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View Full Version : Cleveland might damage the EC by rejecting this trade



j-bay
08-26-2017, 01:27 AM
Adam Silver might not be happy with this. The Eastern Conf could be a whole lot weaker after this season than we really thought. Lets hope the Cavs still accepts but lets go to two scenarios

1.The Cavs trade Kyrie to the Bucks. And after this season, its

1.Wizards
2.Bucks
3.Raptors
4.Celtics(Without IT)

Still decent but it wouldn't be as strong as if Kyrie was on the Celtics. Now its time for the worse case

Kyrie gets traded to the Suns
1.Wizards
2.Raptors
3.Celtics(Without IT)
4.Bucks

That is a weak ECF. As much as I would love to see the Wizards on top, I wouldn't want to see it like this. In my opinion having a Celtics team with Kyrie is better is better than having a Bucks team with Kyrie because there is more consequences to the Celtics not having vs the Bucks not having Kyrie. If i'm the NBA i do something to convince the Cavs to take the trade. Maybe guarentee that pick to be a top 3 pick. Something has to be done

Dade County
08-26-2017, 01:41 AM
:laugh2: You are a fanatic about your Wiz.

Organizations will make moves, so lets wait & see who rises to the top. Also, everyone thinks Lbj is heading West if he leaves the Cav's; but I don't think that will be the case.

Lbj stays out East for his entire career.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 01:49 AM
:laugh2: You are a fanatic about your Wiz.

Organizations will make moves, so lets wait & see who rises to the top. Also, everyone thinks Lbj is heading West if he leaves the Cav's; but I don't think that will be the case.

Lebron is gone. There are just too many signs. With Lebron, when there is smoke there is fire.

As for the Wizards, yes i love them, but i want to see some more competition. And I think whats best for the NBA is Kyrie on the the Celtics. If Kyrie goes West, probably the Suns, then the East is in trouble.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 01:53 AM
And yes i know there is also the Sixers, but even they have question marks going into the future. As for the Raptor, I don't know if i can trust a team led by Lowry. Good player but not someone you want on the frontlines.

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 01:54 AM
I know some people would throw out the solution of eliminating the conferences and do the top 16 teams but I believe the majority of owners have to agree to it. It'll never get passed. Too much money involved.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 08:45 AM
I know some people would throw out the solution of eliminating the conferences and do the top 16 teams but I believe the majority of owners have to agree to it. It'll never get passed. Too much money involved.

Exactly why it will never happen.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 08:59 AM
Cavs were close to considering Bucks trade offer cause it was the only decent offer at the time. Until Ainge toss in the Nets pick. But injured IT isn't to enticing. Crowder is a nice cheap contract 3 and D wing. But his D did slip a tad last season. LeBron probably forgot IT was injured and may miss a bunch of games. Then LeBron started thinking man Love and I will be gassed before playoffs kick in. Also figured log jam at the wings and probably hard to trade Smith or Shumpert. Then add in Crowder on the depth chart behind LeBron at SF. Also you got the Cavs out of the top 4 or 5 spots?

warfelg
08-26-2017, 10:00 AM
I also don't see how Cleveland damage's the EC by rejecting the trade?!?

They're doing whats best from their standpoint. In reality I think rejecting a trade for a team that might be taking in damaged goods is better for them. Here's the possible outcomes:

1) They could go back and rework the trade. Wait another month or so and see what happens with IT and maybe Boston has to add something because of this botched trade attempt.

2) Cleveland can seek out another deal. This might be the option that wins, with them finding another team in the east to deal with, and bring the total number of elite to near elite teams in the east to 3/4 and really make it a battle in the east.

3) Cleveland can just keep him. Although I don't see how that happens.

4) You sell him for pennies on the dollar to anyone else just to move on.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 10:05 AM
I know some people would throw out the solution of eliminating the conferences and do the top 16 teams but I believe the majority of owners have to agree to it. It'll never get passed. Too much money involved.

Exactly ... I think it wouldn't keep coming up but Silver, when given the chance to shut it down instead poured fuel on it by saying they'd consider it.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 10:07 AM
And this thread is kind of silly ... the only thing that weakens the east is talent moving west.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 10:13 AM
And this thread is kind of silly ... the only thing that weakens the east is talent moving west.

Agreed. Stupid GM's in the East that rather not have to face a guy again or see him in the playoffs than take the right deal.

This was one of those examples of GM's taking the best deal rather than the stupid thing. Hopefully Cleveland doesn't just send Kyrie west out of spite.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 10:24 AM
I also don't see how Cleveland damage's the EC by rejecting the trade?!?

They're doing whats best from their standpoint. In reality I think rejecting a trade for a team that might be taking in damaged goods is better for them. Here's the possible outcomes:

1) They could go back and rework the trade. Wait another month or so and see what happens with IT and maybe Boston has to add something because of this botched trade attempt.

2) Cleveland can seek out another deal. This might be the option that wins, with them finding another team in the east to deal with, and bring the total number of elite to near elite teams in the east to 3/4 and really make it a battle in the east.

3) Cleveland can just keep him. Although I don't see how that happens.

4) You sell him for pennies on the dollar to anyone else just to move on.

I would take it if i'm Cleveland. The franchise player is the one to blame here. He wants to compete against the Warriors but also has his foot outside the door and its caused a negative reaction(Kyrie leaving). If i'm the Cavs GM I say **** LeBron and i'm focusing on the future. The Cavs have a chance to get bailed out AGAIN with this Brooklyn pick. Do you want a superstar or the less sexy trade with the Bucks, where you get a low first and the ROY but was ROY in one of the weakest classes ever. The other is the Suns, but if the Cavs don't want an injury risk then don't turn around and trade for Eric Bledsoe. Before the Irving trade and before this news, the EC was set up to have two very strong teams in future, now the Cavs might have taken one of them down with them.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 10:25 AM
Agreed. Stupid GM's in the East that rather not have to face a guy again or see him in the playoffs than take the right deal.

This was one of those examples of GM's taking the best deal rather than the stupid thing. Hopefully Cleveland doesn't just send Kyrie west out of spite.

This

warfelg
08-26-2017, 10:36 AM
I would take it if i'm Cleveland. The franchise player is the one to blame here. He wants to compete against the Warriors but also has his foot outside the door and its caused a negative reaction(Kyrie leaving). If i'm the Cavs GM I say **** LeBron and i'm focusing on the future. The Cavs have a chance to get bailed out AGAIN with this Brooklyn pick. Do you want a superstar or the less sexy trade with the Bucks, where you get a low first and the ROY but was ROY in one of the weakest classes ever. The other is the Suns, but if the Cavs don't want an injury risk then don't turn around and trade for Eric Bledsoe. Before the Irving trade and before this news, the EC was set up to have two very strong teams in future, now the Cavs might have taken one of them down with them.

I'm sorry this all reads like bitter Celtics fan that you aren't getting Kyrie more than the Cav's are going what's best for them.

No matter how you want to spin it the Cav's are just looking out for their interests and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 11:03 AM
No way Cleveland backs out

That Brooklyn pick is GOLD

They are just trying to extort more

j-bay
08-26-2017, 02:11 PM
I'm sorry this all reads like bitter Celtics fan that you aren't getting Kyrie more than the Cav's are going what's best for them.

No matter how you want to spin it the Cav's are just looking out for their interests and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Its a shame i'm a bitter Wizards fan then. And if the Cavs were looking at there interest, they would see the writing on the wall. They did nothing to truly improve against the Warriors, all the Warriors key guys are returning, and it looks like Lebron has his foot out the door. Like i said with Lebron, where there is smoke there is fire. Meanwhile the Cavs are getting a get out of jail free card again (2011 LA Clippers pick)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 03:48 PM
No way Cleveland backs out

That Brooklyn pick is GOLD

They are just trying to extort more

How deep is the 2018 draft? Hard to say when kids can change their minds and stay in school. Could be a crapshoot. Also who knows where Nets land once the draft is here. I think they wont be the worst. Yeah you still got lottery chances of a lucky bounce. But I think Hawks, Bulls, Lakers, Suns will be easily worse then Nets. Then you got Magic and maybe Pistons and Mavs yet up in the air. Also other teams could get injuries and shut it down and tank. Lots of what ifs. But I think this Nets team wont be a gimme top 3 pick. I think Nets pick is between #5 and #9 before lottery bouncy balls. Just my opinion.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 04:47 PM
How deep is the 2018 draft? Hard to say when kids can change their minds and stay in school. Could be a crapshoot. Also who knows where Nets land once the draft is here. I think they wont be the worst. Yeah you still got lottery chances of a lucky bounce. But I think Hawks, Bulls, Lakers, Suns will be easily worse then Nets. Then you got Magic and maybe Pistons and Mavs yet up in the air. Also other teams could get injuries and shut it down and tank. Lots of what ifs. But I think this Nets team wont be a gimme top 3 pick. I think Nets pick is between #5 and #9 before lottery bouncy balls. Just my opinion.

Its probably deeper then last years looking at the list

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 05:25 PM
That's if the list stays the same come draft time. Some kids have a change of heart if their agent says you may fall. Or some other kids are on the rise. Seems every year a couple good ones go back another year.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 06:25 PM
How deep is the 2018 draft? Hard to say when kids can change their minds and stay in school. Could be a crapshoot. Also who knows where Nets land once the draft is here. I think they wont be the worst. Yeah you still got lottery chances of a lucky bounce. But I think Hawks, Bulls, Lakers, Suns will be easily worse then Nets. Then you got Magic and maybe Pistons and Mavs yet up in the air. Also other teams could get injuries and shut it down and tank. Lots of what ifs. But I think this Nets team wont be a gimme top 3 pick. I think Nets pick is between #5 and #9 before lottery bouncy balls. Just my opinion.

We get it dude ... you want Irving on the bucks... the key to the deal is the nets pick... none of the players floated by the bucks or the celtics included in the deal matter long term if the cavs rebuild... your pick isn't valuable at all.

Romeo Naes
08-26-2017, 06:55 PM
Adam Silver will always do what is in the best interest of his Golden Boy Lebron James. If IT's hip is too damaged, he will back Cleveland on rejecting the trade. He needs Lebron James in the NBA Finals as much as possible. Just look at the ratings he produces.

5ass
08-26-2017, 07:01 PM
How deep is the 2018 draft? Hard to say when kids can change their minds and stay in school. Could be a crapshoot. Also who knows where Nets land once the draft is here. I think they wont be the worst. Yeah you still got lottery chances of a lucky bounce. But I think Hawks, Bulls, Lakers, Suns will be easily worse then Nets. Then you got Magic and maybe Pistons and Mavs yet up in the air. Also other teams could get injuries and shut it down and tank. Lots of what ifs. But I think this Nets team wont be a gimme top 3 pick. I think Nets pick is between #5 and #9 before lottery bouncy balls. Just my opinion.
Easily worse than the Nets?
Hawks: atleast have Schroder.
Bulls: yeah theyre trash without Wade.
Lakers: they won 6 more games than the nets last season. They added Lopez and KCP. Both better than anyone on the Nets IMO. Ball will replace Russel.
Suns: Booker in his third year. He could break out. He averaged 24 PPG in the last 40 games of the season. He might be a 25 PPG scorer next year. Booker and Bledsoe are better than anyone on the nets. They also won 4 more games than the nets last season.

The Nets could end up better than some or all. That's still a top 5 pick, but more likely top 3.

The pistons, Magic, and Mavs also have significantly more talent on the roster than the Nets. They won 9+ games more than the Nets last season. I think theyll all win 30+ unless they completely blow it up midseason.

Romeo Naes
08-26-2017, 07:11 PM
Easily worse than the Nets?
Hawks: atleast have Schroder.
Bulls: yeah theyre trash without Wade.
Lakers: they won 6 more games than the nets last season. They added Lopez and KCP. Both better than anyone on the Nets IMO. Ball will replace Russel.
Suns: Booker in his third year. He could break out. He averaged 24 PPG in the last 40 games of the season. He might be a 25 PPG scorer next year. Booker and Bledsoe are better than anyone on the nets. They also won 4 more games than the nets last season.

The Nets could end up better than some or all. That's still a top 5 pick, but more likely top 3.

The pistons, Magic, and Mavs also have significantly more talent on the roster than the Nets. They won 9+ games more than the Nets last season. I think theyll all win 30+ unless they completely blow it up midseason.

Ya, Nets are trash.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 07:34 PM
That's if the list stays the same come draft time. Some kids have a change of heart if their agent says you may fall. Or some other kids are on the rise. Seems every year a couple good ones go back another year.

It's NEVER the same ... some come up, some go down, some choose not to come out. Last year was REALLY deep. Usually a deep draft isn't followed by a deep draft. Next year looks more top heavy to me, but it's way too early.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:38 PM
It's NEVER the same ... some come up, some go down, some choose not to come out. Last year was REALLY deep. Usually a deep draft isn't followed by a deep draft. Next year looks more top heavy to me, but it's way too early.

And next years draft is always better than the most recent one. Remember that.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 07:42 PM
And next years draft is always better than the most recent one. Remember that.

In the minds of fans who are looking forward ... always :)

prodigy
08-27-2017, 09:26 AM
Lebron is gone. There are just too many signs. With Lebron, when there is smoke there is fire.

Well Lebron Loves the attention, He loves attention more then winning. So honestly nobody knows what hes going to do. Going west makes zero sense and the Lakers make even less sense. If Lebron wants to continue to contend he stays in the east and most likely the Cavs. I don't think its smart to assume someones going to leave. We just don't know.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-27-2017, 09:53 AM
Easily worse than the Nets?
Hawks: atleast have Schroder.
Bulls: yeah theyre trash without Wade.
Lakers: they won 6 more games than the nets last season. They added Lopez and KCP. Both better than anyone on the Nets IMO. Ball will replace Russel.
Suns: Booker in his third year. He could break out. He averaged 24 PPG in the last 40 games of the season. He might be a 25 PPG scorer next year. Booker and Bledsoe are better than anyone on the nets. They also won 4 more games than the nets last season.

The Nets could end up better than some or all. That's still a top 5 pick, but more likely top 3.

The pistons, Magic, and Mavs also have significantly more talent on the roster than the Nets. They won 9+ games more than the Nets last season. I think theyll all win 30+ unless they completely blow it up midseason.

Yeah I could be wrong about the Nets and they stink badly one more season of top 3. But I doubt it. They did add Russell, Carroll, Crabbe and ****** Mozgov. Also get a healthy Lin back this year. They were winning early last season before he got injured then they stumbled a bit. Beside that big man they drafted. They surprised teams last year raining threes. Stayed in some games kept games close. Yeah they still lost a bunch but they were in plenty of games yet.

As for you breakdown.

Hawks Schröder? Really he's gonna be a one man show and trump Nets in the standings? I highly doubt it.

Bulls with or without Wade are lottery no matter what.

Lakers did add KCP and Lopez. Two guys which are use to losing. Yeah Lakers got Johnson running the show. But I don't see them winning all the west games. They may pick on some of the east bottom feeders. But Lakers are lottery no matter what.

Suns went with the youth movement last season and benched Chandler and Dudley besides Knight out with ACL all year. I'm gonna guess Suns give up and trade Bledsoe at trade deadline for one more year of high lottery pick. Unless their youth explodes and win games in the west. Hard to say. Suns seem like a tank team for another year unless they breakdown and up the ante with Jackson in the trade for Irving then yeah maybe more wins. But who knows about the Cavs/Celtics trade.

Then ya got the Magic. Hard to say what their doing. Yeah they got my ex Bucks GM in Hammond. He loves to trade so maybe they look different at trade deadline. I think their lottery.

Pistons added Bradley and lost Morris twin and lost KCP. Hard to say. Drummond on the decline. Jackson seems to be injured or gassed most of the season.

I think Mavs bottom out. Old man Dirk just about done. Still can hit some nice jumpers but he should retire. No championships in his timeline anymore. Barnes is so so. Noel came back only on the QO. He wants to move on I think.

Yeah Nets are lottery, if they make the playoffs its cause other teams had injuries or slipped.

Knicks are lottery no matter if Melo is traded or not. All they got is KP.

76ers should be playoffs if Embiid is healthy for a good 50+ games. Can he? Yeah they added Redick but I think he will suck with a new team.

Kings improved. But ZBO threw a pot party and he's out now. I think Kings tank another year.

Pacers lost PG13 and got Sabonis and Oladipo. I think they miss playoffs as well.

Hard to judge right now who is better then who and schedules and back to back games and injuries to whom. Its a crapshoot. But i'm gonna be on the record and Nets wont be top 3 lottery before the ping pong balls go bouncing. Ya may get lucky in the lottery and the pick moves up though.

I think I posted yesterday Nets fall between #6 and #9 lottery before the lottery drawing.

Heck even Hornets could stumble and miss playoffs. Seems they always got the injury bug to Frank or MKG. Wished my Bucks traded for Walker. Jordan probably thinking playoffs since they traded for toxic Howard.

Heck a major injury to any super star can sink a team fast. Teams change midflight and start the tank within 20 or 30 games in. Also cant purely go back last years records and think each team will be the same. Teams changed. Schedules changed. Every game has to be played.

5ass
08-27-2017, 06:15 PM
Yeah I could be wrong about the Nets and they stink badly one more season of top 3. But I doubt it. They did add Russell, Carroll, Crabbe and ****** Mozgov. Also get a healthy Lin back this year. They were winning early last season before he got injured then they stumbled a bit. Beside that big man they drafted. They surprised teams last year raining threes. Stayed in some games kept games close. Yeah they still lost a bunch but they were in plenty of games yet.

As for you breakdown.

Hawks Schröder? Really he's gonna be a one man show and trump Nets in the standings? I highly doubt it.

Bulls with or without Wade are lottery no matter what.

Lakers did add KCP and Lopez. Two guys which are use to losing. Yeah Lakers got Johnson running the show. But I don't see them winning all the west games. They may pick on some of the east bottom feeders. But Lakers are lottery no matter what.

Suns went with the youth movement last season and benched Chandler and Dudley besides Knight out with ACL all year. I'm gonna guess Suns give up and trade Bledsoe at trade deadline for one more year of high lottery pick. Unless their youth explodes and win games in the west. Hard to say. Suns seem like a tank team for another year unless they breakdown and up the ante with Jackson in the trade for Irving then yeah maybe more wins. But who knows about the Cavs/Celtics trade.

Then ya got the Magic. Hard to say what their doing. Yeah they got my ex Bucks GM in Hammond. He loves to trade so maybe they look different at trade deadline. I think their lottery.

Pistons added Bradley and lost Morris twin and lost KCP. Hard to say. Drummond on the decline. Jackson seems to be injured or gassed most of the season.

I think Mavs bottom out. Old man Dirk just about done. Still can hit some nice jumpers but he should retire. No championships in his timeline anymore. Barnes is so so. Noel came back only on the QO. He wants to move on I think.

Yeah Nets are lottery, if they make the playoffs its cause other teams had injuries or slipped.

Knicks are lottery no matter if Melo is traded or not. All they got is KP.

76ers should be playoffs if Embiid is healthy for a good 50+ games. Can he? Yeah they added Redick but I think he will suck with a new team.

Kings improved. But ZBO threw a pot party and he's out now. I think Kings tank another year.

Pacers lost PG13 and got Sabonis and Oladipo. I think they miss playoffs as well.

Hard to judge right now who is better then who and schedules and back to back games and injuries to whom. Its a crapshoot. But i'm gonna be on the record and Nets wont be top 3 lottery before the ping pong balls go bouncing. Ya may get lucky in the lottery and the pick moves up though.

I think I posted yesterday Nets fall between #6 and #9 lottery before the lottery drawing.

Heck even Hornets could stumble and miss playoffs. Seems they always got the injury bug to Frank or MKG. Wished my Bucks traded for Walker. Jordan probably thinking playoffs since they traded for toxic Howard.

Heck a major injury to any super star can sink a team fast. Teams change midflight and start the tank within 20 or 30 games in. Also cant purely go back last years records and think each team will be the same. Teams changed. Schedules changed. Every game has to be played.

My point is i dont think the Nets are "easily" better than anyone.

Im not a fan of Schroder, but he's easily better than anyone on the Nets, and hes still improving every year. The reason I think the Hawks will have a better record is because i think the Nets are still terrible.

ofcourse bulls are lottery. Nobody is arguing otherwise. without wade they're trash. With Wade they could win more games than the Nets for sure. I dont believe Wade will be around long if at all when the season starts.

LAkers are a lottery team. Again, im not arguing otherwise.

The suns might or might not be better than the Nets, but i would bet they are. Booker is already better than anyone on the Nets. Im not sure if they'll trade Bledsoe. It seems like people have been talking about the suns trading bledsoe for atleast the last 3 years.

Kings are going to be bad. Id place them on the same level as the Nets.

Why are you making a case that these teams will end up in the lottery. I know that. Thats not what were discussing. We're comparing them with the Nets who will also for sure be in the lottery.

The probability of them making the play offs is much less than the probability of their pick landing top 3, IMO. Even with some teams suffering injuries or blowing it up, i still think they end up with a top 6 pick. Look at their roster. Their best players are all small guards (Lin, Crabbe, Russel) and none of them has proven to be an even average starter in this league.

Scoots
08-27-2017, 07:24 PM
My point is i dont think the Nets are "easily" better than anyone.

Im not a fan of Schroder, but he's easily better than anyone on the Nets, and hes still improving every year. The reason I think the Hawks will have a better record is because i think the Nets are still terrible.

ofcourse bulls are lottery. Nobody is arguing otherwise. without wade they're trash. With Wade they could win more games than the Nets for sure. I dont believe Wade will be around long if at all when the season starts.

LAkers are a lottery team. Again, im not arguing otherwise.

The suns might or might not be better than the Nets, but i would bet they are. Booker is already better than anyone on the Nets. Im not sure if they'll trade Bledsoe. It seems like people have been talking about the suns trading bledsoe for atleast the last 3 years.

Kings are going to be bad. Id place them on the same level as the Nets.

Why are you making a case that these teams will end up in the lottery. I know that. Thats not what were discussing. We're comparing them with the Nets who will also for sure be in the lottery.

The probability of them making the play offs is much less than the probability of their pick landing top 3, IMO. Even with some teams suffering injuries or blowing it up, i still think they end up with a top 6 pick. Look at their roster. Their best players are all small guards (Lin, Crabbe, Russel) and none of them has proven to be an even average starter in this league.

Anybody arguing that the Nets won't get the #1 pick with any kind of certainty are deluding themselves. First, the Nets could end up with the 10th worst record and still get the #1 pick. Second, while the Nets should be considerably better than they were last year they will still be a bad team.

However, it's also possible the Nets will finish with a better record than you think. No certainties.

5ass
08-27-2017, 08:08 PM
]Anybody arguing that the Nets won't get the #1 pick with any kind of certainty are deluding themselves. First, the Nets could end up with the 10th worst record and still get the #1 pick.[/B] Second, while the Nets should be considerably better than they were last year they will still be a bad team.

However, it's also possible the Nets will finish with a better record than you think. No certainties.

LOL OK. My bad, when i say top 5 pick i mean bottom 5 record. I think that is what most mean when they say that.

Ofcourse the Nets can over-achieve. Im saying based on their roster, theyre not "easily" better than anyone. Except maybe the Bulls.

LOb0
08-28-2017, 12:54 AM
LOL OK. My bad, when i say top 5 pick i mean bottom 5 record. I think that is what most mean when they say that.

Ofcourse the Nets can over-achieve. Im saying based on their roster, theyre not "easily" better than anyone. Except maybe the Bulls.


They're better than the Pacers, Hawks and Bulls easily. I think they could be better than Orlando and they're better than Sacramento.

So that pick should be 4-6.

Scoots
08-28-2017, 10:20 AM
Again, what REALLY matters with that Nets pick is how many teams are in full tank going for Porter.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-28-2017, 06:36 PM
They're better than the Pacers, Hawks and Bulls easily. I think they could be better than Orlando and they're better than Sacramento.

So that pick should be 4-6.

I'm predicting #5 through #9 for Nets before lottery balls drop.