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Rivera
07-20-2017, 11:26 AM
Im stealing this topic from Broussard, thought it would bring good discussion

Whats Better for Lebrons Legacy?

Going to the next 3 straight finals, and losing (that would be 11 straight finals with a 3-9 record)?

Or going to the west and going to the conference finals never making the nba finals?

Htownballa1622
07-20-2017, 11:47 AM
According to (dumb) fans, he'd be better losing before even getting to finals than losing in finals.

He could always go to Houston next year and team up with a few of his buddies :D

BoSox47
07-20-2017, 11:49 AM
Im stealing this topic from Broussard, thought it would bring good discussion

Whats Better for Lebrons Legacy?

Going to the next 3 straight finals, and losing (that would be 11 straight finals with a 3-9 record)?

Or going to the west and going to the conference finals never making the nba finals?

He needs to go build a new superteam. His days winning the East in Cleveland are numbered. If he stays in Cleveland I dont think he makes it to 3 straight finals. 2017/2018 will be his last season in the finals as a Cleveland Cavalier, regardless if he stays or leaves.

ewing
07-20-2017, 12:36 PM
I know I'm the minority around here I would actually have to watch the games and see how he plays


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SteBO
07-20-2017, 12:51 PM
Making the Finals trumps not making it all day, every day. Suggesting otherwise is the perfect act in the theater of the absurd.....

Dade County
07-20-2017, 01:06 PM
He needs to go build a new superteam. His days winning the East in Cleveland are numbered. If he stays in Cleveland I dont think he makes it to 3 straight finals. 2017/2018 will be his last season in the finals as a Cleveland Cavalier, regardless if he stays or leaves.

Lol

Why not?

KnicksorBust
07-20-2017, 01:09 PM
Im stealing this topic from Broussard, thought it would bring good discussion

Whats Better for Lebrons Legacy?

Going to the next 3 straight finals, and losing (that would be 11 straight finals with a 3-9 record)?

Or going to the west and going to the conference finals never making the nba finals?

It reminds me of Magic Johnson. He doesn't get enough credit for his 5-4 record in the finals. I think that record is more impressive than MJ's 6-0 record.

TrueFan420
07-20-2017, 01:59 PM
Lol

Why not?

He's a Boston fan...

Rivera
07-20-2017, 02:05 PM
It reminds me of Magic Johnson. He doesn't get enough credit for his 5-4 record in the finals. I think that record is more impressive than MJ's 6-0 record.

i hear you! Magic doesnt get enough credit for going to more finals than MJ they only see his record in the finals and put everyone elses accomplishments down if you even dare to compare to MJ


but you know this board and how a lot of fans are. They will say the right thing now (going to 12 nba finals) but when his legacy is over, Lebron i could see being that superstar who continues to get pushed down the all time rankings because of his finals record

GREATNESS ONE
07-20-2017, 05:26 PM
Or going to a Western team and winning a Championship trough the brutal West.

Bostonjorge
07-20-2017, 05:45 PM
Or going to a Western team and winning a Championship trough the brutal West.

Now that's a legacy

5ass
07-21-2017, 12:18 AM
Or going to a Western team and winning a Championship trough the brutal West.

Yeah, he should sign with the Wolves.

Balltime
07-21-2017, 12:45 AM
It reminds me of Magic Johnson. He doesn't get enough credit for his 5-4 record in the finals. I think that record is more impressive than MJ's 6-0 record.

Magic's was more impressive. He stayed with 1 team his whole career. Plus he had an above average winning percentage.

mngopher35
07-21-2017, 01:15 AM
Or going to a Western team and winning a Championship trough the brutal West.

Yeah, he should sign with the Wolves.

Winner

More-Than-Most
07-21-2017, 01:34 AM
It reminds me of Magic Johnson. He doesn't get enough credit for his 5-4 record in the finals. I think that record is more impressive than MJ's 6-0 record.

we pick and use championships whatever fits our agenda... Jordan is goat because 6-0 but Russell is 11-2 and he is not even a top 10 player

More-Than-Most
07-21-2017, 01:35 AM
Winner

this is what i originally made a thread on when the wolves getting butler happened.

Gibby23
07-21-2017, 01:50 AM
we pick and use championships whatever fits our agenda... Jordan is goat because 6-0 but Russell is 11-2 and he is not even a top 10 player

Think you missed the point. Jordan is goat because of a lot more than 6-0 in the finals.

Bostonjorge
07-21-2017, 03:44 AM
West went to the finals 9 times and also has the body of work that makes him a NBA legend and eventually the logo. The 1-8 finals record is why he's always pushed down the rankings. That's the honest truth and has been his biggest blemish in his career.

ewing
07-21-2017, 06:56 AM
does it matter? when he loses its b/c his teammates are trash

PC
07-21-2017, 09:41 AM
If you choose to ignore his Finals record, then it's hard to tout his 7 straight appearances as a major accomplishment in a weak East. Can't have it both ways.

To answer the question, I see very few, if any, scenarios where LeBron can tarnish his legacy, and these are not them.

LA4life24/8
07-21-2017, 09:47 AM
It reminds me of Magic Johnson. He doesn't get enough credit for his 5-4 record in the finals. I think that record is more impressive than MJ's 6-0 record.

What? Nah man. Thats silly. Magics 5-4 is impressive but the fact MJ never lost in a finals is damn impressive esp since it never went game 7. And two separate 3peats.

And if jordan didnt go play baseball we could be talkin about MJ bein 8-0.

Let me ask you this if you think 5-4 is better than 6-0 , would 6-2 be better than 6-0? If jordan hadnt retired but lost the finals those 2 years instead and then came back and 3peated?

I don't think so. Theres something about being perfect 6-0 man

LA4life24/8
07-21-2017, 09:49 AM
If you choose to ignore his Finals record, then it's hard to tout his 7 straight appearances as a major accomplishment in a weak East. Can't have it both ways.

To answer the question, I see very few, if any, scenarios where LeBron can tarnish his legacy, and these are not them.

That top part. Agree 100%. If just getting to the finals 7 times in a row is enough, why even bother playing the finals? Who cares who won at least ya made it. Nooope. Those 2 go hand in hand. You can make the finals every frikkin year of your career 15+ seasons but if you dont win it dont mean chit

Scoots
07-21-2017, 09:51 AM
Making the finals.

The incredible weakness of the East will be forgotten in time, and most already don't know about it.

eDush
07-21-2017, 10:06 AM
According to (dumb) fans, he'd be better losing before even getting to finals than losing in finals.

He could always go to Houston next year and team up with a few of his buddies :DThat makes no sense since losing in the finals is much better than losing in the conference final at best in the West. Rox will NEVER overtake the Dubs for the foreseeable future, injuries not withstanding.
:no:

eDush
07-21-2017, 10:09 AM
Dubs>Cavs>Spurs>Minny>OKC>Celtics>Wiz>Rox which is the natural order of things... :nod:

Kyben36
07-21-2017, 11:02 AM
I have said for a long time him tittle chassing from the Cavs was a bad move for his legacy. creating the first super team in Miami and promising tons of rings. then dipping when things got a little hard for a better option. doing it again. and leaving. he should have never left. (and told the FO. to get him real help. trade everyone and recruit if needed. ) if he did it again. to go find better help than kyrie and love. I'm not even sure where he could go to find better win now tallent then that. but it just would not look good to dip on the Cavs again.

this said. firing Gilbert was the stupidest move I have seen by a FO. he was actually looking to improve the team. now it seems the teams sitting in their hands.

also FWIW. I think him tittle chasing as the "best player in the league" is far more damming to his legacy than his finals record.

ewing
07-21-2017, 11:05 AM
Seriously like the Cavs aren't in such bad shape. Go get a little rim protection the Warriors couldn't stop you either.

Kyben36
07-21-2017, 11:09 AM
Making the Finals trumps not making it all day, every day. Suggesting otherwise is the perfect act in the theater of the absurd.....

this is a good point. but. who is to say that if he does move he can't make it. he would have to stay in the east for that. but the east is still weak. I don't buy Philly hype yet. still a few years out if embid works. I think that Boston's lack of comitment now has left them in a Simi win now mode. but Hayward Thomas and horford are far from enough considering most of the other guys are not ready.

I don't see many options for him leaving .myself. myself.

Vinylman
07-21-2017, 11:17 AM
nah... I have posted this many times on here since the talk of him leaving Cleveland surfaced...

I can't stand Lebron the person but if he wants to pass MJ as GOAT then he HAS to go west and beat the GS Warriors...

If he does that we can stop talking about GOAT

D-Leethal
07-21-2017, 01:41 PM
Different era but I never hear anyone speak glowingly about the fact that Elgin Baylor made 8 NBA Finals. I do hear about his 0-8 record though.

When LeBron is compared to Jordan, his Finals record is going to be the biggest talking point. That's just a fact. If you want context, there is plenty of context in the fact that LeBron was beating teams like the almighty Raptors and Hawks in the ECF. The most impressive part about his consecutive Finals appearances is his durability, not his ability to beat top competition in the playoffs.

mngopher35
07-21-2017, 01:57 PM
Who do you guys talk/listen to? Finals record is like rarely if ever brought up when discussing players that I have heard. It's a horrible way to judge anything, as if losing earlier is better? On that same note his competition to get to the finals hasn't been overly impressive so x amount in a row is lessened too. I don't think making it to the finals (and losing) or not really matters at all tbh for his legacy moving forward.

If he puts himself in a position to win a title and follows through his legacy will increase (depending on team, beating this gs probably gets goat talk). Staying in Cleveland and beating them would be the biggest boost he could get. Otherwise he is probably set as a top 2-5 to most and any route he takes won't change it a ton (unless he crazily stacks some other team and loses or something).

Hawkeye15
07-21-2017, 02:29 PM
Who do you guys talk/listen to? Finals record is like rarely if ever brought up when discussing players that I have heard. It's a horrible way to judge anything, as if losing earlier is better? On that same note his competition to get to the finals hasn't been overly impressive so x amount in a row is lessened too. I don't think making it to the finals (and losing) or not really matters at all tbh for his legacy moving forward.

If he puts himself in a position to win a title and follows through his legacy will increase (depending on team, beating this gs probably gets goat talk). Staying in Cleveland and beating them would be the biggest boost he could get. Otherwise he is probably set as a top 2-5 to most and any route he takes won't change it a ton (unless he crazily stacks some other team and loses or something).

thing is, when you get near Jordan as your only competition ever, which none of us are used to talking about, that is the single thing that differentiates the two now.

I am probably never going to put LeBron on Jordan's level, and it's because of the 2011 finals. Like that is the only reason I won't do it. But outside that, LeBron is the best I have seen since Jordan, and frankly, he is just as good. He just has that killer blemish man. But nobody can convince me, that outside the 2011 finals, LeBron's teams were ever favored. In fact, his finals competition takes a crap on Jordan's to be honest.

If we are discussing his finals:

2007 (L)- please, had no business even competing with the Spurs
2011 (L)- choke job, this one hurts
2012 (W)- won, as expected against a lesser team
2013 (W)- amazing playoff run by LeBron.
2014 (L)- nobody is beating that Spurs team that year, or nearly any year
2015 (L)- no Love, Irving gone after game 1, no chance in hell the Cavs win
2016 (W)- as a huge underdog, he wins the title, playing amazing in the series
2017 (L)- do I really even need to fill this section with words....

He has won a title he was an underdog in, and lost a title he was favored in. Otherwise, they have all played to expectations.

If Finals wins were the most important, all lists would start with Russell. The reason they become important in an argument against LeBron is, because it's an easy number/result to point to for downgrading purposes.

GREATNESS ONE
07-22-2017, 02:08 PM
nah... I have posted this many times on here since the talk of him leaving Cleveland surfaced...

I can't stand Lebron the person but if he wants to pass MJ as GOAT then he HAS to go west and beat the GS Warriors...

If he does that we can stop talking about GOAT

If he went West, beat the Warriors and won the Championship, he catapults himself up the ladder to the top spot. Especially if he did it twice.

ewing
07-22-2017, 03:16 PM
thing is, when you get near Jordan as your only competition ever, which none of us are used to talking about, that is the single thing that differentiates the two now.

I am probably never going to put LeBron on Jordan's level, and it's because of the 2011 finals. Like that is the only reason I won't do it. But outside that, LeBron is the best I have seen since Jordan, and frankly, he is just as good. He just has that killer blemish man. But nobody can convince me, that outside the 2011 finals, LeBron's teams were ever favored. In fact, his finals competition takes a crap on Jordan's to be honest.

If we are discussing his finals:

2007 (L)- please, had no business even competing with the Spurs
2011 (L)- choke job, this one hurts
2012 (W)- won, as expected against a lesser team
2013 (W)- amazing playoff run by LeBron.
2014 (L)- nobody is beating that Spurs team that year, or nearly any year
2015 (L)- no Love, Irving gone after game 1, no chance in hell the Cavs win
2016 (W)- as a huge underdog, he wins the title, playing amazing in the series
2017 (L)- do I really even need to fill this section with words....

He has won a title he was an underdog in, and lost a title he was favored in. Otherwise, they have all played to expectations.

If Finals wins were the most important, all lists would start with Russell. The reason they become important in an argument against LeBron is, because it's an easy number/result to point to for downgrading purposes.



Yeah he lost b/c he wasn't good enough. MJ didn't have that problem. i hate Bron still he is a top 10 or top 5 player ever. Its just the spin on this guy is redic.

mngopher35
07-22-2017, 03:35 PM
Who do you guys talk/listen to? Finals record is like rarely if ever brought up when discussing players that I have heard. It's a horrible way to judge anything, as if losing earlier is better? On that same note his competition to get to the finals hasn't been overly impressive so x amount in a row is lessened too. I don't think making it to the finals (and losing) or not really matters at all tbh for his legacy moving forward.

If he puts himself in a position to win a title and follows through his legacy will increase (depending on team, beating this gs probably gets goat talk). Staying in Cleveland and beating them would be the biggest boost he could get. Otherwise he is probably set as a top 2-5 to most and any route he takes won't change it a ton (unless he crazily stacks some other team and loses or something).

thing is, when you get near Jordan as your only competition ever, which none of us are used to talking about, that is the single thing that differentiates the two now.

I am probably never going to put LeBron on Jordan's level, and it's because of the 2011 finals. Like that is the only reason I won't do it. But outside that, LeBron is the best I have seen since Jordan, and frankly, he is just as good. He just has that killer blemish man. But nobody can convince me, that outside the 2011 finals, LeBron's teams were ever favored. In fact, his finals competition takes a crap on Jordan's to be honest.

If we are discussing his finals:

2007 (L)- please, had no business even competing with the Spurs
2011 (L)- choke job, this one hurts
2012 (W)- won, as expected against a lesser team
2013 (W)- amazing playoff run by LeBron.
2014 (L)- nobody is beating that Spurs team that year, or nearly any year
2015 (L)- no Love, Irving gone after game 1, no chance in hell the Cavs win
2016 (W)- as a huge underdog, he wins the title, playing amazing in the series
2017 (L)- do I really even need to fill this section with words....

He has won a title he was an underdog in, and lost a title he was favored in. Otherwise, they have all played to expectations.

If Finals wins were the most important, all lists would start with Russell. The reason they become important in an argument against LeBron is, because it's an easy number/result to point to for downgrading purposes.

I dunno if it's the only thing that separates them but if your point is the only reason finals record gets brought up now is because lebron is close to mj I guess that answers my question. I get that they are brought up by certain people about lebron.

I am saying generally speaking with other players etc that stuff is rarely mentioned in rankings/player talk as some big factor. Which is good because it's a horrible way to judge individuals.

Chavacano
07-22-2017, 03:52 PM
nah... I have posted this many times on here since the talk of him leaving Cleveland surfaced...

I can't stand Lebron the person but if he wants to pass MJ as GOAT then he HAS to go west and beat the GS Warriors...

If he does that we can stop talking about GOAT

^^ This.

LA_Raiders
07-22-2017, 07:59 PM
Go to the west and win a ship as allstar duo not a trio, and win more that once. That will make him comparable to Kobe.

Htownballa1622
07-23-2017, 12:29 PM
That makes no sense since losing in the finals is much better than losing in the conference final at best in the West. Rox will NEVER overtake the Dubs for the foreseeable future, injuries not withstanding.
:no:

You're reiterating my point.

As pertains to the warriors. No one was talking about them.

5ass
07-23-2017, 01:52 PM
Go to the west and win a ship as allstar duo not a trio, and win more that once. That will make him comparable to Kobe.

Lol Kobe did not have to face this Warriors team. Durant has three allstar teammates. He has already surpassed Kobe anyway.