PDA

View Full Version : 2018 Free agency



Pages : [1] 2

WaDe03
07-28-2017, 10:08 AM
Oh my god! Really man?! Of course you had to mention KD and the Warriors in your post! Just rubbing it in everyone's face that your team is the best and everyone else sucks, I thought you were better than that!

Look at me....I'm the OP now!

Scoots
07-28-2017, 10:09 AM
Last year 27 teams came into free agency with cap space around 60 free agents were signed with that space and $5B was spent. This year 14 teams came into free agency with cap space, only 22 players were signed with that space and $3B was spent.

Those 2 years combined with the flat cap now has only 9 teams being projected to enter free agency next year with cap space.

LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, DeMarcus Cousins, DeAndre Jordan and Isaiah Thomas are the top names for free agency next year, and the Bulls ($50M), Sixers ($40M), Hawks ($40M), and Lakers ($30M) will have money to spend like it's 2016.

If the Cavs, Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, and Celtics re-sign their top free agents they will collectively be paying nearly $300M in taxes for that season (with the Cavs and Thunder being the biggest spenders on tax by far).

The middle-tier free agents next year will have to settle for MUCH smaller deals than they want ... and probably than they are worth. It's not a good time to be a free agent if you are not a "star".

Hawkeye15
07-28-2017, 10:14 AM
The summer of 2016 is going to get a lot of agents fired next year. The money will still go to the stars, then your Evan Turners, Timothy Mosgov's, etc, of the world, aren't getting ****.

Next summer will be hilarious. The taxes coming up for some teams are going to amazing..

WaDe03
07-28-2017, 10:18 AM
I thought my Lakers would have 60M?

hugepatsfan
07-28-2017, 10:18 AM
It's back to what it always was. The huge cap spike created a wild spending spree but now teams are caught up to the cap just like they were before.

The taxpayer's MLE is terrible for players. They should fight to get tax teams the full amount to infuse some money back into the market.

Scoots
07-28-2017, 10:24 AM
Oh my god! Really man?! Of course you had to mention KD and the Warriors in your post! Just rubbing it in everyone's face that your team is the best and everyone else sucks, I thought you were better than that!

Look at me....I'm the OP now!

LOL. Sorry for listing the top free agents by actually listing the top free agents :)

Scoots
07-28-2017, 10:25 AM
I thought my Lakers would have 60M?

Heat, Bulls, Lakers ... which team is next eDu ... erm ... Wade?

The Lakers "can" have $60M but they have to make some moves to get there.

Scoots
07-28-2017, 10:29 AM
It's back to what it always was. The huge cap spike created a wild spending spree but now teams are caught up to the cap just like they were before.

The taxpayer's MLE is terrible for players. They should fight to get tax teams the full amount to infuse some money back into the market.

With half of the NBA being taxpayers they will essentially HAVE to re-sign their own players or lose talent.

There is a real possibilty that 2/3 of the teams will be tax payers after next off-season.

Vinylman
07-28-2017, 10:46 AM
It's back to what it always was. The huge cap spike created a wild spending spree but now teams are caught up to the cap just like they were before.

The taxpayer's MLE is terrible for players. They should fight to get tax teams the full amount to infuse some money back into the market.

actually it is way worse because the signings in 2016 were based on horribly forecasted numbers... the expected increases to the cap only materialized in 2016... teams were counting on the cap to continue to expand SIGNIFICANTLY and it isn't going to.

Easiest way to resolve all this is for the owners to vote on a one player amnesty per team.

The players won't care because it will free up more money for the marketplace as all it does is shift the money from taxes back to players.

as far as the tax payer mle ... **** the players... they created the problem by not smoothing the cap... they reap what they sow...

WaDe03
07-28-2017, 10:55 AM
Heat, Bulls, Lakers ... which team is next eDu ... erm ... Wade?

The Lakers "can" have $60M but they have to make some moves to get there.

Maybe the Warriors, trust me. :nod:

WaDe03
07-28-2017, 10:57 AM
That's what teams get for banding role players near 20M a year.

WaDe03
07-28-2017, 11:00 AM
You are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Trust me :nod: :hi5:

Thank you, trust me on this one. :clap:

Scoots
07-28-2017, 11:01 AM
Maybe the Warriors, trust me. :nod:

You are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Trust me :nod: :hi5:

Hawkeye15
07-28-2017, 12:02 PM
actually it is way worse because the signings in 2016 were based on horribly forecasted numbers... the expected increases to the cap only materialized in 2016... teams were counting on the cap to continue to expand SIGNIFICANTLY and it isn't going to.

Easiest way to resolve all this is for the owners to vote on a one player amnesty per team.

The players won't care because it will free up more money for the marketplace as all it does is shift the money from taxes back to players.

as far as the tax payer mle ... **** the players... they created the problem by not smoothing the cap... they reap what they sow...

yet again rewarding stupidity. Not a fan.

dhopisthename
07-28-2017, 12:20 PM
yet again rewarding stupidity. Not a fan.

yep. it also punishes the teams that were smart with their money.

Vinylman
07-28-2017, 12:37 PM
yep. it also punishes the teams that were smart with their money.

who was that?

Vinylman
07-28-2017, 12:44 PM
yet again rewarding stupidity. Not a fan.

yes and no... they made decisions based on the information in hand at time (summer of 2016)... it really is more the leagues fault for not being able to forecast the cap better... it isn't even close to what it was suppose to be this summer 2017 (originally projected at $107 million).

That is a shortfall of $240 million in year one across all teams...

Hawkeye15
07-28-2017, 01:19 PM
yes and no... they made decisions based on the information in hand at time (summer of 2016)... it really is more the leagues fault for not being able to forecast the cap better... it isn't even close to what it was suppose to be this summer 2017 (originally projected at $107 million).

That is a shortfall of $240 million in year one across all teams...

to be fair, a perfect example of stupidity is giving Evan Turner $18 million a year. I don't care what the cap guess is.

And, I am just salty. My team didn't get stupid and spend a bunch of money, so it would be round 2 of teams getting an amnesty, without my team having a deal that fits...therefore boo

Scoots
07-28-2017, 02:04 PM
yes and no... they made decisions based on the information in hand at time (summer of 2016)... it really is more the leagues fault for not being able to forecast the cap better... it isn't even close to what it was suppose to be this summer 2017 (originally projected at $107 million).

That is a shortfall of $240 million in year one across all teams...

Not entirely. Bad contracts are bad even if the cap was $107M. The lower cap just made the bad contracts more painful.

Scoots
07-28-2017, 02:08 PM
to be fair, a perfect example of stupidity is giving Evan Turner $18 million a year. I don't care what the cap guess is.

And, I am just salty. My team didn't get stupid and spend a bunch of money, so it would be round 2 of teams getting an amnesty, without my team having a deal that fits...therefore boo

If the cap was $300M then Evan Turner is worth $18M I guess.

And I'm against the amnesty because it's a weird little loophole for teams to get out of bad deals. I'd rather go to something more like the NFL system of signing bonuses so more of the money is already spent and the players are more tradeable.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-28-2017, 03:30 PM
NBA should take notes from the NFL. Unguaranteed contracts but have signing bonuses. Also have free agency before the draft.

AllBall
07-28-2017, 03:46 PM
Oh my god! Really man?! Of course you had to mention KD and the Warriors in your post! Just rubbing it in everyone's face that your team is the best and everyone else sucks, I thought you were better than that!

Look at me....I'm the OP now!

PSD forum software sucks balls, lol

Hawkeye15
07-28-2017, 03:54 PM
If the cap was $300M then Evan Turner is worth $18M I guess.

And I'm against the amnesty because it's a weird little loophole for teams to get out of bad deals. I'd rather go to something more like the NFL system of signing bonuses so more of the money is already spent and the players are more tradeable.

I'd rather teams just pay for their mistakes.

Hawkeye15
07-28-2017, 03:55 PM
NBA should take notes from the NFL. Unguaranteed contracts but have signing bonuses. Also have free agency before the draft.

players union would strike for 3 years before they accepted non-guaranteed deals. The only reason it works in football is the injuries.

dhopisthename
07-28-2017, 04:09 PM
who was that?

well one team for instance, the jazz. they could have signed either joe johnson or luol deng, but deng wanted 4 years and the jazz knew it would be a bad idea. so now they will have a ton of cap space which will be amazing in a year when not every team has cap space.

GiantsSwaGG
07-28-2017, 04:25 PM
And you are AllBall. Congrats.

:laugh:

Scoots
07-28-2017, 04:25 PM
NBA should take notes from the NFL. Unguaranteed contracts but have signing bonuses. Also have free agency before the draft.

Guaranteed contracts are not going anywhere. That's a full stop for any negotiations with the union. They are not dumb enough to give it up now that they have it. But I agree on the signing bonuses. If money is moved into bonuses the players become more tradeable.

Scoots
07-28-2017, 04:26 PM
PSD forum software sucks balls, lol

And you are AllBall. Congrats.

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 12:05 PM
to be fair, a perfect example of stupidity is giving Evan Turner $18 million a year. I don't care what the cap guess is.

And, I am just salty. My team didn't get stupid and spend a bunch of money, so it would be round 2 of teams getting an amnesty, without my team having a deal that fits...therefore boo

One example...

His number was easily manageable if the cap had gone to 107...

In pure economic terms with the projections in hand (summer 2016)... none of those annual rates are bad... the length of some of those deals could be questionable but there are much bigger issues with the CBA that unfairly benefit teams.

If you are gonna have carve outs for TPE, MLE's, vet mins, etc... then why not amnesty?

Picking and choosing which exceptions are ok is fundamentally arbitrary

So why choose any

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 12:15 PM
Not entirely. Bad contracts are bad even if the cap was $107M. The lower cap just made the bad contracts more painful.

Again... the annual rates on those deals aren't bad... it is the length of the deals that are objectionable to most.

The Nba model is garbage at this point ... picking and choosing exceptions is arbitrary and fundamentally kills parity by keeping the strong teams strong...

When fans have more interest in the offseason than the actual season it is an indictment of the product.

The NBA is completely ****ed if LBJ goes west next year because no one and I mean no one will watch the finals.

The entire economic model will spiral downward

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 12:22 PM
well one team for instance, the jazz. they could have signed either joe johnson or luol deng, but deng wanted 4 years and the jazz knew it would be a bad idea. so now they will have a ton of cap space which will be amazing in a year when not every team has cap space.

A ton of cap?

How do you figure that?

Btw... you will only have some cap because you couldn't even sign your own best player in spite of being able to offer way more money than Boston

I feel bad dor small market teams who don't understand how screwed they are long term

Scoots
07-29-2017, 12:36 PM
Again... the annual rates on those deals aren't bad... it is the length of the deals that are objectionable to most.

The Nba model is garbage at this point ... picking and choosing exceptions is arbitrary and fundamentally kills parity by keeping the strong teams strong...

When fans have more interest in the offseason than the actual season it is an indictment of the product.

The NBA is completely ****ed if LBJ goes west next year because no one and I mean no one will watch the finals.

The entire economic model will spiral downward

But you know you are wrong.

Of course the exceptions used are chosen carefully, and we have no say in the matter. We are just expressing opinions.

Fans don't have more interest in the offseason ... the crazies posting in online forums might, but even that's debatable.

People will always watch the finals. My sister couldn't care less about the NBA but to her the finals is an opportunity to have a party, just like the Super Bowl and the World Series ... she doesn't know any hockey fans.

The economic model's spiral has very little to do with the NBA's on court product and more to do with the splintering of the way entertainment is consumed.

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 12:47 PM
But you know you are wrong.

Of course the exceptions used are chosen carefully, and we have no say in the matter. We are just expressing opinions.

Fans don't have more interest in the offseason ... the crazies posting in online forums might, but even that's debatable.

People will always watch the finals. My sister couldn't care less about the NBA but to her the finals is an opportunity to have a party, just like the Super Bowl and the World Series ... she doesn't know any hockey fans.

The economic model's spiral has very little to do with the NBA's on court product and more to do with the splintering of the way entertainment is consumed.

Spoken like a true front runner

Your willingness to completely ignore the structural problems of the NBA can only be appreciated by a fan of a team who can reap the benefits of the arbitrary exceptions of the cba..

Enjoy it while it lasts...

On a final note... no LBJ in the finals and viewership will hit unprecedented depths.. if you don't understand that I feel sorry for you

Scoots
07-29-2017, 01:01 PM
Spoken like a true front runner

Your willingness to completely ignore the structural problems of the NBA can only be appreciated by a fan of a team who can reap the benefits of the arbitrary exceptions of the cba..

Enjoy it while it lasts...

On a final note... no LBJ in the finals and viewership will hit unprecedented depths.. if you don't understand that I feel sorry for you

My opinion on these things haven't changed in literal decades.

You said no one would watch the finals. You are wrong. The numbers may go down, but not anywhere close to 0, nor to their lowest historical levels.

mavwar53
07-29-2017, 01:11 PM
NBA should take notes from the NFL. Unguaranteed contracts but have signing bonuses. Also have free agency before the draft.

What I think they should take from the NFL is compensation for signing RFA.

Would the blazers matched Alan Crabbe last year if he was offered 4yr 60M if they put a 2 1st round picks value on him?

Maybe give the team a chance to match but also give the team with the player a chance to put a value on a player. No more than 3 1st round picks. So D'Angelo Russell becomes a RFA, Nets puts a 2 1st round value on him. Orlando signs him to a 4yr 48 mil deal instead of feeling there only chance of signing him is 4yr 95M because why would NJ want to lose him for nothing unless a team over pays to the extreme. If you give teams a reason not to overpay (giving up 2 picks) you will see a much more fair value for the RFAs.

I know it's tougher than the NFL because of how many rounds but I'm sure something similar could be worked out.

Scoots
07-29-2017, 01:20 PM
This thread isn't really about free agency anymore :)

Here's a rule change proposal for you ... hard cap adjusted for local, no other restrictions on roster building. No draft, no max contracts, no rookie contracts, no guaranteed contracts, no max length, no minimum length, no maximum roster size, no minimum roster size. Every team on an equal footing.

dhopisthename
07-29-2017, 01:41 PM
A ton of cap?

How do you figure that?

Btw... you will only have some cap because you couldn't even sign your own best player in spite of being able to offer way more money than Boston

I feel bad dor small market teams who don't understand how screwed they are long term

the problem is that with the current nba structure we really couldn't offer more than boston. it came down to like 4 million more. The Jazz will be at around the 68 million mark with very small cap hold for Hood, and needing to resign exum and Favors. they probably won't be able to sign someone and that's a huge problem, but that's an entirely different discussion.

dhopisthename
07-29-2017, 01:43 PM
This thread isn't really about free agency anymore :)

Here's a rule change proposal for you ... hard cap adjusted for local, no other restrictions on roster building. No draft, no max contracts, no rookie contracts, no guaranteed contracts, no max length, no minimum length, no maximum roster size, no minimum roster size. Every team on an equal footing.

I think the adjusted for local would be a really big deal if something like this ever happened. a place like LA and NY can offer more just because a player can get more sponsorships in LA.

Scoots
07-29-2017, 02:09 PM
I think the adjusted for local would be a really big deal if something like this ever happened. a place like LA and NY can offer more just because a player can get more sponsorships in LA.

I think that's a much smaller issue than it used to be with the internet and the general dispersal of content creation. The cost of living in LA is WAY higher than it is in San Antonio, and that plus the lack of a Texas income tax would give LA both positive adjustments, so it would be difficult, but if the hard cap was all in (not just players, but practice facilities, coaches, trainers, everything) the ancillary benefits of obscenely rich owners would be mitigated.

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 02:36 PM
the problem is that with the current nba structure we really couldn't offer more than boston. it came down to like 4 million more. The Jazz will be at around the 68 million mark with very small cap hold for Hood, and needing to resign exum and Favors. they probably won't be able to sign someone and that's a huge problem, but that's an entirely different discussion.

You have more than that committed for next year with no cap holds for favors exum or hood

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 02:41 PM
My opinion on these things haven't changed in literal decades.

You said no one would watch the finals. You are wrong. The numbers may go down, but not anywhere close to 0, nor to their lowest historical levels.

You'll see

Mark my words the shock to the system is coming

Do you understand what happens to the cap if viewership of the playoffs drops 10% ?

You don't think that can happen?

Enjoy your teams run... the cap explosion hit perfectly for the dubs along with securing the biggest coward in the history of the league

Scoots
07-29-2017, 03:11 PM
You'll see

Mark my words the shock to the system is coming

Do you understand what happens to the cap if viewership of the playoffs drops 10% ?

You don't think that can happen?

Enjoy your teams run... the cap explosion hit perfectly for the dubs along with securing the biggest coward in the history of the league

Nothing happens to the cap that I know of if viewership drops 10%. Now the next TV deals are going to be a huge problem but that is several years in the future and again is more about the way TV viewership is changing in general than about the NBA product. I started a thread about the cap and NBA revenue issues in the future early in the season and many said I was crazy. It's coming, but it's not about the popularity of the NBA.

I didn't say anything about a drop in viewership. You said both that nobody would watch and that an unprecedented few would watch and both of those things are not true.

I am enjoying the Warriors success, and I've been saying all along that KD wouldn't have been possible without the current deal.

Vinylman
07-29-2017, 03:50 PM
Nothing happens to the cap that I know of if viewership drops 10%. Now the next TV deals are going to be a huge problem but that is several years in the future and again is more about the way TV viewership is changing in general than about the NBA product. I started a thread about the cap and NBA revenue issues in the future early in the season and many said I was crazy. It's coming, but it's not about the popularity of the NBA.

I didn't say anything about a drop in viewership. You said both that nobody would watch and that an unprecedented few would watch and both of those things are not true.

I am enjoying the Warriors success, and I've been saying all along that KD wouldn't have been possible without the current deal.

Dude

Have you not been paying attention?

Viewership of the playoffs WAS the reason for the final cap adjustment

You aren't under some naive belief that tv deals are fixed revenue because they aren't. The bulk of it is variable

dhopisthename
07-29-2017, 05:05 PM
You have more than that committed for next year with no cap holds for favors exum or hood

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah_jazz/

76 million. I am pretty sure I read that sefolosha and udoh are team options so that takes us to 68 and if not its still 76 million which for next year is looking really good with all the teams who won't have cap space.

dhopisthename
07-29-2017, 05:07 PM
Dude

Have you not been paying attention?

Viewership of the playoffs WAS the reason for the final cap adjustment

You aren't under some naive belief that tv deals are fixed revenue because they aren't. The bulk of it is variable

wrong
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2017/05/espns-abcs-2017-nba-playoffs-viewership-five-percent/

viewership was up, but there only being 5 finals games and in general there being fewer games meant that they couldn't watch as much.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-29-2017, 06:12 PM
Last year 27 teams came into free agency with cap space around 60 free agents were signed with that space and $5B was spent. This year 14 teams came into free agency with cap space, only 22 players were signed with that space and $3B was spent.

Those 2 years combined with the flat cap now has only 9 teams being projected to enter free agency next year with cap space.

LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, DeMarcus Cousins, DeAndre Jordan and Isaiah Thomas are the top names for free agency next year, and the Bulls ($50M), Sixers ($40M), Hawks ($40M), and Lakers ($30M) will have money to spend like it's 2016.

If the Cavs, Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, and Celtics re-sign their top free agents they will collectively be paying nearly $300M in taxes for that season (with the Cavs and Thunder being the biggest spenders on tax by far).

The middle-tier free agents next year will have to settle for MUCH smaller deals than they want ... and probably than they are worth. It's not a good time to be a free agent if you are not a "star".

lol I made this point a few weeks ago and you said "oh teams will just create space."

Scoots
07-30-2017, 12:30 AM
lol I made this point a few weeks ago and you said "oh teams will just create space."

I don't think so.

Scoots
07-30-2017, 12:31 AM
Dude

Have you not been paying attention?

Viewership of the playoffs WAS the reason for the final cap adjustment

You aren't under some naive belief that tv deals are fixed revenue because they aren't. The bulk of it is variable

Playoff viewership was NOT the reason. The small number of playoff games was.

Vinylman
07-30-2017, 06:36 PM
wrong
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2017/05/espns-abcs-2017-nba-playoffs-viewership-five-percent/

viewership was up, but there only being 5 finals games and in general there being fewer games meant that they couldn't watch as much.

Lmfao

Viewership per game is irrelevant... also your article is incomplete because it is only for abc and not TNT nor does it cover the finals

Here is the financial impact of the ****** playoff numbers which are the basis of the tv deals

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/06/14/how-tv-actually-lost-the-nba-postseason-even-with-ratings-up-for-finals/#2592152460dd

This will only get worse moving forward

Vinylman
07-30-2017, 06:38 PM
Playoff viewership was NOT the reason. The small number of playoff games was.

Where did I say per game in that post?

****** viewership is why the cap was lower... read the Forbes article

Balltime
07-30-2017, 07:04 PM
Last year 27 teams came into free agency with cap space around 60 free agents were signed with that space and $5B was spent. This year 14 teams came into free agency with cap space, only 22 players were signed with that space and $3B was spent.

Those 2 years combined with the flat cap now has only 9 teams being projected to enter free agency next year with cap space.

LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, DeMarcus Cousins, DeAndre Jordan and Isaiah Thomas are the top names for free agency next year, and the Bulls ($50M), Sixers ($40M), Hawks ($40M), and Lakers ($30M) will have money to spend like it's 2016.

If the Cavs, Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, and Celtics re-sign their top free agents they will collectively be paying nearly $300M in taxes for that season (with the Cavs and Thunder being the biggest spenders on tax by far).

The middle-tier free agents next year will have to settle for MUCH smaller deals than they want ... and probably than they are worth. It's not a good time to be a free agent if you are not a "star".

Lakers will have more than 40 mill, closer to 50 mill of cap space available for 2018. Plus they might have more if they can dump off Deng contract.

Scoots
07-30-2017, 09:41 PM
Where did I say per game in that post?

****** viewership is why the cap was lower... read the Forbes article

You are arguing that I said "per game" quoting a post of mine where I say nothing about per game.

I have read that article and many others. Please show me where it says that TV ratings effected the cap, which is your assertion that I was saying was incorrect.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-31-2017, 09:17 AM
Lakers will have more than 40 mill, closer to 50 mill of cap space available for 2018. Plus they might have more if they can dump off Deng contract.

It will be interesting how Lakers dump Deng next year. Since Randle is RFA in 2018. Be commanding a payday. Clarkson is so so. What the Lakers give up to dump Deng? Who has cap next year to eat Deng? I think teams wont be so lenient this time around. Once the league see's Lakers landing PG 13 maybe. Then trying to dump payroll for a second star. It wont be so easy without some help. One future first may not cut it. Randle on a new extension wont be a asset at a high price. You almost have to hope Clarkson steps it up this season to be a package deal to dump Deng at this seasons trade deadline with maybe a pick included as well. That's isn't to enticing either really. Not to many teams like the Nets left that are gullible.

warfelg
07-31-2017, 10:07 AM
It will be interesting how Lakers dump Deng next year. Since Randle is RFA in 2018. Be commanding a payday. Clarkson is so so. What the Lakers give up to dump Deng? Who has cap next year to eat Deng? I think teams wont be so lenient this time around. Once the league see's Lakers landing PG 13 maybe. Then trying to dump payroll for a second star. It wont be so easy without some help. One future first may not cut it. Randle on a new extension wont be a asset at a high price. You almost have to hope Clarkson steps it up this season to be a package deal to dump Deng at this seasons trade deadline with maybe a pick included as well. That's isn't to enticing either really. Not to many teams like the Nets left that are gullible.

Dumping Deng is going to take something big.

Like, Ingram or Zubak/Nance will have to be added to that in order to get Deng off the books. Or multiple future firsts.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-31-2017, 10:36 AM
Could be pretty risky when all said and done then for the Lakers. If PG13 changes his mind and stays with Thunder. Oh boy. That could change the minds of other stars planning on teaming up there. Still maybe a chance LeBron joins the Lakers even without PG13. But the tough west. LeBron could get ticked pretty quick if things don't go well.

Maybe Cavs get lucky midseason and LeBron says he will waive his no trade clause for Lakers? Then Lakers offer up expiring Lopez and Ingram and putrid Deng and pick(s)for LeBron. I didn't check the salaries. Maybe Cavs have to toss in a salary filler like Shumpert and Frye. Probably even need a third or forth team to get it done.

Vinylman
07-31-2017, 11:58 AM
Playoff viewership was NOT the reason. The small number of playoff games was.

I am going to requite this as this is what I said... viewership was absolutely the reason the cap went down...

your definition of viewership can only be interpreted by the above response on some per game basis. There is no arguing that there were less eyes watching the NBA playoffs than had been planned or did the prior year...

THAT IS VIEWERSHIP...

If you add up every game watched this year and every game watched last year... less people watched the playoffs in 2017 for whatever reason (less games/less interest) ... ESPN's and TNT's payments to the league are based on total viewership which creates an ad revenue block... that ad revenue was clearly down (as reported by forbes) which lowers the variable tv payments to the league which in turn was one of the reasons for the lower than planned cap being announced.

The League has a significant problem... less people are watching the playoffs and as I stated in another post... No LBJ in the finals next year and there will be a MASSIVE reduction in viewership again which impact the cap for next year AGAIN

Vinylman
07-31-2017, 12:00 PM
You are arguing that I said "per game" quoting a post of mine where I say nothing about per game.

I have read that article and many others. Please show me where it says that TV ratings effected the cap, which is your assertion that I was saying was incorrect.


Like I said... I have only used the term viewership... viewership has nothing to do with "RATINGS"

Vinylman
07-31-2017, 12:23 PM
Dumping Deng is going to take something big.

Like, Ingram or Zubak/Nance will have to be added to that in order to get Deng off the books. Or multiple future firsts.

it won't be easy but the value has been established...

It is basically a D Carroll deal which wasn't to bad...

I think the thing people are sleeping on is that if PG13 tells OKC he is leaving no matter what then he can be traded before FA like CP3 was this year.... Assuming the Lakers are tampering and know that LBJ is coming they will not really care if the deal looks like

Deng/2 future firsts/ and one or two of the young guys not named Ball or Ingram

If they can do a trade and get PG13 to opt in it is huge for their pursuit of 2 other stars...

at that point I think anybody not named Ball would be available via trade...

Does anyone really think the Lakers or OKC turns down the following in a trade before FA begins if both guys tell OKC they are leaving:

Westie/PG13 for Deng / Clarkson / Ingram / Ball / a future first ?

I know I don't think that will be rejected.

They could still add LBJ after a deal like that

Scoots
07-31-2017, 12:30 PM
I am going to requite this as this is what I said... viewership was absolutely the reason the cap went down...

your definition of viewership can only be interpreted by the above response on some per game basis. There is no arguing that there were less eyes watching the NBA playoffs than had been planned or did the prior year...

THAT IS VIEWERSHIP...

If you add up every game watched this year and every game watched last year... less people watched the playoffs in 2017 for whatever reason (less games/less interest) ... ESPN's and TNT's payments to the league are based on total viewership which creates an ad revenue block... that ad revenue was clearly down (as reported by forbes) which lowers the variable tv payments to the league which in turn was one of the reasons for the lower than planned cap being announced.

The League has a significant problem... less people are watching the playoffs and as I stated in another post... No LBJ in the finals next year and there will be a MASSIVE reduction in viewership again which impact the cap for next year AGAIN

Viewership IS ratings. "Less people are watching the playoffs" is a false statement. "People" are individuals ... "Viewership" is a count of people per show. You also mentioned "eyes" as a scale ... eyes are just another way of saying people. There were less playoffs for the same people to watch. Fewer people watching the playoffs has no effect on the cap. Fewer games for the people to watch DOES have an effect on the cap.

Please show me somewhere in an article where it says "viewership" has an effect on the cap. Not games, but viewership.

As for next year there being a massive reduction in your definition of viewership? It's incredibly unlikely because there almost can't be fewer games next year.

Oakmont_4
07-31-2017, 02:12 PM
it won't be easy but the value has been established...

It is basically a D Carroll deal which wasn't to bad...

I think the thing people are sleeping on is that if PG13 tells OKC he is leaving no matter what then he can be traded before FA like CP3 was this year.... Assuming the Lakers are tampering and know that LBJ is coming they will not really care if the deal looks like

Deng/2 future firsts/ and one or two of the young guys not named Ball or Ingram

If they can do a trade and get PG13 to opt in it is huge for their pursuit of 2 other stars...

at that point I think anybody not named Ball would be available via trade...

Does anyone really think the Lakers or OKC turns down the following in a trade before FA begins if both guys tell OKC they are leaving:

Westie/PG13 for Deng / Clarkson / Ingram / Ball / a future first ?

I know I don't think that will be rejected.

They could still add LBJ after a deal like that

It's possible. Not likely. They'd each need to take pay cuts. The 3 would cost more than $90M all together. With a $102M salary cap and accounting for roster spot holds there isn't quite enough for them all to get full MAX. And then you have to fill about 8 roster spots with vet minimum deals. Not sure how appealing that will be for them because those 3 alone aren't going to beat GS.

Not to mention...No I do not think OKC would do that deal. Even if both players say they're going to opt out at year end...They'll still ride out the 1 full season with them and see what happens.

Vinylman
07-31-2017, 02:46 PM
It's possible. Not likely. They'd each need to take pay cuts. The 3 would cost more than $90M all together. With a $102M salary cap and accounting for roster spot holds there isn't quite enough for them all to get full MAX. And then you have to fill about 8 roster spots with vet minimum deals. Not sure how appealing that will be for them because those 3 alone aren't going to beat GS.

Not to mention...No I do not think OKC would do that deal. Even if both players say they're going to opt out at year end...They'll still ride out the 1 full season with them and see what happens.

couple things...

bolded... I am talking about AFTER next season is over... there is nothing to ride out at that point... they can both opt out before 2018 FA but because they have player options they can opt in with their new teams.

second... if PG13 comes in a trade his cap number for 2018/19 is only $20 million (assuming he opts in)... westy's would be 30 which is lower than his open market number.

All I am saying is that the Lakers will have a lot of tools at their disposal to build a team next summer if those guys want to play together... especially if they want to sacrifice money.

I by no means give any of that more than a 10% chance

LaVar Ball
07-31-2017, 07:04 PM
Dumping Deng is going to take something big.

Like, Ingram or Zubak/Nance will have to be added to that in order to get Deng off the books. Or multiple future firsts.

This.


After the Lakers 2018 draft pick is officially made, the Lakers can then trade their 2019 and 2021 picks and package them with what I would assume to be Deng + Clarkson.


But the rest of your post is completely inaccurate and nonsensical.


You don't trade a cornerstone like Ingram to just to get rid of Deng's contract unless you're getting a borderline all-star/superstar back in return. To get rid of Deng's contract and get an expiring contract of a crappy player in return, it's gonna take a pairing of Clarkson with 2 first rounders.

GREATNESS ONE
07-31-2017, 07:22 PM
Lolz VinylMan has been unleashed.

GREATNESS ONE
07-31-2017, 07:23 PM
This.


After the Lakers 2018 draft pick is officially made, the Lakers can then trade their 2019 and 2021 picks and package them with what I would assume to be Deng + Clarkson.


But the rest of your post is completely inaccurate and nonsensical.


You don't trade a cornerstone like Ingram to just to get rid of Deng's contract unless you're getting a borderline all-star/superstar back in return. To get rid of Deng's contract and get an expiring contract of a crappy player in return, it's gonna take a pairing of Clarkson with 2 first rounders.

Dr. Lavar Ball here speaking knowledge.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-02-2017, 10:21 AM
This.


After the Lakers 2018 draft pick is officially made, the Lakers can then trade their 2019 and 2021 picks and package them with what I would assume to be Deng + Clarkson.


But the rest of your post is completely inaccurate and nonsensical.


You don't trade a cornerstone like Ingram to just to get rid of Deng's contract unless you're getting a borderline all-star/superstar back in return. To get rid of Deng's contract and get an expiring contract of a crappy player in return, it's gonna take a pairing of Clarkson with 2 first rounders.

Depends on the protections of them future Lakers first round picks. Cause my Bucks have big expiring Moose and Hawes package. But even Clarkson is negative as well at this point. So if the protections are like top 15 lottery protected good luck moving Deng. Also the deal has to be this year if you plan on luring a star here next summer with PG13.

Not give a scent of losing with only PG13 and Ball and Ingram on the roster. It may give PG13 a sour taste. That's even if he joins up. Heck he may like winning with Westbrook on the Thunder. Then your last hope would be LeBron joins up and he lures in what's left of the old man's banana boat like Wade and Melo and LeBron on the Lakers with Ball and Ingram which wont get passed Warriors.

I guess you could do it all last minute during the draft in 2018 as well like ya mentioned. But then ya still have to count on the guys wanting to join after this season. Haven't heard a peep from PG13 since the trade. Not sure if he's still on board with Lakers in 2018 no matter what or winning cures all and stays with Thunder.

Scoots
08-02-2017, 01:09 PM
All members of the Banana Boat are unrestricted next year right? The Lakers can offer them 4 matching deals at whatever they can afford and just see what happens ... or add PG13 and Westbrook and divide it 6 ways. 6 2 year deals with a player option on the 2nd year dividing all they can clear out of their cap and just see where it takes them. I would LOVE it if they all agreed ... just to see the carnage.

CP3
Westbrook
Wade
Carmelo
PG13
LeBron

LOL

Vinylman
08-02-2017, 01:19 PM
All members of the Banana Boat are unrestricted next year right? The Lakers can offer them 4 matching deals at whatever they can afford and just see what happens ... or add PG13 and Westbrook and divide it 6 ways. 6 2 year deals with a player option on the 2nd year dividing all they can clear out of their cap and just see where it takes them. I would LOVE it if they all agreed ... just to see the carnage.

CP3
Westbrook
Wade
Carmelo
PG13
LeBron

LOL

I really think if GS runs over the league next year that something kinda like this will actually happen because I think the players actually hate what the Dubs have assembled more than the fans and want to beat it...

I really think their wouldn't be any conflict with that group other than maybe Westie who probably won't do it anyway after his comments on KD... but I could definitely see the others doing it...

Gibby23
08-02-2017, 02:06 PM
Dumping Deng is going to take something big.

Like, Ingram or Zubak/Nance will have to be added to that in order to get Deng off the books. Or multiple future firsts.

Don't need to dump Deng if they can't. They can stretch him and afford 2 max players at 30 and 35 million.

warfelg
08-03-2017, 07:44 AM
Don't need to dump Deng if they can't. They can stretch him and afford 2 max players at 30 and 35 million.

Stretching Deng would mean paying him $10.8 mil for the next 5 seasons if done now. $7.362 over 5 if done next offseason.

The problem isn't year 1. It's year 3-4-5 when you've got that amount still on the books, are in the tax, and trying to find a way to save.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 08:50 AM
Stretching Deng would mean paying him $10.8 mil for the next 5 seasons if done now. $7.362 over 5 if done next offseason.

The problem isn't year 1. It's year 3-4-5 when you've got that amount still on the books, are in the tax, and trying to find a way to save.

no one is talking about stretching deng now... and I highly doubt he will ever be stretched...

the only reason to stretch him is IF you know the elite players want to come here... if not .. you don't

Lets say PG13 tells okc after the year that he is leaving no matter what... do you think if the lakers offered deng/ a first / a second / Nance / a rotation player that OKC turns that down?

No chance...

Scoots
08-03-2017, 09:21 AM
no one is talking about stretching deng now... and I highly doubt he will ever be stretched...

the only reason to stretch him is IF you know the elite players want to come here... if not .. you don't

Lets say PG13 tells okc after the year that he is leaving no matter what... do you think if the lakers offered deng/ a first / a second / Nance / a rotation player that OKC turns that down?

No chance...

Seems that would mean OKC would get more for PG13 than Indy got. That that trade is being proposed does clearly demonstrate how horrible that Deng contract is.

warfelg
08-03-2017, 09:26 AM
Seems that would mean OKC would get more for PG13 than Indy got. That that trade is being proposed does clearly demonstrate how horrible that Deng contract is.

Agreed on both points.

Personally I think OKC just lets him walk, and Westbrook if it comes to that. I would bet they trade off Adams and Kanter for other just parts.

I said this when they did the trade: It's lowkey brilliant. If both walk, they can clear some cap and just restart. If it goes well and both buy in they are set for a while. It's a total win win situation for OKC.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 10:19 AM
Seems that would mean OKC would get more for PG13 than Indy got. That that trade is being proposed does clearly demonstrate how horrible that Deng contract is.

what? ... deng is garbage... the first would be mid 20's if the lakers are loading up, a second in the 50's, Nance who is irrelevant if PG comes, and a rotation player like the 10th guy?

That is better than oladipo and sabonis? are you crazy?

That package is comparable to what it cost to unload D Carroll to the Nets... except the Lakers get a top 15 player in he league out of it and the Raptors got nothing

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 10:41 AM
Agreed on both points.

Personally I think OKC just lets him walk, and Westbrook if it comes to that. I would bet they trade off Adams and Kanter for other just parts.

I said this when they did the trade: It's lowkey brilliant. If both walk, they can clear some cap and just restart. If it goes well and both buy in they are set for a while. It's a total win win situation for OKC.

small market teams aren't gonna let their players walk if they can salvage something out of it... I do agree that the original deal was great but you still don't want to let him go for nothing

On a side note... the reason that proposal I put up their with Deng in it is probably a little more than they would normally do because there are significant cap considerations (ie PG13 could opt in for $20 million).

If the Lakers could somehow pull off the trade above they could dump Clarkson and then have around $50 million to spend on two other top tier guys

Gibby23
08-03-2017, 11:46 AM
small market teams aren't gonna let their players walk if they can salvage something out of it... I do agree that the original deal was great but you still don't want to let him go for nothing

On a side note... the reason that proposal I put up their with Deng in it is probably a little more than they would normally do because there are significant cap considerations (ie PG13 could opt in for $20 million).

If the Lakers could somehow pull off the trade above they could dump Clarkson and then have around $50 million to spend on two other top tier guys

it is going to be hard for OKC to justify trading PG or Russ midseason if they are a 3 or 4 seed. I can see after the season, but I don't know if PG is willing to leave 10 million on the table. As a FA he is going to sign a 3 or 4 year deal with an opt out after year 2 when he completes 10 years in the NBA and is able to really cash in.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-03-2017, 12:00 PM
Doubt teams will bend over a barrel to help Lakers with a new super team. Any first round Picks Lakers part with will be in the 20's. That's not to enticing at all. Not much else. I think teams will want more then first round picks to eat Deng. I think some teams will ask for Ingram then once its a quick no then talks are off. Heck Clarkson is consider a negative at this point.

Also Randle near end of his rookie contract and be ready for a big payday as well. So he's kind of a wasted asset now. This is all speculation at this point of the dull offseason. Heck PG13 may stay with Thunder. Then its LeBron or bust for Lakers then. Cavs should take Ingram, Randle, Clarkson and Deng for LeBron if he waived his no trade clause. But LeBron wont. He probably just wants to leave the Cavs high and dry. While not gutting his new team out.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 12:31 PM
it is going to be hard for OKC to justify trading PG or Russ midseason if they are a 3 or 4 seed. I can see after the season, but I don't know if PG is willing to leave 10 million on the table. As a FA he is going to sign a 3 or 4 year deal with an opt out after year 2 when he completes 10 years in the NBA and is able to really cash in.

yep... no chance OKC trades him during the season if everyone is healthy...

I only see a trade to the Lakers happening in the offseason...

However, we all know these guys talk and if they all agree to take less then I am sure he will be willing to suck up the difference... god know CP3 gave up more this year than PG13 will have to next year...

Can't he just sign an extension next year anyway even if he opts in?

j-bay
08-03-2017, 12:35 PM
What to expect in 2018? Everybody moves West, Demarcus Cousins moves to DC and the two big teams in the East are the Wizards and Celtics.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 12:37 PM
Doubt teams will bend over a barrel to help Lakers with a new super team. Any first round Picks Lakers part with will be in the 20's. That's not to enticing at all. Not much else. I think teams will want more then first round picks to eat Deng. I think some teams will ask for Ingram then once its a quick no then talks are off. Heck Clarkson is consider a negative at this point.

Also Randle near end of his rookie contract and be ready for a big payday as well. So he's kind of a wasted asset now. This is all speculation at this point of the dull offseason. Heck PG13 may stay with Thunder. Then its LeBron or bust for Lakers then. Cavs should take Ingram, Randle, Clarkson and Deng for LeBron if he waived his no trade clause. But LeBron wont. He probably just wants to leave the Cavs high and dry. While not gutting his new team out.


who knows ... but lets not be na´ve... the clippers just helped Houston... both Toronto and Cleveland helped the heat the last time

teams will do anything for the right price

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 12:41 PM
What to expect in 2018? Everybody moves West, Demarcus Cousins moves to DC and the two big teams in the East are the Wizards and Celtics.

good luck getting him in DC with their cap situation lol

warfelg
08-03-2017, 12:43 PM
That package isn't the right price though.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 12:50 PM
That package isn't the right price though.

how so?

Here is the clipps/paul deal

The Rockets will send Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams, DeAndre Liggins, Darrun Hilliard, Montrezl Harrell, Kyle Wiltjer, a top-three-protected 2018 first-round pick and $661,000 to the Clippers in exchange for Paul

How is that a lot better than the Lakers deal?

Again... if OKC knows he is leaving and the only team you can get something from is the Lakers eating deng is NOTHING... you can argue over who the role players are but a pick is a pick... Ingram and Ball aren't going in a deal unless Westie is included

j-bay
08-03-2017, 01:10 PM
good luck getting him in DC with their cap situation lol

Im sure they have a plan. Gortat will be traded and maybe Porter or Oubre. Wall wanted to here the teams future. Before he signed. I'm sure they will make it work. Oh and if your talking about Wall's new deal effecting the cap, Wall's deal doesn't set in until 2019

warfelg
08-03-2017, 01:39 PM
how so?

Here is the clipps/paul deal

The Rockets will send Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams, DeAndre Liggins, Darrun Hilliard, Montrezl Harrell, Kyle Wiltjer, a top-three-protected 2018 first-round pick and $661,000 to the Clippers in exchange for Paul

How is that a lot better than the Lakers deal?

Again... if OKC knows he is leaving and the only team you can get something from is the Lakers eating deng is NOTHING... you can argue over who the role players are but a pick is a pick... Ingram and Ball aren't going in a deal unless Westie is included

Because not a single one of those deals is as bad as Dengs contract.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 01:47 PM
Im sure they have a plan. Gortat will be traded and maybe Porter or Oubre. Wall wanted to here the teams future. Before he signed. I'm sure they will make it work. Oh and if your talking about Wall's new deal effecting the cap, Wall's deal doesn't set in until 2019

yeah.. I know walls deal has no bearing... I was more talking about the **** deals like mahimi and the sheer volume of deals

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-03-2017, 01:52 PM
Deng will be tough to move. Also with teams spending like crazy. Not even sure how many teams left have cap to even eat Deng with assets attached. This year or next. Most teams are strapped. Foolish spending sprees.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 02:14 PM
Because not a single one of those deals is as bad as Dengs contract.

SIGH

you really don't understand why Houston had to give them that much back do you? THEY HAD TO MATCH SALARIES... that is the only way they could get CP3... they were OVER THE ******* CAP.... The Lakers can just out and out sign him because they will have cap space

Not trying to be a dick but it is a totally different situation which should be self evident.

warfelg
08-03-2017, 02:24 PM
SIGH

you really don't understand why Houston had to give them that much back do you? THEY HAD TO MATCH SALARIES... that is the only way they could get CP3... they were OVER THE ******* CAP.... The Lakers can just out and out sign him because they will have cap space

Not trying to be a dick but it is a totally different situation which should be self evident.

Well in the Rox-Clips case a bunch of those contracts were non-guaranteed, which the clips want. And Bev/Dekker/Williams/1st is actually a really good package.

What you offered was:
Deng - dead contract
Nance - nice but he ain't worth anything the clips got
Rotation player - ok depending on who you might have something
1st
2nd

That's still two quality players off from what the clips got.

Gibby23
08-03-2017, 02:25 PM
Stretching Deng would mean paying him $10.8 mil for the next 5 seasons if done now. $7.362 over 5 if done next offseason.

The problem isn't year 1. It's year 3-4-5 when you've got that amount still on the books, are in the tax, and trying to find a way to save.

If it means gett 2 stars, the Lakers don't and never had a problem paying Tax. Also they won't be over the $119 or so million until the 3rd year of Dengs stretched contract and will Likely only pay the Tax for 1 or 2 years until they fall under again. A lot of stuff can happen with players, but at the earliest is year 3 they will be over the tax line.

Vinylman
08-03-2017, 02:34 PM
Well in the Rox-Clips case a bunch of those contracts were non-guaranteed, which the clips want. And Bev/Dekker/Williams/1st is actually a really good package.

What you offered was:
Deng - dead contract
Nance - nice but he ain't worth anything the clips got
Rotation player - ok depending on who you might have something
1st
2nd

That's still two quality players off from what the clips got.

You really aren't understanding... no one ever said that the Clipps didn't like their package... the reason they got the deal they did was because HOUSTON was over the CAP!!!!!!!!!!! Houston couldn't go into the FA market like the Lakers can

Scoots
08-03-2017, 05:58 PM
Deng will be tough to move. Also with teams spending like crazy. Not even sure how many teams left have cap to even eat Deng with assets attached. This year or next. Most teams are strapped. Foolish spending sprees.

There is a reasonable chance half of the NBA will be over the tax and 2/3 over the cap next off-season. The 1/3 under the cap are going to be offering HUGE money.

jphysics
08-03-2017, 07:22 PM
NBA should take notes from the NFL. Unguaranteed contracts but have signing bonuses. Also have free agency before the draft.

They would have to increase the cap massively for the players to give up that much ground.

I am overall for increasing the cap space. These players are filthy rich, but the owners are even filthier. Give more to the players.

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 06:32 AM
Heat, Bulls, Lakers ... which team is next eDu ... erm ... Wade?

The Lakers "can" have $60M but they have to make some moves to get there.

Sorry but you are incorrect ...the lakers can get to over 70mil...we could trade Clarkson, dump deng"s contract, trade Randle, and renounce lopez...yes it would be a little bit of cap gymnastics, but point is we could get to over 70mil in spending power!

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 07:18 AM
Hmm, I think the bulls would love a package of say Deng, Randle and a future first at the deadline for maybe wade lol

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 07:20 AM
Dumping Deng is going to take something big.

Like, Ingram or Zubak/Nance will have to be added to that in order to get Deng off the books. Or multiple future firsts.

Deng, Randle and a futute first should get it done for Wade!

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 07:34 AM
it won't be easy but the value has been established...

It is basically a D Carroll deal which wasn't to bad...

I think the thing people are sleeping on is that if PG13 tells OKC he is leaving no matter what then he can be traded before FA like CP3 was this year.... Assuming the Lakers are tampering and know that LBJ is coming they will not really care if the deal looks like

Deng/2 future firsts/ and one or two of the young guys not named Ball or Ingram

If they can do a trade and get PG13 to opt in it is huge for their pursuit of 2 other stars...

at that point I think anybody not named Ball would be available via trade...

Does anyone really think the Lakers or OKC turns down the following in a trade before FA begins if both guys tell OKC they are leaving:

Westie/PG13 for Deng / Clarkson / Ingram / Ball / a future first ?

I know I don't think that will be rejected.

They could still add LBJ after a deal like that

No way the Lakers do that deal...if both tell OKC they are leaving, we know where they are coming anyway!

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 07:47 AM
no one is talking about stretching deng now... and I highly doubt he will ever be stretched...

the only reason to stretch him is IF you know the elite players want to come here... if not .. you don't

Lets say PG13 tells okc after the year that he is leaving no matter what... do you think if the lakers offered deng/ a first / a second / Nance / a rotation player that OKC turns that down?

No chance...

Something like this could go down as well...point is if we know PG and LBJ is coming for sure, we have a few ways to make it happen!

Scoots
08-04-2017, 09:01 AM
Pelinka's stroking of Rich Paul is pretty blatant. The LA Clutchers.

lakers squad
08-04-2017, 10:10 AM
Pelinka's stroking of Rich Paul is pretty blatant. The LA Clutchers.

Hey what ever gets it done...I say stroke away!

eDush
08-04-2017, 10:44 AM
no one is talking about stretching deng now... and I highly doubt he will ever be stretched...

the only reason to stretch him is IF you know the elite players want to come here... if not .. you don't

Lets say PG13 tells okc after the year that he is leaving no matter what... do you think if the lakers offered deng/ a first / a second / Nance / a rotation player that OKC turns that down?

No chance...

Something like this could go down as well...point is if we know PG and LBJ is coming for sure, we have a few ways to make it happen!Doesn't matter whether they know or not lol. Chances of Magic creating that banana boat on his team are remote. That historic franchise has generated many championships and are NOT desperate nor interested in Lebron and his friends unlike their shared Staples rivals owned by a passionate owner who does the wave with the fans at home games. He would tear his team down and even fire Doc to create that banana boat or whatever for Lebron and allow him to bring in his own coach but they already traded CP3, a banana boat member, when they could have traded those other 2 guys to make the banana boat a reality. Their short sightedness might've ended it :pity:

If you're a real Lakers fan, you already know the banana boat won't be landing on their doorstep.
:no::no::no:
:superman:

WaDe03
08-04-2017, 11:05 AM
Doesn't matter whether they know or not lol. Chances of Magic creating that banana boat on his team are remote. That historic franchise has generated many championships and are NOT desperate nor interested in Lebron and his friends unlike their shared Staples rivals owned by a passionate owner who does the wave with the fans at home games. He would tear his team down and even fire Doc to create that banana boat or whatever for Lebron and allow him to bring in his own coach but they already traded CP3, a banana boat member, when they could have traded those other 2 guys to make the banana boat a reality. Their short sightedness might've ended it :pity:

If you're a real Lakers fan, you already know the banana boat won't be landing on their doorstep.
:no::no::no:
:superman:

You don't know that for sure, trust me on this one. :nod: :ohno: :no:

:superman:

eDush
08-04-2017, 11:08 AM
Doesn't matter whether they know or not lol. Chances of Magic creating that banana boat on his team are remote. That historic franchise has generated many championships and are NOT desperate nor interested in Lebron and his friends unlike their shared Staples rivals owned by a passionate owner who does the wave with the fans at home games. He would tear his team down and even fire Doc to create that banana boat or whatever for Lebron and allow him to bring in his own coach but they already traded CP3, a banana boat member, when they could have traded those other 2 guys to make the banana boat a reality. Their short sightedness might've ended it :pity:

If you're a real Lakers fan, you already know the banana boat won't be landing on their doorstep.
:no::no::no:
:superman:

You don't know that for sure, trust me on this one. :nod: :ohno: :no:

:superman:If Lebron joins the Lakers, I won't post on here ever again otherwise you don't post for a day which you can't handle :laugh: :nod:

WaDe03
08-04-2017, 11:37 AM
If Lebron joins the Lakers, I won't post on here ever again otherwise you don't post for a day which you can't handle :laugh: :nod:

I go multiple days at a time not posting on here lol. They're already clearing cap for 2 max players this summer, could clear for even more, especially if guys want to play at a discount to build a super team. Trust me :nod:

WaDe03
08-04-2017, 11:42 AM
Our agreement has been noted in my sig, eDush :nod:

Do I think LeBron goes to the Lakers? It's unlikely but, you never know. He could build a superteam there and have a crack at the Warriors earlier than usual with fresher legs.

eDush
08-04-2017, 12:02 PM
Our agreement has been noted in my sig, eDush :nod:

Do I think LeBron goes to the Lakers? It's unlikely but, you never know. He could build a superteam there and have a crack at the Warriors earlier than usual with fresher legs.Im not worried at all :)

Lebron will not leave the Cavs so I don't even get all these smoke screen the media is having fun with tbh
:shrug:

WaDe03
08-04-2017, 12:10 PM
Im not worried at all :)

Lebron will not leave the Cavs so I don't even get all these smoke screen the media is having fun with.
:shrug:

Never know, he's very unhappy with them right now according to my sources. Trust me and my sources on this. :superman:

Vinylman
08-04-2017, 12:18 PM
If Lebron joins the Lakers, I won't post on here ever again otherwise you don't post for a day which you can't handle :laugh: :nod:

ATTENTION MODS >>> We will burn down the site if this is not enforced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-04-2017, 01:19 PM
Deng, Randle and a futute first should get it done for Wade!

Curious if any teams would want Randle since he's RFA 2018. So this year and bam a new big contract besides bad contract of Deng and a future first which could be late if Lakers actually land some stars. That offer there doesn't sound to appealing. Lakers should of just traded for PG13 right away this summer. Cough up Ingram Randle Clarkson and Deng. Bam you got your cap ready next summer.

Now Lakers don't even have PG13 in the bag yet for next year 2018 season yet. PG13 could be convinced to stay with Thunder. Hard to say. Lakers may have to make some tough choices like part with Ingram for stars. Either go full rebuild with no stars or go for it. But it wont come easy to dump Deng.

No more Nets in the league. They already fully capped with Russel, Mozgov, Carroll, Crabbe. Not sure what other mismanaged teams are left to eat a Deng. You may have to cough up Ingram with Deng for a Wade. That's one piece of the banana boat. Then maybe LeBron next summer with expiring Lopez and Wade off the books after this season.

Vinylman
08-04-2017, 02:13 PM
Curious if any teams would want Randle since he's RFA 2018. So this year and bam a new big contract besides bad contract of Deng and a future first which could be late if Lakers actually land some stars. That offer there doesn't sound to appealing. Lakers should of just traded for PG13 right away this summer. Cough up Ingram Randle Clarkson and Deng. Bam you got your cap ready next summer.

Now Lakers don't even have PG13 in the bag yet for next year 2018 season yet. PG13 could be convinced to stay with Thunder. Hard to say. Lakers may have to make some tough choices like part with Ingram for stars. Either go full rebuild with no stars or go for it. But it wont come easy to dump Deng.

No more Nets in the league. They already fully capped with Russel, Mozgov, Carroll, Crabbe. Not sure what other mismanaged teams are left to eat a Deng. You may have to cough up Ingram with Deng for a Wade. That's one piece of the banana boat. Then maybe LeBron next summer with expiring Lopez and Wade off the books after this season.


45 days ago I would have agreed with you on Randle with the potential for an impending big payday...

EXCEPT... as we have now seen with Noel and KCP and others... the money isn't there... and if you want a lot you basically have to get someone else to offer it which the incumbent team can then match...

What really is the market for a guy like Randle next offseason when teams know the incumbent can tie up their cap for a few days and then just out and out match their offer...

of course this assumes he doesn't show continued progression wherein the incumbent would just match a max...

the cap grew a lot this past year with the forecast for next year showing very little growth... teams will only become more cautious...

As for that last part of your post... ZERO and I mean ZERO chance that Ingram is included to get someone like Wade in a Deng dump... he could be included in a big deal but not for a declining Wade

warfelg
08-04-2017, 02:18 PM
As for that last part of your post... ZERO and I mean ZERO chance that Ingram is included to get someone like Wade in a Deng dump... he could be included in a big deal but not for a declining Wade

Yes and no.

Yea Ingram in that deal is an overpay. But in what way does Chicago have the incentive to do the deal without getting something useful? Giving up an expiring for a longer term deal should only come with someone you want. See: Nets deal.

eDush
08-04-2017, 08:16 PM
If Lebron joins the Lakers, I won't post on here ever again otherwise you don't post for a day which you can't handle :laugh: :nod:

ATTENTION MODS >>> We will burn down the site if this is not enforced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That's not the mods job to enforced side bets among posters nor should it be silly :laugh:

The bigger question is whether it would be honored or not which you seem to doubt by even bringing this up.

Not honoring friendly sports bets is much worst then being a fair weather, bandwagon or whatever type of fan one may be. Fans who don't honor bets are not fans at all but scums :pity:

eDush
08-04-2017, 08:21 PM
As for that last part of your post... ZERO and I mean ZERO chance that Ingram is included to get someone like Wade in a Deng dump... he could be included in a big deal but not for a declining Wade

Yes and no.

Yea Ingram in that deal is an overpay. But in what way does Chicago have the incentive to do the deal without getting something useful? Giving up an expiring for a longer term deal should only come with someone you want. See: Nets deal.Ingram >>>>>> Dlo. It will never happen just to dump a player to pick up Wade :facepalm:

Scoots
08-04-2017, 11:31 PM
being a fair weather, bandwagon fan ... are not fans at all but scums :pity:

:nod:

eDush
08-04-2017, 11:46 PM
being a fair weather, bandwagon fan ... are not fans at all but scums :pity:

:nod:Now we know what it means to change the context of what someone was saying or their post in this case but i'm sure you always honor your bets. One without honor is a disgrace to him and his house ~ Worf

:superman:

lakers squad
08-05-2017, 12:21 AM
Yes and no.

Yea Ingram in that deal is an overpay. But in what way does Chicago have the incentive to do the deal without getting something useful? Giving up an expiring for a longer term deal should only come with someone you want. See: Nets deal.

BI is not going any where...no way we include him to dump deng, we would stretch his contract before we even thought of that...some combination of Clarkson or Randle and picks will be the way we trade deng's contract if we need to get out from under it!

FlashBolt
08-05-2017, 12:48 AM
I think Lakers will try to get Clarkson to inflate his numbers and then try to trade Clarkson as a way for a team to take on Deng's contract. That would be insane if they could do that. To be honest, if I'm the Lakers, I would make sure Clarkson stat-stuffs the hell outta the season and hit averages of 20/5/5 and then hope some team takes him on.

WaDe03
08-05-2017, 01:13 AM
I think Lakers will try to get Clarkson to inflate his numbers and then try to trade Clarkson as a way for a team to take on Deng's contract. That would be insane if they could do that. To be honest, if I'm the Lakers, I would make sure Clarkson stat-stuffs the hell outta the season and hit averages of 20/5/5 and then hope some team takes him on.

They should do the same for Randle too.

FlashBolt
08-05-2017, 01:22 AM
They should do the same for Randle too.

Why would they do that? Randle's still on his rookie contract and has a QO next season. The only salary cap that truly puts a dent on their plans is Deng's contract and I'd assume the only way you can get rid of him is by boosting up Clarkson (or a young promising player's) stats. No team will take Randle into consideration since he's not really a long-term deal. I truly think Lakers will get LeBron, Melo, CP3, Wade, and Bosh.. don't be surprised if it happens. If they planned 2010 back in 2006 or whatever and they said they want to play with one another, it's not out of possibility. Wade is entering age 36 by then so this is probably the last chance they have. San Antonio might be the 2nd team LeBron takes into consideration. Imagine if they could get CP3/LeBron on that team surrounded by shooters? Oh boy, that would be unfair..

WaDe03
08-05-2017, 01:41 AM
Why would they do that? Randle's still on his rookie contract and has a QO next season. The only salary cap that truly puts a dent on their plans is Deng's contract and I'd assume the only way you can get rid of him is by boosting up Clarkson (or a young promising player's) stats. No team will take Randle into consideration since he's not really a long-term deal. I truly think Lakers will get LeBron, Melo, CP3, Wade, and Bosh.. don't be surprised if it happens. If they planned 2010 back in 2006 or whatever and they said they want to play with one another, it's not out of possibility. Wade is entering age 36 by then so this is probably the last chance they have. San Antonio might be the 2nd team LeBron takes into consideration. Imagine if they could get CP3/LeBron on that team surrounded by shooters? Oh boy, that would be unfair..

I figure if Randle is balling teams would rather take him in a deal with Deng attached and just match any offer in the future.

I agree, I think the banana boat team is coming. Perfect team for Bosh to slowly work his way back with too. If they want to stay out east, they could always go to the Bulls who have 50M+ in cap space next year and could easily free up the rest needed. Personally, I would like to see them stay/go East.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-05-2017, 10:51 AM
Randle is a RFA after this season and wont be a huge asset since he will no longer be on a rookie deal. At this point Clarkson isn't a positive asset either. Also future picks with a pending banana boat forming wont be lottery picks.

WaDe03
08-05-2017, 10:54 AM
Randle is a RFA after this season and wont be a huge asset since he will no longer be on a rookie deal. At this point Clarkson isn't a positive asset either. Also future picks with a pending banana boat forming wont be lottery picks.

The last part doesn't matter though because they're trading their picks with this current team as-is. Currently those picks are worth a lot.

GREATNESS ONE
08-05-2017, 11:07 AM
ATTENTION MODS >>> We will burn down the site if this is not enforced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2: seriously!!! That would be an incredible day!

Trust me. :nod:

Vinylman
08-05-2017, 11:48 AM
Yes and no.

Yea Ingram in that deal is an overpay. But in what way does Chicago have the incentive to do the deal without getting something useful? Giving up an expiring for a longer term deal should only come with someone you want. See: Nets deal.


dude... it doesn't matter what Chicago wants to do ... Magic and Pelinka won't do it...

you guys really don't understand what the Lakers FO is doing...

And if you are talking about the Russell Nets deal you have no understanding of what a cancer Russell is ... the Lakers HAD to clear him out so the team chemistry would improve and the other young guys would develop

Again... the only way Ingram gets moved is in a much much bigger deal with the lakers getting a key long term piece back...

eDush
08-05-2017, 11:54 AM
Yes and no.

Yea Ingram in that deal is an overpay. But in what way does Chicago have the incentive to do the deal without getting something useful? Giving up an expiring for a longer term deal should only come with someone you want. See: Nets deal.


dude... it doesn't matter what Chicago wants to do ... Magic and Pelinka won't do it...

you guys really don't understand what the Lakers FO is doing...

And if you are talking about the Russell Nets deal you have no understanding of what a cancer Russell is ... the Lakers HAD to clear him out so the team chemistry would improve and the other young guys would develop

Again... the only way Ingram gets moved is in a much much bigger deal with the lakers getting a key long term piece back...True words as I ever seen them my man. Glad those clowns don't run the Lakers FO otherwise they would destroy that roster. Ingram is so much better than Dlo and is the centerpiece for the Lakers with superstar potential waiting to explode. Lakers are for real and why I had them making the playoffs this season :clap:

Vinylman
08-05-2017, 12:21 PM
Randle is a RFA after this season and wont be a huge asset since he will no longer be on a rookie deal. At this point Clarkson isn't a positive asset either. Also future picks with a pending banana boat forming wont be lottery picks.

Not saying the Lakers should do it but...

Randle could be traded right now for a 1st round pick around 16...

You take that pick ... add a future 1st Laker pick and Deng and someone will take him on in the offseason...

The Lakers are hoping Randle will continue to improve so he can be an added option to either stay beyond this year or be used as an asset to enhance the roster in other ways.

warfelg
08-05-2017, 01:37 PM
dude... it doesn't matter what Chicago wants to do ... Magic and Pelinka won't do it...

you guys really don't understand what the Lakers FO is doing...

And if you are talking about the Russell Nets deal you have no understanding of what a cancer Russell is ... the Lakers HAD to clear him out so the team chemistry would improve and the other young guys would develop

Again... the only way Ingram gets moved is in a much much bigger deal with the lakers getting a key long term piece back...

It's like you didn't really read what I said.

I agreed that giving up Ingram was an oversell.

What I did say was getting Wade, so that they (the Lakers) could save cap, they are going to need to send something with Deng to entice to bulls to put off cap savings for 2 years. Maybe it's Nance and a 2nd. Or a future 1st.

FlashBolt
08-05-2017, 02:21 PM
I still don't understand why the Lakers thought it was a good idea giving Mosgov and Deng that type of money. Looking back, that might be the worst signing the past two years. What the hell were they thinking?

Vinylman
08-05-2017, 02:34 PM
It's like you didn't really read what I said.

I agreed that giving up Ingram was an oversell.

What I did say was getting Wade, so that they (the Lakers) could save cap, they are going to need to send something with Deng to entice to bulls to put off cap savings for 2 years. Maybe it's Nance and a 2nd. Or a future 1st.

I did read it... I was responding to miller and saying there is no ******* way the lakers would include Ingram to just dump Deng to Chicago for someone like wade...

there is just ZERO chance of a deal Deng/Ingram for Wade... ABSOLUTELY ZERO

will the Lakers have to give something up to dump deng... of course ... but that isn't the scenario I was talking about when responding to miller

Vinylman
08-05-2017, 02:35 PM
I still don't understand why the Lakers thought it was a good idea giving Mosgov and Deng that type of money. Looking back, that might be the worst signing the past two years. What the hell were they thinking?

what were they thinking? the two incompetent idiots in the FO were trying to KEEP THERE JOBS by selling Jeannie Buss that a Moz/deng addition could get them in the playoffs last year.... it was a complete and utter joke

GREATNESS ONE
08-05-2017, 02:45 PM
I still don't understand why the Lakers thought it was a good idea giving Mosgov and Deng that type of money. Looking back, that might be the worst signing the past two years. What the hell were they thinking?

Trust me 90% of us know and feel the same way. It was absolutely atrocious. Glad we don't have Dumb & Dumber running the FO anymore.

warfelg
08-05-2017, 02:58 PM
I did read it... I was responding to miller and saying there is no ******* way the lakers would include Ingram to just dump Deng to Chicago for someone like wade...

there is just ZERO chance of a deal Deng/Ingram for Wade... ABSOLUTELY ZERO

will the Lakers have to give something up to dump deng... of course ... but that isn't the scenario I was talking about when responding to miller

I don't get why your quoting me twice ranting on about something I agree with you on?

WaDe03
08-05-2017, 03:09 PM
How did greatness one get banned lol?

eDush
08-05-2017, 04:42 PM
How did greatness one get banned lol?They thought it was you by mistake :nod:

WaDe03
08-06-2017, 01:13 AM
They thought it was you by mistake :nod:

That wasn't the case, trust me. :nod:

GREATNESS ONE
08-06-2017, 12:13 PM
Trust me. :nod:

j-bay
08-06-2017, 12:22 PM
My 2018 NBA FA Prediction
Lebron James(Lakers)-Lebron becomes public enemy #1 again, going to a Lakers team that should patient and still be rebuilding. Not going the old fashion route and trying taking a shortcut to another shortcut.
KD(GSW)-I don't have explain this one.
Russell Westbrook(OKC)-A lot of people are going to take a look at Russ. But I think he stays and gets his money.
Demarcus Cousins(Wizards)-We will get to what you guys are thinking about with this move in a second. If the Pelicans don't make any noise in the West, then Cousins is out of there. Wall and Cousins have made secret to wanting to play with each other. If Cousins gives them the green light, like many executives in the league believe he will do, the cap space becomes the only issue. And i'm sure Washington will make something work.
Paul George(OKC)-Lakers fans:What?! But it was rumored he really wanted to come here....Sorry Lakers fans, but George could change his mind after playing with Westbrook. I predict Paul will wait to see where Russ goes first, which in my prediction is OKC.
Chris Paul(Rockets)-He could join that other team in LA....Nah. I think he will love playing with Harden and the Rockets, and will stay in Houston.
Isaiah Thomas(Celtics)-A lot of questions on Boston radio on whether Thomas can become the Celtics franchise guy. He might be able to with this weak ECF. Either way the Celtics need Thomas and will resign him.
DeAndre Jordan(LAL)-He won't stay with the Clippers, so i'm guessing he is off to LA's other team.
Carmelo Anthony(Rockets)-You could make the case Melo is off to join his good friend LeBron in LA. But for some reason I see him signing with the Rockets. He said he wouldn't mind going there. And if Morey has shown us anything its he isn't afraid to open up his checkbook.
Joel Embiid(Sixers)-Nothing to say
Andrew Wiggins(Wolves)-Nothing to say

GREATNESS ONE
08-06-2017, 01:10 PM
If we get Lebron, no doubt in my mind PG13 will come too.

warfelg
08-06-2017, 01:58 PM
LeBron ain't going to the Lakers alone. Against his MO.

Mr.B
08-06-2017, 03:05 PM
So if the Lakers do make a run at Labron and Paul George what is their plan with Julius Randle?

GREATNESS ONE
08-06-2017, 03:39 PM
So if the Lakers do make a run at Labron and Paul George what is their plan with Julius Randle?

Wouldn't be able to re-sign him, I feel like he's gonna break out this year and could see a deal at the deadline. Randle + Deng

Mr.B
08-06-2017, 04:33 PM
Wouldn't be able to re-sign him, I feel like he's gonna break out this year and could see a deal at the deadline. Randle + Deng

He's a guy that is like to see the Mavs pursue. He plays a position of need for the Mavs and he's young and from Dallas. Not sure how his game would mesh with Noel though. Also how is his shooting?

GREATNESS ONE
08-06-2017, 05:17 PM
His shooting is one of his weaknesses, he is great in transition and finishing around the rim. It was hard to really judge any of our players since they didn't play with a legit PG.

He's been getting ripped in the off-season, looks in World class shape. His value should see a huge boost playing with Lonzo and getting easy buckets in transitions and leaks.

FlashBolt
08-06-2017, 06:04 PM
If he's doing his banana-boat thingy, Lakers is the perfect team considering they all like the attention the Lakers can get them, Lakers have the cap space (if they get rid of Deng/Clarkson), and in terms of legacy/history, there's no better team other than probably the Knicks. If he wants to be on the best team.. join the Spurs. Spurs have enough cap for potentially two near-max players. I think Danny/Rudy/LA are all opting out anyways. Spurs can then fill the roster with shooters and 3/D defenders. Spurs can find those players in the draft or develop a few guys from their D-League.

If they can get LeBron+Kawhi+PG, it's pretty much over for the league... Stick Kawhi on KD, PG on Klay, LeBron at PF, Pau at C, Patty at PG. Maybe Danny opts out for less to make salary work.. Damn, that would be insane.

j-bay
08-06-2017, 06:10 PM
If we get Lebron, no doubt in my mind PG13 will come too.

Like i said it depends on how he Westbrook work. If he likes playing with Westbrook then i can see them playing together longer.

WaDe03
08-06-2017, 06:13 PM
If he's doing his banana-boat thingy, Lakers is the perfect team considering they all like the attention the Lakers can get them, Lakers have the cap space (if they get rid of Deng/Clarkson), and in terms of legacy/history, there's no better team other than probably the Knicks. If he wants to be on the best team.. join the Spurs. Spurs have enough cap for potentially two near-max players. I think Danny/Rudy/LA are all opting out anyways. Spurs can then fill the roster with shooters and 3/D defenders. Spurs can find those players in the draft or develop a few guys from their D-League.

If they can get LeBron+Kawhi+PG, it's pretty much over for the league... Stick Kawhi on KD, PG on Klay, LeBron at PF, Pau at C, Patty at PG. Maybe Danny opts out for less to make salary work.. Damn, that would be insane.

Then the GOAT comes for the MLE in the Ginobli role and it's over.

FlashBolt
08-06-2017, 06:21 PM
Then the GOAT comes for the MLE in the Ginobli role and it's over.

Yeah, I was thinking that too but I would believe Wade+Melo+CP3 go to Lakers if LeBron doesn't commit to the banana-boat thingy. That'll be a 37 year old Wade but still good enough to get you 14/5/5 every night.. I'd like to think Manu/Parker come back for like two more years and get those two rings :D

Scoots
08-06-2017, 06:54 PM
Wouldn't be able to re-sign him

Why not? Bird rights says they can.

Mr.B
08-06-2017, 07:01 PM
Why not? Bird rights says they can.

Wouldn't they have to renounce his rights in order to release the cap hold? They would need that money to make a legit offer to Labron and Paul George.

Scoots
08-06-2017, 07:09 PM
Wouldn't they have to renounce his rights in order to release the cap hold? They would need that money to make a legit offer to Labron and Paul George.

His cap hold wouldn't be outrageous, but yeah, if they renounce him then he's gone.

WaDe03
08-07-2017, 10:44 AM
Yeah, I was thinking that too but I would believe Wade+Melo+CP3 go to Lakers if LeBron doesn't commit to the banana-boat thingy. That'll be a 37 year old Wade but still good enough to get you 14/5/5 every night.. I'd like to think Manu/Parker come back for like two more years and get those two rings :D

Yea they may return lol. I feel Manu is leaving after this year but I've been saying that for 3 years now. Does 14-5-5 off the bench for the best team in the league win 6MOY?

eDush
08-07-2017, 11:31 AM
Why not? Bird rights says they can.

Wouldn't they have to renounce his rights in order to release the cap hold? They would need that money to make a legit offer to Labron and Paul George.They won't renounce his rights and it's not Labron :facepalm:

FlashBolt
08-07-2017, 04:11 PM
Yea they may return lol. I feel Manu is leaving after this year but I've been saying that for 3 years now. Does 14-5-5 off the bench for the best team in the league win 6MOY?

It should.. Most off the bench player's who won sixth man are just scorers. It's been awhile since we had a sixth man who could score, rebound, and create plays... Harden was the last one I can recall. Odom before that was also really good. I think iggy is such an underrated player off the bench. He could be sixth man every year IMO.

Scoots
08-07-2017, 07:44 PM
It should.. Most off the bench player's who won sixth man are just scorers. It's been awhile since we had a sixth man who could score, rebound, and create plays... Harden was the last one I can recall. Odom before that was also really good. I think iggy is such an underrated player off the bench. He could be sixth man every year IMO.

Or an elite defender winning 6MOY. Most of the time people just dismiss them early and quick.

FlashBolt
08-07-2017, 10:18 PM
Or an elite defender winning 6MOY. Most of the time people just dismiss them early and quick.

If you can't 3 and D, you have zero chance of being a sixth man of the year, tbh. If you just defend, your offensive deficiencies are going to limit your playing time.

Bostonjorge
08-08-2017, 01:26 AM
Iggy is the playoffs and Finals 6th man of the year

abdulie13
08-08-2017, 02:46 AM
Kd signing is all cause of lebron. If he never did it in Miami and won a ring than kd would have never signed

abdulie13
08-08-2017, 03:03 AM
Lebron will leave Cleveland lol

abdulie13
08-08-2017, 03:03 AM
He needs help lol

lakers squad
08-08-2017, 09:05 AM
I'm a little curious, if LBJ and PG13 both want to come to the lakers, but let's say for argument's sake that westbook and P13 both do as well...which two players would be best for the Lakers to sign, LBJ is getting up in age a little...opinion's plzz!

PayDaPiper
08-08-2017, 11:33 AM
I'm a little curious, if LBJ and PG13 both want to come to the lakers, but let's say for argument's sake that westbook and P13 both do as well...which two players would be best for the Lakers to sign, LBJ is getting up in age a little...opinion's plzz!

Lebron is playing the best all around ball of his life right now and he isn't slowing down anytime soon. Any team would be foolish not to give him the max next year if he wanted to play there

WaDe03
08-08-2017, 11:52 AM
Lebron is playing the best all around ball of his life right now and he isn't slowing down anytime soon. Any team would be foolish not to give him the max next year if he wanted to play there

He's not as good as Miami LeBron but I agree, you definitely take him over anyone else if you can get him.

Hawkeye15
08-08-2017, 12:20 PM
Kd signing is all cause of lebron. If he never did it in Miami and won a ring than kd would have never signed

you can't believe that.

Scoots
08-08-2017, 12:44 PM
Lebron is playing the best all around ball of his life right now and he isn't slowing down anytime soon. Any team would be foolish not to give him the max next year if he wanted to play there

I actually wonder what the Warriors would do if they got that call? Move Draymond to starting at C, KD at PF, and LeBron at SF? The biggest issue would be would LeBron play within their system or would he want to be the system.

Bostonjorge
08-08-2017, 01:33 PM
I'm a little curious, if LBJ and PG13 both want to come to the lakers, but let's say for argument's sake that westbook and P13 both do as well...which two players would be best for the Lakers to sign, LBJ is getting up in age a little...opinion's plzz!

Westbrook is KD's worst nightmare

Scoots
08-08-2017, 04:21 PM
Westbrook is KD's worst nightmare

As a teammate.

lakers squad
08-09-2017, 12:23 AM
He's not as good as Miami LeBron but I agree, you definitely take him over anyone else if you can get him.

That's what im thinking as welll, even though LBJ is getting up in age a little, he show's no signs of slowing down at all, also the lakers would be deep enough to cut his minutes down some from were they are at with the cavs! Just wanted to see if anyone would go with westbrook, pg13, but imo I think you go Lbj, pg13 all day long if all 3 wanted to come and you could only take two, but for what it's worth if all 3 wanted to come, I think the lakers would figure out a way to get all 3 in!

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-09-2017, 02:20 AM
Why are people making predictions (as to where players will go) a year in advance? Didn't the KD situation say we should stop doing this lol?

Scoots
08-09-2017, 09:10 AM
Why are people making predictions (as to where players will go) a year in advance? Didn't the KD situation say we should stop doing this lol?

Don't let reality get in the way of your online discussions!

Mr.B
08-09-2017, 09:43 AM
They won't renounce his rights and it's not Labron :facepalm:

What makes you so sure they won't renounce his rights? If the Lakers are going to make a serious run at 2 max players they are going to need every bit of cap space. If Randle's cap hold is around $8-$9 mil they will have to renounce his rights. What happens if a team offers Randle a huge deal the second FA starts (like the Mavs did with Chandler Parsons) they will be forced to make a decision on Randle pretty quick. And if Lebron and George are taking their time to sign they won't have a choice but to renounce his rights.

Vinylman
08-09-2017, 10:58 AM
What makes you so sure they won't renounce his rights? If the Lakers are going to make a serious run at 2 max players they are going to need every bit of cap space. If Randle's cap hold is around $8-$9 mil they will have to renounce his rights. What happens if a team offers Randle a huge deal the second FA starts (like the Mavs did with Chandler Parsons) they will be forced to make a decision on Randle pretty quick. And if Lebron and George are taking their time to sign they won't have a choice but to renounce his rights.

all of that is true but the reality is pretty straightforward

1. If he continues to improve he will probably be packaged with Deng for cap relief at the deadline
2. If he breaks out this year showing significant improvement... they probably hold onto him and then face a major decision when he hits FA OR They use him and deng and make a trade with OKC for PG13 AFTER the season
3. If he doesn't show much improvement then they offer him the QO and see what happens... if someone else signs him he probably is gone depending on who they get in FA... However, the likelihood of him getting signed EARLY in FA under this scenario is pretty low (look what happened to guys that fit this category this past year).


Anyway... renouncing a guy like Randle if it means you can sign top end guys is pretty much a no brainer

lakers squad
08-09-2017, 12:58 PM
What makes you so sure they won't renounce his rights? If the Lakers are going to make a serious run at 2 max players they are going to need every bit of cap space. If Randle's cap hold is around $8-$9 mil they will have to renounce his rights. What happens if a team offers Randle a huge deal the second FA starts (like the Mavs did with Chandler Parsons) they will be forced to make a decision on Randle pretty quick. And if Lebron and George are taking their time to sign they won't have a choice but to renounce his rights.

I think his cap hold is more like 12 or 14 mil, but anyway if Randle gets his shooting stroke down good, and gets were he knocks down the three consistently. and can be a solid defender, he will be a all star in this league, but it just has that feel like it's his last year in l.a. and I hate that, because I think Randle will tighten his game up and become a all star in the next couple year's! But I think he is going to be the odd man out in that crowded front court when it comes down to it because of the contract situation...jmho

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 02:20 PM
If the Lakers are smart they'll do their best to package Deng Randle and a first for Wade and clear all that cap. Renounce Wade and make a run at 3 max level players and throw the MLE at Wade to recruit those guys (he's also close to PG). Renounce Lopez and ask him to come back for cheap or the minimum if he really wants to win.

Lakers should find a way to dump Clarkson as well for more space, probably attach a 1st

Westbrook (Ball)
PG/Wade (Ginobli role)
Ingram
LeBron
Lopez

Vets will flock to that team for the minimum to fill out the roster.

Dumping Deng Clarkson and Randle and renouncing rights will give the 90M give or take a few. LeBron PG and Westbrook sign 1 year deals and sign for 5 years the following offseason to their huge contracts.

Closing lineup:

Westbrook
Wade
PG
LeBron
Lopez

SfgiantsJD3
08-09-2017, 02:48 PM
Who will be the new coach?

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 06:40 PM
If the Lakers were smart they would hire me to ensure the above happens to their team.

lakers squad
08-09-2017, 06:59 PM
If the Lakers are smart they'll do their best to package Deng Randle and a first for Wade and clear all that cap. Renounce Wade and make a run at 3 max level players and throw the MLE at Wade to recruit those guys (he's also close to PG). Renounce Lopez and ask him to come back for cheap or the minimum if he really wants to win.

Lakers should find a way to dump Clarkson as well for more space, probably attach a 1st

Westbrook (Ball)
PG/Wade (Ginobli role)
Ingram
LeBron
Lopez

Vets will flock to that team for the minimum to fill out the roster.

Dumping Deng Clarkson and Randle and renouncing rights will give the 90M give or take a few. LeBron PG and Westbrook sign 1 year deals and sign for 5 years the following offseason to their huge contracts.

Closing lineup:

Westbrook
Wade
PG
LeBron
Lopez

I agree with everything you said, but I think the last time I checked if we did those move's my math had us at around 75-80 mil being the most cap space we could get too, the cap is protected to be about 105 mil give are take this coming year....also no way do we have to attach a pick to dump Clarkson, we would get at least a 2nd back, if he go"s on a little bit of a tear this season we might even get a first back at the deadline!

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 07:05 PM
I agree with everything you said, but I think the last time I checked if we did those move's my math had us at around 80 mil, the cap is protected to be about 105 mil give are take this coming year....also no way do we have to attach a pick to dump Clarkson, we would get at least a 2nd back, if he go"s on a little bit of a tear this season we might even get a first back at the deadline!

I believe you only have 42M tied up next summer leaving 63M. Now that number goes up about 5M if you decide to keep exercise Nance Zubac and I believe one others option. Trading Clarkson and Deng frees up 31M I believe so that should be anywhere from 85-93M I believe, I could be off a little. Split that money 3 ways for 1 year deals with Westbrook George and LeBron, maybe they even take a little less to give Wade and Lopez a little money (after all it's just 1 year and they'll be signing 5 year max deals the next summer).

You could be right on Clarkson BUT if the deciding factor is whether you trade a first round pick or not you have to take that gamble. The pick is going to be in the last 3 picks of the first round if this trade happens anyways. You more ham likely will have to attach another first to dump Deng but would be worth it and as I said vets will be flocking to that team for the minimum and be bench will fill out nicely and you have a nice mixture of younger guys and vet guys.

lakers squad
08-09-2017, 07:16 PM
Yes you are correct, I just checked....if the cap is set at 105 mil, we can get to 85-90 mil easily, and that 105 is a little bit of a conservative cap estimate!

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 07:37 PM
Yes you are correct, I just checked....if the cap is set at 105 mil, we can get to 85-90 mil easily, and that 105 is a little bit of a conservative cap estimate!

More than enough money for 3 guys then, they would jump at the opportunity to team up on a team as historic as the Lakers imo.

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 07:38 PM
Don't sleep on the dark horse bench player (to start the season at least)........Bosh if/when cleared.

Westbrook/Ball
PG/Wade
Ingram/PG
LeBron/Kuzma
Lopez/Bosh

Get these guys some veteran bench shooters on the wing!

lakers squad
08-09-2017, 07:43 PM
Lmao...it's starting to look like the thunder might have messed up and traded for PG13, trying to create a team to keep Westbrook around, but the opposite might just happen, were PG13 recruits Westbrook to team up with him and LBJ out in LA to create a true superteam that could really challenge the Warriors!

WaDe03
08-09-2017, 07:45 PM
Lmao...it's starting to look like the thunder might have messed up and traded for PG13, trying to create a team to keep Westbrook around, but the opposite might just happen, were PG13 recruits Westbrook to team up with him and LBJ out in LA to create a true superteam that could really challenge the Warriors!

I've been thinking this as well, just have to hope he doesn't sign that extension or this plan now pushes to CP3.

Mr.B
08-10-2017, 02:52 AM
all of that is true but the reality is pretty straightforward

1. If he continues to improve he will probably be packaged with Deng for cap relief at the deadline
2. If he breaks out this year showing significant improvement... they probably hold onto him and then face a major decision when he hits FA OR They use him and deng and make a trade with OKC for PG13 AFTER the season
3. If he doesn't show much improvement then they offer him the QO and see what happens... if someone else signs him he probably is gone depending on who they get in FA... However, the likelihood of him getting signed EARLY in FA under this scenario is pretty low (look what happened to guys that fit this category this past year).


Anyway... renouncing a guy like Randle if it means you can sign top end guys is pretty much a no brainer

Yea I could see him being traded at the deadline. Also I agree that it would be smart for the Lakers to do that to compete now. It absolutely is a no brainer if you choose to renounce Randle and end up signing Paul George and Lebron.

Randle is just the type of player that I believe the Mavs will go after next off season. They won't have a shot at Lebron or George but they could end up picking up a young improving PF in Randle. So I'm thinking of scenarios where the Mavs could end up with Randle.

Vinylman
08-10-2017, 08:08 AM
Yea I could see him being traded at the deadline. Also I agree that it would be smart for the Lakers to do that to compete now. It absolutely is a no brainer if you choose to renounce Randle and end up signing Paul George and Lebron.

Randle is just the type of player that I believe the Mavs will go after next off season. They won't have a shot at Lebron or George but they could end up picking up a young improving PF in Randle. So I'm thinking of scenarios where the Mavs could end up with Randle.


Randle can be a solid player in the league if he plays to his strengths and quits thinking he can be the next lamar odom... he can be a dominant rebounder and wing on the break and just needs to be more selective on his 3 point shooting...

He would be a nice piece next to barnes

FlashBolt
08-10-2017, 06:17 PM
LeBron's my favorite player. Westbrook is one of my fave because he stayed. I really like Paul George because he came back from a career ending injury and still ranks as a top 10-15 player. But I don't want to see them play with Westbrook. Someone who would play well with Westbrook would be Draymond and Gobert and then surround them with shooters. But LeBron and Westbrook? No thanks. LeBron should go to the Spurs if they can't get a bananaboat Co. in the Lakers. Kawhi+LeBron+CP3.. make it happen.

WaDe03
08-10-2017, 07:43 PM
LeBron's my favorite player. Westbrook is one of my fave because he stayed. I really like Paul George because he came back from a career ending injury and still ranks as a top 10-15 player. But I don't want to see them play with Westbrook. Someone who would play well with Westbrook would be Draymond and Gobert and then surround them with shooters. But LeBron and Westbrook? No thanks. LeBron should go to the Spurs if they can't get a bananaboat Co. in the Lakers. Kawhi+LeBron+CP3.. make it happen.

What players will the Spurs have under contract next year and how much cap space. I would rather see LeBron Wade and CP3 team up with Kawhi and Pop and I will become the Spurs Nation enforcer as this is a down time for kdspurman posting.

Jamiecballer
08-10-2017, 09:11 PM
As a teammate.Ahahaha this got me, can't believe I never thought it first

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
08-10-2017, 11:29 PM
What players will the Spurs have under contract next year and how much cap space. I would rather see LeBron Wade and CP3 team up with Kawhi and Pop and I will become the Spurs Nation enforcer as this is a down time for kdspurman posting.

I think it's somewhere around $40 million with Pau+Kawhi and two lesser players. Everyone else is under PO's or TO's. IDK what the deal is with Tony Parker but Patty is probably better than him in certain lineups. They do have enough for almost two elite players so it could be:

Kawhi
Patty
Pau
LeBron
PG

Which I think is the best option. You have two All-NBA defenders and the best player. That's two top five NBA players and a top 10-15. You have the best NBA coach. LeBron would probably be able to rotate PF duties with PG. He's getting up there with age so it's probably best if LeBron lets the other guys handle the ball. Idk about Wade+CP3. Spurs already have Patty and CP3 is too ball dominant. PG doesn't really need the ball as much and we all saw Kawhi dominate without pounding the ball. Realistically, it could work if LeBron just plays PG and commands everything else but Pop likes to move the ball around. Anyhow, I think this team matches insanely well with the Warriors.

Pau vs Zaza = Pau by a landslide.
Patty vs Curry = Curry easily.
Kawhi vs KD = a wash IMO. I think KD is a better offensive player but Kawhi's two-way ability is more potent than KD.
PG vs Klay = PG easy.
LeBron vs Green = LeBron easy. Draymond will never dominate LeBron in a PF matchup. LeBron's just stronger, bigger, quicker, and a smarter player. If Draymond can play PF, LeBron can too.

I know Warriors fans will dread that team. There is no possible scenario where they can beat that Spurs team.

WaDe03
08-11-2017, 10:48 AM
I think it's somewhere around $40 million with Pau+Kawhi and two lesser players. Everyone else is under PO's or TO's. IDK what the deal is with Tony Parker but Patty is probably better than him in certain lineups. They do have enough for almost two elite players so it could be:

Kawhi
Patty
Pau
LeBron
PG

Which I think is the best option. You have two All-NBA defenders and the best player. That's two top five NBA players and a top 10-15. You have the best NBA coach. LeBron would probably be able to rotate PF duties with PG. He's getting up there with age so it's probably best if LeBron lets the other guys handle the ball. Idk about Wade+CP3. Spurs already have Patty and CP3 is too ball dominant. PG doesn't really need the ball as much and we all saw Kawhi dominate without pounding the ball. Realistically, it could work if LeBron just plays PG and commands everything else but Pop likes to move the ball around. Anyhow, I think this team matches insanely well with the Warriors.

Pau vs Zaza = Pau by a landslide.
Patty vs Curry = Curry easily.
Kawhi vs KD = a wash IMO. I think KD is a better offensive player but Kawhi's two-way ability is more potent than KD.
PG vs Klay = PG easy.
LeBron vs Green = LeBron easy. Draymond will never dominate LeBron in a PF matchup. LeBron's just stronger, bigger, quicker, and a smarter player. If Draymond can play PF, LeBron can too.

I know Warriors fans will dread that team. There is no possible scenario where they can beat that Spurs team.

It's a shame PG probably wouldn't go to the Spurs since he seems dead set on the Lakers. Personally, I don't see CP3 leaving after just one season either.

Scoots
08-11-2017, 11:02 AM
I think it's somewhere around $40 million with Pau+Kawhi and two lesser players. Everyone else is under PO's or TO's. IDK what the deal is with Tony Parker but Patty is probably better than him in certain lineups. They do have enough for almost two elite players so it could be:

Kawhi
Patty
Pau
LeBron
PG

Which I think is the best option. You have two All-NBA defenders and the best player. That's two top five NBA players and a top 10-15. You have the best NBA coach. LeBron would probably be able to rotate PF duties with PG. He's getting up there with age so it's probably best if LeBron lets the other guys handle the ball. Idk about Wade+CP3. Spurs already have Patty and CP3 is too ball dominant. PG doesn't really need the ball as much and we all saw Kawhi dominate without pounding the ball. Realistically, it could work if LeBron just plays PG and commands everything else but Pop likes to move the ball around. Anyhow, I think this team matches insanely well with the Warriors.

Pau vs Zaza = Pau by a landslide.
Patty vs Curry = Curry easily.
Kawhi vs KD = a wash IMO. I think KD is a better offensive player but Kawhi's two-way ability is more potent than KD.
PG vs Klay = PG easy.
LeBron vs Green = LeBron easy. Draymond will never dominate LeBron in a PF matchup. LeBron's just stronger, bigger, quicker, and a smarter player. If Draymond can play PF, LeBron can too.

I know Warriors fans will dread that team. There is no possible scenario where they can beat that Spurs team.

It wouldn't be Pau vs Zaza though. Zaza played 18 minutes a game last year, it's going to go down, probably under 15 this year, and the year after that he may well not be on the team. Meanwhile Pau's going to be 39 years old by the end of 2019.

Add to that that Kawhi has a player option for 2019 so he may not be on the team at all.

LeBron will be 34 by then and certainly further past his prime.

Then on the flip side, the Spurs top 2 players (KD and PG) will be younger than the Warriors top players, and both will have mystery benches, and with older players the quality of the benches will really matter.

So, yeah ... there are a lot of possible scenario's where those Warriors could beat that Spurs team, but there are also chances that Spurs team wins.

WaDe03
08-11-2017, 11:11 AM
It wouldn't be Pau vs Zaza though. Zaza played 18 minutes a game last year, it's going to go down, probably under 15 this year, and the year after that he may well not be on the team. Meanwhile Pau's going to be 39 years old by the end of 2019.

Add to that that Kawhi has a player option for 2019 so he may not be on the team at all.

LeBron will be 34 by then and certainly further past his prime.

Then on the flip side, the Spurs top 2 players (KD and PG) will be younger than the Warriors top players, and both will have mystery benches, and with older players the quality of the benches will really matter.

So, yeah ... there are a lot of possible scenario's where those Warriors could beat that Spurs team, but there are also chances that Spurs team wins.

You mean KL and PG? LeBron would still be the top player, Jordan was winning rings until he was 35, could've possibly went longer.

FlashBolt
08-11-2017, 11:59 AM
It wouldn't be Pau vs Zaza though. Zaza played 18 minutes a game last year, it's going to go down, probably under 15 this year, and the year after that he may well not be on the team. Meanwhile Pau's going to be 39 years old by the end of 2019.

Add to that that Kawhi has a player option for 2019 so he may not be on the team at all.

LeBron will be 34 by then and certainly further past his prime.

Then on the flip side, the Spurs top 2 players (KD and PG) will be younger than the Warriors top players, and both will have mystery benches, and with older players the quality of the benches will really matter.

So, yeah ... there are a lot of possible scenario's where those Warriors could beat that Spurs team, but there are also chances that Spurs team wins.

1) I only mentioned Zaza because he's their starter last year and presumably this year as well. Who else? McGee? I mean, Warriors don't really have a legit C I can give any credit to. Even though Pau will be very old, his size and fundamentals of the game make for a good aging process.

2) Kawhi isn't leaving. I'm not even crossing that path at all. I think Kawhi would quit the NBA rather than leave the Spurs, tbh.

3) Further past his prime.. C'mon, dude. He just put up the best NBA Finals of his career and is still recognized as the best player. He won't drop off the way some of you guys think. The dude spends millions rehabilitating his body every year. There's no point in doubting how he ages at this point. He's already developed a game that would allow him to just mentally beat opponents. His athleticism declining still puts him at the top of all athletes.

4) Didn't quite understand your last part. I just don't see how Warriors win when Cavs alone could put up a fight up until they got KD. That Spurs team I created is 10x better than the Cavs. Hell, LeBron+Kawhi alone is better than LeBron+Kyrie+Love. I don't see it. Draymond has no answer for LeBron at PF. He has no advantages. He can't bully LeBron because LeBron outsmarted him in the Finals last year already. Kawhi was putting KD on clamps in game 1 of the WCF. He can defend KD very well. PG's length would make it incredibly difficult for Klay.. switch PG on Curry and it'll be a nightmare for Curry trying to make up for that length differential. Pau Gasol is still very capable of being a double-double player on any given night.

Scoots
08-11-2017, 12:27 PM
You mean KL and PG? LeBron would still be the top player, Jordan was winning rings until he was 35, could've possibly went longer.

I'm projecting that KL may pass him by then.

Scoots
08-11-2017, 12:30 PM
3) Further past his prime.. C'mon, dude. He just put up the best NBA Finals of his career and is still recognized as the best player. He won't drop off the way some of you guys think. The dude spends millions rehabilitating his body every year. There's no point in doubting how he ages at this point. He's already developed a game that would allow him to just mentally beat opponents. His athleticism declining still puts him at the top of all athletes.

I love how in one paragraph you argue that LeBron is still at his peak and say he's declining.

WaDe03
08-11-2017, 12:50 PM
Small ball lineups:

Curry
Klay
Iggy
Durant
Green

Mills
Wade
PG
Kawhi
LeBron

That Spurs team would **** the Warriors up. Get it done for the nation RC and Pop!!!!

IKnowHoops
08-11-2017, 01:03 PM
I actually wonder what the Warriors would do if they got that call? Move Draymond to starting at C, KD at PF, and LeBron at SF? The biggest issue would be would LeBron play within their system or would he want to be the system.

Lebron would fit in. They would not change a thing. Bron would know and understand that before...well he knows that now. The only player I think they change slightly for is Shaq. I can see them feeding him down low 4-5 times in a row based on a one on one with a 6-5 guy cause of bad rotations. But for any other player, Jordan included, you fit into an already dominant system that already has so many capable players. You fit in and make the game easier on yourself.

FlashBolt
08-11-2017, 01:07 PM
I love how in one paragraph you argue that LeBron is still at his peak and say he's declining.

No, I said his athleticism is declining. In terms of his basketball skillset, it's still at his peak and I don't see that changing. The only way LeBron really declines is when his athleticism drops to the league average - which would take more than a year or two. I never said LeBron was at his peak (even though it's debatable). I said he's still putting up elite seasons. Of course age will cause a drop-off once you begin your 30's. But let's not act like LeBron isn't one of the most gifted athletes in the world and that age 34 is more imposing than it really is. The way I see it, LeBron is a smart businessman and knows he needs to continue pumping his basketball product for another 3-5 years so he can fully establish his business portfolio. He knows he has a lot on the line in maintaining his body.. so I don't see it changing. Like I said, spends MILLIONS in rehabilitating. That's insane.

IKnowHoops
08-11-2017, 01:30 PM
Yeah, I don't see the Lakers big 3 really beating GS.

Spurs with Pop/Bron/Kahwai/PG13 and Spurs roll players and that could beat GS.

Or

Wolves with...
PG Lebron
SG Wiggins
SF Butler
PF PG13
C Towns

Definitely gets it done.

Now before someone starts crying about salaries, yes, If you want to beat GS, players will have to take pay cuts just as Durant did.

WaDe03
08-11-2017, 01:48 PM
Yeah, I don't see the Lakers big 3 really beating GS.

Spurs with Pop/Bron/Kahwai/PG13 and Spurs roll players and that could beat GS.

Or

Wolves with...
PG Lebron
SG Wiggins
SF Butler
PF PG13
C Towns

Definitely gets it done.

Now before someone starts crying about salaries, yes, If you want to beat GS, players will have to take pay cuts just as Durant did.

And when players do build the ultimate team that will smack the Warriors, just remember KD started it all.

Scoots
08-11-2017, 02:00 PM
No, I said his athleticism is declining. In terms of his basketball skillset, it's still at his peak and I don't see that changing. The only way LeBron really declines is when his athleticism drops to the league average - which would take more than a year or two. I never said LeBron was at his peak (even though it's debatable). I said he's still putting up elite seasons. Of course age will cause a drop-off once you begin your 30's. But let's not act like LeBron isn't one of the most gifted athletes in the world and that age 34 is more imposing than it really is. The way I see it, LeBron is a smart businessman and knows he needs to continue pumping his basketball product for another 3-5 years so he can fully establish his business portfolio. He knows he has a lot on the line in maintaining his body.. so I don't see it changing. Like I said, spends MILLIONS in rehabilitating. That's insane.

Yeah, so he IS declining and will continue to do so. Yes, he still thinks an elite game and that's not going to go away, but his body's ability to keep doing the things he wants it to do will decline more in the next 2 years.

FlashBolt
08-11-2017, 04:27 PM
Yeah, so he IS declining and will continue to do so. Yes, he still thinks an elite game and that's not going to go away, but his body's ability to keep doing the things he wants it to do will decline more in the next 2 years.

In other words, you just like dragging on something that is obvious? I'm not sure what you're getting at. LeBron was physically the best at age 26. Was that the best LeBron we saw? Nope. So what changed? Uhhh, he's relied less on athleticism and more on the mental/strategic parts of the game. So yes, the only thing declining is his athleticism but in two years, he'd still be one of the best athletes in the world physically. You act like KD and Curry won't have a declining body, too. Those guys are all past their peak physically but you don't mention that at all. And I will continue denying LeBron's tangible decline season by season until he actually shows a huge decline. When he drops from being the best player to no longer a top five, then that's a decline.

Scoots
08-11-2017, 08:17 PM
In other words, you just like dragging on something that is obvious? I'm not sure what you're getting at. LeBron was physically the best at age 26. Was that the best LeBron we saw? Nope. So what changed? Uhhh, he's relied less on athleticism and more on the mental/strategic parts of the game. So yes, the only thing declining is his athleticism but in two years, he'd still be one of the best athletes in the world physically. You act like KD and Curry won't have a declining body, too. Those guys are all past their peak physically but you don't mention that at all. And I will continue denying LeBron's tangible decline season by season until he actually shows a huge decline. When he drops from being the best player to no longer a top five, then that's a decline.

And all I'm saying is that he's going to decline, and in 2 years it may be considerably more obvious. The most obvious way his aging may show is he will become more likely to get injured over time. He's been very reliable thus far, but that is not guarantee he will continue to be so lucky. And yes, Curry and KD may decline too, but odds are LeBron will decline more.

You said essentially that the team you constructed would dominate the Warriors, and anybody doubting it was wrong. I said the Warriors would have a chance against that team. So you are literally arguing that a team that is incredibly unlikely to ever happen will dominate a team that is real now, but is very unlikely to be the same in 2 years time.

Nevermind.

FlashBolt
08-11-2017, 10:38 PM
And all I'm saying is that he's going to decline, and in 2 years it may be considerably more obvious. The most obvious way his aging may show is he will become more likely to get injured over time. He's been very reliable thus far, but that is not guarantee he will continue to be so lucky. And yes, Curry and KD may decline too, but odds are LeBron will decline more.

You said essentially that the team you constructed would dominate the Warriors, and anybody doubting it was wrong. I said the Warriors would have a chance against that team. So you are literally arguing that a team that is incredibly unlikely to ever happen will dominate a team that is real now, but is very unlikely to be the same in 2 years time.

Nevermind.

LeBron has been healthier than Curry+KD COMBINED. This guy is showing us what millions of dollars in R&D and equipment can do for your body. The guy is age 32 and is still more physically imposing than 99% of the NBA. Lucky? C'mon, dude. He's been doing it for 14 years professionally. What luck are we exactly talking about? The guy plays smart and knows how to take care of himself. Yes, aging will take over eventually but his game will age very well and allow him to continue playing at an elite level.

Oh, no. I stand by that statement. Kawhi, LeBron, and Paul George would break the league more-so than the Warriors have.

lakers squad
08-12-2017, 01:17 AM
It's a shame PG probably wouldn't go to the Spurs since he seems dead set on the Lakers. Personally, I don't see CP3 leaving after just one season either.

I don't think the spurs have a legit shot to land LBJ...pop is a great coach, but not who Lebron would be high on playing for imo...I would put odds at about 5% for the spurs 25% he stays with the cav's, 35% he go's out to the lakeshow, and ill give the field a 35% chance!

GREATNESS ONE
08-12-2017, 01:30 AM
Does Lebron own a house in SA? His adult home is LA. He wants to retire in LA. Next year we're getting PG & Bron, plus keeping KCP and Lopez and everyone is gonna freak.

GREATNESS ONE
08-12-2017, 01:32 AM
The only way Lebro surpasses all expectations and get even the biggest Lebron critics will smile, is winning 2 rings in LAL.

Passing the Celtics is going to be epic and I can see that day coming soon.

FlashBolt
08-12-2017, 07:50 PM
Does Lebron own a house in SA? His adult home is LA. He wants to retire in LA. Next year we're getting PG & Bron, plus keeping KCP and Lopez and everyone is gonna freak.

LeBron didn't own a house in Miami before he went to Miami.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-13-2017, 09:16 AM
Does Lebron own a house in SA? His adult home is LA. He wants to retire in LA. Next year we're getting PG & Bron, plus keeping KCP and Lopez and everyone is gonna freak.

How so? LeBron probably wants the super max for him is like what $40M or more per? PG13 probably get like $30M or so per. KCP and Lopez probably have to take vet minimum deals. Doubt KCP/Lopez is ready for that yet. So even if you dump Deng and Clarkson and have like what $70M in cap? Its all gone just landing LeBron and PG13. Probably have to renounce Randle as well.

Scoots
08-13-2017, 11:25 AM
Does Lebron own a house in SA? His adult home is LA. He wants to retire in LA. Next year we're getting PG & Bron, plus keeping KCP and Lopez and everyone is gonna freak.

Lopez wants to play for the vet min with the Warriors though, and KCP is looking for a pay day.

Mr.B
08-13-2017, 05:29 PM
I don't think you owning a home in a particular city means you're automatically going to play there. Jermaine O'Neal has owned a home in Dallas throughout most of playing career and he never once played for the Mavs. He just likes the city.

lakers squad
08-13-2017, 06:09 PM
How so? LeBron probably wants the super max for him is like what $40M or more per? PG13 probably get like $30M or so per. KCP and Lopez probably have to take vet minimum deals. Doubt KCP/Lopez is ready for that yet. So even if you dump Deng and Clarkson and have like what $70M in cap? Its all gone just landing LeBron and PG13. Probably have to renounce Randle as well.

Lakers could actually clear up to 85 mil, if they really had too!

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-14-2017, 08:47 AM
Yeah $85M is plenty for LeBron and another guy. But for a big 3? Probably not. I bet LeBron fetches like $40M per to $45M per. Then Westbrook and PG13 easily get $35M per easily or whatever their vets status is for max contracts for years. You almost need $100M per just for them three guys unless back loaded or pay cuts. Unless ya settle for a old banana boat guy like Wade which may cost less here on out.

But still enough like $20M per or maybe $15M per as a discount. So $55M per maybe gets ya LeBron and Wade combo. Then $30M per left for either PG13 or Westbrook. But that's pushing it. Hard to say if LeBron takes a discount to get a big4 for Lakers. But if he doesn't. Then more then likely he gets squashed by Warriors in the west easily.

Unless after Irving dealt somewhere. Cavs kinda fizz out early in the season and LeBron asks for a trade to Lakers and Lakers dump Deng with Ingram for LeBron. Then I guess a Clarkson and Randle and salary filler to Bulls for Wade. Then you got a big 2 yet. Besides still have Ball. Then next summer go hard after a guy while bring back LeBron and Wade as the recruiters. Maybe flip KCP at trade deadline for another banana boat guy.

Vinylman
08-14-2017, 10:13 AM
Lopez wants to play for the vet min with the Warriors though, and KCP is looking for a pay day.

I could actually see him doing that ... its just weird that these guys value a championship where they will get no credit for it that much more than money... it really speaks to the lack of competitiveness of this generation

Hawkeye15
08-14-2017, 10:16 AM
I could actually see him doing that ... its just weird that these guys value a championship where they will get no credit for it that much more than money... it really speaks to the lack of competitiveness of this generation

some would say that is a good thing though. Not that I do, but doesn't our young population want to help everyone, give puppies to the homeless, and save the world? Why would they care about money and glory, when they can be part of a group accomplishment?

Unicorns and rainbows buddy

Scoots
08-14-2017, 10:22 AM
I could actually see him doing that ... its just weird that these guys value a championship where they will get no credit for it that much more than money... it really speaks to the lack of competitiveness of this generation

Or that they've seen how much the previous generation crows about their rings and craps on the players who didn't get one. Shaq changed teams to win a ring. KG changed teams to win a ring And they were hardly the first nor even the only examples of their generation. Makes me think competitiveness isn't really all that different now than ever.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2017, 11:03 AM
Or that they've seen how much the previous generation crows about their rings and craps on the players who didn't get one. Shaq changed teams to win a ring. KG changed teams to win a ring And they were hardly the first nor even the only examples of their generation. Makes me think competitiveness isn't really all that different now than ever.

to be fair, it doesn't matter what you do now, the older generation WILL find something to nitpick you and bring your game down. You can't shut off the competitiveness, so even these older players still have pride, and can't sack up and admit many times that maybe their era wasn't what they believe it was...

If you ask Barkley, nobody in today's NBA would have been a star back when he played.

As for more movement in free agency, well, that is just part of development. Guys yesterday can't hold it against the modern players without understanding it's just far more common now. Guys can sacrifice a little money, and still make more than one knows what to do with in a lifetime, let alone a year (unless you are Antoine Walker).

Vinylman
08-14-2017, 11:11 AM
Or that they've seen how much the previous generation crows about their rings and craps on the players who didn't get one. Shaq changed teams to win a ring. KG changed teams to win a ring And they were hardly the first nor even the only examples of their generation. Makes me think competitiveness isn't really all that different now than ever.

false equivalency... shaq did not got to a team via FA that was ready made to win... nor did he go to the Lakers and take less money... he went to the lakers and got MORE money than Orlando had offered him

KG never left on his own... he was traded and didn't even want to go to Boston at first... but he sure as **** didn't take less money

It is what it is today but to try and compare it to what has happened in the past is disingenuous...

FlashBolt
08-14-2017, 11:14 AM
Lakers could actually clear up to 85 mil, if they really had too!

I said it before, LeBron and Curry are worth minimum, $75 million each. What they have done for the sport is just absurd. All these huge contracts aren't coming into existence out of nowhere. These two revolutionized basketball and this new generation of fans are going to be bigger fans than all of us.

Vinylman
08-14-2017, 11:15 AM
to be fair, it doesn't matter what you do now, the older generation WILL find something to nitpick you and bring your game down. You can't shut off the competitiveness, so even these older players still have pride, and can't sack up and admit many times that maybe their era wasn't what they believe it was...

If you ask Barkley, nobody in today's NBA would have been a star back when he played.

As for more movement in free agency, well, that is just part of development. Guys yesterday can't hold it against the modern players without understanding it's just far more common now. Guys can sacrifice a little money, and still make more than one knows what to do with in a lifetime, let alone a year (unless you are Antoine Walker).

but they can only do it because the top salaries are artificially depressed... if you had an unfettered system most of these guys coming out of their rookie deals wouldn't be getting paid ****. That is what is driving up the middle guys getting so much who can then turnaround after 7 years and "sacrifice" Real hard to sacrifice when you go into your age 28 season already having made $100 million :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
08-14-2017, 11:19 AM
but they can only do it because the top salaries are artificially depressed... if you had an unfettered system most of these guys coming out of their rookie deals wouldn't be getting paid ****. That is what is driving up the middle guys getting so much who can then turnaround after 7 years and "sacrifice" Real hard to sacrifice when you go into your age 28 season already having made $100 million :rolleyes:

oh I agree completely. When LeBron isn't making much more than Conley, who isn't making much more than Otto Porter, who isn't making much more than Steven Adams, we have a problem.

hugepatsfan
08-14-2017, 11:44 AM
Yeah $85M is plenty for LeBron and another guy. But for a big 3? Probably not. I bet LeBron fetches like $40M per to $45M per. Then Westbrook and PG13 easily get $35M per easily or whatever their vets status is for max contracts for years. You almost need $100M per just for them three guys unless back loaded or pay cuts. Unless ya settle for a old banana boat guy like Wade which may cost less here on out.

But still enough like $20M per or maybe $15M per as a discount. So $55M per maybe gets ya LeBron and Wade combo. Then $30M per left for either PG13 or Westbrook. But that's pushing it. Hard to say if LeBron takes a discount to get a big4 for Lakers. But if he doesn't. Then more then likely he gets squashed by Warriors in the west easily.

Unless after Irving dealt somewhere. Cavs kinda fizz out early in the season and LeBron asks for a trade to Lakers and Lakers dump Deng with Ingram for LeBron. Then I guess a Clarkson and Randle and salary filler to Bulls for Wade. Then you got a big 2 yet. Besides still have Ball. Then next summer go hard after a guy while bring back LeBron and Wade as the recruiters. Maybe flip KCP at trade deadline for another banana boat guy.

I don't think the Lakers are going to be able to land 3 big name players. They could conceivably get there, but they'll have to dump more than the Clarkson and Deng's of their team. A max is 30% of the cap for most players so just as a general guideline 3 of those guy will cost 90% of the cap. And Lebron is actually a 35% max guy so before pay cuts they need to clear 95% of the cap. That's going to require them dumping pretty much all of their young players - Ball, Ingram, Zubac, Nance, Randle.

In the end, I think they'll smartly determine that the benefit of signing a third star doesn't outweigh keeping all of those good young players (some with star potential themselves) and signing another good, not great piece. I think they'll be able to land two top FAs and then a 3rd good, not great player (i.e. Avery Bradley or re-signing KCP).

WaDe03
08-14-2017, 02:36 PM
So you all think LeBron is going to sit back and let the Warriors run the league? He's going to put together a new superteam. Stay WOKE!!

Scoots
08-14-2017, 03:22 PM
false equivalency... shaq did not got to a team via FA that was ready made to win... nor did he go to the Lakers and take less money... he went to the lakers and got MORE money than Orlando had offered him

KG never left on his own... he was traded and didn't even want to go to Boston at first... but he sure as **** didn't take less money

It is what it is today but to try and compare it to what has happened in the past is disingenuous...

I didn't say they were equivalent. You seem to be crapping on people wanting to win more than money, but I bet you would likewise be pissed if a guy turned your team down to make a little more money on a bad team.

Free agency is nothing new.

You're position that players today care about rings more than guys in the past, and somehow wanting to win makes them less competitive? Talk about disingenuous.

Scoots
08-14-2017, 03:23 PM
I said it before, LeBron and Curry are worth minimum, $75 million each. What they have done for the sport is just absurd. All these huge contracts aren't coming into existence out of nowhere. These two revolutionized basketball and this new generation of fans are going to be bigger fans than all of us.

And there are a lot of people out there who are mad they are making what they are making now.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2017, 03:24 PM
I didn't say they were equivalent. You seem to be crapping on people wanting to win more than money, but I bet you would likewise be pissed if a guy turned your team down to make a little more money on a bad team.

Free agency is nothing new.

You're position that players today care about rings more than guys in the past, and somehow wanting to win makes them less competitive? Talk about disingenuous.

no, it isn't. But the number of star players using it has climbed exponentially, and when we factor in social media, ie, when a nobody signs everyone is updated immediately, it just makes it seem like today's players have no loyalty. When in fact, it has been a growing trend since Tom Chambers. I think FA has spawned 2 of the best 3 teams of the past 7 years (well, put GS into the dream scenario and destroyed the league), so people view it much more negatively now.

The old timers who say they would never have done this, gtfo, yes, you would today.

Scoots
08-14-2017, 03:26 PM
but they can only do it because the top salaries are artificially depressed... if you had an unfettered system most of these guys coming out of their rookie deals wouldn't be getting paid ****. That is what is driving up the middle guys getting so much who can then turnaround after 7 years and "sacrifice" Real hard to sacrifice when you go into your age 28 season already having made $100 million :rolleyes:

The CBA itself is just to get around free market rules. But they can't have no CBA without getting in trouble with congress.

I'm a long time proponent of the NBA being totally unrestricted, but my guess is you would have plenty of complaints about that as well because all of the teams would have to operate totally independently.

lakers squad
08-15-2017, 01:19 PM
I don't think the Lakers are going to be able to land 3 big name players. They could conceivably get there, but they'll have to dump more than the Clarkson and Deng's of their team. A max is 30% of the cap for most players so just as a general guideline 3 of those guy will cost 90% of the cap. And Lebron is actually a 35% max guy so before pay cuts they need to clear 95% of the cap. That's going to require them dumping pretty much all of their young players - Ball, Ingram, Zubac, Nance, Randle.

In the end, I think they'll smartly determine that the benefit of signing a third star doesn't outweigh keeping all of those good young players (some with star potential themselves) and signing another good, not great piece. I think they'll be able to land two top FAs and then a 3rd good, not great player (i.e. Avery Bradley or re-signing KCP).
I agree completely with everything you said. The only way we get a big 3 would take a big sacrifice from all of them money wise, it's much more likely we sign a big two, and a good complementary player, are we just resign KCP!

lakers squad
08-15-2017, 01:31 PM
So you all think LeBron is going to sit back and let the Warriors run the league? He's going to put together a new superteam. Stay WOKE!!
But this is what I keep coming back too. LBJ wants to help put together a superteam that can take down the warriors. You can bet that PG13 does as well, how bout Westbrook, Do you think he doesn't want to take down the warriors? If all these guy's get together and decide that's the most important thing to them, and I would almost bet it is. There is a possibility of a big 3, even if it seem's unlikely! P.S. I think the lakers already have two future all stars, possible superstar's on their roster!

Vinylman
08-15-2017, 01:41 PM
I didn't say they were equivalent. You seem to be crapping on people wanting to win more than money, but I bet you would likewise be pissed if a guy turned your team down to make a little more money on a bad team.

Free agency is nothing new.

You're position that players today care about rings more than guys in the past, and somehow wanting to win makes them less competitive? Talk about disingenuous.

omg... YOU said Shaq left to win a ring... no he ****ing didn't ... the magic low balled him... he was on a team that was young and went to the finals... the lakers were neither... he went to the lakers to make more money on and off the court...

to use him as a comparative to the ***** Durant is beyond idiotic... Durant did not believe his skill could win a chip without joining up with a team that had already won and only lost the prior year because DG couldn't avoid acting like a petulant child

SHAQ went to a worse team...

This **** is plain as day... enjoy the Dubs chips... just stop trying to defend the ***** that is KD

I would

Scoots
08-15-2017, 10:43 PM
omg... YOU said Shaq left to win a ring... no he ****ing didn't ... the magic low balled him... he was on a team that was young and went to the finals... the lakers were neither... he went to the lakers to make more money on and off the court...

to use him as a comparative to the ***** Durant is beyond idiotic... Durant did not believe his skill could win a chip without joining up with a team that had already won and only lost the prior year because DG couldn't avoid acting like a petulant child

SHAQ went to a worse team...

This **** is plain as day... enjoy the Dubs chips... just stop trying to defend the ***** that is KD

I would

I didn't bring up Durant, and I wasn't trying to defend him ... we were talking about Lopez. I think maybe you have a complex or something.

Vinylman
08-16-2017, 08:37 AM
I didn't bring up Durant, and I wasn't trying to defend him ... we were talking about Lopez. I think maybe you have a complex or something.

deflect deflect deflect

your comments about both shaq and KG are factually incorrect and are irrelevant to guys being pusseeeees and joining up for less money...

Can't wait to see KD wearing the Vagisil patch on his jersey this year.... it is going to be epic

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 09:01 AM
I mean, there is no precedent for Durant. Anyone defending him should just stop. No superstar, in his peak, took less money, to join a team that didn't even need his *** to win it all. It's seriously the pansiest move in sports that I can remember.

All that said, he did it knowing the consequences, and he doesn't care what I think, or anyone else. Winning a ring was all that mattered to him, and he decided his individual legacy didn't matter compared to winning. So more power to him. But people need to never defend him. He is a complete nancy

Heediot
08-16-2017, 09:07 AM
Shaq left Orlando for Hollywood. His rapping and acting sucked but he was a good with marketing himself and his brand. Orlando was willing to match or exceed Shaq's worth on the market with Bird rights. Shaq already had his mind made up.

Shaq joined a nice young core who made the playoffs though, it wasn't like he was joining a **** team. The thing he lucked into was the Vlade for Kobe trade, Kobe ended up being one of the goats which helped Shaq get some rings.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 09:19 AM
Shaq left Orlando for Hollywood. His rapping and acting sucked but he was a good with marketing himself and his brand. Orlando was willing to match or exceed Shaq's worth on the market with Bird rights. Shaq already had his mind made up.

Shaq joined a nice young core who made the playoffs though, it wasn't like he was joining a **** team. The thing he lucked into was the Vlade for Kobe trade, Kobe ended up being one of the goats which helped Shaq get some rings.

I mean, he was going to the Showtime Lakers...the team was 'down" after the Magic era went away, but the Lakers were never down with Buss. He went for the glitz, and no doubt had some confidence the Lakers were on the up again.

It's still totally different than joining a team that has the 2 time MVP in hand, a couple other all NBA players, a finals MVP bench guy, and just broke the win record hahaha.

Scoots
08-16-2017, 09:21 AM
deflect deflect deflect

your comments about both shaq and KG are factually incorrect and are irrelevant to guys being pusseeeees and joining up for less money...

Can't wait to see KD wearing the Vagisil patch on his jersey this year.... it is going to be epic

You replied to a comment of mine about Lopez, I replied, still about Lopez, and you then started down your KD spiral. But I'm the one changing the subject? And as far as I know I didn't say anything factually incorrect.

Heediot
08-16-2017, 09:25 AM
I mean, he was going to the Showtime Lakers...the team was 'down" after the Magic era went away, but the Lakers were never down with Buss. He went for the glitz, and no doubt had some confidence the Lakers were on the up again.

It's still totally different than joining a team that has the 2 time MVP in hand, a couple other all NBA players, a finals MVP bench guy, and just broke the win record hahaha.

Yeah it was a totally different situation, he wasn't joining a juggernaut like KD. The Laker's potential was very high though and you are right about Jerry Buss, he knew how to run a team. KD joining the Twolves or some **** would be comparable.

warfelg
08-16-2017, 09:26 AM
Shaq left Orlando for Hollywood. His rapping and acting sucked but he was a good with marketing himself and his brand. Orlando was willing to match or exceed Shaq's worth on the market with Bird rights. Shaq already had his mind made up.

Shaq joined a nice young core who made the playoffs though, it wasn't like he was joining a **** team. The thing he lucked into was the Vlade for Kobe trade, Kobe ended up being one of the goats which helped Shaq get some rings.

Well, kinda exactly why Shaq's situation is nothing like KD's.

If say, PG signed with the Sixers, that would be like Shaq. A team that is young, and that star is what makes everything change.

Hawkeye is right....there's nothing that can be compared to what KD did. Sure sometimes guys have taken less, like Bron, Wade, Bosh did....but they didn't take a cut from close to what KD did. In fact the thing that's most kinda frustrating, and I'm sure it's what bothers a few other guys in the NBA, is that it was done to keep the role players. When other stars have teamed up it came at the expense of having a deep quality team. If KD took a cut to keep Klay, Curry, Green....people wouldn't be upset. But the thing that's made the GSW as dominate as they are isn't just the stars, it's that they can put people on the bench and have starting quality players come in the game. If they didn't have Iggy, Livingston, and the 3-4 vet mins that could still play big minutes elsewhere...I think some of these games would be closer.

Heediot
08-16-2017, 09:34 AM
Well, kinda exactly why Shaq's situation is nothing like KD's.

If say, PG signed with the Sixers, that would be like Shaq. A team that is young, and that star is what makes everything change.

Hawkeye is right....there's nothing that can be compared to what KD did. Sure sometimes guys have taken less, like Bron, Wade, Bosh did....but they didn't take a cut from close to what KD did. In fact the thing that's most kinda frustrating, and I'm sure it's what bothers a few other guys in the NBA, is that it was done to keep the role players. When other stars have teamed up it came at the expense of having a deep quality team. If KD took a cut to keep Klay, Curry, Green....people wouldn't be upset. But the thing that's made the GSW as dominate as they are isn't just the stars, it's that they can put people on the bench and have starting quality players come in the game. If they didn't have Iggy, Livingston, and the 3-4 vet mins that could still play big minutes elsewhere...I think some of these games would be closer.

Yeah I feel you.

What rubs me worse (than him joining GS) is the way he joined GS, he was misleading OKC and telling them what they wanted to hear about him returning and poof he screws them over. I think him wanting to play with some of the GS guys is more genuine then people give him credit for. Guys like PG, Paul and Kyrie showed more honesty about what they wanted to do.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 09:44 AM
Yeah I feel you.

What rubs me worse (than him joining GS) is the way he joined GS, he was misleading OKC and telling them what they wanted to hear about him returning and poof he screws them over. I think him wanting to play with some of the GS guys is more genuine then people give him credit for. Guys like PG, Paul and Kyrie showed more honesty about what they wanted to do.

or that he acts like he can't understand why people are upset. Durant gets literally offended when people bring up the fact that he ruined the league with his decision. Dude, suck it up, you changed the landscape of the NBA for the near future, just enjoy it buttercup. Compound that with his criticism years ago of what LeBron did (which was exponentially less weak), and he is a walking hypocrite.

Funny, he went from likeable, to hateable, overnight. Interesting how things work..

warfelg
08-16-2017, 09:59 AM
or that he acts like he can't understand why people are upset. Durant gets literally offended when people bring up the fact that he ruined the league with his decision. Dude, suck it up, you changed the landscape of the NBA for the near future, just enjoy it buttercup. Compound that with his criticism years ago of what LeBron did (which was exponentially less weak), and he is a walking hypocrite.

Funny, he went from likeable, to hateable, overnight. Interesting how things work..

Amen. I wish he would just embrace it. Hell, blame the fans and say "if you didn't put such importance on only rings, I wouldn't have felt the need for this".

Because....isn't that part of the problem? We're in the era of "rings or you aren't good" according to fans. It's ruining everything IMO. Players care more about teaming up and getting an easy ring than being a fighter and someone that pushes the limits of what they can do individually.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 10:07 AM
Amen. I wish he would just embrace it. Hell, blame the fans and say "if you didn't put such importance on only rings, I wouldn't have felt the need for this".

Because....isn't that part of the problem? We're in the era of "rings or you aren't good" according to fans. It's ruining everything IMO. Players care more about teaming up and getting an easy ring than being a fighter and someone that pushes the limits of what they can do individually.


some of that is the insane money now too. It's not like NBA players were ever hurting, but guys now can take pay cuts, and still make more than they know what to do with. That wasn't the case long ago. Hell guys like Karl Malone were straight up livid when KG got his first deal with the Wolves. Those are the guys from the era crapping on today's players for being soft. And I get why..Greg Kite or Matt Geiger would make $8 million a year today hahaha. Guys like KD can take a paycut (what a saint), and still make $30 million.

Yes, sack up Durant, and just say, "I am a *****, I wanted the rings, screw what you guys think of my legacy, I don't care where I am ranked when I am done". If he did that, I would shut up, cause I would have nothing to say but, "ok then.."

lakers squad
08-16-2017, 10:17 AM
I mean, he was going to the Showtime Lakers...the team was 'down" after the Magic era went away, but the Lakers were never down with Buss. He went for the glitz, and no doubt had some confidence the Lakers were on the up again.

It's still totally different than joining a team that has the 2 time MVP in hand, a couple other all NBA players, a finals MVP bench guy, and just broke the win record hahaha.

LBJ's move to the heat is the only thing you could compare to what Durant did imo, but that in it's self was a little different as he got together with other player's to form that team. Durant jumped on the bandwagon with a team that was already probably the best team. I didn't care for ether move these guy's made as both seemed like a cop out I guess you could say. KD'S move more so than LBJ, but both saw easier route's to a title and took it. Now it has created a environment were alot of the top player's will feel like they have to do these kind of move's to ever capture a title, So this kind of stuff is becoming your new norm now. We all might not like it, but we all probably need to get use to it as well!

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 10:33 AM
LBJ's move to the heat is the only thing you could compare to what Durant did imo, but that in it's self was a little different as he got together with other player's to form that team. Durant jumped on the bandwagon with a team that was already probably the best team. I didn't care for ether move these guy's made as both seemed like a cop out I guess you could say. KD'S move more so than LBJ, but both saw easier route's to a title and took it. Now it has created a environment were alot of the top player's will feel like they have to do these kind of move's to ever capture a title, So this kind of stuff is becoming your new norm now. We all might not like it, but we all probably need to get use to it as well!

LeBron's move was new, and unique. I think it's a complete stand alone.

But, he joined 2 other players, knowing (or at least we know now) that he would still have to be the alpha, and the team would win or lose with how he played. Of course after the fact we know Wade hit decline after their first year together fast, and their role players were awful players. LeBron still needed to be the best player in the game, series, and world, for his team to win, something Durant doesn't need to do, at all. He doesn't even need to be there in fact, we know that.

The similarity is for sure that they both made a tough decision, that affected them very negatively publically, and they made that decision to put themselves in the best position to win chips. Durant just happened to hit the market when 2 things happened:

an all time team was existing
that all time team had max cap room due to a spike in the cap

We don't know what James would have done in the same position, but we don't need to. For anyone that considers what James did weak, they must consider what Durant did a different word all together, because it's the least competitive thing a person could do.

lakers squad
08-16-2017, 10:55 AM
@ Hawkeye...I completely agree, KD'S move is on a level that it's not fair to compare to any move another player has ever made before! The opportunity was created by a couple of extraordinary event's we have never seen before are probably will never see again.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 11:09 AM
@ Hawkeye...I completely agree, KD'S move is on a level that it's not fair to compare to any move another player has ever made before! The opportunity was created by a couple of extraordinary event's we have never seen before are probably will never see again.

that cap explosion....ugh. Came at the worst possible time, for anyone that isn't a GS fan.

Vinylman
08-16-2017, 11:52 AM
Shaq left Orlando for Hollywood. His rapping and acting sucked but he was a good with marketing himself and his brand. Orlando was willing to match or exceed Shaq's worth on the market with Bird rights. Shaq already had his mind made up.

Shaq joined a nice young core who made the playoffs though, it wasn't like he was joining a **** team. The thing he lucked into was the Vlade for Kobe trade, Kobe ended up being one of the goats which helped Shaq get some rings.

wrong... the magic low balled him... I don't know how old you are so I don't know if you knew what happened but Orlando didn't give him the most they could and then when Miami turned around and gave Mourning way more money the Orlando ownership got cheap thinking there was no way he would leave

But again... that is all irrelevant... Scoots post said that he took less ... he didn't and he didn't go to a better team... one can argue a better franchise but the Magic had just been to the finals so even that is inaccurate.

Scoots
08-16-2017, 11:59 AM
LeBron's move was new, and unique. I think it's a complete stand alone.

But, he joined 2 other players, knowing (or at least we know now) that he would still have to be the alpha, and the team would win or lose with how he played. Of course after the fact we know Wade hit decline after their first year together fast, and their role players were awful players. LeBron still needed to be the best player in the game, series, and world, for his team to win, something Durant doesn't need to do, at all. He doesn't even need to be there in fact, we know that.

The similarity is for sure that they both made a tough decision, that affected them very negatively publically, and they made that decision to put themselves in the best position to win chips. Durant just happened to hit the market when 2 things happened:

an all time team was existing
that all time team had max cap room due to a spike in the cap

We don't know what James would have done in the same position, but we don't need to. For anyone that considers what James did weak, they must consider what Durant did a different word all together, because it's the least competitive thing a person could do.

I agree what KD did was a whole new level ... but I'm not going to call it noncompetitive since that's not his job to maintain the competitiveness of the NBA, it's his job to win.

So, yes, KD's never-going-to-happen-again move sort of broke the NBA, and that happened because of KD's decision to go from a good team to an all-time-great team. From the outside, from the perspective of parity, it was a weak weak weak move.

Vinylman
08-16-2017, 12:01 PM
Or that they've seen how much the previous generation crows about their rings and craps on the players who didn't get one. Shaq changed teams to win a ring. KG changed teams to win a ring And they were hardly the first nor even the only examples of their generation. Makes me think competitiveness isn't really all that different now than ever.


You replied to a comment of mine about Lopez, I replied, still about Lopez, and you then started down your KD spiral. But I'm the one changing the subject? And as far as I know I didn't say anything factually incorrect.

no worries dude... I am not the guy who tried to equivalize shaq and KG going to different teams to a guy (lets use your example) Brook Lopez for the MLE...

that is complete garbage

I just ordered my new dubs jersey with the Vagisil patch... can't wait to see what it looks like in person

Vinylman
08-16-2017, 12:07 PM
that cap explosion....ugh. Came at the worst possible time, for anyone that isn't a GS fan.

he would have pussed out even without the cap explosion... its in his DNA

Scoots
08-16-2017, 12:19 PM
no worries dude... I am not the guy who tried to equivalize shaq and KG going to different teams to a guy (lets use your example) Brook Lopez for the MLE...

that is complete garbage

I just ordered my new dubs jersey with the Vagisil patch... can't wait to see what it looks like in person

I didn't "equivalize" (whatever that means) Shaq and KG to Lopez.

Hawkeye15
08-16-2017, 12:24 PM
he would have pussed out even without the cap explosion... its in his DNA

well he wouldn't be on GS at the very least