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View Full Version : Lets say the Cavs win the championship..



HandsOnTheWheel
10-17-2017, 01:02 AM
To break the monotony/acceptance of unfair fate for this upcoming season, lets say the Cavs win the title. Assuming it will be against the Warriors, Lebron, Wade and company would have taken down the best team ever. Both 4 rings each for James and Wade, James having beaten the best team ever twice in a 7 game series.

So that begs the question, where do you rank James and Wade all-time with a hypothetical title over GS this upcoming year? Is James the GOAT with this feat?

FWIW, I don't think the Cavs winning is completely out of the question, and injuries and a number of other things can certainly change a lot but as of right now, I give GS roughly an 80% chance to win Cavs 20%.

Bostonjorge
10-17-2017, 01:08 AM
What if Boston takes out Cleveland. Is James losing to Irving a bigger flop then losing to Dallas in 2011?

IKnowHoops
10-17-2017, 01:10 AM
Nothing changes for most people. A very small amount of people will move him to GOAT, but other than that, you pretty much already have him there, or you never will.

HandsOnTheWheel
10-17-2017, 01:12 AM
What if Boston takes out Cleveland. Is James losing to Irving a bigger flop then losing to Dallas in 2011?

It would take a lot to happen for the C's to take down the Cavs but yes assuming they beat them as well.

Kyben36
10-17-2017, 01:17 AM
a) wont happen
b) wont happen
c) wont happen


if it did. i still say there are major questions over lebron throughout his carear needing to team up with studs, having wade walk on starter for him. I think obviously it helps his legacy. but i think you are really ahead of yourself thinking they will. anyone who watched the bulls know wade isnt special at all anymore. they are going to be asking a ton of Love and Rose this season. and i think that while healthy Thomas would end up making them better cause he is a better playmaker than irving. i think that Thomas may not ever look right and thats why he was traded.

FWIW I see the cavs crumbling at some point in this season. Rose goes down. your asking a 35 year old and a Kevin Love who is no longer really a star to carry a team through the season. Questions will arise when Lebron wont resign and they are struggling. IT comes back near the end of the season but doesnt look like his old self.

I honestly dont expect the cavs to win the east. much less win it all. I think the celtics will end up winning the regular season. also watch out for the Bucks.

eDush
10-17-2017, 03:23 AM
To break the monotony/acceptance of unfair fate for this upcoming season, lets say the Cavs win the title. Assuming it will be against the Warriors, Lebron, Wade and company would have taken down the best team ever. Both 4 rings each for James and Wade, James having beaten the best team ever twice in a 7 game series.

So that begs the question, where do you rank James and Wade all-time with a hypothetical title over GS this upcoming year? Is James the GOAT with this feat?

FWIW, I don't think the Cavs winning is completely out of the question, and injuries and a number of other things can certainly change a lot but as of right now, I give GS roughly an 80% chance to win Cavs 20%.Without Kyrie, their chances has drop to 6.6 percent now barring any major injuries to the competition :nod:

IKnowHoops
10-17-2017, 04:35 AM
a) wont happen
b) wont happen
c) wont happen


if it did. I still say there are major questions over lebron throughout his carear needing to team up with studs, having wade walk on starter for him. I think obviously it helps his legacy. But i think you are really ahead of yourself thinking they will. Anyone who watched the bulls know wade isnt special at all anymore. They are going to be asking a ton of love and rose this season. And i think that while healthy thomas would end up making them better cause he is a better playmaker than irving. I think that thomas may not ever look right and thats why he was traded.

Fwiw i see the cavs crumbling at some point in this season. Rose goes down. Your asking a 35 year old and a kevin love who is no longer really a star to carry a team through the season. Questions will arise when lebron wont resign and they are struggling. It comes back near the end of the season but doesnt look like his old self.

I honestly dont expect the cavs to win the east. Much less win it all. I think the celtics will end up winning the regular season. Also watch out for the bucks.



nothing changes for most people. A very small amount of people will move him to goat, but other than that, you pretty much already have him there, or you never will.

I knew it was coming, but its still annoying when doing the impossible means nothing.

cmellofan15
10-17-2017, 06:33 AM
What if Boston takes out Cleveland. Is James losing to Irving a bigger flop then losing to Dallas in 2011?

This is even more unlikely than the op

ewing
10-17-2017, 08:46 AM
i'd have to watch the games first

Hawkeye15
10-17-2017, 08:59 AM
i'd have to watch the games first

exactly. Until we know HOW they won, none of it matters.

TheDish87
10-17-2017, 09:46 AM
It would take a lot to happen for the C's to take down the Cavs but yes assuming they beat them as well.

i think its more likely the C's beat the Cavs than the Cavs beat GSW

Scoots
10-17-2017, 09:47 AM
Nothing changes for most people. A very small amount of people will move him to GOAT, but other than that, you pretty much already have him there, or you never will.

This.

Vinylman
10-17-2017, 10:25 AM
exactly. Until we know HOW they won, none of it matters.

yep... your basic circle jerk without context (ie most threads on PSD)

hugepatsfan
10-17-2017, 10:31 AM
i think its more likely the C's beat the Cavs than the Cavs beat GSW

That's actually an interesting debate I think, though one we could have better after we see how Boston gels and even CLE. You figure the rotation is 10 players and BOS turned over 6 of them. CLE turned over 5 themselves, and will re-turn one over when IT comes back too. BOS's seems more extreme because the 4 guys staying in the rotation are the only guys staying at all but CLE had about as much turnover among guys that will actually play. CLE has more consistency at the top of the roster though so obviously in better position but people really do underestimate I think how much they've changed as well.

Jamiecballer
10-17-2017, 11:01 AM
What if Boston takes out Cleveland. Is James losing to Irving a bigger flop then losing to Dallas in 2011?#ancientthinking

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
10-17-2017, 11:11 AM
That's actually an interesting debate I think, though one we could have better after we see how Boston gels and even CLE. You figure the rotation is 10 players and BOS turned over 6 of them. CLE turned over 5 themselves, and will re-turn one over when IT comes back too. BOS's seems more extreme because the 4 guys staying in the rotation are the only guys staying at all but CLE had about as much turnover among guys that will actually play. CLE has more consistency at the top of the roster though so obviously in better position but people really do underestimate I think how much they've changed as well.

I think Boston is closer to Cleveland than Cleveland to Golden State.

There has been a ton of roster turnover for both teams, but the Cavs lost 1 of the only 2 reliable players vs. Golden State in Kyrie Irving. That's huge. I understand that the Cavs bench is a bit better but I'm not sure it overcomes that gap.

Now, assuming the Cavs develop terrific chemistry, and IT comes back fully healthy and eventually reaches his 2016 form, and they trade the Brk pick to bring in another star, they could potentially end up closer to GS than BOS is to CLE, but those are a lot of what-ifs.

AllBall
10-17-2017, 12:08 PM
To break the monotony/acceptance of unfair fate for this upcoming season, lets say the Cavs win the title. Assuming it will be against the Warriors, Lebron, Wade and company would have taken down the best team ever. Both 4 rings each for James and Wade, James having beaten the best team ever twice in a 7 game series.

So that begs the question, where do you rank James and Wade all-time with a hypothetical title over GS this upcoming year? Is James the GOAT with this feat?

FWIW, I don't think the Cavs winning is completely out of the question, and injuries and a number of other things can certainly change a lot but as of right now, I give GS roughly an 80% chance to win Cavs 20%.

It can definitely happen. NOTHING should surprise ANYONE anymore in the NBA. It would definitely cement Lebron and Wade's legacy. Wade would be 2-0 against Durant. Lebron would have 4 titles, two Finals MVP and having come down from 3-1 before. Objectively there wouldn't be nothing left to argue, but fans don't tend to be objective.

HandsOnTheWheel
10-17-2017, 12:54 PM
^ Yup

Eh, a little wishful thinking on my part. Mods can close

mightybosstone
10-17-2017, 01:22 PM
How many of these threads do we need every year? Because I'm fairly certain we had like 4-5 throughout last season. Bottom line, when you've been as good as Lebron has been for as long as he's been this good, one series doesn't ultimately make or break your legacy. He's my all-time No. 2, and barring something truly spectacular or horrific, he'll be my all-time No. 2 after the season is over. He just hasn't done enough to surpass Jordan for me, and unless he can win multiple more titles AND stay at this elite level for a while longer, I just don't think he does it in my book.

As for Wade, I think the story of his legacy has pretty much been written already. He's been past his prime for a good 4-5 years now, and he's not going to suddenly awaken peak Wade this year at his age and given the health issues he typically has every year. He falls somewhere in that top 20-25 range, and I don't see anything happening this year that would change that conversation for me.

FlashBolt
10-17-2017, 08:40 PM
Slide LeBron to #2. Five rings+scoring record = surpasses MJ.

Wade, nothing changes. He most likely will ride out the ring as a role player and so, it's impossible to contribute the ring to his ranking.

JordansBulls
10-17-2017, 10:46 PM
Losing with HCA 3 years in a row hurts him. Also he has been down in a series at least 3-2 every year of his career including 5 years in a row with HCA.

LOb0
10-17-2017, 10:56 PM
Nothing changes for most people. A very small amount of people will move him to GOAT, but other than that, you pretty much already have him there, or you never will.

If Bron beat this GS team more than a few people would. That's a feat that would push Bron into maybe 50% arguing he's the goat.

Lakers + Giants
10-17-2017, 11:08 PM
Lebron becomes the GOAT if he beats the best team ever 2x.

Wade? His legacy won't budge.

JordansBulls
10-17-2017, 11:15 PM
Lebron becomes the GOAT if he beats the best team ever 2x.

Wade? His legacy won't budge.

Best team's ever don't go down 3-1 in series which is what happened to the 2016 Warriors. Not to mention people forget Lebron has been down 3-2 or worse every year of his career in the playoffs.

Jeffy25
10-17-2017, 11:32 PM
a) wont happen
b) wont happen
c) wont happen


if it did. i still say there are major questions over lebron throughout his carear needing to team up with studs, having wade walk on starter for him. I think obviously it helps his legacy. but i think you are really ahead of yourself thinking they will. anyone who watched the bulls know wade isnt special at all anymore. they are going to be asking a ton of Love and Rose this season. and i think that while healthy Thomas would end up making them better cause he is a better playmaker than irving. i think that Thomas may not ever look right and thats why he was traded.

FWIW I see the cavs crumbling at some point in this season. Rose goes down. your asking a 35 year old and a Kevin Love who is no longer really a star to carry a team through the season. Questions will arise when Lebron wont resign and they are struggling. IT comes back near the end of the season but doesnt look like his old self.

I honestly dont expect the cavs to win the east. much less win it all. I think the celtics will end up winning the regular season. also watch out for the Bucks.

Why does everyone blame James in legacy talks about teaming up when the rest of the league is doing it too?

FlashBolt
10-17-2017, 11:48 PM
Why does everyone blame James in legacy talks about teaming up when the rest of the league is doing it too?

They just don't like the guy. I mean, let's break it down to the top ten players. Has LeBron ever had a team better than the teammates that the guys had below?

Jordan's Bulls?
Larry's Celtics?
Shaq's Lakers?
Kobe's Lakers?
Duncan's Spurs?

I mean, outside of Wilt and Hakeem, who has LeBron had more help than? They have spent so much time hating the guy and don't realize that once he is gone, the NBA would have a huge black hole. LeBron has meant so much in the NBA.. he's literally the storyteller of the NBA. I believe LeBron will get more respect once he is gone and we are years removed from his retirement. Then people will realize just how great he was.

JordansBulls
10-17-2017, 11:50 PM
They just don't like the guy. I mean, let's break it down to the top ten players. Has LeBron ever had a team better than the teammates that the guys had below?

Jordan's Bulls?
Larry's Celtics?
Shaq's Lakers?
Kobe's Lakers?
Duncan's Spurs?

I mean, outside of Wilt and Hakeem, who has LeBron had more help than? They have spent so much time hating the guy and don't realize that once he is gone, the NBA would have a huge black hole. LeBron has meant so much in the NBA.. he's literally the storyteller of the NBA. I believe LeBron will get more respect once he is gone and we are years removed from his retirement. Then people will realize just how great he was.

Lebron has played with guys who won league and finals mvp. Jordan for instance never played with either. Lebron played with guys who won titles and finals mvp before he ever won either of them. Jordan for instance never played with anyone who won either.

JordansBulls
10-17-2017, 11:52 PM
Why does everyone blame James in legacy talks about teaming up when the rest of the league is doing it too?

Others are doing it now because Lebron is doing it.

FlashBolt
10-17-2017, 11:57 PM
Lebron has played with guys who won league and finals mvp. Jordan for instance never played with either. Lebron played with guys who won titles and finals mvp before he ever won either of them. Jordan for instance never played with anyone who won either.

What does that have to do with anything? If LeBron plays with a 40 year old Kobe Bryant, does that mean he played with a 5x NBA champion? No one really evaluates an NBA player like that. You live by reputation and that means zip when you're going up against a team like the Warriors. You make it seem Jordan beat overwhelming odds and the greatest NBA teams ever. If Jordan had to go up against a prime Boston, Lakers, and Pistons, we would be talking a different story. So you should thank the Lord that Jordan had avoided all of them and had to face Barkley and the great Dan Marj... give me a break. KD>Barkley, Curry>anybody collectively on the Suns.. must be fun beating down on that poor Suns team while LeBron has to play against this stacked Warriors squad but you refusing to give him credit. You are a lamer. It's okay - Jordan is still the GOAT. But you don't have to try and discredit LeBron because he is the closest to breaking that status.

JAZZNC
10-18-2017, 12:25 AM
Lebron has played with guys who won league and finals mvp. Jordan for instance never played with either. Lebron played with guys who won titles and finals mvp before he ever won either of them. Jordan for instance never played with anyone who won either.

You could make a very legitimate argument that prime Pippen is better than any player LeBron has ever played with (especially if you only look at the years they played together it's not really debatable). You're just being an ignorant troll just like you are every time you speak about LeBron. Sometimes I wonder if you and Bostonjorge are just dup accounts. It's pathetic. If Jordan's teammates were so bad why were they in the ECF after he retired? How's any team Lebrons been on looked after he left? You won't answer so I don't know why I'm even bothering.

JordansBulls
10-18-2017, 12:42 AM
What does that have to do with anything? If LeBron plays with a 40 year old Kobe Bryant, does that mean he played with a 5x NBA champion? No one really evaluates an NBA player like that. You live by reputation and that means zip when you're going up against a team like the Warriors. You make it seem Jordan beat overwhelming odds and the greatest NBA teams ever. If Jordan had to go up against a prime Boston, Lakers, and Pistons, we would be talking a different story. So you should thank the Lord that Jordan had avoided all of them and had to face Barkley and the great Dan Marj... give me a break. KD>Barkley, Curry>anybody collectively on the Suns.. must be fun beating down on that poor Suns team while LeBron has to play against this stacked Warriors squad but you refusing to give him credit. You are a lamer. It's okay - Jordan is still the GOAT. But you don't have to try and discredit LeBron because he is the closest to breaking that status.

What about being down 3-2 in series to teams that didn't win 50 games and going 7 against teams that didn't win 50 games even with HCA? Or being down to old *** teams like the Spurs whose best player was 37 years old?

JordansBulls
10-18-2017, 12:43 AM
You could make a very legitimate argument that prime Pippen is better than any player LeBron has ever played with (especially if you only look at the years they played together it's not really debatable). You're just being an ignorant troll just like you are every time you speak about LeBron. Sometimes I wonder if you and Bostonjorge are just dup accounts. It's pathetic. If Jordan's teammates were so bad why were they in the ECF after he retired? How's any team Lebrons been on looked after he left? You won't answer so I don't know why I'm even bothering.

No you can't, not even close. Pippen got to round 2 as the lead guy while Wade won a title as the lead guy and Shaq won 3 titles as such and Ben Wallace did as well.

TylerSL
10-18-2017, 01:58 AM
I'd say Lebron is top 5 player ever right now without playing another game. So if Lebron wins the title again this year, and assuming he'd win Finals MVP too, he'd probably pass Magic for #2 all time IMO, only behind Jordan.

If the Cavs win
Lebron-15 NBA seasons, 4 NBA Titles, 4 Finals MVP awards, 9 Finals appearances, 4 MVP awards
Magic-12 NBA seasons, 5 NBA Titles, 3 Finals MVP awards, 7 Finals appearances, 3 MVP awards

As for Wade, it would add to his great resume and I assume he'd be considered as he already is, a borderline top 20 player all time and one of the leagues great NBA champions. Wade has been a leader throughout his entire NBA career and while a 4th title wouldn't shoot up the rankings all that much, it would further distinguish him as one of the greatest players of his era. It wouldn't be out of the question to say he's on the Mount Rushmore of the 21st century NBA.

prodigy
10-18-2017, 09:40 AM
Nothing changes for most people. A very small amount of people will move him to GOAT, but other than that, you pretty much already have him there, or you never will.

this. I mean lebron is great at almost everything that involves basketball. Hes the Goat for me already. He could win 3 more rings and people still won't have him #1.

prodigy
10-18-2017, 09:43 AM
No you can't, not even close. Pippen got to round 2 as the lead guy while Wade won a title as the lead guy and Shaq won 3 titles as such and Ben Wallace did as well.

Shaq and Ben were done. You know that. Really bad examples you know better dude. Wade and pippen are close, Wade still had a pretty good Shaq though. Pippen also got screwed in that playoffs lol.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-18-2017, 12:04 PM
Lebron has played with guys who won league and finals mvp. Jordan for instance never played with either. Lebron played with guys who won titles and finals mvp before he ever won either of them. Jordan for instance never played with anyone who won either.


Didn't Rodman have a couple rings with the Spurs before being traded to Bulls for Will Purdue? Never mind I had to look it up. But he had two with Pistons and three with the Bulls.

FlashBolt
10-18-2017, 01:09 PM
What about being down 3-2 in series to teams that didn't win 50 games and going 7 against teams that didn't win 50 games even with HCA? Or being down to old *** teams like the Spurs whose best player was 37 years old?

Are you really saying the Spurs weren't a great team those past few years? You are just a hater, dude. Rodman already won rings before playing with Jordan so you can throw away your lame logic. It sucks to be you that your entire presence on this forum will always be known as the guy who hates LeBron because LeBron is the only guy capable of surpassing or getting close to Jordan. You're actually very good at other topics not involving LeBron but when it comes to LeBron, you couldn't be more terrible.

JAZZNC
10-18-2017, 01:42 PM
No you can't, not even close. Pippen got to round 2 as the lead guy while Wade won a title as the lead guy and Shaq won 3 titles as such and Ben Wallace did as well.

Prime Pippen is every bit as good as the D. Wade that LeBron played with. And seriously, with the Shaq and Ben Wallace bull **** dude? What a sad, pathetic life you have that you have to hate on a player to the point of making yourself look like a complete idiot. But whatever man, nothing will ever change your mind, Cleveland Shaq was just as good as 3peat Shaq obviously.

FlashBolt
10-18-2017, 02:06 PM
Prime Pippen is every bit as good as the D. Wade that LeBron played with. And seriously, with the Shaq and Ben Wallace bull **** dude? What a sad, pathetic life you have that you have to hate on a player to the point of making yourself look like a complete idiot. But whatever man, nothing will ever change your mind, Cleveland Shaq was just as good as 3peat Shaq obviously.

You know what's sad? By his own logic, Jordan was still at his peak with the Wizards. I wonder if he blames Jordan for being that bad at his prime.. he was a total joke of a player.