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View Full Version : Rest rule ... who does it apply to?



Scoots
10-13-2017, 10:40 AM
I know the NBA will get annoyed if "DNP Rest" happens with LeBron or Curry or starting players at that level. But what about non-starters?

Will Pop get a fine if Ginobli dresses but doesn't play in a game? What it he's inactive but there? What if he's not in the arena?

Will Kerr if Livingston doesn't play? Iguodala? West?

DNPCD because a coach doesn't like the matchup or because the player wasn't playing well or for disciplinary reasons? What if a player goes off on his coach in a practice ... do they have to disclose to the public that they had an argument with their star player?

The NBA fixed the schedule to fix Pop and Kerr's main issues with player rest ... does this rule really change anything?

likemystylez
10-13-2017, 11:07 AM
I know the NBA will get annoyed if "DNP Rest" happens with LeBron or Curry or starting players at that level. But what about non-starters?

Will Pop get a fine if Ginobli dresses but doesn't play in a game? What it he's inactive but there? What if he's not in the arena?

Will Kerr if Livingston doesn't play? Iguodala? West?

DNPCD because a coach doesn't like the matchup or because the player wasn't playing well or for disciplinary reasons? What if a player goes off on his coach in a practice ... do they have to disclose to the public that they had an argument with their star player?

The NBA fixed the schedule to fix Pop and Kerr's main issues with player rest ... does this rule really change anything?

If the number of player missed games doesnt go significantly down with the new schedule, it will be an indication that the reasons pop and kerr gave for sitting players last year were likely BS.

Also if player injuries dont go down significantly, then the notion of guys getting injured because of fatigue from such a condensed schedule with not be as cut and dry as a lot of people have made it out to be.


I am hoping for improvement, but my gut tells me that we wont see much change in either players resting or players getting significant injuries relative to the last 3 years or so.

warfelg
10-13-2017, 02:11 PM
If the number of player missed games doesnt go significantly down with the new schedule, it will be an indication that the reasons pop and kerr gave for sitting players last year were likely BS.

Also if player injuries dont go down significantly, then the notion of guys getting injured because of fatigue from such a condensed schedule with not be as cut and dry as a lot of people have made it out to be.


I am hoping for improvement, but my gut tells me that we wont see much change in either players resting or players getting significant injuries relative to the last 3 years or so.

Imo it’s not so much the significant injuries. It’s the nagging ones. Hopefully we should see less “hamstring soreness” or “knee soreness”. To me that’s the measuring stick of the rest rule/schedule working.

Scoots
10-13-2017, 02:27 PM
If the number of player missed games doesnt go significantly down with the new schedule, it will be an indication that the reasons pop and kerr gave for sitting players last year were likely BS.

Also if player injuries dont go down significantly, then the notion of guys getting injured because of fatigue from such a condensed schedule with not be as cut and dry as a lot of people have made it out to be.


I am hoping for improvement, but my gut tells me that we wont see much change in either players resting or players getting significant injuries relative to the last 3 years or so.

The reason for rest was largely 4 games in 5 nights and there are none of those on the schedule for the NBA this year. Retired NBA players call that 4th game a "scheduled loss", and as long as it was a scheduled loss Pop and other coaches just chose to give games off to fight the fatigue. That reason is gone this year.

It depends on what you call a significant drop in injuries.

Vee-Rex
10-13-2017, 05:26 PM
I feel like this forum will never agree on the rest rule. Scoots, you're just picking at an open wound.

This rule changes absolutely nothing. People don't give a **** if Jeremy Lamb or D.J. Augustin or Lance Thomas rest. This would have never ever been an issue. So, there's no principle component to this whatsoever. It's just done to appease whiny/butthurt fans when they don't get to see a superstar play, despite knowing IN FULL ADVANCE THAT IT'S NOT GUARANTEED. I mean come on, I point yet again to the Grizz/Cavs b2b last year when no one said a ****ing thing when Marc Gasol rested but raised a shitstorm when LeBron rested the next day.

And what's even worse is that these whiny fans become appeased even if they KNOW they're being lied to. That's the most pathetic thing about it too. Instead of a DNP, for someone of LeBron's caliber it'll say "sore hamstring" or whatever. There's a few injuries out there (I believe hamstring being one) where the doctors have no way of determining if it's truly injured or not. Those are the kind we'll see on those reports.

Again, the appeasement of the whiny fans reminds me of my ex who told me she'd rather I lied and said I loved her than tell the truth and say I didn't. There is nothing more pathetic than that.

Scoots
10-13-2017, 06:02 PM
I feel like this forum will never agree on the rest rule. Scoots, you're just picking at an open wound.

This rule changes absolutely nothing. People don't give a **** if Jeremy Lamb or D.J. Augustin or Lance Thomas rest. This would have never ever been an issue. So, there's no principle component to this whatsoever. It's just done to appease whiny/butthurt fans when they don't get to see a superstar play, despite knowing IN FULL ADVANCE THAT IT'S NOT GUARANTEED. I mean come on, I point yet again to the Grizz/Cavs b2b last year when no one said a ****ing thing when Marc Gasol rested but raised a shitstorm when LeBron rested the next day.

And what's even worse is that these whiny fans become appeased even if they KNOW they're being lied to. That's the most pathetic thing about it too. Instead of a DNP, for someone of LeBron's caliber it'll say "sore hamstring" or whatever. There's a few injuries out there (I believe hamstring being one) where the doctors have no way of determining if it's truly injured or not. Those are the kind we'll see on those reports.

Again, the appeasement of the whiny fans reminds me of my ex who told me she'd rather I lied and said I loved her than tell the truth and say I didn't. There is nothing more pathetic than that.

Hehe ... what happened was I was looking at the Warriors roster and I realized they have 15 guys they will want to get PT and they can't do that without leaving someone inactive. Iguodala is essentially the Warriors 5th starter as the 5th highest minute guy on the team. If they inactivate him is the league going to get upset?

As for your the public preferring the lie. That's always baffled me. In Formula 1 racing they had team orders for 50 years then suddenly some whiny fans complained and they made "team orders" illegal which had absolutely no effect on what teams did it just took it from a radio message to let your teammate by to a radio message of "Go to setting 7 on PCK" ... but the fans were happy for the lie. The same is true of most of what the TSA does at the airport ... it's mostly just PR.

Saddletramp
10-13-2017, 07:10 PM
Hehe ... what happened was I was looking at the Warriors roster and I realized they have 15 guys they will want to get PT and they can't do that without leaving someone inactive. Iguodala is essentially the Warriors 5th starter as the 5th highest minute guy on the team. If they inactivate him is the league going to get upset?

As for your the public preferring the lie. That's always baffled me. In Formula 1 racing they had team orders for 50 years then suddenly some whiny fans complained and they made "team orders" illegal which had absolutely no effect on what teams did it just took it from a radio message to let your teammate by to a radio message of "Go to setting 7 on PCK" ... but the fans were happy for the lie. The same is true of most of what the TSA does at the airport ... it's mostly just PR.

If Iguodala takes a game off, no big deal. If Curry takes a day off, no big deal. If Durant takes a game off, no big deal. If they all get the night off? It's a big deal. Resting a guy is ok but when teams took out their three or four top guys and chalked the game up to an L before tip off? That's what Silver wanted to eliminate.

likemystylez
10-13-2017, 09:21 PM
If Iguodala takes a game off, no big deal. If Curry takes a day off, no big deal. If Durant takes a game off, no big deal. If they all get the night off? It's a big deal. Resting a guy is ok but when teams took out their three or four top guys and chalked the game up to an L before tip off? That's what Silver wanted to eliminate.

Probably true with the warriors, but I think a lot of other teams sat one of their star players and figured they would lose anyways, so might as well sit the top 3 or 4 players. I think thats what the cavs thinking was- Otherwise it made no sense to sit kevin love, kyrie and lebron all on the same night and they did it like 3 or 4 times.

Scoots
10-13-2017, 10:25 PM
If Iguodala takes a game off, no big deal. If Curry takes a day off, no big deal. If Durant takes a game off, no big deal. If they all get the night off? It's a big deal. Resting a guy is ok but when teams took out their three or four top guys and chalked the game up to an L before tip off? That's what Silver wanted to eliminate.

What's annoying to me is that Curry missed 1 game to rest last year. 1 game and it was such a big deal in the media and here.

Saddletramp
10-14-2017, 03:38 AM
Probably true with the warriors, but I think a lot of other teams sat one of their star players and figured they would lose anyways, so might as well sit the top 3 or 4 players. I think thats what the cavs thinking was- Otherwise it made no sense to sit kevin love, kyrie and lebron all on the same night and they did it like 3 or 4 times.

True. The problem was multiple players on the ever hot Warriors on a nationally televised game . If it were a non-nationally televised game where Dragic and Whiteside sat out against the Magic then I doubt this woulda been a big deal.

Saddletramp
10-14-2017, 03:41 AM
What's annoying to me is that Curry missed 1 game to rest last year. 1 game and it was such a big deal in the media and here.

It's not about the number of games an individual player misses, it's about the amount of players missing the same game and if the game is a big deal like it was. If they all woulda missed a home game against the Suns on a non nationally televised game I doubt it would have been this big of a deal. If they would have sat KD twice a month on random games it might not have blown up the way that it did.

likemystylez
10-14-2017, 09:29 AM
It's not about the number of games an individual player misses, it's about the amount of players missing the same game and if the game is a big deal like it was. If they all woulda missed a home game against the Suns on a non nationally televised game I doubt it would have been this big of a deal. If they would have sat KD twice a month on random games it might not have blown up the way that it did.

I dont think KD sat out any games for rest though.... or was KD just an example?

ewing
10-14-2017, 06:18 PM
What's annoying to me is that Curry missed 1 game to rest last year. 1 game and it was such a big deal in the media and here.

what's annoying is fans of a team that averages well over 60 wins a season whining about how much they travel and how they need rest

likemystylez
10-14-2017, 07:52 PM
what's annoying is fans of a team that averages well over 60 wins a season whining about how much they travel and how they need rest

Amen, and im a dubs fan

Saddletramp
10-14-2017, 08:48 PM
I dont think KD sat out any games for rest though.... or was KD just an example?

Just an example.

Scoots
10-14-2017, 11:57 PM
what's annoying is fans of a team that averages well over 60 wins a season whining about how much they travel and how they need rest

Putz

aman_13
10-15-2017, 01:58 AM
I feel like this forum will never agree on the rest rule. Scoots, you're just picking at an open wound.

This rule changes absolutely nothing. People don't give a **** if Jeremy Lamb or D.J. Augustin or Lance Thomas rest. This would have never ever been an issue. So, there's no principle component to this whatsoever. It's just done to appease whiny/butthurt fans when they don't get to see a superstar play, despite knowing IN FULL ADVANCE THAT IT'S NOT GUARANTEED. I mean come on, I point yet again to the Grizz/Cavs b2b last year when no one said a ****ing thing when Marc Gasol rested but raised a shitstorm when LeBron rested the next day.

And what's even worse is that these whiny fans become appeased even if they KNOW they're being lied to. That's the most pathetic thing about it too. Instead of a DNP, for someone of LeBron's caliber it'll say "sore hamstring" or whatever. There's a few injuries out there (I believe hamstring being one) where the doctors have no way of determining if it's truly injured or not. Those are the kind we'll see on those reports.

Again, the appeasement of the whiny fans reminds me of my ex who told me she'd rather I lied and said I loved her than tell the truth and say I didn't. There is nothing more pathetic than that.

I don't know, I think the NBA would take notice if LeBron or another star player missed a game due to a sore hamstring and then plays 40 min the next night.

ewing
10-15-2017, 08:26 AM
Putz

Its hard when someone actually criticizes your superteam but after a championship and and full off season its time to let it go.

warfelg
10-15-2017, 09:32 AM
I don't know, I think the NBA would take notice if LeBron or another star player missed a game due to a sore hamstring and then plays 40 min the next night.

They also changed that part of the schedule. No team has a game before or after a national game, and at that they have minimized the travel to those games. Even if you are on the road you won’t have to go far.

Scoots
10-15-2017, 11:23 AM
its hard when someone actually criticizes your superteam but after a championship and and full off season its time to let it go.

lol

Seriously though, I don't really know what to do when my life long loser of a team suddenly not only starts winning but is so thoroughly dominant. But I know I can't talk trash because it won't last forever.

Scoots
10-15-2017, 11:44 AM
They also changed that part of the schedule. No team has a game before or after a national game, and at that they have minimized the travel to those games. Even if you are on the road you won’t have to go far.

Really? Do you have a link? That seems like it would be a scheduling nightmare to make sure no team has a national back to back, and minimal travel in all those cases. The Warriors have 14 back to backs and 31 national games ... that means that those 28 games of the back to backs all must not be national.

The Spurs still have their rodeo trip which is brutal but only 6 road games this year which is the same as 13 other teams. Only the Nuggets and Knicks have more with a 7 game road trip. The Wolves and Thunder have the shortest "long" road trip of just 3 games.

As for teams "needing rest" ... nearly 60% of the time a team with rest beats a team on a back to back and only 5 teams had a losing record with a rest advantage. Rest really matters. One the schedule front they've made progress there too reducing the number of teams on a back to back playing a team with rest from 384 in 2016 to 327 this year.

War, your Sixers have been a little screwed out of the gate starting the season with a LOT of road games and significantly most of the games against teams with winning records. If they make it through the first quarter of the season with a winning record they will be in good shape for a playoff run.

warfelg
10-15-2017, 11:59 AM
Really? Do you have a link? That seems like it would be a scheduling nightmare to make sure no team has a national back to back, and minimal travel in all those cases. The Warriors have 14 back to backs and 31 national games ... that means that those 28 games of the back to backs all must not be national.

I'll try to find it if I can, it was a segment on "The Jump" in the summer. I might be a little off in that if they do have a back-to-back national game it's the 1st of the two games.


The Spurs still have their rodeo trip which is brutal but only 6 road games this year which is the same as 13 other teams. Only the Nuggets and Knicks have more with a 7 game road trip. The Wolves and Thunder have the shortest "long" road trip of just 3 games.

That's the schedule. They did what they could to minimize the long road trips and make it so you didn't spend much more than 10-14 days on the road.


As for teams "needing rest" ... nearly 60% of the time a team with rest beats a team on a back to back and only 5 teams had a losing record with a rest advantage. Rest really matters. One the schedule front they've made progress there too reducing the number of teams on a back to back playing a team with rest from 384 in 2016 to 327 this year.

Again the schedule changes are helping. No more 4 in 5, I think no one has a 5 in 7 anymore. Back to backs have been really cut down. The point was to give more off days and hope teams manage those days better for player rest.


War, your Sixers have been a little screwed out of the gate starting the season with a LOT of road games and significantly most of the games against teams with winning records. If they make it through the first quarter of the season with a winning record they will be in good shape for a playoff run.

They did get screwed. I blame the NHL/NFL. They did their schedules before the NBA. So the NFL has the Eagles on the road a ton right now, already playing 4 of their 8 road games 6 weeks into the season. So the Eagles will be playing in Philly a ton in November/December. Given all the Philly teams play at the exact same spot, when 2 teams have a game on the same day (or even two consecutive days) at home it creates a logistical nightmare. And then the NHL has the Flyers opening with like 20 of their first 30 games at home. There's only like 7 dates outside of already scheduled Sixers home games that between that, concerts (the Sixers only lease space form Comcast for home games), and NCAA games the Center isn't being used.

Sixers badly need a stand alone basketball only arena, and there is talks of it happening right along the river, across from the training complex (which is in Camden NJ).

Scoots
10-15-2017, 02:03 PM
I'll try to find it if I can, it was a segment on "The Jump" in the summer. I might be a little off in that if they do have a back-to-back national game it's the 1st of the two games.

That's the schedule. They did what they could to minimize the long road trips and make it so you didn't spend much more than 10-14 days on the road.

Again the schedule changes are helping. No more 4 in 5, I think no one has a 5 in 7 anymore. Back to backs have been really cut down. The point was to give more off days and hope teams manage those days better for player rest.

They did get screwed. I blame the NHL/NFL. They did their schedules before the NBA. So the NFL has the Eagles on the road a ton right now, already playing 4 of their 8 road games 6 weeks into the season. So the Eagles will be playing in Philly a ton in November/December. Given all the Philly teams play at the exact same spot, when 2 teams have a game on the same day (or even two consecutive days) at home it creates a logistical nightmare. And then the NHL has the Flyers opening with like 20 of their first 30 games at home. There's only like 7 dates outside of already scheduled Sixers home games that between that, concerts (the Sixers only lease space form Comcast for home games), and NCAA games the Center isn't being used.

Sixers badly need a stand alone basketball only arena, and there is talks of it happening right along the river, across from the training complex (which is in Camden NJ).

It makes sense that they'd want the first game of a back to back to be the national game if that's the case.

When this rest rule came out I immediately said that the improvements to the schedule made the rest rule largely pointless.

The Warriors/Raiders/As share one complex for one more year with the Raiders and Warriors moving. I've been there on a day when there were 2 games. It IS a nightmare ... the Warriors made a big deal of their Saturday games with special uniforms and pushed the NBA to get them as many Saturdays as possible both to avoid the Raiders home games and, I think, because there are a lot of devout Christians on the team.

I talked to one of the people in the NFL scheduling office several years ago in the pre-season and the nightmare they had, I can't imagine setting the schedule for the NBA with all of the arenas being used so often for other events to work around, let alone planning the playoff games.

Scoots
10-17-2017, 09:45 AM
The league has told us ... if your star player needs a rest, just have a player start a scuffle late in a game and have your stars take a few steps onto the court during the scuffle and it's an automatic 1 game suspension. Thanks CJ!

AllBall
10-17-2017, 12:13 PM
lol, I wont be surprised if teams #6-30 won't see this rule enforced