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View Full Version : Would GSW be favs to repeat without KD?



JasonJohnHorn
09-07-2017, 03:13 PM
Assuming that KD tragically had a season ending injury or that he decided to play for a non-contender or moved out to Europe or China for a year, and the Warriors were without the Finals MVP, would you think the Warriors would still be the favorite to win next season?

hugepatsfan
09-07-2017, 03:21 PM
No but if they traded him for Harrison Barnes back they would be.

mngopher35
09-07-2017, 03:44 PM
I think they would be favorites still but just barely. It's still the best trio in the league imo with Curry/Green/Klay. It would be amazing to watch some of these other teams battle with that group though.

Hawkeye15
09-07-2017, 04:10 PM
They would be favorites, but the spread would be very much closer to equal with the Cavs/Spurs. But yes, they would be favored. The difference? There would be a reason for the other 29 teams to show up and play, instead of just wasting 9 months of our lives like we are now.

FlashBolt
09-07-2017, 04:15 PM
You'd have to figure out which star they are signing with that extra money. It's not as simple as KD out and that salary cap is used on nothing. I'd give the edge to the Warriors just because even last year's NBA Finals, it took a miracle and unbelievable performances from Kyrie+Bron whereas it felt the Warriors just underplayed majorly.

nastynice
09-07-2017, 09:14 PM
I think they'd be about equal with Spurs, cavs with kyrie, and maybe Houston and okc now.

Possible favorites, I dunno, but basically in that mix right there

basch152
09-07-2017, 09:45 PM
Yes. Easily.

It took a fluke for Cleveland to win and that was while curry was injured.

WaDe03
09-07-2017, 09:47 PM
Curry wasn't injured he just underperformed again.

Allphakenny1
09-07-2017, 11:15 PM
Curry wasn't injured he just underperformed again.

He has only under performed once when He was obviously injured. Otherwise he has been a great playoff/finals performer.

Allphakenny1
09-07-2017, 11:17 PM
I would say the Warriors would not be favored because the loss of Durant would be considered catastrophic, even though they would still have as good a chance as any team.

WaDe03
09-07-2017, 11:24 PM
He has only under performed once when He was obviously injured. Otherwise he has been a great playoff/finals performer.

He let a role player win finals MVP over him and he was doing 360 alley oop dunks in warm ups in the playoffs in 2016, sorry but he wasn't that injured if he's doing that when he can barely dunk in game.

Allphakenny1
09-07-2017, 11:42 PM
He let a role player win finals MVP over him and he was doing 360 alley oop dunks in warm ups in the playoffs in 2016, sorry but he wasn't that injured if he's doing that when he can barely dunk in game.

Both horrible points that have been explained to you many times so either you literally cannot comprehend the logic, or you are just trolling.

1. Curry absolutely outplayed Iggy and was the main reason the Warriors won, but Iggy must have been a better story line. You cannot honestly say Iggy outplayed Curry.

2. Curry's injury affects lateral movement, not leaping ability. Bringing up the dunk in warm-ups is meaningless. Watching the game it is clear to see that Curry could not move (taking players off the dribble and defensively) as well as he had all season. The only logical conclusion was his injury (which we know for a fact he had) did affect his play.

WaDe03
09-07-2017, 11:47 PM
Both horrible points that have been explained to you many times so either you literally cannot comprehend the logic, or you are just trolling.

1. Curry absolutely outplayed Iggy and was the main reason the Warriors won, but Iggy must have been a better story line. You cannot honestly say Iggy outplayed Curry.

2. Curry's injury affects lateral movement, not leaping ability. Bringing up the dunk in warm-ups is meaningless. Watching the game it is clear to see that Curry could not move (taking players off the dribble and defensively) as well as he had all season. The only logical conclusion was his injury (which we know for a fact he had) did affect his play.

1. They don't hand out storyline awards.

2. If you've ever been injured you would know a leg injury is going to effect all of your movement but let's keep making as many excuses for him as we can. Did he throw that behind the back pass out of bounds in the clutch of game 7 because of injury?

Scoots
09-08-2017, 12:06 AM
You'd have to figure out which star they are signing with that extra money. It's not as simple as KD out and that salary cap is used on nothing. I'd give the edge to the Warriors just because even last year's NBA Finals, it took a miracle and unbelievable performances from Kyrie+Bron whereas it felt the Warriors just underplayed majorly.

If he was injured or just ran away like in the OP then they wouldn't have any cap money to spend.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 12:13 AM
Both horrible points that have been explained to you many times so either you literally cannot comprehend the logic, or you are just trolling.

1. Curry absolutely outplayed Iggy and was the main reason the Warriors won, but Iggy must have been a better story line. You cannot honestly say Iggy outplayed Curry.

2. Curry's injury affects lateral movement, not leaping ability. Bringing up the dunk in warm-ups is meaningless. Watching the game it is clear to see that Curry could not move (taking players off the dribble and defensively) as well as he had all season. The only logical conclusion was his injury (which we know for a fact he had) did affect his play.

Those are quite some convenient excuses for the 2x MVP and unanimous for one of them. Iggy won the Finals MVP because he showed up to the games playing much better than he usually plays, made the tougher shots, and defended the best player in the game. Curry had to defend... Dellavedova? And he couldn't take his game to the next level? Fast forward to next year, Curry is "injured." I saw it. He was injured. But he was also missing wide open threes that he should have made. He chucked shot after shot when he should have slowed it down. Watch game 7 again, particularly the fourth quarter. Please don't tell me Curry didn't play like an absolute depressed player. He missed wide open threes, made behind the back passes to courtside fans, and could not get his teammates involved. But then again, name me a player who has been celebrated like Curry had those two seasons but never received close to the amount of backlash when they lose. If LeBron lost Finals MVP to Iggy and they were on the same team, you and I both know what the narrative will be.

Allphakenny1
09-08-2017, 12:28 AM
1. They don't hand out storyline awards.

2. If you've ever been injured you would know a leg injury is going to effect all of your movement but let's keep making as many excuses for him as we can. Did he throw that behind the back pass out of bounds in the clutch of game 7 because of injury?

1. They absolutely do, they do it all the time.

2. You are deflecting here. You said he was not injured, now you bring up the pass that had nothing to do with his legs. Of course he made mistakes, I never said he did not, but denying the injury is where you are flat out wrong.

ewing
09-08-2017, 12:38 AM
maybe but I'd take the field

Allphakenny1
09-08-2017, 12:39 AM
Those are quite some convenient excuses for the 2x MVP and unanimous for one of them. Iggy won the Finals MVP because he showed up to the games playing much better than he usually plays, made the tougher shots, and defended the best player in the game. Curry had to defend... Dellavedova? And he couldn't take his game to the next level? Fast forward to next year, Curry is "injured." I saw it. He was injured. But he was also missing wide open threes that he should have made. He chucked shot after shot when he should have slowed it down. Watch game 7 again, particularly the fourth quarter. Please don't tell me Curry didn't play like an absolute depressed player. He missed wide open threes, made behind the back passes to courtside fans, and could not get his teammates involved. But then again, name me a player who has been celebrated like Curry had those two seasons but never received close to the amount of backlash when they lose. If LeBron lost Finals MVP to Iggy and they were on the same team, you and I both know what the narrative will be.

Here is the problem I have with you Flashbolt, you constantly contradict yourself. You made every excuse in the other thread as to why LeBron had a better season/finals than Durant. Than say people cannot use excuses for Curry. I never said Curry did not miss shots he should have hit or made a bad pass, you must just be assuming that. The point is he stopped driving to the hoop where he was elite all season and his defense completely fell off a cliff. Extremely logical to point to his injury. If you want me to name a player who get less backlash in finals losses I would say LeBron. Also, if LeBron played the way Curry did and Iggy did what he did, LeBron would have won FMVP anyway. 1-Because he would have deserved to win like Curry deserved to win. 2-Because his name is LeBron.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 01:16 AM
Here is the problem I have with you Flashbolt, you constantly contradict yourself. You made every excuse in the other thread as to why LeBron had a better season/finals than Durant. Than say people cannot use excuses for Curry. I never said Curry did not miss shots he should have hit or made a bad pass, you must just be assuming that. The point is he stopped driving to the hoop where he was elite all season and his defense completely fell off a cliff. Extremely logical to point to his injury. If you want me to name a player who get less backlash in finals losses I would say LeBron. Also, if LeBron played the way Curry did and Iggy did what he did, LeBron would have won FMVP anyway. 1-Because he would have deserved to win like Curry deserved to win. 2-Because his name is LeBron.

The only "excuse" (which isn't even an excuse considering it's an overwhelming fact) is that LeBron was perceived to be outplayed because of the stacked roster of the Warriors. Which other excuse did I make? Go find it since you're damn convinced I am making them. In regards to Curry's injuries, it's overrated. The guy was injured but none of you said a damn thing when you were up 3-1. All of a sudden, the narrative and excuses come out after Warriors lose? You're telling me Curry's missed open shots were the result of him being injured despite the fact that the guy played 40+ minutes in the series? Stop. He was injured but he also played extremely poor. That's the fact. When we were up 3-1 vs the Warriors, Curry's injury wasn't stated. But since it's vs LeBron, yeah, he was injured. Three straight Finals in which Curry was not Finals MVP or played like a top two player in the series but yeah, "injuries."

Allphakenny1
09-08-2017, 01:33 AM
The only "excuse" (which isn't even an excuse considering it's an overwhelming fact) is that LeBron was perceived to be outplayed because of the stacked roster of the Warriors. Which other excuse did I make? Go find it since you're damn convinced I am making them. In regards to Curry's injuries, it's overrated. The guy was injured but none of you said a damn thing when you were up 3-1. All of a sudden, the narrative and excuses come out after Warriors lose? You're telling me Curry's missed open shots were the result of him being injured despite the fact that the guy played 40+ minutes in the series? Stop. He was injured but he also played extremely poor. That's the fact. When we were up 3-1 vs the Warriors, Curry's injury wasn't stated. But since it's vs LeBron, yeah, he was injured. Three straight Finals in which Curry was not Finals MVP or played like a top two player in the series but yeah, "injuries."

Come on dude, you cannot be this dense. First of all, you just admitted to making the excuse of the Warriors having a stacked roster so even though LeBron was outplayed it does not count. That is the exact excuse I was talking about so I do not need to go find it.

Curry was injured the entire playoffs (this is also a fact that you admit to). Even when he helped lead the come back over the Thunder. He just played amazing basketball with an injury. There was no point to bring up the injury then as the Warriors won. I also stated that Curry did not play great regardless of the injury so why keep bringing it up like you are making a point here. We are actually agreeing on that point.

You are flat out wrong that Curry did not play like a top two player in his first finals. He did, he outplayed all but LeBron. Just because Iggy won FMVP does not mean he was the best player. Curry had one bad finals out of three (which you admitted he was injured), so why should we assume the injury had absolutely nothing to do with it. That just seems illogical to come to that assumption.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 01:47 AM
Come on dude, you cannot be this dense. First of all, you just admitted to making the excuse of the Warriors having a stacked roster so even though LeBron was outplayed it does not count. That is the exact excuse I was talking about so I do not need to go find it.

Curry was injured the entire playoffs (this is also a fact that you admit to). Even when he helped lead the come back over the Thunder. He just played amazing basketball with an injury. There was no point to bring up the injury then as the Warriors won. I also stated that Curry did not play great regardless of the injury so why keep bringing it up like you are making a point here. We are actually agreeing on that point.

You are flat out wrong that Curry did not play like a top two player in his first finals. He did, he outplayed all but LeBron. Just because Iggy won FMVP does not mean he was the best player. Curry had one bad finals out of three (which you admitted he was injured), so why should we assume the injury had absolutely nothing to do with it. That just seems illogical to come to that assumption.

That wasn't an excuse. It was a logical reasoning an argument as to why LeBron didn't get outplayed. You act as if any opposing argument to that of yours is an excuse when it's far from it.

I said he was injured. Injured is not disabled. Curry played bad and made terrible decisions. Many of the shots he took in the fourth Q were not due to his injury. His injury prevented him from scoring against Kevin Love - which I did not mention because that was valid. How about the wide open threes? Again, watch game seven again. Curry shot 4-14 from three, 34% from the field, and for the series, had more turnovers than assists. How injured was the guy, truly? He missed two games. You can make an argument that they didn't even need him against Portland but he played. He wasn't dealing with a torn ACL. Stop the excuses.

Actually, come to think of it, the fact Curry didn't even dominate that first NBA Finals spoke volume of his ability to show up in the Finals. Against Matthew Delly and he couldn't muster up a dominating enough series to win the Finals MVP? I mean, Iggy had the tougher defensive workload by far. If Iggy isn't in that series, do you think Warriors win? I know Warriors don't win without Curry, either, but Iggy was THAT big of a deal for the Warriors. You could definitely make a case that Iggy was a better performer than Curry than Finals. What Iggy was able to do defensively was something most players would not be able to do.

I don't know why you defend Curry so much but you need to stop pulling out the injury deck of cards. Not a single peep from Warriors fans when you guys were up 3-1. It then became that Cavs only won because of Draymond's suspension. No one brought up Curry's injuries until it became convenient for them to defend Curry.

MygirlhatesCod
09-08-2017, 04:43 AM
1. They don't hand out storyline awards.

2. If you've ever been injured you would know a leg injury is going to effect all of your movement but let's keep making as many excuses for him as we can. Did he throw that behind the back pass out of bounds in the clutch of game 7 because of injury?

isn't that what happened with westbrook?

MygirlhatesCod
09-08-2017, 05:03 AM
they would be favorites for sure. the money KD would leave probably goes to Hayward, porter, or gay.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2017, 09:19 AM
maybe but I'd take the field

without Durant, in a bet? I would take the field as well, because now they can't sustain an injury to a core player and get away with it.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 09:20 AM
1. They absolutely do, they do it all the time.

2. You are deflecting here. You said he was not injured, now you bring up the pass that had nothing to do with his legs. Of course he made mistakes, I never said he did not, but denying the injury is where you are flat out wrong.

1. Not in the NBA Finals they don't.

2. We'll I can barely dunk in game too, hopefully I get injured so I can start throwing down 360 dunks off an oop. He wasn't injured anymore than the rest of them out there.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 09:20 AM
isn't that what happened with westbrook?

I was referring to Finals MVP.

Scoots
09-08-2017, 09:49 AM
This thread started out looking like a problem and boy has it gone off the rails.

Allphakenny1
09-08-2017, 09:53 AM
That wasn't an excuse. It was a logical reasoning an argument as to why LeBron didn't get outplayed. You act as if any opposing argument to that of yours is an excuse when it's far from it.

I said he was injured. Injured is not disabled. Curry played bad and made terrible decisions. Many of the shots he took in the fourth Q were not due to his injury. His injury prevented him from scoring against Kevin Love - which I did not mention because that was valid. How about the wide open threes? Again, watch game seven again. Curry shot 4-14 from three, 34% from the field, and for the series, had more turnovers than assists. How injured was the guy, truly? He missed two games. You can make an argument that they didn't even need him against Portland but he played. He wasn't dealing with a torn ACL. Stop the excuses.

Actually, come to think of it, the fact Curry didn't even dominate that first NBA Finals spoke volume of his ability to show up in the Finals. Against Matthew Delly and he couldn't muster up a dominating enough series to win the Finals MVP? I mean, Iggy had the tougher defensive workload by far. If Iggy isn't in that series, do you think Warriors win? I know Warriors don't win without Curry, either, but Iggy was THAT big of a deal for the Warriors. You could definitely make a case that Iggy was a better performer than Curry than Finals. What Iggy was able to do defensively was something most players would not be able to do.

I don't know why you defend Curry so much but you need to stop pulling out the injury deck of cards. Not a single peep from Warriors fans when you guys were up 3-1. It then became that Cavs only won because of Draymond's suspension. No one brought up Curry's injuries until it became convenient for them to defend Curry.

Ok, this back and forth is pointless if we are just going to keep arguing in circles so this will be it for me. Last time:

1. You called me out for making excuses for Curry right after you finished making excuses for LeBron. I just found it very hypocritical.

2. You agreed Curry was injured then argue with me for saying the same thing. This makes no sense to me.

3. You constantly bring up Curry under performing when I made that point myself. This is the majority of your post and it is pointless to bring up. I say Curry under performed and the injury effected him as well. He was one of the best at getting to the rim all year and he stopped after the injury. He played good defense that year and he sucked after the injury. Why should we assume the injury had absolutely nothing to do with his poor play. He could have played bad and had the injury affect him as well. It does not have to be one or the other. Finally, Curry was way better than Iggy. Once he figured out the trap he played phenomenally and he dominated fourth quarters when it counted that series.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 10:09 AM
Ok, this back and forth is pointless if we are just going to keep arguing in circles so this will be it for me. Last time:

1. You called me out for making excuses for Curry right after you finished making excuses for LeBron. I just found it very hypocritical.

2. You agreed Curry was injured then argue with me for saying the same thing. This makes no sense to me.

3. You constantly bring up Curry under performing when I made that point myself. This is the majority of your post and it is pointless to bring up. I say Curry under performed and the injury effected him as well. He was one of the best at getting to the rim all year and he stopped after the injury. He played good defense that year and he sucked after the injury. Why should we assume the injury had absolutely nothing to do with his poor play. He could have played bad and had the injury affect him as well. It does not have to be one or the other. Finally, Curry was way better than Iggy. Once he figured out the trap he played phenomenally and he dominated fourth quarters when it counted that series.

1) But I didn't make excuses. Everyone here has acknowledged that KD has the better team and thus, his responsibilities on the team are much less while coming at a more efficient rate.

2) I said he was injured but still capable of making a large impact. Draymond outplayed him in the 2016 Finals. Curry played 40+ minutes. He was injured - not disabled.

3) Better player but not better performer. Curry should have won Finals MVP considering Cavs Curry did not have to play defense and Delly is a bench player.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 10:19 AM
1. You want to see a player clearly playing injured look at Wade in the 2013 and 2014 finals where he could barely run. I bet he couldn't do 360 dunks then.

2. LeBron would be crucified if Chalmers or Battier won Finals MVP over him.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 10:22 AM
1. You want to see a player clearly playing injured look at Wade in the 2013 and 2014 finals where he could barely run. I bet he couldn't do 360 dunks then.

2. LeBron would be crucified if Chalmers or Battier won Finals MVP over him.

If even Kyrie won the Finals MVP over LeBron, we would never hear the end of it. Imagine if someone like J.R. Smith won it over LeBron? The fact Curry got ZERO Finals MVP votes from those who could vote sums it up.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 10:33 AM
If even Kyrie won the Finals MVP over LeBron, we would never hear the end of it. Imagine if someone like J.R. Smith won it over LeBron? The fact Curry got ZERO Finals MVP votes from those who could vote sums it up.

Exactly the dude got ZERO votes but some try to claim he was better. If you're the all time player people try to make you out to be you don't lose Finals MVP to a role player who came off the bench to start the series.

The world would go ****ing nuts if JR Smith won over LeBron lmao!

MygirlhatesCod
09-08-2017, 10:37 AM
If even Kyrie won the Finals MVP over LeBron, we would never hear the end of it. Imagine if someone like J.R. Smith won it over LeBron? The fact Curry got ZERO Finals MVP votes from those who could vote sums it up.

I couldn't image how annoying that would be......

PayDaPiper
09-08-2017, 11:19 AM
1. Not in the NBA Finals they don't.

2. We'll I can barely dunk in game too, hopefully I get injured so I can start throwing down 360 dunks off an oop. He wasn't injured anymore than the rest of them out there.

Curry was unquestionably injured. You don't miss 3 weeks with a sprained MCL and come back to be able to compete at 100% in the WCF and Finals. His explosiveness, quickness, cutting, all not close to where they were all year.

KD had an MCL sprain this year and took 6 weeks to come back. Curry and company also don't care about awards like who gets finals MVP, part of why they are so good, unselfish to the max

Curry certainly redeemed himself this year in the finals almost averaging a triple double, Durant was just unstoppable..

Curry 26.8 pts 9.4 asts 8 rbs

Durant 35.2 pts 5.4 asts 8.2 rbs

Vinsanity115
09-08-2017, 11:21 AM
Yes. If they had a decent replacement.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 11:22 AM
Curry was unquestionably injured. You don't miss 3 weeks with a sprained MCL and come back to be able to compete at 100% in the WCF and Finals. His explosiveness, quickness, cutting, all not close to where they were all year.

KD had an MCL sprain this year and took 6 weeks to come back. Curry and company also don't care about awards like who gets finals MVP, part of why they are so good, unselfish to the max

Curry certainly redeemed himself this year in the finals almost averaging a triple double, Durant was just unstoppable..

Curry 26.8 pts 9.4 asts 8 rbs

Durant 35.2 pts 5.4 asts 8.2 rbs

Curry played the way he's supposed to last year in the finals that's for sure. He's 1 for 3 in that category though.

Him and KD should play that way with their supporting cast, you can set your defense for them, double, etc.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 11:33 AM
Nobody gave Wade a pass in 2013 (even though he played huge in the biggest games) and 2014 in the finals when it was clear as day he was injured so I don't want to hear the excuses for Curry when he was moving much better than Wade.

valade16
09-08-2017, 11:56 AM
1. They don't hand out storyline awards.

2. If you've ever been injured you would know a leg injury is going to effect all of your movement but let's keep making as many excuses for him as we can. Did he throw that behind the back pass out of bounds in the clutch of game 7 because of injury?

Derrick Rose & Russell Westbrook say hi.


1. Not in the NBA Finals they don't.

2. We'll I can barely dunk in game too, hopefully I get injured so I can start throwing down 360 dunks off an oop. He wasn't injured anymore than the rest of them out there.

Kobe Bryant says hi.

Narrative plays a factor in all awards, justly or unjustly.

Curry had 26 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, .585 TS%, 17.9 Gamescore
Iggy had 16 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, .588 TS%, 13.6 Gamescore

Curry statistically outplayed Iggy. Now add narrative: Curry underachieved and Iggy overachieved.

Hence, Iggy getting the award.

valade16
09-08-2017, 11:59 AM
Did Curry guard Delly? If so, he did a pretty good job. Has anyone seen Delly's numbers in that Finals? They were horrible. .389 TS%. Whoever guarded him did a very good job apparently.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 12:04 PM
Derrick Rose & Russell Westbrook say hi.



Kobe Bryant says hi.

Narrative plays a factor in all awards, justly or unjustly.

Curry had 26 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, .585 TS%, 17.9 Gamescore
Iggy had 16 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, .588 TS%, 13.6 Gamescore

Curry statistically outplayed Iggy. Now add narrative: Curry underachieved and Iggy overachieved.

Hence, Iggy getting the award.

Why does Kobe say hi?

Iggy also played far and away better defense and hit the big shots.

WaDe03
09-08-2017, 12:04 PM
Did Curry guard Delly? If so, he did a pretty good job. Has anyone seen Delly's numbers in that Finals? They were horrible. .389 TS%. Whoever guarded him did a very good job apparently.

Yea Delly is an offensive Juggernaut, especially when compared to LeBron.

valade16
09-08-2017, 12:42 PM
Yea Delly is an offensive Juggernaut, especially when compared to LeBron.

Certainly not. Funny enough actually, Iggy caused Bron's TS% to drop 10%, Curry apparently caused Delly's TS% to drop 10.04%.

Now, of course his job was not nearly as hard and Iggy certainly did an amazing job guarding LeBron. But it's funny when people somehow point to him guarding Delly as if Delly lit him up.

Heediot
09-08-2017, 01:20 PM
Cavs would win. You go from KD-Iggy duo to a Iggy/Matt Barnes duo vs. James. Cavs only lost delly but gained Korver. Warriors lost more depth. The spread would favor GS, but I think Cavs win.

tredigs
09-08-2017, 01:30 PM
Well, their team could/probably would be similarly rated to their team going into 2015/16 (after winning the first title). So, probably considered somewhere around the 3rd favorite with the Cavs and/or Boston and/or San Antonio and/or OKC and/or Houston. So far the only years they have been favored in the preseason (odds wise) were post KD signing.

tredigs
09-08-2017, 01:33 PM
Certainly not. Funny enough actually, Iggy caused Bron's TS% to drop 10%, Curry apparently caused Delly's TS% to drop 10.04%.

Now, of course his job was not nearly as hard and Iggy certainly did an amazing job guarding LeBron. But it's funny when people somehow point to him guarding Delly as if Delly lit him up.

Not to mention Curry matched the All-Time Finals 4th quarter scoring mark (Jordan's) twice in that series. Overall he was fantastic, and clearly focused on more than any player on both teams in that series ('Bron essentially single teamed until within the key). Still, he started slow and the narrative never caught up.

Bostonjorge
09-08-2017, 02:05 PM
They would still be the team to beat but every playoff round will be tough.

Davis, Cousins, Rondo and Holiday

Wiggins, Butler, Towns and Teague

Westbrook, George and Adams

Harden and Paul

Spurs

Blake, Jordan, Gallo

These guys can make it real interesting in the West alone. KD makes it one guy to many.

Heediot
09-08-2017, 03:14 PM
Oh shoot, I thought the Op meant last season.

This season, I don't think they'll be favorites. KD is that second guy who can create his own when the Cavs lock onto Curry.

LOb0
09-08-2017, 03:48 PM
With this Kyrie trade? Yeah they'd be better than the Cavs, and I'd still pick them.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2017, 03:49 PM
With this Kyrie trade? Yeah they'd be better than the Cavs, and I'd still pick them.

if IT plays at the same level to close the season, this years Cav's are better than last year.

tredigs
09-08-2017, 03:55 PM
if IT plays at the same level to close the season, this years Cav's are better than last year.

That's a tough sell though. IT just had his career year, is not particularly young, and has a significant enough injury that there is no timetable for his return. Throw in how effective Kyrie has been in the playoffs with how poor IT has been... the continuity issues... the even worse D... and it just does not add up as a likely positive for Cleveland.

Chronz
09-08-2017, 04:09 PM
Pretty sure they were ranked 2nd before the defection but that was assuming kd stayed on his contender, that's gone. But also assumed Barnes would be back. I'd have them above any team today still but it would be exciting basketball as opposed to this crap

Chronz
09-08-2017, 04:10 PM
That's a tough sell though. IT just had his career year, is not particularly young, and has a significant enough injury that there is no timetable for his return. Throw in how effective Kyrie has been in the playoffs with how poor IT has been... the continuity issues... the even worse D... and it just does not add up as a likely positive for Cleveland.

That was without Bron tho. Look at what curry did for kd in the loffs

Chronz
09-08-2017, 04:11 PM
Oh shoot, I thought the Op meant last season.

This season, I don't think they'll be favorites. KD is that second guy who can create his own when the Cavs lock onto Curry.
Yeah me too. Forgot about Houston, would have them on equal footing

Hawkeye15
09-08-2017, 04:11 PM
That's a tough sell though. IT just had his career year, is not particularly young, and has a significant enough injury that there is no timetable for his return. Throw in how effective Kyrie has been in the playoffs with how poor IT has been... the continuity issues... the even worse D... and it just does not add up as a likely positive for Cleveland.

If IT is anywhere near what he was last year, the Cavs come out on top. Crowder/IT is straight up superior to Irving. Also factor in the fact that IT will get a ton more freedom with LeBron, and his impact will rise. The Cavs got better with this trade, if IT plays, and is healthy-ish.

nastynice
09-08-2017, 04:17 PM
Curry wasn't injured he just underperformed again.

lol, wait, so you think Curry wasn't injured in the 2016 playoffs?

Not that it made any difference when it came to his bone headed plays, but guy, people don't just age in one week (besides wade, lol!), stay aged for 3 months, then return back to form the following season.

That's hella funny, I remember people questioning it thru the playoffs, but by the time we were in the Cleveland series how was that a question? Dudes first step was completely diff

tredigs
09-08-2017, 04:19 PM
If IT is anywhere near what he was last year, the Cavs come out on top. Crowder/IT is straight up superior to Irving. Also factor in the fact that IT will get a ton more freedom with LeBron, and his impact will rise. The Cavs got better with this trade, if IT plays, and is healthy-ish.

Crowder would be maybe the 13th best player in the series, and I simply don't see IT - especially after this injury - competing at the playoff level of Kyrie (considering he never has prior). Continuity is another concern for sure. Smart trade given their hand but no I don't think they improve.

Bostonjorge
09-08-2017, 04:24 PM
Crowder would be maybe the 13th best player in the series, and I simply don't see IT - especially after this injury - competing at the playoff level of Kyrie (considering he never has prior). Continuity is another concern for sure. Smart trade given their hand but no I don't think they improve.

The player on GS being guarded by Crowder won't think he's the 13th best player in the series.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2017, 04:32 PM
Crowder would be maybe the 13th best player in the series, and I simply don't see IT - especially after this injury - competing at the playoff level of Kyrie (considering he never has prior). Continuity is another concern for sure. Smart trade given their hand but no I don't think they improve.

you are underrating Crowder. I don't read that much into RPM, but Crowder was the most positive player in the trade by that measure, pretty easily.

Of course they improve, again, if IT is near what he was. They inevitably will face GS again, and added a wing defender, depth up front, and barely lose anything at PG. We don't even know what the pick does yet, that could put this trade into laughable mode if they get a legit starting player from it.

I will preface this with, you know I am not high on Irving, like at all. THE most overrated player in the NBA in my opinion. Take James away from him, and he has done literally **** to win a basketball game.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2017, 04:32 PM
The player on GS being guarded by Crowder won't think he's the 13th best player in the series.

he is every bit as good as Iggy currently, so not sure where 13th best player in the series comes from.

tredigs
09-08-2017, 05:05 PM
he is every bit as good as Iggy currently, so not sure where 13th best player in the series comes from.

Lol well 13 is just off the cuff but "every bit as good as Iggy", not to me, absolutely not. There is NO scenario for next season I would want what Crowder brings as a role-playing wing on a contender over what Iguodala brings. Both defensively and leadership wise you take Iguodala every time. You're also massively underestimating how potent playoff-Kyrie is and how terrible playoff IT is. Not sure why you're doing so (other than your admitted distaste for Irving... which I agree is warranted in the reg season), but it's silly imo. The production of the two after April are not comparable, and when you throw in that IT won't be coming back for quite some time (continuity) plus has essentially zero chance to be better than playoff Kyrie as is, let alone whatever effects the injury to the vet will bring, I don't really see how you can think the team improved in the short term (unless they flip that pick this season). Time will tell though.

Chronz
09-08-2017, 05:08 PM
You guys hear tmac bring up kd joining the best team as an example of anyone being capable of being a champ? Dude would have never made such a cowardly move that much is certain

Chronz
09-08-2017, 05:10 PM
he is every bit as good as Iggy currently, so not sure where 13th best player in the series comes from.

I'm expecting/ hoping iggy massively declines soon. Has to come eventually

hugepatsfan
09-08-2017, 05:28 PM
he is every bit as good as Iggy currently, so not sure where 13th best player in the series comes from.

Eh. Iggy is definitely a better defender and better at offense other than spot up threes.

Crowder shot 40% in the regular season last year. If that's him, he's probably on par with Iggy since that's great shooting and makes up for his other losses in the comparison. But in the playoffs he shot a streak 35% which is in line with that you'd have expected going into the season. So it comes down to

And I know people will quote this and say "oh well he'll shoot better percentages with Lebron." Yup, sure will. But percentages aren't all it's about. It's about how you impact a defense, how much attention do you draw away from others. Take the percentages out of it. In order to be on Iggy's level he needs to be the type of shooter he was for the regular season last year (because he's not the defender, passer, ball handler, shot creator that Iggy is). If he regresses to the shooter he was during the playoffs then he's not as good.

Personally I'm skeptical of his shooting so, as I've been saying for awhile, I think he's gotta be #6/7 on your team if you're serious about winning. He's a great value with his contract and a good role player but I don't think he's more than that. He's not a guy that should be in the top half of your rotation IMO.

JordansBulls
09-08-2017, 09:28 PM
No they would lose to San Antonio or Houston in a series easily.

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 09:54 PM
No they would lose to San Antonio or Houston in a series easily.

You just say this to convince yourself that LeBron beat a weaker team. I don't know why you use logic in your other posts but void it when it comes to anything that would paint LeBron as superior.

5ass
09-08-2017, 10:02 PM
You just say this to convince yourself that LeBron beat a weaker team. I don't know why you use logic in your other posts but void it when it comes to anything that would paint LeBron as superior.

He's been like that for the past 7+ years LOL.

Jamiecballer
09-08-2017, 10:15 PM
isn't that what happened with westbrook?Winner let's all go home ladies and gents

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
09-08-2017, 11:11 PM
Certainly not. Funny enough actually, Iggy caused Bron's TS% to drop 10%, Curry apparently caused Delly's TS% to drop 10.04%.

Now, of course his job was not nearly as hard and Iggy certainly did an amazing job guarding LeBron. But it's funny when people somehow point to him guarding Delly as if Delly lit him up.

People gave Delly credit because he was a bench player who was guarding the MVP and made him work for every shot. So much that apparently, Delly had to be hospitalized after the game because he was playing on pure adrenaline. Delly isn't a scorer. He's a guy who is there to play tough. When he's the Cavs 2nd best offensive player/playmaker in a series, what do you expect?

JordansBulls
09-08-2017, 11:43 PM
You just say this to convince yourself that LeBron beat a weaker team. I don't know why you use logic in your other posts but void it when it comes to anything that would paint LeBron as superior.

How so? They would have lost to San Antonio had Parker and Kawhi not got hurt.

Saddletramp
09-08-2017, 11:49 PM
People gave Delly credit because he was a bench player who was guarding the MVP and made him work for every shot. So much that apparently, Delly had to be hospitalized after the game because he was playing on pure adrenaline. Delly isn't a scorer. He's a guy who is there to play tough. When he's the Cavs 2nd best offensive player/playmaker in a series, what do you expect?

Yeah, when I read that guys were saying how great a job Curry did on Delly, I laughed. The second stringer got shoved into guarding the League MVP and spent nights in the hospital with IVs after a few games. No Kyrie/no Love. And his TS% went down? No, you don't say.

tredigs
09-09-2017, 12:03 AM
Yeah, when I read that guys were saying how great a job Curry did on Delly, I laughed. The second stringer got shoved into guarding the League MVP and spent nights in the hospital with IVs after a few games. No Kyrie/no Love. And his TS% went down? No, you don't say.

Nobody cared about Delly offensively and never did. The narrative was that Delly was the Curry stopper, and he put that to bed along with the series quite quickly. Not sure where the revisionist history is coming into play.

FlashBolt
09-09-2017, 12:52 AM
How so? They would have lost to San Antonio had Parker and Kawhi not got hurt.

You speak in absolutes. You know the lotto numbers for next week?

Saddletramp
09-09-2017, 04:02 PM
Nobody cared about Delly offensively and never did. The narrative was that Delly was the Curry stopper, and he put that to bed along with the series quite quickly. Not sure where the revisionist history is coming into play.

Yeah, it's a totally different ball game when half your team is injured and you're tripling (quadrupling?) your minutes per game.


I just found humor in Valade's post (assuming it's not sarcasm):


Did Curry guard Delly? If so, he did a pretty good job. Has anyone seen Delly's numbers in that Finals? They were horrible. .389 TS%. Whoever guarded him did a very good job apparently.

JasonJohnHorn
09-13-2017, 09:47 AM
2. LeBron would be crucified if Chalmers or Battier won Finals MVP over him.

Neither Chalmers or Battier were former All-Stars. Iggy was an All-Star, All-Defensive player. This was no different than, say, Maxwell winning finals MVP over Bird. Do people discredit Bird because of that? Of course not.


If even Kyrie won the Finals MVP over LeBron, we would never hear the end of it. Imagine if someone like J.R. Smith won it over LeBron? The fact Curry got ZERO Finals MVP votes from those who could vote sums it up.

The only reason this is a conversation is because people are comparing LBJ to Jordan exclusively.

Duncan didn't win Finals MVP several times; it never hurt his legacy. LBJ would be fine is Kyrie won a finals MVP.


In their first title, Curry and Klay took the heat off his teammates. This allows Iggy and Green to excel.

The year they lost, Curry was playing injured.

This year, they had that last two MVPs on their team; either was open to win it, and Curry and Klay again opened things up for their teammates.

WaDe03
09-13-2017, 09:55 AM
Neither Chalmers or Battier were former All-Stars. Iggy was an All-Star, All-Defensive player. This was no different than, say, Maxwell winning finals MVP over Bird. Do people discredit Bird because of that? Of course not.



The only reason this is a conversation is because people are comparing LBJ to Jordan exclusively.

Duncan didn't win Finals MVP several times; it never hurt his legacy. LBJ would be fine is Kyrie won a finals MVP.


In their first title, Curry and Klay took the heat off his teammates. This allows Iggy and Green to excel.

The year they lost, Curry was playing injured.

This year, they had that last two MVPs on their team; either was open to win it, and Curry and Klay again opened things up for their teammates.

Star players should never lose the Finals MVP to a role player.

FlashBolt
09-14-2017, 12:15 AM
Star players should never lose the Finals MVP to a role player.

Worthy and Maxwell are the others that come to mind but Worthy was much better than he gets credit for. Maxwell, idk what happened. Bird was real bad that series.. but no one remembers it, ever. Bird choked in the playoffs a bunch of times.

mrblisterdundee
09-14-2017, 06:07 PM
Even without Durant, they still have tons of depth and the best back court in the NBA. They can Young in at small forward to drill threes, and Iguodala if they need defense. Draymond could still play power forward, and his soon-to-be disciple Bell would make a good rim-running center who can defend almost anyone.

R. Johnson#3
09-14-2017, 07:02 PM
Yes easily