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View Full Version : Who says no to a Kyrie-Lillard swap?



Chronz
07-24-2017, 12:31 PM
Just got done hearing Lillards thoughts on the whole Kyrie situation here;

https://streamable.com/v3csf

He talks about how he would love to be making the Finals every year and being set up for easy shots and it got me thinking about what Kyrie allegedly said about being envious of Wall/Lillard. Well if hes so envious of them, why not just swap places with one of them, why not list Portland as a possible destination?

Who says no to the swap, POR/CLE or Kyrie/Lillard?


How different are the Cavs with this move, better, worse, or a lateral move?

ewing
07-24-2017, 12:33 PM
Portland says no. Lillard has shown that he can be the main ball handler and people will get touches. Both great scorers KI ability to move the ball is a question mark

R. Johnson#3
07-24-2017, 12:54 PM
I can't imagine Lillard ever leaving Portland.

BGeer091
07-24-2017, 01:01 PM
I like Lillard more. I don't think Portland would do this deal either

Scoots
07-24-2017, 01:02 PM
Lillard over Kyrie for me. And the Cavs would JUMP at that deal.

hugepatsfan
07-24-2017, 01:08 PM
Lillard has 4 guaranteed years left on his deal. Kyrie has 2 and then an opt out. For that alone the Blazers would turn it down and CLE would jump at the deal.

As players I think they're pretty comparable. I don't think anyone really makes out on the court either way. Their career per 36 numbers are nearly identical. Irving shoots a bit better from the floor and from 3 but he's played with Lebron. Granted, Irving pre-Lebron still had slightly better percentages than Lillard does so you can't entirely chalk it up to that.

MarvinFinley
07-24-2017, 01:14 PM
I think Lillard would go from basically a player that averages 26 ppg and has the ball in his hands 70% of the time. To scoring about 21 ppg on stationary iso's on the perimeter with very little ball movement and player movement, while having the ball maybe 30% of the time. His assists numbers would fall a lot too. Also probably his perceived value in the NBA.

Rivera
07-24-2017, 04:26 PM
Lillard has 4 guaranteed years left on his deal. Kyrie has 2 and then an opt out. For that alone the Blazers would turn it down and CLE would jump at the deal.





This because of this reason. If Portland got a guarantee from Kyrie, that he would be staying past his contract, then I dont see a reason for either team to say no

SportsFanatic10
07-24-2017, 08:45 PM
I actually like Lillard a tad more but it is very close. Would pretty much be a lateral move in my eyes. If Lillard is fine playing with Lebron then it's a great move for the Cavs since apparently Irving isn't and that makes a huge difference. He'd probably like having a better shot at being an allstar every year in the East as well. But it doesn't really move the needle in their favor against GS much if at all and I don't see why the Blazers would do it.

FlashBolt
07-24-2017, 08:47 PM
I think Kyrie is better than Lillard.

Hustla23
07-24-2017, 09:06 PM
Lillard is more efficient while being the #1 option on his team while Kyrie gets to play alongside Lebron.

Why on earth would Portland do the deal?

Balltime
07-24-2017, 09:47 PM
I rather have Kyrie, but no need for Portland to entertain Lilard, he should be an untouchable unless it's a fleece trade.

FlashBolt
07-24-2017, 11:17 PM
Even if you want to call them equal, which they aren't...Lillard is overall better in several categories especially leadership.....the clincher for Portland is fans love Damian, they'd never remotely come close to liking Irving as much

Lillard's contract is more costly and Lillard is not that much better in some of the categories. Leadership? Idk, I feel Lillard is mentally fit but he hasn't really had to show any leadership abilities. Rebounding/assists? They're both just average. Defense, they both suck. Offensively, Kyrie is better than Lillard.

SiteWolf
07-24-2017, 11:17 PM
Even if you want to call them equal, which they aren't...Lillard is overall better in several categories especially leadership.....the clincher for Portland is fans love Damian, they'd never remotely come close to liking Irving as much

JordansBulls
07-24-2017, 11:19 PM
Probably Portland because Damian isn't asking out.

AllBall
07-25-2017, 12:20 PM
Portland, it's fanbase and Lillard would say no.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-25-2017, 12:20 PM
I prefer Lillard.

valade16
07-25-2017, 12:59 PM
As a Blazer fan give me Lillard. It's not like Kyrie is much better on defense.

Vee-Rex
07-25-2017, 01:01 PM
Lillard is better for Portland.

These two guys are basicially statistically identical to each other. I think Kyrie's style of scoring makes him a bit harder to stop in the playoffs, but Lillard is the better leader and can keep his team slugging it out. Portland easily says no to this deal.

FlashBolt
07-25-2017, 01:23 PM
For the price of Lillard compared to Kyrie, it doesn't justify any huge difference in ability. Lillard's leadership is being overrated here. They have relatively low expectations so it's not as if his leadership has been brought into question, yet. I'd take Kyrie as I think he's a better value and more unstoppable scorer as a PG but in terms of who the better player is, I think it's negligible. Both are 2nd tier PG's compared to Curry, RWB, Harden, and CP3.

krazylegz
07-25-2017, 02:16 PM
neil oshey prefers cj mcollum as the focal point over lillard....so this wouldnt be out of the question

WestCoastSportz
07-25-2017, 02:30 PM
I would actually prefer Kyrie Irving. They both have a very similar game. Both are score first point guards and passing is a distant second option for them. Irving was drafted in 2011 and Lillard was drafted the following year in 2012, but Lillard is two years older. Lillard's impact is what it is and it hasn't gotten them far into the playoffs. I don't think a McCollum and Lillard backcourt works, but I also don't think an Irving and McCollum would work either because McCollum is a shooting guard that does little of anything else. He's undersized for his position. He's not a good rebounder or defender and he's not a good passer. He's a slightly better version of a GS Monta Ellis. There was a game where Lillard and McCollum both took 27 shots each (54 combined). Thats not going to cut it.

tredigs
07-25-2017, 05:43 PM
Kyrie has 2 years on his contract, lillard 4. And Lillard is extreeeemely popular in Portland. The Blazers don't even take that call. Come on.

nastynice
07-25-2017, 06:05 PM
Forget the contract, that swap just makes no sense for Portland. To me Lillard is better for sure, not by a huge amount, but def better.

tredigs
07-25-2017, 07:40 PM
Forget the contract, that swap just makes no sense for Portland. To me Lillard is better for sure, not by a huge amount, but def better.

There's that too. Not really sure why Chronz thinks this makes any sense?

mrblisterdundee
07-25-2017, 07:58 PM
Lillard has 4 guaranteed years left on his deal. Kyrie has 2 and then an opt out. For that alone the Blazers would turn it down and CLE would jump at the deal.

Yep; It would be a lateral move for a guy who sucks just as bad on defense and is less likely to stick around in the long-term.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-26-2017, 11:53 AM
I think Kyrie is the better player personally

TylerSL
07-26-2017, 01:42 PM
The Blazers. lol

WestCoastSportz
07-26-2017, 02:06 PM
But what if it were a package deal

The Blazers get Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love and Iman Shumpert. The Cavaliers get Damien Lillard, CJ McCollum and Noah Vonleh. That could be a trade that works out for both teams, especially for the Cavs if LeBron leaves since they'll have Lillard and McCollum. No question that the Blazers get better as well.

Blazers' Line Up:

PG Kyrie Irving - Shabazz Napier
SG Evan Turner - Iman Shumpert
SF Mo Harkless - Al-Farouq Aminu
PF Kevin Love - Ed Davis - Andrew Nicholson
C Jusuf Nurkic - Meyers Leonard

Cavaliers' Line Up:

PG Damien Lillard - Derrick Rose
SG CJ McCollum - JR Smith - Kyle Korver
SF LeBron James - Richard Jefferson
PF Noah Vonleh - Channing Frye - Jeff Green
C Tristan Thompson - Edy Tavares

AntiG
07-26-2017, 02:43 PM
Unless the Cavs are throwing something extra along with Irving like a 1st rounder, it would be foolish for Portland to do such a trade. Lillard is under control longer and both are on the same level.

As far as the above, McCollum is a better player than Love right now...

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2017, 05:35 PM
The best move the Cavs can make, and the move that they should have made even before the title, is trading Kyrie for Paul.

And they should still purdue that. Kyrie would fit better with 'Antoni, because he will listen to 'Antoni instead of trying to coach the team himself (which Paul will do), and because he seemingly doesn't give a $#!t about defense and can shoot threes.

Paul is better for the Rockets, but Kyrie is better for 'Antoni.


And I feel like Paul would rather be in the east and with the Cavs, so it the Cavs called and pushed this trade, I think Paul would agree.


That trade aside, I don't think the Wizards would trade Wall for Kyrie, but if they would, the Cavs should take that in a heart beat. Even if it means giving up another piece (Love and TT are untouchable in that situation of course unless the Wizards offer something else in return: I'd be ok with Wall/Gortat for Kyrie/TT).

If it is Lillard, which seems it would be a pretty even swap for both teams, the difference for the Cavs, I think, would be negligible at worst, and would, in all likelihood, give them a better leader on the court when James is not there.

4-23. That is the Cavs record without LBJ over the last 3 years. That is not all on Kyrie, because he wasn't even in some of those games himself, and Love was also missing for some of those games. But seriously... a team in the east with Kyrie, Love, and TT 23 of 27 games? That is 3 all-star calibre players playing WORSE than the 76ers. Clearly, Kyrie is not a 'leader'. He's good, but he looks like he's out there trying to get his a lot of the time. Not as bad as Waiters, mind you, but not great. Not a 'teammmate' like Paul. Kyrie is great... no doubt. But... I just don't think he's a leader.

What I'm about to say makes no sense statistically, but I sincerely believe that even though Kyrie has slightly better stats, the Trailblazers would have a significantly worse record next season with Kyrie in place of Lillard, and that the Cavs would certainly be a 60-win team.

I mean... when Kyrie came to the Cavs, as their leader in his rookie season, he only helped the team improve by 2 wins (though in fairness he miss part of the season due to injury). And that was with TT too. There should have been more than a 2-game 'turnaround', even as a rookie. The next year they only improved 3 games. That might be in part on Byron Scott, but I feel like that says something about him as a leader and as a first option.


I think a trade for Lillard, if the Trailblazers would bite, would be good for the Cavs, and good for 'Kyrie', but I don't think it would improve the Blazers, though they may be dumb enough to think it does.

koldjerky
07-26-2017, 05:50 PM
The best move the Cavs can make, and the move that they should have made even before the title, is trading Kyrie for Paul.

And they should still purdue that. Kyrie would fit better with 'Antoni, because he will listen to 'Antoni instead of trying to coach the team himself (which Paul will do), and because he seemingly doesn't give a $#!t about defense and can shoot threes.

Paul is better for the Rockets, but Kyrie is better for 'Antoni.


And I feel like Paul would rather be in the east and with the Cavs, so it the Cavs called and pushed this trade, I think Paul would agree.


That trade aside, I don't think the Wizards would trade Wall for Kyrie, but if they would, the Cavs should take that in a heart beat. Even if it means giving up another piece (Love and TT are untouchable in that situation of course unless the Wizards offer something else in return: I'd be ok with Wall/Gortat for Kyrie/TT).

If it is Lillard, which seems it would be a pretty even swap for both teams, the difference for the Cavs, I think, would be negligible at worst, and would, in all likelihood, give them a better leader on the court when James is not there.

4-23. That is the Cavs record without LBJ over the last 3 years. That is not all on Kyrie, because he wasn't even in some of those games himself, and Love was also missing for some of those games. But seriously... a team in the east with Kyrie, Love, and TT 23 of 27 games? That is 3 all-star calibre players playing WORSE than the 76ers. Clearly, Kyrie is not a 'leader'. He's good, but he looks like he's out there trying to get his a lot of the time. Not as bad as Waiters, mind you, but not great. Not a 'teammmate' like Paul. Kyrie is great... no doubt. But... I just don't think he's a leader.

What I'm about to say makes no sense statistically, but I sincerely believe that even though Kyrie has slightly better stats, the Trailblazers would have a significantly worse record next season with Kyrie in place of Lillard, and that the Cavs would certainly be a 60-win team.

I mean... when Kyrie came to the Cavs, as their leader in his rookie season, he only helped the team improve by 2 wins (though in fairness he miss part of the season due to injury). And that was with TT too. There should have been more than a 2-game 'turnaround', even as a rookie. The next year they only improved 3 games. That might be in part on Byron Scott, but I feel like that says something about him as a leader and as a first option.


I think a trade for Lillard, if the Trailblazers would bite, would be good for the Cavs, and good for 'Kyrie', but I don't think it would improve the Blazers, though they may be dumb enough to think it does.

I think the Cavs would be too chicken.


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WestCoastSportz
07-26-2017, 06:54 PM
As far as the above, McCollum is a better player than Love right now...

I'm not sure about that. What Love needs is a system and a real head coach. There was a time when Love was a 26 points and 13 rebounds a game player. Even in a year like the one that just finished, he went under the radar and averaged 19 points and 11 rebounds. Kevin Love gives them a stretch 4, but he's also effective with his back to the basket. He's also a pretty darn good rebounder. His skills were going to waste in Cleveland. Only 12 players this season averaged double digit rebounds. Thats something you can't overlook and aside from guys like Karl Anthony-Towns, Demarcus Cousins and Anthony Davis, most of them hover around the 13 points a game range. Those are some pretty good players there. McCollum doesn't offer anything other than scoring and he does it by taking a high volume of shots.

mavwar53
07-26-2017, 09:46 PM
I'd take Lillard for the simple fact that the Cavs were not good unless LeBron was on the floor pretty much the entire season. I think it is a very close on the value of the 2 to Portland but there is very little reason to chance this kid of trade for what seems like very little of an upgrade if at all.

Of course Cavs would do it, they need to get something of value and if they could get a 1 for 1 basically all star for all star value for an unhappy player they would jump on it quick.

ewing
07-26-2017, 11:57 PM
I'm not sure about that. What Love needs is a system and a real head coach. There was a time when Love was a 26 points and 13 rebounds a game player. Even in a year like the one that just finished, he went under the radar and averaged 19 points and 11 rebounds. Kevin Love gives them a stretch 4, but he's also effective with his back to the basket. He's also a pretty darn good rebounder. His skills were going to waste in Cleveland. Only 12 players this season averaged double digit rebounds. Thats something you can't overlook and aside from guys like Karl Anthony-Towns, Demarcus Cousins and Anthony Davis, most of them hover around the 13 points a game range. Those are some pretty good players there. McCollum doesn't offer anything other than scoring and he does it by taking a high volume of shots.

He is also an elite passer from the 4. He went from overrated by a lot people to really really underrated in general


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Kyben36
07-27-2017, 12:13 AM
trades like this don't happen. as Portland. you stick with your guym