PDA

View Full Version : Zach Randolph to Kings for 2yrs $24M



AllBall
07-04-2017, 01:31 PM
882288274886328320

Kings making a lot of solid moves lately.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 01:34 PM
Lol the Knigs can't even tank right.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 01:37 PM
Lol the Knigs can't even tank right.

Do you realize how stacked the West is? The Kings brought in Hill and Randolph to teach the young guys and to reset the culture. Need to have solid vets to learn from. Young players don't win in the NBA the Kings are easily still a lottery team. Look at the Lakers young players and how they developed around vets that didn't set the tone.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 01:38 PM
Do you realize how stacked the West is? The Kings brought in Hill and Randolph to teach the young guys and to reset the culture. Need to have solid vets to learn from. Young players don't win in the NBA the Kings are easily still a lottery team. Look at the Lakers young players and how they developed around vets that didn't set the tone.

Once Hill and Randolph come out and say they won't try to win games, then I will say they are still tanking. Otherwise, they bought themselves a few more wins they don't ever need.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 01:40 PM
fyi, this move officially cancels kings offer to otto porter.

lool.

AllBall
07-04-2017, 01:40 PM
FYI, this move officially cancels Kings offer to Otto Porter.

Bostonjorge
07-04-2017, 01:40 PM
If they keep Rudy Gay then they can make it interesting.

Hangtime
07-04-2017, 01:46 PM
Bye Bye Zach. Time for us to get younger and more athletic at that position.

sacgiants1213
07-04-2017, 01:48 PM
Randolph isn't a bad vet for Skal, Papagiannis, Giles, WCS to learn from. I just hope Zach doesn't take all of Skal's minutes.

AllBall
07-04-2017, 01:49 PM
If they keep Rudy Gay then they can make it interesting.

It's well known he doesn't want to be there.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Randolph isn't a bad vet for Skal, Papagiannis, Giles, WCS to learn from. I just hope Zach doesn't take all of Skal's minutes.

There's so many vets that these guys would respect and don't have to take minutes from the young guys. A guy like Amir Johnson would have done them wonders.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 01:54 PM
Once Hill and Randolph come out and say they won't try to win games, then I will say they are still tanking. Otherwise, they bought themselves a few more wins they don't ever need.

Can't put a price on great veteran leadership that gets passed down to the young guys. The Kings already have a lot of young talent as well.

sacgiants1213
07-04-2017, 01:58 PM
Literally over half of the Kings regular season team is playing in summer league. The Kings needed vets.

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 02:00 PM
They ain't tanking...wtf are you smoking?... getting solid veterans to mentor the young team on very favorable contacts....great signing!

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:00 PM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 02:00 PM
Sure but it really does help

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 02:01 PM
Can't put a price on great veteran leadership that gets passed down to the young guys. The Kings already have a lot of young talent as well.

I didn't say it wasn't valuable. I said they got guys that will take minutes from vets AND will help result in win games. They could have gotten veterans that they could learn from at lower costs and higher chance to lose.

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 02:02 PM
Hahaha...good thing you ain't no GM....you really said amir ****ing Johnson? Smh

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 02:03 PM
Hahaha...good thing you ain't no GM....you really said amir ****ing Johnson? Smh

He's just an example and of course he's a good veteran presence. Amir Johnson does everything you want out of a non star, many of the Kings big men will be non stars. It's the same reason the 76ers got him. To teach their players about setting good screens, moving without the ball, learning to get good position to rebound, etc.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 02:04 PM
West is so stacked they won't win that many games anyway.

I gotta think they're bound to face East teams at some point in the season.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 02:05 PM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.

Lol that's one team that drafted unbelievable players. Look at every single young talented team out there and how much they struggle. An example would the Timberwolves last year. Young players don't win in the NBA.

sacgiants1213
07-04-2017, 02:06 PM
I didn't say it wasn't valuable. I said they got guys that will take minutes from vets AND will help result in win games. They could have gotten veterans that they could learn from at lower costs and higher chance to lose.

West is so stacked they won't win that many games anyway.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 02:07 PM
I didn't say it wasn't valuable. I said they got guys that will take minutes from vets AND will help result in win games. They could have gotten veterans that they could learn from at lower costs and higher chance to lose.

The way the West is playing out George Hill and Zach Randolph aren't going to help us win very many games. The more likely scenario will they will keep games closer, so the competitive environment is always there instead of just getting blown out like the 76ers were trying to do.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:11 PM
Lol that's one team that drafted unbelievable players. Look at every single young talented team out there and how much they struggle. An example would the Timberwolves last year. Young players don't win in the NBA.

Talent wins in the NBA doesn't matter if it's young or old. Talent wins and there's no such thing as veteran presence just something fans make up. It's irrelevant. Every man for themself.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 02:21 PM
Talent wins in the NBA doesn't matter if it's young or old. Talent wins and there's no such thing as veteran presence just something fans make up. It's irrelevant. Every man for themself.

So why didn't the Timberwolves, Lakers, or even New York make the playoffs last year?

Cracka2HI!
07-04-2017, 02:24 PM
Randolph isn't a bad vet for Skal, Papagiannis, Giles, WCS to learn from. I just hope Zach doesn't take all of Skal's minutes.

This is what I was wondering. I love the Hill signing but I'm not sure they don't have too much young talent that needs PT in that frontcourt. They still have Koufos and Cauley-Stien too, right?

AllBall
07-04-2017, 02:25 PM
Talent wins in the NBA doesn't matter if it's young or old. Talent wins and there's no such thing as veteran presence just something fans make up. It's irrelevant. Every man for themself.

When people make comments like this it makes me wonder if they ever played any team sports in their life.

mightybosstone
07-04-2017, 02:31 PM
Yeahhh.... I hate this move, both for Randolph and for the Kings. I get the idea of bringing in veterans to teach your guys how to conduct themselves, how to work hard, etc. That's fine. But you can get guys like that on veteran minimum deals. You didn't need to go out and spend $12 million a year on a former All-Star caliber player. It makes no sense, and this team is still ridiculously far from legitimately competing for a playoff spot.

As for Randolph, maybe the guy needed the money? But I kinda think this looks bad for his legacy. He's got very few years left, and he could have gone out competing for a title. Instead, he's going to lose a lot of games while babysitting a bunch of 20-year-olds.

sacgiants1213
07-04-2017, 02:32 PM
This is what I was wondering. I love the Hill signing but I'm not sure they don't have too much young talent that needs PT in that frontcourt. They still have Koufos and Cauley-Stien too, right?

Yeah they now have Randolph, Labissiere, Giles, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis and Koufos in the front court. I think they'll send Giles to the D-league. So they'll go with Randolph/Skal at the 4 and WCS/Koufos/Papagiannis at Center.

aman_13
07-04-2017, 02:33 PM
When people make comments like this it makes me wonder if they ever played any team sports in their life.

Exactly what I was thinking.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:36 PM
So why didn't the Timberwolves, Lakers, or even New York make the playoffs last year?

Bad talent.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:38 PM
Are the Kings going to win a Championship w/ Randolph and Hill? No. This is a massive waste of money.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:46 PM
So why didn't the Timberwolves, Lakers, or even New York make the playoffs last year?

Stupid contracts.

Youth takes time to develop.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 02:50 PM
Stupid contracts.

Youth takes time to develop.

So youth with talent takes time to develop? Interesting. Which goes back to my point that young players don't win in the NBA.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 02:51 PM
Bad talent.

Lol the Timberwolves with bad talent??

Ya.. I'm just going to stop responding to you

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:53 PM
Lol the Timberwolves with bad talent??

Ya.. I'm just going to stop responding to you

They didn't have enough talent.

This year they will be much improved.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:54 PM
So youth with talent takes time to develop? Interesting. Which goes back to my point that young players don't win in the NBA.

Don't blame me for your being a mo*on.

Youth takes time to develop but a team filled with youth can win see how the Celtics became a first seed overnight.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 02:57 PM
Lol the Timberwolves with bad talent??

Ya.. I'm just going to stop responding to you

Outside of Wiggins and KAT (two YOUNG PLAYERS) who did they have that can carry them to a Playoffs spot? No one.

eDush
07-04-2017, 02:58 PM
882288274886328320

Kings making a lot of solid moves lately.Thats not a solid move as he is kinda old and fat now and still a hothead and not a good teammate to have around. Maybe you are into players like Boogie, D12 and Zbo but not me!
:no:

The Kings need to rebuild using young players so I disapprove this signing.

AllBall
07-04-2017, 02:59 PM
Thats not a solid move as he is kinda old and fat now and still a hothead and not a good teammate to have around. Maybe you are into players like Boogie, D12 and Zbo but not me!
:no:

The Kings need to rebuild using young players so I disapprove this signing.

Yes, I'm a fan of 90s bully basketball. I understand all these players are cupcake floppers now.

MJNetsIsles
07-04-2017, 03:00 PM
Thats not a solid move as he is kinda old and fat now and still a hothead and not a good teammate to have around. Maybe you are into players like Boogie, D12 and Zbo but not me!
:no:

The Kings need to rebuild using young players so I disapprove this signing.

Thank you. Someone intelligent

JAZZNC
07-04-2017, 03:10 PM
Thats not a solid move as he is kinda old and fat now and still a hothead and not a good teammate to have around. Maybe you are into players like Boogie, D12 and Zbo but not me!
:no:

The Kings need to rebuild using young players so I disapprove this signing.

How is Randolph a bad teammate? You just make **** up man. And you seriously over use the smiley face options. I mean does every post really need one of those!?

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 03:18 PM
Yeahhh.... I hate this move, both for Randolph and for the Kings. I get the idea of bringing in veterans to teach your guys how to conduct themselves, how to work hard, etc. That's fine. But you can get guys like that on veteran minimum deals. You didn't need to go out and spend $12 million a year on a former All-Star caliber player. It makes no sense, and this team is still ridiculously far from legitimately competing for a playoff spot.

As for Randolph, maybe the guy needed the money? But I kinda think this looks bad for his legacy. He's got very few years left, and he could have gone out competing for a title. Instead, he's going to lose a lot of games while babysitting a bunch of 20-year-olds.

They need to hit a certain amount, salary cap wise...

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 03:22 PM
Thats not a solid move as he is kinda old and fat now and still a hothead and not a good teammate to have around. Maybe you are into players like Boogie, D12 and Zbo but not me!
:no:

The Kings need to rebuild using young players so I disapprove this signing.

They are rebuilding... they have all young players besides 1 or 2... They need veteran presence... they need winning attitude...they need players who've been through success and knows what it takes to compete...perfect signing!

chitownredbulls
07-04-2017, 03:27 PM
He's just an example and of course he's a good veteran presence. Amir Johnson does everything you want out of a non star, many of the Kings big men will be non stars. It's the same reason the 76ers got him. To teach their players about setting good screens, moving without the ball, learning to get good position to rebound, etc.

So let me get this straight... you assume that your big men will be nothing more than role players so you go out and get a player whose always been a role player to show your big men how to be role players? Get the **** out of here with that ********... again, good thing you ain't a GM....

warfelg
07-04-2017, 03:36 PM
So when Philly is rebuilding....lack of vets is bad.

When Sacramento is rebuilding....lack of vets is good.

mightybosstone
07-04-2017, 03:39 PM
They need to hit a certain amount, salary cap wise...

Yes, but spend that money on young players with potential, not a guy who's going to be out of the league in a couple of years. I'd rather see them overspend slightly on a guy in his early 20s with potential who could turn into a starter or solid rotational player down the line.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-04-2017, 03:46 PM
So let me get this straight... you assume that your big men will be nothing more than role players so you go out and get a player whose always been a role player to show your big men how to be role players? Get the **** out of here with that ********... again, good thing you ain't a GM....

No, you get players that have good fundamentals and do the things they should be doing.

You can't really teach someone to be a star. Whereas you can teach them how to play the right way even if they turn out to be a star or not.

GoferKing_
07-04-2017, 03:46 PM
So why didn't the Timberwolves, Lakers, or even New York make the playoffs last year?

Seriously, New York? Lakers? xD

eDush
07-04-2017, 04:17 PM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.

Lol that's one team that drafted unbelievable players. Look at every single young talented team out there and how much they struggle. An example would the Timberwolves last year. Young players don't win in the NBA.:bs: they do as long as they have talent and play as a team which is what the Dubs did. The same is true for other team sports too. Vets can give them good advice which they can get from the offseason camps they attend especially the big name ones :nod:

Heediot
07-04-2017, 04:17 PM
Do you realize how stacked the West is? The Kings brought in Hill and Randolph to teach the young guys and to reset the culture. Need to have solid vets to learn from. Young players don't win in the NBA the Kings are easily still a lottery team. Look at the Lakers young players and how they developed around vets that didn't set the tone.

Randolph and Hill have moveable contracts as IMO. They could be traded for picks and or prospects if need be. I don't see much harm and agree with your sentiment

AllBall
07-04-2017, 04:21 PM
So when Philly is rebuilding....lack of vets is bad.

When Sacramento is rebuilding....lack of vets is good.

Shhhh, logic doesn't work on PSD. lol

warfelg
07-04-2017, 04:34 PM
Shhhh, logic doesn't work on PSD. lol

My bad.

eDush
07-04-2017, 04:43 PM
So when Philly is rebuilding....lack of vets is bad.

When Sacramento is rebuilding....lack of vets is good.Lack of vets is neither good or bad other then leaderships but you can also get bad leadership too like if they kept Boogie which many fans can't see other than his talents and thought the Pels rip them off when I said the Kings won that trade with grabbing Buddy Hield :clap:

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 04:57 PM
Randolph and Hill have moveable contracts as IMO. They could be traded for picks and or prospects if need be. I don't see much harm and agree with your sentiment

Exactly. George Hill's third year is also so partially guaranteed making him very tradable. If Fox adapts quickly and George doesn't want to come off the bench he can easily be moved, just like Randolph.

Silvnblckatck
07-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Seriously, New York? Lakers? xD

New York easily has playoff talent. I just threw in the Lakers as a joke because some of their fans were arguing they had the best young talent in the league.

CityofTreez
07-04-2017, 07:23 PM
How is Randolph a bad teammate? You just make **** up man. And you seriously over use the smiley face options. I mean does every post really need one of those!?

Haha you're a good poster NC.

I'm happy we got Hill from you guys, and I think Rubio is a solid pickup for SLC

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-04-2017, 08:25 PM
So when Philly is rebuilding....lack of vets is bad.

When Sacramento is rebuilding....lack of vets is good.

Philly did it the right way. Now they can add some vets like Reddick and Amir to join a team that already has a great young core in place after years of acquiring great young assets.

Sacramento is trying to do two things at once. They are trying to rebuild AND be competitive at the same time. That doesn't work in the NBA. The Kings had a golden opportunity to get a top pick this year and by signing Hill and Z-Bo, they are potentially blowing it so they can be somewhat competitive in a stacked Western Conference. Even if they get the 8th seed, is it really worth it? I'd rather have a top 3 pick to add to the young core they are building.

warfelg
07-05-2017, 09:35 AM
Philly did it the right way. Now they can add some vets like Reddick and Amir to join a team that already has a great young core in place after years of acquiring great young assets.

Sacramento is trying to do two things at once. They are trying to rebuild AND be competitive at the same time. That doesn't work in the NBA. The Kings had a golden opportunity to get a top pick this year and by signing Hill and Z-Bo, they are potentially blowing it so they can be somewhat competitive in a stacked Western Conference. Even if they get the 8th seed, is it really worth it? I'd rather have a top 3 pick to add to the young core they are building.

The fact that Hill and ZBo (both who will be off the bench by Feb.) could push this team to an 8th seed is sad. Their still a bottom 3 in the west team.

But their arrow is pointing up.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 10:19 AM
The fact that Hill and ZBo (both who will be off the bench by Feb.) could push this team to an 8th seed is sad. Their still a bottom 3 in the west team.

But their arrow is pointing up.

The reason I even mention the 8th seed is that the West lost some depth. CP3 leaving LAC makes them much worse and Heyward/Hill leaving Utah hurts them pretty badly too. Denver did improve with Millsap though and Minnesota looks much improved.

Still, I think that 8th seed is very winnable in the West. It might only take a .500 record to get it. I don't think the Kings will be .500 even after these moves, but it's not a complete impossibility. Still pretty unlikely though. They look like a 35 win team at best right now.

My whole issue is, I don't want 35 wins or 30 wins. I want 20 or less. I want the #1 pick. That's what the Kings need right now. Then, next year they can try to be competitive and sign all the veterans to short contracts that they want because they don't even have their pick in 2019.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2017, 11:04 AM
Philly did it the right way. Now they can add some vets like Reddick and Amir to join a team that already has a great young core in place after years of acquiring great young assets.

Sacramento is trying to do two things at once. They are trying to rebuild AND be competitive at the same time. That doesn't work in the NBA. The Kings had a golden opportunity to get a top pick this year and by signing Hill and Z-Bo, they are potentially blowing it so they can be somewhat competitive in a stacked Western Conference. Even if they get the 8th seed, is it really worth it? I'd rather have a top 3 pick to add to the young core they are building.

Sacramento has nine 1st round picks from the last four drafts plus a high 2nd in Frank Mason. How much young talent do they need? They need to start playing competitive, winning basketball and for their guys to develop now. They have enough young talent that they can consolidate a few of them into trading for a star if one becomes available in the coming years. You know, pull off the anti-Ainge. :laugh2:

They also have mountains of cap space going forward even with these contracts, so they can be players in FA if they actually get good.

Their hoard of 1st round talent is nuts, I forgot about Malachi Richardson lol.

Bogdan Bogdanovic - 27th overall in 2014

Willey Cauley-Stein - 6th overall in 2015

Buddy Hield - 6th overall in 2016
Georgios Papagiannis - 13th overall in 2016
Malachi Richardson - 22nd overall in 2016
Skal Labissiere - 27th overall in 2016

De'Aaron Fox - 5th overall in 2017
Justin Jackson - 15th overall in 2017
Harry Giles - 20th overall in 2017
Frank Mason - 34th overall in 2017

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-05-2017, 11:21 AM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.

So Iguodala, Bogut, David Lee, Shaun Livingston and Leandro Barbosa didn't count as vets?

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 11:41 AM
Sacramento has nine 1st round picks from the last four drafts plus a high 2nd in Frank Mason. How much young talent do they need? They need to start playing competitive, winning basketball and for their guys to develop now. They have enough young talent that they can consolidate a few of them into trading for a star if one becomes available in the coming years. You know, pull off the anti-Ainge. :laugh2:

They also have mountains of cap space going forward even with these contracts, so they can be players in FA if they actually get good.

Their hoard of 1st round talent is nuts, I forgot about Malachi Richardson lol.

Bogdan Bogdanovic - 27th overall in 2014

Willey Cauley-Stein - 6th overall in 2015

Buddy Hield - 6th overall in 2016
Georgios Papagiannis - 13th overall in 2016
Malachi Richardson - 22nd overall in 2016
Skal Labissiere - 27th overall in 2016

De'Aaron Fox - 5th overall in 2017
Justin Jackson - 15th overall in 2017
Harry Giles - 20th overall in 2017
Frank Mason - 34th overall in 2017

I like some of their late to mid round picks but still... how many of these 1st round picks are top 5 quality picks that look like they can develop into All-Stars one day? Fox and maybe Hield? Most if not all of the players you mentioned project to be role players in the NBA.

The Kings need another top pick... and when I mean top pick I mean top 3. They need the type of pick that can be a franchise player along with a guy like Fox and maybe Hield. This season was the perfect opportunity to have a "development" year where you play all the young guys and let them go through the growing pains. Then you get a top pick and then next year (when you don't have your first round pick anyway) you can try to win with most of these young players already gaining some valuable minutes and experience in the NBA.

I don't think this team needs to start thinking about being competitive now. They literally just traded Cousins and made their first pick that looks like he can be a franchise player for them in Fox. They have enough time to be a bit patient... at least for one season.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2017, 12:01 PM
I like some of their late to mid round picks but still... how many of these 1st round picks are top 5 quality picks that look like they can develop into All-Stars one day? Fox and maybe Hield? Most if not all of the players you mentioned project to be role players in the NBA.

The Kings need another top pick... and when I mean top pick I mean top 3. They need the type of pick that can be a franchise player along with a guy like Fox and maybe Hield. This season was the perfect opportunity to have a "development" year where you play all the young guys and let them go through the growing pains. Then you get a top pick and then next year (when you don't have your first round pick anyway) you can try to win with most of these young players already gaining some valuable minutes and experience in the NBA.

I don't think this team needs to start thinking about being competitive now. They literally just traded Cousins and made their first pick that looks like he can be a franchise player for them in Fox. They have enough time to be a bit patient... at least for one season.

They could have went that way, but they can also go the way of looking to acquire one later with their army of talented young players on rookie contracts. Over the next two years a star player is bound to be traded before he hits the FA market and they have a pretty good treasure chest that will be hard to beat.

They still need to add players for sure, they're just going about it in the trade for/sign a proven commodity over the draft path.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 12:15 PM
They could have went that way, but they can also go the way of looking to acquire one later with their army of talented young players on rookie contracts. Over the next two years a star player is bound to be traded before he hits the FA market and they have a pretty good treasure chest that will be hard to beat.

They still need to add players for sure, they're just going about it in the trade for/sign a proven commodity over the draft path.

If they exercised some patience for just one more season, they could have had the best of both worlds. They could have maybe landed that top 3 pick in the draft AND then after that they could have had the option to going with their drafted players or trading some of their assets for a proven star (like Minnesota just did). All they had to do was wait one more season and they just couldn't bite the bullet. They were too impatient to suck horribly for just one season.

Philly did it the right way. They have a great looking young core on paper, but they still have the option of making a trade for a proven superstar if they want. Imagine what they could get for Ben Simmons if they shopped him around right now. They still have that option if they so choose.

Why are they in such a position right now? Because they showed patience. They bit the bullet for a few years and now they are in one of the best positions in the league with their young, exciting core.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2017, 12:16 PM
I really like the Hill signing for the "vet leadership" role. I'll like this move provided they move/bench Koufos. WCS, Skal and Papagiannis all need to play and it's tough to fit more than 4 bigs in a rotation. Those young guys need 3 of those spots.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2017, 12:35 PM
If they exercised some patience for just one more season, they could have had the best of both worlds. They could have maybe landed that top 3 pick in the draft AND then after that they could have had the option to going with their drafted players or trading some of their assets for a proven star (like Minnesota just did). All they had to do was wait one more season and they just couldn't bite the bullet. They were too impatient to suck horribly for just one season.

Philly did it the right way. They have a great looking young core on paper, but they still have the option of making a trade for a proven superstar if they want. Imagine what they could get for Ben Simmons if they shopped him around right now. They still have that option if they so choose.

Why are they in such a position right now? Because they showed patience. They bit the bullet for a few years and now they are in one of the best positions in the league with their young, exciting core.

Well I don't think Hill and Zach even affect that all that much, to be honest haha. It's not like Hill is even a top 15 PG and Zach is really old and will continue to play 20 MPG or so off the bench.

Hill-Fox
Hield-Bogdan
Jackson/FA vet
Skal-Zach
WCS-Koufos

I'm expecting Giles, Mason, Papagiannis and Malachi to be in the G-League. Or Koufos won't even be there/play and Papagiannis will be up.

They started last year with Cousins, Gay, Collison, Afflalo and Lawson, more good players/vets then this year and they won 32 games. I don't think this team will be good at all, just more competitive in their losses. The only chance they have at being good is if their young players play above expectations and that's a win.

Maybe this keeps them from completely bottoming out and being a 20-win type team, but I'd be surprised if they didn't have a top 10 pick again.

KingPosey
07-05-2017, 01:11 PM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.
Ya they definitely didn't have vets like Iggy, Bogut, Jermaine Oneal. No vets of any kind like those guys.

chitownredbulls
07-05-2017, 01:30 PM
Well I don't think Hill and Zach even affect that all that much, to be honest haha. It's not like Hill is even a top 15 PG and Zach is really old and will continue to play 20 MPG or so off the bench.

Hill-Fox
Hield-Bogdan
Jackson/FA vet
Skal-Zach
WCS-Koufos

I'm expecting Giles, Mason, Papagiannis and Malachi to be in the G-League. Or Koufos won't even be there/play and Papagiannis will be up.

They started last year with Cousins, Gay, Collison, Afflalo and Lawson, more good players/vets then this year and they won 32 games. I don't think this team will be good at all, just more competitive in their losses. The only chance they have at being good is if their young players play above expectations and that's a win.

Maybe this keeps them from completely bottoming out and being a 20-win type team, but I'd be surprised if they didn't have a top 10 pick again.
When you're wrong, please write back...

JLynn943
07-05-2017, 01:41 PM
If they exercised some patience for just one more season, they could have had the best of both worlds. They could have maybe landed that top 3 pick in the draft AND then after that they could have had the option to going with their drafted players or trading some of their assets for a proven star (like Minnesota just did). All they had to do was wait one more season and they just couldn't bite the bullet. They were too impatient to suck horribly for just one season.

Philly did it the right way. They have a great looking young core on paper, but they still have the option of making a trade for a proven superstar if they want. Imagine what they could get for Ben Simmons if they shopped him around right now. They still have that option if they so choose.

Why are they in such a position right now? Because they showed patience. They bit the bullet for a few years and now they are in one of the best positions in the league with their young, exciting core.

lol. We've been patient forever. You have higher expectations out of this roster this year than I do. Instead of having Collison and Lawson splitting time at PG, we'll have Hill and two rookies. For this season, that's not going to be a drastic difference unless Fox and/or Mason play better than expected right away. I like Z-Bo, but he's not going to bring our record up much (if at all). We're going to be playing a ton of young guys at every position. We don't really have a starting SF at this point.

We're a mid-to-high lottery team barring unforeseen developments. Maybe we get lucky in the lottery. We usually don't, but it's possible. If we don't, maybe we package the 7th pick (or whatever we are) with a young guy or two to move up. Or maybe there's a fit at our pick. Hill or Randolph could easily be moved in a trade later on, too.

Either way, this season is going to be about learning and improving amongst our young guys, and I want that to be with the mindset of competing and being the best we can be. We've spent too many years trying to develop without really gunning for anything. There were playoff aspirations when Cousins was here, and we made some questionable moves to try and fix other questionable moves, but I want these players to develop in a better team environment than someone like Ben McLemore had.

JLynn943
07-05-2017, 01:45 PM
I really like the Hill signing for the "vet leadership" role. I'll like this move provided they move/bench Koufos. WCS, Skal and Papagiannis all need to play and it's tough to fit more than 4 bigs in a rotation. Those young guys need 3 of those spots.

Koufos should be easily tradeable if we decide to move him. $8M/yr for a quality backup big is a good deal.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 02:53 PM
lol. We've been patient forever. You have higher expectations out of this roster this year than I do. Instead of having Collison and Lawson splitting time at PG, we'll have Hill and two rookies. For this season, that's not going to be a drastic difference unless Fox and/or Mason play better than expected right away. I like Z-Bo, but he's not going to bring our record up much (if at all). We're going to be playing a ton of young guys at every position. We don't really have a starting SF at this point.

We're a mid-to-high lottery team barring unforeseen developments. Maybe we get lucky in the lottery. We usually don't, but it's possible. If we don't, maybe we package the 7th pick (or whatever we are) with a young guy or two to move up. Or maybe there's a fit at our pick. Hill or Randolph could easily be moved in a trade later on, too.

Either way, this season is going to be about learning and improving amongst our young guys, and I want that to be with the mindset of competing and being the best we can be. We've spent too many years trying to develop without really gunning for anything. There were playoff aspirations when Cousins was here, and we made some questionable moves to try and fix other questionable moves, but I want these players to develop in a better team environment than someone like Ben McLemore had.

IDC... I want us to suck so bad that we are the worst team in the league. Like I'm talking full on tank. Just for one season.

Ben McLemore failed because he isn't that good, not because he didn't have the right veteran leadership. That's a myth. He had veteran guys around him and it didn't matter. Afflalo, Collison, Bellinelli and several others over the years. Kofus too and how about Rudy Gay.

The Kings have been the opposite of patient. They've been signing players like this for several years now. You just have selective memory, but the reality is, the Kings have been adding veteran guys for years and all it has done is hurt our chances at landing the #1 pick in the draft. We've been avoiding the full on tank to get the top, elite draft picks... instead settling for being the 7th or 8th worst team instead. Where has that gotten us?

It was somewhat understandable during the Cousins era because they wanted to build a winner around him. But now, it makes no sense? They don't need Hill and Z-Bo to help the other kids developed. The most development I've seen from young Kings players occurred in the 2nd half of last season when all the young kids were playing big minutes and significant roles... when winning didn't matter. These kids can develop just fine without Hill and Z-Bo. Those players were added because this team is too impatient or prideful to go all in with the rebuild and tank for just one season... like full on tank. They trying to rebuild and be respectable at the same time and it's not the best way for a team like Sacramento to transform themselves into contenders.

JLynn943
07-05-2017, 03:34 PM
IDC... I want us to suck so bad that we are the worst team in the league. Like I'm talking full on tank. Just for one season.

Ben McLemore failed because he isn't that good, not because he didn't have the right veteran leadership. That's a myth. He had veteran guys around him and it didn't matter. Afflalo, Collison, Bellinelli and several others over the years. Kofus too and how about Rudy Gay.

The Kings have been the opposite of patient. They've been signing players like this for several years now. You just have selective memory, but the reality is, the Kings have been adding veteran guys for years and all it has done is hurt our chances at landing the #1 pick in the draft. We've been avoiding the full on tank to get the top, elite draft picks... instead settling for being the 7th or 8th worst team instead. Where has that gotten us?

It was somewhat understandable during the Cousins era because they wanted to build a winner around him. But now, it makes no sense? They don't need Hill and Z-Bo to help the other kids developed. The most development I've seen from young Kings players occurred in the 2nd half of last season when all the young kids were playing big minutes and significant roles... when winning didn't matter. These kids can develop just fine without Hill and Z-Bo. Those players were added because this team is too impatient or prideful to go all in with the rebuild and tank for just one season... like full on tank. They trying to rebuild and be respectable at the same time and it's not the best way for a team like Sacramento to transform themselves into contenders.

I was referring to fan patience. We all know Vivek has none.

Tank and then what? We probably don't end up with the top pick anyway, we've thrown the rookies to the wolves (which can be good or bad for a player), and we have guys already used to a losing culture in the NBA. We're gonna lose anyway, so let's try to compete while doing it. You act as if we're suddenly a threat in the NBA. My thought is we can ideally become that by the end of the season, but we're going to have rookie walls to deal with, too.

Hill is a good leader. So is Temple. All those years with veterans, few were leaders, and you know Cousins made those locker rooms tough. I really think the young players are going to be better for these signings. Seeing vets working hard, being accountable, and buying into the system is important. We tank this year and what happens after that? We have to do well two years from now. We don't have a first round pick at all that year. We need this year to prepare for the next.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2017, 04:41 PM
Ya they definitely didn't have vets like Iggy, Bogut, Jermaine Oneal. No vets of any kind like those guys.

lol nah, they don't count.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2017, 04:45 PM
When you're wrong, please write back...

About which part?

KnicksorBust
07-05-2017, 04:59 PM
So when Philly is rebuilding....lack of vets is bad.

When Sacramento is rebuilding....lack of vets is good.

My favorite post in the thread. Spot on. Zbo dont bluff. 2 year deal? Perfect. They will still suck but have more competitive practices.

warfelg
07-05-2017, 05:28 PM
My favorite post in the thread. Spot on. Zbo dont bluff. 2 year deal? Perfect. They will still suck but have more competitive practices.

So it just shows that people don't care about vets, they just cared Hinkie was open enough to tank and admit vets don't matter when you use the roster space to try to find players.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-05-2017, 06:27 PM
I was referring to fan patience. We all know Vivek has none.

Tank and then what? We probably don't end up with the top pick anyway, we've thrown the rookies to the wolves (which can be good or bad for a player), and we have guys already used to a losing culture in the NBA. We're gonna lose anyway, so let's try to compete while doing it. You act as if we're suddenly a threat in the NBA. My thought is we can ideally become that by the end of the season, but we're going to have rookie walls to deal with, too.

Hill is a good leader. So is Temple. All those years with veterans, few were leaders, and you know Cousins made those locker rooms tough. I really think the young players are going to be better for these signings. Seeing vets working hard, being accountable, and buying into the system is important. We tank this year and what happens after that? We have to do well two years from now. We don't have a first round pick at all that year. We need this year to prepare for the next.

I'm not acting like we are a threat. I'm acting like we are a 30 win team. I'm acting like we are probably not gonna have a top 5 pick. To me, that's enough to potentially miss out on a blue chip prospect. Why not wait one more year to make these types of signings. We don't even have our 2019 pick anyway so it would have made a ton of sense to simply tank hard for one season, then add some vets the following year.

Nothing can be guaranteed of course. Even with these signings we might still suck enough or luck our way into the lottery. Or on the flip side, even if we didn't sign Hill and Z-Bo, we might have still ended up winning enough games to miss out on a top 5 pick. I can't predict the future of course. However, I can critique moves and improve or weaken our odds of winning games, acquiring future assets, landing a better draft pick, etc. I am critiquing such moves. Vlade, Vivek, and company haven't earned the benefit of the doubt yet. Why should I place my faith in them as if they know what they are doing? Vlade has made horrible decisions in the past because of impatience and Vivek is probably the one behind it all. Why is it different this time around? Is it different simply because Cousins was traded?

George Hill and Zach Randolph to me don't just represent solid vets for the young guys to learn from. I'm sure they will learn from those guys, but those signings also represent the desire to win now and rebuild at the same time. Well, trying to win now, even if it means just winning 5 more games, hurts our ability to acquire future assets and find a blue chipper through the draft. They could have signed cheaper, less impactful vets for these young kids to learn from. Why did they have to spend near $20 mil per season over 3 years to that Fox has someone he can learn from. They could have accomplished that for much cheaper.

c.c.
07-05-2017, 06:29 PM
I don't buy the b*******t veteran leadership narrative. Young players in the NBA can win on their own. Just look at Golden State.

I agree with we until the GS part because they had vets. I believe young players can win on they own and a veteran presence is important but not as important as everyone makes it seem.

With all that being said I think having vets is overrated!

rhd420
07-05-2017, 06:38 PM
let's face it - NBA vets are more of a commodity when they have expiring contracts and not necessarily traded for their talent. ZoBo got his money over his career, man sad to see it end not in a Griz jersey and on top of it, in Sacramento

KingPosey
07-05-2017, 09:36 PM
I'm not acting like we are a threat. I'm acting like we are a 30 win team. I'm acting like we are probably not gonna have a top 5 pick. To me, that's enough to potentially miss out on a blue chip prospect. Why not wait one more year to make these types of signings. We don't even have our 2019 pick anyway so it would have made a ton of sense to simply tank hard for one season, then add some vets the following year.

Nothing can be guaranteed of course. Even with these signings we might still suck enough or luck our way into the lottery. Or on the flip side, even if we didn't sign Hill and Z-Bo, we might have still ended up winning enough games to miss out on a top 5 pick. I can't predict the future of course. However, I can critique moves and improve or weaken our odds of winning games, acquiring future assets, landing a better draft pick, etc. I am critiquing such moves. Vlade, Vivek, and company haven't earned the benefit of the doubt yet. Why should I place my faith in them as if they know what they are doing? Vlade has made horrible decisions in the past because of impatience and Vivek is probably the one behind it all. Why is it different this time around? Is it different simply because Cousins was traded?

George Hill and Zach Randolph to me don't just represent solid vets for the young guys to learn from. I'm sure they will learn from those guys, but those signings also represent the desire to win now and rebuild at the same time. Well, trying to win now, even if it means just winning 5 more games, hurts our ability to acquire future assets and find a blue chipper through the draft. They could have signed cheaper, less impactful vets for these young kids to learn from. Why did they have to spend near $20 mil per season over 3 years to that Fox has someone he can learn from. They could have accomplished that for much cheaper.

Youre right, and it does make sense logically. The problem is they've dug themselves such an ugly hole and NO ONE wants to go there they need to show they are changing the CULTURE NOW. They had a strong draft and they almost have to prove theyre changing the ugliness within the org now, and want to build the right culture and actually do something, anything, to prove it.

aAs far as being able to sign cheaper vets, I haven't looked but I bet we were sitting somewhere pretty far under the cap cellar and had to spend some money.

eDush
07-05-2017, 09:45 PM
let's face it - NBA vets are more of a commodity when they have expiring contracts and not necessarily traded for their talent. ZoBo got his money over his career, man sad to see it end not in a Griz jersey and on top of it, in SacramentoThey didn't want him back so it wasn't his fault that he had to leave. Just glad the Dubs didn't pick him up.
:no:

JLynn943
07-06-2017, 12:14 AM
I'm not acting like we are a threat. I'm acting like we are a 30 win team. I'm acting like we are probably not gonna have a top 5 pick. To me, that's enough to potentially miss out on a blue chip prospect. Why not wait one more year to make these types of signings. We don't even have our 2019 pick anyway so it would have made a ton of sense to simply tank hard for one season, then add some vets the following year.

Nothing can be guaranteed of course. Even with these signings we might still suck enough or luck our way into the lottery. Or on the flip side, even if we didn't sign Hill and Z-Bo, we might have still ended up winning enough games to miss out on a top 5 pick. I can't predict the future of course. However, I can critique moves and improve or weaken our odds of winning games, acquiring future assets, landing a better draft pick, etc. I am critiquing such moves. Vlade, Vivek, and company haven't earned the benefit of the doubt yet. Why should I place my faith in them as if they know what they are doing? Vlade has made horrible decisions in the past because of impatience and Vivek is probably the one behind it all. Why is it different this time around? Is it different simply because Cousins was traded?

George Hill and Zach Randolph to me don't just represent solid vets for the young guys to learn from. I'm sure they will learn from those guys, but those signings also represent the desire to win now and rebuild at the same time. Well, trying to win now, even if it means just winning 5 more games, hurts our ability to acquire future assets and find a blue chipper through the draft. They could have signed cheaper, less impactful vets for these young kids to learn from. Why did they have to spend near $20 mil per season over 3 years to that Fox has someone he can learn from. They could have accomplished that for much cheaper.
The idea we're trying to "win now" by signing Hill and Z-Bo is just ridiculous to me. It's not like we traded for Paul George, Gordon Hayward or something. I wouldn't put those things past Vlade or Vivek, but that's not what happened.

Last year our record was buoyed by Cousins, Gay, Collison, and even Afflalo (he had a game winner or two). We're losing all of that and replacing it with a pretty good point guard and a bench big past his prime. Does that raise the floor over just having only young guys and maybe a few bum vets? A bit. I'd rather have the benefit of a couple good or formerly good vets at the cost of a couple percent less chance at #1 than getting less out of this year in our development than we should. A guy like Hill should be a more valuable resource to Fox than Beno Udrih would (and I love Beno).

The young guys we have are actual, real assets to build. Not doing our best with them just to have a slightly better chance at another asset doesn't work for me when the difference in the resulting record won't be much. I stand by the idea that tanking creates a culture of losing and is not a good move with this many young guys all developing at once. If we got the next LeBron next year, it would be worth it, but it's so far from a sure thing that this slightly better roster is worth the slightly worse odds.

If I thought Hill and Randolph put us in that much better of a position, I might be against it, too. I really don't think they will though, and if they do, it's going to be through hard work and great team play, which I'll take, too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-06-2017, 09:56 AM
Youre right, and it does make sense logically. The problem is they've dug themselves such an ugly hole and NO ONE wants to go there they need to show they are changing the CULTURE NOW. They had a strong draft and they almost have to prove theyre changing the ugliness within the org now, and want to build the right culture and actually do something, anything, to prove it.

aAs far as being able to sign cheaper vets, I haven't looked but I bet we were sitting somewhere pretty far under the cap cellar and had to spend some money.

This is the best and only argument

Scoots
07-06-2017, 10:16 AM
Vet leadership is important, including for the Warriors.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-06-2017, 01:15 PM
IDK if this was mentioned, but the Warriors only signed Iggy AFTER they made the playoffs.

JLynn943
07-06-2017, 01:38 PM
This is the best and only argument

lol, no it's not. It's a good argument, but there's an argument that vets are good for development. You were shown a post of quotes from players talking about how much having veterans around them to take them under their wing helped them. You might not agree with it because you want a 5% better chance at maybe drafting someone who doesn't bust and then hope we somehow turn it around so quickly that us not having a pick in 2019 isn't a terrible thing, but it's another argument.