PDA

View Full Version : Where do you rank Tracy McGrady's talent all-time?



mrblisterdundee
09-08-2017, 08:35 PM
With his induction to the Basketball Hall of Fame this Weekend, Tracy McGrady has come up a lot. Most seem to agree he was a massive talent limited by injuries, missing about one-fifth of possible regular season games. He was essentially done by 30.
Where would you rank him all-time based on talent alone? Maybe create an all-time list, and stop when you reach McGrady.

Edit: Everyone else in your all-time team should also be based entirely on talent. You're welcome Penny.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 09:20 PM
Lots of guys had talent. High level talent, too. Impossible to judge. Definitely one of the highest but who's to say he had more talent and based off what?

Chronz
09-08-2017, 09:28 PM
Ever seen a player tall as him with handles like that? Before the bad back he was the most aesthetically pleasing player I've ever witnessed. He rose from the penny hardaway model and birthed Kevin durant today

Jamiecballer
09-08-2017, 10:34 PM
Ever seen a player tall as him with handles like that? Before the bad back he was the most aesthetically pleasing player I've ever witnessed. He rose from the penny hardaway model and birthed Kevin durant todayYup. He was poetry in motion

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

JordansBulls
09-08-2017, 10:48 PM
How is in right now if he played in 2013?

tredigs
09-09-2017, 01:16 AM
Basically asking to rate peak 1 year players? Top 25-30 in that realm. His seemingly perpetually high state never matched his talent ceiling, that's for sure. I'm actually surprised he made the Hall Of Fame.

Bostonjorge
09-09-2017, 02:59 AM
The best version of Tmac we ever saw use to get busted up by Baron Davis in the playoffs. The season version of Tmac was scary good.

Vinsanity115
09-09-2017, 03:49 AM
Honestly, 1. I've always felt that Tmac was the most talented/skilled player to hit this league during his Orlando stint. In terms of talent alone, it doesn't get much better. Shame it was so short

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Chronz
09-09-2017, 04:25 PM
Honestly, 1. I've always felt that Tmac was the most talented/skilled player to hit this league during his Orlando stint. In terms of talent alone, it doesn't get much better. Shame it was so short

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yeah I used to argue with some of my friends over this. I actually think people expected too much from Vince because they put him in that mj class as an athlete but I always felt he lacked some in terms of lateral motion, tho obviously elite everywhere else.

Kobe said it best he had all the skills and was 6"9. Shame he had scoliosis, guess we have to include that huh.

I look at it like this, Phil used to say he thought that Pippen had more potential than mj, now I don't know if he said that to piss him off or what but I look at tmac vs pippen/mj and I see the best traits of both. He had the most absurd first step with such a low dribble stance(before his back broke) I shudder to think what he would have done to teams with the rules of today, no handcheck+improved spacing+soft shooting rules = dominance unseen since mj

Chronz
09-09-2017, 04:30 PM
The best version of Tmac we ever saw use to get busted up by Baron Davis in the playoffs. The season version of Tmac was scary good.

The best version of tmac I ever saw was in Houston when he was making Dirk his *****, by then he had began thinking the game out while still having some of his old talent, he just couldn't bring it every night during an 82 game schedule tho he did play a **** load of minutes even then. 0203 Tmac gets the best rs nod for sure and prolly the best campaign overall but I know tmac was superior mentally in 05

Vinsanity115
09-09-2017, 04:42 PM
The best version of tmac I ever saw was in Houston when he was making Dirk his *****, by then he had began thinking the game out while still having some of his old talent, he just couldn't bring it every night during an 82 game schedule tho he did play a **** load of minutes even then. 0203 Tmac gets the best rs nod for sure and prolly the best campaign overall but I know tmac was superior mentally in 05

First year Rockets TMAC and first year Nets Carter I think are some of the most underrated years of any player. Neither were AS flashy/athletic then, but were incredibly polished and mentally at their peak. Both of them were just insane playmakers at that time and weren't seen as good because the dunks slowed down.

I'll take 05 VC and 05 Tmac over anyone to get me a bucket.

Mr.B
09-09-2017, 04:42 PM
The best version of tmac I ever saw was in Houston when he was making Dirk his *****, by then he had began thinking the game out while still having some of his old talent, he just couldn't bring it every night during an 82 game schedule tho he did play a **** load of minutes even then. 0203 Tmac gets the best rs nod for sure and prolly the best campaign overall but I know tmac was superior mentally in 05

You mean the series where they choked away a 2-0 series lead to Dirk's Mavs?

Chronz
09-09-2017, 04:46 PM
Basically asking to rate peak 1 year players? Top 25-30 in that realm. His seemingly perpetually high state never matched his talent ceiling, that's for sure. I'm actually surprised he made the Hall Of Fame.

Disagree with you as usual, except for the hof bit. I did think he would eventually make it but so soon? I think people understate his longevity a bit tho

Chronz
09-09-2017, 04:50 PM
You mean the series where they choked away a 2-0 series lead to Dirk's Mavs?

I don't consider an injured team over achieving to be choking so not imo. And in that series I wouldn't have called them Dirks mavs either as the team won in spite of his diminished performance by comparison. What really won the series is how they turned Yao from a defensive juggernaut into a liability.

tredigs
09-10-2017, 10:39 AM
First year Rockets TMAC and first year Nets Carter I think are some of the most underrated years of any player. Neither were AS flashy/athletic then, but were incredibly polished and mentally at their peak. Both of them were just insane playmakers at that time and weren't seen as good because the dunks slowed down.

I'll take 05 VC and 05 Tmac over anyone to get me a bucket.

Lmfao! Over anyone? Tmac had a slash of 43/32/77 (hint: that is terrible) and while VC had more respectable efficiency neither were even top 5 in the league in scoring. Neither made it out of the 2nd round either (Healthy T-Mac and Yao going down in the 1st).

Edit: Just saw your screen name. Noted.

FlashBolt
09-10-2017, 11:42 AM
First year Rockets TMAC and first year Nets Carter I think are some of the most underrated years of any player. Neither were AS flashy/athletic then, but were incredibly polished and mentally at their peak. Both of them were just insane playmakers at that time and weren't seen as good because the dunks slowed down.

I'll take 05 VC and 05 Tmac over anyone to get me a bucket.

Like I said, you're just biased.

Chronz
09-10-2017, 03:08 PM
Like I said, you're just biased.
VC posted the most absurd stats once he joined the nets, it's an underrated stretch of hooping

JasonJohnHorn
09-10-2017, 11:23 PM
Most of us here got to see T-Mac in his prime and get a sense of how good he was.

With the stats being inflated as they are now (which is not to discredit Westy or Harden) and how they were inflated back in the day (looking at the Big O, and those huge scoring seasons from Wilt and Kareem among others), it's going to be hard for McGrady to be remembered as anything much more than his generation's George Gervin or Mitch Richmond to be honest. His stats won't be as impressive as some, and his lack of titles will fail to impress future generations.

In terms of athleticism and skill (which isn't the entire package), his is on parity terms with the best to ever play on the wing (MJ, Kobe).

Injuries and lack of team success will prevent him from being remembers as fondly as some. He likely won't be ranked in the top 50 by most once 2030 rolls around.

Chronz
09-11-2017, 09:05 AM
Most of us here got to see T-Mac in his prime and get a sense of how good he was.

With the stats being inflated as they are now (which is not to discredit Westy or Harden) and how they were inflated back in the day (looking at the Big O, and those huge scoring seasons from Wilt and Kareem among others), it's going to be hard for McGrady to be remembered as anything much more than his generation's George Gervin or Mitch Richmond to be honest. His stats won't be as impressive as some, and his lack of titles will fail to impress future generations.

In terms of athleticism and skill (which isn't the entire package), his is on parity terms with the best to ever play on the wing (MJ, Kobe).

Injuries and lack of team success will prevent him from being remembers as fondly as some. He likely won't be ranked in the top 50 by most once 2030 rolls around.

Kids will be kids but any aspiring statistician worth their salt would know how to account for league averages and if he's a student of the game would realize it was the most defensively dominant era in the games history, so much so that many stars today benefit from the rule changes made then.

tredigs
09-11-2017, 11:44 AM
Kids will be kids but any aspiring statistician worth their salt would know how to account for league averages and if he's a student of the game would realize it was the most defensively dominant era in the games history, so much so that many stars today benefit from the rule changes made then.

Your fanboy nature for T-Mac is pretty funny Chronz. He's your ride or die.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2017, 11:57 AM
as for how I could build a dream basketball player? T-Mac would have been one of the perfect models to put together. Penny reminded me of him a lot. Grant Hill, LeBron, guys like that.

Chronz
09-11-2017, 12:38 PM
Your fanboy nature for T-Mac is pretty funny Chronz. He's your ride or die.

Poppycock

tredigs
09-12-2017, 02:01 PM
as for how I could build a dream basketball player? T-Mac would have been one of the perfect models to put together. Penny reminded me of him a lot. Grant Hill, LeBron, guys like that.

He's among but not above the group talent wise/raw gift wise: Oscar, Wilt, Jordan, Durant, 'Bron, Shaq, Kobe, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dr. J, Magic, Kareem, etc etc etc. He was fantastic, but there's a really long list of supreme talents who T-Mac is not a step above even at his peak form.

Hawkeye15
09-12-2017, 02:33 PM
He's among but not above the group talent wise/raw gift wise: Oscar, Wilt, Jordan, Durant, 'Bron, Shaq, Kobe, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dr. J, Magic, Kareem, etc etc etc. He was fantastic, but there's a really long list of supreme talents who T-Mac is not a step above even at his peak form.

I don't disagree with that per say, I just mean, if you were to START with a guy, 6'8", lean but strong, great first step, explosive, great handles, etc. Those would be my attributes for a wing.

I would actually remove Kobe from that list you have. Tiny hands, and his height wasn't exceptional for his position.

Chronz
09-12-2017, 03:08 PM
He's among but not above the group talent wise/raw gift wise: Oscar, Wilt, Jordan, Durant, 'Bron, Shaq, Kobe, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dr. J, Magic, Kareem, etc etc etc. He was fantastic, but there's a really long list of supreme talents who T-Mac is not a step above even at his peak form.
Oscar had a big rump but aside from that, in what ways was he more talented? What did you make of Phil Jackson having Scottie Pippen higher on his list than mj in terms of potential? How are you defining talent exactly?

Chronz
09-12-2017, 03:13 PM
I don't disagree with that per say, I just mean, if you were to START with a guy, 6'8", lean but strong, great first step, explosive, great handles, etc. Those would be my attributes for a wing.

I would actually remove Kobe from that list you have. Tiny hands, and his height wasn't exceptional for his position. back when his body was breaking down, Tmac really lusted over brons body . That innate talent is above his own. I suppose the only downfall was his relative lack of dexterity, not quite as nimble for a wing but his talent and game contributed to greater durability

Hawkeye15
09-12-2017, 03:24 PM
back when his body was breaking down, Tmac really lusted over brons body . That innate talent is above his own. I suppose the only downfall was his relative lack of dexterity, not quite as nimble for a wing but his talent and game contributed to greater durability

LeBron's body is not only genetically engineered in a lab looking, but he is straight up lucky. Most guys his size, and muscle mass, WILL get over time injuries that linger for good. Maybe he does have them, but holds pain well, idk. LeBron is not only a freak of nature that takes care of himself, but he is also very, very lucky imo. I mean, I hurt my ankle for 2 years walking off a curb, and I weigh 170 lbs. He has never been hurt.

FlashBolt
09-12-2017, 04:34 PM
LeBron's body is not only genetically engineered in a lab looking, but he is straight up lucky. Most guys his size, and muscle mass, WILL get over time injuries that linger for good. Maybe he does have them, but holds pain well, idk. LeBron is not only a freak of nature that takes care of himself, but he is also very, very lucky imo. I mean, I hurt my ankle for 2 years walking off a curb, and I weigh 170 lbs. He has never been hurt.

The guy has bones of titanium. I can't understand it but the guy has screwed up on so many leaps and ends up on the floor on most games but yet, he gets back up and still runs through everyone like a tank. The guy is seriously the most gifted athlete we've ever seen. The mileage he has and the fact he's still able to do all of this while never missing games due to severe injuries is one of the best streaks in sports history. Think about how many guys you fear will get injured on a daily basis. Kawhi got injured, Curry is injury prone, KD got injured, Westbrook got injured, CP3 gets injured, Jimmy B gets injured, PG gets injured, AD gets injured.. but one guy, LeBron James, is never injured despite having the mileage that no other player in the league currently has at that age. It's astounding and a physical feat no one focuses on enough for the sole reason that it is expected for him not to get injured.. Karl Malone is probably the closest in terms of never getting injured and still playing at a high level but Karl Malone isn't attacking the basket, playing wing defense, creating the offense, and shedding the same responsibilities of LeBron. It's unreal.

mrblisterdundee
09-12-2017, 04:41 PM
The guy has bones of titanium. I can't understand it but the guy has screwed up on so many leaps and ends up on the floor on most games but yet, he gets back up and still runs through everyone like a tank. The guy is seriously the most gifted athlete we've ever seen. The mileage he has and the fact he's still able to do all of this while never missing games due to severe injuries is one of the best streaks in sports history. Think about how many guys you fear will get injured on a daily basis. Kawhi got injured, Curry is injury prone, KD got injured, Westbrook got injured, CP3 gets injured, Jimmy B gets injured, PG gets injured, AD gets injured.. but one guy, LeBron James, is never injured despite having the mileage that no other player in the league currently has at that age. It's astounding and a physical feat no one focuses on enough for the sole reason that it is expected for him not to get injured.. Karl Malone is probably the closest in terms of never getting injured and still playing at a high level but Karl Malone isn't attacking the basket, playing wing defense, creating the offense, and shedding the same responsibilities of LeBron. It's unreal.

Like I've said before: LeBron is the closest any athlete has come to physical perfection.

FlashBolt
09-12-2017, 04:44 PM
Like I've said before: LeBron is the closest any athlete has come to physical perfection.

Him or Wilt are two that automatically comes to mind. But in today's league in which athletes are mightily superior to that of the past, there's definitely an argument to be made that LeBron is playing in the greatest generation of athletes and is the leader of the pack.

tredigs
09-12-2017, 05:01 PM
Oscar had a big rump but aside from that, in what ways was he more talented? What did you make of Phil Jackson having Scottie Pippen higher on his list than mj in terms of potential? How are you defining talent exactly?

Phil also said Rodman was the best athlete he ever coached. Could be right, but Phil says a lot of things. My point is there is nothing exceptional TMac brought to the league over the host of other supreme talents. People saying he was specimen #1 is highly shortsighted imo.

Jamiecballer
09-12-2017, 06:19 PM
Nah Hawkeye is right, he's pretty much the perfect template for a basketball player. His injuries robbed fans of all time greatness.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
09-12-2017, 06:22 PM
Nah Hawkeye is right, he's pretty much the perfect template for a basketball player. His injuries robbed fans of all time greatness.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Same could be said for many players.. We oughtta stop throwing all-time greatness around as if the guy was legitimately close to it. He was a great player who had an underwhelming career due to injuries. It happens. Part of being an athlete is also being healthy.

nastynice
09-12-2017, 08:29 PM
*

nastynice
09-12-2017, 08:29 PM
*

Jamiecballer
09-13-2017, 06:55 PM
Same could be said for many players.. We oughtta stop throwing all-time greatness around as if the guy was legitimately close to it. He was a great player who had an underwhelming career due to injuries. It happens. Part of being an athlete is also being healthy.He was more than close, he just had to not fall off a cliff. Which of course he did due to injury. So agree to disagree. He was that good. If kobe can be in that discussion than so can tmac. The only thing he had on him was longevity.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

YAALREADYKNO
09-13-2017, 09:24 PM
He was more than close, he just had to not fall off a cliff. Which of course he did due to injury. So agree to disagree. He was that good. If kobe can be in that discussion than so can tmac. The only thing he had on him was longevity.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

👏

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 12:29 AM
He was more than close, he just had to not fall off a cliff. Which of course he did due to injury. So agree to disagree. He was that good. If kobe can be in that discussion than so can tmac. The only thing he had on him was longevity.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Being all-time great talent-wise does not make you an all-time great player, though. There's no point in equating the two. He had talent but part of his talent came at the cost of being unhealthy. It is what it is. Some players are injury prone and some aren't. It's inherent to these athletes. Kobe > TMac because Kobe was healthy. That's something we can't overlook these days. Health is VERY important. Perfect example is Embiid. When out there, he's an arguable top 15-20 player in terms of impact. But when he's not healthy, he's useless. All the talent but health prevents him from being of any use.

Hawkeye15
09-14-2017, 02:47 PM
The guy has bones of titanium. I can't understand it but the guy has screwed up on so many leaps and ends up on the floor on most games but yet, he gets back up and still runs through everyone like a tank. The guy is seriously the most gifted athlete we've ever seen. The mileage he has and the fact he's still able to do all of this while never missing games due to severe injuries is one of the best streaks in sports history. Think about how many guys you fear will get injured on a daily basis. Kawhi got injured, Curry is injury prone, KD got injured, Westbrook got injured, CP3 gets injured, Jimmy B gets injured, PG gets injured, AD gets injured.. but one guy, LeBron James, is never injured despite having the mileage that no other player in the league currently has at that age. It's astounding and a physical feat no one focuses on enough for the sole reason that it is expected for him not to get injured.. Karl Malone is probably the closest in terms of never getting injured and still playing at a high level but Karl Malone isn't attacking the basket, playing wing defense, creating the offense, and shedding the same responsibilities of LeBron. It's unreal.

he is a cyborg. If a genetics expert could make the perfect war machine, it would be his body/attributes. As mrblisterdundee said, he is as close to perfection as we have seen in an athlete. Wilt is the only guy on his conversation level.

valade16
09-14-2017, 02:52 PM
Being all-time great talent-wise does not make you an all-time great player, though. There's no point in equating the two. He had talent but part of his talent came at the cost of being unhealthy. It is what it is. Some players are injury prone and some aren't. It's inherent to these athletes. Kobe > TMac because Kobe was healthy. That's something we can't overlook these days. Health is VERY important. Perfect example is Embiid. When out there, he's an arguable top 15-20 player in terms of impact. But when he's not healthy, he's useless. All the talent but health prevents him from being of any use.

But then we have to determine what you are measuring. Career Kobe > T-Mac because as you said, he was healthier.

But what about them in a single game (or 7 game series) or 1 season while healthy, which would you pick? Because that is sort of the difference between greatest and best right?

Greatest is best career, best is best ability. I don't think anybody is arguing that T-Mac had as great a career as Kobe, but when we talk about at their peak abilities how well could they play basketball, I think they are arguing he was that good. And really, are they wrong?

If your only argument for why he isn't as good as other greats is "it wasn't sustainable due to injuries" you're arguing greatest, not best.

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 03:32 PM
But then we have to determine what you are measuring. Career Kobe > T-Mac because as you said, he was healthier.

But what about them in a single game (or 7 game series) or 1 season while healthy, which would you pick? Because that is sort of the difference between greatest and best right?

Greatest is best career, best is best ability. I don't think anybody is arguing that T-Mac had as great a career as Kobe, but when we talk about at their peak abilities how well could they play basketball, I think they are arguing he was that good. And really, are they wrong?

If your only argument for why he isn't as good as other greats is "it wasn't sustainable due to injuries" you're arguing greatest, not best.

This is the same as "who's the best scorer" type of verbiage that can be interpreted in numerous ways. Greatest and better, goes to Kobe. By virtue of being a much healthier player in his career. Now, did T-Mac have a few seasons in which he was better? Sure. But T-Mac also had seasons in which he was better than Jordan as well. I'd never take T-Mac over Jordan (outside of his Wizzy days). Sure, T-Mac at his peak was up there with some of the best. Too bad it wasn't sustainable.

valade16
09-14-2017, 04:12 PM
This is the same as "who's the best scorer" type of verbiage that can be interpreted in numerous ways. Greatest and better, goes to Kobe. By virtue of being a much healthier player in his career. Now, did T-Mac have a few seasons in which he was better? Sure. But T-Mac also had seasons in which he was better than Jordan as well. I'd never take T-Mac over Jordan (outside of his Wizzy days). Sure, T-Mac at his peak was up there with some of the best. Too bad it wasn't sustainable.

That is a bold statement.

I think you get my distinction but my question is, where is the line? For instance, is James Posey a better player than Brandon Roy because he played longer and was healthier?

I don't think you would find a person alive that for 1 game would take Posey over B-Roy. So obviously talent/ability and longevity are separate.

Hawkeye15
09-14-2017, 04:52 PM
T-Mac, at his best, was better than Kobe, at his best.

Kobe is a top 12 player ever. T-Mac isn't even top 50.

WaDe03
09-14-2017, 04:58 PM
No version of TMac is better than peak Kobe imo.

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 05:12 PM
That is a bold statement.

I think you get my distinction but my question is, where is the line? For instance, is James Posey a better player than Brandon Roy because he played longer and was healthier?

I don't think you would find a person alive that for 1 game would take Posey over B-Roy. So obviously talent/ability and longevity are separate.

The totality of it comes to mind, here. I'm not advocating longevity > talent. I'm advocating that T-Mac's injuries came with his abilities. It's time we appreciate that being healthy is something some players have an advantage of being.

valade16
09-14-2017, 05:31 PM
The totality of it comes to mind, here. I'm not advocating longevity > talent. I'm advocating that T-Mac's injuries came with his abilities. It's time we appreciate that being healthy is something some players have an advantage of being.

Absolutely. I guess I'm saying if I were a GM give me the healthy guy, but if I'm playing NBA 2K, give me the better guy since for my game his injuries won't matter lol

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 05:42 PM
T-Mac, at his best, was better than Kobe, at his best.

Kobe is a top 12 player ever. T-Mac isn't even top 50.

That's debatable.

Jamiecballer
09-14-2017, 05:48 PM
i'm not interested in attributing health as if it's a talent. i'm willing to bet tmacs build had a lot to do with him being unable to stay healthy and that's not something i hold against him. the difference between Kobe and T-mac for me is Shaquille Oneal and 3 or 4 healthy seasons. T-mac was better.

R. Johnson#3
09-14-2017, 07:08 PM
It'll probably go something like this.

"I grew up watching legends like Jordan, AI, Kobe and Lebron. I also saw some all time greats like Ewing, T-Mac, Wade and VC."

T-Mac was an absolutely great player but he's no legend.

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 07:18 PM
It'll probably go something like this.

"I grew up watching legends like Jordan, AI, Kobe and Lebron. I also saw some all time greats like Ewing, T-Mac, Wade and VC."

T-Mac was an absolutely great player but he's no legend.

AI is not in that tier. He's on that T-Mac tier.

R. Johnson#3
09-14-2017, 08:17 PM
AI is not in that tier. He's on that T-Mac tier.

Watch the film, not the numbers. AI is legendary.

Jamiecballer
09-14-2017, 08:35 PM
Screw that. AI is on a tier below

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Jamiecballer
09-14-2017, 08:39 PM
Jordan, Lebron, T-mac, Kobe


Carter

Iverson
Brian Scalabrine

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

WaDe03
09-14-2017, 09:27 PM
Watch the film, not the numbers. AI is legendary.

Wade is so much better than AI. He was neck and neck with Kobe and LeBron majority of his prime.

WaDe03
09-14-2017, 09:28 PM
AI is so overrated lol, TMac is being overrated here too.

FlashBolt
09-15-2017, 01:56 AM
Watch the film, not the numbers. AI is legendary.

He was legendary for the culture. basketball wise, he's not in that tier.. no one would ever put AI in the same breath as Jordan..

Jeffy25
09-21-2017, 02:15 AM
I thought McGrady was one of the nicer players to watch.

But I don't think even peak wise, he is a top 30 player.

Look at his 7 year peak from 00-01 -- 06-07

That's a nice 7 year stretch, but statistically, he falls short of a ton of players.

He could do as much in an individual game as Jordan. But the health and consistency was never there to do what others could do. It's why the numbers fall short of guys like Kobe, Jordan, and plenty of others.

But boy was he fun to watch.

Jeffy25
09-21-2017, 02:32 AM
Watch the film, not the numbers. AI is legendary.

Film wise either, he was not legendary.

He was a chucker who was all about himself.


I have no idea why anyone glorifies him. He is the worst type of basketball player that can exist. I don't care what sort of talent he produced from his small frame, he was an inefficient ball chucker who only cared about himself.

I'll take the Duncan's, Dirk's, Magic's, even Mutumbo's of the world over AI all day. You can't win with a player like that unless every thing just gets crazy lucky once.

Jeffy25
09-21-2017, 02:33 AM
T-Mac, at his best, was better than Kobe, at his best.

Kobe is a top 12 player ever. T-Mac isn't even top 50.

I think he was more fluid than Kobe, but Kobe was more consistent, reliable, obviously way more durable, and even during individual seasons, more steady.

I feel like Kobe had several seasons better than T-Mac's best. And this is coming from a known Kobe hater.