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View Full Version : Who's better, Hayward or IT?



WaDe03
07-04-2017, 11:01 PM
Simple question, who's the better player between these two?

I personally think it's pretty close. Does Hayward have more of an impact in getting past someone like Cleveland than IT would?

shep33
07-04-2017, 11:44 PM
Hayward is much better in terms of his total game.

But the correct answer is LeBron

Raps18-19 Champ
07-05-2017, 12:18 AM
Hayward. I think IT drops next year with a more balanced offense and Hayward will look better due to his overall game.

eDush
07-05-2017, 12:38 AM
IT by a 1/4 of a mile as neither of them are particularly good on D but are at the top of their game on offensive scoring.
:up:

europagnpilgrim
07-05-2017, 12:53 AM
IT is more off. dynamic while Hayward and his height advantage allows him to play more sound defense and get more rebounds, I would have to think when comparing fringe all stars a guy who finished higher in MVP race would be the better player but its IT team until he is traded or walks

Hayward is decent, fringe all star but nothing special

LOb0
07-05-2017, 01:23 AM
IT last season was incredible. Gotta give it to him right now. One of the best 4th quarter clutch seasons in NBA history. I think that and that he averaged near 30PPG makes up for his poor defense.

LA_Raiders
07-05-2017, 01:42 AM
IT no question.

ManningToTyree
07-05-2017, 02:56 AM
Hayward he just has a much more well rounded game.

ewing
07-05-2017, 05:32 AM
IT


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leprechaun5
07-05-2017, 05:39 AM
I don't think is close. As good as Isaiah is offensively, he absolutely kills his team in defense. Hayward is not great on D but he isn't the worst defensive player in the league (Isaiah is). Hayward becomes immediately the best player on this Celtics team.

bagwell368
07-05-2017, 05:51 AM
IT by a 1/4 of a mile as neither of them are particularly good on D but are at the top of their game on offensive scoring.
:up:

Hayward is average or a bit above on D. IT is one of the 3 worst defenders in the NBA. Both had career years. Won't predict next year, but for the term of Haywards current contract and IT's next one plus this year?

Hayward >>>> IT

due to health alone if not other things like a quicker offensive pace in Boston compared to Utah.

More-Than-Most
07-05-2017, 06:45 AM
FML i miss voted and selected IT :pity:

Its Hayward without question.

da ThRONe
07-05-2017, 07:24 AM
Hayward he's a solid defender IT is terrible on that end. IT is better at getting baskets but that's offset by Hayward's playmaking.

SteBO
07-05-2017, 08:36 AM
Hayward is the better all around player, not that it says much in the grand scheme of things......

CELTICS4LYFE
07-05-2017, 08:38 AM
All around Hayward. Scoring wise IT.

I predict Hayward with higher scoring than last year and IT with lower. Both around 25ppg.

KnicksorBust
07-05-2017, 12:19 PM
The Celtics need IT more but I would take Hayward if I was starting a team. He has really improved as an overall player over the last 2 seasons.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 12:25 PM
Isiah Thomas without a doubt.

aman_13
07-05-2017, 12:27 PM
IT is too big of a liability on defense. Hayward is the better player.

Firefistus
07-05-2017, 12:27 PM
I would've liked to see this vote BEFORE Hayward left for Boston.

Hawkeye15
07-05-2017, 12:29 PM
Hayward is the better player. Neither is top 15-20, but whatever

mightybosstone
07-05-2017, 02:05 PM
Thomas had the better season last year, but I still think Hayward is the better all-around player. As others have said, Hayward is a pretty competent perimeter defender and has a more versatile game. Also, it's hard to tell whether IT's season was a fluke as his improvement last year was a pretty drastic change from the rest of his career. Hayward, meanwhile, has pretty consistently improved year-over-year since he came into the league, and I feel confident that the Hayward we saw last season is the guy we're going to see moving forward.

But while I picked Hayward over Thomas, I don't think the difference between them is all that huge. I'd put them very close to each other if I were making a list of the best players in the league.

TrueFan420
07-05-2017, 02:08 PM
I had to pick one of the two to start a team I take Hayward all day every day.

ewing
07-05-2017, 03:29 PM
Thomas had the better season last year, but I still think Hayward is the better all-around player. As others have said, Hayward is a pretty competent perimeter defender and has a more versatile game. Also, it's hard to tell whether IT's season was a fluke as his improvement last year was a pretty drastic change from the rest of his career. Hayward, meanwhile, has pretty consistently improved year-over-year since he came into the league, and I feel confident that the Hayward we saw last season is the guy we're going to see moving forward.


But while I picked Hayward over Thomas, I don't think the difference between them is all that huge. I'd put them very close to each other if I were making a list of the best players in the league.


Why b/c he is taller? IT scores from everywhere on the floor better then him, both the 1/2 court and on the break. He is a better passer, ball handler, shooter, finisher, play maker, can create pace or dominate in the pick and roll, can force the defense to collapse or spread them out, and gets to the line better. I'm not sure about mid range but with the floaters and speed IT has its probably him there too. Hayward is taller, a better one on one defender, and a better post up player. IT is better and its not close

valade16
07-05-2017, 03:34 PM
PSD loves height/3pt shooting/well rounded game/defense to the point where clearly superior players who don't possess those things are crapped on.

IT is better.

JAZZNC
07-05-2017, 03:37 PM
Doesn't really matter, neither is capable of being the best player on a true contender. I'd say Hayward because he is at least a middle of the pack defender.

mightybosstone
07-05-2017, 03:42 PM
Why b/c he is taller? IT scores from everywhere on the floor better then him, both the 1/2 court and on the break. He is a better passer, ball handler, shooter, finisher, play maker, can create pace or dominate in the pick and roll, can force the defense to collapse or spread them out, and gets to the line better. I'm not sure about mid range but with the floaters and speed IT has its probably him there too. Hayward is taller, a better one on one defender, and a better post up player. IT is better and its not close

Hayward is a far superior defensive player, and he's more versatile because you can put him in multiple spots from the 2-4 depending on the lineup. IT can essentially only play PG, and he does a poor job at defending that position. Also, Hayward is the superior shooter. He shot 2 percent better from the 3-point line last season, and far more of Hayward's offense comes from the midrange (26.4%) than Thomas (16.8%).

R. Johnson#3
07-05-2017, 04:10 PM
Hayward is technically the more complete player but I'm still going with IT. IT goes to another level late in games and fights for the W. He had to have been one of the top 4th quarter performers from last season. He's flawed defensively big time but his ability to show up late in games is incredibly valuable.

tredigs
07-05-2017, 04:43 PM
PSD loves height/3pt shooting/well rounded game/defense to the point where clearly superior players who don't possess those things are crapped on.

IT is better.

Negative, and you can see that very clearly in the playoffs when teams start locking in defensively. Hayward faced FAR better defensive talent in the playoffs, and still easily outperformed IT offensively (granted IT was hurt at the end, but that's not exactly looking to be a positive for him gong forward either). Defensively there is no worse player in the NBA than IT, so it's pretty cut and dry to me. IT would have to be an elite playmaker in order to reconsider that stance, but that's just not who he is. He's a scorer with basic passing ability (0 rebounder and 0 defender), and one you can much more easily gameplan for when the games matter.

valade16
07-05-2017, 05:20 PM
Negative, and you can see that very clearly in the playoffs when teams start locking in defensively. Hayward faced FAR better defensive talent in the playoffs, and still easily outperformed IT offensively (granted IT was hurt at the end, but that's not exactly looking to be a positive for him gong forward either). Defensively there is no worse player in the NBA than IT, so it's pretty cut and dry to me. IT would have to be an elite playmaker in order to reconsider that stance, but that's just not who he is. He's a scorer with basic passing ability (0 rebounder and 0 defender), and one you can much more easily gameplan for when the games matter.

He easily outperformed him in one series. Vs the Warriors he wasn't anything special (though to be fair, it's the warriors) and his only other playoff series he was atrocious.

A big reason IT's numbers suffered was because teams gameplanned to stop IT because it became very apparent nobody else on Boston could really consistently create their own shot. It's why of all the 5 players who played over 500 mins in the playoffs, only Horford had a better TS%.

We will see next year when they're on the same team, but I highly anticipate the offense still goes through IT (538's recent article on the acquisition agrees with me). IT last year sure blew the doors off Hayward.

ewing
07-05-2017, 05:23 PM
Hayward is a far superior defensive player, and he's more versatile because you can put him in multiple spots from the 2-4 depending on the lineup. IT can essentially only play PG, and he does a poor job at defending that position. Also, Hayward is the superior shooter. He shot 2 percent better from the 3-point line last season, and far more of Hayward's offense comes from the midrange (26.4%) than Thomas (16.8%).


No he isn't. He shot 2% better from 3, that is a virtual tie. Thomas had more attempts, was asked to shoot a lot more difficult 3s, and shoots 90% from the line while getting there frequently and in clutch moments. He is a better shooter. you did expand on the the fact that he taller by telling me he can play 2 through 4 Bravo!

valade16
07-05-2017, 05:30 PM
No he isn't. He shot 2% better from 3, that is a virtual tie. Thomas had more attempts, was asked to shoot a lot more difficult 3s, and shoots 90% from the line while getting there frequently and in clutch moments. He is a better shooter. you did expand on the the fact that he taller by telling me he can play 2 through 4 Bravo!

To add to that last year and for their careers IT shoots better from 10-16 and 16-23 feet

ewing
07-05-2017, 05:43 PM
To add to that last year and for their careers IT shoots better from 10-16 and 16-23 feet

they're not well rounded mid range shots

hugepatsfan
07-05-2017, 05:50 PM
I think IT is clearly superior offensively but I just take Hayward because IT is a TOTAL liability on the defensive end while Hayward is alright. That's why I go with Hayward as a better player overall because I think the gap between them on offense is less than on defense by a good margin.

mightybosstone
07-05-2017, 05:53 PM
No he isn't. He shot 2% better from 3, that is a virtual tie. Thomas had more attempts, was asked to shoot a lot more difficult 3s, and shoots 90% from the line while getting there frequently and in clutch moments. He is a better shooter. you did expand on the the fact that he taller by telling me he can play 2 through 4 Bravo!

Having a higher volume doesn't necessarily make you a better shooter. If you want to call it a tie, that's fine, but I hardly think you can make a case for IT as the superior pure shooter. Scorer and finisher? Sure. But if I need a guy to hit 3-pointers for me, I'd take Hayward before I'd take Thomas.

Also, one area I haven't even brought up is postseason production, but Hayward's playoff numbers this last year absolutely crushed anything Thomas did. IT saw a significant dropoff in his playoff production, which is pretty consistent for him in his career, albeit in a small sample size.

And in regards to his versatility, height is hardly the only factor that influences it, and that's a fairly asinine statement to make. Not every SF can play SG and PF simply because of his height. The guy is a solid defender with pretty good lateral movement, and his positional versatility absolutely adds value to a roster. IT can't even defend his sole position on the court at a competent level.

mavwar53
07-05-2017, 06:04 PM
Hayward, IT is a major liability on D while Hayward isn't great but also just because of his height alone doesn't ruin team defense. Also I'd say there were many times it wasn't too difficult to guard Thomas in the playoffs, his height is such a disadvantage.

Jamiecballer
07-05-2017, 06:08 PM
I would say Thomas. Anybody can play in utah. Do they even have TV there?

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ewing
07-05-2017, 06:13 PM
Having a higher volume doesn't necessarily make you a better shooter. If you want to call it a tie, that's fine, but I hardly think you can make a case for IT as the superior pure shooter. Scorer and finisher? Sure. But if I need a guy to hit 3-pointers for me, I'd take Hayward before I'd take Thomas.

Also, one area I haven't even brought up is postseason production, but Hayward's playoff numbers this last year absolutely crushed anything Thomas did. IT saw a significant dropoff in his playoff production, which is pretty consistent for him in his career, albeit in a small sample size.

And in regards to his versatility, height is hardly the only factor that influences it, and that's a fairly asinine statement to make. Not every SF can play SG and PF simply because of his height. The guy is a solid defender with pretty good lateral movement, and his positional versatility absolutely adds value to a roster. IT can't even defend his sole position on the court at a competent level.

Two players shoot a similar % on 3s. one of them takes more shots and takes more difficult shots. That guy is a better 3 point shooter. Maybe he has worse shot selection (i don't think that is the case here) but he is a better shooter. I also don't see Hayward crushing him in the playoff this year. They scored at a similar volume, IT had 6 dimes a game, Hayward 6 rebounds, Hayward was a bit more efficient. IT lost his sister, all his teeth, played through a hip injury, and still lead his team to the ECF. Give the guy a break. And i i'm more the fairly asinine! I'd say I'm two steps- nay one step- from being totally asinine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!