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Sssmush
08-12-2017, 07:25 PM
this growing rhetoric of why Kyrie "really really has to accept" staying in Cleveland and which we can now add Barkley and Stephen A to the crew that is advancing this narrative... I mean it seems transparently obvious why this is occurring.

Now whether it is the league (which wants to preserve a semblance of a marquee Finals matchup even though the conferences are badly unbalanced and the seedings have not been re-shuffled or opened up) or Nike (which gets huge revenue from its "Lebron is the GOAT and only an unfair stacked GSW prevents him from having 10 rings" narrative) or whether it's Lebron's management team which wants this narrative most, who can say.

But here is the basic situation: Before Lebron returned to Cleveland, Kyrie had a rough season with a very shoddy lineup and had a few injuries etc and didn't win much.

So then after Lebron returned, and Kevin Love, JR Smith, Shumpert etc were added, and Tristan Thompson suddenly became a force, and a good David Blatt started implementing a solid team concept, boom now the Cavs made it through a weak East to reach the Finals, and were given a couple games by some extremely optimistic refereeing crews who didn't mind giving them an extra 20-25 free throws over the other team.

So Lebron's plan surely was, play out 2017-18, make another valiant effort in the Finals, and then bolt for *wherever* with the narrative that it is just so unfair that GSW has this unstoppable super team. No doubt they are thinking that in 2018 Westbrook, George and even CP3 will all be available for super-team building etc.

HOWEVER, this would leave Kyrie back again on a depleted Cavs team, once again holding the bag and then if they don't get far in the playoffs the narrative can continue that "see, Kyrie is nothing without Lebron. Kyrie just can't win without Lebron."

KYRIE's move, which I think is excellent, forces the issue. Because by leaving, now LEBRON will be left holding the bag THIS YEAR. And probably flounders somewhat, probably has a hard time getting out of the East, etc. Might just have a really off year without Kyrie in fact.

Everybody knows this I feel like but nobody will say it.

What I saw in the Finals the past two years, as well as in the divisional playoffs to a lesser degree, was that Kyrie was absolutely magical. Kyrie played utterly fantastic, utterly amazing.

Kyrie was like Tom Brady 2nd half against Atlanta Falcons amazing. All.Finals.Long.

boom.

I mean Lebron may be facilitating great, hitting some threes, balling out on defense, everything. But against that Golden State team... both this year and the year before... the way GSW was scoring, if Kyrie wasn't there to just make BASKET after BASKET after BASKET after BASKET after BASKET seemingly shooting 100% from the field when it really counted... then Lebron the GOAT isn't anywhere near to winning any of those games against Golden State.

Period the end.

I mean honestly I don't blame Kyrie one bit and I totally think he is right to make this move. The Finals got over both times and immediately everyone is showering Lebron with golden praise and he is the best ever etc etc etc. But no one even mentions Kyrie. In fact lots of people say that yeah Kyrie is amazing but he actually makes the team play worse because he doesn't pass enough or does hero ball etc. So Lebron gets ALL THE CREDIT and none of the blame, even though it is transparently obvious that he is for all intents and purposes riding Kyrie's incredible offensive play in the Finals.

So let Kyrie go where he wants. If Lebron's narrative has merit, then he should be able to have the Cavs just as good with an Eric Bledsoe or whatever. No sense demanding Bledsoe, plus JJackson, plus mutliple firsts for a two year rental of Kyrie when they know nobody will take that deal. Just take Bledsoe and some filler and move on that is fair.

And then hey if Lebron is back in the Finals doesn't miss a beat, ok great give him credit. But if the team is no way no longer a super team and just sputters without Kyrie, ok well then maybe it is time to give Kyrie some extra credit for putting on some of the best offensive performances in NBA Final's history

TrueFan420
08-12-2017, 08:33 PM
You could have said all of this in a 3rd of the space

Scoots
08-12-2017, 08:52 PM
Kyrie made it clear he wants out. Now it's up to the Cavs to move him or not ... to play him or not.

Personally I like the solution of Kyrie refusing to compromise and the Cavs sitting him to keep him from getting injured next season while they try to trade him.

JasonJohnHorn
08-12-2017, 09:25 PM
He signed a contract. He chose to sign a contract. He is being compensated. They can trade him if they want, or they can put him on the court and have him play.

I suggest trading him to a $#!TTY @$$ team where he can be the alpha like he wants and get assets for him.

The fact that he wants to play for the Clippers if a fawking joke. He was butt hurt because James wanted to trade him there for Paul; now he wants to go there, but waits until after Paul is gone before he lets them know that? WTF kind of a d!ck move is that?


And his flat earth $#!t just makes him sound like one of the dumbest people on the planet.

It's hard to take a person like that seriously in any respect.

Scoots
08-12-2017, 10:30 PM
He signed a contract. He chose to sign a contract. He is being compensated. They can trade him if they want, or they can put him on the court and have him play.

I suggest trading him to a $#!TTY @$$ team where he can be the alpha like he wants and get assets for him.

The fact that he wants to play for the Clippers if a fawking joke. He was butt hurt because James wanted to trade him there for Paul; now he wants to go there, but waits until after Paul is gone before he lets them know that? WTF kind of a d!ck move is that?


And his flat earth $#!t just makes him sound like one of the dumbest people on the planet.

It's hard to take a person like that seriously in any respect.

His wishes should have no bearing on where he's traded as far as the Cavs are concerned ... but Kyrie saying he won't sign for crap teams is going to drop what they will be willing to pay for him.

If the Cavs don't trade him and tell him to play I wonder if he'll say he's "injured" and can't?

Dade County
08-12-2017, 11:59 PM
I wish people stop going with the narrative that Kyrie didn't know LBJ wasn't coming back to the Cav's; before he signed his contract.

These guys talk to each other, Kyrie & Love knew what was going to happen. Everything was set in motion already.



Kyrie wanting out is his choice, we don't no everything that is happening behind the scenes. I just think Kyrie knew he emanated out & aired until after the draft and feee agency; so he could go to a team that he wouldn't mind playing for.

Cav's front office will try to do whats best for them, but I feel they will F it up somehow. But also it was reported over and over that Kyrie name kept coming up in possible trade scenarios.

To me where Kyrie lands might depend on the Knicks. Ny needs to hold onto Melo until he changes his mind about waving his NTC to the Cav's.

And about the media agenda you bring up OP, you are correct, that it seems like they really want the Cav's to stay together at least for this season. But everyone one of these media guys know that Lbj is leaving, so why do they want Irving on the Cav's by himself???

Cav's should just trade Kyrie, Love, & TT... Lbj still will make it to the Final's. But now with their new assets they can build for a bright future.

Sssmush
08-13-2017, 03:00 AM
I wish people stop going with the narrative that Kyrie didn't know LBJ wasn't coming back to the Cav's; before he signed his contract.

These guys talk to each other, Kyrie & Love knew what was going to happen. Everything was set in motion already.



Kyrie wanting out is his choice, we don't no everything that is happening behind the scenes. I just think Kyrie knew he emanated out & aired until after the draft and feee agency; so he could go to a team that he wouldn't mind playing for.

Cav's front office will try to do whats best for them, but I feel they will F it up somehow. But also it was reported over and over that Kyrie name kept coming up in possible trade scenarios.

To me where Kyrie lands might depend on the Knicks. Ny needs to hold onto Melo until he changes his mind about waving his NTC to the Cav's.

And about the media agenda you bring up OP, you are correct, that it seems like they really want the Cav's to stay together at least for this season. But everyone one of these media guys know that Lbj is leaving, so why do they want Irving on the Cav's by himself???

Cav's should just trade Kyrie, Love, & TT... Lbj still will make it to the Final's. But now with their new assets they can build for a bright future.

Yeah the Cavs got options.

The way it's playing out though makes me wonder how much of the superteam was Kyrie and how much was Lebron.

Because Cleveland (lebron essentially) looked at the available deals and was like uh-oh. From there I KNEW that pretty soon we'd have commentators like Steohen A etc calling out Kyrie's manhood or maturity or professionalism or whatever... for the obvious reason that ooops Lebron could be stuck in Cleveland a whole year without this other superstar to carry the weight and take all the criticism and no credit

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-13-2017, 09:22 AM
Barkley should talk. He demanded a trade from 76ers I believe. It wasn't just a random trade to the Suns. Who even listens to Stephen A Smith? He nothing more then shock jock radio more less but on tv.

nastynice
08-13-2017, 02:19 PM
I don't blame kyrie, he just doesn't want to get left the **** end of the stick. Amd if it's just because he doesn't want to play next to lebron, then **** it, that's his call. He would be absolutely nasty playing Parkers role in San Antonio.

I think he's in a good situation for this year at least, but he could be back to the lottery if left with a depleted roster that doesn't complement him

Sssmush
08-13-2017, 03:28 PM
Barkley should talk. He demanded a trade from 76ers I believe. It wasn't just a random trade to the Suns. Who even listens to Stephen A Smith? He nothing more then shock jock radio more less but on tv.

I like Stephen A Smith I think he's brilliant and insightful and very listenable and is great with Max K. Some of this kind of stuff frustrates me because I know he's toeing the line for a larger agenda ( Nike, like I said, or the Lebron machine, or even the league ratings and revenues) and I cant help but point it out because nobody in history has been more highly rated than Lebron and his goat campaign is such astro turf. And somehow blaming Kyrie and giving him no credit is so blatant. But it's all part of the fun and stephen A is super interesting. I need First Take

Storch
08-13-2017, 04:04 PM
Basically, Irving doesn't want to be the person left all alone in cleveland with no talent around him after LBJ leaves. Therefore, he asked to be traded before that time.

I did that in 2 sentences.

Scoots
08-13-2017, 05:45 PM
i like stephen a smith i think he's brilliant and insightful and very listenable and is great with max k. Some of this kind of stuff frustrates me because i know he's toeing the line for a larger agenda ( nike, like i said, or the lebron machine, or even the league ratings and revenues) and i cant help but point it out because nobody in history has been more highly rated than lebron and his goat campaign is such astro turf. And somehow blaming kyrie and giving him no credit is so blatant. But it's all part of the fun and stephen a is super interesting. I need first take

lol

cssdmark
08-13-2017, 07:02 PM
He can wanna leave just like Melo but since they are both under contact it is irrelevant but why should anyone except LeBron be mad since he is stating LeBron as the reason. He is already and all star and a champion.

Sssmush
08-13-2017, 07:07 PM
Basically, Irving doesn't want to be the person left all alone in cleveland with no talent around him after LBJ leaves. Therefore, he asked to be traded before that time.

I did that in 2 sentences.

Right. But how far does Lebron get in the Finals against GSW without Kyrie putting on an historic performance? And why is the espn/tnt narrative now becoming "Kyrie just needs to buck up and play with the Cavs because he can only win with Lebron" ? (and LoL how many words is barkley and these guys putting out there on the subject in a fifteen minute segment, compared to a couple oaragraphs from me?

This is becoming more interesting to me because if some of these pieces starting moving around and "landing" in long term spots then it throws off Lebron's plans for 2018, which obviously involves cp3 and westbrook, and maybe pg13. At the least it makes him spend a season slogging through the mush in cleveland on a lebron-love-tristan-jr-bledsoe team that is no kinda threat to GSW and will lose by 40 pts to them any game

Hawkeye15
08-14-2017, 11:09 AM
I tried to force a trade at my company, unfortunately, I am required to show up in the meantime, while they look at options.

Vinylman
08-14-2017, 11:32 AM
Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...

Kyrie knows this and quietly went to management to express his concerns... someone leaked it and now it is a mess because every other team knows Cleveland has to deal him.

In the end there is a lot of blame to go around... the dipshit owner for letting griffin go when he did... Lebron because he is about as non committal as the hottest chick in the room... The NBA because revenue sharing has made small market teams lazy because they know they can make money even if their product is ****

I hope that Kyrie gets traded and that someone beats the Cavs in the playoffs so the finals are a disaster for the league... then and only then will the league get serious about the competitive imbalance that exists that has been created by the CBA administration.

hugepatsfan
08-14-2017, 11:53 AM
Kyrie already won a ring as the #2 so while he's still in his prime he wants a chance to shine as the top dawg. I give all the credit in the world to him. You only get to be in your prime once so go try to be all you can be, particularly considering he already won a ring. Always good to see guys like him and Westbrook actually competitive and driven enough to push themselves instead of settle in to the easy way out. You can always ring chase later in your career - spend your prime trying to actually achieve something greater.

hugepatsfan
08-14-2017, 11:58 AM
Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...

Kyrie knows this and quietly went to management to express his concerns... someone leaked it and now it is a mess because every other team knows Cleveland has to deal him.

In the end there is a lot of blame to go around... the dipshit owner for letting griffin go when he did... Lebron because he is about as non committal as the hottest chick in the room... The NBA because revenue sharing has made small market teams lazy because they know they can make money even if their product is ****

I hope that Kyrie gets traded and that someone beats the Cavs in the playoffs so the finals are a disaster for the league... then and only then will the league get serious about the competitive imbalance that exists that has been created by the CBA administration.

You can blame the CBA all you want, and there are certainly things that could have been done better, but the fact is that the league was in as good a competitive position as it's ever been prior to KD's decision. He goes to any other team besides GS and this would be a Golden Era of competitive basketball, particularly if he went to a team in the East like BOS, WAS or even MIA. You'd have an all-time great team in GS, another lesser but still all-time great team in CLE and then a few teams that weren't as good but still capable of knocking them off. I mean seriously, KD goes ANYWHERE ELSE and this would be as competitive as the league has ever been at the top.

I'd be wary of ripping up a CBA and making major changes to solve a competitiveness issue that doesn't exist if not for one player's decision. On the whole it fostered an environment that created the exact competitive league we all want unless our team is the one that ruins it.

Vinylman
08-14-2017, 01:33 PM
You can blame the CBA all you want, and there are certainly things that could have been done better, but the fact is that the league was in as good a competitive position as it's ever been prior to KD's decision. He goes to any other team besides GS and this would be a Golden Era of competitive basketball, particularly if he went to a team in the East like BOS, WAS or even MIA. You'd have an all-time great team in GS, another lesser but still all-time great team in CLE and then a few teams that weren't as good but still capable of knocking them off. I mean seriously, KD goes ANYWHERE ELSE and this would be as competitive as the league has ever been at the top.

I'd be wary of ripping up a CBA and making major changes to solve a competitiveness issue that doesn't exist if not for one player's decision. On the whole it fostered an environment that created the exact competitive league we all want unless our team is the one that ruins it.

nah... you are wrong... the only reason he COULD go to the Dubs is because of the CBA rules... there are a ton of subtle issues that all the good teams are taking advantage of... Cleveland should never have been able to amass the team they have ... these teams can only be kept together by a laundry list of exceptions...

TPE's, MLE's, Early Birds Rights, Player Options, max contracts, restrictions on renegotiating deals, asinine extension rules

I can go on and on and on...

Durant is the symptom ... the NBA's lack of foresight on the above systems consequences is the disease...

carlessyen
08-14-2017, 02:10 PM
You sign a contract, you honor it. He doesnt want to honor it, and whine for trade to NY. Yes you trade him to the Nets, Pistons, Suns, or Mavericks no where on his list, and the worst possible destination. To bad the sonics expansion team isn't ready.

prodigy
08-14-2017, 02:21 PM
Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...

Really? So nobody in this world would wanna play on an NBA team? Make Millions of Dollars? have access to the best training facility in basketball? thats a dumb comment u made. If you wanna say big name players won't go to Cleveland if lebron leaves ok. But clearly many many many many many many players would love too play in Cleveland.

prodigy
08-14-2017, 02:23 PM
I hope that Kyrie gets traded and that someone beats the Cavs in the playoffs so the finals are a disaster for the league... then and only then will the league get serious about the competitive imbalance that exists that has been created by the CBA administration.

Are you new to basketball? when has basketball been fair lol. It sucks trust me i know. but Boston and Lakers have over half the ships lol. its nothing new.

JasonJohnHorn
08-14-2017, 02:42 PM
Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves....

That flies in the face of what Kyrie is asking for though. If LBJ leaves, Kyrie get to be the alpha next year. He gets another likely trip to the finals, and then LBJ leaves, the team is his, and he still has Love and TT to bolster him up, and role players around to prove he is an alpha.

It's not like getting traded to the Suns is going to put him in a better position than leading the Cavs by himself with Love and TT as his supporting cast.

JasonJohnHorn
08-14-2017, 02:43 PM
You sign a contract, you honor it. He doesnt want to honor it, and whine for trade to NY. Yes you trade him to the Nets, Pistons, Suns, or Mavericks no where on his list, and the worst possible destination. To bad the sonics expansion team isn't ready.

Hey... I don't want him in Detroit. Thank you.

Scoots
08-14-2017, 03:05 PM
Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...

Kyrie knows this and quietly went to management to express his concerns... someone leaked it and now it is a mess because every other team knows Cleveland has to deal him.

In the end there is a lot of blame to go around... the dipshit owner for letting griffin go when he did... Lebron because he is about as non committal as the hottest chick in the room... The NBA because revenue sharing has made small market teams lazy because they know they can make money even if their product is ****

I hope that Kyrie gets traded and that someone beats the Cavs in the playoffs so the finals are a disaster for the league... then and only then will the league get serious about the competitive imbalance that exists that has been created by the CBA administration.

You say stuff as if it's a fact and seem to think it means something. There are thousands of players who would LOVE to play in Cleveland without LeBron. None of this group of top free agents will likely jump at the chance in Cleveland, but it really depends on what they do next and how much they are willing to overpay. But if Lebron and Kyrie are gone they will still have 15 guys on the roster the next year.

The imbalance is not the fault of the CBA ... it's all about the owners, and there are more top owners in the West than in the East.

Scoots
08-14-2017, 03:16 PM
nah... you are wrong... the only reason he COULD go to the Dubs is because of the CBA rules

That's not true. The new TV deal had nothing to do with the CBA, and the decision to not smooth the cap change had nothing to do with the CBA.

Dade County
08-14-2017, 04:21 PM
You can blame the CBA all you want, and there are certainly things that could have been done better, but the fact is that the league was in as good a competitive position as it's ever been prior to KD's decision. He goes to any other team besides GS and this would be a Golden Era of competitive basketball, particularly if he went to a team in the East like BOS, WAS or even MIA. You'd have an all-time great team in GS, another lesser but still all-time great team in CLE and then a few teams that weren't as good but still capable of knocking them off. I mean seriously, KD goes ANYWHERE ELSE and this would be as competitive as the league has ever been at the top.

I'd be wary of ripping up a CBA and making major changes to solve a competitiveness issue that doesn't exist if not for one player's decision. On the whole it fostered an environment that created the exact competitive league we all want unless our team is the one that ruins it.

Well then, the League needs to step in and trade KD to another team. The owners need to make that phone call behind close doors, and straighten this out.

GS can replace what they lost when they got KD & a little more (and no trading for PG lol).


If GS was forced to trade KD for the betterment of the League, they will aim to trade him out East.


So I am thinking these teams not in order.

Boston… (if they give up GOOD assets, without KD committing). If KD has to commit to Boston before the C’s will give up their good assets, then they are out. I can’t deal with their front office nonsense.

Bucks… Thon Maker, Henson, Middleton

HEAT… Dragic, Winslow, Ty Johnson

Knciks… Melo & Fillers

Raps… If they are willing to trade DeMar DeRozan & fillers

Pistons… Drummond (he was in trade rumors)

Wiz… Have nothing to offer unless they are will to trade Beal.

76ers… Wouldn’t give up any of their young big 3, so I don’t see a trade going down.

hugepatsfan
08-15-2017, 10:39 AM
Really? So nobody in this world would wanna play on an NBA team? Make Millions of Dollars? have access to the best training facility in basketball? thats a dumb comment u made. If you wanna say big name players won't go to Cleveland if lebron leaves ok. But clearly many many many many many many players would love too play in Cleveland.

lol way to ignore all context. He clearly didn't mean that CLE wouldn't be able to fill out a roster. It was abundantly clear he meant that no big name stars would want to go there, not that they couldn't find anyone to play for them.

I tend to agree with that through FA. They'll need to draft another Kyrie caliber player where you hold the leverage and can re-sign them after their rookie deal (not enough financial security yet to turn that down for 99% of the players).

hugepatsfan
08-15-2017, 10:39 AM
Well then, the League needs to step in and trade KD to another team. The owners need to make that phone call behind close doors, and straighten this out.

GS can replace what they lost when they got KD & a little more (and no trading for PG lol).


If GS was forced to trade KD for the betterment of the League, they will aim to trade him out East.


So I am thinking these teams not in order.

Boston… (if they give up GOOD assets, without KD committing). If KD has to commit to Boston before the C’s will give up their good assets, then they are out. I can’t deal with their front office nonsense.

Bucks… Thon Maker, Henson, Middleton

HEAT… Dragic, Winslow, Ty Johnson

Knciks… Melo & Fillers

Raps… If they are willing to trade DeMar DeRozan & fillers

Pistons… Drummond (he was in trade rumors)

Wiz… Have nothing to offer unless they are will to trade Beal.

76ers… Wouldn’t give up any of their young big 3, so I don’t see a trade going down.

This is beyond dumb. The league can't force GS to trade Durant. lmao

hugepatsfan
08-15-2017, 10:46 AM
nah... you are wrong... the only reason he COULD go to the Dubs is because of the CBA rules... there are a ton of subtle issues that all the good teams are taking advantage of... Cleveland should never have been able to amass the team they have ... these teams can only be kept together by a laundry list of exceptions...

TPE's, MLE's, Early Birds Rights, Player Options, max contracts, restrictions on renegotiating deals, asinine extension rules

I can go on and on and on...

Durant is the symptom ... the NBA's lack of foresight on the above systems consequences is the disease...

Teams like CLE and pre-KD GS are amazing for the league. You want multiple all time great teams that can duel it out but are still vulnerable enough to where a few other teams could conceivably upset them. That's the gold standard for parity in the NBA. In a league where star power is so important you're never going to have widespread NFL or MLB style parity. The teams with the truly elite and special players will always rein supreme. So having a few of those all time juggernauts and then a few legit "dark horse" contenders is the best you can really hope for parity wise.

That's EXACTLY what the NBA today would be if KD went anywhere else. You can point to all the exceptions and anything you want but it all helped foster an environment that's one player's decision away from probably the most competitive league any of us have seen in our lifetime.

Personally, I'll take my chances with the current system and hope that we don't have another perfect storm of near flawless management like GS exhibited combined with the mental softness in a superstar like we have with KD. Because if not for those things, the NBA would literally be as perfect as I think any of us could hope for. And all that happened with the current rules.

prodigy
08-15-2017, 10:49 AM
lol way to ignore all context. He clearly didn't mean that CLE wouldn't be able to fill out a roster. It was abundantly clear he meant that no big name stars would want to go there, not that they couldn't find anyone to play for them.

''Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...''

I only used his words. thats all i went by. He went out of his way to bash Cleveland. Could've just said no big name guys will go there.

Vee-Rex
08-15-2017, 10:57 AM
Teams like CLE and pre-KD GS are amazing for the league. You want multiple all time great teams that can duel it out but are still vulnerable enough to where a few other teams could conceivably upset them. That's the gold standard for parity in the NBA. In a league where star power is so important you're never going to have widespread NFL or MLB style parity. The teams with the truly elite and special players will always rein supreme. So having a few of those all time juggernauts and then a few legit "dark horse" contenders is the best you can really hope for parity wise.

That's EXACTLY what the NBA today would be if KD went anywhere else. You can point to all the exceptions and anything you want but it all helped foster an environment that's one player's decision away from probably the most competitive league any of us have seen in our lifetime.

Personally, I'll take my chances with the current system and hope that we don't have another perfect storm of near flawless management like GS exhibited combined with the mental softness in a superstar like we have with KD. Because if not for those things, the NBA would literally be as perfect as I think any of us could hope for. And all that happened with the current rules.

This. Fully agreed.

Vinylman
08-15-2017, 12:04 PM
Really? So nobody in this world would wanna play on an NBA team? Make Millions of Dollars? have access to the best training facility in basketball? thats a dumb comment u made. If you wanna say big name players won't go to Cleveland if lebron leaves ok. But clearly many many many many many many players would love too play in Cleveland.

rent a clue dude... what happened the last time LeBron left?

case closed

WaDe03
08-15-2017, 12:15 PM
rent a clue dude... what happened the last time LeBron left?

case closed

This. Players do not want to play in Cleveland.

Heediot
08-15-2017, 12:16 PM
I think Kyrie wants to see where he's at as the main dog more vs. LeBron leaving his *** empty handed in Cleveland. I don't think he's the ideal #1 option for a title contender, but he can be a 1b or 2 type to put you over.

Vinylman
08-15-2017, 12:18 PM
That flies in the face of what Kyrie is asking for though. If LBJ leaves, Kyrie get to be the alpha next year. He gets another likely trip to the finals, and then LBJ leaves, the team is his, and he still has Love and TT to bolster him up, and role players around to prove he is an alpha.

It's not like getting traded to the Suns is going to put him in a better position than leading the Cavs by himself with Love and TT as his supporting cast.

How does it fly in the face... no top tier FA is EVER going to WILLINGLY go to Cleveland if LeBron is gone... but more importantly Gilbert ISN'T going to continue to pay the repeater tax when LeBron is gone... Cleveland has no infrastructure in place to draw players... their coach is a joke, their FO situation is laughable, their owner is a verified douche... what is the attraction?

Irving doesn't want anything to do with that market... it doesn't help his brand and he knows they can't attract players to put a winner together...

Where Irving eventually ends up is just a means to an end to get out of Cleveland

WaDe03
08-15-2017, 12:21 PM
In the words of Joakim Noah, who ever says they're going on vacation to Cleveland? I'll tell you who.......me if Wade ends up in Cleveland!

Vinylman
08-15-2017, 12:24 PM
lol way to ignore all context. He clearly didn't mean that CLE wouldn't be able to fill out a roster. It was abundantly clear he meant that no big name stars would want to go there, not that they couldn't find anyone to play for them.

I tend to agree with that through FA. They'll need to draft another Kyrie caliber player where you hold the leverage and can re-sign them after their rookie deal (not enough financial security yet to turn that down for 99% of the players).

obviously...

the PSD nits are being intentionally daft

Heediot
08-15-2017, 12:28 PM
I think with or without LEbron in '18. LeBron's shadow and cloud over the franchise will always loom over Kyrie if is still there. BUt I do agree roster construction does play a big role in where he wants to end up, but I think being THAT guy is his top motivation and seeing how good he can be.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:21 PM
This is beyond dumb. The league can't force GS to trade Durant. lmao
Just this once tho. Call it the **** clause

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:23 PM
''Lets face the facts... no one and I mean no one will want to play in Cleveland if the Lebron leaves...''

I only used his words. thats all i went by. He went out of his way to bash Cleveland. Could've just said no big name guys will go there.
Hometown stars didn't even want Cleveland when bron was there, good luck getting anyone without him. I see more Marion or deng types

Vinylman
08-15-2017, 01:25 PM
Teams like CLE and pre-KD GS are amazing for the league. You want multiple all time great teams that can duel it out but are still vulnerable enough to where a few other teams could conceivably upset them. That's the gold standard for parity in the NBA. In a league where star power is so important you're never going to have widespread NFL or MLB style parity. The teams with the truly elite and special players will always rein supreme. So having a few of those all time juggernauts and then a few legit "dark horse" contenders is the best you can really hope for parity wise.

That's EXACTLY what the NBA today would be if KD went anywhere else. You can point to all the exceptions and anything you want but it all helped foster an environment that's one player's decision away from probably the most competitive league any of us have seen in our lifetime.

Personally, I'll take my chances with the current system and hope that we don't have another perfect storm of near flawless management like GS exhibited combined with the mental softness in a superstar like we have with KD. Because if not for those things, the NBA would literally be as perfect as I think any of us could hope for. And all that happened with the current rules.

this site is garabage... I have written out 3 responses to this and the site craps out each time... I will revise this so I don't continue to responds and have the site crap out

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-15-2017, 01:41 PM
this site is garabage... I have written out 3 responses to this and the site craps out each time... I will revise this so I don't continue to responds and have the site crap out

Yeah PSD runs slow and freezes up a lot and when I'm typing its not being typed. I know I posted this in the trouble ticket in the help forum. But they just said to stop using Microsoft Edge. Well ten years ago Firefox use to freeze up or move at a crawl after a while as well. Chrome back then use to just freeze or close out entirely.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:46 PM
this growing rhetoric of why Kyrie "really really has to accept" staying in Cleveland and which we can now add Barkley and Stephen A to the crew that is advancing this narrative... I mean it seems transparently obvious why this is occurring.

Now whether it is the league (which wants to preserve a semblance of a marquee Finals matchup even though the conferences are badly unbalanced and the seedings have not been re-shuffled or opened up) or Nike (which gets huge revenue from its "Lebron is the GOAT and only an unfair stacked GSW prevents him from having 10 rings" narrative) or whether it's Lebron's management team which wants this narrative most, who can say.
None of the above, for as dumb as those guys are, even they know losing Kyrie would kill a portion of the competitive aspect of this "marquee" Finals, you can pretend the 2 conferences are equally lopsided but the truth is, the Warriors are really the only team in the league/history of the league who are this much more talented than the field. Kyrie ditching Bron to prove that hes the next Stephon Marbury is a waste of a season IMO, he can do that after a year of semi contention, unless its true that he plans to quit basketball at a relatively young age.


But here is the basic situation: Before Lebron returned to Cleveland, Kyrie had a rough season with a very shoddy lineup and had a few injuries etc and didn't win much.
Not to mention that lack of growth defensively, that really pissed me off back then.


So then after Lebron returned, and Kevin Love, JR Smith, Shumpert etc were added, and Tristan Thompson suddenly became a force, and a good David Blatt started implementing a solid team concept, boom now the Cavs made it through a weak East to reach the Finals, and were given a couple games by some extremely optimistic refereeing crews who didn't mind giving them an extra 20-25 free throws over the other team. [/QUOTE]
Blatt was ****. Those additions worked because of Bron, notice how he defeated a 60 win team with an injured Kyrie and no Kevin Love. You can fault the refs but the Cavs had no business winning regardless, Bron was just that epic.


So Lebron's plan surely was, play out 2017-18, make another valiant effort in the Finals, and then bolt for *wherever* with the narrative that it is just so unfair that GSW has this unstoppable super team. No doubt they are thinking that in 2018 Westbrook, George and even CP3 will all be available for super-team building etc.

There is no team that could ever match GS firepower, I think the plan could have been to stay in Cleveland, just trade Kyrie for more of a winner (like CP3 for example).


HOWEVER, this would leave Kyrie back again on a depleted Cavs team, once again holding the bag and then if they don't get far in the playoffs the narrative can continue that "see, Kyrie is nothing without Lebron. Kyrie just can't win without Lebron."
Except we already know that about Kyrie. His contributions aren't exactly hidden, hes strictly a scorer with shoddy defense and an inconsistent passing game who loves to pound the ball and chuck. Its only a depleted Cavs team precisely because Kyrie is so inept in comparison to the likes of LeBron, maybe he should know his role then.



KYRIE's move, which I think is excellent, forces the issue. Because by leaving, now LEBRON will be left holding the bag THIS YEAR. And probably flounders somewhat, probably has a hard time getting out of the East, etc. Might just have a really off year without Kyrie in fact.

That could happen even with Kyrie, that many trips to the Finals cant last forever. Only thing I know for sure, Kyrie wont be leading **** compared to Bron.


Everybody knows this I feel like but nobody will say it.

I know your agenda, I'll say that much is clear.


What I saw in the Finals the past two years, as well as in the divisional playoffs to a lesser degree, was that Kyrie was absolutely magical. Kyrie played utterly fantastic, utterly amazing.

Disagree, Kyrie was one of the most abused assignments defensively, not all his fault but when you involve him and K-Love in a PnR, it leads to success for the opposing team. Kyrie had his moments but Im not gonna get carried away.


Kyrie was like Tom Brady 2nd half against Atlanta Falcons amazing. All.Finals.Long.

boom.
If only Kyrie only had to worry about offense, Im sure that comparison would be great. Sadly, even then its a glaring reach.


I mean Lebron may be facilitating great, hitting some threes, balling out on defense, everything. But against that Golden State team... both this year and the year before... the way GSW was scoring, if Kyrie wasn't there to just make BASKET after BASKET after BASKET after BASKET after BASKET seemingly shooting 100% from the field when it really counted... then Lebron the GOAT isn't anywhere near to winning any of those games against Golden State.

Period the end.

Almost nothing you said was true.


I mean honestly I don't blame Kyrie one bit and I totally think he is right to make this move. The Finals got over both times and immediately everyone is showering Lebron with golden praise and he is the best ever etc etc etc. But no one even mentions Kyrie. In fact lots of people say that yeah Kyrie is amazing but he actually makes the team play worse because he doesn't pass enough or does hero ball etc. So Lebron gets ALL THE CREDIT and none of the blame, even though it is transparently obvious that he is for all intents and purposes riding Kyrie's incredible offensive play in the Finals.

If that were true, then the team wouldn't falter without Bron the way they consistently do. I know its hard for Laker fans, poarticularly kobe fans to understand but scoring is but one aspect of the game.


So let Kyrie go where he wants. If Lebron's narrative has merit, then he should be able to have the Cavs just as good with an Eric Bledsoe or whatever. No sense demanding Bledsoe, plus JJackson, plus mutliple firsts for a two year rental of Kyrie when they know nobody will take that deal. Just take Bledsoe and some filler and move on that is fair.

Brons narrative has been proven over the years, Kyrie is the one with doubt. We've already seen Bron overachieve with the Cavs with injured stars, Kyrie has ALOT left to prove.


And then hey if Lebron is back in the Finals doesn't miss a beat, ok great give him credit. But if the team is no way no longer a super team and just sputters without Kyrie, ok well then maybe it is time to give Kyrie some extra credit for putting on some of the best offensive performances in NBA Final's history
Its almost like you dont remember how great they played when they had a team player and defender in Delly when Kyrie he was injured and how he threw everyone off their game when when he came back. The facts are, back then, the Cavs could get the 1 seed or close to it, without Kyrie. However without Bron, they prolly miss the playoffs at worst or make it as a lower seed as best.

Kyrie can do whatever he wants but smart NBA fans know the success of a team is dependent on a multitide of variables, the reason Bron has gotten showered with praise is because he deserves it. Kyrie on the other hand, has not proven ****.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:48 PM
this site is garabage... I have written out 3 responses to this and the site craps out each time... I will revise this so I don't continue to responds and have the site crap out

Copy text before hitting submit, you should have figured it out after the first **** up but hey, you're a KD fan, just quit and blame the site for your inability to adapt or write on ****ing notepad.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:50 PM
Yeah PSD runs slow and freezes up a lot and when I'm typing its not being typed. I know I posted this in the trouble ticket in the help forum. But they just said to stop using Microsoft Edge. Well ten years ago Firefox use to freeze up or move at a crawl after a while as well. Chrome back then use to just freeze or close out entirely.

Its because they save your work as you type it. They want to steal your ideas in case you never post them.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 01:53 PM
Teams like CLE and pre-KD GS are amazing for the league. You want multiple all time great teams that can duel it out but are still vulnerable enough to where a few other teams could conceivably upset them. That's the gold standard for parity in the NBA. In a league where star power is so important you're never going to have widespread NFL or MLB style parity. The teams with the truly elite and special players will always rein supreme. So having a few of those all time juggernauts and then a few legit "dark horse" contenders is the best you can really hope for parity wise.

That's EXACTLY what the NBA today would be if KD went anywhere else. You can point to all the exceptions and anything you want but it all helped foster an environment that's one player's decision away from probably the most competitive league any of us have seen in our lifetime.

Personally, I'll take my chances with the current system and hope that we don't have another perfect storm of near flawless management like GS exhibited combined with the mental softness in a superstar like we have with KD. Because if not for those things, the NBA would literally be as perfect as I think any of us could hope for. And all that happened with the current rules.

Amen brother, I was so amped for next year. We had the return of KD, had he simply resigned or joined a semi contender to push over the top, we would have had the best NBA in a LONG time. I havent seen this much NBA style parity in a long time, then KD chose to join the team that broke the league. I just wish he would own it, his nike commerical was pathetic, his responses to the media/criticism has been embarrassing. I used to really like KD, I had a problem with how often he would struggle in the post season but I always thought he had the talent to lead a team one day. Now I guess we'll never know how great he actually is.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2017, 02:12 PM
Amen brother, I was so amped for next year. We had the return of KD, had he simply resigned or joined a semi contender to push over the top, we would have had the best NBA in a LONG time. I havent seen this much NBA style parity in a long time, then KD chose to join the team that broke the league. I just wish he would own it, his nike commerical was pathetic, his responses to the media/criticism has been embarrassing. I used to really like KD, I had a problem with how often he would struggle in the post season but I always thought he had the talent to lead a team one day. Now I guess we'll never know how great he actually is.

that might be the most annoying part of all of it.

Chronz
08-15-2017, 02:52 PM
that might be the most annoying part of all of it.

Just for fun, how many games do the Thunder/Warriors win without the defection? Could KD have taken down this weaker Cavs team? What would THAT have done for his legacy. I honestly think he could have done it and made a massive leap in the AT rankings, now hes just in this sort of purgatory where nobody worth their salt respects his accomplishment thus far but nobody is stupid enough to deny that hes really really good. Its like its gonna take a 4 peet or something and even then I might just end up disgusted at the whole thing. I really hope basketball gets interesting again cuz its gon be a long 5 years without any sort of manly basketball.

Scoots
08-15-2017, 09:10 PM
There will always be players willing to accept $35M to play in Cleveland.

Storch
08-16-2017, 12:52 AM
Right. But how far does Lebron get in the Finals against GSW without Kyrie putting on an historic performance? And why is the espn/tnt narrative now becoming "Kyrie just needs to buck up and play with the Cavs because he can only win with Lebron" ? (and LoL how many words is barkley and these guys putting out there on the subject in a fifteen minute segment, compared to a couple oaragraphs from me?

This is becoming more interesting to me because if some of these pieces starting moving around and "landing" in long term spots then it throws off Lebron's plans for 2018, which obviously involves cp3 and westbrook, and maybe pg13. At the least it makes him spend a season slogging through the mush in cleveland on a lebron-love-tristan-jr-bledsoe team that is no kinda threat to GSW and will lose by 40 pts to them any game

Im not saying youre wrong, I 100% agree with you. Lebron doesn't go deep in the playoffs without Kyrie. It's not even an argument.

Vee-Rex
08-16-2017, 12:56 AM
Im not saying youre wrong, I 100% agree with you. Lebron doesn't go deep in the playoffs without Kyrie. It's not even an argument.

He already did in 2014-15.

Kyrie played a total of what, 40'ish TOTAL minutes in the ECF sweep against the 60 win 1st seeded Hawks?

WaDe03
08-16-2017, 09:47 AM
Im not saying youre wrong, I 100% agree with you. Lebron doesn't go deep in the playoffs without Kyrie. It's not even an argument.

Lmao!

Vinylman
08-16-2017, 12:25 PM
Copy text before hitting submit, you should have figured it out after the first **** up but hey, you're a KD fan, just quit and blame the site for your inability to adapt or write on ****ing notepad.

lol

yeah... I am a KD fan :eyebrow:

Although ... I do like ***** so maybe I am a fan :clap:

prodigy
08-16-2017, 01:41 PM
This. Players do not want to play in Cleveland.

I bet 1 trillion dollars if lebron leaves cavs will have a 15 player team. wanna take that bet?

prodigy
08-16-2017, 01:53 PM
There will always be players willing to accept $35M to play in Cleveland.

its just so funny. Warriors were a trash team, organization and fan base for years. Then bam the sun shined on them (great job finally by the front office) as they drafted 3 very good players. Durant was to scared so he joined them. Now everyone acts like Warriors were the dream landing spot for FA's LMAO! The NBA has become very predictable. Great players follow great players. If Cleveland has a good team they will always be in the running for good players. Just like any good team would be.

prodigy
08-16-2017, 01:58 PM
I just don't understand peoples thinking. Lakers are not a dream destination either. if they were why have they been bad for a handful of years now? how many good players signed contracts with current or different teams in that span but not with the Lakers? Lakers are a good landing spot if they are good. Just like any other team. lol

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 02:01 PM
Just for fun, how many games do the Thunder/Warriors win without the defection? Could KD have taken down this weaker Cavs team? What would THAT have done for his legacy. I honestly think he could have done it and made a massive leap in the AT rankings, now hes just in this sort of purgatory where nobody worth their salt respects his accomplishment thus far but nobody is stupid enough to deny that hes really really good. Its like its gonna take a 4 peet or something and even then I might just end up disgusted at the whole thing. I really hope basketball gets interesting again cuz its gon be a long 5 years without any sort of manly basketball.

If Durant had re-signed with OKC, I think they still lose to GS in a close series. At the very least, there is more of an even playing field.

Yeah, Durant is tainted for me. **** him.

My Wolves become relevant again, and this **** happens. Whatever

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 02:02 PM
Im not saying youre wrong, I 100% agree with you. Lebron doesn't go deep in the playoffs without Kyrie. It's not even an argument.

yes, he does. he already did, and he would again. In fact, he has multiple times.

WaDe03
08-16-2017, 02:11 PM
I bet 1 trillion dollars if lebron leaves cavs will have a 15 player team. wanna take that bet?

Should've been more specific, good players don't want to play there. They won't bring in any top tier FAs signing in Cleveland so you better hope the NBA rigs the draft lottery for you a few more times or there's another hometown hero after LeBron.

Scoots
08-16-2017, 03:25 PM
I bet 1 trillion dollars if lebron leaves cavs will have a 15 player team. wanna take that bet?

Careful ... teams often go into the season with 14 player rosters for flexibility :) I bet Gilbert would take that bet with you.

Scoots
08-16-2017, 03:27 PM
its just so funny. Warriors were a trash team, organization and fan base for years. Then bam the sun shined on them (great job finally by the front office) as they drafted 3 very good players. Durant was to scared so he joined them. Now everyone acts like Warriors were the dream landing spot for FA's LMAO! The NBA has become very predictable. Great players follow great players. If Cleveland has a good team they will always be in the running for good players. Just like any good team would be.

I agree the Warriors were a trash team (it always seems to come down to the owner sucking). The fan base was exceptionally good though. The bandwagon fans (and some others) kind of suck right now for sure.

Chronz
08-16-2017, 05:00 PM
There will always be players willing to accept $35M to play in Cleveland.

Question is, would any other team offer that money o those players to get them there, would they even need to? How much would Cleveland have to overspend to keep that player if they were lucky enough to sway him, we've already seen how high their luxury tax got for players with very little value in comparison to their salary. I know its a long time ago but back in Bron's early dominance, Cleveland went after Ray Allen (who was traded to Seattle midseason), when the tier 1 star declined they went to the tier 2 list, when Michael Redd (the native ffs) said no, they were forced to overpay for Larry Hughes and IIRC, they only got him cuz Washington looked at the price and smartly traded for a replacement who wound up having the better career thereafter.

So yes, Im sure Cleveland can spend money, will it be worth it? How much can Cleveland do when the opposition snuck in talent, in part as a result of timing. The reason Cleveland wants a youngster/rook is because those are the best values once the player gets his feet wet, teams rarely improve by throwing huge money at guys who dont deserve it.

Chronz
08-16-2017, 05:03 PM
If Durant had re-signed with OKC, I think they still lose to GS in a close series. At the very least, there is more of an even playing field.

Yeah, Durant is tainted for me. **** him.

My Wolves become relevant again, and this **** happens. Whatever

Contraction would be the answer, let everyone BUT GS take part in a cont-draft. Clips take your boy Towns, would you convert?

Vee-Rex
08-16-2017, 05:13 PM
Should've been more specific, good players don't want to play there. They won't bring in any top tier FAs signing in Cleveland so you better hope the NBA rigs the draft lottery for you a few more times or there's another hometown hero after LeBron.

Good players don't wanna play anywhere there aren't already good players these days. That goes for the entire NBA, big markets aside. And even that is overblown nowadays. How many big time free agents have the Knicks signed over the past 20 years?

WaDe03
08-16-2017, 05:16 PM
Good players don't wanna play anywhere there aren't already good players these days. That goes for the entire NBA, big markets aside. And even that is overblown nowadays. How many big time free agents have the Knicks signed over the past 20 years?

Good point, probably just Melo.

Scoots
08-16-2017, 05:33 PM
Question is, would any other team offer that money o those players to get them there, would they even need to? How much would Cleveland have to overspend to keep that player if they were lucky enough to sway him, we've already seen how high their luxury tax got for players with very little value in comparison to their salary. I know its a long time ago but back in Bron's early dominance, Cleveland went after Ray Allen (who was traded to Seattle midseason), when the tier 1 star declined they went to the tier 2 list, when Michael Redd (the native ffs) said no, they were forced to overpay for Larry Hughes and IIRC, they only got him cuz Washington looked at the price and smartly traded for a replacement who wound up having the better career thereafter.

So yes, Im sure Cleveland can spend money, will it be worth it? How much can Cleveland do when the opposition snuck in talent, in part as a result of timing. The reason Cleveland wants a youngster/rook is because those are the best values once the player gets his feet wet, teams rarely improve by throwing huge money at guys who dont deserve it.

They probably will not get a player "worth" the money.

prodigy
08-19-2017, 01:39 PM
Careful ... teams often go into the season with 14 player rosters for flexibility :) I bet Gilbert would take that bet with you.

I wouldn't take it with Gilbert seeing how he's the owner... lol