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View Full Version : Carroll to Brooklyn



KB24PG16
07-09-2017, 12:47 AM
883909395184316416

NYKnickFanatic
07-09-2017, 12:55 AM
Idk what his contract looks like but at least they got picks out of it.

bucketss
07-09-2017, 12:58 AM
Idk what his contract looks like but at least they got picks out of it.

14.8, 15.4 next two years.

WaDe03
07-09-2017, 12:58 AM
So the Raptors have got to be making some signings now correct? How much cap do they have? Wonder if they try to get KCP or someone, not sure who's left out there worth that money.

KB24PG16
07-09-2017, 01:06 AM
So the Raptors have got to be making some signings now correct? How much cap do they have? Wonder if they try to get KCP or someone, not sure who's left out there worth that money.

I'm pretty sure they're capped out still, probably just didnt want that luxury tax bill

WaDe03
07-09-2017, 01:06 AM
I'm pretty sure they're capped out still, probably just didnt want that luxury tax bill

So they've lost Tucker and Carroll and may or may not still have Joseph on the trade block. Haven't brought anyone in to my knowledge so it's definitely looking like they got a little worse.

bucketss
07-09-2017, 01:11 AM
So they've lost Tucker and Carroll and may or may not still have Joseph on the trade block. Haven't brought anyone in to my knowledge so it's definitely looking like they got a little worse.

carrol is absolute garbage.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 01:13 AM
This was a salary dump to avoid tax. The picks did not have much value to the Raptors, so it was a price Masai was willing to pay to save some money.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2017, 01:38 AM
Carroll sucked but hopefully they get another SF here fast. We are desperate for SF/PF guys right now.

GREATNESS ONE
07-09-2017, 02:19 AM
"We" :p

Raps18-19 Champ
07-09-2017, 02:29 AM
It's like being half black and white. I can say "we" no matter what.

GREATNESS ONE
07-09-2017, 02:34 AM
Lol idc I just laughed. Sheesh don't get so defensive!

Eagles4Lyfe
07-09-2017, 02:48 AM
Man Jae Crowder would be blessed to have but Cs won't trade him to us :(

Saddletramp
07-09-2017, 06:33 AM
Carrol bounced around and had some nice seasons with Atlanta, suckered Toronto into a nice salary and then went to ****. Perfect "Play Till You Get Paid" story.

Jamiecballer
07-09-2017, 08:21 AM
Yay!

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Jamiecballer
07-09-2017, 08:23 AM
I think it was more play till you have a serious injury/find the absolute worst team for your contributions but either way it was bad

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MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-09-2017, 08:52 AM
KCP not in the plans now?

pebloemer
07-09-2017, 09:25 AM
So the Raptors have got to be making some signings now correct? How much cap do they have? Wonder if they try to get KCP or someone, not sure who's left out there worth that money.

Doesn't give them cap space. Gets them below the apron which can free up a bigger MLE. Also gives them a 10.8 million TPE to acquire salary in a non-simultaneous deal.

WaDe03
07-09-2017, 10:21 AM
Forgot they lost Patterson too.

So the same team minus Tucker, Carroll, and Patterson. Huge hit to their depth.

Oakmont_4
07-09-2017, 10:22 AM
Man Jae Crowder would be blessed to have but Cs won't trade him to us :(

We'd trade him to you, you just won't like the price it'll take to get him

Dade County
07-09-2017, 10:49 AM
Yes...because theres no netter book of science than the bible. Good argument lol.

Not arguing. Just passing on info.

Think about a seed being planted in different soils all over the Earth.

GodsSon
07-09-2017, 11:32 AM
Via WOJ...

"The signing of Carroll was a free-agent coup for the Raptors in the summer of 2015, but injuries limited him to 26 games in his first season with the team. Toronto is still interested in becoming active in free agency this summer, according to league sources."

CJ Miles for the MLE would be alright.

Shooting on the wings is our main priority.

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 11:34 AM
This was a salary dump to avoid tax. The picks did not have much value to the Raptors, so it was a price Masai was willing to pay to save some money.

Lol. First round picks have not much value. Only said by fans of teams who trade them away for nada.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 11:39 AM
Lol. First round picks have not much value. Only said by fans of teams who trade them away for nada.

They are late picks man. I don't think the Raptors are in a position to be drafting niche players or long term projects when they are up against the tax or potentially above it.

They are in win now mode for the next two or three yrs.

You never want to lose picks for nothing but they have no choice, unless you want to go with what they have now?

Scoots
07-09-2017, 11:46 AM
He's far from garbage ... he's just not worth the money he's being paid.

R. Johnson#3
07-09-2017, 11:46 AM
I think it was more play till you have a serious injury/find the absolute worst team for your contributions but either way it was bad

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Pretty much. A 3&D player who has absolutely no ability to create a shot for himself was playing in an iso heavy offence with little to no ball movement. I hope DeMarre gets a chance to prove himself.

NYKnickFanatic
07-09-2017, 11:55 AM
Carroll sucked but hopefully they get another SF here fast. We are desperate for SF/PF guys right now.

Do you have the cap to make a move for KCP?

aman_13
07-09-2017, 12:26 PM
Do you have the cap to make a move for KCP?

They don't. They can sign him for the full MLE but I doubt he accepts that.

LeonFSU
07-09-2017, 12:36 PM
Do the Nets still have cap room for KCP?

aman_13
07-09-2017, 12:40 PM
Do the Nets still have cap room for KCP?

They do.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 12:41 PM
Still, worth a lot more than people are saying. I get why it had to be done, but that doesn't make it a good trade. Consider me in the camp that thinks Marks got one up on Masai here.

Yeah I'm hoping Masai has something up his sleeve. He didn't win this trade by any means.

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 12:42 PM
They are late picks man. I don't think the Raptors are in a position to be drafting niche players or long term projects when they are up against the tax or potentially above it.

They are in win now mode for the next two or three yrs.

You never want to lose picks for nothing but they have no choice, unless you want to go with what they have now?

Still, worth a lot more than people are saying. I get why it had to be done, but that doesn't make it a good trade. Consider me in the camp that thinks Marks got one up on Masai here.

smith&wesson
07-09-2017, 12:51 PM
Depends on what MU does with tpe or the mle

hugepatsfan
07-09-2017, 12:54 PM
I like what Brooklyn has done this offseason. Took on a couple bad deals but added some young assets with Russell and picks.

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 01:09 PM
Depends on what MU does with tpe or the mle

You're not getting a player that puts you into the top 2 of the East with either of those. I know you wouldn't with the pick either, but there's better use for it. This is an especially ugly trade for me because he put himself into this cap situation knowing full well what the ramifications were.

Vee-Rex
07-09-2017, 01:11 PM
Carroll was a bad fit - he benefits from motion-heavy offenses since he's a good cutter and has a good BBIQ. Toronto allows DeRozan to hold the ball for their entire offensive possession.

Don't like this deal for the Raptors. Losing more assets (even late 1st rounders aren't something you wanna give away) is never good, especially if you're not acquiring talent that could put you in contention status. You can't just throw late 1st rounders away. If you don't think you'll draft a quality player it could at least be paired with other picks for a more mega-deal. Also, why throw away picks just to give DC away when he only has two years left on his contract? Might as well keep him for one more year and then he has value as a huge expiring that teams might want to trade for.

Over the last 5 months Toronto has lost:

Terrence Ross
2 1st round picks
3 second round picks
Patrick Patterson
Demarre Carroll (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
Jared Sullinger (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
PJ Tucker

and the only thing they have to show for it is Serge Ibaka making nearly 22 million a year now?

Wow. I imagine some combination of all those assets could've acquired Demarcus Cousins.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Carroll was a bad fit - he benefits from motion-heavy offenses since he's a good cutter and has a good BBIQ. Toronto allows DeRozan to hold the ball for their entire offensive possession.

Don't like this deal for the Raptors. Losing more assets (even late 1st rounders aren't something you wanna give away) is never good, especially if you're not acquiring talent that could put you in contention status. You can't just throw late 1st rounders away. If you don't think you'll draft a quality player it could at least be paired with other picks for a more mega-deal. Also, why throw away picks just to give DC away when he only has two years left on his contract? Might as well keep him for one more year and then he has value as a huge expiring that teams might want to trade for.

Over the last 5 months Toronto has lost:

Terrence Ross
2 1st round picks
3 second round picks
Patrick Patterson
Demarre Carroll (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
Jared Sullinger (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
PJ Tucker

and the only thing they have to show for it is Serge Ibaka making nearly 22 million a year now?

Wow. I imagine some combination of all those assets could've acquired Demarcus Cousins.

The Raptors had to shed salary to get below the apron. If they did not dump salary, they weren't going to be able to add anyone. It's not Ideal to give up picks but Masai didn't have much of an option.

And yeah losing Patterson and Tucker is tough.

Btw painting it like that is kind of unfair. The Ibaka trade was a good one for the Raptors. A first and Ross is fair value.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 01:27 PM
Carroll can't guard anyone. Isn't a good finisher at the rim and is very streaky shooting the ball. He end up being benched in the final game of the playoffs. Shedding that salary was going to be costly.

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 02:23 PM
Carroll can't guard anyone. Isn't a good finisher at the rim and is very streaky shooting the ball. He end up being benched in the final game of the playoffs. Shedding that salary was going to be costly.

But the FO shouldn't be applauded for making the deal, we should be questioning how it got to the point where you were so handcuffed you had to give up two picks just to get a little bit of breathing room. I honestly would have preffered that they dump JV without giving up anything and just eat the Carrol contract.

aman_13
07-09-2017, 02:35 PM
But the FO shouldn't be applauded for making the deal, we should be questioning how it got to the point where you were so handcuffed you had to give up two picks just to get a little bit of breathing room. I honestly would have preffered that they dump JV without giving up anything and just eat the Carrol contract.

No arguments here. I'm certainly not applauding him for it, just embracing the reality of the situation. It's very difficult to dump a bad contract so he end up giving picks. Again not ideal, but not crippling in any light either.

hugepatsfan
07-09-2017, 02:50 PM
Carroll was a bad fit - he benefits from motion-heavy offenses since he's a good cutter and has a good BBIQ. Toronto allows DeRozan to hold the ball for their entire offensive possession.

Don't like this deal for the Raptors. Losing more assets (even late 1st rounders aren't something you wanna give away) is never good, especially if you're not acquiring talent that could put you in contention status. You can't just throw late 1st rounders away. If you don't think you'll draft a quality player it could at least be paired with other picks for a more mega-deal. Also, why throw away picks just to give DC away when he only has two years left on his contract? Might as well keep him for one more year and then he has value as a huge expiring that teams might want to trade for.

Over the last 5 months Toronto has lost:

Terrence Ross
2 1st round picks
3 second round picks
Patrick Patterson
Demarre Carroll (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
Jared Sullinger (yes, I realize Raps fans hated him)
PJ Tucker

and the only thing they have to show for it is Serge Ibaka making nearly 22 million a year now?

Wow. I imagine some combination of all those assets could've acquired Demarcus Cousins.

Could not get Cousins with that. SAC got Hield and another top 10 lottery pick. That collective junk is not even close to two legit trade pieces like that.

CELTICS4LYFE
07-09-2017, 03:25 PM
Does this lift them from the basement of the east?? Brooklyn def improved while INDY/CHI/ATL all plummeted

hugepatsfan
07-09-2017, 04:23 PM
Does this lift them from the basement of the east?? Brooklyn def improved while INDY/CHI/ATL all plummeted

Brooklyn lose their best player in Lopez. They've added Mozgov, Carrol and Russell. The first two are garbage and the third is a talented youngster but not someone who figures to impact winning.

CHI honestly may have dipped below but IND defitelynnot with the (stupid) win-now pieces they added. Never know what can happen but on paper BRK is still trash.

Vee-Rex
07-09-2017, 04:24 PM
Could not get Cousins with that. SAC got Hield and another top 10 lottery pick. That collective junk is not even close to two legit trade pieces like that.

I think if it's a combination of Ross + JV + multiple picks (4 total), it would have gotten the ear of someone like Vlade. Not to mention Toronto has more assets than that.

The sad state of the East is due to multiple GMs having poor forethought and direction. Sure, getting Ibaka and Tucker seemed like good deals at the time. But fast forward 5 months later:

1. Both had contracts that were about to end.
2. Both wouldn't put them anywhere near the Cavs level.
3. Multiple draft picks were involved - don't wanna mortgage the future unless it makes you a contender.
4. The trade made it harder to blow it up because you sacrificed assets to get where you are. Why let Ibaka walk? And if you're gonna sign Ibaka then you gotta sign Lowry.

Casey is still the coach and nothing (at least not yet) has been done about JV and his inability to fit.

I'm not trying to pick on Toronto but where's the direction?

eDush
07-09-2017, 04:28 PM
Does this lift them from the basement of the east?? Brooklyn def improved while INDY/CHI/ATL all plummetedBy getting Carroll? :no:

Vee-Rex
07-09-2017, 04:28 PM
And let me add this: if anyone thinks those assets would be too much for Cousins then FINE. I only suggested it because I'm of the mind that your direction has to be to get to contender status or acquire assets that will help you reach that.

Trading away picks and assets to be a treadmill team at best and a 2nd round exit isn't gonna help. Lowry is not a young buck.

TrueFan420
07-09-2017, 06:10 PM
By getting Carroll? :no:

They improved by adding picks (even late ones) and Russell. Eating Carroll and Mozgovs contracts mean nothing. They're gonna be bad for a while. No one will sign. Getting young talent and picks is a big improvement for their outlook.

MJNetsIsles
07-09-2017, 08:40 PM
Take on bad contracts.
Add draft picks.
I dig it!

MJNetsIsles
07-09-2017, 08:42 PM
The Nets aren't going anywhere with Mozgov and Carroll under contract. It makes all the sense in the world to rebuild taking D'Angelo Russell and draft picks in trades.

MJNetsIsles
07-09-2017, 08:42 PM
They improved by adding picks (even late ones) and Russell. Eating Carroll and Mozgovs contracts mean nothing. They're gonna be bad for a while. No one will sign. Getting young talent and picks is a big improvement for their outlook.

Correct

mike_noodles
07-09-2017, 09:01 PM
No arguments here. I'm certainly not applauding him for it, just embracing the reality of the situation. It's very difficult to dump a bad contract so he end up giving picks. Again not ideal, but not crippling in any light either.

I'm just a little frustrated with it, I love the draft and the excitement it brings. Having zero picks cuts me deep.

Scoots
07-09-2017, 09:10 PM
I'm just a little frustrated with it, I love the draft and the excitement it brings. Having zero picks cuts me deep.

I hate that too. Luckily for me the Warriors have been able to buy picks and all of the first round picks they traded away are past now, so they have their future picks now.

ewing
07-10-2017, 08:21 AM
Take on bad contracts.
Add draft picks.
I dig it!

At 15 a year for 2 years its not even really a bad contract. Dude didn't fit well in Tor. So long as he is healthy he will be a good stop gag starter while you rebuild.

CELTICS4LYFE
07-10-2017, 08:55 AM
Brooklyn lose their best player in Lopez. They've added Mozgov, Carrol and Russell. The first two are garbage and the third is a talented youngster but not someone who figures to impact winning.

CHI honestly may have dipped below but IND defitelynnot with the (stupid) win-now pieces they added. Never know what can happen but on paper BRK is still trash.

Lin/Dlo/Carrol/RHJ/Mozgov > Lin/Lopez....who ever else started for them last year lmao

IMO with today's NBA Lopez wasn't a huge loss...they have better wings now and can match up better with other teams. BTW remember my original statement was "does this lift them from the basement?" Not "will they be good?" Lol

Cal827
07-11-2017, 11:30 AM
I think if it's a combination of Ross + JV + multiple picks (4 total), it would have gotten the ear of someone like Vlade. Not to mention Toronto has more assets than that.

The sad state of the East is due to multiple GMs having poor forethought and direction. Sure, getting Ibaka and Tucker seemed like good deals at the time. But fast forward 5 months later:

1. Both had contracts that were about to end.
2. Both wouldn't put them anywhere near the Cavs level.
3. Multiple draft picks were involved - don't wanna mortgage the future unless it makes you a contender.
4. The trade made it harder to blow it up because you sacrificed assets to get where you are. Why let Ibaka walk? And if you're gonna sign Ibaka then you gotta sign Lowry.

Casey is still the coach and nothing (at least not yet) has been done about JV and his inability to fit.

I'm not trying to pick on Toronto but where's the direction?


1000x this. I'm looking at how Indiana handled the PG case, first by leaking that he wanted out, then passing on the Randle/Clarkson/1sts or the Boston picks offer and trading him to OKC, out of spite. Why focus on your future by acquire a bunch of picks, or by setting up a Randle/Turner front court, when you can acquire a decent player who's gonna cost you more to keep him this season than it would've been to hold onto your star player.... They must think Sabonis can become another Porzingis :laugh2:

Anyways onto the Raptors, for the most part, I agree with your points, but I do think that Ibaka/Tucker should have at least made it a competitive series. I still expected the Cavs to win, but I thought it would be a 6-7 game series, not the abomination that we got to see last May.

I think that the big issue was (as Carroll mentioned) was the team consistently playing hero ball or Iso ball. Watching the playoffs, there were many cases where Lowry and Derozan (he was playing pretty well at least), would just seem to shun off the other players on the team and try to score, or pass off at the very last second. That flat out killed them vs Cleveland, and there were points vs the Bucks where it nearly doomed the team. In particular Game 6; the Raptors were up by 25 points at the time where they seemed to be distributing the ball more, but then basically stopped and the Bucks came all the way back and almost won the game. Lowry would constantly come up the court, try to do something by himself, then when he was blocked would try to throw the ball to a teammate (doesn't work too well when the Bucks team are basically 6-8 and higher haha). We were lucky to escape the Bucks, a team where we should've handled relatively easily. It was like that last year vs the Pacers, where George basically one-manned the team into a 7 game series.

As Coach, Casey has to be able to properly adjust the offense when it's not working properly. That includes the stars. It's really unfortunate how JV didn't get more touches in the offense, especially after last playoffs, where he had showed up Whiteside before he got injured. I don't think he did enough this season to keep his job; we regressed. I understand that we ended up with the Cavs in the 2nd round, but there's losing a hard fought series, then there's losing by like 20+ in 3 games of a sweep. For Lebron James, Casey kept Powell (a 6-4 200lb guard) on him for extended periods of time on a man to man defense. Powell is 5 inches and about 60 pounds less than Lebron. Tucker and Patterson were probably the best options we had to defend him; not saying it would work since Lebron's an NBA god, but we don't need to make his path easier :laugh2:


With how bad the East is; the Raptors are basically guaranteed to make the playoffs :laugh2:.. Maybe this is the year where management realizes that we're going nowhere with Casey after another early playoff exit, and gets rid of him. Derozan/Lowry/Ibaka all have 3 years on their deals; don't think they waste another year if Casey comes up short again, and maybe the next coach will actually develop a post game on the offense. I can imagine how frustrated Gasol would've been if he had opted to sign here over San Antonio :laugh2: