PDA

View Full Version : NBA Executive Rankings



Hustla23
07-09-2017, 08:19 PM
Title speaks for itself.

1.) RC Buford - Consistently puts together shrewd moves that have the Spurs competing seemingly since time immemorial.

2.) Danny Ainge - Hate how stingy he is but would be ecstatic if he was my team's G.M. Somehow finds a way to extract maximum value in most deals and has demonstrated an innovative methodology when it comes to team building.

3.) Bob Myers - Most accomplished team in recent history.

4.) Daryl Morey - Gets plus points for being heavily invested in advanced analytics and using it to shape his team building strategies.

5.) Phil Jackson - Showed a rare combination of wisdom and vision that transcended anything that we have seen previously.

Honorable mentions: Colangelo, Pritchard, Presti, and whoever runs Minnesota.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-09-2017, 08:30 PM
Lol at the Pat Riley omission and the PJ executive ranking.

TrueFan420
07-09-2017, 08:44 PM
Title speaks for itself.

1.) RC Buford - Consistently puts together shrewd moves that have the Spurs competing seemingly since time immemorial.

2.) Danny Ainge - Hate how stingy he is but would be ecstatic if he was my team's G.M. Somehow finds a way to extract maximum value in most deals and has demonstrated an innovative methodology when it comes to team building.

3.) Bob Myers - Most accomplished team in recent history.

4.) Daryl Morey - Gets plus points for being heavily invested in advanced analytics and using it to shape his team building strategies.

5.) Phil Jackson - Showed a rare combination of wisdom and vision that transcended anything that we have seen previously.

Honorable mentions: Colangelo, Pritchard, Presti, and whoever runs Minnesota.

Um... What da ****... Phil has been horrible as a GM.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2017, 08:47 PM
:laugh2:

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 08:51 PM
Are we being punked?

MJNetsIsles
07-09-2017, 08:53 PM
Sean Marks is the GOAT

Ebbs
07-09-2017, 08:56 PM
:laugh:

Scoots
07-09-2017, 09:12 PM
RC needs some more of his miracles. Is Murray the future?

Ariza's Better
07-09-2017, 09:13 PM
Who knew Phil Jackson had an account on here.

Sportfan
07-09-2017, 09:23 PM
This is a knicks fan posting this too hahah

Bowman53
07-09-2017, 10:18 PM
Ainge at 2? Has he drafted a single All Star?

Scoots
07-09-2017, 10:29 PM
Ainge at 2? Has he drafted a single All Star?

It's not about winning, it's about assets!

GREATNESS ONE
07-09-2017, 10:35 PM
Ainge at 2? Has he drafted a single All Star?

He might have drafted a future one this year. Tatum looks good.

Hustla23
07-09-2017, 10:51 PM
Wow, jokes really go over your heads quite easily.

The rest of the post is serious, though lol.

Hustla23
07-09-2017, 10:54 PM
Ainge at 2? Has he drafted a single All Star?

Tatum and Brown look like potential All Star talents.

But I like Ainge's methodology when it comes to team building. He sees the bigger picture and prioritizes sustainability over short term success.

Green_Monster
07-09-2017, 11:30 PM
It's not about winning, it's about assets!

Except he was just the #1 seed, signed an all-star, and kept all his assets. :laugh2:

FOXHOUND
07-09-2017, 11:41 PM
The irony that "the person who runs Minnesota" is Thibs as President and none other than the legendary Scott Layden of former Knicks fame as GM. Remember when the Knicks could have had Thibs who was almost begging for the job but didn't get him because Phil Jackson wouldn't even interview him? I remember that.

warfelg
07-10-2017, 08:40 AM
Despite all the tanking I think almost everyone would say Hinkie is worlds better than Jackson as an executive.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-10-2017, 09:45 AM
Myers has to be #1 right now

tredigs
07-10-2017, 11:05 AM
RC Buford is the godfather but judging by everything I see/read about Meyers and how much work he puts in + the moves he has helped orchestrate, I think he has to be the king right now. Ainge is up there (and will be seen as such to most of his detractors in 2 years), and Morey is as well. Those are four that you can trust to always be making a smart play and/or a solid risk that can be backed up. If Gar Forman or Doc Rivers is your teams GM, you do not have that luxury.

hugepatsfan
07-10-2017, 11:18 AM
I think the biggest part of being a great GM, besides the obvious of drafting well, is the way you keep the ship on course when you go to plans B and C. It's easy to make a plan to sign the best FA, trade for the best guy available, but what really defines a great GM to me is how you react to those plans falling through. Do you panic and make poor decisions that hurt your future or are you able to regroup and come up with a suitable short-term plan that enables you to achieve your objectives the following year?

tredigs
07-10-2017, 11:28 AM
I think the biggest part of being a great GM, besides the obvious of drafting well, is the way you keep the ship on course when you go to plans B and C. It's easy to make a plan to sign the best FA, trade for the best guy available, but what really defines a great GM to me is how you react to those plans falling through. Do you panic and make poor decisions that hurt your future or are you able to regroup and come up with a suitable short-term plan that enables you to achieve your objectives the following year?

That's a big factor, but there are a lot of big factors. How is your relationship with current/former players and their agents, how is your relationship with other GM's, talent scouting is huge, understanding contract lengths/sizes and the cap implications is obviously huge. Being on top of advanced stats and a step ahead of the tier 2 GM's in that regard. You have to be on top of everything to be the best.

DoMeFavors
07-10-2017, 11:36 AM
Best management in NBA currently is Sean Marks and his staff, by far.
Crazy part is he is only 40 years old, we are going to have this guy in NBA for maybe 30 YEARS!

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-10-2017, 11:37 AM
Despite all the tanking I think almost everyone would say Hinkie is worlds better than Jackson as an executive.

Hinkie was great. People just get upset with him about the blatant, unapologetic tanking that went on. But what he did for the 76ers rebuild cannot be questioned. He made great trades and collected so many assets during his tenure. It was the smart play for that franchise. While the Knicks were signing guys like Rose and Noah, the 76ers were collecting assets and building for the future.

LA4life24/8
07-10-2017, 12:18 PM
Given time i think we honestly might be adding magic to this list. I know its a homer pick but so far (very small sample size) he (and palinkadink) have done a very good job.

I think if they are able to pull of a heist next summer and land 2 top fa ( long shot i know) he/they gotta be honorable mention.
Again i know im getting ahead of myself but based on what ive seen so far i think these 2 are very capable and are gonna have a good future

hugepatsfan
07-10-2017, 12:53 PM
Given time i think we honestly might be adding magic to this list. I know its a homer pick but so far (very small sample size) he (and palinkadink) have done a very good job.

I think if they are able to pull of a heist next summer and land 2 top fa ( long shot i know) he/they gotta be honorable mention.
Again i know im getting ahead of myself but based on what ive seen so far i think these 2 are very capable and are gonna have a good future

What exactly have they really done? They took who the majority of the NBA world though was the #2 player at #2. They did a salary dump deal. That's it. I just don't understand what they've done where anyone can say "good job".

I think a summer of relative inaction is the smart move so I don't fault them. But even if they sign 2 top FA next year, even that doesn't tell me much. Drawing a couple FAs to LA isn't exactly a crowning achievement.

They have some late 1sts/2nd rounder for us to judge them on and we'll see how they handle FA beyond the obvious "sign elite players". Those will give us insight to what type of GM skills they have.

LA4life24/8
07-10-2017, 01:54 PM
But thats exactly it about next years free agency that i think would put them up their when was the last time the lakers signed a big time free agent? Ill wait.

When was the last time any team signed TWO big free agentd in the same off season (not resigning their own players that doesnt count) miami (obviously) and before that?

If they can pull that off thatd be damn good. And itd have a lot to do with this salary dump (it was much more than a salary dump as they got rid of a guy no big name free agent is going to want to play w )

And they havent signed anyone to stupid contracts even though they have cap space so far their picks have looked pretty close to a homerun (again thru summer league i know)

I didnt say theyd be top 5 but honorable mention. I think thats pretty fair hypothetically speaking.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2017, 02:17 PM
Given time i think we honestly might be adding magic to this list. I know its a homer pick but so far (very small sample size) he (and palinkadink) have done a very good job.

I think if they are able to pull of a heist next summer and land 2 top fa ( long shot i know) he/they gotta be honorable mention.
Again i know im getting ahead of myself but based on what ive seen so far i think these 2 are very capable and are gonna have a good future

Magic has 0 wins as a GM.

warfelg
07-10-2017, 02:17 PM
I mean.....no they don't get credit for a player publicly announcing that they want to come to you.

Takes an idiot to make moves that would clog up the cap and make it so said player can't sign with you.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2017, 02:17 PM
What exactly have they really done? They took who the majority of the NBA world though was the #2 player at #2. They did a salary dump deal. That's it. I just don't understand what they've done where anyone can say "good job".

I think a summer of relative inaction is the smart move so I don't fault them. But even if they sign 2 top FA next year, even that doesn't tell me much. Drawing a couple FAs to LA isn't exactly a crowning achievement.

They have some late 1sts/2nd rounder for us to judge them on and we'll see how they handle FA beyond the obvious "sign elite players". Those will give us insight to what type of GM skills they have.

they didn't spend money they don't have. Amazing job

KG2TB
07-10-2017, 06:35 PM
Best management in NBA currently is Sean Marks and his staff, by far.
Crazy part is he is only 40 years old, we are going to have this guy in NBA for maybe 30 YEARS!

Best by far?

Please explain.

mike_noodles
07-11-2017, 09:45 AM
Ainge at 2? Has he drafted a single All Star?

Al Jefferson has been on an All NBA team, that's an equal honor I would say.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 11:20 AM
Al Jefferson has been on an All NBA team, that's an equal honor I would say.

Rajon Rondo was a great pick at where he was picked too. Four time all star.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 11:26 AM
Al Jefferson has been on an All NBA team, that's an equal honor I would say.

He moved on from drafting people named Green (Gerald, Orien, Jeff) which is something. Looking back very few of his picks matched their expectations.

warfelg
07-11-2017, 11:27 AM
He moved on from drafting people named Green (Gerald, Orien, Jeff) which is something. Looking back very few of his picks matched their expectations.

It's amazing how he gets a pass because a bunch of guys are "ok" for where they were drafted.

tp13baby
07-11-2017, 11:34 AM
There is probably only 4 executives here I take over Tim Connelly. This list isn't good.

koldjerky
07-11-2017, 11:38 AM
Didn't Magic and Co create those bad salaries anyway by signing Mozgov? Signing two big FA (one who's widely known wants to go to the Lakers regardless) does nothing when last off-season they struck out and signed two albatrosses.

If the later draft picks pan out and the cap can be managed better, maybe he moves up the ranks. Right now, he's picked the consensus top picks and gone chalk.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 11:57 AM
Didn't Magic and Co create those bad salaries anyway by signing Mozgov? Signing two big FA (one who's widely known wants to go to the Lakers regardless) does nothing when last off-season they struck out and signed two albatrosses.

If the later draft picks pan out and the cap can be managed better, maybe he moves up the ranks. Right now, he's picked the consensus top picks and gone chalk.

The albatrosses were the last regime.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 11:58 AM
It's amazing how he gets a pass because a bunch of guys are "ok" for where they were drafted.

But, but, but ... assets!

koldjerky
07-11-2017, 12:03 PM
The albatrosses were the last regime.

Ah, well I knew it was last year and figured Magic had some say in it not necessarily as the GM/Pres.

LA4life24/8
07-11-2017, 12:16 PM
We'll see i suppose. Give them time. The lakers were heading nowhere fast with jimmay and kupcake leading the way and now it looks like they could actually turn it around in the next few years. I guess thats not a good job though. Guess they are gonna have to win championships or get 0 credit.. how many teams have won a ship in this decade ? 4? So only 4 management regimes must have have done a good job then.

warfelg
07-11-2017, 12:17 PM
You don't get credit for a "good job" when they haven't played a real game under your leadership.

LA4life24/8
07-11-2017, 12:19 PM
Magic has 0 wins as a GM.

Well this list is nba executives... does executive just mean gm? Are those two terms exclusive to one another?
Magic has 0 wins as a gm he isnt the gm..

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 12:22 PM
It's amazing how he gets a pass because a bunch of guys are "ok" for where they were drafted.

Except he doesn't get a "pass". Look at his picks, where they were picked, and the value he's gotten. Don't let your hate blind you from reality. Here you go:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

LA4life24/8
07-11-2017, 12:22 PM
You don't get credit for a "good job" when they haven't played a real game under your leadership.

Well whatever then ill guess we'll see

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 12:25 PM
But, but, but ... assets!

Once again: #1 seed, signed an all-star, kept his assets. You're original post on this was classic too.


It's not about winning, it's about assets!

Like what lol. He just got the #1 seed and got better.

LA4life24/8
07-11-2017, 12:45 PM
Once again: #1 seed, signed an all-star, kept his assets. You're original post on this was classic too.



Like what lol. He just got the #1 seed and got better.

According to some posters im here signings drafting and trades dont matter. Its only about winning so ainge can be up there but not one of the best because he didnt win. Sorry

warfelg
07-11-2017, 12:47 PM
Except he doesn't get a "pass". Look at his picks, where they were picked, and the value he's gotten. Don't let your hate blind you from reality. Here you go:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

LOL it's not blind hate. If anything there's blind love coming from your side. Plenty of GM's draft ok to role players later on in the draft. Doesn't mean they are great GM's.

FOXHOUND
07-11-2017, 01:07 PM
If it wasn't for Billy King, the Celtics would be ****ed right now. Kudos to Ainge for ripping him off so badly, but all they have been building towards is thanks to that trade. Otherwise, they wouldn't be any different than a team like Toronto, a team paying a lot for non-superstar players with no real championship future in sight.

He hasn't even used those assets to acquire a more legit superstar and they've been on the market, all because he's too afraid to take a chance on any deal for his precious assets. Ainge is super overrated. Plenty good, but overrated.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 01:08 PM
Once again: #1 seed, signed an all-star, kept his assets. You're original post on this was classic too.

Like what lol. He just got the #1 seed and got better.

Eventually the moves have to turn into winning. Trader Dan has 1 title in what 15 years on the job? And that title is on the back of KG acquisition not draft picks. He's a good exec no doubt ... but lately he's built up a lot of pieces but the players have not really shone.

smith&wesson
07-11-2017, 01:18 PM
Pat Riley gotta be up there somewhere.

Greet
07-11-2017, 01:25 PM
I think a debate could be made for Sean Marks being top 7, but time will definitely tell.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-11-2017, 02:00 PM
If it wasn't for Billy King, the Celtics would be ****ed right now. Kudos to Ainge for ripping him off so badly, but all they have been building towards is thanks to that trade. Otherwise, they wouldn't be any different than a team like Toronto, a team paying a lot for non-superstar players with no real championship future in sight.

He hasn't even used those assets to acquire a more legit superstar and they've been on the market, all because he's too afraid to take a chance on any deal for his precious assets. Ainge is super overrated. Plenty good, but overrated.

How many of those players in the Brooklyn trade were impact players on the one seed in the east this past season?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-11-2017, 02:04 PM
Eventually the moves have to turn into winning. Trader Dan has 1 title in what 15 years on the job? And that title is on the back of KG acquisition not draft picks. He's a good exec no doubt ... but lately he's built up a lot of pieces but the players have not really shone.

Because those pieces have all been drafted within the last two years?

Hustla23
07-11-2017, 02:14 PM
If it wasn't for Billy King, the Celtics would be ****ed right now. Kudos to Ainge for ripping him off so badly, but all they have been building towards is thanks to that trade. Otherwise, they wouldn't be any different than a team like Toronto, a team paying a lot for non-superstar players with no real championship future in sight.

He hasn't even used those assets to acquire a more legit superstar and they've been on the market, all because he's too afraid to take a chance on any deal for his precious assets. Ainge is super overrated. Plenty good, but overrated.
He's not "afraid." He's just not stupid. The Celtics have the assets to trade for literally any player in the league barring anyone on GSW named Curry or Durant. You don't give up that sort of flexibility unless the odds are stacked in your favor.

They're not going to squander it on players that aren't going to put them over the top. Even if they somehow got both George and Butler, GSW would still stomp them out and Cleveland could feasibly be favorites even still.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 02:14 PM
LOL it's not blind hate. If anything there's blind love coming from your side. Plenty of GM's draft ok to role players later on in the draft. Doesn't mean they are great GM's.

Yes it is. That list shows he's been a good drafter. He's drafted busts just like every other GM but he's hit on plenty of mid-round picks.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 02:17 PM
Eventually the moves have to turn into winning. Trader Dan has 1 title in what 15 years on the job? And that title is on the back of KG acquisition not draft picks. He's a good exec no doubt ... but lately he's built up a lot of pieces but the players have not really shone.

He started with a team that wasn't very good. Pierce was that only really good player. He built a championship winning team and then he had to rebuild again. It took 4 years to go from terrible to #1 seed with several elite assets. He's a great GM.

Greet
07-11-2017, 02:41 PM
He started with a team that wasn't very good. Pierce was that only really good player. He built a championship winning team and then he had to rebuild again. It took 4 years to go from terrible to #1 seed with several elite assets. He's a great GM.

I would use the term elite asset a little more lightly.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 03:02 PM
I would use the term elite asset a little more lightly.

Two #3 picks and two more that will likely be top 5 aren't elite? Not sure what elite is anymore if it's not a top 3/5 pick.

FOXHOUND
07-11-2017, 03:04 PM
How many of those players in the Brooklyn trade were impact players on the one seed in the east this past season?

That's my point - they haven't paid off yet all that much. Which is fine, but without them they would be like the Raptors, a team paying a lot for non-superstars and ultimately can't compete with Cleveland. Marcus Smart is a RFA after this year and we've seen how those guys get paid (Tim Hardaway Jr hahaha :( ), so what is Ainge going to do next year? Splurge to keep both Isaiah and Smart when he's already paying Hayward and Horford $60M or lose Smart for little like he just did Bradley?

Paul George sounds like he's very open to staying in OKC if they're winning. Think he would have liked Boston as a perennial ECF or Finals team if LeBron goes west?

FOXHOUND
07-11-2017, 03:11 PM
He's not "afraid." He's just not stupid. The Celtics have the assets to trade for literally any player in the league barring anyone on GSW named Curry or Durant. You don't give up that sort of flexibility unless the odds are stacked in your favor.

They're not going to squander it on players that aren't going to put them over the top. Even if they somehow got both George and Butler, GSW would still stomp them out and Cleveland could feasibly be favorites even still.

Those assets get less valuable the second they are used in the draft, though. Marcus Smart is about to go bye bye in RFA or traded for relative peanuts like Nerlens Noel just was, so there goes one BK asset down the drain. OR they can keep him at the insane price tag that RFA demands, when combined with IT, Hayward and Horford will completely tie up their cap space for the near future.

He's taking the extremely safe path of being good enough to get stomped by Cleveland while using the BK picks to build up a future core at the same time in hopes of waiting Cleveland and Golden State out. I get it, but it's not all that great because there's hardly a guarantee that guys like Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum even become All-Stars, let alone All-NBA or superstar players. I like Brown and Tatum too, but by the time these guys are hitting their stride their current core pieces like Thomas and Horford will no longer be a big factor.

Brown now has to prove he can play SG effectively and Tatum has to prove he can play PF effectively alongside Hayward for their ideal future to even pan out.

hugepatsfan
07-11-2017, 03:34 PM
Those assets get less valuable the second they are used in the draft, though. Marcus Smart is about to go bye bye in RFA or traded for relative peanuts like Nerlens Noel just was, so there goes one BK asset down the drain. OR they can keep him at the insane price tag that RFA demands, when combined with IT, Hayward and Horford will completely tie up their cap space for the near future.

He's taking the extremely safe path of being good enough to get stomped by Cleveland while using the BK picks to build up a future core at the same time in hopes of waiting Cleveland and Golden State out. I get it, but it's not all that great because there's hardly a guarantee that guys like Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum even become All-Stars, let alone All-NBA or superstar players. I like Brown and Tatum too, but by the time these guys are hitting their stride their current core pieces like Thomas and Horford will no longer be a big factor.

Brown now has to prove he can play SG effectively and Tatum has to prove he can play PF effectively alongside Hayward for their ideal future to even pan out.

Marcus Smart was not drafted with a pick from the BRK trade. I also don't think he's due for "insane" price tag as an RFA. We;ll see but I'd say Andre Roberson's 3 year, $30M deal is the standard. That's basically non-taxpayer MLE money (it's like $1M higher in AAV). Also consider that even less teams will have cap next year as teams catch up to the spike. So I think Smart on MLE money is likely and reasonable, IMO, rather than insane.

Brown "broke through" in the reg. season last year when he started for AB at SG due to injury. So I'm not too concerned about his ability to play there. Defensively he was fine there last year and don't see why he wouldn't be as good or better this year. On offense, his ball handling was and still is a weakness but Hayward compensates for that much better than anyone we had last year. Horford as really a point forward playing Center helps there too.

Tatum does need to go to PF long-term but it's not an immediate need. By the end of the playoffs last year, Amir was out and Gerald Green was in the rotation. Our PF rotation last year came down to Crowder as a small ball 4 and Jonas Jerebko, along with the stretches of overlap where Horford/Olynyk were on the floor together. Right now, Crowder would project to play the same small ball 4 role as he did. Morris figures to replace Jerebko. Crowder is still Crowder and any weakness Morris has at the 4 isn't much worse than Jerebko, who is a natural PF but still a finesse guy himself at that spot. Horford will still play there next to a Center like Baynes for stretches. So while Tatum does ideally end up as a PF, it isn't an immediate need for him to transition there now. Basically he'll just play forward and be matched up defensively on the weaker option, be it a SF or PF.

Gibby23
07-11-2017, 03:38 PM
Didn't Magic and Co create those bad salaries anyway by signing Mozgov? Signing two big FA (one who's widely known wants to go to the Lakers regardless) does nothing when last off-season they struck out and signed two albatrosses.

If the later draft picks pan out and the cap can be managed better, maybe he moves up the ranks. Right now, he's picked the consensus top picks and gone chalk.

So you choose to comment and take a jab but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about? Good job.

Gibby23
07-11-2017, 03:40 PM
Riley is better than Ainge.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 03:55 PM
That's my point - they haven't paid off yet all that much. Which is fine, but without them they would be like the Raptors, a team paying a lot for non-superstars and ultimately can't compete with Cleveland. Marcus Smart is a RFA after this year and we've seen how those guys get paid (Tim Hardaway Jr hahaha :( ), so what is Ainge going to do next year? Splurge to keep both Isaiah and Smart when he's already paying Hayward and Horford $60M or lose Smart for little like he just did Bradley?

Paul George sounds like he's very open to staying in OKC if they're winning. Think he would have liked Boston as a perennial ECF or Finals team if LeBron goes west?

Meaning the team is already this good and we haven't even seen the impact from the Nets picks yet.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 04:01 PM
Because those pieces have all been drafted within the last two years?

No? I don't get your point.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 04:04 PM
No? I don't get your point.

"Lately he's built up a lot of pieces but the players have not really shone."

Brown is 20, Tatum is 19, and they have the Nets pick next year too. Of course the players haven't shown, they just got drafted.

FOXHOUND
07-11-2017, 04:09 PM
Marcus Smart was not drafted with a pick from the BRK trade. I also don't think he's due for "insane" price tag as an RFA. We;ll see but I'd say Andre Roberson's 3 year, $30M deal is the standard. That's basically non-taxpayer MLE money (it's like $1M higher in AAV). Also consider that even less teams will have cap next year as teams catch up to the spike. So I think Smart on MLE money is likely and reasonable, IMO, rather than insane.

Brown "broke through" in the reg. season last year when he started for AB at SG due to injury. So I'm not too concerned about his ability to play there. Defensively he was fine there last year and don't see why he wouldn't be as good or better this year. On offense, his ball handling was and still is a weakness but Hayward compensates for that much better than anyone we had last year. Horford as really a point forward playing Center helps there too.

Tatum does need to go to PF long-term but it's not an immediate need. By the end of the playoffs last year, Amir was out and Gerald Green was in the rotation. Our PF rotation last year came down to Crowder as a small ball 4 and Jonas Jerebko, along with the stretches of overlap where Horford/Olynyk were on the floor together. Right now, Crowder would project to play the same small ball 4 role as he did. Morris figures to replace Jerebko. Crowder is still Crowder and any weakness Morris has at the 4 isn't much worse than Jerebko, who is a natural PF but still a finesse guy himself at that spot. Horford will still play there next to a Center like Baynes for stretches. So while Tatum does ideally end up as a PF, it isn't an immediate need for him to transition there now. Basically he'll just play forward and be matched up defensively on the weaker option, be it a SF or PF.

Oh god you're right, the first BK picks was #17 James Young haha. I'll say this, if the Knicks move Melo or stretch him and create a nice chunk of change next offseason then you better watch out for Smart in RFA. Or, you know, there's always the Nets and their load of cash. :laugh2:

For Brown and Tatum, I'm talking more long term. Short term, they're absolutely fine as role players off the bench with dual position versatility. I completely agree with that. It's the long term when ideally they would be All-Stars/All-NBA players and obviously starters. With Hayward they need to now do that at SG and PF when both are probably far more ideal at SF, to be their best.

By that time Isaiah will be past 30 and at his size likely not very effective anymore. That's if they even "bring the brinks truck" for him in FA, with that in mind. Horford will be in his mid-30's and possibly not even starting anymore.

Like I said, I think he's plenty good, but I'm just not sold on the job he's done lately as much as some people. I get that he's playing the long game, but when guys like Butler and George are available in their prime for as cheap as they were and you don't strike with such an absurd amount of assets then all that is telling me is that you never will.

The opportunities to make the Finals are few and far between. I get that GS is this dominant force but they're not exactly a team full of 33 year olds either. They're not really going anywhere and odds are guys like Durant and Curry at age 32 and 33 (aka, in 4 years) are still going to be clearly better than guys like Tatum and Brown will be at age 23 and 24. If they have any major injuries and/or another team wins a Finals in the near future regardless of circumstance then it's going to feel really ****** knowing that it could have been Boston, if Ainge were more aggressive.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 04:41 PM
"Lately he's built up a lot of pieces but the players have not really shone."

Brown is 20, Tatum is 19, and they have the Nets pick next year too. Of course the players haven't shown, they just got drafted.

Ainge has been running the draft a lot longer than the last 2 years. I generally think you need to give a player at least 2 full seasons before you can tell what they might be. The 3 best players on the Celtics at the moment were not drafted by the Celtics.

I would say Ainge's greatest strength is somehow screwing other GMs out of too much value in trades.

I have never said he's a bad GM, and I support a lot of his "safe" moves, but much like my issue with Hinkie, sometimes it seems he values assets over building a team and over winning games now.

Green_Monster
07-11-2017, 04:46 PM
Ainge has been running the draft a lot longer than the last 2 years. I generally think you need to give a player at least 2 full seasons before you can tell what they might be. The 3 best players on the Celtics at the moment were not drafted by the Celtics.

I would say Ainge's greatest strength is somehow screwing other GMs out of too much value in trades.

I have never said he's a bad GM, and I support a lot of his "safe" moves, but much like my issue with Hinkie, sometimes it seems he values assets over building a team and over winning games now.

Not really sure what you're getting at then. Yeah, he's drafted since he got here. But the pieces you seemed to be referring to haven't really had a chance to play yet.

hugepatsfan
07-11-2017, 05:14 PM
Oh god you're right, the first BK picks was #17 James Young haha. I'll say this, if the Knicks move Melo or stretch him and create a nice chunk of change next offseason then you better watch out for Smart in RFA. Or, you know, there's always the Nets and their load of cash. :laugh2:

For Brown and Tatum, I'm talking more long term. Short term, they're absolutely fine as role players off the bench with dual position versatility. I completely agree with that. It's the long term when ideally they would be All-Stars/All-NBA players and obviously starters. With Hayward they need to now do that at SG and PF when both are probably far more ideal at SF, to be their best.

By that time Isaiah will be past 30 and at his size likely not very effective anymore. That's if they even "bring the brinks truck" for him in FA, with that in mind. Horford will be in his mid-30's and possibly not even starting anymore.

Like I said, I think he's plenty good, but I'm just not sold on the job he's done lately as much as some people. I get that he's playing the long game, but when guys like Butler and George are available in their prime for as cheap as they were and you don't strike with such an absurd amount of assets then all that is telling me is that you never will.

The opportunities to make the Finals are few and far between. I get that GS is this dominant force but they're not exactly a team full of 33 year olds either. They're not really going anywhere and odds are guys like Durant and Curry at age 32 and 33 (aka, in 4 years) are still going to be clearly better than guys like Tatum and Brown will be at age 23 and 24. If they have any major injuries and/or another team wins a Finals in the near future regardless of circumstance then it's going to feel really ****** knowing that it could have been Boston, if Ainge were more aggressive.

I don't disagree with your larger point. I think there's an argument for and against the conservative approach vs. the aggressive one. Both are backed by super sound logic. Obviously if the path he's chosen works he'll be looked at as a genius. If it fails, people will say he flopped (though people will exaggerate the assumption that the aggressive path would have worked just because the conservative one didn't even though both of them could very well fail).

I disagree with you on Butler. To beat MIN's offer we'd had to have offered #3 and Brown. Two top 3 picks for a player is not cheap. I support 1 million % not doing that trade for a player that doesn't get you by CLE/GS by reasonable estimations if healthy. Sure they could break up or get hurt but that's what you want to mortgage good future chips for? I do it to an extent but two top 3 picks is past that extent.

PG I wish was in Boston right now. What Ainge offered is better than OKC but if they wanted a premium to bend over for an Eastern Conf. team I'd have offered the lower of BRK/LAL picks. If they wanted more than that I'd pass. I know PG says he'd stay in OKC but the day before he told IND he wanted out he said he wanted to be in IND. So I don't put much weight in his words. Not a risk I'm willing to take with super premium assets.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 05:21 PM
Not really sure what you're getting at then. Yeah, he's drafted since he got here. But the pieces you seemed to be referring to haven't really had a chance to play yet.

I did say "recently" but really meant more than the last couple drafts. In the last 3 drafts Ainge drafted 16 players for a 15 player roster ... does that make sense? In the 7 years before that there is 1 player still on the team, and he's been mostly "okay" (Smart). They have 3 first round picks next year, 4 the year after than, and 2 the year after that. That's a lot of assets, but what is the point if they are not traded in aggregate to get a better veteran player or a better draft pick and are just used for an already overfull roster?

Ainge has not been special in his drafts. Does anyone disagree?

LA4life24/8
07-11-2017, 05:22 PM
So you choose to comment and take a jab but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about? Good job.

Lol i laughed a little. I was making egregious statement in the nba forum lakers related and the laker haters rallied. Oh well. Im not worried about it. Magic and palinkadink have done and will continue to do a solid job

hugepatsfan
07-11-2017, 05:34 PM
I did say "recently" but really meant more than the last couple drafts. In the last 3 drafts Ainge drafted 16 players for a 15 player roster ... does that make sense? In the 7 years before that there is 1 player still on the team, and he's been mostly "okay" (Smart). They have 3 first round picks next year, 4 the year after than, and 2 the year after that. That's a lot of assets, but what is the point if they are not traded in aggregate to get a better veteran player or a better draft pick and are just used for an already overfull roster?

Ainge has not been special in his drafts. Does anyone disagree?

Ainge has drafted pretty well IMO. His "problem" is no HUGE homeruns. Olynyk at #14 was a "good" pick - Giannis would have been great. A fair amount of that in Ainge's draft history.

Typically he drafts late so you need to keep that in mind. Guys like Perkins, Tony Allen, etc. don't jump off the page but guys like that are very good picks for where he got them.

Like I said though, he needs to hit a few more homeruns. His big hits are Rondo and Al Jeff. It'd be nice if a few times instead of getting the good, very good or even great value for his pick he got a guy that just far and away goes way beyond what you could ever realistically expect from that pick - Curry at #7, Draymond at #35, Giannis at #15, Kawhi at #14, etc. That's my biggest criticism of Ainge's drafting. I guess you could say I don't have an issue with who he has drafted for the most part, but more who he hasn't, if that makes sense.

Hustla23
07-11-2017, 06:36 PM
Those assets get less valuable the second they are used in the draft, though. Marcus Smart is about to go bye bye in RFA or traded for relative peanuts like Nerlens Noel just was, so there goes one BK asset down the drain. OR they can keep him at the insane price tag that RFA demands, when combined with IT, Hayward and Horford will completely tie up their cap space for the near future.

He's taking the extremely safe path of being good enough to get stomped by Cleveland while using the BK picks to build up a future core at the same time in hopes of waiting Cleveland and Golden State out. I get it, but it's not all that great because there's hardly a guarantee that guys like Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum even become All-Stars, let alone All-NBA or superstar players. I like Brown and Tatum too, but by the time these guys are hitting their stride their current core pieces like Thomas and Horford will no longer be a big factor.

Brown now has to prove he can play SG effectively and Tatum has to prove he can play PF effectively alongside Hayward for their ideal future to even pan out.

Not necessarily. A draft pick can become more or less valuable. You wouldn't value Anthony Bennett as much as a stand alone #1 pick but you'd probably value Anthony Davis greater than a stand alone #1 pick. I think Tatum has a better chance of falling into the latter category.

I don't think he's taking the "safe" path, but rather a path that requires actual critical thinking and accurate evaluation of the team's situation.

The Knicks blindly went all in on Melo when the team wasn't nearly close to being a suitable destination for him in terms of constructing a real contender. So what happened, they lost nearly a decade because of that. Boston isn't trying to fall into the same trap. Until someone like A.D. or Kawhi becomes available I think they're right to stand pat.

And besides, worst comes to worst, they can just sell off whoever is in the main rotation and build a super youth core that rivals Philly. The Celtics are in a fantastic position and can really dictate what they want to do, there's no external pressure that's coercing them to reflexively make moves as other franchises are apt to do.

Scoots
07-11-2017, 07:27 PM
Ainge has drafted pretty well IMO. His "problem" is no HUGE homeruns. Olynyk at #14 was a "good" pick - Giannis would have been great. A fair amount of that in Ainge's draft history.

Typically he drafts late so you need to keep that in mind. Guys like Perkins, Tony Allen, etc. don't jump off the page but guys like that are very good picks for where he got them.

Like I said though, he needs to hit a few more homeruns. His big hits are Rondo and Al Jeff. It'd be nice if a few times instead of getting the good, very good or even great value for his pick he got a guy that just far and away goes way beyond what you could ever realistically expect from that pick - Curry at #7, Draymond at #35, Giannis at #15, Kawhi at #14, etc. That's my biggest criticism of Ainge's drafting. I guess you could say I don't have an issue with who he has drafted for the most part, but more who he hasn't, if that makes sense.

I agree. He makes it a little worse in that he's perfectly willing to move the guys who were his best draft picks to get future picks or players he thinks might fit better ... but those moves sometimes look like moves to make moves rather than with a specific goal. The last 2 years he's really spent a lot more capital than in the past so we'll just have to continue to wait and see.

koldjerky
07-11-2017, 08:20 PM
So you choose to comment and take a jab but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about? Good job.

So magic had absolutely nothing to do with it? Hmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gibby23
07-11-2017, 08:28 PM
So magic had absolutely nothing to do with it? Hmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are you even talking about? No, he didn't work there last off season.

Unless you have a link or something, you probably should let it go because you are wrong.

Keep going if you wish.