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HandsOnTheWheel
10-03-2017, 06:52 PM
Take into account careers (Accolades/Rings/Awards/Accomplishments/Peak/Longevity) of each of the available players and take your pick

1.) Michael Jordan
2.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3.) Lebron James
4.) Wilt Chamberlain
5.) Tim Duncan
6.)

WaDe03
10-03-2017, 07:06 PM
Wades better than West and Baylor

dhopisthename
10-03-2017, 07:18 PM
Wades better than West and Baylor

baylor is debatable, but west is not even close.

WaDe03
10-03-2017, 07:48 PM
baylor is debatable, but west is not even close.

We'd have Wade top 10 all time at worst if he played in that era.

dhopisthename
10-03-2017, 09:05 PM
We'd have Wade top 10 all time at worst if he played in that era.

its possible, but its not the point of these games.

FlashBolt
10-03-2017, 09:08 PM
Kobe vs Shaq for me here. Going with Shaq.

WaDe03
10-03-2017, 09:13 PM
its possible, but its not the point of these games.

True.

mrblisterdundee
10-04-2017, 12:03 AM
Wades better than West and Baylor

That's difficult to tell without a three-point line and with the faster pace back then.
Wade probably would have had more possessions to accumulate stats in the 1970s, but he's awful from outside. My gut tells me West would have been a significantly better three-point shooter, and he faced some pretty good perimeter defenders in his day.

FlashBolt
10-04-2017, 01:18 AM
That's difficult to tell without a three-point line and with the faster pace back then.
Wade probably would have had more possessions to accumulate stats in the 1970s, but he's awful from outside. My gut tells me West would have been a significantly better three-point shooter, and he faced some pretty good perimeter defenders in his day.

None of which compares to the perimeter defenders of the modern era... Wade's playing on a much more competitive league. He was so good at getting to the rim so there wasn't emphasis on him being a shooter.

More-Than-Most
10-04-2017, 06:44 AM
Kobe vs Shaq for me here. Going with Shaq.

cant be serious with Kobe 6th... come on... 8-10 yes... there is no argument for him 6th sorry.

FlashBolt
10-04-2017, 11:21 AM
cant be serious with Kobe 6th... come on... 8-10 yes... there is no argument for him 6th sorry.

It comes down to Hakeem or Kobe at 6th and Kobe's longevity and accomplishments surpass Hakeem.

KnicksorBust
10-04-2017, 11:29 AM
5 NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
3 NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3 NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989, 1990)
12 NBA All-Star (1980, 19821992)
9 All-NBA First Team (19831991)

I'm sorry how is this not Magic Johnson?

Shaq less rings, less MVPs, less All-NBA 1st teams. Jumped team to team.

mightybosstone
10-04-2017, 11:38 AM
5 NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
3 NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3 NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989, 1990)
12 NBA All-Star (1980, 19821992)
9 All-NBA First Team (19831991)

I'm sorry how is this not Magic Johnson?

Shaq less rings, less MVPs, less All-NBA 1st teams. Jumped team to team.

Shaq's statistical dominance just absolutely crushes Magic, and their accolades are close enough for me that the extra MVPs or rings don't really make a huge difference.

(But I voted for Hakeem here... :hide:)

mrblisterdundee
10-04-2017, 11:45 AM
None of which compares to the perimeter defenders of the modern era... Wade's playing on a much more competitive league. He was so good at getting to the rim so there wasn't emphasis on him being a shooter.

I'm sure you have some unassailable logic and research behind the blanket statement about yesteryear's perimeter defenders versus today's, but I still think it could go either way with Wade and West. If he can be the player he was and hit threes at a decent clip, then West is more valuable.

KnicksorBust
10-04-2017, 11:51 AM
Shaq's statistical dominance just absolutely crushes Magic, and their accolades are close enough for me that the extra MVPs or rings don't really make a huge difference.

(But I voted for Hakeem here... :hide:)

9 Finals vs. 6 Finals?
9 straight seasons Top 3 in MVP Award Shares vs. 3 for Shaq?
3 MVPs vs 1 MVP?

That's big dude. Sure sign me up for Peak Shaq all day but Prime/Career I want Magic and isn't that what we are talking about?

valade16
10-04-2017, 11:51 AM
Let's not forget, West would be pretty good himself in todays game. His game was very much as a scoring PG/SG hybrid who could shoot from the outside which is the exact kind of player who excels in today's NBA.

His TS% likely goes up with the 3pt line and him and Wade are almost neck and neck efficiency wise there (55 to 55.9).

mightybosstone
10-04-2017, 12:04 PM
9 Finals vs. 6 Finals?
9 straight seasons Top 3 in MVP Award Shares vs. 3 for Shaq?
3 MVPs vs 1 MVP?

That's big dude. Sure sign me up for Peak Shaq all day but Prime/Career I want Magic and isn't that what we are talking about?

I would argue that Shaq peaked in a period where there was simply far more talent in the league. Aside from Bird and Moses, who else did Magic really have to contend with at his peak for MVP? Sure, you had guys like Jordan, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Malone and Barkley, but those guys didn't peak until the very end of Magic's peak. The dude had like a decade where he and Bird were unquestionably the two best players on the planet. Shaq had to deal with Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem, Robinson and Malone in his early career and Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, KG, Nash and Dirk in his later career. That's 10 arguably top 25 guys who all peaked during Shaq's career.

Chronz
10-04-2017, 12:05 PM
We'd have Wade top 10 all time at worst if he played in that era.

Nah, he'd never last past year 10

Chronz
10-04-2017, 12:07 PM
5 NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
3 NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3 NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989, 1990)
12 NBA All-Star (1980, 19821992)
9 All-NBA First Team (19831991)

I'm sorry how is this not Magic Johnson?

Shaq less rings, less MVPs, less All-NBA 1st teams. Jumped team to team.

I'd sacrifice durability if it led to a monster above him come playoffs

Chronz
10-04-2017, 12:12 PM
cant be serious with Kobe 6th... come on... 8-10 yes... there is no argument for him 6th sorry.

Why not? We just voted Duncan because of his longevity despite Shaq being better than him at their best. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Robert Parish makes the list... ok even you guys aren't that dumb

Chronz
10-04-2017, 12:13 PM
It comes down to Hakeem or Kobe at 6th and Kobe's longevity and accomplishments surpass Hakeem.

How?

Jetsguy
10-04-2017, 12:23 PM
Shaq should have been 5. going him again

FlashBolt
10-04-2017, 12:58 PM
Why not? We just voted Duncan because of his longevity despite Shaq being better than him at their best. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Robert Parish makes the list... ok even you guys aren't that dumb

Read the OP. Longevity is one reason.. Duncan has achieved more, period. We voted Duncan because he has achieved rings, a two decade career of dominance, constant winning and impact on team, defensive presence, 2x MVP.. It's close but most people give Duncan the edge. Why do you behave as if an opinion other than yours must be wrong? Lmao, you aren't the Basketball Wizard here so stick to KD hating.

mngopher35
10-04-2017, 04:11 PM
I feel like Duncan/Shaq are extremely close tbh. I don't think it is really that big of a deal at all to choose one over the other, I honestly still can't decide who I would take. I think the gravity of Shaq on offense and the way teams loaded up to stop him (including changing the rules) might give him a slight edge to me. I have stated I value offense more though and I think I could also be swayed here with a good argument.

To me Shaq is probably the last guy left with a top 5 peak.

ewing
10-05-2017, 06:43 AM
5 NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
3 NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3 NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989, 1990)
12 NBA All-Star (1980, 19821992)
9 All-NBA First Team (19831991)

I'm sorry how is this not Magic Johnson?

Shaq less rings, less MVPs, less All-NBA 1st teams. Jumped team to team.

That's what I thought

KnicksorBust
10-05-2017, 11:56 AM
I'd sacrifice durability if it led to a monster above him come playoffs

And I agree with this but when comparing careers...

Does Shaq's resume take any hit for all those regular seasons where we only got 80% of his greatness?

YAALREADYKNO
10-06-2017, 06:52 AM
Shaq

stephcurry182
10-06-2017, 11:14 AM
People don't understand how different the game is. Everyone is stronger, faster, and better than they were back in the day. You can't compare accolades and resumes the same way when you are simply talking about the best BASKETBALL players of all time. LeBron is on another level. And an argument could be made for KD as well.

Chronz
10-06-2017, 01:11 PM
Read the OP. Longevity is one reason.. Duncan has achieved more, period. We voted Duncan because he has achieved rings, a two decade career of dominance, constant winning and impact on team, defensive presence, 2x MVP.. It's close but most people give Duncan the edge. Why do you behave as if an opinion other than yours must be wrong? Lmao, you aren't the Basketball Wizard here so stick to KD hating.
I don't think most agree with you but feel free to think so, either way popularity doesn't mean much in such a debate. I don't behave that way, you're just that sensitive.

If I'm not a basketball wizard then why am I often told how I used to be one of the best here, have literally won awards for my debating tactics. Spare me your subjective opinion and focus on basketball rather than failing to make this personal.

Chronz
10-06-2017, 01:13 PM
And I agree with this but when comparing careers...

Does Shaq's resume take any hit for all those regular seasons where we only got 80% of his greatness?

I've laid out the challenge in the other thread that has yet to see a rebuttal but I'll get back to you when I borrow my ladies laptop

valade16
10-06-2017, 01:23 PM
^ Yet to see a rebuttal? You must have rebuttals on your ignore list then. I rebutted your argument and have yet to see a counter.

FlashBolt
10-06-2017, 01:25 PM
I don't think most agree with you but feel free to think so, either way popularity doesn't mean much in such a debate. I don't behave that way, you're just that sensitive.

If I'm not a basketball wizard then why am I often told how I used to be one of the best here, have literally won awards for my debating tactics. Spare me your subjective opinion and focus on basketball rather than failing to make this personal.

Lol, I can care less what you "won" from a forum that has like 20 active users. Most do agree with me seeing as how Tim won. Also, you keep talking about longevity when the OP clearly stated that it involves more than longevity and we obviously gave you reasons. You just ignore them. Your quality of posts, as much would agree, has gone down since you've been focused on attacking KD every post you offer. For example, you talked about H2H matchups with Shaq and Tim.. when Valade gave you evidence that it isn't even as outlandish as you proposed it was, you didn't even refute it. It's not on this thread but you probably just ignored it because you went to Google some more KD memes.

Chronz
10-06-2017, 07:48 PM
Lol, I can care less what you "won" from a forum that has like 20 active users. Most do agree with me seeing as how Tim won. Also, you keep talking about longevity when the OP clearly stated that it involves more than longevity and we obviously gave you reasons. You just ignore them. Your quality of posts, as much would agree, has gone down since you've been focused on attacking KD every post you offer. For example, you talked about H2H matchups with Shaq and Tim.. when Valade gave you evidence that it isn't even as outlandish as you proposed it was, you didn't even refute it. It's not on this thread but you probably just ignored it because you went to Google some more KD memes.
tee hee, you're taking **** too seriously and contiuously trying to offend me. The point I was making, is that even if it were a forum of 20 members, its that I've heard it all and I dont care what you think of my basketball wizardry. The quality of my posts have gone down because I used to have epic breakdowns the likes of which you would have found poetic, it was an impossible level of posthood to continue, I swear I had like a top-5 PSD single season peak. My PC was wrecked by porn so I haven't been able to respond as much as I like but its also a less enthralling form of entertainment.


^ Yet to see a rebuttal? You must have rebuttals on your ignore list then. I rebutted your argument and have yet to see a counter.

Poppycock, I censor nothing.

Its in the shaq vs duncan thread, Ill post it here in a min because it completely deals with your rough sketch of accomplishments vs differing comp

Chronz
10-06-2017, 07:55 PM
And I agree with this but when comparing careers...

Does Shaq's resume take any hit for all those regular seasons where we only got 80% of his greatness?

Think of it this way, if the regular season were of such importance would we really think of LeBron today as the games best player? With regards to Shaq, you could pencil him in for missed games and thats what hurts his regular season accolades, but if the cost of such a style of play meant a more unstopable player, then I'll gladly take 80% availability of a superior player. All-NBA/A-S appearances and MVP's are nice subjective awards but far from a determinant criteria in such a close debate, particularly since their primes/peaks only overlapped shortly, they faced different standards of competition.

ewing
10-07-2017, 07:22 AM
I don't think most agree with you but feel free to think so, either way popularity doesn't mean much in such a debate. I don't behave that way, you're just that sensitive.

If I'm not a basketball wizard then why am I often told how I used to be one of the best here, have literally won awards for my debating tactics. Spare me your subjective opinion and focus on basketball rather than failing to make this personal.

Can I see your awards?

Chronz
10-07-2017, 08:39 PM
Can I see your awards?

The site died but its where many of the greats got their start. Literal artistry took place there, twas a simpler, more innocent era

tredigs
10-08-2017, 12:08 PM
tee hee, you're taking **** too seriously and contiuously trying to offend me. The point I was making, is that even if it were a forum of 20 members, its that I've heard it all and I dont care what you think of my basketball wizardry. The quality of my posts have gone down because I used to have epic breakdowns the likes of which you would have found poetic, it was an impossible level of posthood to continue, I swear I had like a top-5 PSD single season peak. My PC was wrecked by porn so I haven't been able to respond as much as I like but its also a less enthralling form of entertainment.



Poppycock, I censor nothing.

Its in the shaq vs duncan thread, Ill post it here in a min because it completely deals with your rough sketch of accomplishments vs differing comp

Lol got to you too now ay? Funny how this place finds a way to ruin.

Vee-Rex
10-10-2017, 10:15 AM
Think of it this way, if the regular season were of such importance would we really think of LeBron today as the games best player? With regards to Shaq, you could pencil him in for missed games and thats what hurts his regular season accolades, but if the cost of such a style of play meant a more unstopable player, then I'll gladly take 80% availability of a superior player. All-NBA/A-S appearances and MVP's are nice subjective awards but far from a determinant criteria in such a close debate, particularly since their primes/peaks only overlapped shortly, they faced different standards of competition.

funny how the playoffs meant absolutely nothing in our Lowry vs. Irving debates

:laugh2:

Chronz
10-11-2017, 12:03 AM
funny how the playoffs meant absolutely nothing in our Lowry vs. Irving debates

:laugh2:

That's cuz kyrie has never been in a similar situation where he's the main guy ala Lowry and was similarly injury prone