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View Full Version : Mike D'Antoni has two COY awards



JasonJohnHorn
07-06-2017, 12:54 AM
Mike 'Antoni has two COY awards.

To put this in perspective, that is twice as many as Phil Jackson has, and two more than Jerry Sloan has.

He has as many as Jackson, Red Auerbach, Jerry Sloan, Rudy Tomjanovich, and Chuck Daly combined.

I gotta say... with guys like Sam Mitchell, getting an award and Daly and Sloan never getting one... this is likely the most f'd award out there.

Lakers + Giants
07-06-2017, 01:10 AM
It's not really COY, it's Most Over Achieving Team award.

It almost always goes to the coach of the team that did much better than expected.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 01:34 AM
It's not really COY, it's Most Over Achieving Team award.

It almost always goes to the coach of the team that did much better than expected.

Exactly. Even Mike Brown has one. It's a joke award. D'antoni is a terrible coach. Disregards defense, runs his players into the ground. It's why no matter how many wins his team gets Pop destroys his *** in the playoffs.

Two coach of the years? ******* that award.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2017, 01:36 AM
Not a mike D guy but even i cant say bad coach at this point... the dude perfected a system and it works against the majority of teams.

TrueFan420
07-06-2017, 01:45 AM
Exactly. Even Mike Brown has one. It's a joke award. D'antoni is a terrible coach. Disregards defense, runs his players into the ground. It's why no matter how many wins his team gets Pop destroys his *** in the playoffs.

Two coach of the years? ******* that award.
He's not a terrible but yes the award is kind of a joke.

JWorthy42
07-06-2017, 01:45 AM
The essence of the system that D'Antoni has been preaching for the past 15 years is literally what the modern NBA diverted to. Can't just brush off the guy and call him a failure.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 01:46 AM
Not a mike D guy but even i cant say bad coach at this point... the dude perfected a system and it works against the majority of teams.

Until the playoffs when it completely falls apart.

JWorthy42
07-06-2017, 01:46 AM
Exactly. Even Mike Brown has one. It's a joke award. D'antoni is a terrible coach. Disregards defense, runs his players into the ground. It's why no matter how many wins his team gets Pop destroys his *** in the playoffs.

Two coach of the years? ******* that award.

No, the reason he gets destroyed by Pop every year is the same reason the majority of coaches in the West get destroyed by Pop every year. Pop is a legend, and is an All Time Great Coach.

valade16
07-06-2017, 01:56 AM
How many times has D'Antoni faced Pop in the playoffs where his team was as talented or more than Pop's?

LOb0
07-06-2017, 01:57 AM
No, the reason he gets destroyed by Pop every year is the same reason the majority of coaches in the West get destroyed by Pop every year. Pop is a legend, and is an All Time Great Coach.

And D'antoni's system is horribly flawed. Even those #1 seed Suns teams that were super talented were never going to win with that system.

You cannot run your players into the ground (He basically ended Kobe's career) play no defense and expect to win a title.

KnicksorBust
07-06-2017, 08:11 AM
Its funny that MVPs get a ton of hype when discussing legacies but COY almost seem to be irrelevant.

metswon69
07-06-2017, 08:17 AM
Its funny that MVPs get a ton of hype when discussing legacies but COY almost seem to be irrelevant.

I think its the same theory across the board that a manager/coach in any sport is only as good as the talent around him. That's why no one is really paying attention to COY.

As for D'Antoni, gimmick offenses get a lot of attention in college football too. When push comes to shove that only goes so far but if the team he coaches exceed expectations, a lot of the credit is going to go him whether deserved or not.

mightybosstone
07-06-2017, 08:24 AM
The essence of the system that D'Antoni has been preaching for the past 15 years is literally what the modern NBA diverted to. Can't just brush off the guy and call him a failure.
This. D'Antoni's system has been critical to the success of so many teams in the modern NBA. And he was absolutely a deserving winner last season. He took a team that played .500 basketball a year before that no one predicted would win 50 sames and turned it into the fourth best team in the league while transforming Harden into on the league's top point guards.

mightybosstone
07-06-2017, 08:28 AM
Until the playoffs when it completely falls apart.
That narrative has been drastically overplayed. His Suns teams, which had a pretty small window, played in the same era as Duncan's Spurs and Kobe's Lakers. Most of the series his teams lost, the Suns were not the favorites.

Also, to OP's point about Jerry Sloan, how many titles did Sloan win? I'll wait while you count those up. It shouldn't take long.

IndyRealist
07-06-2017, 08:59 AM
D'Antoni is either massively overrated or massively underrated, there is no in between. SSOL is the basis of the modern NBA offense, in that respect he was WAY ahead of his time. A visionary.

At the same time, he is a very limited coach. He only plays one style, and can't adapt to his personnel. He's great with James Harden, but how about DeAndre Jordan? Or Giannis? I don't think they'd be half as good with Lillard or Irving instead of Harden. D'Antoni needs certain types of players in specific roles.

Scoots
07-06-2017, 10:43 AM
And D'antoni's system is horribly flawed. Even those #1 seed Suns teams that were super talented were never going to win with that system.

You cannot run your players into the ground (He basically ended Kobe's career) play no defense and expect to win a title.

Time ended Kobe's career. I agree on the no D thing. The Warriors run some of D'Antoni's stuff and I was worried about defense, but it's always been a focus of the players and the staff so even at that insane pace they are still hustling back on D and the players are smart enough to deal with all the cross matching. Maybe it's not the offensive system that's the issue but the players he's had that are the issue ... D'Antoni hasn't had a lot of defensive studs who can also play offense to work with.

PowerHouse
07-06-2017, 10:50 AM
His Suns teams, which had a pretty small window, played in the same era as Duncan's Spurs and Kobe's Lakers.

Duncan's Spurs yes but Dantoni's Suns never had to face the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or Kobe/Gasol Lakers. They faced the laughable Kobe/Smush Parker Lakers which they eliminated in the 1st round every year.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2017, 11:10 AM
It's not really COY, it's Most Over Achieving Team award.

It almost always goes to the coach of the team that did much better than expected.

yep.

ewing
07-06-2017, 11:42 AM
He's a bum. Look at how awesome the lakers and knicks got after he left

Hustla23
07-06-2017, 06:38 PM
As soon as I read "gimmick offense" in regards to any "critique" of D'antoni I stop reading.

Yeah, the guy who revolutionized modern NBA basketball and orchestrated elite offenses just spammed some gimmick that required no thinking.

tp13baby
07-06-2017, 07:03 PM
And D'antoni's system is horribly flawed. Even those #1 seed Suns teams that were super talented were never going to win with that system.

You cannot run your players into the ground (He basically ended Kobe's career) play no defense and expect to win a title.

Same reason George Karl was fired rightfully so. That 04-05 Suns team had the talent to win it all. They were better and deeper than SAS that year. No reason to get destroyed like they did.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 07:10 PM
That narrative has been drastically overplayed. His Suns teams, which had a pretty small window, played in the same era as Duncan's Spurs and Kobe's Lakers. Most of the series his teams lost, the Suns were not the favorites.

Also, to OP's point about Jerry Sloan, how many titles did Sloan win? I'll wait while you count those up. It shouldn't take long.

lol like those were unbeatable teams. When isn't there competition?

LOb0
07-06-2017, 07:12 PM
Time ended Kobe's career. I agree on the no D thing. The Warriors run some of D'Antoni's stuff and I was worried about defense, but it's always been a focus of the players and the staff so even at that insane pace they are still hustling back on D and the players are smart enough to deal with all the cross matching. Maybe it's not the offensive system that's the issue but the players he's had that are the issue ... D'Antoni hasn't had a lot of defensive studs who can also play offense to work with.

He was playing Kobe an absurd amount of minutes. Those old Achilles can only take so much. Kobe was like a race car D'antoni was driving into the red and the engine blew.

D'antoni would tell his players to literally let the other team score so we can keep the pace up. Complete moron.

valade16
07-06-2017, 07:23 PM
He was playing Kobe an absurd amount of minutes. Those old Achilles can only take so much. Kobe was like a race car D'antoni was driving into the red and the engine blew.

D'antoni would tell his players to literally let the other team score so we can keep the pace up. Complete moron.

He year before D'Antoni Mike Brown was playing Kobe the exact same MPG.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2017, 07:27 PM
fun note... Tyrone Lue has a championship... He is great right? Phil had Kobe/Shaq/Jordan and he gets all the credit in the world so that means Tyrone lue is one of the better coaches in basketball right?

valade16
07-06-2017, 07:31 PM
lol like those were unbeatable teams. When isn't there competition?

From 1999-2014 the Spurs and Lakers won 10 of the 16 titles. The only teams that didn't were the 04 Pistons (who beat the Lakers), 06 Heat, 08 Celtics (who beat the Lakers), 11 Mavs (who beat the Lakers), and the 12/13 Heat (who beat the Spurs)

So in all that time 4 teams managed to beat either the Spurs or Lakers enroute to a title whereas 10 times the Spurs/Lakers won.

That's not completely unbearable, but it's pretty darn tough

jphysics
07-06-2017, 07:40 PM
COY is kind of a silly award, partly because its really hard for a bunch of journalists to fairly quantify how good a coach is. In my opinion Pop should be getting it every year...

Also, Dantoni should also have a couple worse coach of the year awards for his time with the Lakers, Denver, and New York.

His system only works with certain sets of players. He's not flexible or creative enough to manage other rosters, even when they are loaded. Its the same reason he is bad in the playoffs: he doesnt make adjustments effectively.

That said, his systems do great with the right players during the regular season. So Kudos for that.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 08:06 PM
He year before D'Antoni Mike Brown was playing Kobe the exact same MPG.

He had a long stretch of playing Kobe 45 minutes per game and and at one point a stretch of playing 47 minutes.

That is when his Achilles blew. Brown never did something that insane.

" Kobe Bryant was on the court for nearly every minute of the seven games he played last April before tearing his Achilles."

It's funny because like a week before Kobe got hurt and everyone was talking about minutes Barkley said "He can't play all those minutes, he's gonna get hurt"

LOb0
07-06-2017, 08:08 PM
From 1999-2014 the Spurs and Lakers won 10 of the 16 titles. The only teams that didn't were the 04 Pistons (who beat the Lakers), 06 Heat, 08 Celtics (who beat the Lakers), 11 Mavs (who beat the Lakers), and the 12/13 Heat (who beat the Spurs)

So in all that time 4 teams managed to beat either the Spurs or Lakers enroute to a title whereas 10 times the Spurs/Lakers won.

That's not completely unbearable, but it's pretty darn tough

Maybe they would have if D'antoni coached a shred of defense. Those teams were beatable. And the above poster was right. There were no Kobe-Gasol Lakers in the D'antoni era.

flea
07-06-2017, 08:44 PM
Maybe they would have if D'antoni coached a shred of defense. Those teams were beatable. And the above poster was right. There were no Kobe-Gasol Lakers in the D'antoni era.

Since 1970 only 4 teams have won 3 titles in 5 years - Showtime Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, MJ Bulls, and Duncan Spurs. You're overstating how "beatable" the Spurs (their main nemesis) were. Suns were a great team that did play defense - they just weren't good enough to beat a dynasty. Same goes for Ewing's Knicks but nobody says Riley "didn't coach a shred of offense" or some such nonsense. If anyone deserves blame for the 2-way shortcomings of the Suns it's not D'Antoni but Stat.

D'Antoni is a HOF coach who had the misfortune of coaching a bunch of old, whiny, and injured HOFers for the premiere NBA franchise.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 09:01 PM
Since 1970 only 4 teams have won 3 titles in 5 years - Showtime Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, MJ Bulls, and Duncan Spurs. You're overstating how "beatable" the Spurs (their main nemesis) were. Suns were a great team that did play defense - they just weren't good enough to beat a dynasty. Same goes for Ewing's Knicks but nobody says Riley "didn't coach a shred of offense" or some such nonsense. If anyone deserves blame for the 2-way shortcomings of the Suns it's not D'Antoni but Stat.

D'Antoni is a HOF coach who had the misfortune of coaching a bunch of old, whiny, and injured HOFers for the premiere NBA franchise.

A guy who is quoted as yelling at a player for defending is not getting a pass. Sorry. His system is flawed. He'll flame out every single year.

flea
07-06-2017, 09:10 PM
A guy who is quoted as yelling at a player for defending is not getting a pass. Sorry. His system is flawed. He'll flame out every single year.

Is Sloan's system flawed because the Jazz never got the chip? Adelman's motion offense before it became (NBA) popular because he didn't get a chip? NBA is a superstar league, all coaches try to do is maximize marginal players and keep their teams functional - there hasn't been a single team that won an NBA title because of a coach.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 09:37 PM
Is Sloan's system flawed because the Jazz never got the chip? Adelman's motion offense before it became (NBA) popular because he didn't get a chip? NBA is a superstar league, all coaches try to do is maximize marginal players and keep their teams functional - there hasn't been a single team that won an NBA title because of a coach.

No, at least they attempted to coach defense. They just ran into better teams. Well and the refs f*cked over Adelman.

If you like D'antoni be my guest. I think he's completely horrible at everything other than yelling "run". What was Kobe 35 years old? And this moron is playing him 47 minutes a game? lmao. He just ran Harden into the ground last season. He finally has admitted he needs to rest guys after the Spurs beat them yet again.

THE MTL
07-06-2017, 09:58 PM
Coach of the Year goes to the team that overachieved the most. It has nothing to do with pure coaching ability. But did he deserve it this year?...Yes definitely

Ariza's Better
07-06-2017, 09:58 PM
No, at least they attempted to coach defense. They just ran into better teams. Well and the refs f*cked over Adelman.

If you like D'antoni be my guest. I think he's completely horrible at everything other than yelling "run". What was Kobe 35 years old? And this moron is playing him 47 minutes a game? lmao. He just ran Harden into the ground last season. He finally has admitted he needs to rest guys after the Spurs beat them yet again.
Is Harden playing the least amount of mins in the regular season and playoffs since joining Houston really running him into the ground?

LOb0
07-06-2017, 10:04 PM
Is Harden playing the least amount of mins in the regular season and playoffs since joining Houston really running him into the ground?

Considering his workload was more than ever, yeah. Played the 3rd most minutes in the league. And D'antoni said himself he needs more rest. After the season of course.

valade16
07-06-2017, 10:58 PM
Since 1970 only 4 teams have won 3 titles in 5 years - Showtime Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, MJ Bulls, and Duncan Spurs. You're overstating how "beatable" the Spurs (their main nemesis) were. Suns were a great team that did play defense - they just weren't good enough to beat a dynasty. Same goes for Ewing's Knicks but nobody says Riley "didn't coach a shred of offense" or some such nonsense. If anyone deserves blame for the 2-way shortcomings of the Suns it's not D'Antoni but Stat.

D'Antoni is a HOF coach who had the misfortune of coaching a bunch of old, whiny, and injured HOFers for the premiere NBA franchise.

Agreed. Of the 4 seasons D'Antoni's Suns lost in the playoffs, 3 times were to the Spurs and twice that's spurs team that beat them won the title. The only other time was to the Mavs in the WCF. They didn't get upset in the playoffs, they simply lost to very good teams.

LOb0
07-06-2017, 11:11 PM
Agreed. Of the 4 seasons D'Antoni's Suns lost in the playoffs, 3 times were to the Spurs and twice that's spurs team that beat them won the title. The only other time was to the Mavs in the WCF. They didn't get upset in the playoffs, they simply lost to very good teams.

I think my issue is that I never thought they had a chance in any of those series due to their style of play. Like I just never take a D'antoni ran team seriously.

blahblahyoutoo
07-10-2017, 11:52 PM
Until the playoffs when it completely falls apart.

really? because GS runs a similar system and nearly won the last 3 championships with it.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-10-2017, 11:56 PM
The COY rewards the wrong coaches but neither of his wins are ones you should complain about.

Saddletramp
07-11-2017, 12:39 AM
D'Antoni is either massively overrated or massively underrated, there is no in between. SSOL is the basis of the modern NBA offense, in that respect he was WAY ahead of his time. A visionary.

At the same time, he is a very limited coach. He only plays one style, and can't adapt to his personnel. He's great with James Harden, but how about DeAndre Jordan? Or Giannis? I don't think they'd be half as good with Lillard or Irving instead of Harden. D'Antoni needs certain types of players in specific roles.

Good thing he has Harden on his team and not DeAndre Jordan, Giannis, Lilliard or Irving then.

JAZZNC
07-11-2017, 03:00 AM
That narrative has been drastically overplayed. His Suns teams, which had a pretty small window, played in the same era as Duncan's Spurs and Kobe's Lakers. Most of the series his teams lost, the Suns were not the favorites.

Also, to OP's point about Jerry Sloan, how many titles did Sloan win? I'll wait while you count those up. It shouldn't take long.

God you hate the Jazz soooo much lol! Not that you'd ever give him credit but Sloan was a fantastic coach and every bit as good if not better than your boy. I'd say Mike has never done anything near as impressive as what Sloan did the year after Malone and Stockton left and that's not really debatable. But whatever, the hate is real.

Mike is a good coach, period end of story. Coaches have systems and they are all "flawed" in some regard and they all make mistakes at times. In the NBA talent wins, period and I don't know that he's ever really lost to a noticeably inferior team and hell wouldn't that be mostly on the players?? I'd like to see how Phil Jackson would be regarded had he not coached the ridiculously stacked teams he was lucky enough to have. Remember when everyone said Spo was a joke of a coach and then he suddenly had talent and bam he's a "good coach". Doc River certainly looked good coaching that squad of All Stars in Boston. I dunno, he's damn sure not the best all time but he's not this joke some of you guys are making him out to be.

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2017, 11:08 PM
This. D'Antoni's system has been critical to the success of so many teams in the modern NBA. And he was absolutely a deserving winner last season. He took a team that played .500 basketball a year before that no one predicted would win 50 sames and turned it into the fourth best team in the league while transforming Harden into on the league's top point guards.

Well... 'Antoni's system is a lot like the one Rudy T used, at least in Phoenix. I think Pop's ball movement has been more influential than 'Antoni's system.

Rudy T was the first guy to really take full advantage of the 3 (the league had to bring it back in so that the Bulls would have a chance against that team), and 'Antoni borrowed heavily from that. And Pop's ball movement, and Sloan's pick-and-roll.

I don't think 'Antoni's system is really the source of the current 3-ball game so much as it is the response to players getting better at the 3, and coaches moving past the initial 'this is a gimmick' stage of the 80's. I think it's unfair to give 'Antoni credit for what teams like the Warriors are doing, especially given how strong the Warriors defense is.



That narrative has been drastically overplayed. His Suns teams, which had a pretty small window, played in the same era as Duncan's Spurs and Kobe's Lakers. Most of the series his teams lost, the Suns were not the favorites.

I think this is fair. Were it not for the Nash/Horry incident, the Suns would have won the title that year.


Also, to OP's point about Jerry Sloan, how many titles did Sloan win? I'll wait while you count those up. It shouldn't take long.

His titles are equal to the number of titles 14 combines COY winners since 1998, and he has far more career wins and .500 seasons than any of them.

You really want to go to the ring-count route? You are smarter than that. You excuse the Suns lack of success to playing against Kobe and Duncan: Sloan had to deal with Magic, Hakeem, and Jordan.

And Sloan got 22 winning seasons in 23 (23/26 in his career). I'd say that was pretty impressive. Historically so. The only other coach who one could argue set a higher standard of excellence over as long a period is Pop.

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2017, 11:13 PM
really? because GS runs a similar system and nearly won the last 3 championships with it.

It is a completely different system. For one, they have a strong defensive set.


The system in Phoenix (much like in Houston) was about a PG creating. With the Suns, it was the pick and roll on the ball. The Warriors use off the ball picks with similar spacing, but more passing.

'Antoni's system in Phoenix was more like Sloan's with a focus on 3-point shooting.

Just because both systems really on 3's doesn't mean they are the same.

The Rockets are more about Harden creating and kicking out; the Warriors run picks off the ball and let a guy hit the open man, and if the defense chases the shooter, they kick the ball around the horn to who ever else is open.

I watched a lot of Suns games back then, and a couple of Rockets games this year, and that is NOT the same system the Warriors run.

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2017, 11:14 PM
Is Sloan's system flawed because the Jazz never got the chip? Adelman's motion offense before it became (NBA) popular because he didn't get a chip? NBA is a superstar league, all coaches try to do is maximize marginal players and keep their teams functional - there hasn't been a single team that won an NBA title because of a coach.

+1

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2017, 11:17 PM
D'Antoni is a HOF coach who had the misfortune of coaching a bunch of old, whiny, and injured HOFers for the premiere NBA franchise.

The Knicks were older in 12/13 than they were when 'Antoni had them, and they won 54 games and a playoff series under Woodson.

And they also had a lot of injuries.

Gibby23
07-12-2017, 12:04 AM
Duncan's Spurs yes but Dantoni's Suns never had to face the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or Kobe/Gasol Lakers. They faced the laughable Kobe/Smush Parker Lakers which they eliminated in the 1st round every year.

Yup. We were still a Odom or Kwame Brown rebound from beating that team. Fumbled the rebound and Tim Thomas hits the 3 in an elimination game.

JJ_JKidd
07-12-2017, 09:44 PM
Run and gun, small ball, 7 seconds or less, position-less ball, ETC., has been Mike D's bread and butter and the system or style that other teams have adopted including the Warriors except that them Dubs were successful at it because they played excellent D

Scoots
07-13-2017, 10:22 AM
Like a lot of basketball geniuses ... they change the way people think about the game, but they usually get stuck somewhere and need someone else to make a hybrid of their ideas to get them to work. Tex Winter's triple post didn't really work in the pro game until it also included some game breakers (MJ, Kobe). The run and gun of Don Nelson and Doug Moe didn't work but the similar style working in LA with the Showtime Lakers and Magic. With D'Antoni, the Warriors started with his playbook, Tex's triple post, some Princeton, some Popovich, and added a sound defensive base and Ron Adams to win two titles playing in an offense system that was more influenced by D'Antoni than anyone else ... but it wouldn't have worked without great defensive players and great defensive coaching.

Driven
07-13-2017, 10:37 AM
D'Antoni may never win a Championship, but I'm not going to call a guy a terrible coach when he has a unique system that can definitely work in the regular season and win games. I don't think many coaches really add wins to a team. If they do it's just player management. D'Antoni has an actual system that the team can benefit from.

Driven
07-13-2017, 10:38 AM
I think my issue is that I never thought they had a chance in any of those series due to their style of play. Like I just never take a D'antoni ran team seriously.

Take away their style of play, and just look at the players. Did they have a chance to win those series anyways?

JasonJohnHorn
07-15-2017, 09:17 PM
D'Antoni has an actual system that the team can benefit from.

Certain players can benefit from it.

But just ask a NY fan; it can tear a team apart as effectively as the triangle can ;-)

And the triangle won 11 championships.