player just constantly getting the benefit of the doubt (even when he's clearly not making a basketball move and only trying to create contact).

Every sport has it's issues, but this one is so damn easy to fix. I feel like the game would be exponentially more enjoyable if they took this garbage out of it.

Bostonjorge
11-30-2017, 12:23 AM
These kind of calls donít get called in the playoffs only the regular season.

Harden is just the master at creating contact and looking like his head was just taken off. Remember when he made it look like Artest actually hit him in the head with a elbow?

Saddletramp
11-30-2017, 04:19 AM
http://gph.is/2AqgvzT


This isn't specifically about Harden, even though he's part of the issue...

I just don't know what a defender is supposed to do in this situation. If an offensive player is allowed to veer himself sideways into a defender, flail his arms, and get rewarded with free throws, then isn't the system fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but for anyone that thinks this is okay, what is your rationale. Is there a way to defend this? Or are you okay with the offensive player just constantly getting the benefit of the doubt (even when he's clearly not making a basketball move and only trying to create contact).

Every sport has it's issues, but this one is so damn easy to fix. I feel like the game would be exponentially more enjoyable if they took this garbage out of it.

Looks like he got bumped on the right arm so that's why he "veered sideways". That bump is a foul. But I get what you're saying and I see Harden and others do it a lot. I've always hated seeing offensive players dip a shoulder or flex an arm out to draw contact and then get a foul called for them. But hey, a lot of good/great offensive players do it and many teams and it's just a flaw in the officiating.

And by the way, Harden got fouled on at least 4 or so plays tonight and it wasn't called and he got called fouls a few times during continuation but they didn't give him the points and the foul shot. It's just whatever at this point. He gets away with some and he gets screwed on some. Whatevs.



These kind of calls donít get called in the playoffs only the regular season.

Harden is just the master at creating contact and looking like his head was just taken off. Remember when he made it look like Artest actually hit him in the head with a elbow?

He did hit him in the head with an elbow, you goofy little troll. Jesus H.

ewing
11-30-2017, 06:24 AM
Broken


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

warfelg
11-30-2017, 08:07 AM
I donít see a foul.....

Scoots
12-01-2017, 10:52 AM
The officials used to make that call depending on if the offensive player made the shot or not. If they make it, then no-call, if they miss then it's a foul. It's progressed to the point that the call comes even if it's not close to a shot on goal. That said, it's not the official that's at fault so much as the system that says that almost any contact to the arms of an offensive player is an automatic foul ... I think we've gone too far, and I think most people agree so I have to hope it will change back the other way a little bit soon.

I think, as it's written, the defender has a right to their space, even if they are moving (as long as the movement is away from the offensive player), and contact created by the offensive player is either a no-call or an offensive foul. If it was actually called that way Shaq would have fouled out of every game in his career, as would Harden.

Vee-Rex
12-02-2017, 07:13 AM
The officials used to make that call depending on if the offensive player made the shot or not. If they make it, then no-call, if they miss then it's a foul. It's progressed to the point that the call comes even if it's not close to a shot on goal. That said, it's not the official that's at fault so much as the system that says that almost any contact to the arms of an offensive player is an automatic foul ... I think we've gone too far, and I think most people agree so I have to hope it will change back the other way a little bit soon.

I think, as it's written, the defender has a right to their space, even if they are moving (as long as the movement is away from the offensive player), and contact created by the offensive player is either a no-call or an offensive foul. If it was actually called that way Shaq would have fouled out of every game in his career, as would Harden.

I would prefer if it was a no call.

I see it a lot in the post with Love and LeBron (especially Love). They'll back the defender down, and the defender will have his hands straight up and Love would jump into it, elbows bent to create contact.

At least LeBron tries to and generally makes the basket for the and-1. Love often doesn't, and Harden doesn't get nearly as much and-1s as he should.

Scoots
12-02-2017, 11:26 AM
I would prefer if it was a no call.

I see it a lot in the post with Love and LeBron (especially Love). They'll back the defender down, and the defender will have his hands straight up and Love would jump into it, elbows bent to create contact.

At least LeBron tries to and generally makes the basket for the and-1. Love often doesn't, and Harden doesn't get nearly as much and-1s as he should.

I agree, most of the time it should be a no-call. LeBron is trying to make the shot through contact ... Harden, Love, and others, are seeking contact and then making a fling for a basket. That said, Harden is remarkable at his ability to take a "terrible" shot after finding contact and still making it ... if he wasn't looking for the contact he'd shoot a higher percentage but he'd be less "efficient".

I don't think it should be a no-call when the offensive player hooks or locks a defender or when the offensive player puts their arms/hands in a defenders face or elbows the defender in the chest to create space. I'd be okay with that being a no-call if the shot is missed, but call the offensive foul if it's made.

ewing
12-03-2017, 11:13 AM
any defense of that call is completely off base.

Scoots
12-05-2017, 11:47 PM
The officials certainly seem to be short tempered lately.

Vee-Rex
12-06-2017, 12:49 PM
Mike Zavagno on Twitter:


LeBron James and Giannis Antetokounpmo are tied for the league lead with 25 AND 1s
Giannis: 102 Shooting Fouls Drawn
LeBron: 59 Shooting Fouls Drawn

LeBron should definitely be getting to the line more.

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 01:25 PM
Mike Zavagno on Twitter:



LeBron should definitely be getting to the line more.

His FtR is way too low for a player who always attacks the basket. I don't care what anyone says.. if someone is attacking the rim in more than 50% of their plays, he is getting fouled more than 30% of the time.

Scoots
12-06-2017, 01:43 PM
Mike Zavagno on Twitter:



LeBron should definitely be getting to the line more.

Outside shooting goes up, refs call drives less I guess

FlashBolt
12-06-2017, 08:34 PM
Outside shooting goes up, refs call drives less I guess

Terrible way to ref games, though. Those drives to the rim should be focused on more. I would understand if every play is a drive to the rim and you can't reward it every single time but if it's happening less, you gotta reward them if they get fouled. Teams have been fouling LeBron knowing they can get away with it. Just watching this SAC game, he's been sandwiched twice attacking the rim and refs let it run.

Scoots
12-06-2017, 10:40 PM
Terrible way to ref games, though. Those drives to the rim should be focused on more. I would understand if every play is a drive to the rim and you can't reward it every single time but if it's happening less, you gotta reward them if they get fouled. Teams have been fouling LeBron knowing they can get away with it. Just watching this SAC game, he's been sandwiched twice attacking the rim and refs let it run.

I'd like every foul to be called the the letter of the rules regardless. But for some reason the refs are letting players grab and hold and swipe on drives and screens more than I remember them doing it since the mid 90s. I've also seen them allowing more contact on follow through on outside shots without fouls being called.

warfelg
12-07-2017, 07:37 AM
I'd like every foul to be called the the letter of the rules regardless. But for some reason the refs are letting players grab and hold and swipe on drives and screens more than I remember them doing it since the mid 90s. I've also seen them allowing more contact on follow through on outside shots without fouls being called.

The outside shot thing goes with an emphasis this year being on calls come on a natural shooting motion.

Scoots
12-07-2017, 12:02 PM
The outside shot thing goes with an emphasis this year being on calls come on a natural shooting motion.

Maybe that's where it came from but I'm seeing fewer fouls on defenders hitting shooters arms even on regular shooting motion. I've also seen shooters being rewarded with flops at a similar rate as the past.

Scoots
12-07-2017, 12:35 PM
We've seen several players get flagrants called for hitting a player on the head/face to the point it was looking like it was an almost automatic flagrant. Warriors G Pat McCaw was knocked out of a game after being hit in the face by a DMC forearm and missed a game after entering the concussion protocol on a play where there was no foul called at all. All I want from the officials is consistency, and with McCaw the NBA required him to miss a game but don't think it was a foul but players hit in the head/face who don't even miss a second get flagrants?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hPOsD2gJts

ewing
12-09-2017, 07:34 PM
We've seen several players get flagrants called for hitting a player on the head/face to the point it was looking like it was an almost automatic flagrant. Warriors G Pat McCaw was knocked out of a game after being hit in the face by a DMC forearm and missed a game after entering the concussion protocol on a play where there was no foul called at all. All I want from the officials is consistency, and with McCaw the NBA required him to miss a game but don't think it was a foul but players hit in the head/face who don't even miss a second get flagrants?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hPOsD2gJts

So bc youíve seen bad calls the refs should have ****ed this one up to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scoots
12-11-2017, 04:57 PM
So bc youíve seen bad calls the refs should have ****ed this one up to?

It's about inconsistency. I care less what the rules are or how they are enforced as long as they are consistent.

Scoots
12-11-2017, 04:59 PM
The Shaq level of inside offense ... Just go through your man without actually making a move ... seems to be increasing as well this year.

Vee-Rex
12-11-2017, 05:08 PM
The Shaq level of inside offense ... Just go through your man without actually making a move ... seems to be increasing as well this year.

The offensive player is allowed far more contact than the defensive player.

It seems like when a guy is posting up he is allowed to steamroll the defender with no call. I dare say defenders must flop in order to draw fouls on offensive players.

Scoots
12-11-2017, 07:17 PM
The offensive player is allowed far more contact than the defensive player.

It seems like when a guy is posting up he is allowed to steamroll the defender with no call. I dare say defenders must flop in order to draw fouls on offensive players.

Yes. I've seen Andre Drummond do it a dozen times with no call. Catch, go through defender in good position, score.

The refs need to call more offensive fouls. Offensive players are also swinging elbows through the lane and not getting calls. When an offensive player hooks a defender they get called regularly, the elbow into the chest is the same thing but it's not called at all as long as the hand is on the ball.

ewing
12-12-2017, 12:00 AM
The offensive player is allowed far more contact than the defensive player.

It seems like when a guy is posting up he is allowed to steamroll the defender with no call. I dare say defenders must flop in order to draw fouls on offensive players.

you're just saying that b/c you watch LeBron every night

warfelg
12-16-2017, 09:12 AM
So Iíll try to find pics/video of last night but a few missed calls brought up by a friend of mine I was watching with (who is a NCAA D1 ref):

Jerami Grant hard foul on Embiid in the 3rd/4th should have been a flagrant 1 in his opinion. He said Grant made no attempt to play the ball and went at Joelís arms grabbing.

Joel should have been hit with a flagrant 1 at OT2 for his hit on Robertson.

In OT he said Melo got away with about 3 fouls on Saric 3ís.

The Adams/Embiid/RoCo was in the act and should have resulted in 3 FTs for RoCo. Said RoCo was starting his upward movement when Adams started to push.

His other big issue was the inconsistency of the calls. Techs flying early but later jawing at the refs went uncalled. Said the fouls that knocked Adams out was weak compared to other things he did in OT. Said a few of the guys in position to make the call didnít, while someone not in position did.

Scoots
12-16-2017, 02:42 PM
So Iíll try to find pics/video of last night but a few missed calls brought up by a friend of mine I was watching with (who is a NCAA D1 ref):

Jerami Grant hard foul on Embiid in the 3rd/4th should have been a flagrant 1 in his opinion. He said Grant made no attempt to play the ball and went at Joelís arms grabbing.

Joel should have been hit with a flagrant 1 at OT2 for his hit on Robertson.

In OT he said Melo got away with about 3 fouls on Saric 3ís.

The Adams/Embiid/RoCo was in the act and should have resulted in 3 FTs for RoCo. Said RoCo was starting his upward movement when Adams started to push.

His other big issue was the inconsistency of the calls. Techs flying early but later jawing at the refs went uncalled. Said the fouls that knocked Adams out was weak compared to other things he did in OT. Said a few of the guys in position to make the call didnít, while someone not in position did.

There is nothing in the rules about going for the ball. It's about excessive contact.

I commented in the game thread that from 2nd OT on the refs were nearly not calling anything.

It was the 2nd poorly officiated game in two days.

warfelg
12-16-2017, 02:53 PM
There is nothing in the rules about going for the ball. It's about excessive contact.

I commented in the game thread that from 2nd OT on the refs were nearly not calling anything.

It was the 2nd poorly officiated game in two days.

I mentioned that and he said itís all about the intent. Did you try to go for the ball is the first thing to ask, then was it excessive.

Scoots
12-16-2017, 05:52 PM
I mentioned that and he said itís all about the intent. Did you try to go for the ball is the first thing to ask, then was it excessive.

In the NBA there is nothing about intent on the ball.

ewing
12-17-2017, 11:00 AM
There is nothing in the rules about going for the ball. It's about excessive contact.

I commented in the game thread that from 2nd OT on the refs were nearly not calling anything.

It was the 2nd poorly officiated game in two days.

How can contact be excessive if you are going for the ball? You are trying not make contact with the person. Does it become excessive based on the amount muscle on a guy's forearm? Ron Baker and David West have different size forearms. Its a stupid rule and you can only hope the officials ignore it as much as possible. Kodus to the refs for not deciding the game with a BS call.

Scoots
12-17-2017, 01:53 PM
How can contact be excessive if you are going for the ball? You are trying not make contact with the person. Does it become excessive based on the amount muscle on a guy's forearm? Ron Baker and David West have different size forearms. Its a stupid rule and you can only hope the officials ignore it as much as possible. Kodus to the refs for not deciding the game with a BS call.

If you hit someone on the arm it's a foul. If you wind up and hammer them as hard as possible and follow through and throw them into the stands it's going to be a flagrant. In neither case was "an attempt made on the ball". It's a judgement call of the refs ... this year they appear to be officiating any head/face contact as excessive.

ewing
12-17-2017, 04:03 PM
If you hit someone on the arm it's a foul. If you wind up and hammer them as hard as possible and follow through and throw them into the stands it's going to be a flagrant. In neither case was "an attempt made on the ball". It's a judgement call of the refs ... this year they appear to be officiating any head/face contact as excessive.

I thought he was referring to the play at the end of the sixers game where Joel made a play on the ball and ininvertently hit Roberson in the head. The ref missed the foul call in no way was or should it have been called flagrant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

warfelg
12-17-2017, 05:34 PM
I thought he was referring to the play at the end of the sixers game where Joel made a play on the ball and ininvertently hit Roberson in the head. The ref missed the foul call in no way was or should it have been called flagrant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I talked about that one being a missed call.

Iím talking about 3rd Q when Embiid went for the dunk and Jerami Grant fouled him by double grabbing Embiids right biceps and pulled.

krazylegz
12-20-2017, 04:36 PM
havent watched more than like 10 games all season,but i thought they were going to be more mindful when offensive players initiate the contact...thus far,i havent seen a difference...that in my mind is the problem with the nba

Scoots
12-20-2017, 09:22 PM
havent watched more than like 10 games all season,but i thought they were going to be more mindful when offensive players initiate the contact...thus far,i havent seen a difference...that in my mind is the problem with the nba

It's definitely better ... but a really small amount better. What they are doing is not counting the shot after a rip through some of the time.

warfelg
12-25-2017, 04:44 PM
945356680983916544

I've seen this call a few times this year and it's annoying.

kobe4thewinbang
12-25-2017, 06:34 PM
Refs were actually calling techs and fouls on the Warriors in the....FIRST QUARTER. An exciting game ruined by the zebras. Durant fouled Wade and LeBron. Should have had at least 5 fouls.

Scoots
12-26-2017, 12:50 AM
945356680983916544

I've seen this call a few times this year and it's annoying.

Honestly, the NBA really has to fix the rules. Offensive players create contact all over the place and the automatic foul is against the defense. Defenders have equal right to occupied space as an offensive player ... any contact created by the offensive player should be a no-call or an offensive foul.

Scoots
12-26-2017, 09:29 PM
The refs stole Christmas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWeH7IjUGaE

Vee-Rex
12-27-2017, 12:21 AM
The refs stole Christmas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWeH7IjUGaE

Interesting that the NBA reviewed and said that Durant fouled LeBron 3 times in the closing minutes.

I didn't even watch the game (god I'm hating Christmas more each year) because of family ****, but it looks like the Cavs benefited from some calls early on and the Warriors benefited at the end of the game.

I imagine that the end of a close game, Christmas day, in a loud freaking arena led to the officials swallowing their whistles - I really, really hate that they allow home court to influence that. We'll see if the officials do the same thing for the Cavs in Cleveland if the game is close at the end.

warfelg
12-27-2017, 08:51 AM
Honestly, the NBA really has to fix the rules. Offensive players create contact all over the place and the automatic foul is against the defense. Defenders have equal right to occupied space as an offensive player ... any contact created by the offensive player should be a no-call or an offensive foul.

This isn't even a "fixing" a rule thing. That's just not a foul. Simmons was on the ground long before the Knick player went for the rebound. It's just a no call.

Scoots
12-27-2017, 10:12 AM
This isn't even a "fixing" a rule thing. That's just not a foul. Simmons was on the ground long before the Knick player went for the rebound. It's just a no call.

The refs are interpreting the rules in a way that it doesn't matter what the defender does, if there is "illegal contact" they are just calling the foul on the defender. I agree that that should not have been a foul, it should have been a no-call ... but in general I think the rule or the interpretation of the rule is broken.

Scoots
12-27-2017, 10:30 AM
Interesting that the NBA reviewed and said that Durant fouled LeBron 3 times in the closing minutes.

I didn't even watch the game (god I'm hating Christmas more each year) because of family ****, but it looks like the Cavs benefited from some calls early on and the Warriors benefited at the end of the game.

I imagine that the end of a close game, Christmas day, in a loud freaking arena led to the officials swallowing their whistles - I really, really hate that they allow home court to influence that. We'll see if the officials do the same thing for the Cavs in Cleveland if the game is close at the end.

I don't think it's a home/away thing but rather a "big game" thing. I haven't seen much of a home court advantage with the refs, but they are definitely calling heavily in favor of offense more early in games than late ... and of course, both are broken.

This year there is an emphasis on a defender going toward a shooter being a foul, but an offensive player can jump into a stationary defender and get a call. The offensive player needs to be protected, but a smart defender who closes out on a shooter and stops short of contact shouldn't be penalized if the offensive player takes up that space just to get a foul call.

warfelg
12-27-2017, 10:59 AM
The refs are interpreting the rules in a way that it doesn't matter what the defender does, if there is "illegal contact" they are just calling the foul on the defender. I agree that that should not have been a foul, it should have been a no-call ... but in general I think the rule or the interpretation of the rule is broken.

Itís more the interpretation of the rule. They need to do a better job of teaching the refs about ďincidentalĒ contact. A situation like Simmons there. Or a defender running with a guy hands up and the offensive player leaning in a bit and when jumping the bodies hit. To me thatís not a foul, thatís two guys fighting for prostitution.

Scoots
12-27-2017, 11:48 AM
Itís more the interpretation of the rule. They need to do a better job of teaching the refs about ďincidentalĒ contact. A situation like Simmons there. Or a defender running with a guy hands up and the offensive player leaning in a bit and when jumping the bodies hit. To me thatís not a foul, thatís two guys fighting for prostitution.

I've never seen two guys fighting for prostitution. :)

The hand-checking rule interpretation has gone too far to the point where almost all contact is a foul on the defense.

Vee-Rex
12-27-2017, 05:34 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves with officiating is when a play is reviewed and the defender fouled the ball-handler (which caused him to lose the ball) and the possession is given to the defender's team. I've always hated that.

I understand that stuff happens during the flow of a game - can't stop the pace just to look at whether or not something should be a call. But if the review is already in place for ball possession and a foul is determined to be the cause of the turnover in question, they should, in the very least, award the ball to the team whose player was fouled (or retroactively call a foul). Either way would be fine with me.

Scoots
12-27-2017, 08:31 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves with officiating is when a play is reviewed and the defender fouled the ball-handler (which caused him to lose the ball) and the possession is given to the defender's team. I've always hated that.

I understand that stuff happens during the flow of a game - can't stop the pace just to look at whether or not something should be a call. But if the review is already in place for ball possession and a foul is determined to be the cause of the turnover in question, they should, in the very least, award the ball to the team whose player was fouled (or retroactively call a foul). Either way would be fine with me.

I get what you are saying, but the problem is that in-review there are a dozen fouls that can be called on every play.

Honestly I would much rather the refs be consistent all the time than be "right" all the time.

FlashBolt
12-27-2017, 08:33 PM
I get what you are saying, but the problem is that in-review there are a dozen fouls that can be called on every play.

Honestly I would much rather the refs be consistent all the time than be "right" all the time.

I think what he means that if they are reviewing the play to begin with, they should make the right call regardless of what specific play they are looking for. There isn't enough time to be correct all the time but why review a play if you're not going to start from the root cause?

likemystylez
12-27-2017, 10:46 PM
Refs were actually calling techs and fouls on the Warriors in the....FIRST QUARTER. An exciting game ruined by the zebras. Durant fouled Wade and LeBron. Should have had at least 5 fouls.

Ive always thought that technical fouls should be reviewed after the game, and the refs should have microphones to see what the player was arguing about. If the player is complaining about a call made that the ref legitimately missed... and the video shows that, then the ref should have to pay the fine for the technical or sit there and get blasted by the player. refs are let off the hook too easily. (I also think a refs score card should be public knowledge for fans to be able to see who the bad refs are and who the good ones are)

ON the flip side, if a player is complaining about a call that wasnt made, or because he doesnt think the game is being called fair..... the player is responsible to keep his cool in that situation (which also happens a good amount of the time)

Scoots
12-27-2017, 11:05 PM
I think what he means that if they are reviewing the play to begin with, they should make the right call regardless of what specific play they are looking for. There isn't enough time to be correct all the time but why review a play if you're not going to start from the root cause?

Yeah, I get that ... but then every replay won't be to get one aspect of that play correct it will be spending time to find the first foul on that play. Hey, we're replaying that play and it turns out a player actually fouled another player just after the inbound ... lets call that foul and run the clock back 16 seconds. I don't want that ... it's a slippery slope.

FlashBolt
12-27-2017, 11:10 PM
Yeah, I get that ... but then every replay won't be to get one aspect of that play correct it will be spending time to find the first foul on that play. Hey, we're replaying that play and it turns out a player actually fouled another player just after the inbound ... lets call that foul and run the clock back 16 seconds. I don't want that ... it's a slippery slope.

How many plays do the ref actually stop to review in a game, though? It doesn't even have to take that long but NBA has got to work on getting external refs to expedite some of these plays that are being reviewed. And I don't mean 16 seconds back but it should be something that is directly correlated with the play being questioned. I'd also like if there was an option for a team to contest a call. Maybe give them three attempts per team, per game. If the ref says it is out on player X when player Y hits player X's arm and refs say it is player Y's ball, a team should be able to contest it. NBA is growing at a rapid pace where the young demographic are more NBA-oriented than NFL. It's only proper NBA adjusts their game as well to grow with some concerns people may have.

Scoots
12-28-2017, 12:17 AM
How many plays do the ref actually stop to review in a game, though? It doesn't even have to take that long but NBA has got to work on getting external refs to expedite some of these plays that are being reviewed. And I don't mean 16 seconds back but it should be something that is directly correlated with the play being questioned. I'd also like if there was an option for a team to contest a call. Maybe give them three attempts per team, per game. If the ref says it is out on player X when player Y hits player X's arm and refs say it is player Y's ball, a team should be able to contest it. NBA is growing at a rapid pace where the young demographic are more NBA-oriented than NFL. It's only proper NBA adjusts their game as well to grow with some concerns people may have.

I agree with that. If there is a foul the directly effects the thing they are reviewing for that was not called I could get behind them calling possession based on the missed foul. I also wouldn't mind if coaches got challenge flags ... but if a coach calls for one of their replays and the refs see a blatant travel as part of that play before the foul the coach is complaining about do you want the refs to call the travel and void the foul?

FlashBolt
12-28-2017, 12:45 AM
I agree with that. If there is a foul the directly effects the thing they are reviewing for that was not called I could get behind them calling possession based on the missed foul. I also wouldn't mind if coaches got challenge flags ... but if a coach calls for one of their replays and the refs see a blatant travel as part of that play before the foul the coach is complaining about do you want the refs to call the travel and void the foul?

It should probably pertain to what the ref was arguing and if they are somewhat related. I don't think if it affects the play much or at all, it should be considered. At least what this does is stop all the people from complaining and the challenging flags could be the scapegoat.

KnickNyKnick
12-29-2017, 11:56 PM
Horrible no call tonight on the OKC game. Giannis Stepped out of bounds on the winning play. how the heck dont they pay attention to the final play LoL! The ref was literally RIGHT THERE!

Scoots
12-30-2017, 01:12 AM
Horrible no call tonight on the OKC game. Giannis Stepped out of bounds on the winning play. how the heck dont they pay attention to the final play LoL! The ref was literally RIGHT THERE!

Because they are literally trained what to look at based on the play and they are not looking at his feet. They need to add another ref to add areas of focus. That lack of eyes is why travels are so seldom called along the base line and in the key.

AI
12-30-2017, 03:14 PM
The whole OKC bench and even Donovan was asking for a review immediately after the play and yet they didnít do so. Thatís unacceptable.

Brewersfan255
12-30-2017, 03:28 PM
The whole OKC bench and even Donovan was asking for a review immediately after the play and yet they didnít do so. Thatís unacceptable.

Itís not reviewable. There has to be a call made. For example if he called it out of bounds in the first place then they can review it. But since there was no whistle itís not reviewable

Giannis94
12-30-2017, 05:14 PM
Itís not reviewable. There has to be a call made. For example if he called it out of bounds in the first place then they can review it. But since there was no whistle itís not reviewable

Good call.. Did not know that. The Bucks broadcast st the time of the call said it was a reviewable play.

KnickNyKnick
12-30-2017, 10:48 PM
I read they are looking to change the rules after this one.

Giannis94
12-31-2017, 11:59 AM
I read they are looking to change the rules after this one.

Giannis is so good- that he influences rule changes.

#IMMAKINGPSDGREATAGAIN

warfelg
12-31-2017, 12:23 PM
I read they are looking to change the rules after this one.

They really should. I feel like if the coach wants to use a TO and have them look at it he should be allowed to.

The win/win there:
If you get it right you get the ball at mid court, points off the board, and you get to setup a play.

If you get it wrong you get the ball at your own baseline, points on the board, and you burned a TO.

You can only do this if you have TO's left. You can't ask for a foul to be reviewed. Just OB, who touched it last, and goaltending/interference can be looked at.

More-Than-Most
01-01-2018, 01:43 AM
https://streamable.com/0w0yq

this right here is another reason why i will never ever consider this pos for mvp or one of the best players in basketball... welcome to 30 percent of his game.

Saddletramp
01-01-2018, 07:04 AM
https://streamable.com/0w0yq

this right here is another reason why i will never ever consider this pos for mvp or one of the best players in basketball... welcome to 30 percent of his game.

I'm glad you have an MVP vote. This kind of **** happens most games.

Ironman5219
01-01-2018, 09:40 AM
They need to stop the super star treatment and just call the game as it is. If a player actions cause a foul, call it! All I care about is consistency, I don't care about player feelings

archdevil84
01-01-2018, 01:39 PM
they should also raise the penalty for flopping to such levels that players simply wont do it anymore. 1 flop caught suspended for 10 games. 2nd flop caught suspended for 20 games and so on. no reason to continue allow that soft ****

Scoots
01-01-2018, 02:11 PM
They need to stop the super star treatment and just call the game as it is. If a player actions cause a foul, call it! All I care about is consistency, I don't care about player feelings

Exactly my thoughts. But I don't think they can even call it consistently with 3 refs anymore. The players know where the refs are not looking and they get away with stuff.

Scoots
01-01-2018, 02:15 PM
they should also raise the penalty for flopping to such levels that players simply wont do it anymore. 1 flop caught suspended for 10 games. 2nd flop caught suspended for 20 games and so on. no reason to continue allow that soft ****

When the flopping rules came out I said they were going to make no difference at all and they haven't. They need to start with publishing every flop call and they should count as technical fouls so the fines and suspensions are included in the system. Also the judges should be retired players who lost big games because of flops.

kdspurman
01-03-2018, 11:00 AM
Trying to figure out how 3 refs can watch the ball go in the basket, and not at least blow a whistle when Beasley tries to dribble up w/o inbounding or a stoppage in play. I know it's an odd scenario, but at the very least the ball went in the basket, that much was obvious.

948378993111203840

Scoots
01-03-2018, 11:32 AM
I've seen too many 10 step travels to be surprised when refs screw something so fundamental up anymore. I loved Pop's reaction though.

kdspurman
01-03-2018, 03:46 PM
I've seen too many 10 step travels to be surprised when refs screw something so fundamental up anymore. I loved Pop's reaction though.

Yea, its definitely been pretty bad. But missing the ball actually go in the basket is a new low lol

Scoots
01-03-2018, 05:49 PM
Yea, its definitely been pretty bad. But missing the ball actually go in the basket is a new low lol

Maybe ... but this one is one of my all-time favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx0WP_NA0xg

kdspurman
01-03-2018, 06:00 PM
Maybe ... but this one is one of my all-time favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx0WP_NA0xg

At least they called it :laugh2:

Scoots
01-03-2018, 06:16 PM
At least they called it :laugh2:

After half of the arena was yelling it at them. Did the refs not eventually get it right with Manu?

kdspurman
01-03-2018, 06:30 PM
After half of the arena was yelling it at them. Did the refs not eventually get it right with Manu?

The score keeper added points late, but the refs didn't know what to do. The only reason they stopped to discuss it was that same reason, everyone was yelling at them. They counted it as a 2, but eventually went to review it at the following break.

mike_noodles
01-16-2018, 09:02 AM
Every day somebody is coming out and harshly criticizing the refs. The refs have lost control of the games it seems and the league has lost control of the refs. We the fans have noticed this for years. The superstar calls, the rule changes in crunch time or playoffs, home team favoritism, etc. We've seen it all.

Does Silver need to step in?

How do they fix this problem?

Are the players over-blowing it?

Is it just a perception issue and there is no problem with the refs?

I have long thought that reffing in the NBA was a problem and the worst of the 4 major sports. Even the way the NBA handles replays is Mickey Mouse. They pick up a computer monitor and turn it around at mid court, it looks so unprofessional compared to how every other league handles it.

Jamiecballer
01-16-2018, 09:36 AM
I agree the public criticisms are out of control and I expect privately that Silver has plans to address it. Everything he has done so far has been proactive so I imagine it's very much on his radar

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Scoots
01-16-2018, 10:43 AM
Every day somebody is coming out and harshly criticizing the refs. The refs have lost control of the games it seems and the league has lost control of the refs. We the fans have noticed this for years. The superstar calls, the rule changes in crunch time or playoffs, home team favoritism, etc. We've seen it all.

Does Silver need to step in?

How do they fix this problem?

Are the players over-blowing it?

Is it just a perception issue and there is no problem with the refs?

I have long thought that reffing in the NBA was a problem and the worst of the 4 major sports. Even the way the NBA handles replays is Mickey Mouse. They pick up a computer monitor and turn it around at mid court, it looks so unprofessional compared to how every other league handles it.

I think a big part of it is that the home announcer teams are employed by the teams they are calling and then tend to slant their coverage to the home team and against the refs. There are a huge number of calls not made each way in every game I've seen.

The changes in the playoffs in officiating has always bugged me. Why should the game suddenly change? That said a 7 game series IS a very different game than the regular season even if the officiating didn't change.

Silver has talked about some changes, but most of the changes have been PR changes and not actual changes.

Things that are fairly simple that should be done:

1. I think they need to start with adding a 4th ref so more calls are made, calls are more consistent, and so each ref has a shorter distance to move from play to play and the angles of viewing the plays increase.

2. Give each coach 2 challenges that cost them a timeout but so the refs can get it right.

3. Make the toothless flopping rule not toothless. Have the review process be based on player/fan complaints. Make them count as technical fouls. Expand the system to include arm locks so that arm locks found in review result in technical fouls. Keep in mind each technical costs a player money, and the 16th one costs a 1 game suspension and a game check.

4. Stop calling a foul on the defender when the offensive player creates the contact. Make it mostly a no call and on the more egregious ones make it an offensive foul.

5. Review should be done remotely in NY and the call can just be transmitted directly to the refs. No need to the on-floor conference.

6. There should be ref teams rather than have them mix and match so much, it would have them travel less and hopefully help them work together better. There should also be more refs employed. There are around 65 refs, when they add a 4th ref per game that needs to go to 90 ... they should probably bump that up to 120 or so so they can travel less and work fewer games. Working fewer games should help make them somewhat more consistent.

7. The top rated teams should work the national games and should officiate more games of the top teams.

8. There should be more turnover in the refs employed by the NBA. The bottom 10% should be replaced every year.

9. The bad rules need to be fixed. The illegal screen rules are poorly written and officiated. The travel rules are similarly complicated and poorly officiated. Simplify the rules and make the players adhere to them.

Most of what I want is the officiating to be consistent. Start by each crew being consistent from the start of each game to the end of that game (I hate it when the way the game is being called changes during the game). Next have each crew call the game consistent game to game. Then lets get all of the crews calling the game the same. Then lets get every call correct.

Saddletramp
01-16-2018, 02:53 PM
I think a big part of it is that the home announcer teams are employed by the teams they are calling and then tend to slant their coverage to the home team and against the refs. There are a huge number of calls not made each way in every game I've seen.

The changes in the playoffs in officiating has always bugged me. Why should the game suddenly change? That said a 7 game series IS a very different game than the regular season even if the officiating didn't change.

Silver has talked about some changes, but most of the changes have been PR changes and not actual changes.

Things that are fairly simple that should be done:

1. I think they need to start with adding a 4th ref so more calls are made, calls are more consistent, and so each ref has a shorter distance to move from play to play and the angles of viewing the plays increase.

2. Give each coach 2 challenges that cost them a timeout but so the refs can get it right.

3. Make the toothless flopping rule not toothless. Have the review process be based on player/fan complaints. Make them count as technical fouls. Expand the system to include arm locks so that arm locks found in review result in technical fouls. Keep in mind each technical costs a player money, and the 16th one costs a 1 game suspension and a game check.

4. Stop calling a foul on the defender when the offensive player creates the contact. Make it mostly a no call and on the more egregious ones make it an offensive foul.

5. Review should be done remotely in NY and the call can just be transmitted directly to the refs. No need to the on-floor conference.

6. There should be ref teams rather than have them mix and match so much, it would have them travel less and hopefully help them work together better. There should also be more refs employed. There are around 65 refs, when they add a 4th ref per game that needs to go to 90 ... they should probably bump that up to 120 or so so they can travel less and work fewer games. Working fewer games should help make them somewhat more consistent.

7. The top rated teams should work the national games and should officiate more games of the top teams.

8. There should be more turnover in the refs employed by the NBA. The bottom 10% should be replaced every year.

9. The bad rules need to be fixed. The illegal screen rules are poorly written and officiated. The travel rules are similarly complicated and poorly officiated. Simplify the rules and make the players adhere to them.

Most of what I want is the officiating to be consistent. Start by each crew being consistent from the start of each game to the end of that game (I hate it when the way the game is being called changes during the game). Next have each crew call the game consistent game to game. Then lets get all of the crews calling the game the same. Then lets get every call correct.

I'm with all of that but the refs have their own union, don't they? I doubt they'd want to ref less games because they'd (I'd assume) make less money. And if they add an extra 30 refs (wish I'm totally on board with), who's paying? The fans, I'm guessing.

Scoots
01-16-2018, 05:35 PM
I'm with all of that but the refs have their own union, don't they? I doubt they'd want to ref less games because they'd (I'd assume) make less money. And if they add an extra 30 refs (wish I'm totally on board with), who's paying? The fans, I'm guessing.

The fans always end up paying eventually ... but the league and the players union should split it.

Saddletramp
01-16-2018, 05:39 PM
The fans always end up paying eventually ... but the league and the players union should split it.

Maybe throw on another sponser's logo on the jerseys.

Scoots
01-16-2018, 08:16 PM
Maybe throw on another sponser's logo on the jerseys.

An additional 50 refs is pocket change for the NBA/union. No need to go hunting money.

50 new refs will be around $5M total. They can take that straight from the PR budget for the league.

Saddletramp
01-16-2018, 08:56 PM
But would they? And this would admit that they're falling behind (which they obviously are).

Scoots
01-16-2018, 09:48 PM
But would they? And this would admit that they're falling behind (which they obviously are).

If Silver tells them to? Sure.

Sly Guy
01-17-2018, 05:53 PM
better than last year. Still can't stand the reputation calls.

Scoots
01-17-2018, 06:41 PM
better than last year. Still can't stand the reputation calls.

The "reputation calls" come from film review and are a legit tactic to the officials not being able to see everything. Andre Iguodala has earned a reputation for being able to swipe down on the ball and not foul. Early on he was called for that foul automatically because the refs see the swipe and hear a slap and they call the foul ... they reviewed game after game of him doing that and saw that he wasn't actually fouling over and over. Because the refs knew he usually didn't foul they became less likely to call him on that ... to the point that Iguodala could do this to LeBron and not get the automatic whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZ2L65R0XA

So, I want it called RIGHT ... and sometimes, with the limitations of humans, reputation is going to help get it right.

Sly Guy
01-17-2018, 07:53 PM
The "reputation calls" come from film review and are a legit tactic to the officials not being able to see everything. Andre Iguodala has earned a reputation for being able to swipe down on the ball and not foul. Early on he was called for that foul automatically because the refs see the swipe and hear a slap and they call the foul ... they reviewed game after game of him doing that and saw that he wasn't actually fouling over and over. Because the refs knew he usually didn't foul they became less likely to call him on that ... to the point that Iguodala could do this to LeBron and not get the automatic whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZ2L65R0XA

So, I want it called RIGHT ... and sometimes, with the limitations of humans, reputation is going to help get it right.

Yeah, refs should look at scouting reports for the players they're about to ref, and look for points of focus. That's smart reffing, cuz every player plays the game differently, and that means you're gonna have to look at different points of a player's game where the rules need to be decided upon and called. But don't give automatic calls. That's just BS, and a cop out. And that happens WAY too much in the NBA.

Giannis94
01-17-2018, 11:11 PM
Bledsoe got a flagrant one on a olnyk flop. **** you nba.

ewing
01-17-2018, 11:44 PM
Only watched final 8 mins but Dereck Stafford totally blew the end of the Knicks griz game tonight.


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ewing
01-20-2018, 09:17 AM
Refs seemed to stepped up there role in making sure everyone is a ***** since the Affolo/CP3 incidents


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Scoots
01-20-2018, 10:50 AM
I hadn't seen this anywhere but heard on the radio that the NBA officials are the youngest on average they've been in 40 years. I knew a bunch of old vets had recently retired but hadn't realized quite how many.

I think the new refs are struggling with having players mad at themselves and they are not communicating well with the players which is making the players and the coaches more annoyed. One ref actually went directly at Shaun Livingston, and when they touched threw Livingston from the game for his first career ejection.

The refs need to do a better job of working WITH the players, and we need to be a little patient for them to work in to shape.

thawv
01-25-2018, 08:42 AM
I just ran in to Tim Donaghy. He said to say hello.

Saddletramp
01-25-2018, 06:34 PM
I just ran in to Tim Donaghy. He said to say hello.

In the courtyard or in the mess hall? Hope it wasn't in the showers. 😳

Scoots
01-26-2018, 10:00 AM
David Locke had a couple suggestions that I like.

Players get unlimited challenges of calls for a replay, but if they are wrong they can't play for the remainder of the quarter. I'd amend that to be the rest of the quarter but not less than 3 minutes.

Announcers who call out the refs for a bad call who are wrong get a fine.

warfelg
01-26-2018, 10:42 AM
David Locke had a couple suggestions that I like.

Players get unlimited challenges of calls for a replay, but if they are wrong they can't play for the remainder of the quarter. I'd amend that to be the rest of the quarter but not less than 3 minutes.

Announcers who call out the refs for a bad call who are wrong get a fine.

Sorry those are both terrible.

I can just see it now:
"LeBron arguing he didn't step OB there, just 30 seconds into the 4th here. And yea, he's challenging that."
"Looks close"
"Ophf, they are going to say he was OB, that's it for LeBron in game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals."

15 minutes later:
"And there you have it, in game 7 the Cavs go from up 5, to losing by 12 without LeBron in the fourth quarter thanks to that challenge."


Yea.....they'll never do that.

As for fining announcers.....those are network employees, not NBA or collectively bargained employees. Good luck with that one. Why not fine writers and fans on twitter for complaining?

Scoots
01-26-2018, 12:01 PM
Sorry those are both terrible.

I can just see it now:
"LeBron arguing he didn't step OB there, just 30 seconds into the 4th here. And yea, he's challenging that."
"Looks close"
"Ophf, they are going to say he was OB, that's it for LeBron in game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals."

15 minutes later:
"And there you have it, in game 7 the Cavs go from up 5, to losing by 12 without LeBron in the fourth quarter thanks to that challenge."


Yea.....they'll never do that.

As for fining announcers.....those are network employees, not NBA or collectively bargained employees. Good luck with that one. Why not fine writers and fans on twitter for complaining?

It's LeBron's choice to challenge that call. He can choose not to too. And you've got to admit that would SIGNIFICANTLY cut down on the complaining and improve the officiating.

The local announcers are employed by the team IIRC so yeah, they are employed by the NBA. And the fine could just be $50 per. And the guy who proposed it, David Locke, calls games for the Jazz.

warfelg
01-26-2018, 12:33 PM
It's LeBron's choice to challenge that call. He can choose not to too. And you've got to admit that would SIGNIFICANTLY cut down on the complaining and improve the officiating.

The local announcers are employed by the team IIRC so yeah, they are employed by the NBA. And the fine could just be $50 per. And the guy who proposed it, David Locke, calls games for the Jazz.

I think it would get even worse to be honest. Again would you rather just a bad call, or a bad call and no superstar player while the game is decided.

And good for him for suggesting it. But team employees are not nba employees.

Scoots
01-26-2018, 03:52 PM
I think it would get even worse to be honest. Again would you rather just a bad call, or a bad call and no superstar player while the game is decided.

And good for him for suggesting it. But team employees are not nba employees.

It is the player's choice to challenge a call ... if they choose to and they are wrong then I'm fine with them no longer being in the game.

Based on the collective bargaining agreement the NBA teams are treated like divisions of the NBA ... the NBA can set rules that the teams then must follow. I would be surprised if team employee contracts don't have some reference to following NBA rules. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a tough sell, but I like it nonetheless.

warfelg
01-26-2018, 04:39 PM
That first one is never getting through. NBA would lose money over that. Star and super star players possibly missing time? Can you imagine the first time itís a wrong call, they challenge it, and itís not overturned? That player would have to sit with the same wrong call twice.

A much better one would be giving a limit (unlimited is just silly); make the coach ask for it; and if they are wrong assess a team technical.

And again, the second one is a very tough call. Those guys are trying to inform viewers of what happened and are entitled to an opinion.

Scoots
01-26-2018, 05:39 PM
That first one is never getting through. NBA would lose money over that. Star and super star players possibly missing time? Can you imagine the first time itís a wrong call, they challenge it, and itís not overturned? That player would have to sit with the same wrong call twice.

A much better one would be giving a limit (unlimited is just silly); make the coach ask for it; and if they are wrong assess a team technical.

And again, the second one is a very tough call. Those guys are trying to inform viewers of what happened and are entitled to an opinion.

How would a player "have to sit with the same wrong call twice"? If the call was wrong it would cost nothing and gain them free throws or possession or whatever the correct result of the play would be. It would only cost them if the call was right.

The point is to get the players to manage their behavior toward refs while also improving the officiating. If it's the coach calling for the replay it doesn't have the same effect, it has the opposite. I'd be okay with coaches having 1 challenge a game and if they are wrong it should cost 2 2nd half timeouts.

Yes, the tv guys are entitled to an opinion, but they are acting as expert witnesses and are part of the NBA PR machine and when they say something was a foul when it was not it reflects poorly on the NBA and should not be allowed. Not all of them do it, but some do it all the time.

warfelg
01-26-2018, 06:48 PM
lose 2 2nd half TO's? Man you are going in the wrong direction here.

And are you going to question getting the same call wrong twice? Like that hasn't happened before.

Scoots
01-27-2018, 12:38 AM
lose 2 2nd half TO's? Man you are going in the wrong direction here.

And are you going to question getting the same call wrong twice? Like that hasn't happened before.

I think a coaches replay request should not be cheap. If it is then coaches will use them too casually, and the game is already more disjointed than it should be.

I don't recall a ref blatantly getting a call wrong on replay within the current rules.

warfelg
01-27-2018, 08:18 AM
You donít think a team technical would be enough? Give them a point and the ball?

Scoots
01-27-2018, 01:41 PM
You donít think a team technical would be enough? Give them a point and the ball?

I'd much rather lose a TO than give the opponent extra points.

Vee-Rex
01-27-2018, 04:40 PM
David Locke had a couple suggestions that I like.

Players get unlimited challenges of calls for a replay, but if they are wrong they can't play for the remainder of the quarter. I'd amend that to be the rest of the quarter but not less than 3 minutes.

Announcers who call out the refs for a bad call who are wrong get a fine.

I like the DIRECTION of this idea, but I don't think it should be implemented that way. I don't think players should be penalized by missing gametime. I'll cover that at the end of my post.

The major issue with the "challenge flag" in the NBA is that the action is often too constant to do anything. Unless it results in a deadball, what are the refs gonna do? Blow the whistle and stop the action?

The only way challenges could work is if a player can retroactively challenge a play. But then the NBA would have to agree on a new group of rules for implementation. Something like:

-Challenges can only be made during deadballs. If the challenge is lost, team loses a timeout.

-If player was fouled and it should've been 2 free throws, then they will shoot those free throws following the challenge.

-If out of bounds was called on the wrong player, then the player involved in the play gets to shoot 1 free throw at the next deadball to make up for it (this could even cause players to admit when they KNOW it went out on them, to avoid the other team challenging it, winning, and getting a free point).

(the above ^^ are just examples I'm throwing at the wall - not saying they're the best ways to compensate for wrong calls)

...and so on. The compensation for a missed/wrong call on a retroactive ruling would need to be heavily discussed and critiqued and account for as many details as possible.

I don't think guys should be penalized for being wrong on a challenge. Rather, just limit the amount of challenges they can have while SIMULTANEOUSLY installing muuuuuch stricter enforcement against complaining. You wanna argue and yell at a ref? Automatic technical. Got a problem with a call? Use a challenge on it at the next dead ball. It should be resolved professionally and without a lot of bickering/complaining.

Give each player [insert number] amount of challenges, or give each team [insert number] amount of challenges. Keep it low, but if the challenge is successful, then they don't lose the timeout.

The goal is to cut down on complaining/whining and all the issues coming from that (stricter enforcement of technicals when players complain), while giving players a professional way to dispute a call they disagree on (retroactive compensation).

Scoots
01-27-2018, 08:02 PM
I think the players should be encouraged to talk to refs and the refs to talk to the players. In the 80s (before games became so loud) the best refs would tell a player "Tim, get your hand out of he back, you do that again and I'm calling it" ... it meant the players would know where the foul came from and they wouldn't react so much.

I don't think you want players showing no emotion. That's part of the show. They just have to keep it within reason.

The point of the player replay was so if a player yelled at a ref the ref could answer "Do you want a replay? If not, shut up about it" There has to be some significant cost to the player so they only go off when they are sure ... and if the player is sure then that's good because we want the game called right.

I know what you are talking about with the deadball challenges, but I think it's got to be the opposite. It has to be immediate. Like in the first 5 seconds after the event. If a player yells "and 1" and doesn't get it they get 5 seconds to yell the keyword to the ref to stop the game for a review. If you let the game go forward that one call can significantly shape the game until the next dead ball. i.e. Player A should have picked up their 6th foul, doesn't, scores 12 points before the next dead ball. How do you make that right after the fact?

I don't like the idea of stopping the game more ... I'd rather the refs be better in the first place, and failing that the refs and players need to admit they might be wrong occasionally.

I'd also be in favor of the refs having lattitude to use a finer ruleset when players who are notorious floppers are involved. If Marcus Smart goes flying off the court and the ref isn't SURE he was actually pushed with enough force to send him flying ... just play on.

Scoots
02-08-2018, 11:40 AM
https://twitter.com/bustedcoverage/status/961605349030682625

Need that 4th official.

Vee-Rex
02-08-2018, 07:32 PM
https://twitter.com/bustedcoverage/status/961605349030682625

Need that 4th official.

Agreed.

I can understand the no-call when he had his back to the basket because Butler pushed him. Would've had to call a foul instead of a travel, but I prefer the no-call.

But I was surprised they didn't call the travel on the step-back when I was watching it. It looked really bad. I think because it's LeBron they didn't call it - they rarely whistle him for traveling.

warfelg
02-08-2018, 10:13 PM
Agreed.

I can understand the no-call when he had his back to the basket because Butler pushed him. Would've had to call a foul instead of a travel, but I prefer the no-call.

But I was surprised they didn't call the travel on the step-back when I was watching it. It looked really bad. I think because it's LeBron they didn't call it - they rarely whistle him for traveling.

I almost feel like refs are afraid to call it after the "crab dribble" thing and almost question what he's going to say to somehow blame them.

Scoots
02-08-2018, 10:19 PM
Agreed.

I can understand the no-call when he had his back to the basket because Butler pushed him. Would've had to call a foul instead of a travel, but I prefer the no-call.

But I was surprised they didn't call the travel on the step-back when I was watching it. It looked really bad. I think because it's LeBron they didn't call it - they rarely whistle him for traveling.

That is, I hope, a very small part of it ... I think it's more that they just don't look at all. There are so many egregious travels up top where there is just the one official and he has to look at all the grabbing and hand fighting he just can't look at feet too.

FlashBolt
02-09-2018, 12:13 AM
Refs don't know how to call a travel anymore so they don't even look for it unless it is blatantly obvious. But this has always been an issue.. it's not like refs suddenly stopped calling for it. It's always been a "see it, call it" thing.

Scoots
02-09-2018, 01:02 AM
Refs don't know how to call a travel anymore so they don't even look for it unless it is blatantly obvious. But this has always been an issue.. it's not like refs suddenly stopped calling for it. It's always been a "see it, call it" thing.

In the 80s it was still a focus area for the top ref ... but with the increasing use of the 3 point line the focus went away.

If officials call the game to the rules the players develop the fundamentals, since they haven't for 25 years the players have become sloppy.

TylerSL
02-09-2018, 04:49 AM
I find the refs to be absolutely horrendous. Did anybody watch the Thunder @ Warriors game a few nights ago? In the game, Westbrook was called for offensive foul for falling down, and Durant was charged with a tripping foul when Westbrook clearly tripped over his own feet. In the big picture, they NEVER call travels, their calls are never consistent, and many times the official who is past the three-point line is the one calling fouls underneath the basket. They are also prone to get even the most obvious out-of-bounds calls wrong, before reviewing the play, or "consulting with one another", which only delays the game. It is my opinion that the NBA should get serious about firing some of these officials, or possibly even find brand new ones to replace these clowns who are currently dressing up as refs.

NBA players try to take advantage of the officials, that isn't going to change because they are always going to try to gain a competitive edge. We should want and appreciate that competitive nature in our sports. It is the officials job to control the games and not be swayed by it. The refs who are currently officiating games are clearly not capable of such. They let their emotions get the best of them and they constantly miss obvious calls that everyone else is conditioned to just look past. It's doubtful this opinion will be in the majority, but I don't think the league should settle for third-rate hacks who call themselves officials.

Scoots
02-09-2018, 10:33 AM
I find the refs to be absolutely horrendous. Did anybody watch the Thunder @ Warriors game a few nights ago? In the game, Westbrook was called for offensive foul for falling down, and Durant was charged with a tripping foul when Westbrook clearly tripped over his own feet. In the big picture, they NEVER call travels, their calls are never consistent, and many times the official who is past the three-point line is the one calling fouls underneath the basket. They are also prone to get even the most obvious out-of-bounds calls wrong, before reviewing the play, or "consulting with one another", which only delays the game. It is my opinion that the NBA should get serious about firing some of these officials, or possibly even find brand new ones to replace these clowns who are currently dressing up as refs.

NBA players try to take advantage of the officials, that isn't going to change because they are always going to try to gain a competitive edge. We should want and appreciate that competitive nature in our sports. It is the officials job to control the games and not be swayed by it. The refs who are currently officiating games are clearly not capable of such. They let their emotions get the best of them and they constantly miss obvious calls that everyone else is conditioned to just look past. It's doubtful this opinion will be in the majority, but I don't think the league should settle for third-rate hacks who call themselves officials.

The problem with the officials is that they are too young right now. Firing them won't make them more seasoned overall. I think the NBA should essentially double the number of refs for NBA games, each ref would work fewer games and they should have 4 refs per game. They should go back to working as consistent crews so they can build groups that know how they work and work well together rather than mix them up constantly like they do now and there is often no "leader" among each and every crew. The result of that though is that the officiating will actually get worse for a season or so before it gets better.

Vee-Rex
02-09-2018, 12:39 PM
The problem with the officials is that they are too young right now. Firing them won't make them more seasoned overall. I think the NBA should essentially double the number of refs for NBA games, each ref would work fewer games and they should have 4 refs per game. They should go back to working as consistent crews so they can build groups that know how they work and work well together rather than mix them up constantly like they do now and there is often no "leader" among each and every crew. The result of that though is that the officiating will actually get worse for a season or so before it gets better.

I also believe they should have 4 refs in each game.

Any idea on why they seem to be avoiding it? I'm sure they've kicked around the idea. The NBA is a billionaire corporation, they could easily afford it.

Do they think it would slow games down? I think an extra ref would benefit in a lot of ways, and maybe players would be less likely to do things that would warrant a whistle if they were more convinced that it wouldn't go unnoticed.

Scoots
02-09-2018, 02:01 PM
I also believe they should have 4 refs in each game.

Any idea on why they seem to be avoiding it? I'm sure they've kicked around the idea. The NBA is a billionaire corporation, they could easily afford it.

Do they think it would slow games down? I think an extra ref would benefit in a lot of ways, and maybe players would be less likely to do things that would warrant a whistle if they were more convinced that it wouldn't go unnoticed.

Part of it may be that they are generally just slow to change. It will be expensive to add so many refs and the refs union may feel that it will cost them money so they are resisting it? Also I'm sure they would be very concerned about what sort of damage they will do to all the lower levels of the sport if they suddenly take 60 refs up a level.

I'm sure games would slow down initially, but players would absolutely adjust quickly and the games would speed back up.

TylerSL
02-09-2018, 11:38 PM
The problem with the officials is that they are too young right now. Firing them won't make them more seasoned overall. I think the NBA should essentially double the number of refs for NBA games, each ref would work fewer games and they should have 4 refs per game. They should go back to working as consistent crews so they can build groups that know how they work and work well together rather than mix them up constantly like they do now and there is often no "leader" among each and every crew. The result of that though is that the officiating will actually get worse for a season or so before it gets better.

I would be fine with trying that before firing them outright. I just believe the real problem is the refs themselves and am annoyed that the rest of the NBA community is conditioned to accept their flaws while some want to punish players who argue calls. I agree we need more officials in the game and crews who only officiate together. I also think the league should re-educate them on the basic rules of the game, specifically travels and the restricted area.

Scoots
02-10-2018, 12:17 AM
I would be fine with trying that before firing them outright. I just believe the real problem is the refs themselves and am annoyed that the rest of the NBA community is conditioned to accept their flaws while some want to punish players who argue calls. I agree we need more officials in the game and crews who only officiate together. I also think the league should re-educate them on the basic rules of the game, specifically travels and the restricted area.

This group of officials are the youngest they've been in 30+ years. A lot of vets have retired recently. They, like young players, need time to get better.

warfelg
02-10-2018, 09:35 AM
This group of officials are the youngest they've been in 30+ years. A lot of vets have retired recently. They, like young players, need time to get better.

You know....if this were the NFL where they were part time employees I might agree....but these are full time employees and they shouldn't be this bad. They've made a career out of this and it's not like the rules change all that much from one level to another.

I agree with @TylerSL, they need to put together a crew, and I'm going to take this one step further:
5 person crews.

Why a 5 person crew? You get 4 any given night on the floor. And then you get 1 replay official reviewing the game "real time". That way on a questionable "who's it out on" they can start reviewing while the on floor is talking about it. 3-pt/2-pt can be talked over before a break.

Then if a person on a crew gets hurt or sick, you have someone that can step in and be the 4th person on the court without the NBA having to scramble to get someone in there. Your crew alreadu has the replacement in house.

Scoots
02-10-2018, 11:20 AM
You know....if this were the NFL where they were part time employees I might agree....but these are full time employees and they shouldn't be this bad. They've made a career out of this and it's not like the rules change all that much from one level to another.

I agree with @TylerSL, they need to put together a crew, and I'm going to take this one step further:
5 person crews.

Why a 5 person crew? You get 4 any given night on the floor. And then you get 1 replay official reviewing the game "real time". That way on a questionable "who's it out on" they can start reviewing while the on floor is talking about it. 3-pt/2-pt can be talked over before a break.

Then if a person on a crew gets hurt or sick, you have someone that can step in and be the 4th person on the court without the NBA having to scramble to get someone in there. Your crew alreadu has the replacement in house.

I agree they need to get better, but that's going to take time. I had suggested the fixed crews, they went away from it to reduce travel for the refs and because they used to ref games regionally but the NBA felt that lead to too much bias in the refs, but if there were enough crews to reduce the frequency the crews reffed games they could all travel together nationally.

5 man crews with the review ref on-site isn't really needed when there is already a replay ref watching every game who doesn't have to travel ... they just need to improve their level and standard of communication to the point that the review ref could be giving refs pointers during the game and it might help to improve the game minute to minute as well as making the games move a little faster. You are right that the spare ref would be good in case of an illness or accident or travel issue for one of the refs.

Of course, doubling the size of the pool of refs will dramatically reduce the average experience of the ref pool.

Pfeifer
02-10-2018, 12:28 PM
That is, I hope, a very small part of it ... I think it's more that they just don't look at all. There are so many egregious travels up top where there is just the one official and he has to look at all the grabbing and hand fighting he just can't look at feet too.

They are humans. If you had the most influential NBA player in the world, who is 6ft9, right in your face its a bit intimidating. They are literally scared to make calls on stars, especially Lebron, and get repromanded if the do. NBA officials are hands down the worst in pro sports and effect the game more than any other. There is clear bias and honestly grudges. Every game I see the backside official make a call from 30ft away when another official is 5ft away.

Scoots
02-10-2018, 12:45 PM
They are humans. If you had the most influential NBA player in the world, who is 6ft9, right in your face its a bit intimidating. They are literally scared to make calls on stars, especially Lebron, and get repromanded if the do. NBA officials are hands down the worst in pro sports and effect the game more than any other. There is clear bias and honestly grudges. Every game I see the backside official make a call from 30ft away when another official is 5ft away.

I don't buy that. Sure emotion can't be eliminated, but I think they are genuinely trying to make the right call all the time, they just don't see it all.

Scoots
02-10-2018, 11:53 PM
I hope the NBA does something about stopping the arm extended push-off in the post. That used to be an automatic foul and now apparently it's just post offense. I guess maybe they are trying to help them out with there being so few post scorers anymore?

Also, the grabbing and holding rather than blocking out on rebounds is bugging me. When fundamentals are not officiated correctly the fundamentals fall apart all over the league.

ewing
02-11-2018, 09:53 AM
I hope the NBA does something about stopping the arm extended push-off in the post. That used to be an automatic foul and now apparently it's just post offense. I guess maybe they are trying to help them out with there being so few post scorers anymore?

Also, the grabbing and holding rather than blocking out on rebounds is bugging me. When fundamentals are not officiated correctly the fundamentals fall apart all over the league.

I was watching the Warriors/Spurs game and in the 1st half there was so much hacking. I don't mind physical play but to me physical play is using your strength- The hand check, rooting a guy out, that strong forearm, backing a dude down. Just looked like a lot of slapping and the refs weren't calling it at all.

Scoots
02-11-2018, 03:20 PM
I was watching the Warriors/Spurs game and in the 1st half there was so much hacking. I don't mind physical play but to me physical play is using your strength- The hand check, rooting a guy out, that strong forearm, backing a dude down. Just looked like a lot of slapping and the refs weren't calling it at all.

Yes. Hooking, hacking, holding, clearing out with the off hand, travels, over the back ... seem to be fouls of the past at the moment.

Scoots
02-11-2018, 08:32 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-ref-slaps-player-with-technical-toss-him-from-game-for-vicious-dunk/

This is where NBA refs come from ... the ref 60 feet away calls a taunting foul. THIS sort of stuff is why NBA players are complaining so much to the refs now.

warfelg
02-11-2018, 08:40 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-ref-slaps-player-with-technical-toss-him-from-game-for-vicious-dunk/

This is where NBA refs come from ... the ref 60 feet away calls a taunting foul. THIS sort of stuff is why NBA players are complaining so much to the refs now.

That's absurd. 100% on the closer ref for not stepping in, calling off the other one and correcting them.

Some refs are too concerned about showing up their fellow ref that they let things go by stupidly.

Giannis94
02-26-2018, 11:01 PM
Any other team in the league minus the cabs and that's at least a flagrant. But it's the dubs. So it's cool


https://instagram.com/p/BfrqL2XDrAo/

ewing
02-26-2018, 11:46 PM
Any other team in the league minus the cabs and that's at least a flagrant. But it's the dubs. So it's cool


https://instagram.com/p/BfrqL2XDrAo/


It was a foul that's it

Giannis94
02-27-2018, 12:22 AM
It was a foul that's it

My bad. I thought it wasn't even that. Should it have been more? If I'm in the wrong mods can delete my post. I didn't think anything was called. My bad.

ewing
02-27-2018, 09:39 AM
My bad. I thought it wasn't even that. Should it have been more? If I'm in the wrong mods can delete my post. I didn't think anything was called. My bad.

i don't if it was called. If not they missed it but I don't think it should have been more and I am a bias knicks fan

Giannis94
02-27-2018, 10:00 AM
i don't if it was called. If not they missed it but I don't think it should have been more and I am a bias knicks fan

Yeah I looked a few other places.. They did not call it. But it definitely should have.

Scoots
02-27-2018, 10:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckhsCXxOFg&t=0s

It looks like LeBron wants all the contact he creates called the same as the contact Harden creates.

Scoots
02-27-2018, 10:07 AM
The officials are not at all consistent on calling contact with the head. Early in the season they seemed to be calling everything and now they are letting more go. I think they got in some trouble because they were calling very light contact and now they have gone too far the other way ... of course part of that may be because the players realized they were calling all head/face contact and started acting up WAY more on any kind of contact to sell it.

warfelg
02-27-2018, 10:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckhsCXxOFg&t=0s

It looks like LeBron wants all the contact he creates called the same as the contact Harden creates.

Iím ok with him calling it out. Because it should be.

Scoots
02-27-2018, 10:43 AM
Iím ok with him calling it out. Because it should be.

Paint contact has different rules than outside contact, but other than that I agree they should be called the same, but I think Harden's calls should adjust down to LeBron not the other way around.

It reminds me of back in the 80s in PA when a women's group fought the insurance industry on behalf of men because they felt it was unfair how men were charged more for insurance than women and they won and a court said insurance had to be the same for men and women ... so all of the women in PA got a higher insurance bill. "But that's not what we meant!!!" LeBron should not expect a foul call for contact he creates any more than Harden should.

Vee-Rex
02-27-2018, 12:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckhsCXxOFg&t=0s

It looks like LeBron wants all the contact he creates called the same as the contact Harden creates.

I'd say LeBron using the off-arm to ward off defenders is bad, but every other way he was creating contact (dropping the shoulder, bringing the elbow up, leaning in to bump defenders on drives) is what just about EVERY player does.

It's quite telling that his FTr and FTA is at career lows since his rookie season.

I watch game after game of him being hacked and not getting calls just because he's big and strong. And lately he has been *****ing and crying soooooo much. It's easy to make fun of him for that but hey, I can see why he's frustrated and how it has built up over the season.

Regardless, he's right about one thing: refs reward shooters far more than they should.

Scoots
02-27-2018, 12:39 PM
I'd say LeBron using the off-arm to ward off defenders is bad, but every other way he was creating contact (dropping the shoulder, bringing the elbow up, leaning in to bump defenders on drives) is what just about EVERY player does.

It's quite telling that his FTr and FTA is at career lows since his rookie season.

I watch game after game of him being hacked and not getting calls just because he's big and strong. And lately he has been *****ing and crying soooooo much. It's easy to make fun of him for that but hey, I can see why he's frustrated and how it has built up over the season.

Regardless, he's right about one thing: refs reward shooters far more than they should.

His FTAs are down because of the league's adjustments, and I think Hardens attempts are down too. I agree that LeBron should get legit foul calls that he doesn't get, but he does get calls that are not legit too so it probably evens out in his favor overall. I suspect the NBA will keep reviewing the way the game is being played and adjust the officiating focus again.

ewing
02-27-2018, 03:47 PM
I'd say LeBron using the off-arm to ward off defenders is bad, but every other way he was creating contact (dropping the shoulder, bringing the elbow up, leaning in to bump defenders on drives) is what just about EVERY player does.

It's quite telling that his FTr and FTA is at career lows since his rookie season.


I watch game after game of him being hacked and not getting calls just because he's big and strong. And lately he has been *****ing and crying soooooo much. It's easy to make fun of him for that but hey, I can see why he's frustrated and how it has built up over the season.

Regardless, he's right about one thing: refs reward shooters far more than they should.


He has been a baby his whole career (this isn't new). like most superstars he gets far more calls then he should and in his case gets away with murder to boot b/c he commits an offensive foul on most drives and post ups

Giannis94
03-02-2018, 09:35 PM
Reffs have lost control of the Bucks and pacers game tonight. Mainly screwing the Bucks. But been a total disaster all around. Calling a lot of tickey tacky ******** and not calling the hard fouls. At least 3 t's given in the first quarter unless I missed additional the way they're handing em oit

Giannis94
03-02-2018, 09:38 PM
Actually 5 techs in the first Quarter. Bucks leading 3-2

warfelg
03-03-2018, 08:35 AM
The officiating in the Jazz-Wolves game last night was a disgrace.

Missing56&33
03-03-2018, 07:32 PM
The officiating in the Jazz-Wolves game last night was a disgrace.


X2....it really was

Giannis94
03-05-2018, 10:06 PM
Lance Stephenson just tripped Henson intentionally. Reffs missed it. ****ing horseshit

Scoots
03-05-2018, 10:17 PM
Lance Stephenson just tripped Henson intentionally. Reffs missed it. ****ing horseshit

I didn't see the Lance play but I don't doubt it.

I hate the majority of tripping calls. Out of control and falling down? Just create contact with a defender and yell.

Scoots
03-06-2018, 10:55 PM
Harden gets the calls even after the game is over

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-proved-marcus-smarts-point-levying-15000-fine-215129109.html

Wade n Fade
03-16-2018, 06:52 PM
Is Doc Rivers the biggest whiner when it comes towards officiating?

Scoots
03-16-2018, 11:38 PM
Is Doc Rivers the biggest whiner when it comes towards officiating?

He's high up on that list. I'm amazed he's still employed.

That said, a lot of coaches are on the refs regularly.

Wade n Fade
03-16-2018, 11:38 PM
He's high up on that list. I'm amazed he's still employed.

That said, a lot of coaches are on the refs regularly.

A lot of us are confused why he still has the LAC job. He did well in Boston and Orlando, but he has been woeful in LA.

FlashBolt
03-17-2018, 10:37 PM
Doc's reputation as a coach was that he can get players motivated and defends his players. But if you look at his past history, he's been anything but.

Boston Celtics underachieved and with all that locker room mess that has been unveiling itself, the guy couldn't get it together. I mean, the guy let his PG smash a TV and ignore him when reviewing tape of games.

Then he gets to the Clippers and Chris Paul doesn't even seem to like the guy. Even to the point where there was so much disgust that both teams have been creating some friction (HOU vs LAC).

What an overrated coach. He's had an insane amount of talent the past decade but hasn't achieved much outside of that ring vs Lakers. Before that, he was leading a Celtics team that was a mid-tier team. Not sure why people thought he was a great coach. Not even close.

smith&wesson
03-19-2018, 02:58 PM
So Casey got ejected from the game because of something a fan yelled at the refs.. thatís gotta be some kind of new low for the officials

warfelg
03-19-2018, 08:57 PM
975899096060919808

They called far less hits to the head flagrant 2's this year. This just got a 1.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 09:00 PM
975899096060919808

They called far less hits to the head flagrant 2's this year. This just got a 1.

That wasn't a play on the ball. I don't know what that guy is tweeting.

warfelg
03-19-2018, 09:01 PM
That wasn't a play on the ball. I don't know what that guy is tweeting.

Its called sarcasm.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 09:03 PM
Its called sarcasm.

lame

Scoots
03-19-2018, 10:29 PM
That wasn't a play on the ball. I don't know what that guy is tweeting.

The ball got nothing to do with it.

prodigy
03-28-2018, 12:56 PM
NBA Officiating is by far the worse in pro sports. Refs are holding grudges against players and they love their 15 mins. But the fact is every ref has their own idea of what a foul is or isn't, or who can handle certain contact. Which means we have the most inconstant games ever. Even though we have a rule book.

The problem is refs are not held accountable. Players, coaches, GM's and sometimes even owners are held accountable for their actions. Refs are not. If refs start to get hit with fines or suspensions for inconsistent ref'ing we will see a much better game.

I believe it was Curry awhile back who said he didn't care what the refs call or don't call. Just be consistent so players can know whats going on.

Scoots
03-28-2018, 05:12 PM
NBA Officiating is by far the worse in pro sports. Refs are holding grudges against players and they love their 15 mins. But the fact is every ref has their own idea of what a foul is or isn't, or who can handle certain contact. Which means we have the most inconstant games ever. Even though we have a rule book.

The problem is refs are not held accountable. Players, coaches, GM's and sometimes even owners are held accountable for their actions. Refs are not. If refs start to get hit with fines or suspensions for inconsistent ref'ing we will see a much better game.

I believe it was Curry awhile back who said he didn't care what the refs call or don't call. Just be consistent so players can know whats going on.

Have you watched much baseball over the past decade? All of those issues exist there too.

I think the biggest issue in the NBA is that the game has become too fast and too outside shooting oriented to be officiated like it was 20 years ago. The rules and the system the refs work in have not evolved enough to allow them to be good at the job. In addition to that a lot of the top veteran refs have retired over the last few years so the refs this year are a particularly young group.

- Add a ref up top, 2 refs work baseline to 3 point line extended one way the other two the opposite. Refs move less and that 2nd set of eyes up top takes away so many missed calls.
- Take replay away from the on-court refs and have it done in Secaucus and as quickly as possible communicate the result to the lead ref on-court.
- Add coach challenges to calls, 2 per game, any situation, overturned or not it costs them a timeout.
- Clean up the charge, block, travel, hand check, and screen rules so they are more simply officiated and so people are more likely to agree on the "right" call rather than have the debate like we do now.
- Clean up the rules on what to do when an offensive player creates contact.
- Have flops found in-game or post-game review called as technical fouls.

A more radical idea is to allow members of the public to sign up to be game reviewers and allow the fans to determine what is and isn't a good call and what is and isn't a flop or a technical and have those results in a big-data way adjust the way the game is actually called going forward rather than leaving it to the Competition Committee and the Commissioner.

prodigy
03-29-2018, 10:22 AM
Have you watched much baseball over the past decade? All of those issues exist there too.

I think the biggest issue in the NBA is that the game has become too fast and too outside shooting oriented to be officiated like it was 20 years ago. The rules and the system the refs work in have not evolved enough to allow them to be good at the job. In addition to that a lot of the top veteran refs have retired over the last few years so the refs this year are a particularly young group.

- Add a ref up top, 2 refs work baseline to 3 point line extended one way the other two the opposite. Refs move less and that 2nd set of eyes up top takes away so many missed calls.
- Take replay away from the on-court refs and have it done in Secaucus and as quickly as possible communicate the result to the lead ref on-court.
- Add coach challenges to calls, 2 per game, any situation, overturned or not it costs them a timeout.
- Clean up the charge, block, travel, hand check, and screen rules so they are more simply officiated and so people are more likely to agree on the "right" call rather than have the debate like we do now.
- Clean up the rules on what to do when an offensive player creates contact.
- Have flops found in-game or post-game review called as technical fouls.

A more radical idea is to allow members of the public to sign up to be game reviewers and allow the fans to determine what is and isn't a good call and what is and isn't a flop or a technical and have those results in a big-data way adjust the way the game is actually called going forward rather than leaving it to the Competition Committee and the Commissioner.

Baseball has some issues but its not consistently bad like basketball.

I agree with everything else you mentioned. I've listed much of those in other topics before. i honestly hope basketball steps up and improves. I wouldn't let fans determine anything though.