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View Full Version : Who will be the first coach fired in over a year?



JasonJohnHorn
10-07-2017, 11:20 PM
Not a single coach was fired last season, after several years of coaches being fired left and right.

I don't expect that to last two years.

So who do you think is going to get it first?

My money's on Gentry, though if Philly is off to a rough start, I think the Sixers may finally pull the trigger on dumping Brett Brown. They've given him a pretty long rope. I think a historically bad 5-year run is enough to warrant a firing (though that first year was on Hinkie). No team has was fewer games in a five-year span. If they don't start winning now, I say it's time for a change, even if it isn't really the coaches fault.

goingfor28
10-07-2017, 11:47 PM
Doc

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mrblisterdundee
10-08-2017, 01:00 AM
Nate McMillan never seems long as a head coach.

kobe4thewinbang
10-08-2017, 02:03 AM
I'm curious if Malone lasts in Denver. With the rise of Jokic and acquisition of Milsap, they might want to revert back to their high-octane offense and less defensive focus. I don't know. If they struggle despite some peeps thinking they might crack top 5 in the western conference, it might happen. Ain't like Malone has done a terrific job. He did coach them to 7 more wins than the year before last, but hey, even the Lakers won 9 more games than the year before last. 73-91 is not very promising.

Maybe Stan Van Gundy gets the axe, too. I read an article this summer about how the team has given rather "meh" and so-so players most of the team's salary cap. That is not good. Other teams I think know they will be bad, and may just hold the fort because at least some coaches appear to be trying (Nets, Hawks, Mavericks, etc). I could see Vogel getting fired. Orlando is stuck in neutral it seems. They already got rid of the GM, I think. Vogel might be collateral damage.

Doc Rivers is another good choice. Maybe Coach Fizdale, even though the Grizzlies fans love him for him standing up for the team last season. But I dunno. Marc Gasol is unhappy and Conley is PAID the next few years, so they need to improve fast.

Surprising Dwayne Casey got a longer contract, too, considering the Raptors regression in the last two seasons. Clearly, D'Antoni and the big names are safe. But maybe Terry Stots gets the boot. He's relying on Evan Turner now to take ball-handling load off McCollum and Dame.

IndyRealist
10-08-2017, 08:17 AM
Not a single coach was fired last season, after several years of coaches being fired left and right.

I don't expect that to last two years.

So who do you think is going to get it first?

My money's on Gentry, though if Philly is off to a rough start, I think the Sixers may finally pull the trigger on dumping Brett Brown. They've given him a pretty long rope. I think a historically bad 5-year run is enough to warrant a firing (though that first year was on Hinkie). No team has was fewer games in a five-year span. If they don't start winning now, I say it's time for a change, even if it isn't really the coaches fault.

I would really hope Brown gets a chance to see what he can do with an actual team. He's in a position where everyone knows management sabotaged the team for draft position, so his record is irrelevant. I think he did about as well as he could with what he had.

warfelg
10-08-2017, 08:54 AM
I would really hope Brown gets a chance to see what he can do with an actual team. He's in a position where everyone knows management sabotaged the team for draft position, so his record is irrelevant. I think he did about as well as he could with what he had.

Yea I think he gets at least a year/year and a half from now.

Players all love him and talk glowingly of him. JJ and Amir both said to Philly media that he's a big part of why they are there. Players that were with us and are now elsewhere say similar things. He helped Embiid grow his game, developed Robert Covington to a near elite wing defender, grew Nik Stauskas some (yes he still stinks but not that bad). He's finally got some real NBA players to work with, and guys that are bench players don't need to be forced to start.

Heediot
10-08-2017, 10:02 AM
McMilan, Vogel and Caset

Heediot
10-08-2017, 10:04 AM
Yea I think he gets at least a year/year and a half from now.

Players all love him and talk glowingly of him. JJ and Amir both said to Philly media that he's a big part of why they are there. Players that were with us and are now elsewhere say similar things. He helped Embiid grow his game, developed Robert Covington to a near elite wing defender, grew Nik Stauskas some (yes he still stinks but not that bad). He's finally got some real NBA players to work with, and guys that are bench players don't need to be forced to start.

HCA and WCF should be reasonable goals to aim for.

As long as Brown makes the playoffs he is safe.

JasonJohnHorn
10-08-2017, 10:41 AM
I would really hope Brown gets a chance to see what he can do with an actual team. He's in a position where everyone knows management sabotaged the team for draft position, so his record is irrelevant. I think he did about as well as he could with what he had.

I hope so too... but at the same time... he hasn't really done much in the way of player development (not his fault; the team keeps moving his players), but that was really what he was brought in for.

It seems like had the 76ers been bringing in the young talent, keeping it, and letting him develop it over 2 or 3 years, then he'd be primed to go. But it's essentially an entirely new team every year.

I don't hold him accountable, but teams usually end up putting the coach on the chopping block, even when it's the front office's fault.

JasonJohnHorn
10-08-2017, 10:46 AM
Nate McMillan never seems long as a head coach.

Well.. he had a five-year tenure in Seattle, which he left when his contract was up because he was a highly prized coach at the time, and then had 7-seasons with Portland.

He's a solid coach. I don't think the Pacer expect much from this season, and they don't seem like a team that is interested in firing a coach just for the sake of making a change. I mean... lost their franchise player; they can't fairly expect to make the playoffs. So a lottery spot is the expectation. No point in firing a guy during a season when the fewer wins you get, the better the pick you get.

Heediot
10-08-2017, 10:49 AM
Gentry is actually the best choice JJH. I think the pelicans may not even be a top 10 team out west.

GS-SA-OKC-Hou-Min-Den-Por_Mem-LAC-Jazz could conceivably be better.

Gentry and Doc seem to have the most heat, it's playoff or bust for those two and one of those two teams could reasonably not be a top 10 team out west.

JasonJohnHorn
10-08-2017, 11:13 AM
I'm curious if Malone lasts in Denver. With the rise of Jokic and acquisition of Milsap, they might want to revert back to their high-octane offense and less defensive focus. I don't know. If they struggle despite some peeps thinking they might crack top 5 in the western conference, it might happen. Ain't like Malone has done a terrific job. He did coach them to 7 more wins than the year before last, but hey, even the Lakers won 9 more games than the year before last. 73-91 is not very promising.

I feel like the Nuggets will let him ride out the seasons. He's earned himself enough credit helping the team get back on their feet. And with the GSW winning with D and 3's, I don't see why they can't have a high octane offense and play D.



Maybe Stan Van Gundy gets the axe, too. I read an article this summer about how the team has given rather "meh" and so-so players most of the team's salary cap. That is not good. Other teams I think know they will be bad, and may just hold the fort because at least some coaches appear to be trying (Nets, Hawks, Mavericks, etc).

As a Detroit fan, I wasn't happy with the power they gave SVG, but the new ownership really put themselves behind him. They actually had a lower winning percentage with SVG his first year than with Cheeks the year before, who they fired mid-season. The new owners looked stupid firing Cheeks and then Dumars (despite his missteps, he was a loyal company man who often took the heat for Davidson's mistakes without complaint). I feel like SVG has a long leash. They might wait until the end of the year if they are going to finally bite the bullet on that.

I'd be happy if you were right about this. I think SVG is horrible with players. In the media, he seems to treat them as pieces, and he was quick to throw Dwight under the bus in Orlando (which he was right about, but that $#!t you are supposed to keep in house). It's part of the problem when you are essentially the GM and the coach. Coaches can typically put loyalty behind a player and keep him motivated even when they are on the trading block because they can always say "This is you and me; I've got no control over what the GM does and I'm advocating for you." SVG can't do that. "Hey coach... you believe in me. Right?" "No. Actually. If I get the right deal, I'll dump you in a second." It doesn't work. The players give up on you in situations like that.

Hope you're right.


I could see Vogel getting fired. Orlando is stuck in neutral it seems. They already got rid of the GM, I think. Vogel might be collateral damage.

I feel like enough people around the league respect Vogel, and he'll get a couple of years with this team before they consider firing him. He's only had a season, and though the team won fewer games than they had with Skiles, they also have a few guys who had been around for a while that were gone: Harris, Oladipa, Ibaka. Ilyasova. Some guys are not a big deal, but on a team that doesn't have a lot of depth, these kinds of changes can really mess with a rotation.

I think he gets the full year, barring entry into the cellar. He proved he was a great coach in Indy, and may even be able to help recruit PG at the end of the season.



Doc Rivers is another good choice. Maybe Coach Fizdale, even though the Grizzlies fans love him for him standing up for the team last season. But I dunno. Marc Gasol is unhappy and Conley is PAID the next few years, so they need to improve fast.

This one seems likely. I imagine he's going to get a shot to get this new roster to work, and Milos guy (30-year-old rookie?) looks like he's got some handles. May pan out. But yeah... I won't be surprised to see Doc gone if this team isn't over .500 throughout the season. And if they don't get 50 wins and lose in the first round, I don't expect him to be back next year.


Surprising Dwayne Casey got a longer contract, too, considering the Raptors regression in the last two seasons.

Yeah... I'm a Raptors fan too (Canadian near Detroit; hence the two team-love). The Raptors are in a tough spot. Do they keep a coach who is likely better than any coach they could get to come in and just fire him because the team isn't getting better? I mean... it's not really on Casey. He's pulled a George Karl every year and got this team to overachieve in the regular season (with the exception of a tough streak around January last year). There are better coaches, but none of them would come to Toronto.

The team won't be getting better though. They have peaked with this roster, and they aren't getting big name free agents or impressive trades to improve with what they got. Their only hope is that some team has a fire sale.


Clearly, D'Antoni and the big names are safe. But maybe Terry Stots gets the boot. He's relying on Evan Turner now to take ball-handling load off McCollum and Dame.

The Rockets and Blazer, I imagine, I quite happy with the direction their respective teams have been taking. Last year was a huge question mark for the Rockets after getting rid of Dwight. And the Blazers have been playing well. I think both those guys have a year to see what they can do.

However, I imagine CP3 might clash with 'Antoni due to the lack of defense in his system, and he may clash with Harden for the same reason. CP3 is a great leader, so he may be able to keep guys in check and force them to play D, but I feel like that situation is going to come to a head before December. Either another CP3 trade (which Houston can justify by saying the didn't know if he's stay), or a 'Antoni firing, which is less likely as CP3 may still just leave after a year.


The only guy whose job is safe is Pop (he'd only ever get fired if he had some reprehensible scandal). But guys like Thibs, 'Antoni and a few others certainly are safe bets for this season.

Scoots
10-08-2017, 11:30 AM
I would really hope Brown gets a chance to see what he can do with an actual team. He's in a position where everyone knows management sabotaged the team for draft position, so his record is irrelevant. I think he did about as well as he could with what he had.

This.

Doc and SVG should be on hotter seats since both were GM/Coaches and both have managed to make their teams slowly slide ... eventually you have to make a change. SVG has a problem in a Jackson/Drummond core that isn't working.

Gentry may get a little protection, like Brown, in not having a team to work with. Some elite talent, but a team not built in a sensible way.

I think Malone is safe for this year at least.

warfelg
10-08-2017, 12:03 PM
HCA and WCF should be reasonable goals to aim for.

As long as Brown makes the playoffs he is safe.

WTF are you talking about?

Heediot
10-08-2017, 12:11 PM
WTF are you talking about?

Teams always tend to have have goals that are beyond expectations yet not out of the realm of possibility. For the sixers, I personally think aiming for HCA in the first round and trying to make the ECF are solid aims. Maybe too far fetched? I don't think beating Boston/Toronto/Was is that crazy even for such a young team. If they don't nobody will really bat an eye, but if they do it's a worthy achievement.

As for Brown if he makes the playoffs he should be safe for his job? Or is the bar higher/lower?

Looking back at the post I made, maybe WCF thing when I meant ECF threw off the whole post.

Heediot
10-08-2017, 12:35 PM
This.

Doc and SVG should be on hotter seats since both were GM/Coaches and both have managed to make their teams slowly slide ... eventually you have to make a change. SVG has a problem in a Jackson/Drummond core that isn't working.

Gentry may get a little protection, like Brown, in not having a team to work with. Some elite talent, but a team not built in a sensible way.

I think Malone is safe for this year at least.

Gentry needs Holiday to perform better. If Gentry wants to run and gun, he needs the ball handler to have more control/usage and make things easier for everyone else. Davis isn't a guy that makes his teammates better as a playmaker, even though he is a very efficient and effective individual player. Cousins is a better play-makingbig and has better vision as a passer vs. Davis. But with both guys and their massive usage rates, there still isn't enough playmaking to make the system run as good as it can be. Throw in the lack of 3 point shooters and yeah the team is poorly constructed compared to the nice offenses he ran in GS/PHX/LAC. I don't think that's enough to save his arse though. I see him getting canned if they don't make the playoffs or is sub .500 before the deadline (he gets fired then).

Scoots
10-08-2017, 12:49 PM
Gentry needs Holiday to perform better. If Gentry wants to run and gun, he needs the ball handler to have more control/usage and make things easier for everyone else. Davis isn't a guy that makes his teammates better as a playmaker, even though he is a very efficient and effective individual player. Cousins is a better play-makingbig and has better vision as a passer vs. Davis. But with both guys and their massive usage rates, there still isn't enough playmaking to make the system run as good as it can be. Throw in the lack of 3 point shooters and yeah the team is poorly constructed compared to the nice offenses he ran in GS/PHX/LAC. I don't think that's enough to save his arse though. I see him getting canned if they don't make the playoffs or is sub .500 before the deadline (he gets fired then).

Yeah, when I was saying Gentry may be protected by not having much of a roster ... he's going to NEED Rondo to turn back the clock and Crawford to turn back the clock and Allen to turn back the clock. The best shooter on the team is probably Ian Clark and that in itself is telling about the team as a whole. It's just a mess of a roster.

warfelg
10-08-2017, 01:54 PM
Teams always tend to have have goals that are beyond expectations yet not out of the realm of possibility. For the sixers, I personally think aiming for HCA in the first round and trying to make the ECF are solid aims. Maybe too far fetched? I don't think beating Boston/Toronto/Was is that crazy even for such a young team. If they don't nobody will really bat an eye, but if they do it's a worthy achievement.

As for Brown if he makes the playoffs he should be safe for his job? Or is the bar higher/lower?

Looking back at the post I made, maybe WCF thing when I meant ECF threw off the whole post.

Way way way too far fetched. Making the playoffs is what we should consider a great year.

Heediot
10-08-2017, 02:17 PM
Way way way too far fetched. Making the playoffs is what we should consider a great year.

On talent alone, I have them as the 5th best team in the east. Still there is a lot of unknown variables and rawness and inexperience in the equation so I see where your coming from.

ewing
10-08-2017, 03:35 PM
Gentry though PSD will say Cousins is a top 10 player


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MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-08-2017, 04:07 PM
Jason Kidd please. But one of our 3 billionaire owners is close buddies with him. There was a report last season he was close to being fired. He didn't even do the post game interview like usual. Our GM took the interview. Was a weird night.

kobe4thewinbang
10-09-2017, 12:53 AM
I would really hope Brown gets a chance to see what he can do with an actual team. He's in a position where everyone knows management sabotaged the team for draft position, so his record is irrelevant. I think he did about as well as he could with what he had.Has he no pride? Question is did he really buy in or did he not want to lose the job if he said "hey, this is stupid and tarnishing my W/L record."

kobe4thewinbang
10-09-2017, 01:15 AM
I feel like the Nuggets will let him ride out the seasons. He's earned himself enough credit helping the team get back on their feet. And with the GSW winning with D and 3's, I don't see why they can't have a high octane offense and play D.Yeah, I like Malone too. Just wondering if maybe they'll try something new since if they look at the record, they may go "well..." but yeah, I'm a defense guy too. I hope they do well cuz Malone got a raw deal in Sac-Town and it'd be nice for him to do better now that their talent is more official than just a bunch of prospects.


As a Detroit fan, I wasn't happy with the power they gave SVG, but the new ownership really put themselves behind him. They actually had a lower winning percentage with SVG his first year than with Cheeks the year before, who they fired mid-season. The new owners looked stupid firing Cheeks and then Dumars (despite his missteps, he was a loyal company man who often took the heat for Davidson's mistakes without complaint). I feel like SVG has a long leash. They might wait until the end of the year if they are going to finally bite the bullet on that.

I'd be happy if you were right about this. I think SVG is horrible with players. In the media, he seems to treat them as pieces, and he was quick to throw Dwight under the bus in Orlando (which he was right about, but that $#!t you are supposed to keep in house). It's part of the problem when you are essentially the GM and the coach. Coaches can typically put loyalty behind a player and keep him motivated even when they are on the trading block because they can always say "This is you and me; I've got no control over what the GM does and I'm advocating for you." SVG can't do that. "Hey coach... you believe in me. Right?" "No. Actually. If I get the right deal, I'll dump you in a second." It doesn't work. The players give up on you in situations like that.

Hope you're right.Yeah, Pistons are definitely a sad case and most likely to make a change. I like SVG as a coach, but it just shows the toxic element of coach/GM experiments that arguably killed the Clippers chances with Rivers and also look at Phil Jackson, the winningest coach in NBA history, for how he did nothing to help the team get any value for its best player and constantly derided him in public. Just so strange, honestly.

I hope the Pistons turn it around as now is the time to move up in the east, but other than Drummond, who do they have with any extra-level talent? They want to trade Reggie, they let KCP go, Monroe go, etc, etc. Not much of a team vision going on it seems. Maybe that is SVG out of his depth, I can't say. But yeah it's bad.

I would offer that *maybe* Hornacek gets the boot too, but Dolan ain't known for helping the Knicks much. I think if they had a solid coach behind Porzingis they might actually improve in the next 20 years, lol. It's sad cuz the Knicks were on top of it all once. Their GM decisions over the last few years are just really confusing honestly. Steve Perry is there now, don't know much about him, but he may have been in Sac-Town when they dealt Cousins for zilch. Would make sense since they got almost zilch for Melo. Not sure how much culture change they can spark with a coach that has a 44% W/L record. Other than Porzingis, what do they have? They gave Hardaway Jr. the big bucks and made that weird draft choice BEFORE firing Jackson. I read that Kristaps feels like "the man" now but kind of hard to believe how sincere he is when Hardaway is eating a 3rd of their cap.


I feel like enough people around the league respect Vogel, and he'll get a couple of years with this team before they consider firing him. He's only had a season, and though the team won fewer games than they had with Skiles, they also have a few guys who had been around for a while that were gone: Harris, Oladipa, Ibaka. Ilyasova. Some guys are not a big deal, but on a team that doesn't have a lot of depth, these kinds of changes can really mess with a rotation.

I think he gets the full year, barring entry into the cellar. He proved he was a great coach in Indy, and may even be able to help recruit PG at the end of the season.Yes, still hate that Indy fired him. Probably Bird pulling that move, and now he's gone and so is Pacers relevancy if you ask me. A guy like Vogel should probably be on a team with a better front office. Magic didn't do much this summer, so not sure what the plan is.


This one seems likely. I imagine he's going to get a shot to get this new roster to work, and Milos guy (30-year-old rookie?) looks like he's got some handles. May pan out. But yeah... I won't be surprised to see Doc gone if this team isn't over .500 throughout the season. And if they don't get 50 wins and lose in the first round, I don't expect him to be back next year.They may fire him at the break, perhaps. Their roster isn't THAT bad, but that means more in the crazy western conference nowadays. I hope it pans out since they did get a lot for CP3. Not sure why Houston did that, but hey, it makes it easier. Don't think they should've paid Griffin, but oh well.


Yeah... I'm a Raptors fan too (Canadian near Detroit; hence the two team-love). The Raptors are in a tough spot. Do they keep a coach who is likely better than any coach they could get to come in and just fire him because the team isn't getting better? I mean... it's not really on Casey. He's pulled a George Karl every year and got this team to overachieve in the regular season (with the exception of a tough streak around January last year). There are better coaches, but none of them would come to Toronto.

The team won't be getting better though. They have peaked with this roster, and they aren't getting big name free agents or impressive trades to improve with what they got. Their only hope is that some team has a fire sale.Yep, they gotta trade Jonas and quick dicking around with it. Either use him or lose him. DeRozan has had flashes, but definitely not stepping up in a Kawhi-like way with the reigns given to him. He's got that brotherly love with Lowry, but it just isn't expected to really ever do much. They added more help and Cavaliers handled them even more easily, so something is definitely missing there. They're moving in the right direction I think by ditching Carroll. Just gotta keep in the mix, don't let themselves get lost. I strongly disagree with signing Lowry again, but guess losing him was beyond the pail.



The Rockets and Blazer, I imagine, I quite happy with the direction their respective teams have been taking. Last year was a huge question mark for the Rockets after getting rid of Dwight. And the Blazers have been playing well. I think both those guys have a year to see what they can do.

However, I imagine CP3 might clash with 'Antoni due to the lack of defense in his system, and he may clash with Harden for the same reason. CP3 is a great leader, so he may be able to keep guys in check and force them to play D, but I feel like that situation is going to come to a head before December. Either another CP3 trade (which Houston can justify by saying the didn't know if he's stay), or a 'Antoni firing, which is less likely as CP3 may still just leave after a year.Not a fan of 'Antoni obviously. And with Harden playing like he does, I'm not sure what D'Antoni actually is doing for them. I hope it works for them cuz they almost blew the Spurs off the court, but Harden needs to step up this year and not have another game like THAT LAST ONE. Not sure who the Rockets would go after if they got confirmation CP3 would stay. I mean, fluff is fluff. If you stop making 3PTers, you lose especially in this ball-sharing/3&D NBA nowadays. CP3>D'Antoni, no doubt, if it's up to me. Plus they lost Beverley's defense, so could get icky for them too. Anderson might feel pissed too since they begged the Knicks to take him. He and Eric Gordon were wild last season, so I'd be pissed if I was him.

Vinylman
10-09-2017, 07:00 AM
Gentry is kind of the obvious choice...

Some others would be

Hornacek
Stotts... especially if they are healthy and start slow

I would also say Hoiberg if the Bulls weren't so cheap

Jamiecballer
10-09-2017, 08:33 AM
Dwayne Casey. Team is publicly committed to changing to play a style that they don't have the personnel to support. Easy call here.

JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2017, 10:44 AM
Yeah, I like Malone too. Just wondering if maybe they'll try something new since if they look at the record, they may go "well..." but yeah, I'm a defense guy too. I hope they do well cuz Malone got a raw deal in Sac-Town and it'd be nice for him to do better now that their talent is more official than just a bunch of prospects.

Yeah, Pistons are definitely a sad case and most likely to make a change. I like SVG as a coach, but it just shows the toxic element of coach/GM experiments that arguably killed the Clippers chances with Rivers and also look at Phil Jackson, the winningest coach in NBA history, for how he did nothing to help the team get any value for its best player and constantly derided him in public. Just so strange, honestly.

I hope the Pistons turn it around as now is the time to move up in the east, but other than Drummond, who do they have with any extra-level talent? They want to trade Reggie, they let KCP go, Monroe go, etc, etc. Not much of a team vision going on it seems. Maybe that is SVG out of his depth, I can't say. But yeah it's bad.

I would offer that *maybe* Hornacek gets the boot too, but Dolan ain't known for helping the Knicks much. I think if they had a solid coach behind Porzingis they might actually improve in the next 20 years, lol. It's sad cuz the Knicks were on top of it all once. Their GM decisions over the last few years are just really confusing honestly. Steve Perry is there now, don't know much about him, but he may have been in Sac-Town when they dealt Cousins for zilch. Would make sense since they got almost zilch for Melo. Not sure how much culture change they can spark with a coach that has a 44% W/L record. Other than Porzingis, what do they have? They gave Hardaway Jr. the big bucks and made that weird draft choice BEFORE firing Jackson. I read that Kristaps feels like "the man" now but kind of hard to believe how sincere he is when Hardaway is eating a 3rd of their cap.

Yes, still hate that Indy fired him. Probably Bird pulling that move, and now he's gone and so is Pacers relevancy if you ask me. A guy like Vogel should probably be on a team with a better front office. Magic didn't do much this summer, so not sure what the plan is.

They may fire him at the break, perhaps. Their roster isn't THAT bad, but that means more in the crazy western conference nowadays. I hope it pans out since they did get a lot for CP3. Not sure why Houston did that, but hey, it makes it easier. Don't think they should've paid Griffin, but oh well.

Yep, they gotta trade Jonas and quick dicking around with it. Either use him or lose him. DeRozan has had flashes, but definitely not stepping up in a Kawhi-like way with the reigns given to him. He's got that brotherly love with Lowry, but it just isn't expected to really ever do much. They added more help and Cavaliers handled them even more easily, so something is definitely missing there. They're moving in the right direction I think by ditching Carroll. Just gotta keep in the mix, don't let themselves get lost. I strongly disagree with signing Lowry again, but guess losing him was beyond the pail.


Not a fan of 'Antoni obviously. And with Harden playing like he does, I'm not sure what D'Antoni actually is doing for them. I hope it works for them cuz they almost blew the Spurs off the court, but Harden needs to step up this year and not have another game like THAT LAST ONE. Not sure who the Rockets would go after if they got confirmation CP3 would stay. I mean, fluff is fluff. If you stop making 3PTers, you lose especially in this ball-sharing/3&D NBA nowadays. CP3>D'Antoni, no doubt, if it's up to me. Plus they lost Beverley's defense, so could get icky for them too. Anderson might feel pissed too since they begged the Knicks to take him. He and Eric Gordon were wild last season, so I'd be pissed if I was him.

Great post! Thanks for sharing your insights!

JasonJohnHorn
10-09-2017, 10:49 AM
Dwayne Casey. Team is publicly committed to changing to play a style that they don't have the personnel to support. Easy call here.

I feel like that shift is being pushed by the front office and not the coaching staff.

Either way... they either play the way they've been playing with the same roster and lose in the second round, or hope that seeding might get them to the conference finals (unlikely), or change it up and sink or swim (likely sink).

At this point, it's not on Casey. The GM, who has done about as well as he can do with Toronto being limited in terms of attracting free agents, hasn't given Casey the tools he needs to put a contender on the floor.

The thing is, everybody here is doing as well as can be expected. The players, the GM, the coach. DMDR isn't a 3pt shooter. He'd thrive int he 90's, but his style isn't as effective in today's NBA. But he does what he does very well. Same can be said of most other guys on this roster. They could each make important contributions to a title contender, but in their current situation, their respective skills don't collectively get them where they need to be.

Trades are all that's on the table, but there isn't a lot of guys with high trade value here. So....


Alas... ownership needs to 'shake things up' when teams stall, and so, even though Casey has led them to their winningest era, it's his head that'll likely be on the chopping block.

IndyRealist
10-09-2017, 03:16 PM
Has he no pride? Question is did he really buy in or did he not want to lose the job if he said "hey, this is stupid and tarnishing my W/L record."

He has no control over roster moves, or whether players are placed on the injured list. He took the players in front of him and got as much out as anybody could have. Not really sure what you're talking about.

warfelg
10-09-2017, 03:35 PM
He has no control over roster moves, or whether players are placed on the injured list. He took the players in front of him and got as much out as anybody could have. Not really sure what you're talking about.

Yup. Like I said early on. He gets 1.5 years starting how to show what he really is as a coach. But players, agents, and fans love him.

On "Bus the Process 2: **** Andrew Sharp" he paid for the first $2,000 worth of fan drinks at the bar reception before the game.

Cal827
10-09-2017, 03:55 PM
Dwayne Casey.... Please! They've been good the past four years in season, but he doesn't know how to properly coach this team.... I think Carroll was right about the issues with isolation, but that Lies on Casey to tell Derozan and Lowry to get the others involved in the offense. An example, Last year vs the Bucks. Game 6, Raptors were up 25, and blew the lead.... In the process of blowing the lead, Casey just kept letting Lowry run plays, despite that he kept turning over the ball (the bucks lanky bodies kept getting their hands on the ball haha). I think through that comeback, he turned over the ball 3 or 4 times, and had a few terrible shots as well.

That's just one example of his playoff failures. Don't have to go over the Washington Series, the Indiana series should not have gone 7 games (Despite George dominating), if there was a team oriented offense, instead of having Derozan take most of the shots against George's shutdown defense... The Bucks Series should not have been as close as it was, and I don't know how he exactly expected Norm Powell to defend Lebron 1 on 1 (A man who has at least 5 inches and 50 pounds on him, also is a freight train).

My hope is that the team realizes either early this year, or at the end.. that he isn't going to work and we get someone else who doesn't override the stars, while letting the younger guys get their time in.

KnickNyKnick
10-10-2017, 01:35 PM
Jeff Hornacek is gone, to make way for Mark Jackson

IndyRealist
10-10-2017, 01:43 PM
Jeff Hornacek is gone, to make way for Mark Jackson

Wait, is that news or conjecture?

Scoots
10-10-2017, 01:49 PM
Jeff Hornacek is gone, to make way for Mark Jackson

I haven't seen anything that makes me think Jackson has changed.

Vee-Rex
10-10-2017, 02:31 PM
Dwayne Casey.... Please! They've been good the past four years in season, but he doesn't know how to properly coach this team.... I think Carroll was right about the issues with isolation, but that Lies on Casey to tell Derozan and Lowry to get the others involved in the offense. An example, Last year vs the Bucks. Game 6, Raptors were up 25, and blew the lead.... In the process of blowing the lead, Casey just kept letting Lowry run plays, despite that he kept turning over the ball (the bucks lanky bodies kept getting their hands on the ball haha). I think through that comeback, he turned over the ball 3 or 4 times, and had a few terrible shots as well.

That's just one example of his playoff failures. Don't have to go over the Washington Series, the Indiana series should not have gone 7 games (Despite George dominating), if there was a team oriented offense, instead of having Derozan take most of the shots against George's shutdown defense... The Bucks Series should not have been as close as it was, and I don't know how he exactly expected Norm Powell to defend Lebron 1 on 1 (A man who has at least 5 inches and 50 pounds on him, also is a freight train).

My hope is that the team realizes either early this year, or at the end.. that he isn't going to work and we get someone else who doesn't override the stars, while letting the younger guys get their time in.

No worries, it's almost time for one of my annual "Should Casey be fired" threads. I won't let you down, bro!

And while I know most Raps fans love Masai, I'm starting to wonder about him too. If anything, he sure is too committed to Casey.

stephcurry182
10-10-2017, 04:43 PM
Gotta be Doc

R. Johnson#3
10-11-2017, 08:48 AM
No worries, it's almost time for one of my annual "Should Casey be fired" threads. I won't let you down, bro!

And while I know most Raps fans love Masai, I'm starting to wonder about him too. If anything, he sure is too committed to Casey.

He definitely is committed to DC and it's frustrating as hell. However if the Raps pre-season is a sign of things to come then yes, the offence has changed a whole lot.

Another big issue is DC's reluctance to play the young guys. He was kind of forced into it last year and now this year he doesn't really have a choice. He also needs to realize that Lowry can't log 37 minutes a game all year.

PayDaPiper
10-11-2017, 09:11 AM
Greg Popovich

Seizabmc
10-12-2017, 02:45 PM
Steve Kerr

JasonJohnHorn
10-12-2017, 10:43 PM
No worries, it's almost time for one of my annual "Should Casey be fired" threads. I won't let you down, bro!

And while I know most Raps fans love Masai, I'm starting to wonder about him too. If anything, he sure is too committed to Casey.

Masai has to build through the draft and trades, and overpay for mid-level free agents. That is the nature of the beast when you are the GM for a team like Toronto.

Casey doesn't have the personnel to contend. He's won as much as can fairly be expected.

The two have helped lead Toronto to its winningest 4 seasons, and the team improved every year under Casey until last season, which was still their second highest win total ever, and their first back-to-back 50-win season.

In the context of Toronto basketball, and the current prospects for the future, these guys have set a standard that will be hard to duplicate.

Is Casey had a SG that could shoot the 3-ball, the team would be better. If free agents flocked to Toronto like they did to LA, Florida, NY, and Chi-town... things would be easy.


What is important to recognize is Masai has his hands tied to an extent. A team like Toronto has to his a home run in the draft four or five years in a row and then not get any injuries to put a contender together, and outside of OKC and GSW, that kind of luck hasn't fallen on a team in decades.

Casey doesn't have championship players. Lowry is their best player, and he's not even top-five at his position in the league. I think the same can be said of DM;DR. In fact... if you pooled all the guard in the league together, the two of them likely wouldn't even crack the top ten. Meanwhile... you got teams like Houston (CP3 and Harden), Boston (Kyrie and Hayward), and GSW (Curry and Klay) who have two guys in the top ten each among the best guards in the league.

I mean... what is Casey supposed to do? He's averaging 50-win seasons over the last 4 years, which is more than most coaches in this league do.

They'll both be out of a job eventually because as well as they are doing, they likely aren't going to win it all in th next couple of years, and after the better part of a decade, the fans and ownership are going to expect more results than what they are giving.

But at the end of the day, there is nobody not named Pop or West that would have done better than what these guys have been doing.