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FlashBolt
08-25-2017, 11:12 PM
Wow!

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901279114623102976

IKnowHoops
08-25-2017, 11:15 PM
Wow!

Man...and they already burnt his jersey. Lol. Boston gonna have to add Tatum.

LA4life24/8
08-25-2017, 11:17 PM
Thought it was done? Can it be rescinded still?

Vee-Rex
08-25-2017, 11:27 PM
Every trade can be rescinded after the physical.

This is why I kept saying that I'm not worried about the hip injury at all. Cleveland's medical staff is superb, and if we don't like it we'll just void the trade.

Twolves88
08-25-2017, 11:27 PM
Thought it was done? Can it be rescinded still?

I'm thinking that IT would need to pass a physical prior to the trade being finalized. I think that does create ground for the trade not to go through. If this is true im wondering what boston knows about IT long term health with his hip.

tredigs
08-25-2017, 11:27 PM
Just thoughts off the top of your head or did Woj/Sham actually say this?


Every trade can be rescinded after the physical.

This is why I kept saying that I'm not worried about the hip injury at all. Cleveland's medical staff is superb, and if we don't like it we'll just void the trade.
But the season is fast approaching and they're not likely to get a better deal. Plus clearly there is 0% chance Kyrie will play for them at this point.

Edit: I'll do the work for OP: 901280075978600453

Twolves88
08-25-2017, 11:30 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=480367

Wade n Fade
08-25-2017, 11:31 PM
Woj said it. Thomas deal could be rescinded, which is a great redo for Boston since it gave up so much for Irving. Phoenix and Mil are front runners now if healthy players are the main focus.

AllBall
08-25-2017, 11:36 PM
LMFAO if this whole deal ends up denied for hip reasons. :laugh2:

IT is upset with C's
Kyrie is upseet with Cavs

Draaaaamaaa

Wade n Fade
08-25-2017, 11:39 PM
If I were a Bucks fan, I would be excited with the idea about getting Kyrie now.

Lakers + Giants
08-25-2017, 11:42 PM
Just trade Bron to LA and kyrie has his own team :)

Dade County
08-25-2017, 11:43 PM
LMFAO if this whole deal ends up denied for hip reasons. :laugh2:

IT is upset with C's
Kyrie is upseet with Cavs

Draaaaamaaa

This can't go down like this... Because :laugh: I can't :laugh2:

Vinny642
08-25-2017, 11:52 PM
THis is gonna get awkward

warfelg
08-25-2017, 11:56 PM
http://gph.is/1kvz6KA

Vinny642
08-25-2017, 11:58 PM
http://gph.is/1kvz6KA

Random but that actress is actually hot right now

redsox12
08-25-2017, 11:58 PM
I think Kyrie would have to play for the cavs or else the contract would never turn and he would still have a year left on his deal, and the cavs could force him to retire.

The question is, do they want the Nets pick and have a replacement for LeBron, or a bargaining chip for a big trade to try to get someone like a Anthony Davis to convince LeBron to stay.

I don't think the trade will be voided but if it is, then Boston will lose IT for nothing at the end of the year and will look stupid for not keeping the first pick in the 17 draft and passing on Fultz.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:00 AM
Danny Ainge if this does get reversed:
https://media.giphy.com/media/Vc8mKNHJeZRLO/giphy.gif

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:03 AM
Random but that actress is actually hot right now

Both are from that show. Miranda Cosgrove and Jennette McCurdy both grew up to be really beautiful.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 12:04 AM
If i'm the Cavs, i still go for it. No trade is going to help you beat the Warriors. And it looks like either way Lebron is gone. So take that Brooklyn pick and get a nice fresh start.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 12:05 AM
Just thoughts off the top of your head or did Woj/Sham actually say this?


But the season is fast approaching and they're not likely to get a better deal. Plus clearly there is 0% chance Kyrie will play for them at this point.

Edit: I'll do the work for OP: 901280075978600453

I'd rather swing a deal for Middleton and Brogdon than have IT if his hip is really bad. Milwaukee already offered both plus a 1st round.

Maybe some team will be willing to cough up more assets.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 12:06 AM
upside is if this doesnt go through celtics dont get the raped.... down side... they might have to take a worse deal because IT gonna want out lol

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 12:08 AM
upside is if this doesnt go through celtics dont get the raped.... down side... they might have to take a worse deal because IT gonna want out lol

Yep, plus his bad hip would lower his value.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:08 AM
LeBron and KLove if Kyrie shows up day 1:
https://media3.giphy.com/media/bOhNQ9FbRRgju/giphy.gif

Sorry I'm deep down the giphy hole.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 12:12 AM
upside is if this doesnt go through celtics dont get the raped.... down side... they might have to take a worse deal because IT gonna want out lol

No deal will happen, no one will want to trade for him.


I'd rather swing a deal for Middleton and Brogdon than have IT if his hip is really bad. Milwaukee already offered both plus a 1st round.

Going from a top 5 pick to a pick in the 20 something range is not a great deal. Bucks make the playoffs and go deep if they get Kyrie.

Plus is Middleton/Smith Brogdon/Rose Love and Thompson enough to convince LeBron to stay?

lakerfan85
08-26-2017, 12:22 AM
There goes the brinks truck...

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 12:23 AM
lmfao this is a win/win for me... either the deal goes through and the celtics take it without lube or it doesnt and they have to let IT walk for nothing and lose fultz

Dade County
08-26-2017, 12:24 AM
Danny... :bang:

IT... :silly: I'm gone *****es

Kyrie... :pity:

IT hip... :redcard:

Danny Ainga at scheduled press conference :hide:

Lbj... come here Kid :punish:

Boston fans... I want IT :catfight: I want Kyrie

This entire situation :moon:

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 12:38 AM
If I'm Cleveland, I don't do it if IT isn't healthy. You could always trade Kyrie midway and just see what happens. Not worth it. You'll be losing to the Warriors 100%.

KB24PG16
08-26-2017, 01:18 AM
boston has everything to lose with this deal being nixed. cant imagine IT and a tempered guy like crowder going back happily. cleveland prolly wants that pick badly, but according to boston fans its only a 6-8 pick, so maybe its not so bad :rolleyes:

KB24PG16
08-26-2017, 01:20 AM
This has happened before I can remember a tyson chandler trade being voided because of a toe injury

Dade County
08-26-2017, 01:33 AM
Maybe a 3rd team can step in, that might want IT.

Pistons, Clippers.

europagnpilgrim
08-26-2017, 01:51 AM
Both are from that show. Miranda Cosgrove and Jennette McCurdy both grew up to be really beautiful.

Tread carefully(assuming you are a male) on how you are quoting these so called Hollywood/tv show actresses are really beautiful because you could be looking at a transformer, just giving you the heads up but you can take it how you want

as for the topic on hand if this deal doesn't go through then Cleveland will be really sick now that the George/Bledsoe/Irving deal leaked and could have been made if Gilbert retained former GM, I would do that Milwaukee deal and call it a day if I were the Cavs since Bledsoe cant stay healthy for most part of his career even though I like his overall game more than that ROY in Milwaukee but being available is major, as we are seeing with the IT hip scenario

or they could just stand pat since that BK pick will at worst be 5th overall and at best top 2

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 01:55 AM
boston has everything to lose with this deal being nixed. cant imagine IT and a tempered guy like crowder going back happily. cleveland prolly wants that pick badly, but according to boston fans its only a 6-8 pick, so maybe its not so bad :rolleyes:

I feel bad for IT. Dude is getting paid pennies on the dollar and then this happens..

redsox12
08-26-2017, 01:59 AM
Two questions about a bucks deal?

1. How does a deal for Middleton/Brogdon help the Cavs now with the possibility of them getting Wade after a buyout?

2. How does a possible late draft pick, coming from the Bucks help the Cavs in the future?

The Nets pick helps the later and thats the most important thing the cavs are looking for since LeBron won't commit to staying.

Vinsanity115
08-26-2017, 02:18 AM
LMFAO if this whole deal ends up denied for hip reasons. :laugh2:

IT is upset with C's
Kyrie is upseet with Cavs

DraaaaamaaaHoly **** would this be epic.

If only something similar would have happened with Durants signing..

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aman_13
08-26-2017, 03:32 AM
This offseason keeps getting better and better.

Bostonjorge
08-26-2017, 03:37 AM
James leaves for sure if this trade don't happen.

That Brooklyn pick will be 1 or 2 in draft. This upcoming draft has 2 prime time players.

leprechaun5
08-26-2017, 04:00 AM
Cavs won't get better deal than this. I admit they would screw us if they void it but I can't imagine Danny and FO doing this type of deal without knowing for sure that IT injury isn't that serious. I love the trade for the Celtics, and I hope it gets done.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 04:35 AM
It's the off-season. I don't think it's a big deal, they just need headlines and click baits to keep the off-season moving and the conversation going. I think the trade will go through. Controversy sells.

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 06:09 AM
It's a stupid deal if IT isn't healthy. They'll lose in the Finals.. Really? Crowder+Zizic for Kyrie? Game over. That pick might help you but LeBron is definitely leaving if you're willing to sacrifice a year of his career for some unknown talent that if even successful, wouldn't have half the talent LeBron has..

jaydubb
08-26-2017, 06:23 AM
I actually totally called this..

Funny to actually see it play out tho

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PAOboston
08-26-2017, 07:17 AM
Cleveland knew about the hip injury and got the medical records before the trade was agreed upon. This is nothing more than Cleveland trying to get even more from the Cs. I think they've gone too far at this point to have the deal come apart. Still think the deal gets done.

Now we know why Ainge gave up the Brooklyn pick in this deal (IT's hip injury is bad). Cleveland won't get a better deal than what Boston offered. Boston overpayed because of the injury. Not sure what else Boston would include in a deal almost everyone said Cleveland had won.

ewing
08-26-2017, 07:19 AM
Dude really layed it out there last playoffs. No teeth, death in the family, busted hip. hope he has a full recovery and at this point i hope it goes through.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 08:06 AM
Woj said it. Thomas deal could be rescinded, which is a great redo for Boston since it gave up so much for Irving. Phoenix and Mil are front runners now if healthy players are the main focus.

Suns never were in the trade according to reports since Cavs wanted Jackson. Suns weren't giving Jackson up. So they didn't talk. Bucks already had Middleton, Brogdon and a first round pick on the table.

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 08:31 AM
Who would Milwaukee trade? Giannis? I can't see any legit offers for both sides in regards to an Irving trade.

Oakmont_4
08-26-2017, 08:32 AM
Suns never were in the trade according to reports since Cavs wanted Jackson. Suns weren't giving Jackson up. So they didn't talk. Bucks already had Middleton, Brogdon and a first round pick on the table.

It's a good offer by the Bucks. I just don't like the player fit with CLE roster as its constructed now. The pick is pretty meaningless (mid 20's pick).

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 08:42 AM
upside is if this doesnt go through celtics dont get the raped.... down side... they might have to take a worse deal because IT gonna want out lol

Except they didn't get raped, and the very thread you're in is a big reason why. Everyone knew the hip injury was a problem and IT was unlikely to repeat his performance from last year. I don't get your posts. :crazy:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 08:42 AM
Who would Milwaukee trade? Giannis? I can't see any legit offers for both sides in regards to an Irving trade.

Middleton, Brogdon, and a first round pick was our offer. Not many offers reported and Cavs want Irving gone before camp starts. Also reports Irving will be a no show to camp. Brogdon being ROY is a easy sell for Cavs fans. Middleton is easily a All Star in weak east. Yeah our pick in late teens or early 20's which isn't sexy. But that's the nature of the beast trading a pick as a playoff team. Suns weren't offering Jackson. So they didn't bother calling Cavs cause they know Cavs want Jackson.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 08:43 AM
Unless the physical is really bad the deal will still go through

Boston will just add a conditional late first round pick tied to how much IT plays

About what I would expect from a team run with an organized crime mentality...

Make a deal... act like a victim to the council (read Nba) ... extort more

TheDish87
08-26-2017, 08:53 AM
Cleveland knew about the hip injury and got the medical records before the trade was agreed upon. This is nothing more than Cleveland trying to get even more from the Cs. I think they've gone too far at this point to have the deal come apart. Still think the deal gets done.

Now we know why Ainge gave up the Brooklyn pick in this deal (IT's hip injury is bad). Cleveland won't get a better deal than what Boston offered. Boston overpayed because of the injury. Not sure what else Boston would include in a deal almost everyone said Cleveland had won.

knowing about the injury and having medicals isnt the same as failing an actual physical. in no way can the Cavs do this to try and get more from Boston, either the deal goes down or it doesnt. there is no such thing as the deal is too deep, its really as simple if IT cant pass a physical the Cavs back out.

Toronto Homer
08-26-2017, 08:59 AM
A player IT's size relies heavily on quickness and speed. A serious hip injury would limit his effectiveness a lot. It will have to be a pretty severe injury to cause the trade to be overturned though. Either Cleveland's doctors found something worse than expected during his physical, or this is all posturing to try to revamp the trade to get more out of the Celtics. We will find out soon which scenario is the case.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 09:05 AM
Or they could be teasing other teams to offer up more then deny the Celtics trade. Hope my Bucks don't offer up more. I don't even like a first round pick in the trade. All it would take is a Giannis injury and Bucks be lottery if Middleton and Brogdon and a pick in the deal. Cause Parker is out till February with injury. Irving couldn't get Cavs to playoffs alone. Sure wouldn't get Bucks in alone without Giannis.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 09:10 AM
Two questions about a bucks deal?

1. How does a deal for Middleton/Brogdon help the Cavs now with the possibility of them getting Wade after a buyout?

2. How does a possible late draft pick, coming from the Bucks help the Cavs in the future?

The Nets pick helps the later and thats the most important thing the cavs are looking for since LeBron won't commit to staying.

Middleton is a borderline all-star talent that can play defense and shoot, and is also 6'8. Brogdon was ROY and can do EVERYTHING - drive and finish, defend, shoot the 3, and pass. His ceiling is high.

Obviously the pick is worse but the players are BETTER if IT is seriously hurt with the hip injury.

If I were Cleveland I'd TRY to get more than what the Bucks offered, but ultimately it's not a bad deal.

I don't really care about LeBron staying or not at this point. I'd rather have Middleton + Brogdon + pick than Crowder + Nets pick, but that's just me.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 09:20 AM
Or get the deal to turn into a 3 team deal with a tank team eating injured IT. Maybe Suns would? Bledsoe and Nets pick and Crowder,Zizic to Cavs? Irving to Celtics yet. Maybe Cavs own pick to Suns and some other sweetener and salary fillers like Shumpert and IT?

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 09:48 AM
Or get the deal to turn into a 3 team deal with a tank team eating injured IT. Maybe Suns would? Bledsoe and Nets pick and Crowder,Zizic to Cavs? Irving to Celtics yet. Maybe Cavs own pick to Suns and some other sweetener and salary fillers like Shumpert and IT?

Yep. There's a number of possibilities.

I bet the Cavs hit the pause button and are trying to see if they can get MORE right now from Ainge or another team. Very smart if so.

If the Cavs can't get a better deal and the hip injury isn't career or season ending, they might just accept the deal and sit IT til December.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 09:53 AM
That hip injury could linger. Or he misses half the season and come's back and isn't the same and reinjures it and misses rest of season. Then LeBron be like this was a wasted year for me so trade me. This may be LeBron's last season or not. Either find a third team to eat injured IT or decline the deal and start over. But man IT and Crowder be ticked off going back to Boston. Then Ainge be like man this stinks. IT injured and no PG. I should of kept Fultz. hahahaah Also Crowder hated the Boston crowds chatting for Hayward. Bridges are burned. Nothing wrong with Irving going back cause Cavs will still trade him before camp starts.

prodigy
08-26-2017, 09:56 AM
I think if this trade is reclined it could be huge for the Cavs. Other teams would be a lot more serious and feel like they have a 2nd chance. I liked the trade for Cleveland but if IT is damaged goods then cavs gotta back out. Cavs have prob the best medical staff in the NBA so i trust them.

Lets say that the Cavs do indeed back out based upon the hip pointer. Does this damage Celtics rep around the league? that they tried to trade someone they knew was damaged? If im other GM's i would stay away from Danny ainge. Thats shady.

PAOboston
08-26-2017, 10:06 AM
knowing about the injury and having medicals isnt the same as failing an actual physical. in no way can the Cavs do this to try and get more from Boston, either the deal goes down or it doesnt. there is no such thing as the deal is too deep, its really as simple if IT cant pass a physical the Cavs back out.Of course there is. Both teams basically went on record saying the deal was agreed upon. Irving isn't showing up to Cavs camp. IT has hurt feelings. It would make for an awkward situation all the way around for both teams.

It's likely Cs just add some sort of future 1st rounder to get the deal done. It won't be anything significant (like a Tatum or Brown etc). Cleveland made the deal for the Brooklyn pick, not Crowder or IT. That's the asset (and reduction of salary) they wanted since LeBron is leaving next summer.

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Scoots
08-26-2017, 10:16 AM
I find it funny that people are saying it's good because the Celtics overpaid ... if IT is unable to play then it becomes a top 10 pick and Crowder for Kyrie ... how is that not a good deal for the Celtics? Then add to it that the Celtics don't have to deal with the PR nightmare that is not re-signing IT.

Oh well ... we are still in a mode of waiting to see what happens.

hugepatsfan
08-26-2017, 10:17 AM
If Boston needs to add more I think they have to. If IT's hip is truly so bad that it requires this then that pretty much eliminates re-signing him as an option. That means you need a long-term PG and I'd rather take Kyrie than gamble on the BRK pick or whatever other first we add on will be that.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 10:19 AM
Gilbert probably was like I goofed I want that Lakers pick cause they'll be worse then Nets. Gilbert either trying to extort more. Also a report LeBron and IT don't get along. Maybe LeBron is like how long will IT be out with injury? This could ruin his last run with Cavs before he may consider bolting next summer. Cavs should just take the deal and find another team willing to eat IT.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 10:25 AM
If Boston needs to add more I think they have to. If IT's hip is truly so bad that it requires this then that pretty much eliminates re-signing him as an option. That means you need a long-term PG and I'd rather take Kyrie than gamble on the BRK pick or whatever other first we add on will be that.

Gilbert probably loves the deal. Cause he gets the Nets pick. Even if IT is injured all year it will tick Lebron off and he may consider opening up his no trade clause to some teams later in the season if the **** hits the fan. But yeah LeBron probably could give two hoots about the Nets pick.

LeBron wants a win now piece for his last run. If IT's hip is really bad and could linger on even if he comes back. IT could regress since he counts on his speed. IT losing his speed wont be as good as before. So I bet its a bit of a argument between Gilbert thinking about the future and LeBron thinking about right now.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 10:27 AM
If i'm the Celtics I avoid trading Tatum. I would see if the Cavs bite on Brown.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 10:28 AM
LeBron wants a win now piece for his last run. If IT's hip is really bad and could linger on even if he comes back. IT could regress since he counts on his speed. IT losing his speed wont be as good as before. So I bet its a bit of a argument between Gilbert thinking about the future and LeBron thinking about right now.

It's not about what LeBron wants, it's about whats best for the future of the team.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 10:29 AM
I think if this trade is reclined it could be huge for the Cavs. Other teams would be a lot more serious and feel like they have a 2nd chance. I liked the trade for Cleveland but if IT is damaged goods then cavs gotta back out. Cavs have prob the best medical staff in the NBA so i trust them.

Lets say that the Cavs do indeed back out based upon the hip pointer. Does this damage Celtics rep around the league? that they tried to trade someone they knew was damaged? If im other GM's i would stay away from Danny ainge. Thats shady.

Everybody knew about the hip ... how could the Cavs claim that they didn't? It wasn't a concealed injury in any way.

j-bay
08-26-2017, 10:32 AM
It's not about what LeBron wants, it's about whats best for the future of the team.

This. The only way your beating the Warriors is with an Anthony Davis type player. There is no one like that. Lebron already has his foot out the door, and you hace a chance to get bailed out again

Scoots
08-26-2017, 10:34 AM
If i'm the Celtics I avoid trading Tatum. I would see if the Cavs bite on Brown.

Don't undervalue defense. Brown will likely never be the offensive player Tatum will be, but Brown's defense will also probably always be superior to Tatums.

I think Brown and Tatum are a great pair to play together since they are both smart and they have different strengths.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 10:35 AM
It's not about what LeBron wants, it's about whats best for the future of the team.

That's why Cavs expected offers were a bit greedy. They wanted the best of both worlds cause they think LeBron may bolt. So they want a win now piece as well as a young future asset for the future.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 10:37 AM
If i'm the Celtics I avoid trading Tatum. I would see if the Cavs bite on Brown.



Brown and Tatum is off limits.


This. The only way your beating the Warriors is with an Anthony Davis type player. There is no one like that. Lebron already has his foot out the door, and you hace a chance to get bailed out again

I don't think LeBron is out the door yet. He is going to wait and see what move CLE will make in the offseason. He wants the team to show a commitment to winning and the Cavs are reluctant to give away the future since LeBron is not fully committing. It's an awkward position.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 10:38 AM
Everybody knew about the hip ... how could the Cavs claim that they didn't? It wasn't a concealed injury in any way.

The Cav's knew...I think that they found out it's either worse than anticipated or it's degenerative.

WaDe03
08-26-2017, 10:39 AM
So Cleveland may get more assets to trade for a star, I like it.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 10:39 AM
Even if this trade still happens. Does Wade sign with Cavs after buyout? Cavs got Smith, Shumpert, Crowder and Korver and Rose and whatever else besides maybe Wade? Then LeBron probably starts at SF? Unless center Thompson is benched and Love slides over from PF to center then LeBron to PF. Seems like a log jam at the wings. Also Cavs had Shumpert on the trade block all summer.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 10:41 AM
Woj's latest tweet is CLE has not engaged BOS yet about the trade, so it's still an internal discussion. They are deciding amongst themselves to do the deal or not, it's not about asking more from BOS at this point.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 10:55 AM
Yep. There's a number of possibilities.

I bet the Cavs hit the pause button and are trying to see if they can get MORE right now from Ainge or another team. Very smart if so.

If the Cavs can't get a better deal and the hip injury isn't career or season ending, they might just accept the deal and sit IT til December.

Agreed... only risk is if they over play their hand... they must have a back up deal they think they can do if they play hardball

corky831
08-26-2017, 10:56 AM
If anything, the Celtics would add a future 1st, not the LAL/SAC pick, not Brown, and not Tatum. The Celtics knew IT's hip was bad, and with his contract coming up in a yr, it made sense for them to try and acquire a top 5-6 PG in the league whose only 25 yrs old than hope on drafting one. It was a smart business move by Boston. It has been public about ITs hip....Ainge and Stevens both are on record saying they were not sure if IT needed surgery or not, or if he would be ready for the season. To me, this is more of a LeBron concern, as he would want a healthy IT for his last season in CLE. I'm sure the CLE front office is fine with getting Crowder, a solid young C prospect, and a high lottery pick for Kyrie who wants out. This is most likely LeBron making a stink about IT not being ready for the season.....we all know how LeBron is and how he thinks he's the coach, the GM, the President, etc. Of the organization.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 10:59 AM
I think the deal will go through. The reason why the Celtics gave up the BK pick was insurance for Cleveland and Thomas, it only makes sense now. The media and sports talk want to conjure up anything to keep the ratings and conversation going. I don't think it's as big of a deal as it is. Take media reports with a grain of salt. Yeah it's from Woj, but even know he has to toe the line with espn with his articles (not tweets).

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 11:00 AM
Even if this trade still happens. Does Wade sign with Cavs after buyout? Cavs got Smith, Shumpert, Crowder and Korver and Rose and whatever else besides maybe Wade? Then LeBron probably starts at SF? Unless center Thompson is benched and Love slides over from PF to center then LeBron to PF. Seems like a log jam at the wings. Also Cavs had Shumpert on the trade block all summer.

Wade isn't worried about those guys... Cleveland will just move those guys for cap relief

It actually is a plus if they get wade because it makes it easier to move the other guys

warfelg
08-26-2017, 11:10 AM
Even if this trade still happens. Does Wade sign with Cavs after buyout? Cavs got Smith, Shumpert, Crowder and Korver and Rose and whatever else besides maybe Wade? Then LeBron probably starts at SF? Unless center Thompson is benched and Love slides over from PF to center then LeBron to PF. Seems like a log jam at the wings. Also Cavs had Shumpert on the trade block all summer.

I think Shump is traded for pennies on the dollar, maybe give up something small with him to get him out.

It hurts them quite a bit defensively, but I think they do that. IMO Wade should agree to come off the bench though.

?-Rose
Smith-Wade
Bron-RJeff
Love-Frye
TT-Warm Body

Doing that without the Boston trade.


Woj's latest tweet is CLE has not engaged BOS yet about the trade, so it's still an internal discussion. They are deciding amongst themselves to do the deal or not, it's not about asking more from BOS at this point.

What's going to happen is Cleveland will sit on it another day or two, Ainge will sweat, offer something like a late 1st or a pair of seconds in an attempt to sweeten the pot. Cleveland will end up taking it. It's all about compensating for how bad his hip is.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 11:16 AM
I think Shump is traded for pennies on the dollar, maybe give up something small with him to get him out.

It hurts them quite a bit defensively, but I think they do that. IMO Wade should agree to come off the bench though.

?-Rose
Smith-Wade
Bron-RJeff
Love-Frye
TT-Warm Body

Doing that without the Boston trade.



What's going to happen is Cleveland will sit on it another day or two, Ainge will sweat, offer something like a late 1st or a pair of seconds in an attempt to sweeten the pot. Cleveland will end up taking it. It's all about compensating for how bad his hip is.

Yep.

Ainge almost HAS to make this trade. IT doesn't seem happy at all with him, and if the Cavs void it and move on, IT's trade value will be SHOT.

It would be hilarious if the Cavs play hardball, gain an extra future 1st round (or something else), accept the trade, then be like, "Oh, IT's only gonna miss training camp and preseason. His hip isn't THAT bad."

Regardless, this is probably a good situation for Cleveland. Our medical staff is with Cleveland Clinic, one of the top health care systems in the country. We'll make a good decision here.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 11:17 AM
Wade isn't worried about those guys... Cleveland will just move those guys for cap relief

It actually is a plus if they get wade because it makes it easier to move the other guys

Agreed

corky831
08-26-2017, 11:20 AM
Now looking at the trade, and say if ITs hip is that bad, is it that big of a loss for the Celtics by acquiring Kyrie for Crowder, Zizic, and the BKL pick? Even if we add in a late 1st to sweeten it....the Cs would desperately need a PG for the future, and next yrs draft is filled with mostly big men at the top of the draft board....unless you are extremely sold on Collin Sexton and have the opportunity to draft him, doesnt this trade look more as a smart move on Bostons part than initial thoughts? Kyrie is prob the 4th or 5th best PG in the league, and the ones in front of him are not available (westbrook, Curry, Harden, maybe Wall).

corky831
08-26-2017, 11:23 AM
Yep.

Ainge almost HAS to make this trade. IT doesn't seem happy at all with him, and if the Cavs void it and move on, IT's trade value will be SHOT.

It would be hilarious if the Cavs play hardball, gain an extra future 1st round (or something else), accept the trade, then be like, "Oh, IT's only gonna miss training camp and preseason. His hip isn't THAT bad."

Regardless, this is probably a good situation for Cleveland. Our medical staff is with Cleveland Clinic, one of the top health care systems in the country. We'll make a good decision here.

Boston is right up there with Cleveland for health care. They're both top 5 in the nation.

WaDe03
08-26-2017, 11:27 AM
None of those guys really matter. Wade either steps in as a starter or 6th man either way.

IT/Rose
Smith/Wade
LeBron/Korver
Love/Crowder
TT/Zizic

Book it.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 11:30 AM
Let's do the trade with Thomas as filler to make salaries work.

BK Pick, Jae Crowder, Zizic and Filler for Kyrie

The value is still close to what Indy got for PG and the Bulls got for Butler.

Lavine is also injured (and miss half the year), and he is another volume scorer that is going to be overpaid. They got a 7th overall pick which is most likely lower then the BK pick but could be a wash. They also got Dunn, who could end up surprising. They also gave up a mid 1st to Minny.

I don't think the package is that bad even with an injury concerned Thomas.

To add more. Celtics got Kyrie to waive his kicker to save the Cavs money in luxury tax, which also gives the package Boston sent more value. In sum, even if Thomas is used as filler, that package is not as bad as people are assuming. Most thought the Celtics got swinddled, but it makes sense with all the information about Thomas' injury concerns now. Cavs' fans should not expect the Celtics to give up more. It's either take it or leave it, and I personallt think they already have their minds made up and the Cavs will keep the trade and risk it with IT.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 11:36 AM
Let's do the trade with Thomas as filler to make salaries work.

BK Pick, Jae Crowder, Zizic and Filler for Kyrie

The value is still close to what Indy got for PG and the Bulls got for Butler.

Lavine is also injured (and miss half the year), and he is another volume scorer that is going to be overpaid. They got a 7th overall pick which is most likely lower then the BK pick but could be a wash. They also got Dunn, who could end up surprising.

I don't think the package is that bad even with an injury concerned Thomas.

I agree, it's not HORRIBLE, but is it better than the Milwaukee deal?

Not to mention, Altman sorta has Ainge by the balls here. Crowder and IT are probably very disgruntled right now, and if the Cavs reputable medical staff void the trade and declare IT's hip is busted, then the C's won't be able to get any trade value out of him - at least not until he's healthy.

I also heard that Ainge really doesn't like the idea of pairing up Kyrie with Giannis, as that tandem could very well take over the East if LeBron heads West.

Altman has leverage to play these sides against each other - he can tell Ainge he needs more because of the hip injury and tell Milwaukee he needs a little more to convince him to void the deal and swing Irving to Miltown.

Passing on Fultz could come back to bite Ainge in the *** since he's left with the threat of a busted, disgruntled IT and almost had his future PG in Irving. It'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 11:38 AM
I agree, it's not HORRIBLE, but is it better than the Milwaukee deal?

Not to mention, Altman sorta has Ainge by the balls here. Crowder and IT are probably very disgruntled right now, and if the Cavs reputable medical staff void the trade and declare IT's hip is busted, then the C's won't be able to get any trade value out of him - at least not until he's healthy.

I also heard that Ainge really doesn't like the idea of pairing up Kyrie with Giannis, as that tandem could very well take over the East if LeBron heads West.

Altman has leverage to play these sides against each other - he can tell Ainge he needs more because of the hip injury and tell Milwaukee he needs a little more to convince him to void the deal and swing Irving to Miltown.

Passing on Fultz could come back to bite Ainge in the ***. It'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

To add more. Celtics got Kyrie to waive his kicker to save the Cavs money in luxury tax, which also gives the package Boston sent more value. In sum, even if Thomas is used as filler, that package is not as bad as people are assuming. Most thought the Celtics got swinddled, but it makes sense with all the information about Thomas' injury concerns now. Cavs' fans should not expect the Celtics to give up more. It's either take it or leave it, and I personally think they already have their minds made up and the Cavs will keep the trade and risk it with IT.

The media is just trying to stir the pot.

I don't think Ainge is too worried, he has assets galore even with the botched trade.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 11:38 AM
I agree, it's not HORRIBLE, but is it better than the Milwaukee deal?

Not to mention, Altman sorta has Ainge by the balls here. Crowder and IT are probably very disgruntled right now, and if the Cavs reputable medical staff void the trade and declare IT's hip is busted, then the C's won't be able to get any trade value out of him - at least not until he's healthy.

I also heard that Ainge really doesn't like the idea of pairing up Kyrie with Giannis, as that tandem could very well take over the East if LeBron heads West.

Altman has leverage to play these sides against each other - he can tell Ainge he needs more because of the hip injury and tell Milwaukee he needs a little more to convince him to void the deal and swing Irving to Miltown.

Passing on Fultz could come back to bite Ainge in the *** since he's left with the threat of a busted, disgruntled IT and almost had his future PG in Irving. It'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

At least you get it

It's a classic mob shakedown

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 11:43 AM
Annnnnd here we go. Sounds like Ainge might be willing to cough up more if Amico is right (hard to tell these days if reports are just blabbering or not):

https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/901426842766376960

https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/901446269226426371

I wonder just how severe his hip injury was. We all knew he had one, but Ainge n company were downplaying it and acting as if IT would only miss training camp and/or the very beginning of the season. If it's much worse, he'll give up more.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 11:57 AM
Annnnnd here we go. Sounds like Ainge might be willing to cough up more if Amico is right (hard to tell these days if reports are just blabbering or not):

https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/901426842766376960

https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/901446269226426371

I wonder just how severe his hip injury was. We all knew he had one, but Ainge n company were downplaying it and acting as if IT would only miss training camp and/or the very beginning of the season. If it's much worse, he'll give up more.

Interesting that they straight up say in the second tweet that a snafu was expected. So Ainge knew how bad it was when agreed to and let Cleveland find out on their own? Or did Ainge not know and say "let me know what it's like and we can rework"?

I know it's going to come off very Anti-Ainge, but that's kinda ****** either way. Either you were trying to screw over a rival team, or you didn't care enough about your player to know where he's really at health wise.

Philly Hammer
08-26-2017, 12:04 PM
IT hip is injured I hope Cleveland bleeds Boston dry lmfao!!!!!

Kyben36
08-26-2017, 12:04 PM
I may be the only one. but if the Cavs demand more picks because of the injury. as the Celtics. I think I back out and call their bluff. no team offered that much and I still think the Celtics overpaid and outbid themselves. tell them to **** off and find another deal. rumor is the bucks were the 2nd closest team and I don't see what they could offer better than what the Celtics did. unless you over rate Middleton and think that jabari Parker or thon maker are worth more than that nets pick

personally I think Crowder is worth more than Middleton and I would take that pick all day because of their questionable future.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 12:08 PM
I may be the only one. but if the Cavs demand more picks because of the injury. as the Celtics. I think I back out and call their bluff. no team offered that much and I still think the Celtics overpaid and outbid themselves. tell them to **** off and find another deal. rumor is the bucks were the 2nd closest team and I don't see what they could offer better than what the Celtics did. unless you over rate Middleton and think that jabari Parker or thon maker are worth more than that nets pick

personally I think Crowder is worth more than Middleton and I would take that pick all day because of their questionable future.

Ha, I wonder if that's something Ainge would do. Would be interesting to see.

I'm taking Middleton over Crowder 24/7 and twice on Sundays, though. And I'm high on Brogdon.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 12:09 PM
The Cav's knew...I think that they found out it's either worse than anticipated or it's degenerative.

Yes, but my point was it wasn't concealed by the Celtics. Claiming Ainge tried to hide it is just absurd.

If the Cavs kill the trade I have no doubt they will start talks again. My early reaction to the trade was that it was a good trade for the Celtics because they knew they HAD to move IT this offseason ... that hasn't changed, his value just may have gone down a little.

Kyben36
08-26-2017, 12:14 PM
Ha, I wonder if that's something Ainge would do. Would be interesting to see.

I'm taking Middleton over Crowder 24/7 and twice on Sundays, though. And I'm high on Brogdon.

I'm not higher on Brogdon than Zicic. both Euro players who played well there but have major questions here. surely I would take that pick from the nets in a draft that seams over loaded with guys redeclaring though.

as far as Crowder vs Middleton. Middleton pre injury yes. post injury. I didn't like what I saw from him.
.
I would actually put Middleton closer to the level of IT because of the questions about his injury.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 12:19 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901477945008685057

So they're definitely gonna re-evaluate the trade and discuss how to try to make it work. I'm cool with it. It just makes me wonder the extent of IT's injury and how bad it is.

Nikeman
08-26-2017, 12:25 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901477945008685057

So they're definitely gonna re-evaluate the trade and discuss how to try to make it work. I'm cool with it. It just makes me wonder the extent of IT's injury and how bad it is.

If I am the Cavs, I tell Boston to get Phoenix involved. Give Phoenix a player/pick and have Bledsoe sent to Cleveland.

Bledsoe/Crowder/BK pick/late celtics 1st to Cleveland

IT/Fillers/Picks to Phoenix

Kyrie to Boston

Cleveland gets an additional first, and they get a player less competent on offense but they will more than make up for it Bledsoe's defense

corky831
08-26-2017, 12:34 PM
I love how everyone in here hates on Ainge and the Celtics. Especially all the 76er fans....ya, the bucks are offering a better player package if IT is seriously injured, but they aren't getting a pick what Boston is offering.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:34 PM
Yes, but my point was it wasn't concealed by the Celtics. Claiming Ainge tried to hide it is just absurd.

If the Cavs kill the trade I have no doubt they will start talks again. My early reaction to the trade was that it was a good trade for the Celtics because they knew they HAD to move IT this offseason ... that hasn't changed, his value just may have gone down a little.

So either Ainge was trying to hide it or he was oblivious to how bad it was. Neither is a good look. There's about 10 GM's (current or former) would get ripped for doing this.

PAOboston
08-26-2017, 12:37 PM
Interesting that they straight up say in the second tweet that a snafu was expected. So Ainge knew how bad it was when agreed to and let Cleveland find out on their own? Or did Ainge not know and say "let me know what it's like and we can rework"?

I know it's going to come off very Anti-Ainge, but that's kinda ****** either way. Either you were trying to screw over a rival team, or you didn't care enough about your player to know where he's really at health wise.Ainge and Cs have been pretty up front about the IT injury for a while now. Ainge said a few weeks ago IT would likely not be ready for the season and even mentioned the injury playing a role in the trade yesterday.

This just might be a difference of medical staff opinions (rehab vs surgery etc).

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Heediot
08-26-2017, 12:37 PM
So either Ainge was trying to hide it or he was oblivious to how bad it was. Neither is a good look. There's about 10 GM's (current or former) would get ripped for doing this.

Let's see what happens. The media takes quotes and twists things up to stir up drama and get reads. It may or may not be true about what the Cavs are thinking. It's slow time for the nba, so they need their media cronies to keep things interesting.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:37 PM
I love how everyone in here hates on Ainge and the Celtics. Especially all the 76er fans....ya, the bucks are offering a better player package if IT is seriously injured, but they aren't getting a pick what Boston is offering.

I mean....either he mislead how injured IT was or was unaware of how bad it still was. I'm not sure how you spin that it's not a good look.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 12:39 PM
I may be the only one. but if the Cavs demand more picks because of the injury. as the Celtics. I think I back out and call their bluff. no team offered that much and I still think the Celtics overpaid and outbid themselves. tell them to **** off and find another deal. rumor is the bucks were the 2nd closest team and I don't see what they could offer better than what the Celtics did. unless you over rate Middleton and think that jabari Parker or thon maker are worth more than that nets pick

personally I think Crowder is worth more than Middleton and I would take that pick all day because of their questionable future.

I'd back out too if I were Ainge.

Cavs not going to get a package as good as this. Cavs also lose leverage if this trade is botched.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 12:42 PM
I'd back out too if I were Ainge.

Cavs not going to get a package as good as this. Cavs also lose leverage if this trade is botched.

How exactly do the Cavs lose leverage? There's about 24 other teams out there what would love to make a run at Kyrie.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 12:45 PM
I think this trade can work if Boston now would take on Shumpert's contract. It came out yesterday that Shump wants out, and the cavs have made no secret that they want to trade him.

New trade

CLE gets IT, Crowder, Zizic, 18 BYN pick, Smart, Morris

BOS gets Irving and Shump

ESPN trade machine accepts it. Cavs then have more cash to get Wade on the buyout.

CLE

SG Wade/Smith/Krover
PG IT (when healthy) Rose/Smart
SF LeBron/Crowder
PF Love/Morris/Jefferson
C Thompson/Fyre/Zizic

BOS

SG Shumpert
PG Irving/Rozier
SF Hayward/Tatum
PF Brown
C Horford

Heediot
08-26-2017, 12:46 PM
How exactly do the Cavs lose leverage? There's about 24 other teams out there what would love to make a run at Kyrie.

Yeah there were tonnes of teams after Butler and PG, and their packages were weak too.

Not too many teams have the assets and the check all the boxes for Kyrie in terms of destination. Kyrie also did Boston a favor with his trade kicker which helped save the Cavs money.

Boston is not as desperate for Kyrie as Cleveland is to get rid of Kyrie and the whole league knows that.

corky831
08-26-2017, 12:48 PM
How is Ainge trying to pull a fast one?? He is on record as saying they were concerned with ITs hip and were not sure if he would need surgery or not. Everyone has known this. It was not like the Celtics were trading a completely healthy IT and this randomly popped up in the medicals. There was severe inflammation in his hip, and the Celtics chose to take him out for the remainder of the ECFs. Again, I think this is more of LeBron making a stink about not having a healthy IT, compared to what CLE is actually getting for the future. Zizic would have been a lottery pick in this draft and they got a top 5 pick for next yr. The only one upset now is LeBron most likely. Cleveland shouldn't care though knowing he is almost certain to bolt after this yr.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 12:49 PM
I think this trade can work if Boston now would take on Shumpert's contract. It came out yesterday that Shump wants out, and the cavs have made no secret that they want to trade him.

New trade

CLE gets IT, Crowder, Zizic, 18 BYN pick, Smart, Morris

BOS gets Irving and Shump

ESPN trade machine accepts it. Cavs then have more cash to get Wade on the buyout.

CLE

SG Wade/Smith/Krover
PG IT (when healthy) Rose/Smart
SF LeBron/Crowder
PF Love/Morris/Jefferson
C Thompson/Fyre/Zizic

BOS

SG Shumpert
PG Irving/Rozier
SF Hayward/Tatum
PF Brown
C Horford

If Boston does that I lose respect for Ainge. Dude got played by the Cavs like a fiddle.

prodigy
08-26-2017, 12:49 PM
Cleveland made the deal for the Brooklyn pick, not Crowder or IT. That's the asset (and reduction of salary) they wanted since LeBron is leaving next summer.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

umm, they def made the trade for all pieces and players involved. Even if Lebron leaves next season Cavs will do everything they can to contend this year.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 12:55 PM
I'm really felling that this is now a ploy for CLE to get BOS to take Shump too.

Jamiecballer
08-26-2017, 12:58 PM
this is a blessing for the Celts. redo! selfishly as a raptors fan i want this to stick as is.

hugepatsfan
08-26-2017, 01:01 PM
CLE would do well with the MIL offer. Middleton and Brogden are good. The Nets pick gives them a head start on a rebuild of Lebron goes or a chip to get another STAR via trade so I do think that's the best piece offered but if IT is out or severely limited it's a huge short term loss in maybe their last year to compete for a while.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 01:06 PM
CLE would do well with the MIL offer. Middleton and Brogden are good. The Nets pick gives them a head start on a rebuild of Lebron goes or a chip to get another STAR via trade so I do think that's the best piece offered but if IT is out or severely limited it's a huge short term loss in maybe their last year to compete for a while.

Yeah I thought Middleton, Brogdon and a first was a nice pakcage relative to the PG/Jimmy/Cp3 packages (given the lack of leverage teams have over Star players). Boston package is crazy sweet even with an injured Thomas, Cavs shouldn't get greedy if reports are true.

hugepatsfan
08-26-2017, 01:12 PM
Yeah I thought Middleton, Brogdon and a first was a nice pakcage relative to the PG/Jimmy/Cp3 packages (given the lack of leverage teams have over Star players). Boston package is crazy sweet even with an injured Thomas, Cavs shouldn't get greedy if reports are true.

If IT is injured then this deal is a HUGE step back for CLE's immediate title hopes though. Maybe in total value it's still a good deal but they're a title contender for maybe the last year in a looooong time with Lebron maybe bolting. Tough to ignore that.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 01:16 PM
If IT is injured then this deal is a HUGE step back for CLE's immediate title hopes though. Maybe in total value it's still a good deal but they're a title contender for maybe the last year in a looooong time with Lebron maybe bolting. Tough to ignore that.

I think they were given transparency about IT, but that's just my assumption. What more can Boston really tell them? I think it's either the media trying to make a story out of nothing, or the Cavs bluffing. We will see though.

Balltime
08-26-2017, 01:16 PM
Celtic fans better start putting out those flames on those IT jerseys. :D

redsox12
08-26-2017, 01:16 PM
If IT is injured then this deal is a HUGE step back for CLE's immediate title hopes though. Maybe in total value it's still a good deal but they're a title contender for maybe the last year in a looooong time with Lebron maybe bolting. Tough to ignore that.

LeBron won't decide until after a few pieces fall in place, he will give CLE a chance to build a team he likes. If they can lure away Chris Paul, that can affect LeBron's decision.

CELTICS4LYFE
08-26-2017, 01:24 PM
This is just the first step of the Cavs trying to decrease IT value for that Max contract next summer lol

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 01:28 PM
I don't think Ainge was trying anything malicious, but there was definitely some uncertainty there.

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/901480789241507840

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 01:29 PM
I hope ainge backs out of this deal. Might be a blessing in disguise... let Irving go elsewhere. He's good but he doesn't put us over the top and we're not winning a title with or without him.

Save the nets pick for a larger package at the deadline or draft for a true superstar.

IT and crowder can suck it up. Crowder still has immense value and could fetch a mid first round pick alone. Let IT play out his contract and see how his hip looks and see if you can get him on a long term discounted deal and finally get him into a 6th man role to preserve his body..

PLEASE AINGE VOID THIS DEAL!!!!!!

ewing
08-26-2017, 01:30 PM
Annnnnd here we go. Sounds like Ainge might be willing to cough up more if Amico is right (hard to tell these days if reports are just blabbering or not):

https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/901426842766376960

https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/901446269226426371

I wonder just how severe his hip injury was. We all knew he had one, but Ainge n company were downplaying it and acting as if IT would only miss training camp and/or the very beginning of the season. If it's much worse, he'll give up more.

if its so bad why no surgery? or are they just realize now that he needs it?

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 01:37 PM
This deal dies if Thomas is injured excessively. The only reason this trade made sense for the Cavs is due to the short/long-term factors involved. You lose Thomas, you have no short-term. You effectively wasted a year of the best player in the NBA and he'll 100% leave when he sees this is the type of nonsense going on. If Boston is not willing to sweeten the deal and offer more, then Cavs should decline. Why should Cleveland take a huge risk by trading a top 15-20 player in the NBA for a player who might not be able to function properly? I think with the amount of progress and effort already put into this, Boston might just find a way to sweeten it. Maybe a three way trade could be in the works.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 01:39 PM
I hope ainge backs out of this deal. Might be a blessing in disguise... let Irving go elsewhere. He's good but he doesn't put us over the top and we're not winning a title with or without him.

Who do you envision as the long term PG for the Celtics?

Heediot
08-26-2017, 01:40 PM
This deal dies if Thomas is injured excessively. The only reason this trade made sense for the Cavs is due to the short/long-term factors involved. You lose Thomas, you have no short-term. You effectively wasted a year of the best player in the NBA and he'll 100% leave when he sees this is the type of nonsense going on. If Boston is not willing to sweeten the deal and offer more, then Cavs should decline. Why should Cleveland take a huge risk by trading a top 15-20 player in the NBA for a player who might not be able to function properly? I think with the amount of progress and effort already put into this, Boston might just find a way to sweeten it. Maybe a three way trade could be in the works.

I think Boston went as far as they are going to go. If Cavs don't like it, Boston isn't in a world of hurt with all their assets, whereas Cleveland has to find a taker for Kyrie with their lack of leverage (as Stars seem to have it over teams).

Chronz
08-26-2017, 01:44 PM
I may be the only one. but if the Cavs demand more picks because of the injury. as the Celtics. I think I back out and call their bluff. no team offered that much and I still think the Celtics overpaid and outbid themselves. tell them to **** off and find another deal. rumor is the bucks were the 2nd closest team and I don't see what they could offer better than what the Celtics did. unless you over rate Middleton and think that jabari Parker or thon maker are worth more than that nets pick

personally I think Crowder is worth more than Middleton and I would take that pick all day because of their questionable future.
Y crowda over midleston

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 01:44 PM
I think Boston went as far as they are going to go. If Cavs don't like it, Boston isn't in a world of hurt with all their assets, whereas Cleveland has to find a taker for Kyrie with their lack of leverage (as Stars seem to have it over teams).

I disagree with the lack of leverage. We've seen some weird moves come the trade deadline. What if Pelicans have a sucky year and are willing to let go of Cousins for Irving? It's still only a month since the report of Kyrie being unhappy surfaced. Teams have already made most of their moves and aren't ready to commit to a huge change yet. In any case, I think Boston is getting an absolute steal if IT is truly hurt. What are they going to do with IT in the playoffs if he is hurt and not 100%? Danny Ainge 100% knew IT was unhealthy. He said IT wouldn't be able to start the season but "should" be 100% soon. I knew the deal was too good to be true. Ainge held onto that pick like a child and wouldn't back off of it. Weird all of a sudden he was willing to make such a trade.

Chronz
08-26-2017, 01:45 PM
Who do you envision as the long term PG for the Celtics?
Dude is right Irving will never win again

eDush
08-26-2017, 01:47 PM
This deal dies if Thomas is injured excessively. The only reason this trade made sense for the Cavs is due to the short/long-term factors involved. You lose Thomas, you have no short-term. You effectively wasted a year of the best player in the NBA and he'll 100% leave when he sees this is the type of nonsense going on. If Boston is not willing to sweeten the deal and offer more, then Cavs should decline. Why should Cleveland take a huge risk by trading a top 15-20 player in the NBA for a player who might not be able to function properly? I think with the amount of progress and effort already put into this, Boston might just find a way to sweeten it. Maybe a three way trade could be in the works.I generally don't agree with you but I totally agree here that the C's must sweeten the deal by either tossing another top pick or Boston own top picks (low 1st) at the very least take Shrump off the hands in exchange for the coveted trade exception. Lebron will leave if they can't beat Boston in the playoffs and want compensation:nod:

It's about the C's misrepresented IT only needing rest to recover when he should have gotten surgery right after their season was over!
:mad:

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 01:57 PM
Who do you envision as the long term PG for the Celtics?

I'm fine rolling with smart and rozay and see how it develops. Like I said we're not winning a title with or without Irving next year.

PG is the deepest position BY FAR IN THE LEAGUE. You can find a middle of the pack PG for next to nothing if you want. Hell you could probably get a 12-15 PG for Crowder and a late 1st. A guy like Reggie Jackson or Bledsoe comes to mind.

GS isn't going anywhere next year, I'd rather just void this trade and give JB and Tatum a year of development and let the lakers/nets pick materialize.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 01:58 PM
I disagree with the lack of leverage. We've seen some weird moves come the trade deadline. What if Pelicans have a sucky year and are willing to let go of Cousins for Irving? It's still only a month since the report of Kyrie being unhappy surfaced. Teams have already made most of their moves and aren't ready to commit to a huge change yet. In any case, I think Boston is getting an absolute steal if IT is truly hurt. What are they going to do with IT in the playoffs if he is hurt and not 100%? Danny Ainge 100% knew IT was unhealthy. He said IT wouldn't be able to start the season but "should" be 100% soon. I knew the deal was too good to be true. Ainge held onto that pick like a child and wouldn't back off of it. Weird all of a sudden he was willing to make such a trade.

If the cavs don't take the deal I don't think Boston is crying over spilled milk. Boston is still in a good spot, that's the key thing to me in this. People expecting Boston to sweeten the deal further are dreaming. Can the vas conjure up leverage for Kyrie it's possible, can they get a better deal vs. Cousins/Paul/PG/Butler, yeah it's possible. I just don't expect the Celtics to cave in just because the Cavs are worried about IT.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 02:05 PM
People expecting Boston to sweeten the deal further are dreaming.

Then why are there multiple reports saying Ainge is ready to sweeten the deal? Why is Woj reporting that they will talk more about the deal today?

If Boston doesn't care then they'll tell Cleveland to accept it or void it. They'll say, "You guys are getting a great deal. Take it or leave it." Why are they inclined to talk about it at all?

I realize it's not great news for C's fans, but all signs are pointing towards Ainge offering more. Whether it's a good pick or player or trash, who knows?

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 02:06 PM
if CLE asks for anything more I'm out if I'm ainge. He gave up lopsided value in the original trade. Adding ANYTHING more to this trade is just straight up wrong.

The people in here saying ainge misrepresented ITs hip are so wrong. Hours after the trade AInge even said ITs hip was a factor is doing this trade and that he would likely be delayed to start the season as a result. He didn't hide ****, just people looking for a reason to be anti ainge again.

I haven't liked any of ainges moves this off season and think he's had a terrible off season minus the Hayward signing, but even that didn't come without warts.. I.e. The Bradley trade. I have been critical with ainge all off season including this trade as he gave up FAR too much for Irving, but saying that ainge misrepresented ITs hip and just flat out wrong, that's actually one of few things ainge did correctly this off season.

Kyben36
08-26-2017, 02:09 PM
Y crowda over midleston

post injury he was a non factor in the playoffs.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 02:11 PM
if CLE asks for anything more I'm out if I'm ainge. He gave up lopsided value in the original trade. Adding ANYTHING more to this trade is just straight up wrong.

The people in here saying ainge misrepresented ITs hip are so wrong. Hours after the trade AInge even said ITs hip was a factor is doing this trade and that he would likely be delayed to start the season as a result. He didn't hide ****, just people looking for a reason to be anti ainge again.

I haven't liked any of ainges moves this off season and think he's had a terrible off season minus the Hayward signing, but even that didn't come without warts.. I.e. The Bradley trade. I have been critical with ainge all off season including this trade as he gave up FAR too much for Irving, but saying that ainge misrepresented ITs hip and just flat out wrong, that's actually one of few things ainge did correctly this off season.

I bolded a couple points here:

Ainge's implication was that IT was hurt, but not badly hurt. That's why he used "delayed start to the season" and "should be 100% soon". It could simply be a disagreement between the BOS/CLE medical staffs, but if IT's torn hip labral requires surgery, that could knock him out for most if not all of the year.

That's not the kind of value the Cavs expected to get out of IT. I mean, it's entirely possible he could be traded to the Cavs, never walk onto the court, then leave in the next offseason. That would definitely be a complete misrepresentation of IT's injury from Ainge. We don't know if it was on purpose or not (I would hope not), but that would be the case.

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 02:13 PM
Then why are there multiple reports saying Ainge is ready to sweeten the deal? Why is Woj reporting that they will talk more about the deal today?

If Boston doesn't care then they'll tell Cleveland to accept it or void it. They'll say, "You guys are getting a great deal. Take it or leave it." Why are they inclined to talk about it at all?

I realize it's not great news for C's fans, but all signs are pointing towards Ainge offering more. Whether it's a good pick or player or trash, who knows?

There are multiple reports because Gilbert got cold feet when Lebron told him this trade doesn't help him with THIS YEAR. Be honest to yourself.

Your right Boston DOESNT CARE. We got hosed on the original deal, why would we offer more? CLE can ask if they want doesn't mean it's happening, go take the MIL deal, I'm fine with it... we don't NEED Irving, he hardly moves the needle next year... his value is in the long term...

If ainge offers more that's horrible. He made a badddd trade to begin with, if he sweetens it then I'll add it to the list of **** moves he's made all off season starting with not taking Fultz all the way to trading for an overrated barely top 5 PG

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:16 PM
I'm fine rolling with smart and rozay and see how it develops. Like I said we're not winning a title with or without Irving next year.

I'm not comfortable with Smart or Rozier long term, and Smart only has one year left after this year so same boat next year.


PG is the deepest position BY FAR IN THE LEAGUE. You can find a middle of the pack PG for next to nothing if you want. Hell you could probably get a 12-15 PG for Crowder and a late 1st. A guy like Reggie Jackson or Bledsoe comes to mind.

That's still a major downgrade from Irving. You picked two guys getting replaced by younger players, so it shows how effect they was in their careers at this point. Just about all the major players in this day have a great point guard.



GS isn't going anywhere next year, I'd rather just void this trade and give JB and Tatum a year of development and let the lakers/nets pick materialize.

What if (god forbid) one of GS big four tears a ACL and misses the season? They would change alot, even just winning the east is a accomplishment.

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 02:18 PM
I bolded a couple points here:

Ainge's implication was that IT was hurt, but not badly hurt. That's why he used "delayed start to the season" and "should be 100% soon". It could simply be a disagreement between the BOS/CLE medical staffs, but if IT's torn hip labral requires surgery, that could knock him out for most if not all of the year.

That's not the kind of value the Cavs expected to get out of IT. I mean, it's entirely possible he could be traded to the Cavs, never walk onto the court, then leave in the next offseason. That would definitely be a complete misrepresentation of IT's injury from Ainge. We don't know if it was on purpose or not (I would hope not), but that would be the case.

Where did ainge ever say "should be 100% soon"

I have never seen this?

If IT NEEDED surgery he would have had it one month after the season when they re evaluated it after the swelling went down.

There have been multiple reports regarding ITs hip since it occurred. All of them have indicated he did not need surgery. I'm not sure why this would have all of the sudden change?

Heediot
08-26-2017, 02:19 PM
Then why are there multiple reports saying Ainge is ready to sweeten the deal? Why is Woj reporting that they will talk more about the deal today?

If Boston doesn't care then they'll tell Cleveland to accept it or void it. They'll say, "You guys are getting a great deal. Take it or leave it." Why are they inclined to talk about it at all?

I realize it's not great news for C's fans, but all signs are pointing towards Ainge offering more. Whether it's a good pick or player or trash, who knows?

I'll stand by my assumptions. Will Ainge talk to the Cavs? of course he will, that's part of doing business as a personnel guy. I don't think he caves in though. The reports saying that he is ready to sweeten the deal, are what they are and could be true. Bug I personally think the media is stretching things out of context. I'll eat crow if Boston gives more and be the first to admit guilt.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:20 PM
That's not the kind of value the Cavs expected to get out of IT. I mean, it's entirely possible he could be traded to the Cavs, never walk onto the court, then leave in the next offseason. That would definitely be a complete misrepresentation of IT's injury from Ainge. We don't know if it was on purpose or not (I would hope not), but that would be the case.

Possibly, but the Nets pick is the big trading point, and losing that would be devastating for the cavs. Based on the timing of yestersday's news, I really see this as CLE opportunity to unload Shump on BOS.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 02:20 PM
There are multiple reports because Gilbert got cold feet when Lebron told him this trade doesn't help him with THIS YEAR. Be honest to yourself.

So now you're just making up ****? Why would Gilbert get cold feet when he'd be saving nearly 30 million? Gilbert/Cavs apparently don't like what they see from the medical report. Why is this so hard?



Your right Boston DOESNT CARE. We got hosed on the original deal, why would we offer more? CLE can ask if they want doesn't mean it's happening, go take the MIL deal, I'm fine with it... we don't NEED Irving, he hardly moves the needle next year... his value is in the long term...


Eh, now you're just arguing out of emotion. You don't WANT Boston to care. Ainge (according to Woj) doesn't seem to share your sentiments and wants to talk about it.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 02:26 PM
Where did ainge ever say "should be 100% soon"

I have never seen this?

If IT NEEDED surgery he would have had it one month after the season when they re evaluated it after the swelling went down.

There have been multiple reports regarding ITs hip since it occurred. All of them have indicated he did not need surgery. I'm not sure why this would have all of the sudden change?

I'll quote Ainge: “There’s going to be probably a little bit of a delay for Isaiah as he starts the season this year, but – um – I think that Isaiah should be fine and healthy as the season goes along.”

I stand corrected on "being 100% soon", but he definitely said he should be fine and healthy as the season goes along. My point is: If IT needs surgery (and a torn hip labral could potentially put him out for the season), then Ainge's words were indeed a misrepresentation of IT's injury.


If IT NEEDED surgery he would have had it one month after the season when they re evaluated it after the swelling went down.

His type of injury doesn't NEED surgery, but it's something to be considered. If he doesn't get surgery, he'll be in pain and discomfort and need a ton of rest and rehabilitation, all of which could be flushed down the drain if he ever falls on that hip.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 02:28 PM
Possibly, but the Nets pick is the big trading point, and losing that would be devastating for the cavs. Based on the timing of yestersday's news, I really see this as CLE opportunity to unload Shump on BOS.

It's definitely a key factor and the Cavs want it pretty badly. But they also want to compete for a championship short-term and entertain the possibility of keeping LeBron, and giving away Irving for essentially Crowder + Zizic (if IT misses the year) would not bode well for that.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:29 PM
I stand corrected on "being 100% soon", but he definitely said he should be fine and healthy as the season goes along. My point is: If IT needs surgery (and a torn hip labral could potentially put him out for the season), then Ainge's words were indeed a misrepresentation of IT's injury.


If IT's hip was that bad, this trade would already be voided.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 02:30 PM
Possibly, but the Nets pick is the big trading point, and losing that would be devastating for the cavs. Based on the timing of yestersday's news, I really see this as CLE opportunity to unload Shump on BOS.

Can they even do that without matching salaries? I don't think they can.

Chronz
08-26-2017, 02:31 PM
post injury he was a non factor in the playoffs.
So you think he was in shape and100? If yes, were done. If not, isn't impressive how much WINNING goes on once he got back at OBVIOUSLY less than100?

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:33 PM
It's definitely a key factor and the Cavs want it pretty badly. But they also want to compete for a championship short-term and entertain the possibility of keeping LeBron, and giving away Irving for essentially Crowder + Zizic (if IT misses the year) would not bode well for that.

Woj has said on his reports and on his podcast that the biggest factor they was looking for was a long term asset because LeBron will not commit to CLE. They have to plan ahead like LeBron is leaving until he says otherwise, which is why the Nets pick was the key factor.

If winning now was the biggest factor, they would just do a Irving/Melo swap and it would be a easy trade to make. CLE wants long term assest's for Irving and Boston's Nets pick is the best one out there.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:34 PM
Can they even do that without matching salaries? I don't think they can.

ESPN's trade machine accepted Shump on BOS if BOS sends Smart and Marcus Morris to CLE.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 02:36 PM
Best to flip IT to tanking team like the Suns. I mentioned that like on page 2 or 3. LeBron wants Bledsoe anyway. Even though Knight is out entire season as well. Not sure what PG Suns go with then. But then I bet Suns want a sweetener to eat damaged goods of IT. So Cavs probably have to cough up their own pick. Not sure Suns wanna part with Bledsoe just yet. Ulis may not be ready yet.

IT's game is based on speed. If his hip is a goner. His stock is nothing even on that cheap contract. He wont be fetching what he wanted. Bet IT will have to take a huge discount. Cavs had two teams interested in Shumpert but they backed out. So I bet Cavs wanna dump Shumpert or somebody yet. Bucks could flip Delly or Henson to Cavs for Shumpert if need be as a third or forth team to facilitate.

I prefer the Bucks to opt out if Cavs decline Celtics and talks are off. I wouldn't wanna see Irving and Parker in February when Parker is back. The defense would slip. Brogdon and Middleton are good defenders that can hit the 3 as well. Also if Bucks get a key injury to like Giannis our own so called yucky pick could turn into gravy lottery pick pretty quickly with injuries.

Heck maybe Cavs want IT scrapped from the trade entirely and rework the whole deal with something else. Maybe Horford and two of Celtics own picks and maybe Crowder yet for the likes of Irving and Shumpert and Frye? Cavs go big? Celtics may say no. But i'd be quick to unload Horford. Also seems Ainge isn't willing to part with Tatum.

So if IT is off the trade. Then its Crowder and Nets pick and Zizic. What other salary fillers? But a healthy IT had great value. Injured messes up the whole deal. Well at least how Cavs want youth and win now as in best of both worlds if LeBron bolts next summer.

Got to thinking though. Doubt Cavs take Horford. Since Cavs got Love and Thompson paid well. Unless Cavs have another deal of Thompson and picks sent else where for a big name yet as well. Maybe Thompson and picks for Bledsoe? LeBron gets his buddy. Also Cavs get win now pieces to maybe get LeBron to stay. Even if LeBron bolts summer 2018 a line up of Bledsoe,Smith,Shumpert,Love, Horford in the east is playoffs.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 02:37 PM
ESPN's trade machine accepted Shump on BOS if BOS sends Smart and Marcus Morris to CLE.

That deal is HORRIFIC for Boston even with my Smart/Morris dislike. All the sudden Boston creates massive holes just to fill a perceived need?

j-bay
08-26-2017, 02:39 PM
Best to flip IT to tanking team like the Suns. I mentioned that like on page 2 or 3. LeBron wants Bledsoe anyway. Even though Knight is out entire season as well. Not sure what PG Suns go with then. But then I bet Suns want a sweetener to eat damaged goods of IT. So Cavs probably have to cough up their own pick. Not sure Suns wanna part with Bledsoe just yet. Ulis may not be ready yet.

IT's game is based on speed. If his hip is a goner. His stock is nothing even on that cheap contract. He wont be fetching what he wanted. Bet IT will have to take a huge discount. Cavs had two teams interested in Shumpert but they backed out. So I bet Cavs wanna dump Shumpert or somebody yet. Bucks could flip Delly or Henson to Cavs for Shumpert if need be as a third or forth team to facilitate.

I prefer the Bucks to opt out if Cavs decline Celtics and talks are off. I wouldn't wanna see Irving and Parker in February when Parker is back. The defense would slip. Brogdon and Middleton are good defenders that can hit the 3 as well. Also if Bucks get a key injury to like Giannis our own so called yucky pick could turn into gravy lottery pick pretty quickly with injuries.

Heck maybe Cavs want IT scrapped from the trade entirely and rework the whole deal with something else. Maybe Horford and two of Celtics own picks and maybe Crowder yet for the likes of Irving and Shumpert and Frye? Cavs go big? Celtics may say no. But i'd be quick to unload Horford. Also seems Ainge isn't willing to part with Tatum.

So if IT is off the trade. Then its Crowder and Nets pick and Zizic. What other salary fillers? But a healthy IT had great value. Injured messes up the whole deal. Well at least how Cavs want youth and win now as in best of both worlds if LeBron bolts next summer.

Got to thinking though. Doubt Cavs take Horford. Since Cavs got Love and Thompson paid well. Unless Cavs have another deal of Thompson and picks sent else where for a big name yet as well. Maybe Thompson and picks for Bledsoe? LeBron gets his buddy. Also Cavs get win now pieces to maybe get LeBron to stay. Even if LeBron bolts summer 2018 a line up of Bledsoe,Smith,Shumpert,Love, Horford in the east is playoffs.

It would be the NBA's worse nightmare if Kyrie goes West.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 02:44 PM
That deal is HORRIFIC for Boston even with my Smart/Morris dislike. All the sudden Boston creates massive holes just to fill a perceived need?

Trade also works for Morris and Guerschon Yabusele

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 02:46 PM
post injury he was a non factor in the playoffs.


Middleton was gassed by the time playoffs rolled around. Also Parker was done for the year with injury first game Middleton was back. Also Bucks made the playoffs with two rookies as starters as in Brogdon ROY and Maker. Missing key pieces as in Middleton out first half of the season and Parker out second half of the season and we still stagger into playoffs with two rookies as 6th seed isn't nothing to sniff at. But yeah I would prefer 2015-2016 season of Middleton. But still Middleton over Crowder. Crowder does have the cheap contract but his defense slipped a bit.

FlashBolt
08-26-2017, 03:34 PM
I think Isaiah took a gamble and didn't opt for surgery because he wanted to make it seem as if it wasn't as huge of a deal as per affecting his contract value. I find it distasteful. Dude should have gotten surgery. Who the hell wants to take the risk of him potentially conflicting that hip again - especially when he majorly uses his hips to torque his body and get past defenders?

Bostonjorge
08-26-2017, 03:40 PM
The Brooklyn pick is not guaranteed #1 but with that said. They will have a 25% chance at number #1 and over a 50% at least top 2 pick. 50% odds is the best gambling odds your going to get. The top 2 picks are all star players. James can dangle that player to try and get a proven star to win now. If James leaves then Cavs can rebuild with the rookie.

Isiah is a great player. Unless he's out for the season, he's woth the wait.

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 03:46 PM
If I'm Ainge the only way I rework this deal is subtract IT and give them smart and yabs instead otherwise void the deal

warfelg
08-26-2017, 03:47 PM
I think Isaiah took a gamble and didn't opt for surgery because he wanted to make it seem as if it wasn't as huge of a deal as per affecting his contract value. I find it distasteful. Dude should have gotten surgery. Who the hell wants to take the risk of him potentially conflicting that hip again - especially when he majorly uses his hips to torque his body and get past defenders?

You find it distasteful that a guy rather not have surgery?

Was it distasteful when Payne didn't get surgery and was back last year, but tasteful that Simmons got surgery for the same injury and missed the year?

warfelg
08-26-2017, 03:48 PM
If I'm Ainge the only way I rework this deal is subtract IT and give them smart and yabs instead otherwise void the deal

Cleveland would laugh so hard at that. In fact I laugh at this. "Hey the guy was hurt, so we're going to take out the centerpiece player and replace it with two guys that are worse." lol

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 03:50 PM
I mean....either he mislead how injured IT was or was unaware of how bad it still was. I'm not sure how you spin that it's not a good look.

Or he was completely honest but the Cavs still accepted the trade thinking/hoping he would pass his physical. I love how you try to find the worst possible reason when the most likely one is right in front of you.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 03:54 PM
Or he was completely honest but the Cavs still accepted the trade thinking/hoping he would pass his physical. I love how you try to find the worst possible reason when the most likely one is right in front of you.

this could have actually happened... the cavs just want to rape without lube and want even more. Its already a rape scene... if i am cleveland i bend them over and move on.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 03:55 PM
If I'm Ainge the only way I rework this deal is subtract IT and give them smart and yabs instead otherwise void the deal

Yeah something like that if it has to be re-worked. Don't cave in for more within the players involved for the current deal.

corky831
08-26-2017, 04:08 PM
I understand why the hate for most of these non-celtics fans: a young core of Irving, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, LAL/SAC pick, along with Yabusele should dominate the East for years to come.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 04:14 PM
I suggested reworking the deal without IT. I mentioned Horford but Cavs have Love and Thompson. Yeah either could be dealt for another win now piece. But I think Cavs still want Nets pick and win now pieces. Best interests is to send IT to a tanking third team for a win now piece. Few of us mentioned IT to Suns and Bledsoe and Nets pick to Cavs. That's still best of both worlds. Not sure if Crowder or Zizc be still in the deal or not.

Also LeBron gets a buddy in Bledsoe. Doubt Cavs want Smart. Doubt Ainge parts with Tatum. He probably wants to keep Brown as well. Not sure what else Celtics trade. If Cavs get to greedy they lose a trading partner if they revoke the trade. Heck my Bucks could play hard to get then if they call us back after this deal falls apart. I'd laugh if we give less then. I'd personally drop Brogdon out of the trade. Middleton and a pick or no deal. I'm pulling a move like Kevin Costner did on Game day. Turn the tables.

Suns may consider not to help facilitate a deal as well. Since they wanted Irving but Cavs got greedy and wanted Jackson as well. Celtics maybe need a third team to take on IT. But to get the value of a healthy IT and dealing a injured one and getting the good value be tough. Also if he misses entire year. Boy oh boy. If I was Ainge id cut the deal if Gilbert/LeBron asking for more. I'd stand fast and say no thanks. Celtics still can flip that offer or even less for another win now piece.


I was also gonna tinker around with ESPN trade machine but they already got the guys on the new teams already. Also I bet NBA2K18 is like hurry up man our cover man Irving still has a Cavs jersey then maybe a Celtics jersey and maybe back to Cavs or end up a Buck or who knows. haha ahahah

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-26-2017, 04:29 PM
Actually why not just accept the damn deal. Then call Suns up for a Love/Bledsoe as the main pieces for a trade? I think Suns had some interests in Love? Cavs can keep IT on the shelf till he's 110% ready which could be playoffs or next year. They still have Crowder and Nets pick. Win win for Gilbert and LeBron. Cavs could make it bigger and add Shumpert and Frye and get Chandler back from Suns as well.

Bledsoe,Smith,Crowder,LeBron,Thompson. Cavs could still tinker around and trade their very own pick and or Shumpert and many other bench pieces or even Thompson for a upgrade. Was checking Love's and Bledsoe salaries. Deal would have to be somewhat like Bledsoe and Chandler for Love and Frye and maybe Felder. Salaries wise. Just spit balling here.

Vee-Rex
08-26-2017, 04:57 PM
Actually why not just accept the damn deal. Then call Suns up for a Love/Bledsoe as the main pieces for a trade? I think Suns had some interests in Love? Cavs can keep IT on the shelf till he's 110% ready which could be playoffs or next year. They still have Crowder and Nets pick. Win win for Gilbert and LeBron. Cavs could make it bigger and add Shumpert and Frye and get Chandler back from Suns as well.

Bledsoe,Smith,Crowder,LeBron,Thompson. Cavs could still tinker around and trade their very own pick and or Shumpert and many other bench pieces or even Thompson for a upgrade. Was checking Love's and Bledsoe salaries. Deal would have to be somewhat like Bledsoe and Chandler for Love and Frye and maybe Felder. Salaries wise. Just spit balling here.

I'm guessing that the Cavs are on the phone with other teams right now trying to figure out what deals can be made should they void or accept this Celtics deal.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 05:01 PM
Or he was completely honest but the Cavs still accepted the trade thinking/hoping he would pass his physical. I love how you try to find the worst possible reason when the most likely one is right in front of you.

Or all you Celtics fans see "Ainge" and "Bad" in the same sentence and don't read it all the way through.

If the Cavs found out he was injured worse than he was, good catch by them. And if Ainge didn't know how bad it was....teams will be more prudent in trading and really check out the medicals.

There is 0 wrong in suggesting that the Cavs saw the hip as worse than thought and Ainge didn't know.

At least for Ainge's sake they didn't go through with the trade, accuse Ainge of misinforming them on IT's health, then have the NBA hit you with a $2mil fine for it.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 05:10 PM
I'm guessing that the Cavs are on the phone with other teams right now trying to figure out what deals can be made should they void or accept this Celtics deal.

I wouldn't be shocked if they call Boston first, give them through the morning to come up with something that works, then start calling other teams.

Really wouldn't shock me if the idea here is to get them a 2nd PG in the deal so tide them over until IT is back.

M.L.G.A.
08-26-2017, 05:17 PM
OK listen you bunch of rooks...

The deal was obviously dependent on Cavs evaluation of his hip. And it is also obvious that Cavs would go back to the Cs to ask for more assets regardless of how they evaluated IT's hip; it's part of the negotiations game. I mean Ainge even came out and said his hip was part of the reason they traded IT the day after the trade so there were no surprises to anyone.

Cs CANNOT accept IT back on their team now as though nothing happened; they have to deal IT either with this trade or a future trade. No player with any sort of dignity would want to play for a team that just traded him. The Cavs put the Cs in a bind; really smart negotiation ploy by the Cavs. Cs will most likely throw in one of their picks (most likely a pick in the 20s) or the Clips/Grizz picks (both heavily protected in the teens).

-Make the LAKERS GREAT AGAIN!!!

Heediot
08-26-2017, 05:56 PM
OK listen you bunch of rooks...

The deal was obviously dependent on Cavs evaluation of his hip. And it is also obvious that Cavs would go back to the Cs to ask for more assets regardless of how they evaluated IT's hip; it's part of the negotiations game. I mean Ainge even came out and said his hip was part of the reason they traded IT the day after the trade so there were no surprises to anyone.

Cs CANNOT accept IT back on their team now as though nothing happened; they have to deal IT either with this trade or a future trade. No player with any sort of dignity would want to play for a team that just traded him. The Cavs put the Cs in a bind; really smart negotiation ploy by the Cavs. Cs will most likely throw in one of their picks (most likely a pick in the 20s) or the Clips/Grizz picks (both heavily protected in the teens).

-Make the LAKERS GREAT AGAIN!!!

Most Lost Goof Around

Celtics can find takers for IT and Crowder. IT is forced to play this year due to it being a contract year. If IT wants to get his Max he has to show health and performance. If he likes it or not he'll have to perform for the Celtics or Cavs or whomever for that money. Celtics can build his stock if he is unhappy then ship his *** out. If he is injured then yeah his stock would plummet a bit. Crowder is a pro and its in his nature to play hard. Guys like him are always wanted via trade especially at his price. I don't think the Celtics are forced to do anything. Cavs are the more desperate team to rid of Kyrie and to build a team that can entice James to re-sign.They also have to think about a future without James too, so it's a complicated dynamic for them.

daleja424
08-26-2017, 06:08 PM
Man I hope this gets completely blown up by Ainge...

1) Cavs will have to give Kyrie away now... this costs them leverage. Love seeing Gilbert bent over a barrel.

2) Celtics fans just flipped flopped so hard on Kyrie and now they will have to flip flop again.

3) Ruins the Celtics chemistry and makes them ONCE AGAIN a laughing stock.



...for the shear entertainment value I hope Cleveland renegs and I hope there is bad blood.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 06:30 PM
To all the people saying they hope Ainge reneges on the deal.....what motivation does he have? He's the one that wants the best player in the deal. If at all Cleveland is the one with motivation to renege on the deal.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 06:47 PM
To all the people saying they hope Ainge reneges on the deal.....what motivation does he have? He's the one that wants the best player in the deal. If at all Cleveland is the one with motivation to renege on the deal.

lol if boston were to renege on the deal they would be digging their own grave... Nobody and I mean nobody will trade for IT after this... They would be stuck with him and either have to pay him or lose him for nothing while not getting kyrie... its amazing... Boston is quite literally in a horrible position.

corky831
08-26-2017, 06:50 PM
Lol so many Celtic haters on here, I love it.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 06:53 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/hall-of-famer-isiah-thomas-says-trade-left-isaiah-thomas-emotionally-wounded-480455.html

:laugh:

celtics better pray to a higher power right now that the cavs accept.

homie564
08-26-2017, 06:53 PM
Woj says that Cleveland is going to look for further compensation before finalizing the trade. Wonder what the word is on ITs hip... must be pretty bad


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PAOboston
08-26-2017, 06:59 PM
Woj says that Cleveland is going to look for further compensation before finalizing the trade. Wonder what the word is on ITs hip... must be pretty bad


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey knew how bad the hip was. They are just using it as an excuse now to get an extra pick from the Cs.

The deal will get done. Both teams have crossed the line of no return in regards to player circumstances etc.

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More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:01 PM
They knew how bad the hip was. They are just using it as an excuse now to get an extra pick from the Cs.

The deal will get done. Both teams have crossed the line of no return in regards to player circumstances etc.

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how can they know how bad something actually is until they do the physical? Who knows you may very well be right but it could also be a little more severe than they thought.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:02 PM
Or all you Celtics fans see "Ainge" and "Bad" in the same sentence and don't read it all the way through.

If the Cavs found out he was injured worse than he was, good catch by them. And if Ainge didn't know how bad it was....teams will be more prudent in trading and really check out the medicals.

There is 0 wrong in suggesting that the Cavs saw the hip as worse than thought and Ainge didn't know.

At least for Ainge's sake they didn't go through with the trade, accuse Ainge of misinforming them on IT's health, then have the NBA hit you with a $2mil fine for it.

I read it. You 76'ers fans just illogically hate him. How quickly and successfully he's been able to rebuild is truly amazing. Yet everything he does you guys hate and rant about. I will admit it's entertaining, but also a little silly.

If Ainge was told by the team doctors how IT's hip was, and that's what he told the Cavs, what's the problem? The Cavs have their own doctors and may go about things a different way. You just want to find any possible way to slander Ainge and it's pathetic.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:04 PM
I read it. You 76'ers fans just illogically hate him. How quickly and successfully he's been able to rebuild is truly amazing. Yet everything he does you guys hate and rant about. I will admit it's entertaining, but also a little silly.

If Ainge was told by the team doctors how IT's hip was, and that's what he told the Cavs, what's the problem? The Cavs have their own doctors and may go about things a different way. You just want to find any possible way to slander Ainge and it's pathetic.


are we also forcing him to give up the moon for a similar player to what he is giving away? Na thats right its a good deal now because ainge :laugh:

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:05 PM
Man I hope this gets completely blown up by Ainge...

1) Cavs will have to give Kyrie away now... this costs them leverage. Love seeing Gilbert bent over a barrel.

2) Celtics fans just flipped flopped so hard on Kyrie and now they will have to flip flop again.

3) Ruins the Celtics chemistry and makes them ONCE AGAIN a laughing stock.



...for the shear entertainment value I hope Cleveland renegs and I hope there is bad blood.

This post is full of lulz.

But number 3 is my favorite. The Celtics have the most championships in league history and just played in the ECF. Then they signed Hayward and still have lots of assets. Laughing stock? Just your post.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:07 PM
are we also forcing him to give up the moon for a similar player to what he is giving away? Na thats right its a good deal now because ainge :laugh:

Not even sure what half of this means, per usual.

For the last time, you saying he "gave up the moon", doesn't mean he did. Read expert opinions on it. You stand alone.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:11 PM
Not even sure what half of this means, per usual.

For the last time, you saying he "gave up the moon", doesn't mean he did. Read expert opinions on it. You stand alone.

I've seen plenty of people with the opinion that Boston gave up too much in the first place.

You do realize the more some of you dig in on how great Ainge is and stuff you only make it worse for yourself. Do you really think Cleveland agrees to the deal if they knew that IT's hip was as bad as they found it to be in the physical?

Personally I don't.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:20 PM
I've seen plenty of people with the opinion that Boston gave up too much in the first place.

You do realize the more some of you dig in on how great Ainge is and stuff you only make it worse for yourself. Do you really think Cleveland agrees to the deal if they knew that IT's hip was as bad as they found it to be in the physical?

Personally I don't.

Once again, different doctors. The Celtics opted against surgery on the hip and have been open with the media that Isaiah wouldn't start off the year at 100% (or at all).

Cleveland doctors could easily be seeing the same thing the Celtics doctors see. Example, he may not be healthy enough to start the year. In that case, the Cavs could say they "don't like what the physical is showing", and ask for more in return. It doesn't have to be that Ainge is hiding stuff or the Celtics doctors are dumb which makes Ainge dumb. That's just what you want it to be.

GiantsSwaGG
08-26-2017, 07:21 PM
If I'm Cleveland I want either that LA pick or Tatum

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:23 PM
Once again, different doctors. The Celtics opted against surgery on the hip and have been open with the media that Isaiah wouldn't start off the year at 100% (or at all).

Cleveland doctors could easily be seeing the same thing the Celtics doctors see. Example, he may not be healthy enough to start the year. In that case, the Cavs could say they "don't like what the physical is showing", and ask for more in return. It doesn't have to be that Ainge is hiding stuff or the Celtics doctors are dumb which makes Ainge dumb. That's just what you want it to be.

So then what your suggesting is the possibility of Cleveland trying to swindle Boston, which would go to arbitration.

corky831
08-26-2017, 07:24 PM
Lol they can want that, but they won't get it.

PAOboston
08-26-2017, 07:25 PM
If I'm Cleveland I want either that LA pick or TatumAinge just hangs up the phone. Cleveland isn't getting either (or Brown). It'll likely be a Boston 1st rounder.

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corky831
08-26-2017, 07:27 PM
Why so much hate from 76ers fans on the Celtics? You guys aren't even rivals to the Cs....need to be in the playoffs first

GiantsSwaGG
08-26-2017, 07:29 PM
Ainge just hangs up the phone. Cleveland isn't getting either (or Brown). It'll likely be a Boston 1st rounder.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Then y'all can keep IT and deal with the consequences. I'm starting to think Angie knew that IT hip injury was more of a concern and downplayed it.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:32 PM
So then what your suggesting is the possibility of Cleveland trying to swindle Boston, which would go to arbitration.

Call it what you want.

They can say the don't like the physical because their doctors find it worse than expected. That is absolutely possible too with a situation like IT is in. It's not an injury you can pinpoint easily with its extent and timeline.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 07:34 PM
There's no way Ainge is trading Brown, Tatum, or the lakers pick. The celtics got their guy this offseason with Hayward, anything else is cake. CLE needs this trade worse for the Nets pick then Boston needs this trade.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:35 PM
Why so much hate from 76ers fans on the Celtics? You guys aren't even rivals to the Cs....need to be in the playoffs first

Being in the same division is part of it.

The dislike really took off a couple years ago, with most of it aimed at Ainge. Remember when the #3 pick for Okafor rumors were floating around but they were never realistic? That was Philly media driven. Their fans got false hope on deals that weren't happening. Once it didn't happen they blamed Ainge for being "greedy" or "dumb" because of the trash trade ideas that their local media was feeding them.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:36 PM
Call it what you want.

They can say the don't like the physical because their doctors find it worse than expected. That is absolutely possible too with a situation like IT is in. It's not an injury you can pinpoint easily with its extent and timeline.

Funny....I say something that could be good for Boston and you keep arguing the same thing. If Cleveland claims it's worse than thought, then have an independent doctor look.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:37 PM
Being in the same division is part of it.

The dislike really took off a couple years ago, with most of it aimed at Ainge. Remember when the #3 pick for Okafor rumors were floating around but they were never realistic? That was Philly media driven. Their fans got false hope on deals that weren't happening. Once it didn't happen they blamed Ainge for being "greedy" or "dumb" because of the trash trade ideas that their local media was feeding them.

Actually if goes before that.

Green_Monster
08-26-2017, 07:41 PM
Funny....I say something that could be good for Boston and you keep arguing the same thing. If Cleveland claims it's worse than thought, then have an independent doctor look.

Or... explaining.


Actually if goes before that.

Yes, division rivals. The illogical "omg Ainge so dumb" stuff started recently.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 07:44 PM
The Celtics and cope with the trade being killed far easier than the Cavs.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:50 PM
Or... explaining.



Yes, division rivals. The illogical "omg Ainge so dumb" stuff started recently.

Started right about the time you guys drafted Smart, Ainge made comments about us taking another injured player, even though he called to trade up for Embiid.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:51 PM
The Celtics and cope with the trade being killed far easier than the Cavs.

how so? The cavs were forced to trade kyrie regardless.... there will be plenty of suiters for kyrie... Who is taking an IT with hip trouble who is about to get paid? Now factor in how pissed off crowder already was at Boston now factor in how both IT and Crowder feel betrayed? Yes the celtics get back that pick but this is doomsday for the celtics when in reality the cavs can just offer up kyrie to another team.

KB24PG16
08-26-2017, 07:51 PM
cavs have killed IT's value moving forward if the celtics intend to trade him if the trade for kyrie is voided

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:51 PM
cavs have killed IT's value moving forward if the celtics intend to trade him if the trade for kyrie is voided

someone else... who gets it.

mariner4life
08-26-2017, 07:51 PM
If I'm the celtics I tell the Cavs to go to hell.
The Cavs won't get get a better deal for a guy who doesn't want to play for them.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:52 PM
If I'm the celtics I tell the Cavs to go to hell.
The Cavs won't get get a better deal for a guy who doesn't want to play for them.

yet you think the celtics will for 2 players WHO WONT WANT TO PLAY FOR THEM? on top of IT looming contract and hip issues? lol.

More-Than-Most
08-26-2017, 07:52 PM
I hate IT... but if you think he is going to let this **** slide after playing hurt and a day after his sister died for the celtics and they turn around and do this? you are nuts

warfelg
08-26-2017, 07:54 PM
If I'm the celtics I tell the Cavs to go to hell.
The Cavs won't get get a better deal for a guy who doesn't want to play for them.

And the Celtics will have a damaged goods player, and an even more pissed off Crowder who will demand a trade.

mariner4life
08-26-2017, 07:57 PM
yet you think the celtics will for 2 players WHO WONT WANT TO PLAY FOR THEM? on top of IT looming contract and hip issues? lol.

The package the Cavs are getting will be enough for them to get back to the finals and hope for the best.
They also have a post Lebron plan now in place with the Nets pick.
Their just trying to sweeten the pot.
If the deal gets voided sure it hurts the celtics but the Cavs would be stupid to drive them both off the cliff.

nastynice
08-26-2017, 08:02 PM
Doesn't really affect the cavs, but this would put the Celtics in a tough spot. Hella soap opera type a **** in the NBA now, lol

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 08:04 PM
If I'm Cleveland I want either that LA pick or Tatum

Won't happen

It's way to much... they won't give up more than one of the future late first rounders.. and even that will probably be contingent on how much IT plays

redsox12
08-26-2017, 08:05 PM
how so? The cavs were forced to trade kyrie regardless.... there will be plenty of suiters for kyrie... Who is taking an IT with hip trouble who is about to get paid? Now factor in how pissed off crowder already was at Boston now factor in how both IT and Crowder feel betrayed? Yes the celtics get back that pick but this is doomsday for the celtics when in reality the cavs can just offer up kyrie to another team.

and get a much worse pick than a potential top two pick. How is those post-LeBron plans working out without a top player in this draft.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 08:06 PM
how so? The cavs were forced to trade kyrie regardless.... there will be plenty of suiters for kyrie... Who is taking an IT with hip trouble who is about to get paid? Now factor in how pissed off crowder already was at Boston now factor in how both IT and Crowder feel betrayed? Yes the celtics get back that pick but this is doomsday for the celtics when in reality the cavs can just offer up kyrie to another team.

Ok chicken little.. the sky isn't falling

warfelg
08-26-2017, 08:08 PM
It's really in the best interests of both teams to get this done.

~If the Cavs are just trying to 'sweeten the pot' like people are accusing them up this would be going to arbitration so fast or the Celtics would be more willing to walk away. A team lying about a physical to try to get a team to give up more is unheard of and would be a black mark that would be impossible to get over.

~If the Celtics walk away, it becomes tougher for them to deal their players because people are going to know with at least IT they are trying to trade damaged goods. It's also silly for them to walk away because they are the team trying to acquire the best player in this deal.

Really it's best for them to work it out. As much as Celtics fans will just whine I'm hating on them, it doesn't look good for them....or Cleveland if they get this doesn't get done. Cleveland will look like swindlers and Boston will look like they are trying to unload an injury problem. I'm not sure why I would see either team wanting to walk away.

Vinylman
08-26-2017, 08:09 PM
And the Celtics will have a damaged goods player, and an even more pissed off Crowder who will demand a trade.

Lmfao

Crowder couldn't demand **** even if he wanted too... he's a ****ing nobody

This site sometimes is beyond laughable

warfelg
08-26-2017, 08:09 PM
and get a much worse pick than a potential top two pick. How is those post-LeBron plans working out without a top player in this draft.

Wait just yesterday it was a 5=7 pick and now it's a potential top 2 again?

mariner4life
08-26-2017, 08:16 PM
Yesterday Ainge got schooled and raped and today he better give up more or he will lose that deal. lol

warfelg
08-26-2017, 08:18 PM
7:57pm: Celtics officials believe they were “completely transparent” regarding Thomas’ physical condition and will “strongly resist” adding to the deal, tweets Chris Mannix of The Vertical.

6:51pm: The Cavaliers are refusing to comment on Wojnarowski’s report, according to Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com. Two sources told him the team is “still in the review process” and hasn’t determined whether to ask Boston for additional assets to complete the deal.

6:00pm: The Cavaliers plan to ask for “further compensation” before agreeing to complete the Kyrie Irving deal with the Celtics, reports ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski. Sources tell him that Cavs officials could threaten to veto the trade unless additions are made.

The decision was made after Cleveland’s front office reviewed the results of a physical that Isaiah Thomas underwent on Friday. Thomas is dealing with a hip injury that he aggravated in the playoffs and may not be ready for the start of the upcoming season.

It hasn’t been reported what the Cavaliers plan to ask for, but speculation revolves around the many first- and second-round picks that Boston has accumulated in recent years. The teams discussed Thomas’ condition, sources tell Wojnarowski, but Cleveland could argue that the Celtics weren’t completely forthcoming about the extent of the injury or the likelihood that he might miss the beginning of the season. Celtics president Danny Ainge admitted this week that Thomas’ injury had “some” influence on the decision to trade him.

Under league rules, the deadline to take physicals is Wednesday at 10 a.m. Eastern for all players involved in the trade, with the deadline for passing physicals set for 24 hours later. That gives the Cavaliers and Celtics until Thursday morning to finalize the deal, although that could be extended if both sides agree to do so.

Thomas’ injury, a strain of the right hip, forced him to miss two games during the regular season. It became an issue again in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference finals and sidelined him for the rest of the playoffs.

Both teams would face awkward situations if the deal falls apart, Wojnarowski notes. Irving had requested a trade out of Cleveland, and the Cavs would have a difficult time finding an offer better than Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and the Nets’ unprotected first-rounder for next year. The Celtics, meanwhile, would have to repair relations with three players who were traded away, and may have to find a new point guard if Thomas’ injury keeps him sidelined for an extended time.

Seems like we got a good ole Mexican standoff.

PAOboston
08-26-2017, 08:19 PM
Per reports from Chris Mannix, Boston will strongly resist adding anything else to deal. Says Boston feels like they were upfront with all the medical information with Cleveland regarding the hip.

Get ready for a staredown.

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Heediot
08-26-2017, 08:23 PM
From IT's perspective he has to perform. Even if the Celts keep him and not trade him, they still get value from him being on the team, unless he's injured most of the year and playoffs. The guy has to produce with or without the locker room drama. Keeping IT in and of itself isn't bad. No one was saying the Celtics were doomed with IT at the beginning of July. The notion that IT has to be traded is false. If he wren't on a contract year things could get iffy, but the contract year is his motivation to get that brinks truck backed up. Worse case Celtics get a cheap scoring threat for one year and let him walk. OR if IT demands a trade, they build up his stock because he is forced to perform and trade him for another expiring that can help them in the playoffs or a pick.

The Kyrie situation is more complicated. The Lebron situation coincides with the Kyrie situation. Cavs need to plan both for his departure and plan for trying to please him so he can re-up. Good luck getting as much value for other teams as they got from the Celtics given the new precedents set by the DMC/CP3/PG/Jimmy trades.
Cavs have more to lose because there is more pressure with LeBron hovering over them.

redsox12
08-26-2017, 08:26 PM
Wait just yesterday it was a 5=7 pick and now it's a potential top 2 again?

When did I say 5-7? It's definitely a potential top two pick, how many teams lineups are worst than the Nets?

warfelg
08-26-2017, 08:30 PM
From IT's perspective he has to perform. Even if the Celts keep him and not trade him, they still get value from him being on the team, unless he's injured most of the year and playoffs. The guy has to produce with or without the locker room drama. Keeping IT in and of itself isn't bad. No one was saying the Celtics were doomed with IT at the beginning of July. The notion that IT has to be traded is false. If he wren't on a contract year things could get iffy, but the contract year is his motivation to get that brinks truck backed up. Worse case Celtics get a cheap scoring threat for one year and let him walk. OR if IT demands a trade, they build up his stock because he is forced to perform and trade him for another expiring that can help them in the playoffs or a pick.

For the most part if this doesn't happen I don't think most are saying you can't keep IT, just it becomes a much tougher situation with him.

He's harder to trade elsewhere unless he plays and shows he can do something and is healthy. And if that doesn't happen in time the Celtics got to pay him, because they will be in a tough cap situation. If he does, you're now trading a half season rental player and will struggle to get a decent haul back.

Heediot
08-26-2017, 08:35 PM
For the most part if this doesn't happen I don't think most are saying you can't keep IT, just it becomes a much tougher situation with him.

He's harder to trade elsewhere unless he plays and shows he can do something and is healthy. And if that doesn't happen in time the Celtics got to pay him, because they will be in a tough cap situation. If he does, you're now trading a half season rental player and will struggle to get a decent haul back.

The Celtics can survive and have the ammo to build a contender even if IT walks for for nothing. The Cavs on the other hand are hand-cuffed by Kyrie and Lebron to another degree.

AllBall
08-26-2017, 08:41 PM
Seems like we got a good ole Mexican standoff.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_yes.gif

j-bay
08-26-2017, 08:45 PM
Would Celtics fans add the Memphis pick?

mariner4life
08-26-2017, 08:56 PM
Would Celtics fans add the Memphis pick?

No

Celticsfan2007
08-26-2017, 09:35 PM
Seems like we got a good ole Mexican standoff.

This is EXACTLY what I said pages ago. DA Isnt giving up more assets and he didn't try to swindle CLE with regards ITs injury.

This is straight up Gilbert getting cold feet and looking for ANY reason to squeeze the lemon to appease LeBron. GIlberts been a ****** owner for his entire tenure, regardless of how this ends up teams will definitely be hesitant to make trades with them due to their terrible dysfunction.

warfelg
08-26-2017, 10:02 PM
This is EXACTLY what I said pages ago. DA Isnt giving up more assets and he didn't try to swindle CLE with regards ITs injury.

This is straight up Gilbert getting cold feet and looking for ANY reason to squeeze the lemon to appease LeBron. GIlberts been a ****** owner for his entire tenure, regardless of how this ends up teams will definitely be hesitant to make trades with them due to their terrible dysfunction.

I mean, if Cleveland is trying to swindle or squeeze more out why did Boston agree to talk more? Why didn't they start to file for an appeal or anything like that?

Nikeman
08-26-2017, 10:09 PM
Cleveland has all of the leverage here. Cleveland has Irving for two more years and can easily tell him they tried to deal him but they will not give him up for peanuts. Again, the Cavs own him for two years.

IT has been alienated by Boston. He will not happily play there. He's as good as gone after this year, and now his trade value is effectively destroyed. IT has an expiring contract, Kyrie has two years. If his hip is as bad as it is, IT can just ride the season out and collect his 6 mill and run. When he played with a busted hip for 2 months and a day after his sister passed, why the hell would he rush himself back this time? If I am IT, I come back in March and show the NBA I am back at full strength and if he does hugely delay his return, no way Boston makes the playoffs this year.

If I am Boston, why the hell not give up another 1st (Bostons own) which will be like 25th anyway. Boston has what, like 6 other 1sts??

Get the deal done.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 11:35 PM
I mean, if Cleveland is trying to swindle or squeeze more out why did Boston agree to talk more? Why didn't they start to file for an appeal or anything like that?

I don't know that Boston DID agree to talk more.

Scoots
08-26-2017, 11:37 PM
Cleveland has all of the leverage here. Cleveland has Irving for two more years and can easily tell him they tried to deal him but they will not give him up for peanuts. Again, the Cavs own him for two years.

IT has been alienated by Boston. He will not happily play there. He's as good as gone after this year, and now his trade value is effectively destroyed. IT has an expiring contract, Kyrie has two years. If his hip is as bad as it is, IT can just ride the season out and collect his 6 mill and run. When he played with a busted hip for 2 months and a day after his sister passed, why the hell would he rush himself back this time? If I am IT, I come back in March and show the NBA I am back at full strength and if he does hugely delay his return, no way Boston makes the playoffs this year.

If I am Boston, why the hell not give up another 1st (Bostons own) which will be like 25th anyway. Boston has what, like 6 other 1sts??

Get the deal done.

Kyrie supposedly said he's not coming to camp. If the Cavs keep him my guess is he gets "injured" and misses most or all of the games until he's traded. Neither team are in good shape, but the Celtics are in better shape if the trade dies.

Dade County
08-27-2017, 12:02 AM
Kyrie supposedly said he's not coming to camp. If the Cavs keep him my guess is he gets "injured" and misses most or all of the games until he's traded. Neither team are in good shape, but the Celtics are in better shape if the trade dies.

Ummm...

I'm sure Cav's can find another trade partner. Maybe they won't be able to get a great asset as the Nets 1st rd unprotected pick.

If Kyrie doesn't truly show up, I'm sure teams have ways of protected themselves when and if a player decides to not report.

And I have to disagree, Boston is in worst shape if this deal doesn't go down. They can't try to bring back IT at this point, he could really tear the front office down, just by little cheap shot words, when a camera is up in his face.

I think everything comes down to, when will IT actually be ready to play?

nastynice
08-27-2017, 12:11 AM
I hope the trade goes thru, I'm sure the league wants it to go through too. Would be a monster ECF.

j-bay
08-27-2017, 12:21 AM
I hope the trade goes thru, I'm sure the league wants it to go through too. Would be a monster ECF.

At this point after Lebron leaves you got 2 and a half teams if the trade is still on

Celtics
Wizards
Raptors (Regular season team, might get an easy first round opponent)

With the potential of
Bucks
76ers(Embiid has to stay healthy, and we don't know what Simmons or Fultz can do yet)

Dade County
08-27-2017, 12:57 AM
I hope the trade goes thru, I'm sure the league wants it to go through too. Would be a monster ECF.

There is no guarantee that Boston makes the ECF.

Lets judge them around 20 games, and even after that, they can still make another move; also other teams can still make moves as well.



At this point after Lebron leaves you got 2 and a half teams if the trade is still on

Celtics
Wizards
Raptors (Regular season team, might get an easy first round opponent)

With the potential of
Bucks
76ers(Embiid has to stay healthy, and we don't know what Simmons or Fultz can do yet)

If Lbj leaves the cave's, I feel that he will be joint another team in the East. So whoever that team is, they will be the ones making the trip to the Final's. Lbj can go on a 10yr run.

& out of the teams you have up, I only actually trust Pat Riley to build a good enough team to make it to the Final's.

Scoots
08-27-2017, 01:28 AM
Ummm...

I'm sure Cav's can find another trade partner. Maybe they won't be able to get a great asset as the Nets 1st rd unprotected pick.

If Kyrie doesn't truly show up, I'm sure teams have ways of protected themselves when and if a player decides to not report.

And I have to disagree, Boston is in worst shape if this deal doesn't go down. They can't try to bring back IT at this point, he could really tear the front office down, just by little cheap shot words, when a camera is up in his face.

I think everything comes down to, when will IT actually be ready to play?

Kyrie can hold out for training camp with some minimal fines. He has to show up for the season, but if he says he's got pain in his hamstring are they really going to force him to go? Are they even going to want to risk playing him and having him get hurt?

IT is on the last year of his deal. He wasn't going to get a max deal from the Celtics so he was gone regardless. IT can't hold out, he has to play as soon as he can and go all out for his next contract. If he's a cancer it will hurt his next contract.

Heediot
08-27-2017, 01:34 AM
LOLOLOL.

take away IT, the Celtics can add another high quality player with the BK pick and the LAL pick together.
Take away Kyrie, wtf can Cleveland really add. Just by this logic you tell me who needs the trade more?

This is worse than the rigged Connor fight. Mayweather should have controlled the fight earlier and won the fight within 5 rounds. Luckily I didnt bet the o/u as I knew there was a chance of a set-up as this fight was never a legit or official boxing match to begin with. Yeah the odds sucked for picking May, but it was a sure thing and free of riggness possibilities if you just picked him to win. The fight was fishy as **** to begin with. Hust a money making scheme.

More-Than-Most
08-27-2017, 01:43 AM
LOLOLOL.

take away IT, the Celtics can add another high quality player with the BK pick and the LAL pick together.
Take away Kyrie, wtf can Cleveland really add. Just by this logic you tell me who needs the trade more?

This is worse than the rigged Connor fight. Mayweather should have controlled the fight earlier and won the fight within 5 rounds. Luckily I didnt bet the o/u as I knew there was a chance of a set-up as this fight was never a legit or official boxing match to begin with. Yeah the odds sucked for picking May, but it was a sure thing and free of riggness possibilities if you just picked him to win. The fight was fishy as **** to begin with. Hust a money making scheme.

this logic is with all respect... dumb... So take away IT the celtics can add with the nets pick and the lakers pick? NO ****... But why take away Kyrie? Kyrie if this falls through is still going to have a ton of value unlike IT... WTF are you even talking about lol. THAT is why this hurts boston so much because NOBODY will risk taking IT if this trade falls through where there will be teams lining up for kyrie.

Scoots
08-27-2017, 01:47 AM
this logic is with all respect... dumb... So take away IT the celtics can add with the nets pick and the lakers pick? NO ****... But why take away Kyrie? Kyrie if this falls through is still going to have a ton of value unlike IT... WTF are you even talking about lol. THAT is why this hurts boston so much because NOBODY will risk taking IT if this trade falls through where there will be teams lining up for kyrie.

Someone will still take IT ... the Celtics just won't get much in return. The issue the Cavs have is that it's much harder to find a trading partner that can eat Kyrie's money.

Heediot
08-27-2017, 01:47 AM
this logic is with all respect... dumb... So take away IT the celtics can add with the nets pick and the lakers pick? NO ****... But why take away Kyrie? Kyrie is this falls through is still going to have a ton of value unlike IT... WTF are you even talking about lol. THAT is why this hurts boston so much because NOBODY will risk taking IT if this trade falls through where there will be teams lining up for kyrie.

I am saying Boston isnt as desperate as Cleveland. Even if IT walks for nothing, Boston still has ammo to build a contender, or they have ammo for a full rebuild.

BK and LAL picks can get you one super star or one all star and a fringe all star. Even before IT was on board, Boston was a 45 win team.

I am saying Boston isnt as dependent on IT involved in any trade for them to build. Even if the guy is a free agent and they lose him the next day, they are still in a good spot. Im a bit buzzed but whatever lol.

What Cleveland has to worry about is far more bigger, they can lose James if the trade ****s up. And they don't have the same pieces for a quick rebuild or a nice rebuild as Boston does. Boston can rebuild nicely, or they ammo to add to what they have. To say Boston is more dependent on this trade falling through is a joke.

corky831
08-27-2017, 01:50 AM
There is no guarantee that Boston makes the ECF.

Lets judge them around 20 games, and even after that, they can still make another move; also other teams can still make moves as well.




If Lbj leaves the cave's, I feel that he will be joint another team in the East. So whoever that team is, they will be the ones making the trip to the Final's. Lbj can go on a 10yr run.

& out of the teams you have up, I only actually trust Pat Riley to build a good enough team to make it to the Final's.

Of course you'd say that being a Heat fan. Riley is so good he was able to sign Hayward this off season right? LBJ is not going on a 10 yr run....LOL at the whole post, including the verbiage and grammatical errors

More-Than-Most
08-27-2017, 01:52 AM
I am saying Boston isnt as desperate as Cleveland. Even if IT walks for nothing, Boston still has ammo to build a contender, or they have ammo for a full rebuild.

BK and LAL picks can get you one super star or one all star and a fringe all star. Even before IT was on board, Boston was a 45 win team.

I am saying Boston isnt as dependent on IT involved in any trade for them to build. Even if the guy is a free agent and they lose him the next day, they are still in a good spot. Im a bit buzzed but whatever lol.

Boston is in a great spot id agree... but its becoming a tad bit worrisome if you are a celtics fan... you need to get rid of IT whom is injured... they have a good bit of assets but they also have ****** horford and will need to pay smart while praying Tatum/Brown work out... it could just as easily go to **** but they do have pieces that could get them a star but ainge has sat on his hands with all his assets for a while... they should have butler.

corky831
08-27-2017, 01:58 AM
How is Boston screwed by the way if this doesn't go down? They get Zizic and the Nets pick back, and if IT is healthy enough to play, you think he's not going to play well in a walk yr where he could earn the most money of his life? Ya, he would be upset about what happened, but at the end of the day, IT wants that money, and the only way he is getting it is if he proves he's healthy and plays well. He doesn't have to sign with the Celtics next yr, but for him to get paid elsewhere, he needs to perform. Crowder will probably be moved if brought back just because we have a logjam at the 3 with Tatum, Hayward, and Brown. The only way this would hurt the Cs is if IT misses the whole season due to his hip. If the trade is voided, the Cs don't have to sign IT, and can probably draft a guy like Collin Sexton with the Nets pick as his replacement. Ultimately, I think the deal gets done, and Kyrie is a Celtic.

Vee-Rex
08-27-2017, 02:11 AM
Does the NBA allow trade stipulations. Like... if IT plays in less than 40 games, the Celtics send the Cavs their 2019 1st rounder. If IT plays in 40+ games, they send them nothing.

It happens in the NFL all the time - but I don't recall seeing it in the NBA.

Cal827
08-27-2017, 02:45 AM
Man, all this drama for Boston to acquire Stephon Marbury jr :laugh2:

Boston is potentially in even worse condition now, even if this still happens. I don't see any way that Cleveland is at the disadvantage, it's not like Irving is impossible to trade away cause GMs are fascinated on what he Could do. At this point, I'm glad that the Raptors don't have any coveted assets to really explore trading for him, as I have worries that he could potentially destroy a locker room from within :laugh2:

It would be best for Boston to end up sending another pick Cleveland's way to finish this deal. If this trade is voided, while they'll get the brooklyn pick back, there's a good chance that they'll not really have a starting point guard for a chunk of the season. Even if it's say until only December/January, he'll probably end up missing training camp, which for a team that has basically overturned its entire roster, is very important to team chemistry. So his return could be ineffective/detrimental to how the team is playing.

Then there's the morale of Crowder and Thomas. They are likely angry at Ainge for basically turning their backs on them (e.g Like Cousins refers to) .

Maybe seeing that he's a free agent next year, Thomas opts for the surgery and fully recover now rather than try to force himself back for the Celtics. He probably won't get a max contract, but you know there will be some team that offers him a ton of money for a couple years (maybe a contract similar to Kyle Lowry). I mean, his contract this season is guaranteed after all.

LOb0
08-27-2017, 02:48 AM
Does the NBA allow trade stipulations. Like... if IT plays in less than 40 games, the Celtics send the Cavs their 2019 1st rounder. If IT plays in 40+ games, they send them nothing.

It happens in the NFL all the time - but I don't recall seeing it in the NBA.

Never been done far as I know. That could lead to some shady tactics.

LOb0
08-27-2017, 02:49 AM
Man, all this drama for Boston to acquire Stephon Marbury jr :laugh2:

Boston is potentially in even worse condition now, even if this still happens. I don't see any way that Cleveland is at the disadvantage, it's not like Irving is impossible to trade away cause GMs are fascinated on what he Could do. At this point, I'm glad that the Raptors don't have any coveted assets to really explore trading for him, as I have worries that he could potentially destroy a locker room from within :laugh2:

It would be best for Boston to end up sending another pick Cleveland's way to finish this deal. If this trade is voided, while they'll get the brooklyn pick back, there's a good chance that they'll not really have a starting point guard for a chunk of the season. Even if it's say until only December/January, he'll probably end up missing training camp, which for a team that has basically overturned its entire roster, is very important to team chemistry. So his return could be ineffective/detrimental to how the team is playing.

Then there's the morale of Crowder and Thomas. They are likely angry at Ainge for basically turning their backs on them (e.g Like Cousins refers to) .

Maybe seeing that he's a free agent next year, Thomas opts for the surgery and fully recover now rather than try to force himself back for the Celtics. He probably won't get a max contract, but you know there will be some team that offers him a ton of money for a couple years (maybe a contract similar to Kyle Lowry). I mean, his contract this season is guaranteed after all.

Most I'm giving extra is a Celtics first rounder. If they don't want that they can go ***** themselves.

Cal827
08-27-2017, 02:51 AM
Never been done far as I know. That could lead to some shady tactics.

:laugh2: Players randomly being held out of games in order for a pick not to transfer

I'm not sure if there's anything blocking a deal like that though, I mean I didn't know you could make a deal that ensured that a team would get a lottery pick, until the Raptors acquired Lowry from Houston.... It was bottom 16 protected and top 3 protected :laugh2:

Cal827
08-27-2017, 02:53 AM
Most I'm giving extra is a Celtics first rounder. If they don't want that they can go ***** themselves.

:laugh2: and that's what would be fair.... but seeing that this is Cleveland and owned by Dan Gilbert.... I can see him ****ing himself out of a deal that would be beneficial to the teams future if Lebron Goes.......


Then, of course, he'll come out with another letter on how it's hard for small market teams to win...... I'm scared for the upcoming lockout.

prodigy
08-27-2017, 09:15 AM
I think Boston went as far as they are going to go. If Cavs don't like it, Boston isn't in a world of hurt with all their assets, whereas Cleveland has to find a taker for Kyrie with their lack of leverage (as Stars seem to have it over teams).

I disagree. Boston needs this trade to go through. They cannot bring IT and Crowder back. Not after what the organization and fan base did. Trust me i understand that was just a handful of moron Celtic fans but Thomas won't see it that way. Just like people think Every cavs fan burned Lebron jerseys when it was actually like 5 people.

Scoots
08-27-2017, 09:16 AM
:laugh2: and that's what would be fair.... but seeing that this is Cleveland and owned by Dan Gilbert.... I can see him ****ing himself out of a deal that would be beneficial to the teams future if Lebron Goes.......


Then, of course, he'll come out with another letter on how it's hard for small market teams to win...... I'm scared for the upcoming lockout.

I doubt there is a lockout in the next 6 years. The owners would lose HUGE money on the current TV contract with a lockout.

prodigy
08-27-2017, 09:18 AM
:laugh2: and that's what would be fair.... but seeing that this is Cleveland and owned by Dan Gilbert.... I can see him ****ing himself out of a deal that would be beneficial to the teams future if Lebron Goes.......

Why? Dan Gilbert has always been an excellent owner. Can't see him doing anything like that.

Green_Monster
08-27-2017, 09:26 AM
Boston is in a great spot id agree... but its becoming a tad bit worrisome if you are a celtics fan... you need to get rid of IT whom is injured... they have a good bit of assets but they also have ****** horford and will need to pay smart while praying Tatum/Brown work out... it could just as easily go to **** but they do have pieces that could get them a star but ainge has sat on his hands with all his assets for a while... they should have butler.

Your takes are so ****ing bad lol.

Not one Celtics fan is "worried". We just made it to the ECF and became a more talented team in the off-season. Even if this trade falls through and Ainge doesn't make any moves for a couple years they have Tatum+Brown+Nets Pick+Lakers Pick+more. Horford (who isn't ******) will be expired by then. Meanwhile we'll have three chances to make it to the finals in the coming years, keeping fans entertained.

You seriously just throw all logic out the window when it comes to anything Celtics related.

daleja424
08-27-2017, 09:26 AM
To all the people saying they hope Ainge reneges on the deal.....what motivation does he have? He's the one that wants the best player in the deal. If at all Cleveland is the one with motivation to renege on the deal.

Let me clarify. I mean when Cleveland comes back and requests additional compensation and Ainge blows it all up over an extra draft pick...

He is a stubborn old man!

Green_Monster
08-27-2017, 09:31 AM
Cleveland has all of the leverage here. Cleveland has Irving for two more years and can easily tell him they tried to deal him but they will not give him up for peanuts. Again, the Cavs own him for two years.

IT has been alienated by Boston. He will not happily play there. He's as good as gone after this year, and now his trade value is effectively destroyed. IT has an expiring contract, Kyrie has two years. If his hip is as bad as it is, IT can just ride the season out and collect his 6 mill and run. When he played with a busted hip for 2 months and a day after his sister passed, why the hell would he rush himself back this time? If I am IT, I come back in March and show the NBA I am back at full strength and if he does hugely delay his return, no way Boston makes the playoffs this year.

If I am Boston, why the hell not give up another 1st (Bostons own) which will be like 25th anyway. Boston has what, like 6 other 1sts??

Get the deal done.

Boston still makes the playoffs even if he delays his return. They'd be a lower seed but they're talented enough, especially with Brad Stevens coaching.

daleja424
08-27-2017, 09:31 AM
This post is full of lulz.

But number 3 is my favorite. The Celtics have the most championships in league history and just played in the ECF. Then they signed Hayward and still have lots of assets. Laughing stock? Just your post.

Players hate Boston. You got Hayward to sign ONLY because his college coach is there. That doesn't work for any other superstars. And with the way they just treated Isaiah no one note worthy is going to be banging down the doors to join up any times soon.

And please don't act like you are giving everyone a history lesson talking about Boston's Championships. They may have 17 Championships, but only one of those is in the last 30 years.

So lets recap. Boston is not currently good enough to win a title and the way management there has gotten a reputation for treating players no one is coming anytime soon. So....yeah.