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View Full Version : What if Kobe had one last playoff run in him?



Chronz
07-24-2017, 01:12 PM
Say he were lucky enough to hold off the Achilles injury for another year, what are the odds that Kobe pulls off a miracle and upsets the Spurs?

The Lakers were an injured mess outside of Kobe that year so I understand how dumb this question may seem but they eventually righted the ship and the Lakers closed the year on a like a 28-12 run or something. Both Kobe and the Lakers were hitting their stride (Kobe averaged 29-7-6 to close the year) after having ditched D'Antoni's offense.

If they get past the Spurs, could they have outlasted the Dubs/Grizzlies to face Miami in the Finals the way many predicted before the season?

MarvinFinley
07-24-2017, 01:46 PM
Kobe was not a leader.

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2017, 01:58 PM
Kobe was not a leader.

:punish:

Hangin n Wangin
07-24-2017, 02:01 PM
Don't know about all that, but he did look great before rupturing his achilles. After the injury, he never looked the same again. So we will never know.

MarvinFinley
07-24-2017, 02:13 PM
The Lakers STACK the Roster but lose Phil Jackson then lose 30 more games.

Bostonjorge
07-24-2017, 03:18 PM
Kobe owned Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs. Only time Kobe lost to them was when he had Shaq early in his career.

Also without Shaq Kobe is undefeated against Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs.

jaydubb
07-24-2017, 06:09 PM
https://youtu.be/LY8rUhlC0xY

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

LOb0
07-24-2017, 07:49 PM
They never righted the ship. It was one of the most egregious refereeing jobs in NBA history. The last couple months of the season the Lakers had to fight to get to the playoffs. It was completely absurd how the refs suddenly started giving the Lakers every call and every advantage to get into the playoffs. It was very clear the NBA wanted them in the POs.

It kind of went under the radar but it was scandal worthy stuff.

SportsFanatic10
07-24-2017, 08:42 PM
I wonder if they managed to make it to the finals, would people hold another finals loss for him against him the way they hold Lebron's finals record against LBJ. As if making the finals and losing is worse then a first round exit lol.

Scoots
07-24-2017, 08:53 PM
It was right that Kobe's career effectively ended against the Warriors. There is no point in imagining he didn't get hurt, the torch was passed.

still1ballin
07-24-2017, 09:12 PM
Lol

kdspurman
07-24-2017, 09:31 PM
Kobe owned Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs. Only time Kobe lost to them was when he had Shaq early in his career.

Also without Shaq Kobe is undefeated against Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs.

And Pop is undefeated against a Mike Brown lead team, I don't see what previous teams have to do with completely different teams.

lakerfan85
07-24-2017, 10:14 PM
And Pop is undefeated against a Mike Brown lead team, I don't see what previous teams have to do with completely different teams.

Dantoni?

kdspurman
07-24-2017, 10:35 PM
Dantoni?

I believe against both, but wasn't Brown the coach in the 2013 season where Kobe got hurt?

Sssmush
07-24-2017, 10:46 PM
Say he were lucky enough to hold off the Achilles injury for another year, what are the odds that Kobe pulls off a miracle and upsets the Spurs?

The Lakers were an injured mess outside of Kobe that year so I understand how dumb this question may seem but they eventually righted the ship and the Lakers closed the year on a like a 28-12 run or something. Both Kobe and the Lakers were hitting their stride (Kobe averaged 29-7-6 to close the year) after having ditched D'Antoni's offense.

If they get past the Spurs, could they have outlasted the Dubs/Grizzlies to face Miami in the Finals the way many predicted before the season?

Honestly... if you roll things back all the way to before D'Antoni, if Kobe would've allowed himself to play under Mike Brown and accept Mike Brown's schemes and substitutions and defenses etc then a Spurs defeating playoff run could've been a possibility.

Of course in hindsight the presence of Nash sucked the confidence and will to win out of that team and made dumbass Dwight Howard even worse.

Now if we rolled back even one level further and trade Bynum for a salty defensive power forward and trade those Nash picks for a decent to good starting PG then yeah definitely we are talking. Kobe was actually at a point where he was kind of unstoppable in the league and the only question was when he would face Lebron. The league wanted it too.

The Mike Brown firing and the Kobe laser stare and all that was gross... then bringing in an injured D'Antoni after inflaming Phil Jackson's ego, precipitating a bitter two year anti-Jim and Mitch propaganda campaign in the media which turned the Lakers into a near laughingstock, followed by Kobe refusing to play for or be coached by D'Antoni and then sealed in a vault by Jeannie's giving Kobe a new $50m contract

Sssmush
07-24-2017, 10:49 PM
Honestly... if you roll things back all the way to before D'Antoni, if Kobe would've allowed himself to play under Mike Brown and accept Mike Brown's schemes and substitutions and defenses etc then a Spurs defeating playoff run could've been a possibility.

Of course in hindsight the presence of Nash sucked the confidence and will to win out of that team and made dumbass Dwight Howard even worse.

Now if we rolled back even one level further and trade Bynum for a salty defensive power forward and trade those Nash picks for a decent to good starting PG then yeah definitely we are talking. Kobe was actually at a point where he was kind of unstoppable in the league and the only question was when he would face Lebron. The league wanted it too.

The Mike Brown firing and the Kobe laser stare and all that was gross... then bringing in an injured D'Antoni after inflaming Phil Jackson's ego, precipitating a bitter two year anti-Jim and Mitch propaganda campaign in the media which turned the Lakers into a near laughingstock, followed by Kobe refusing to play for or be coached by D'Antoni and then sealed in a vault by Jeannie's giving Kobe a new $50m contract

I mean jeeezus the Lakers could've had Igoudala for Bynum. How gross is that?

Imagine:

Kobe
Igoudala
Pau
Artest
[decent NBA point guard traded for two 1sts]


But yeah to answer your question, the way that season played out... if Kobe didn't get injured... then yeah a hot playoff run was possible. Also factoring in love from the referees and the tendency of the Spurs to play like dog**** in a playoff series sometimes. Lakers had a puncher's chance

JordansBulls
07-24-2017, 11:20 PM
Which year was this?

lakerfan85
07-25-2017, 12:34 AM
I believe against both, but wasn't Brown the coach in the 2013 season where Kobe got hurt?

Brown was fired after the first 5 games..

Balltime
07-25-2017, 01:33 AM
Brown was fired after the first 5 games..

After they tried running the Princeton offense, that was a disaster.

LaVar Ball
07-25-2017, 03:06 AM
I believe against both, but wasn't Brown the coach in the 2013 season where Kobe got hurt?

It was Mike D'Antoni

Regular season:

Games 1-5: Mike Brown
Games 6-10: Bernie Bickerstaff
Games 11-82: Mike D'Antoni

kdspurman
07-25-2017, 10:58 AM
Brown was fired after the first 5 games..

Ah, that's right. I don't know how I could forget that.

In that case (to my original reply) Pop vs D'Antoni is even more lopsided.p

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2017, 06:05 PM
I mean, in 2010/11 Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and Artest were still in their primes (I usually call the prime 26-32), though some were on the tail end. Jackson was still running the show. Bynum was reaching his potential. Aside from a very talented core, they had solid role players like Fisher (granted, past his prime), Steve Blake, and Matt Barnes, and had some smart vets at the end of bench like Theo ad Joe Smith.

If Kobe weren't able to win with that, or get past that MAvs team... I don't think it is likely he would have been able to perform any better with any other team he had afterwards. Maybe is Nah were healthy, and Dwight was willing to run the pick-and-roll with him... but even had NAsh been healthy that year, I'm not convinced he would have been playing at a terribly high level. That car rode like mint right up until the 200,000 mark, but then it just fell apart.

LaVar Ball
07-26-2017, 06:21 PM
I mean, in 2010/11 Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and Artest were still in their primes (I usually call the prime 26-32), though some were on the tail end. Jackson was still running the show. Bynum was reaching his potential. Aside from a very talented core, they had solid role players like Fisher (granted, past his prime), Steve Blake, and Matt Barnes, and had some smart vets at the end of bench like Theo ad Joe Smith.

If Kobe weren't able to win with that, or get past that MAvs team... I don't think it is likely he would have been able to perform any better with any other team he had afterwards. Maybe is Nah were healthy, and Dwight was willing to run the pick-and-roll with him... but even had NAsh been healthy that year, I'm not convinced he would have been playing at a terribly high level. That car rode like mint right up until the 200,000 mark, but then it just fell apart.

2010-2011 was when Kobe's injuries started piling when the 'bone-on-bone' on his knee and not practicing with teammate became an issue. Artest lost a significant step defensively, Bynum's role became bigger with the Lakers (Phil wanted to trade him for Melo but Jim Buss vetoed that) and as a result Pau's role was diminishing.

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2017, 07:24 PM
2010-2011 was when Kobe's injuries started piling when the 'bone-on-bone' on his knee and not practicing with teammate became an issue. Artest lost a significant step defensively, Bynum's role became bigger with the Lakers (Phil wanted to trade him for Melo but Jim Buss vetoed that) and as a result Pau's role was diminishing.

I wouldn't argue with any of that. But if he were going to win, that would have been his best chance, and if he didn't manage it with those guys, I'm not sure any roster he had afterwards would have even come close.

I mean...the rosters that followed that were worse than the team he lost to Phoenix with, and that was when he was playing the best ball of his career and had Jackson whipping the role players into shape.


But injuries, or nagging knees aside.. Kobe played all 82 games that year, and played every game of the playoffs. So he was healthy.

The following year was the lock-out shortened seasons, and Kobe only missed a few games, and played better that year than the year before (in the playoffs at least). So... I feel like he had two solid shots at winning after his last title.

Sure... if you turned back time and gave the Lakers 27-year-old Kobe... maybe he pulls it off, but that isn't quite the question. Those two playoff runs were runs. They got out of the first round, Kobe played every game, and was healthy. The year after, they were swept by the Spurs. With Kobe, would they have beat the Spurs? I don't think so. They were the eventual champs. You add Kobe to that series, they put up a fight. But that roster was beat. That team wasn't any better than the team the two years prior, which lost to teams who were not as good as the Spurs that year (the Mavs and Thunder). So I'm not sure how that Lakers squad would have been able to handle the Spurs, even with Kobe.

The only advantage they'd have is the officiating. Leonard was shutting down (or slowing down) a prime LeBron. I'm not sure a 33-year-old Kobe would have proved more challenging, especially with the Lakers being outplayed at PG.

I don't see Kobe having a healthy playoffs that year making a significant difference.

JWorthy42
07-26-2017, 07:25 PM
That team just never clicked due to injuries - not just to Kobe, but also to Dwight, Nash and Pau. During that 1st Round series against the Spurs, Nash played only Game 1 if I believe correctly and neither Kobe nor Pau played in the series.

The reason the Lakers went on that end of the season run was because Kobe simply balled out and forced them into the playoffs. He gave it all, and that lead to his injury.

If all the core players on that team remained healthy, then yeah maybe we had a shot at the Finals. However its a very unlikely scenario.

LaVar Ball
07-26-2017, 07:46 PM
I wouldn't argue with any of that. But if he were going to win, that would have been his best chance, and if he didn't manage it with those guys, I'm not sure any roster he had afterwards would have even come close.

I mean...the rosters that followed that were worse than the team he lost to Phoenix with, and that was when he was playing the best ball of his career and had Jackson whipping the role players into shape.


But injuries, or nagging knees aside.. Kobe played all 82 games that year, and played every game of the playoffs. So he was healthy.

The following year was the lock-out shortened seasons, and Kobe only missed a few games, and played better that year than the year before (in the playoffs at least). So... I feel like he had two solid shots at winning after his last title.

Sure... if you turned back time and gave the Lakers 27-year-old Kobe... maybe he pulls it off, but that isn't quite the question. Those two playoff runs were runs. They got out of the first round, Kobe played every game, and was healthy. The year after, they were swept by the Spurs. With Kobe, would they have beat the Spurs? I don't think so. They were the eventual champs. You add Kobe to that series, they put up a fight. But that roster was beat. That team wasn't any better than the team the two years prior, which lost to teams who were not as good as the Spurs that year (the Mavs and Thunder). So I'm not sure how that Lakers squad would have been able to handle the Spurs, even with Kobe.

The only advantage they'd have is the officiating. Leonard was shutting down (or slowing down) a prime LeBron. I'm not sure a 33-year-old Kobe would have proved more challenging, especially with the Lakers being outplayed at PG.

I don't see Kobe having a healthy playoffs that year making a significant difference.
I think it's because he didn't practice with teammates and reserved his body and got plenty of rest of why he was able to play all 82. If you look at his number, his scoring average went down from the previous seasons:

28.3 - 2008
26.8 - 2009
27.0 - 2010
25.3 - 2011

Also add to the fact that Phil reportedly was diagnosed with prostate cancer in the middle of the 2010-11 season.

Sssmush
07-26-2017, 08:05 PM
After they tried running the Princeton offense, that was a disaster.

Kobe just wouldnt be coached by that guy.

Kobe burned through Mike Brown, then Dantoni, and left Byron a soulless smouldering ruin after all the compromises he had to make probably just to get through two seasons somehow.

Then Kobe blazes out in a totemistic bonfire of fame and futility with Clarkson and Russell getting him the ball for 60 ponts in his spectulame farewell game, and then we clean slate bring in Walton and now we're *wheeeeeeeeee* the worst team in the league. With a newly hired Magic Johnson venting his frustration and promising big things next year.

*wheeeeeeeeeeeee*

LaVar Ball
07-26-2017, 08:08 PM
Kobe just wouldnt be coached by that guy.

Kobe burned through Mike Brown, then Dantoni, and left Byron a soulless smouldering ruin after all the compromises he had to make probably just to get through two seasons somehow.

Then Kobe blazes out in a totemistic bonfire of fame and futility with Clarkson and Russell getting him the ball for 60 ponts in his spectulame farewell game, and then we clean slate bring in Walton and now we're *wheeeeeeeeee* the worst team in the league. With a newly hired Magic Johnson venting his frustration and promising big things next year.

*wheeeeeeeeeeeee*

You sound incoherent Mr. Smush Parker. Plz just stop. I don't know what the hell I just read.

jphysics
07-26-2017, 08:18 PM
All of this brings up so many painful memories of Jim Buss ruining our team.

So many missed opportunities and bad risks because he was running the show. 7 years of pain.

Lets stop talking about it. Things are finally looking up again, but its still too recent. Still hurts...

lakers4sho
07-26-2017, 08:52 PM
Jim Buss should've swallowed his ego and just traded Bynum and Odom for Paul, that would've gotten the thumbs up. Instead they went full potato and we all know what happened afterwards.

Sssmush
07-27-2017, 03:37 AM
All of this brings up so many painful memories of Jim Buss ruining our team.

So many missed opportunities and bad risks because he was running the show. 7 years of pain.

Lets stop talking about it. Things are finally looking up again, but its still too recent. Still hurts...

Everyone knows it was Jeannie who signed Kobe to that contract.

However I would add to the failure to acquire CP3 another gigantic mistake. The Lakers could EASILY gave gotten Pau without throwing in the rights to Marc Gasol. So then even to this day the Lakers would have the tandem duo of Gasol brothers in contention for titles every year, Kobe or no Kobe.

But yeah let's not get too carried away with second guessing. Jim Buss has TWO rings in the last ten years as a president of basketball operations. Which is better than Ballmer, the OKC guy, the Cavs, Portland, Toronto and any number of supposedly awesome executives. And uh wake me up when Magic reaches the playoffs. For all we know he might tap out before they even get a sniff. Of the PLAYOFFS

JasonJohnHorn
07-27-2017, 09:04 AM
I think it's because he didn't practice with teammates and reserved his body and got plenty of rest of why he was able to play all 82. If you look at his number, his scoring average went down from the previous seasons:

28.3 - 2008
26.8 - 2009
27.0 - 2010
25.3 - 2011

Also add to the fact that Phil reportedly was diagnosed with prostate cancer in the middle of the 2010-11 season.

Still a better team than what he had going against the Spurs, and the Spursès roster that year was better than the teams he lost too with better pieces around him. I get that he wasn't 100%, but even when healthy, his numbers were coming down. Even without knee injuries, I don't expect his level of play would have been any higher than about what it was.

eDush
08-02-2017, 12:08 AM
All of this brings up so many painful memories of Jim Buss ruining our team.

So many missed opportunities and bad risks because he was running the show. 7 years of pain.

Lets stop talking about it. Things are finally looking up again, but its still too recent. Still hurts...

Everyone knows it was Jeannie who signed Kobe to that contract.

However I would add to the failure to acquire CP3 another gigantic mistake. The Lakers could EASILY gave gotten Pau without throwing in the rights to Marc Gasol. So then even to this day the Lakers would have the tandem duo of Gasol brothers in contention for titles every year, Kobe or no Kobe.

But yeah let's not get too carried away with second guessing. Jim Buss has TWO rings in the last ten years as a president of basketball operations. Which is better than Ballmer, the OKC guy, the Cavs, Portland, Toronto and any number of supposedly awesome executives. And uh wake me up when Magic reaches the playoffs. For all we know he might tap out before they even get a sniff. Of the PLAYOFFSNot everyone as she didn't have authority to sign players at the time. It was Mitch who signed him for helping them win so many championships :nod:

PurpleLynch
08-02-2017, 05:26 AM
They never righted the ship. It was one of the most egregious refereeing jobs in NBA history. The last couple months of the season the Lakers had to fight to get to the playoffs. It was completely absurd how the refs suddenly started giving the Lakers every call and every advantage to get into the playoffs. It was very clear the NBA wanted them in the POs.

It kind of went under the radar but it was scandal worthy stuff.

What? I bet you don't even watch Lakers games, it would really strange from a Celtics fan.

Futhermore, any proof of what are you saying, since it was scandal worthy stuff?

PurpleLynch
08-02-2017, 05:28 AM
Anyway, I don't think we get past the Spurs. Kobe was doing good, but that Lakers team was bound to fail in the PO.

PurpleLynch
08-02-2017, 05:40 AM
Everyone knows it was Jeannie who signed Kobe to that contract.

However I would add to the failure to acquire CP3 another gigantic mistake. The Lakers could EASILY gave gotten Pau without throwing in the rights to Marc Gasol. So then even to this day the Lakers would have the tandem duo of Gasol brothers in contention for titles every year, Kobe or no Kobe.

But yeah let's not get too carried away with second guessing. Jim Buss has TWO rings in the last ten years as a president of basketball operations. Which is better than Ballmer, the OKC guy, the Cavs, Portland, Toronto and any number of supposedly awesome executives. And uh wake me up when Magic reaches the playoffs. For all we know he might tap out before they even get a sniff. Of the PLAYOFFS

Lol, so you got destroyed in our forum for your theories on Jim Buss and now you try to bring it here in the general forum.

First, if Jim Buss was at the helm of the Lakers(you even have the courage to give him due for our last two titles...), why was Jeannie the culprit of Kobe's contract? This doesn't work, it's illogical.

Second, we tried to get CP3, Stern just had the rights to do what he did. Nothing more. What are you, a GM? How do you know we could "EASILY" got Pau without throwing Marc rights?

So 2009 and 2010 are Jim Buss's titles? Really? I thought Jerry didn't go to hospital until 2012. And he was the president till that date. Plus, the team was managed by Jackson,Kupchak and West in their respective roles. Just stop with this insanity.

You are also a liar and hypocrite, you change your ****in' ideas everyday according to your own agenda or need to get attention.

lakers squad
08-03-2017, 03:10 PM
Kobe was not a leader.

OMG...Did I really just read this! Dude should be band for this comment...If he was serious with this comment, this tot show"s how aliterate he is when it come's to the game of basketball!

lakers squad
08-03-2017, 03:23 PM
Everyone knows it was Jeannie who signed Kobe to that contract.

However I would add to the failure to acquire CP3 another gigantic mistake. The Lakers could EASILY gave gotten Pau without throwing in the rights to Marc Gasol. So then even to this day the Lakers would have the tandem duo of Gasol brothers in contention for titles every year, Kobe or no Kobe.

But yeah let's not get too carried away with second guessing. Jim Buss has TWO rings in the last ten years as a president of basketball operations. Which is better than Ballmer, the OKC guy, the Cavs, Portland, Toronto and any number of supposedly awesome executives. And uh wake me up when Magic reaches the playoffs. For all we know he might tap out before they even get a sniff. Of the PLAYOFFS

I don't agree with your post in general...Jr won those two titles off what buss sr. had built imo! Magic will do great leading the Lakers forward. He has already improved the lakers in his short time at the helm. But when you bring up the part about Mark Gasol, being included in that trade, I must admit I tot agree! I felt at the time we made that trade that it was a mistake to included him and we could have gotten it done without having too, time has proving this assumption correct!

jphysics
08-03-2017, 05:41 PM
We got such a good deal for Pau, I am hesitant to complain too much.

I guess it's possible we could have kept Marc (2007 48th pick) and let them keep their 2010 2nd round pick (Devin Ebanks).

But its hard to complain too much. At the time Marc was low-probability lottery ticket.

Chronz
08-04-2017, 04:04 PM
Still a better team than what he had going against the Spurs, and the Spursès roster that year was better than the teams he lost too with better pieces around him. I get that he wasn't 100%, but even when healthy, his numbers were coming down. Even without knee injuries, I don't expect his level of play would have been any higher than about what it was.

He was on quite a stretch to close the year tho, and yeah the Spurs were better but what of matchups? Dont know how they fared over those years but the twin towers set up gave them problems in the past IIRC. Young Kawhi vs Kobe would've been a sight to see tho and definitely a game changing addition.

LA4life24/8
08-04-2017, 07:42 PM
He was on quite a stretch to close the year tho, and yeah the Spurs were better but what of matchups? Dont know how they fared over those years but the twin towers set up gave them problems in the past IIRC. Young Kawhi vs Kobe would've been a sight to see tho and definitely a game changing addition.

Agreed. Kobe literally willed them to the playoffs and it cost him dearly. He was playing like 44 mins a night. He was insane. That team woulda been so different had cp3 trade not got vetoed.

Bostonjorge
08-05-2017, 05:19 PM
I wonder if they managed to make it to the finals, would people hold another finals loss for him against him the way they hold Lebron's finals record against LBJ. As if making the finals and losing is worse then a first round exit lol.

Kobe only lost to a back to back league MVP Steve Nash and his super running all star team.

What was the best first round team James beat in his first round matchups? Best player he beat in the first round? Losing to those teams hurts your legacy bad.

Kobe took down The Dream, Durant, Pippen, Westbrook, Webber, Barkley, Paul, Rasheed, Rider, Garnnet, Ming, Iverson, Melo, Deron Williams, Harden. In the fist round. When this is what you play in the first, and you only lost to the league MVP is not bad but it adds to your legacy.

Isiah Rider is as good as the #4-5 on James list.

cmellofan15
08-05-2017, 08:48 PM
Kobe only lost to a back to back league MVP Steve Nash and his super running all star team.

What was the best first round team James beat in his first round matchups? Best player he beat in the first round? Losing to those teams hurts your legacy bad.

Kobe took down The Dream, Durant, Pippen, Westbrook, Webber, Barkley, Paul, Rasheed, Rider, Garnnet, Ming, Iverson, Melo, Deron Williams, Harden. In the fist round. When this is what you play in the first, and you only lost to the league MVP is not bad but it adds to your legacy.

Isiah Rider is as good as the #4-5 on James list.

LMAO this is the definition of pathetic

FlashBolt
08-05-2017, 11:00 PM
LMAO this is the definition of pathetic

Yeah.. and look at who Kobe beat in the Finals.. KG was the best player he ever played in the Finals. Amazing!

Chronz
08-05-2017, 11:56 PM
Yeah.. and look at who Kobe beat in the Finals.. KG was the best player he ever played in the Finals. Amazing!

Its a team game tho.