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View Full Version : Is "One and Done" racist?



IndyRealist
07-13-2017, 08:07 AM
Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin doesn’t like the current system.

“It hints at racism,” Cronin wrote in a text to CBS Sports. “Basketball players are black. Baseball predominantly white. Just how I see it. Why can one group be trusted to make decisions and the other is being regulated? No matter what the rules, people will make mistakes. That has been proven for both sports.”

http://www.cincinnativseveryone.com/mick-cronin-calls-nba-one-done-racist-ncaa/

My view is that one and done exists not because the players can't be trusted to make good decisions, but rather that teams cannot be trusted to make good choices when drafting high schoolers. One and done forces teams to wait and evaluate players against collegiate competition.

The NBA also does not have the extensive farm system that baseball has. Baseball players aee drafted expecting to spend a few ywars in the minors, for the most part. NBA players are expected to perform in real games that matter from the jump.

ewing
07-13-2017, 08:22 AM
I think it is unfair but not racist. The NBA would prefer that teams drafting at the top of the draft are getting players that make them better right away. That used to be the case and the NBA tried to keep it that way with one and done but now everyone is one and done and most one and done guys aren't ready so it really doesn't matter


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PowerHouse
07-13-2017, 08:35 AM
Based on how he perceives things, the only thing racist is Cronin.

Celticsfan2007
07-13-2017, 08:48 AM
This guys take is straight garbage. First of all not all basketball players are black. Second of all football is a predominantly black sport as well and they need to play multiple years in college to be able to be drafted.

This guy is just waiving the race card because he doesn't like the rule. Pretty common thing in this day and age and exactly what is wrong with this country. Don't bring race into a conversation when it has nothing to do with the topic in the first place.

Fire this guy for being an asshat.

WaDe03
07-13-2017, 08:55 AM
Isn't everything racist these days?

hugepatsfan
07-13-2017, 08:57 AM
Baseball players aren't trusted to make decisions right away. That's part of why they spend years in the minors barring the exceptional athlete or two. Football players do multiple years of school too.

I'm not gonna deny racism rears its ugly head in many things that go beyond the surface level but I think the writer is reaching on this one.

sep11ie
07-13-2017, 09:11 AM
I miss America.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2017, 09:17 AM
The NBA doesn't have a system in place like the MLB, or NHL. If you had 18 year olds coming straight into those leagues, you would get a massive fail rate, and if they are anything like basketball, you would have just destroyed your scholarship eligibility.

MLB/NHL fans, when you are drafted, do you sign with an agent? Meaning, if you enter the draft, is your option to go to college and play gone? I don't think so, but it in the NBA.

I agree that if you are 18, and can die in war, you should be able to drink, or join the NBA. But the rule is in place for a reason. Barring very few exceptions, 18 year olds are not ready to play against real men.

Is the NFL racist? Need to be 3 years removed from high school to play..

Vee-Rex
07-13-2017, 10:02 AM
I miss America.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Care to elaborate?

warfelg
07-13-2017, 10:04 AM
What does that make the NFL with 3 years from HS graduation?

Gritz
07-13-2017, 11:23 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

Crackadalic
07-13-2017, 11:25 AM
Another snowflake

D-Leethal
07-13-2017, 11:46 AM
Oh.my.god.

AntiG
07-13-2017, 12:15 PM
so stupid.

GoferKing_
07-13-2017, 12:19 PM
Everything is racist.

nastynice
07-13-2017, 12:26 PM
I kinda see what he's saying. It's more of a general undertone which he's referring to

Vinylman
07-13-2017, 12:56 PM
It has nothing to do with race ... it is about mitigating risk for the owners... it is their league and they can do what they want...

all these SJ Warriors trying to curry favor because of white guilt is comical...

I think it is racist that the university of Cincinnati profits off the backs of minority athletes... the collegiate plantation is much more racist than some kid getting an NBA deal a year earlier...

see what I did there...

Scoots
07-13-2017, 01:35 PM
I think it is unfair but not racist. The NBA would prefer that teams drafting at the top of the draft are getting players that make them better right away. That used to be the case and the NBA tried to keep it that way with one and done but now everyone is one and done and most one and done guys aren't ready so it really doesn't matter

Anything with a CBA is inherently unfair. I'm not a big believer in "fair" in groups larger than 3 people, but the reason pro sports in the US have CBAs is to get the monopoly exemption. To be closer to fair there should be no draft, no cap, and no limitations on contracts. If a player wants to sign a "career" contract they should be allowed to and the law should just require the player adhere to the terms of the contract.

Vinylman
07-13-2017, 01:43 PM
Anything with a CBA is inherently unfair. I'm not a big believer in "fair" in groups larger than 3 people, but the reason pro sports in the US have CBAs is to get the monopoly exemption. To be closer to fair there should be no draft, no cap, and no limitations on contracts. If a player wants to sign a "career" contract they should be allowed to and the law should just require the player adhere to the terms of the contract.


in the purest sense of course...

in reality... zero chance that maximizes salaries in the league... you would just end up with a **** product and overall less interest which would drive total revenue down which hurts the players more than the current system...

there is a reason the model is what it is ... because sustainability of the league (product) and increasing franchise values are the cornerstone of ownership interests.

FlashBolt
07-13-2017, 02:31 PM
The issue is the quality of basketball. Some of these kids just need to get into college so they can develop their game into the NBA. If they're coming right out of high school, a bunch of these guys are just going to play reckless and ruin their own career. If I'm the NBA, I take the college stuff out and have these guys play in the D-League for at least a year. NCAA is corrupt and a scam.

IndyRealist
07-13-2017, 03:51 PM
The issue is the quality of basketball. Some of these kids just need to get into college so they can develop their game into the NBA. If they're coming right out of high school, a bunch of these guys are just going to play reckless and ruin their own career. If I'm the NBA, I take the college stuff out and have these guys play in the D-League for at least a year. NCAA is corrupt and a scam.

95% of these kids did go to college to work on their game. There were very few high schoolers drafted each year compared to how many went to college, prior to the one and done rule.

AntiG
07-13-2017, 04:14 PM
Its also a socially responsible thing to do in general. The majority of potential pro basketball players will not make it in the NBA, and the majority will not get PAID a lot either if they actually do. If you think back to the difference between after your first year in college being on your own vs when you were still in HS, there's actually significant growth due to living independently. Additionally that one extra year of basketball and academic training actually does make a difference in their translation to the pros. Basically by dangling that money and fame out there, the NBA encourages young people to ignore academics and care more about ball, and in the end, unless they get a big first contract many will be dirt poor and behind the ball in life if they don't get drafted high.

Gibby23
07-13-2017, 05:23 PM
The NBA doesn't have a system in place like the MLB, or NHL. If you had 18 year olds coming straight into those leagues, you would get a massive fail rate, and if they are anything like basketball, you would have just destroyed your scholarship eligibility.

MLB/NHL fans, when you are drafted, do you sign with an agent? Meaning, if you enter the draft, is your option to go to college and play gone? I don't think so, but it in the NBA.

I agree that if you are 18, and can die in war, you should be able to drink, or join the NBA. But the rule is in place for a reason. Barring very few exceptions, 18 year olds are not ready to play against real men.

Is the NFL racist? Need to be 3 years removed from high school to play..

In MLB you don't enter the draft, teams can just draft you out of high school and after your 2nd or 3rd year of college. I believe you can have representation to work out a deal. If the deal isn't worked out, you can go to college or back to college in the case of the Junior being drafted.

Ishkabibble
07-13-2017, 06:57 PM
I miss America.

Likely theee most racist thing I've ever heard!!

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2017, 07:40 PM
http://www.cincinnativseveryone.com/mick-cronin-calls-nba-one-done-racist-ncaa/

My view is that one and done exists not because the players can't be trusted to make good decisions, but rather that teams cannot be trusted to make good choices when drafting high schoolers.

I agree. But the system may be systemically 'racist' if it is more likely to impact certain players.

For example, when Canada created its opium laws, they did so knowing that it would them the authority to raid Chinese opium dens and start deporting the Chinese labourers that built the railway. Likewise, when the civil rights movement really started making steam, the US government enacted stricter drug laws and started the 'war on drugs'. Why? The policy made no more sense that prohibition laws. But drugs were more common in urban neighbourhoods and gave police a 'legit' reason to target these areas and break up political organizations.

Sometimes this policies are malicious to start. Other times, some who support them may legitimately think they are doing good. When crack became a problem within Black communities, there may have been some who thought stricter laws for crack would help get the drug out of these communities. However, now Black people selling/using crack were being given longer sentences than whites selling/using cocaine, which was pretty much the same chemical compound. Now some, I believe, knew how this would play out, while others may have been naive about the solution actually helping.

So... if Black athletes who skip high school were more likely to get picked than white athletes doing the same (and if we look, we will see that is the case), then yes, this is a systemically racist policy, even if its intent was something other than targeting Black athletes.

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2017, 07:47 PM
It has nothing to do with race ... it is about mitigating risk for the owners.

This may very well have been the intent (and I believe you are correct in this); however, that doesn't mean that the policy doesn't disproportionately impact Black athletes, which would make this an instance of systemic racism, which a system or policy (whether intentionally or not) impact members of one racial category more than others.



I think it is racist that the university of Cincinnati profits off the backs of minority athletes... the collegiate plantation is much more racist than some kid getting an NBA deal a year earlier.

I'm not sure if you are joking here, but yes, the fact that rich colleges are profiting off of student athletes is fairly analogous to plantations in many respect, though obviously not a cruel, and obviously with the is drastically different in many ways and include members of all races.

Not paying somebody for work is wrong, and giving them a scholarship that can be revoked if they get injured and fawked up their entire life in the process is also wrong. Athletes should be paid. If people are making money off your work, you should be getting money. Colleges have essentially created a trust with price fixing, which has translated into a collective monopoly that profits off the backs of hard-working kids.

Hustla23
07-13-2017, 08:27 PM
I think there should be zero regulations like in soccer.

They have random 16 year old beast prospects sometimes come up to the main club and play a game or two which is pretty interesting to watch lol.

CityofTreez
07-13-2017, 08:28 PM
Likely theee most racist thing I've ever heard!!

Stop being racist!

Raps18-19 Champ
07-13-2017, 09:39 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious the rule was made with inner city black kids in mind.

I don't think it's the NBA's job to help them out. If that 18 year old with little education wants to go pro, so be it. If he blows all his money because of his lack of maturity and doesn't find a good job should they bust due to their lack of education, so be it.

eDush
07-13-2017, 10:56 PM
I think there should be zero regulations like in soccer.

They have random 16 year old beast prospects sometimes come up to the main club and play a game or two which is pretty interesting to watch lol.Hope not as that would be racist if taken seriously! :(

Mr.B
07-13-2017, 11:26 PM
http://www.cincinnativseveryone.com/mick-cronin-calls-nba-one-done-racist-ncaa/

My view is that one and done exists not because the players can't be trusted to make good decisions, but rather that teams cannot be trusted to make good choices when drafting high schoolers. One and done forces teams to wait and evaluate players against collegiate competition.

The NBA also does not have the extensive farm system that baseball has. Baseball players aee drafted expecting to spend a few ywars in the minors, for the most part. NBA players are expected to perform in real games that matter from the jump.

Aren't baseball players predominantly Latin?

Scoots
07-14-2017, 02:38 AM
in the purest sense of course...

in reality... zero chance that maximizes salaries in the league... you would just end up with a **** product and overall less interest which would drive total revenue down which hurts the players more than the current system...

there is a reason the model is what it is ... because sustainability of the league (product) and increasing franchise values are the cornerstone of ownership interests.

Sure, thus the CBA and the draft and the college rules. But "fair" means there can be no rules that restrict anyone.

JasonJohnHorn
07-14-2017, 09:53 AM
If not racist, it is at the very least ageist.

Scoots
07-14-2017, 09:55 AM
Likely theee most racist thing I've ever heard!!

Whaaaat, Miss America is a wholesome contest for a scholarship. It's not gross or sordid in any way!

warfelg
07-14-2017, 10:03 AM
Funny thing was there was no problem with the system the way it was before. Sudden rise in young players in the league shot up with the 1 and done rule.

Jamiecballer
07-14-2017, 10:07 AM
this is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. it's a shame when ridiculous statements like this are made because racism is still an issue and statements like these just create tension.

it wasn't racist towards white people when tim hortons raised the price of their coffee just like it's not racism here.

Vinylman
07-14-2017, 10:40 AM
Funny thing was there was no problem with the system the way it was before. Sudden rise in young players in the league shot up with the 1 and done rule.

it has way less to do with the 1 and done and more to do with the rookie scale... the whole idea is to get to FA as young as possible which is why there are so many 1 and done guys

Vinylman
07-14-2017, 10:46 AM
This may very well have been the intent (and I believe you are correct in this); however, that doesn't mean that the policy doesn't disproportionately impact Black athletes, which would make this an instance of systemic racism, which a system or policy (whether intentionally or not) impact members of one racial category more than others.




I'm not sure if you are joking here, but yes, the fact that rich colleges are profiting off of student athletes is fairly analogous to plantations in many respect, though obviously not a cruel, and obviously with the is drastically different in many ways and include members of all races.

Not paying somebody for work is wrong, and giving them a scholarship that can be revoked if they get injured and fawked up their entire life in the process is also wrong. Athletes should be paid. If people are making money off your work, you should be getting money. Colleges have essentially created a trust with price fixing, which has translated into a collective monopoly that profits off the backs of hard-working kids.

was and wasn't joking...

it was a commentary on how daft the coach is ... he points out what he believes to be racist in the NBA policy which effect VERY VERY FEW minorities and ignores a collegiate system in place that effect vast amounts of minorities and more importantly ones that will never play at the professional level that are generating massive incomes for universities with no real compensation

If he is such an advocate to eradicate what he perceives as racism he should probably start in his own backyard.
Of course he isn't ... he just wanted to make himself feel better by acknowledging it

Scoots
07-14-2017, 12:59 PM
it has way less to do with the 1 and done and more to do with the rookie scale... the whole idea is to get to FA as young as possible which is why there are so many 1 and done guys

It was probably part of it in the beginning of the rookie scale, now it's just the norm and these kids don't know any other way.

This is often what happens with rule changes ... they have the desired effect in the short term and often an unexpected negative in the long run.

ewing
07-15-2017, 07:37 AM
If not racist, it is at the very least ageist.

and homophobic

warfelg
07-15-2017, 09:14 AM
it has way less to do with the 1 and done and more to do with the rookie scale... the whole idea is to get to FA as young as possible which is why there are so many 1 and done guys

Count how often freshmen and HS kids were picked in the draft before the 1 and done rule was put into place.

It really changed with that rule. Before if you were a HS kid that jumped right to the NBA you had to be extremely special to even get drafted. And the guys that went to college had to develop and come out more polished to get drafted high.

The one and done rule was put into place and it exploded. The name of the game was go to college and develop your game to now it's get there prove you can chew gum and run at the same time and you can get picked in the draft.

1 and Done has done just as much to hurt the NBA as it did the NCAA IMO.

Vinylman
07-15-2017, 09:37 AM
Count how often freshmen and HS kids were picked in the draft before the 1 and done rule was put into place.

It really changed with that rule. Before if you were a HS kid that jumped right to the NBA you had to be extremely special to even get drafted. And the guys that went to college had to develop and come out more polished to get drafted high.

The one and done rule was put into place and it exploded. The name of the game was go to college and develop your game to now it's get there prove you can chew gum and run at the same time and you can get picked in the draft.

1 and Done has done just as much to hurt the NBA as it did the NCAA IMO.

You are looking at it backwards.... you had to be a special talent before the scale was Put in place because of the amount of money paid to top picks... if all the league had done was put the scale in place every HS senior would have just skipped college and gone straight to the NBA ... the one and done rule was put in place to force all kids to go to college so owners could get one more year of evaluation.

The way to fix all of it is easy

Lower the scale for rookies and don't have their salaries count against the cap for 2 years... this mitigates the owner risk and allows anyone to enter the draft.

Scoots
07-15-2017, 07:01 PM
How about have a sliding rookie deal scale, the more time in college or as a pro (in qualifying leagues) when you are drafted the higher your rookie deal could start? That way staying in school doesn't cost money like it's perceived it does now and it protects owners from big bad contracts from their GMs assessment of fake talent.

C-ross12
07-15-2017, 07:55 PM
Mick Cronin is clearly angling to get on the side of the black man. Perhaps he thinks this will help him in recruiting?

papipapsmanny
07-17-2017, 09:22 PM
No its just the NBA execs are too stupid to just make it the rule that high school kids can get drafted but then still stay committed to their school to play college bball if they don't like their position, signing bonus, or simply just want to go to college.

I mean how big of morons are these guys that they can't just make that rule

mavwar53
07-17-2017, 10:25 PM
Everything is racist if you want to put a racist spin on it.

The NBA is racist against whites because a dunk competition can't be won by a man who can't jump.

Or

The NBA is racist because it treats black athletes greatest assets like a circus show for the white mans pocketbook benefit.

TrueFan420
07-18-2017, 12:12 AM
this is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. it's a shame when ridiculous statements like this are made because racism is still an issue and statements like these both distract and detract from the real issues.

Fixed

Sssmush
07-18-2017, 03:21 AM
I'd say yes but it goes both ways.

The league heavily favors players in some ways whereas the real commodity of the nba is largely based on youth and athleticism. I'm maybe not explaining it correctly, but just look at teams on the hook to pay Carmelo for instance $56m over two years, and even in a trade his value is largely in his name, shoe affiliations, etc

Whereas if there were no cap or otherwise free(er) market the knicks would be much better paying a 21 year old kyle kuzma $1m-$2m.

I mean the players should be able to sign even while in college. In a way the bogus amateurism prevents them from getting an education while pursuing their dreams. The pkayers should not be restricted from capitalism... but on the other hand teams shouldnt be anchored down with these weird overpriced contracts. Like knicks should be allowed just buyout carmelo and no cap hit etc.

Like a Lonzo Ball or a KAT or a Simmons is pure gold wasting a year in college hoops, while the knicks are sitting there paying a Carmelo $30 million dollars it's all just weird and out of whack. Backroom deal with college hoops I'm sure cause it helped build the brand and everybody gets paid

Oakmont_4
07-18-2017, 06:47 AM
I'd say yes but it goes both ways.

The league heavily favors players in some ways whereas the real commodity of the nba is largely based on youth and athleticism. I'm maybe not explaining it correctly, but just look at teams on the hook to pay Carmelo for instance $56m over two years, and even in a trade his value is largely in his name, shoe affiliations, etc

Whereas if there were no cap or otherwise free(er) market the knicks would be much better paying a 21 year old kyle kuzma $1m-$2m.

I mean the players should be able to sign even while in college. In a way the bogus amateurism prevents them from getting an education while pursuing their dreams. The pkayers should not be restricted from capitalism... but on the other hand teams shouldnt be anchored down with these weird overpriced contracts. Like knicks should be allowed just buyout carmelo and no cap hit etc.

Like a Lonzo Ball or a KAT or a Simmons is pure gold wasting a year in college hoops, while the knicks are sitting there paying a Carmelo $30 million dollars it's all just weird and out of whack. Backroom deal with college hoops I'm sure cause it helped build the brand and everybody gets paid

Why should the Knicks get a bail out for a bad decision? The cap exists to level the playing field. If the Knicks and other large market teams could just get out of every bad decision they've made and spend infinite dollars on top talent whenever they wanted....You might as well have a 6 team league with BOS, LAL, NYK, CHI, MIA, DAL. Small market teams would never be able to compete. They have a hard enough time competing now, but your ideas would make it impossible.

Vinylman
07-18-2017, 08:31 AM
No its just the NBA execs are too stupid to just make it the rule that high school kids can get drafted but then still stay committed to their school to play college bball if they don't like their position, signing bonus, or simply just want to go to college.

I mean how big of morons are these guys that they can't just make that rule

LMFAO

they would go for this in a second... its the players association that won't do it because then players would have to be under control longer which means less money sooner for the players...

Sssmush
07-18-2017, 06:27 PM
Why should the Knicks get a bail out for a bad decision? The cap exists to level the playing field. If the Knicks and other large market teams could just get out of every bad decision they've made and spend infinite dollars on top talent whenever they wanted....You might as well have a 6 team league with BOS, LAL, NYK, CHI, MIA, DAL. Small market teams would never be able to compete. They have a hard enough time competing now, but your ideas would make it impossible.

Yeah I dont have the answer but all i know is its weird that teams are paying big name middle aged guys $50m when its a youth spirt and these incredible young players are playing for free in college, in a worthless symbolic one and done year that gives them no degree.

Young players can ball out against older players and in bball can be very superior in some ways

Laker Legend42
07-18-2017, 09:27 PM
Racist is kinda strong but I get it. In other sports guys go pro without ever going to college. Ironically they are sports where black kids aren't going in to. It's just like the dress code. It was the black player coming in white tee's and gold chains. However,I just so happen to agree with the dress code. You should be held to a higher standard.

KG2TB
07-18-2017, 11:21 PM
It's extremely racist. Instead of letting urban kids become multi millionaires straight out of HS, they're making them wait to make millions for an additional year.

Meanwhile, I have to take classes that have nothing to do with my profession, extending the time it will take me to graduate, so the business of college gets more money...and when I'm done won't even make 100k. Times are crazy when racism could even be brought up over something like this.

There are rules that are set for a myriad of reasons. People can't drink at 18, but they can go to war. Sometimes the less qualified african american gets the job over a more skilled caucasian. Sometimes people get locked up for tax evasion longer than someone who killed or raped someone. Everything that is "unfair" or something that you don't necessarily agree with isn't racist. It's just the reality of life. Not everything, on every plane is fair down the middle. The world doesn't work that way.

If I were an aspiring and soon to be professional athlete, and the rule was I have to wait a year out of HS...then I'd be ecstatic. It's an extremely small price to pay and at the age of 20, those individuals will be making more money than most of the people in the world. Such racism!

FlashBolt
07-18-2017, 11:30 PM
It's extremely racist. Instead of letting urban kids become multi millionaires straight out of HS, they're making them wait to make millions for an additional year.

Meanwhile, I have to take classes that have nothing to do with my profession, extending the time it will take me to graduate, so the business of college gets more money...and when I'm done won't even make 100k. Times are crazy when racism could even be brought up over something like this.

There are rules that are set for a myriad of reasons. People can't drink at 18, but they can go to war. Sometimes the less qualified african american gets the job over a more skilled caucasian. Sometimes people get locked up for tax evasion longer than someone who killed or raped someone. Everything that is "unfair" or something that you don't necessarily agree with isn't racist. It's just the reality of life. Not everything, on every plane is fair down the middle. The world doesn't work that way.

If I were an aspiring and soon to be professional athlete, and the rule was I have to wait a year out of HS...then I'd be ecstatic. It's an extremely small price to pay and at the age of 20, those individuals will be making more money than most of the people in the world. Such racism!

It's racist that you think blacks are the only individuals talented enough to come out of H.S., isn't it? It's not racist. It's about money. NCAA is an organization with LOTS of money being exchanged in terms of merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships, funding, academic awareness for the school, state activity, etc., It's more economical than race. Anyone trying to point this at race need to get over it. Slavery was operated not mainly under racism but economic growth. But we're in a society where if you mention race, it sells.

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 12:36 AM
It's extremely racist. Instead of letting urban kids become multi millionaires straight out of HS, they're making them wait to make millions for an additional year.

Meanwhile, I have to take classes that have nothing to do with my profession, extending the time it will take me to graduate, so the business of college gets more money...and when I'm done won't even make 100k. Times are crazy when racism could even be brought up over something like this.

There are rules that are set for a myriad of reasons. People can't drink at 18, but they can go to war. Sometimes the less qualified african american gets the job over a more skilled caucasian. Sometimes people get locked up for tax evasion longer than someone who killed or raped someone. Everything that is "unfair" or something that you don't necessarily agree with isn't racist. It's just the reality of life. Not everything, on every plane is fair down the middle. The world doesn't work that way.

If I were an aspiring and soon to be professional athlete, and the rule was I have to wait a year out of HS...then I'd be ecstatic. It's an extremely small price to pay and at the age of 20, those individuals will be making more money than most of the people in the world. Such racism!

You sound like one if those bitter Trumpy fake-conservative snowflakes who will probably turn into communists in like a decade.

bleah

Saying we cant discuss policy and morality because "thats how the world is, son" is one of the more idiotic fake conservative arguments

Laker Legend42
07-19-2017, 02:37 AM
It's racist that you think blacks are the only individuals talented enough to come out of H.S., isn't it? It's not racist. It's about money. NCAA is an organization with LOTS of money being exchanged in terms of merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships, funding, academic awareness for the school, state activity, etc., It's more economical than race. Anyone trying to point this at race need to get over it. Slavery was operated not mainly under racism but economic growth. But we're in a society where if you mention race, it sells.
I don't think he was saying only black kids are talented enough to come right out of high school. Also this rule actually has nothing to do with college. This is a nba rule. The NCAA has nothing to do with this. This isn't an argument in golf tennis or even baseball. I get why the NFL does it. That would be kids attempting to play with men. Could it be viewed as racist? Yes. Can it be covered up as simply saying high school kids weaken the nba product? Yes. It could be a little bit of both.

FlashBolt
07-19-2017, 02:39 AM
I don't think he was saying only black kids are talented enough to come right out of high school. Also this rule actually has nothing to do with college. This is a nba rule. The NCAA has nothing to do with this. This isn't an argument in golf tennis or even baseball. I get why the NFL does it. That would be kids attempting to play with men. Could it be viewed as racist? Yes. Can it be covered up as simply saying high school kids weaken the nba product? Yes. It could be a little bit of both.

Lobbyists, dude. People are getting paid to agree to certain things. NCAA might not have direct say in terms of structure but if they dough out money, people are going to look away. Plus, it is racist just by the sheer fact that he is saying it is racist. His post implies that he's black and that blacks are being limited because of this. I'm simply stating that it is more economic-based than racial-based.

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 04:14 AM
It's racist that you think blacks are the only individuals talented enough to come out of H.S., isn't it? It's not racist. It's about money. NCAA is an organization with LOTS of money being exchanged in terms of merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships, funding, academic awareness for the school, state activity, etc., It's more economical than race. Anyone trying to point this at race need to get over it. Slavery was operated not mainly under racism but economic growth. But we're in a society where if you mention race, it sells.


That's pretty slimey of you to say. I mean I guess you get a little private chuckle because you think you're clever but whatever.

You miss the point entirely and bringing slavery into the discussion, and then even saying that slavery was not based on racism but on economics, conflates this whole mess in the most trollish way.

Let me break it down for you:

Classical liberal principles such as the FREE MARKET dictates that economic opportunity will not be restricted and allow for unfettered competition and meritocracy.

HUMANISM dictates that we do not treat people differently based on race and that everybody has equal rights under the law.

Clearly the NBA rules it's own little fiefdom, but imo it's concessions to the old boys club of the NCAA and to the players union should not infringe any individuals rights. That many top young bball prospects have some degree of african ancestry or identify as black makes this a potential issue if a policy affects them disproportionately.

No one gives a **** if youre irritated by political correctness or whatever

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 05:02 AM
It's racist that you think blacks are the only individuals talented enough to come out of H.S., isn't it? It's not racist. It's about money. NCAA is an organization with LOTS of money being exchanged in terms of merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships, funding, academic awareness for the school, state activity, etc., It's more economical than race. Anyone trying to point this at race need to get over it. Slavery was operated not mainly under racism but economic growth. But we're in a society where if you mention race, it sells.

So just to be absolutely clear, I believe your saying that slavery was not predicated on racism is ****ing grotesque and ugly.

I'm guessing that your response to this will tell me exactly who you are

KG2TB
07-19-2017, 07:17 AM
You sound like one if those bitter Trumpy fake-conservative snowflakes who will probably turn into communists in like a decade.

bleah

Saying we cant discuss policy and morality because "thats how the world is, son" is one of the more idiotic fake conservative arguments

lol I'm not a conservative nor a trump (nor most political supporter). So nice try there. Way to cherry pick and straw man your way through my post. If that's what you got out of what I said, good luck to you.

FlashBolt
07-19-2017, 02:07 PM
So just to be absolutely clear, I believe your saying that slavery was not predicated on racism is ****ing grotesque and ugly.

I'm guessing that your response to this will tell me exactly who you are

Look at the facts, buddy. I'm not here to burst your emotional bubble. Slavery was conducted primarily due to economic growth in America. Brazil actually took in more slaves in the North Atlantic Slave Trade. I don't have the urge to go in-depth with you on this but yes, it soon became "racist." That's not my point. Irish were treated like complete turds when they came to America. A bunch of them were treated as filth and many Irish bonded with blacks in that they were both poorly treated. But hey, call me racist. That's what you guys like to do these days instead of articulating fact.

FlashBolt
07-19-2017, 02:14 PM
That's pretty slimey of you to say. I mean I guess you get a little private chuckle because you think you're clever but whatever.

You miss the point entirely and bringing slavery into the discussion, and then even saying that slavery was not based on racism but on economics, conflates this whole mess in the most trollish way.

Let me break it down for you:

Classical liberal principles such as the FREE MARKET dictates that economic opportunity will not be restricted and allow for unfettered competition and meritocracy.

HUMANISM dictates that we do not treat people differently based on race and that everybody has equal rights under the law.

Clearly the NBA rules it's own little fiefdom, but imo it's concessions to the old boys club of the NCAA and to the players union should not infringe any individuals rights. That many top young bball prospects have some degree of african ancestry or identify as black makes this a potential issue if a policy affects them disproportionately.

No one gives a **** if youre irritated by political correctness or whatever

Right, the NBA is prohibiting young black males from entering the NBA sooner despite the fact that the majority of NBA players are black. The NBA wants to limit the earning potential of NBA players (primarily blacks) despite the fact that NBA players (predominantly black) are earning record salary potential. I already went on a previous post saying how the One and Done rule is stupid. But I also stated that some of these High School players should be on an NBA D-League team so we can gauge just what type of talent they are. High School competition is vastly different from college competition. Had Kwame Brown entered college, he probably wouldn't even be the 1st pick in the draft. The only reason I say this is because the NCAA is a corrupt system predicated not on scouting talent but for economic purposes. If you don't think guys like John Calipari and Mike have any leverage in these discussions, you're misunderstanding a billion+ dollar business in the NCAA. You're also forgetting that schools get sponsored by companies and that states earn revenue with the NCAA product in-tact.

I wasn't even the one who brought race into this. My entire argument had nothing to do with race. I just don't see how race is the issue because racists like their money more than they hate a certain race.

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 03:33 PM
*

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 03:53 PM
Look at the facts, buddy. I'm not here to burst your emotional bubble. Slavery was conducted primarily due to economic growth in America. Brazil actually took in more slaves in the North Atlantic Slave Trade. I don't have the urge to go in-depth with you on this but yes, it soon became "racist." That's not my point. Irish were treated like complete turds when they came to America. A bunch of them were treated as filth and many Irish bonded with blacks in that they were both poorly treated. But hey, call me racist. That's what you guys like to do these days instead of articulating fact.

The fundamental racism of slavery was inseparrable from its economics. The justification for slavery was also found in religion.

In general civilization was much more primitive 200 years ago than it is today, and secular and humanist truths and principles hadnt taken root outside of the elite classes or become law except in some more advanced countries. Places like the american south and yes brazil parts of africa the middle east etc all lagged behind. Obviously slavery itself is very ancient. Clearly clearly always rooted in either racism and religion or various forms of tribalism and classism which are ultimately built on the same two things. The "economics" is too broad a term. Obviously free labor is profitable when its available and otherwise marginally profitable industries got addicted to it.

Everything I've just said should be pretty obvious if you pause and think about it

FlashBolt
07-19-2017, 03:59 PM
The fundamental racism of slavery was inseparrable from its economics. The justification for slavery was also found in religion.

In general civilization was much more primitive 200 years ago than it is today, and secular and humanist truths and principles hadnt taken root outside of the elite classes or become law except in some more advanced countries. Places like the american south and yes brazil parts of africa the middle east etc all lagged behind. Obviously slavery itself is very ancient. Clearly clearly always rooted in either racism and religion or various forms of tribalism and classism which are ultimately built on the same two things. The "economics" is too broad a term. Obviously free labor is profitable when its available and otherwise marginally profitable industries got addicted to it.

Everything I've just said should be pretty obvious if you pause and think about it

Sounded like a whole bunch of nonsense you just read from Google literally two seconds before posting it. Thanks for the read, I guess? Not sure what you're trying to prove there.

C-ross12
07-19-2017, 04:12 PM
The fundamental racism of slavery was inseparrable from its economics. The justification for slavery was also found in religion.

In general civilization was much more primitive 200 years ago than it is today, and secular and humanist truths and principles hadnt taken root outside of the elite classes or become law except in some more advanced countries. Places like the american south and yes brazil parts of africa the middle east etc all lagged behind. Obviously slavery itself is very ancient. Clearly clearly always rooted in either racism and religion or various forms of tribalism and classism which are ultimately built on the same two things. The "economics" is too broad a term. Obviously free labor is profitable when its available and otherwise marginally profitable industries got addicted to it.

Everything I've just said should be pretty obvious if you pause and think about it

What? It sounds like you just bundled a bunch of nonsense buzz words together.

Sssmush
07-19-2017, 09:34 PM
Sounded like a whole bunch of nonsense you just read from Google literally two seconds before posting it. Thanks for the read, I guess? Not sure what you're trying to prove there.

Yo you could say I won and done.

Yeah gotta say it's pretty gross, that somebody starts a thred to discuss the issue of if the NCAA - NBA draft policy is in any way racially prejudiced so then you waltz in here and declare that American slavery wasn't based in racism. Slavery, an institution that was entirely based on the backwards idea that "gawd" created one "race" of people, but then also created another "race" that they claimed they had the "gawd given" right to enslave. Again all revolving around the fundamentally racist idea that there there are discrete types or "races" of humans that do not share common humanity.

Then you throw in some undergrad economic bull**** and har har har. And then I bring this to your attention and you say "I dont care what you think of me."

I mean hey, I dont care either. Nothing to win from you. Whatever. If you want to try and argue the point I might be interested to respond