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View Full Version : Eastern Conference stagnation a serious problem



mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 01:54 PM
So I was about to post this rant in the Millsap thread when I thought this deserved its own thread for discussion...

If Millsap does end up going to Denver (which is looking likely), that will just end up being one more nail in the East's coffin that has been this offseason so far. Of all the All-Star caliber players who've changed teams, every single one of them outside of CP3, including Butler, George and Millsap, will have gone from the East to the West. The one saving grace would be if Hayward decided to sign with Boston or Miami.

Seriously, though, what in the hell is the Eastern Conference doing? Aside from Philly and maybe Charlotte, I don't think one team in the East has gotten significantly better so far this offseason outside of the draft. Meanwhile, Western Conference teams are loading up on all the available talent. Houston, OKC and Minnesota have all noticeably improved, and it looks like Denver's right behind them. The Clippers are the only squad who should be significantly worse next year, and even they got Jerry West.

I think Lebron should just take the first couple of months of the season off. He can start at the beginning of the new year refreshed, play like 40-50 games, sneak into the playoffs with 45 wins (probably still as a 4 or 5 seed) and then still crush the competition in 12-14 games again to get to the Finals. I love the guy, but can't we provide SOME kind of competition for him? I miss the days when he was having to take down hard-nosed, talented defensive teams like Detroit, Boston and Indiana.

valade16
07-02-2017, 02:06 PM
It's gotten so bad that outside of LeBron the east 1-5 would lose to the West 6-10.

The 3 biggest talents that moved 1 went from West to west and 2 went from East to West.

aman_13
07-02-2017, 02:10 PM
Hopefully LeBron moves West next year.

KB24PG16
07-02-2017, 02:11 PM
the east should just merge with the g league

Scoots
07-02-2017, 02:22 PM
This trend, far more than his finals record, devalues LeBron's legacy to me.

For most of my life, other than LA, Western teams were always under-covered in the national media simply because of time zones. Finally now with everybody having DVRs it's easier for more people to see the games and the poorly run Eastern franchises are being exposed.

That said, this is just absurd.

FOXHOUND
07-02-2017, 02:26 PM
The east has largely been trash for a long time now. It's gotten back to the ridiculous pre-2008 levels of ineptitude though.

aman_13
07-02-2017, 02:27 PM
I love it

ewing
07-02-2017, 02:36 PM
Aigne is a puss and most of the East is poorly run or following the Hinkie plan


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mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 02:49 PM
This trend, far more than his finals record, devalues LeBron's legacy to me.

For most of my life, other than LA, Western teams were always under-covered in the national media simply because of time zones. Finally now with everybody having DVRs it's easier for more people to see the games and the poorly run Eastern franchises are being exposed.

That said, this is just absurd.

Mmm... I think it's ridiculous to devalue Lebron's legacy just because he played in a conference that sucked. He has to worry about playing well on the court and recruiting and playing GM for his own teams. He shouldn't have to do it for opposing teams as well.

And, like I said in my original post, Lebron HAS had to deal with some really tough teams in the East over his career. But he just hasn't had any really competition in the conference since George's Pacers fell off the map. That was a pretty damn good basketball team. But nobody has picked it up since, and the conference has become a joke.

hugepatsfan
07-02-2017, 03:20 PM
The West teams need to get better to make the playoffs and win round(s). The East is so bad that you don't.

If BOS traded for Butler,they'd be expected to lose to CLE in the ECF. If they don't get Butler, people still expect them to lose in the ECF to CLE (unless a team right behind them makes a move forward, which no one has).

MIN traded for Butler and now people expect them to push for the 2nd round. If they didn't trade for Butler people would expect them to miss the playoffs.

Is it a surprise which team felt more compelled to push their future chips in? Deep down these teams in the West know they aren't ****ing with GS but they gotta scratch and claw to make the playoffs, win rounds and get that money behind GS. The East is so ****ing trash that you can make it and win rounds behind CLE without doing that. If you're a GM in the East why are you gonna spend a bunch of future chips to still end up in the same spot or if you're an owner why are going to spend more luxury tax money to end up in the same spot?

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 03:31 PM
There is no problem. It will normalize itself at some point. And if it doesn't, well then the "East" isn't its on entity so it can't do anything to fix "a problem"

Scoots
07-02-2017, 03:36 PM
Mmm... I think it's ridiculous to devalue Lebron's legacy just because he played in a conference that sucked. He has to worry about playing well on the court and recruiting and playing GM for his own teams. He shouldn't have to do it for opposing teams as well.

And, like I said in my original post, Lebron HAS had to deal with some really tough teams in the East over his career. But he just hasn't had any really competition in the conference since George's Pacers fell off the map. That was a pretty damn good basketball team. But nobody has picked it up since, and the conference has become a joke.

If you are going to value LeBron making it to finals after finals after finals, and I do. Then the weight of those finals appearances has to suffer a little when you consider the difficulty of him doing so being less than if he was on the other side. I didn't say he was bad, far from it, he's easily the best player of his generation ... just that it costs him a little the East being so incredibly bad on average over his career.

How that logic is "ridiculous" I don't get.

nastynice
07-02-2017, 03:37 PM
There is no problem. It will normalize itself at some point. And if it doesn't, well then the "East" isn't its on entity so it can't do anything to fix "a problem"

The ***** been lopsided almost since the late 90's, with the exception of a few decent squads. Looked like it was normalizing, but it's not, the east looks like **** again. What's new. That conference is a joke, and I'll finally give in, but maybe at this point playoffs shouldn't be split by east and west. It's like watching two diff leagues

nastynice
07-02-2017, 03:38 PM
If you are going to value LeBron making it to finals after finals after finals, and I do. Then the weight of those finals appearances has to suffer a little when you consider the difficulty of him doing so being less than if he was on the other side. I didn't say he was bad, far from it, he's easily the best player of his generation ... just that it costs him a little the East being so incredibly bad on average over his career.

How that logic is "ridiculous" I don't get.

Yea, the amount of finals he made just isn't too impressive. It's impressive as a stat, but actually looking at what it is, there's nothing impressive about it.

The damn Grizzlies woulda made 8 straight finals if they were in the east...

Scoots
07-02-2017, 03:39 PM
The West teams need to get better to make the playoffs and win round(s). The East is so bad that you don't.

If BOS traded for Butler,they'd be expected to lose to CLE in the ECF. If they don't get Butler, people still expect them to lose in the ECF to CLE (unless a team right behind them makes a move forward, which no one has).

MIN traded for Butler and now people expect them to push for the 2nd round. If they didn't trade for Butler people would expect them to miss the playoffs.

Is it a surprise which team felt more compelled to push their future chips in? Deep down these teams in the West know they aren't ****ing with GS but they gotta scratch and claw to make the playoffs, win rounds and get that money behind GS. The East is so ****ing trash that you can make it and win rounds behind CLE without doing that. If you're a GM in the East why are you gonna spend a bunch of future chips to still end up in the same spot or if you're an owner why are going to spend more luxury tax money to end up in the same spot?

So theoretically, the West, putting their future chips on the table now, will fade and the East, holding back and building for the long haul, will improve and overtake the West ... eventually. It's been a long long time though and it looked like it was starting to swing a couple years ago and now it's swung back again.

Scoots
07-02-2017, 03:41 PM
Yea, the amount of finals he made just isn't too impressive. It's impressive as a stat, but actually looking at what it is, there's nothing impressive about it.

The damn Grizzlies woulda made 8 straight finals if they were in the east...

I'm not saying it's not impressive ... to me it absolutely is impressive. It's just a little less impressive than it would be if he had to go through a much tougher conference each year.

mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 03:43 PM
There is no problem. It will normalize itself at some point. And if it doesn't, well then the "East" isn't its on entity so it can't do anything to fix "a problem"

How is it not a problem? If half of your league is terrible and not competitive with the other half, it's a legitimate concern. And while the East as a whole can't do anything about it because it's not an entity, the league certainly can. If the conference can't do much better than this, there should be a serious conversation about realignment or maybe even doing away with conferences altogether. I realize that seems extreme compared to other professional sports in the U.S., but there's actually some level of parity in the other leagues and there isn't such a massive discrepancy in talent.

Jamiecballer
07-02-2017, 03:47 PM
Everyone in the east has retreated to their bunker until hurricane gstate / LeBron passes.

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mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 03:51 PM
If you are going to value LeBron making it to finals after finals after finals, and I do. Then the weight of those finals appearances has to suffer a little when you consider the difficulty of him doing so being less than if he was on the other side. I didn't say he was bad, far from it, he's easily the best player of his generation ... just that it costs him a little the East being so incredibly bad on average over his career.

How that logic is "ridiculous" I don't get.

OK. But then the same logic should apply for Lebron's Finals record for facing superior talent and playing for teams that have historically been underdogs in the majority of his Finals appearances. Personally I don't take Finals appearances or Finals record that seriously. Because ultimately it's a team sport. I care more about how you performed in the postseason and whether you were capable of playing big in big moments, which he absolutely has proven he can do, arguably better than any player in the history of professional basketball.

Regardless of who Lebron played, his postseason numbers have been downright awesome.

warfelg
07-02-2017, 03:59 PM
So there's a couple of things going into this here:

~The east has some poorly run franchises. No question about that. It's also got some impatient owners in the east as well. SVG (Detroit), Billy King(Formerly Nets), Forman (Bulls), Hammond (Magic), Mills (Knicks) and by extension Phil. They have done their job in KILLING their franchises with hard to move contracts, not building good teams, and wanting to make playoffs over build long term.

~The GM's and Owners in the east seems more petty than GM's and Owners in the west. Look no further than these two examples: When Iggy let Denver know he wanted to sign with OKC, the Nuggets worked out a trade that got them 3 players and some picks. The Jazz helped out too and they got a pick (Turned into Rodney Hood). It helped Denver do a mini-on-the-fly rebuild. Meanwhile in the East the Pacers seemingly turned town better deals from EC teams just to make sure PG13 couldn't come back to haunt them. That's Petty.

~Wealth of ownership. Yes this plays in. Owners in the west on average have higher personal value. So they are more willing to go into the tax, build nicer training facilities, spend on nicer things for players.

Onto on court reasons:
~The east got old fast. The C's big 3 got old quick. The Hawks got old and fell apart fast. The fall of Bosh & Wade. The Bulls with Noah, Gibson, and Rose.

Couple that with the east continually using retread players to build their teams with and you get teams that aren't as good.

~The east plays an older style game. The east still for a majority plays a walk it up, pick and roll, iso heavy game. Yea some teams have gone a little more to spread and pass (Boston, Philly, Cleveland) but for the most part they haven't fully evolved. For a player (just listen to Durant and other players on this) a space and pace system is more run. They aren't endlessly fighting for a shot possession after possession.

LA_Raiders
07-02-2017, 04:08 PM
The easy has been a joke for a while now, that is the reason LeBron stays there, since it is the easiest road to the finals. Can't believe the teams that are closer to the Cavs like wash, Bos, and Tor, have not done **** to improve. ****ing disappointed, there is no competition in the easy...

cmellofan15
07-02-2017, 04:14 PM
Who cares lmao the GSW just damn near swept through the entire playoffs and will probably do the same next year. And we are worried about the East?

KobeOwnSU
07-02-2017, 04:16 PM
They need to just do away with conferences. Make schedules based on geographical location and move in from this outdated formation. Top 16 make the playoffs with the first round being best of 5.

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mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 04:19 PM
So there's a couple of things going into this here:

~The east has some poorly run franchises. No question about that. It's also got some impatient owners in the east as well. SVG (Detroit), Billy King(Formerly Nets), Forman (Bulls), Hammond (Magic), Mills (Knicks) and by extension Phil. They have done their job in KILLING their franchises with hard to move contracts, not building good teams, and wanting to make playoffs over build long term.

~The GM's and Owners in the east seems more petty than GM's and Owners in the west. Look no further than these two examples: When Iggy let Denver know he wanted to sign with OKC, the Nuggets worked out a trade that got them 3 players and some picks. The Jazz helped out too and they got a pick (Turned into Rodney Hood). It helped Denver do a mini-on-the-fly rebuild. Meanwhile in the East the Pacers seemingly turned town better deals from EC teams just to make sure PG13 couldn't come back to haunt them. That's Petty.

~Wealth of ownership. Yes this plays in. Owners in the west on average have higher personal value. So they are more willing to go into the tax, build nicer training facilities, spend on nicer things for players.

Onto on court reasons:
~The east got old fast. The C's big 3 got old quick. The Hawks got old and fell apart fast. The fall of Bosh & Wade. The Bulls with Noah, Gibson, and Rose.

Couple that with the east continually using retread players to build their teams with and you get teams that aren't as good.

~The east plays an older style game. The east still for a majority plays a walk it up, pick and roll, iso heavy game. Yea some teams have gone a little more to spread and pass (Boston, Philly, Cleveland) but for the most part they haven't fully evolved. For a player (just listen to Durant and other players on this) a space and pace system is more run. They aren't endlessly fighting for a shot possession after possession.
Great post. These are all really good points.

mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 04:22 PM
They need to just do away with conferences. Make schedules based on geographical location and move in from this outdated formation. Top 16 make the playoffs with the first round being best of 5.

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I would absolutely love this. It would seem extreme to us, but it would lead to a more interesting postseason and more competitive series.

warfelg
07-02-2017, 04:28 PM
Great post. These are all really good points.

There also is the LeBron of it all, and players and GM's for some reason rather wait him out than take him on. There's the fact that the first 2 "super teams" (Boston and Miami) were in the east forcing many teams (Charlotte, Milwaukee, Philly) to rebuild and they haven't 100% paid off yet. Stars that were/are in the east seem less into recruiting that stars in the west.

warfelg
07-02-2017, 04:31 PM
I would absolutely love this. It would seem extreme to us, but it would lead to a more interesting postseason and more competitive series.

I'm not for it. When the east was strong and the west was weak this wasn't an option. Shouldn't be now.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 04:35 PM
How is it not a problem? If half of your league is terrible and not competitive with the other half, it's a legitimate concern. And while the East as a whole can't do anything about it because it's not an entity, the league certainly can. If the conference can't do much better than this, there should be a serious conversation about realignment or maybe even doing away with conferences altogether. I realize that seems extreme compared to other professional sports in the U.S., but there's actually some level of parity in the other leagues and there isn't such a massive discrepancy in talent.

30 teams are established into 2 conferences and are given the same amount of cap and all have to follow the same rules. If the players choose to go to places that leads to an imbalance, so be it. That's their choice.

This isn't grade 5 basketball where Silver picks the teams and the matchups to make it "fair". Unless you are implementing a system where the league is realigned every X amount of years (regardless of whether it needs to be aligned or not), why should we give 1 man the power to decide what he views as "fair".

mightybosstone
07-02-2017, 04:42 PM
I'm not for it. When the east was strong and the west was weak this wasn't an option. Shouldn't be now.

If anything, you just kinda made my point for me, though. Doesn't it kind of always seem like there's competitive imbalance in the NBA? One conference always seems stronger than the other, which leads to easier paths for some teams and tougher competition for others. If you do away with conferences, then everybody's playoff paths are determined solely on their merit. The team with the 6th or 7th best record in the best conference no longer has to face the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NBA in the first round. And the team with the 1st or 2nd best record in the weaker conference no longer gets to beat up on sub-.500 teams.

The way the NBA is, where a handful of players can completely shift the balance of power between conferences, and with players having so much more control over where they play, this seems like a perfect solution.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 04:42 PM
The ***** been lopsided almost since the late 90's, with the exception of a few decent squads. Looked like it was normalizing, but it's not, the east looks like **** again. What's new. That conference is a joke, and I'll finally give in, but maybe at this point playoffs shouldn't be split by east and west. It's like watching two diff leagues

West has been stronger longer than normal (where the East and West flipped back and forth like every 10 years before) but I am confident at some point, big market teams like NY, Brooklyn, 76ers, Bulls will rise again while small market teams like Memphis, Utah, Wolves and OKC will fall back down. And if they don't well that's probably because the players chose not to go there.

GREATNESS ONE
07-02-2017, 04:45 PM
But but but Magic played against worse competition in the 80's :laugh2:

****ing pathetic. They should just skip the Eastern conference playoffs, and just have Cavs ready for the winner of the West.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 04:53 PM
Eliminating conferences will just result in it being top heavy, especially with players having the ability to force their way to certain teams.

The reason the West is so stacked is because they need to compete with the Warriors. So if you people really want to have competitive balance, implement a hard cap to make it impossible for players to switch around.

JasonJohnHorn
07-02-2017, 05:00 PM
Well... there will be many free agents open next year... and if Melo gets a buy-out, and the Heat (or somebody) clear their cap space again, we could see CP3, Melo, LBJ, and Wade all on the same team.

Boston and Cleveland look like they will maintain or improve, and the Raptors and Wizards should both be about as good as they were last year (Raps not quite, Wiz a little better).

But it's not like the East hasn't been getting picks galore during the last few seasons. I mean... the 76ers should be the Warriors 2.0 by now given how many top five picks they've gotten over the last five seasons.


But seriously... you can't blame the league's cap rules or anything like that when this is just a matter of teams making horrible moves (BK) or intentionally moving their guys out west to weaken the pool of talent in the east as they rebuild (Chi, Ind).

Boston may pilfer Hayward yet though.

KB24PG16
07-02-2017, 05:26 PM
Eliminating conferences will just result in it being top heavy, especially with players having the ability to force their way to certain teams.

The reason the West is so stacked is because they need to compete with the Warriors. So if you people really want to have competitive balance, implement a hard cap to make it impossible for players to switch around.

the top team in the east outside of the cavs, is unwilling to compete with them and would rather stack assets.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 05:32 PM
the top team in the east outside of the cavs, is unwilling to compete with them and would rather stack assets.

I suppose it's hard to compete when the players don't want to stay or can't convince others to come there. But again, that's the player's choice.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-02-2017, 05:36 PM
Healthy Bucks team will be gravy in the east. We will have a healthy Middleton right away this season and Parker back in February. Also more shooters and length added with the draft. Even though reports are we are shopping Moose again. Kinda worried its a salary cap move and get junk back.

Vee-Rex
07-02-2017, 05:38 PM
The West has beat the East in head-2-head record in 17 of the last 18 NBA seasons. It's not really anything new. I honestly think weather has an impact on free agent destinations. FAR more Western teams are in cities with great/warm weather (Both LAs, GS, Dallas, Houston, SA, SAC, etc...) compared to the East. Naturally, more free agents choose those cities. That will never change.

I'm interested in a 1-16 playoffs just for the hell of it, but it won't mean **** until Eastern teams start drafting well and making great front office decisions. Warfelg summed it up nicely, where teams like Brooklyn, New York, Orlando, Detroit, and Chicago have not done very well with their offseasons in the last 10 years.

But you know what? Thems just the breaks. Fans of western conference teams wanna cry now? Try being a fan of the Cavs who hadn't done **** since the late 80's and had to luck (and tank) into the #1 overall in 2003 to draft LeBron. Try being a fan in a city with cold weather and have to hear from draft prospects that they don't want to go there because of it.

The West has been beating the hell out of the East in head-2-head record for the last 18 years, yet it's suddenly an enormous problem now when fans of teams in the West are worried about who they have to face in the playoffs. Yeah, we can see all through that.

Season Conf. Reg. season Champion
2016-17 West Plus 42 Golden State (West)
2015-16 West Plus 14 Cleveland (East)
2014-15 West Plus 76 Golden State (West)
2013-14 West Plus 118 San Antonio (West)
2012-13 West Plus 74 Miami (East)
2011-12 West Plus 42 Miami (East)
2010-11 West Plus 72 Dallas (West)
2009-10 West Plus 42 LA Lakers (West)
2008-09 East Plus 12 LA Lakers (West)
2007-08 West Plus 66 Boston (East)
2006-07 West Plus 64 San Antonio (West)
2005-06 West Plus 54 Miami (East)
2004-05 West Plus 62 San Antonio (West)
2003-04 West Plus 112 Detroit (East)
2002-03 West Plus 80 San Antonio (West)
2001-02 West Plus 44 LA Lakers (West)
2000-01 West Plus 98 LA Lakers (West)
1999-00 West Plus 34 LA Lakers (West)
1998-99 East Plus 8 San Antonio (West)

warfelg
07-02-2017, 05:39 PM
Well... there will be many free agents open next year... and if Melo gets a buy-out, and the Heat (or somebody) clear their cap space again, we could see CP3, Melo, LBJ, and Wade all on the same team.

Boston and Cleveland look like they will maintain or improve, and the Raptors and Wizards should both be about as good as they were last year (Raps not quite, Wiz a little better).

But it's not like the East hasn't been getting picks galore during the last few seasons. I mean... the 76ers should be the Warriors 2.0 by now given how many top five picks they've gotten over the last five seasons.


But seriously... you can't blame the league's cap rules or anything like that when this is just a matter of teams making horrible moves (BK) or intentionally moving their guys out west to weaken the pool of talent in the east as they rebuild (Chi, Ind).

Boston may pilfer Hayward yet though.

I mean, lets even look at that picks thing the last few years for top 10 picks (original team picks):
2017 - 6 picks were from west teams, 4 from east
2016 - 6 from west, 4 from east
2015 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2014 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2013 - 5 from west, 5 from east
2012 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2011 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2010 - 4 from west, 6 from east

So in the last 7 drafts, the east has originated only 3 more top ten picks than the west.

Scoots
07-02-2017, 05:46 PM
The only place that can pay CP3 is Houston. He's not leaving unless they screw him over.

aman_13
07-02-2017, 06:09 PM
For real though, this is a temporary issue. The Bucks and Sixers are coming

The Cavs, Celtics, Raptors and Wizards are still there.

The Hornets will be there as well. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

PG left a bad team, Butler left a bad team, Milsap is about to leave a bad team. It's not like we are seeing less contenders in the east.

aman_13
07-02-2017, 06:12 PM
The West got tougher but that's what happens when the top team is one of the greatest ever.

COOLbeans
07-02-2017, 06:40 PM
They should restructure the playoffs to the top 16 teams and call it a day

daleja424
07-02-2017, 07:21 PM
Do we even need a conference system? Everyone plays everyone anyways...

Extend the NBA season to 87 games and just have everyone play everyone else 3 times each. Then take the top 16 seeds and create a bracket. And lets go back to best of 5 while we are at it (making up for the increased number of regular season games).

I feel like the conference system was designed for an era when travel was more difficult.... at this point... who cares?

daleja424
07-02-2017, 07:22 PM
I give you one more... if you want to do away with all these bottom feeders....stop making tanking so advantageous.

I say equal weight lottery for all 14 teams that miss the playoffs... Lets promote continued competition instead of rewarding tanking.

SiteWolf
07-02-2017, 08:00 PM
it's more than just tanking, also gotta make it easier for smaller market teams to retain their stars....like a wider gap between what a team can offer its own and what other teams can......otherwise, unless you hit like GS did, you lose 'em before you can build a championship team if you're not a 'sexy' market.....I mean who wanted to go to GS before they hit on Curry/Thompson/Green at the same time?

daleja424
07-02-2017, 08:03 PM
it's more than just tanking, also gotta make it easier for smaller market teams to retain their stars....like a wider gap between what a team can offer its own and what other teams can......otherwise, unless you hit like GS did, you lose 'em before you can build a championship team if you're not a 'sexy' market.....I mean who wanted to go to GS before they hit on Curry/Thompson/Green at the same time?

But I think you just contradicted your point... small markets in fact CAN succeed if they do it right. (San Antonio, Golden State, Cleveland... heck even look at what Minnesota is doing right now).

And at the same time the Lakers, Knicks, and Bulls are all terrible... in probably the three biggest markets on the planet.

It really isn't all about markets... it is about getting the right guys running the team, getting a good coach, and making good decisions.

effen5
07-02-2017, 08:13 PM
We can just pencil in the cavs team in the all star game for the east.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-02-2017, 08:21 PM
The cause for the imbalance is that teams are hoardong stars. Eliminating conferences doesnt solve anything.

You people do realize instead of an imbalanced West/East scenario, that eliminating conferences jsut turns it into a top heavy league?

It allows the rich to get richer and to remain richer.

warfelg
07-02-2017, 08:22 PM
it's more than just tanking, also gotta make it easier for smaller market teams to retain their stars....like a wider gap between what a team can offer its own and what other teams can......otherwise, unless you hit like GS did, you lose 'em before you can build a championship team if you're not a 'sexy' market.....I mean who wanted to go to GS before they hit on Curry/Thompson/Green at the same time?

Well it's not just that, because small market teams will end up trading those guys to avoid the tax. There needs to be something in place to encourage the owners to keep those players too.

LA_Raiders
07-02-2017, 11:47 PM
Milsap to the west. Clev will make the finals again with no problems.

aman_13
07-02-2017, 11:50 PM
Milsap to the west. Clev will make the finals again with no problems.

Just like they have had the last several yrs. The Eastern Conference landscape really hasn't changed that much.

LA_Raiders
07-02-2017, 11:57 PM
Can't believe the easy are just sitting around waiting for some freebies.

More-Than-Most
07-03-2017, 12:56 AM
people really need to stop underrating Boston/Raptors/Wizards. After that yea... West is stronger no doubt but saying 6-10 would beat those 3 teams is just so disrespectful and not smart.

More-Than-Most
07-03-2017, 12:58 AM
Milsap to the west. Clev will make the finals again with no problems.

um any team with lebron is making it to the finals every year. I cant wait to see if lebron leaves for a west super power how you people quickly change your tune from well its the east to well now he is on a loaded team out west.

More-Than-Most
07-03-2017, 01:02 AM
The West has beat the East in head-2-head record in 17 of the last 18 NBA seasons. It's not really anything new. I honestly think weather has an impact on free agent destinations. FAR more Western teams are in cities with great/warm weather (Both LAs, GS, Dallas, Houston, SA, SAC, etc...) compared to the East. Naturally, more free agents choose those cities. That will never change.

I'm interested in a 1-16 playoffs just for the hell of it, but it won't mean **** until Eastern teams start drafting well and making great front office decisions. Warfelg summed it up nicely, where teams like Brooklyn, New York, Orlando, Detroit, and Chicago have not done very well with their offseasons in the last 10 years.

But you know what? Thems just the breaks. Fans of western conference teams wanna cry now? Try being a fan of the Cavs who hadn't done **** since the late 80's and had to luck (and tank) into the #1 overall in 2003 to draft LeBron. Try being a fan in a city with cold weather and have to hear from draft prospects that they don't want to go there because of it.

The West has been beating the hell out of the East in head-2-head record for the last 18 years, yet it's suddenly an enormous problem now when fans of teams in the West are worried about who they have to face in the playoffs. Yeah, we can see all through that.

Season Conf. Reg. season Champion
2016-17 West Plus 42 Golden State (West)
2015-16 West Plus 14 Cleveland (East)
2014-15 West Plus 76 Golden State (West)
2013-14 West Plus 118 San Antonio (West)
2012-13 West Plus 74 Miami (East)
2011-12 West Plus 42 Miami (East)
2010-11 West Plus 72 Dallas (West)
2009-10 West Plus 42 LA Lakers (West)
2008-09 East Plus 12 LA Lakers (West)
2007-08 West Plus 66 Boston (East)
2006-07 West Plus 64 San Antonio (West)
2005-06 West Plus 54 Miami (East)
2004-05 West Plus 62 San Antonio (West)
2003-04 West Plus 112 Detroit (East)
2002-03 West Plus 80 San Antonio (West)
2001-02 West Plus 44 LA Lakers (West)
2000-01 West Plus 98 LA Lakers (West)
1999-00 West Plus 34 LA Lakers (West)
1998-99 East Plus 8 San Antonio (West)

you are wasting your time.. the majority just hate lebron... I hope we goes west so they can ***** about him being on a stacked team out west...

People think the cavs have it easy... I am curious who has it Easier... the cavs and their 2 trick pony in kyrie and lebron out east or having 4 top 15 players out west in the warriors... If you put lebron on the warriors and durant on the cavs the cavs dont beat Boston.

smith&wesson
07-03-2017, 01:25 AM
We can just pencil in the cavs team in the all star game for the east.

Plenty of all stars in the east..

Lebron
Wall
Derozan
Irving
Giannis
Thomas
Lowry
Love
Walker
All made the allstar team last year.

Possible new candidates
Embid
Prozingis
Whiteside

Possible returns
Wade
Melo
Howard

And if Hayward goes to the Heat or Celtics hes a shoe in

Sure the West is better but is that anything new ?

Scoots
07-03-2017, 01:31 AM
I mean, lets even look at that picks thing the last few years for top 10 picks (original team picks):
2017 - 6 picks were from west teams, 4 from east
2016 - 6 from west, 4 from east
2015 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2014 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2013 - 5 from west, 5 from east
2012 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2011 - 4 from west, 6 from east
2010 - 4 from west, 6 from east

So in the last 7 drafts, the east has originated only 3 more top ten picks than the west.

How many of those picks are still in the NBA, and in what conferences? I wonder what we could learn about draft quality and player development by conference by that info?

Scoots
07-03-2017, 01:35 AM
Well it's not just that, because small market teams will end up trading those guys to avoid the tax. There needs to be something in place to encourage the owners to keep those players too.

How about the 2nd contract after at least 3 years of service of a player on his original team should only count 80% on the tax, and the 3rd contract 60%. That would encourage teams to keep their own players and save them money if they overpay.

Scoots
07-03-2017, 01:38 AM
people really need to stop underrating Boston/Raptors/Wizards. After that yea... West is stronger no doubt but saying 6-10 would beat those 3 teams is just so disrespectful and not smart.

I don't think 6-10 in the West would steamroll the 2-4 teams in the East ... but I think the Blazers would have given the Raptors all they could handle and could beat them.

I agree that the Wizards are way underrated.

Scoots
07-03-2017, 01:41 AM
you are wasting your time.. the majority just hate lebron... I hope we goes west so they can ***** about him being on a stacked team out west...

People think the cavs have it easy... I am curious who has it Easier... the cavs and their 2 trick pony in kyrie and lebron out east or having 4 top 15 players out west in the warriors... If you put lebron on the warriors and durant on the cavs the cavs dont beat Boston.

1. re "Wasting your time" Please don't respond to dumb posters who are only out to rile people up. Seriously, if nobody responded they would either grow up and really join in discussion or they will leave.

2. If you build a team around LeBron then of course it will struggle without him. If the Cavs had spent the last 3 years building around KD my guess is they would look a lot different, but that's so many variables it's not really worthy of debate.

warfelg
07-03-2017, 07:33 AM
How many of those picks are still in the NBA, and in what conferences? I wonder what we could learn about draft quality and player development by conference by that info?

I do remember off of the top of my head that of those picks the west got 4 all stars, the east got 5 (and now one has been traded). I can look into who's still in the NBA and who's with their original team.

warfelg
07-03-2017, 07:35 AM
How about the 2nd contract after at least 3 years of service of a player on his original team should only count 80% on the tax, and the 3rd contract 60%. That would encourage teams to keep their own players and save them money if they overpay.

I'm not really sure that changes things tbh. That encourages teams with the ability to spend to spend even more.

sammyvine
07-03-2017, 09:58 AM
The East is a joke and will be unwatchable
How are people trying to say otherwise

OKC, Spurs, Houston will not beat GSW but they will at least make it watchable. Harden and CP3 / George/ Westbrook on talent alone will make the games at least fun
Who the hell are going to challenge the Cavs?

The celtics and wizards are pretenders, and the raptors are a joke full stop.

mike_noodles
07-03-2017, 10:00 AM
They should realign. Do like NFL and MLB. An American Conference and a National Conference and have three divisions spanning the country. Problem solved.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2017, 11:20 AM
So theoretically, the West, putting their future chips on the table now, will fade and the East, holding back and building for the long haul, will improve and overtake the West ... eventually. It's been a long long time though and it looked like it was starting to swing a couple years ago and now it's swung back again.

No there is no guaranteed "swing". The East needs to draft better.

The Eastern Conference drafted Lebron obviously. Kyrie, Giannis too. Jimmy Butler and Paul George (but they got traded to the West).

The West has drafted Curry, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Westy, CP3, Blake, Jokic, Love, IT4, Klay, Draymond, AD, Cousins, KAT, etc.

Obviously a few of those West guys have changed teams either in the West or to the East (Love, IT4). But if you look at geography, a player trying to leave his drafted team through FA or force a trade somewhere is more likely to stay West. Other than MIA having a great recruiting pitch and NY if they weren't such a crap franchise, the East just isn't very attractive to FAs. Most of these guys would prefer to be on the West unless you draft a superstar in the East, get him to stay and he draws players in.

The East just need to draft better. We can't have such a disproportionate amount of the superstar talent starting in the West. That's what the difference is. For as loaded as the West is compared to the East, if you get past the top 1-2 players on each team it's all really the same. It's not that the East has complete garbage teams while the West has super deep, unbeatable rosters. It's just that they have all the Superstars because they start out West and gravitate there. East needs to catch up.

mike_noodles
07-03-2017, 12:40 PM
No there is no guaranteed "swing". The East needs to draft better.

The Eastern Conference drafted Lebron obviously. Kyrie, Giannis too. Jimmy Butler and Paul George (but they got traded to the West).

The West has drafted Curry, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Westy, CP3, Blake, Jokic, Love, IT4, Klay, Draymond, AD, Cousins, KAT, etc.

Obviously a few of those West guys have changed teams either in the West or to the East (Love, IT4). But if you look at geography, a player trying to leave his drafted team through FA or force a trade somewhere is more likely to stay West. Other than MIA having a great recruiting pitch and NY if they weren't such a crap franchise, the East just isn't very attractive to FAs. Most of these guys would prefer to be on the West unless you draft a superstar in the East, get him to stay and he draws players in.

The East just need to draft better. We can't have such a disproportionate amount of the superstar talent starting in the West. That's what the difference is. For as loaded as the West is compared to the East, if you get past the top 1-2 players on each team it's all really the same. It's not that the East has complete garbage teams while the West has super deep, unbeatable rosters. It's just that they have all the Superstars because they start out West and gravitate there. East needs to catch up.

I had to laugh at the names you picked. Most cherry picked list in a good while. What about Wade, Derozan, Horford, Wall, Beal, Porter, Wiggins, Embiid, Parker. All drafted in the East. Some of them have even signed extensions in the East. East can never catch up in having nice weather during the winter months.

nastynice
07-03-2017, 12:58 PM
Plenty of all stars in the east..

Lebron
Wall
Derozan
Irving
Giannis
Thomas
Lowry
Love
Walker
All made the allstar team last year.

Possible new candidates
Embid
Prozingis
Whiteside

Possible returns
Wade
Melo
Howard

And if Hayward goes to the Heat or Celtics hes a shoe in

Sure the West is better but is that anything new ?

Wade, melo, Howard?!

That just tells you the state of the east, lol

aman_13
07-03-2017, 01:19 PM
So the teams that no one took serious last yr got worse. Again, nothing has changed in the East. The Cavs are still the clear number one team and will be in the finals again. Just like they were the last couple yrs. Hopefully for casual fans, the Bucks take another step forward and maybe the Sixers surprise us all.

For all the talk about the strong west, they are all playing for second place. We get to see better basketball but that's really been the case anyway for the last several yrs.

ewing
07-03-2017, 01:23 PM
people really need to stop underrating Boston/Raptors/Wizards. After that yea... West is stronger no doubt but saying 6-10 would beat those 3 teams is just so disrespectful and not smart.

are you capable of taking a stance that doesn't prop up LeBron?

kdspurman
07-03-2017, 02:59 PM
um any team with lebron is making it to the finals every year. I cant wait to see if lebron leaves for a west super power how you people quickly change your tune from well its the east to well now he is on a loaded team out west.

Nah man lol

hugepatsfan
07-03-2017, 03:06 PM
I had to laugh at the names you picked. Most cherry picked list in a good while. What about Wade, Derozan, Horford, Wall, Beal, Porter, Wiggins, Embiid, Parker. All drafted in the East. Some of them have even signed extensions in the East. East can never catch up in having nice weather during the winter months.

Wade/Horford are older but sure, I guess fringe all stars since each made it just 2 years ago. I forgot DeRozen and especially Wall. Beal I guess you can throw on the list. Wiggins/Parker too I guess. Embiid hasn't played even half a season but looks to be that caliber of player. I don't think Porter is an all star at all.

Really though we're getting far down the list. The best teams in the NBA 9 times out of 10 are determined by who has the TOP players - I mean the cream of the crop. And the West has them.

Look at HOU. Forget the top 2 players in Harden and CP3. Their next players are Ariza, Gordon, Anderson, Capela. Is that any better than what TOR has besides Lowry/DeRozen? BOS behind IT/Horford? No. And the same applies to OKC with Westy/PG. Once you get past the top 2-3 players on the roster the West isn't much different from the West. It's just that the top 2-3 players on the Western teams are better than the East's pretty much across the board. That's what's causing the disparity in conferences and the West has more because they've done a better job drafting them.

JLynn943
07-03-2017, 03:24 PM
I wish Sacramento could play in the East this year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
07-03-2017, 03:37 PM
https://scontent.fosu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19598844_1977490392535678_441073547110165542_n.jpg ?oh=d244b8370021f3f6c4cb135e1c310cf5&oe=59CB9039

Scoots
07-03-2017, 03:59 PM
I'm not really sure that changes things tbh. That encourages teams with the ability to spend to spend even more.

But it also means small market teams are more able to keep every one of their draft picks as long as they want.

Scoots
07-03-2017, 04:04 PM
No there is no guaranteed "swing". The East needs to draft better.

The Eastern Conference drafted Lebron obviously. Kyrie, Giannis too. Jimmy Butler and Paul George (but they got traded to the West).

The West has drafted Curry, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Westy, CP3, Blake, Jokic, Love, IT4, Klay, Draymond, AD, Cousins, KAT, etc.

Obviously a few of those West guys have changed teams either in the West or to the East (Love, IT4). But if you look at geography, a player trying to leave his drafted team through FA or force a trade somewhere is more likely to stay West. Other than MIA having a great recruiting pitch and NY if they weren't such a crap franchise, the East just isn't very attractive to FAs. Most of these guys would prefer to be on the West unless you draft a superstar in the East, get him to stay and he draws players in.

The East just need to draft better. We can't have such a disproportionate amount of the superstar talent starting in the West. That's what the difference is. For as loaded as the West is compared to the East, if you get past the top 1-2 players on each team it's all really the same. It's not that the East has complete garbage teams while the West has super deep, unbeatable rosters. It's just that they have all the Superstars because they start out West and gravitate there. East needs to catch up.

The odds say it will swing back ... eventually better owners, better GMs, or just plain stupid luck gets it done.

Scoots
07-03-2017, 04:05 PM
I had to laugh at the names you picked. Most cherry picked list in a good while. What about Wade, Derozan, Horford, Wall, Beal, Porter, Wiggins, Embiid, Parker. All drafted in the East. Some of them have even signed extensions in the East. East can never catch up in having nice weather during the winter months.

It can't be blamed on the weather ... Minnesota is in the "West" and they are the new super team.

canzano55
07-03-2017, 04:06 PM
"waaaaah waaaaahh - I live in California/Texas/Louisiana and its not fair that the West is sooo competetive - waaaaah"!

Same complaining every godman year.

How about this? Get rid of the friggen salary cap and then lets see what happens.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Lebron for once.

Scoots
07-03-2017, 04:17 PM
"waaaaah waaaaahh - I live in California/Texas/Louisiana and its not fair that the West is sooo competetive - waaaaah"!

Same complaining every godman year.

How about this? Get rid of the friggen salary cap and then lets see what happens.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Lebron for once.

Noticing and discussing is not the same as whining or complaining.

tredigs
07-03-2017, 04:18 PM
The East got JJ Reddick guys, they're in good hands.

Jokes aside, he is going to be in the All Star race (he won't make it but he will be in the mix). Your 2017 Eastern Conference ladies and gentlemen.

tredigs
07-03-2017, 04:20 PM
"waaaaah waaaaahh - I live in California/Texas/Louisiana and its not fair that the West is sooo competetive - waaaaah"!

Same complaining every godman year.

How about this? Get rid of the friggen salary cap and then lets see what happens.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Lebron for once.

It's the same joke every year because the East is the same joke every year. I was a die hard Warriors fan when they were pushing 50 wins and missing the playoffs. I did not whine, but facts are facts.

canzano55
07-03-2017, 04:24 PM
Noticing and discussing is not the same as whining or complaining.

I read through the thread and it reads like a lot of *****ing and moaning.

I've been following a baseball team that is in the same division as the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Baltimore Orioles etc and you don't hear me complaining.

And even if I did complain, what am I gonna do? Write a letter to MLB management?

"Dear MLB,

This division friggen sucks - please put us in the National League, I beg you.

Signed,


A Blue Jays fan".....

hugepatsfan
07-03-2017, 04:30 PM
It can't be blamed on the weather ... Minnesota is in the "West" and they are the new super team.

Not on account of the FAs they signed though.

Nothing is ever true 100%. But on average, the West has more FA destination hot spots. The more important thing though, like I've said is that they draft the elite players more than the East. Ultimately, that's the equalizer - teams that can compete. But you combine more elite players in place with more desirable destinations and it helps to stack the West. Even when those elite players leave the West the West has better destinations and better players so that's more often where they sign/force themselves to be traded.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-03-2017, 04:36 PM
The East got JJ Reddick guys, they're in good hands.

Jokes aside, he is going to be in the All Star race (he won't make it but he will be in the mix). Your 2017 Eastern Conference ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah my Bucks could have like almost 3 All Stars this year. But Parker wont be back till February so he wont have enough games played. If Middleton stays healthy he should easily be in. Figure Bucks probably stumble on nearly 50 wins in the weak east. With Butler,PG13,Millsap in the west. East All Stars will have plenty of new faces. Then if Melo is traded to Rockets. That's another spot open.

tredigs
07-03-2017, 06:03 PM
Yeah my Bucks could have like almost 3 All Stars this year. But Parker wont be back till February so he wont have enough games played. If Middleton stays healthy he should easily be in. Figure Bucks probably stumble on nearly 50 wins in the weak east. With Butler,PG13,Millsap in the west. East All Stars will have plenty of new faces. Then if Melo is traded to Rockets. That's another spot open.

Downside of such a weak conference talent wise is that guys like Middleton do in fact become All Stars and end up costing more money/harder to keep on their contract negotiations. A guy like Klay will likely no longer be an All Star in the West. Makes him cheaper.

aman_13
07-03-2017, 06:11 PM
Noticing and discussing is not the same as whining or complaining.

I read through the thread and it reads like a lot of *****ing and moaning.

I've been following a baseball team that is in the same division as the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Baltimore Orioles etc and you don't hear me complaining.

And even if I did complain, what am I gonna do? Write a letter to MLB management?

"Dear MLB,

This division friggen sucks - please put us in the National League, I beg you.

Signed,


A Blue Jays fan".....

Haha so true.

LA_Raiders
07-04-2017, 12:30 AM
Can't wait for the ASG.

Scoots
07-04-2017, 01:27 AM
I read through the thread and it reads like a lot of *****ing and moaning.

I've been following a baseball team that is in the same division as the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Baltimore Orioles etc and you don't hear me complaining.

And even if I did complain, what am I gonna do? Write a letter to MLB management?

"Dear MLB,

This division friggen sucks - please put us in the National League, I beg you.

Signed,


A Blue Jays fan".....

Didn't you just complain then?

What I was saying that people can observe the fact that the West has more star power while not complaining. Just as people can recognize that the AL East is particularly active in big money free agency without it being a complaint.

Scoots
07-04-2017, 01:27 AM
Downside of such a weak conference talent wise is that guys like Middleton do in fact become All Stars and end up costing more money/harder to keep on their contract negotiations. A guy like Klay will likely no longer be an All Star in the West. Makes him cheaper.

This will also tend to keep the East down I suppose.

europagnpilgrim
07-04-2017, 03:17 AM
Eliminating conferences will just result in it being top heavy, especially with players having the ability to force their way to certain teams.

The reason the West is so stacked is because they need to compete with the Warriors. So if you people really want to have competitive balance, implement a hard cap to make it impossible for players to switch around.

on the flip side the East needs to load up and challenge the Cavs but Ainge is sitting on his hands playing cards while the West is actually trying to compete, Wizards and Raptors are a piece away(or two), Lebron teams have went to 7 straight Finals so to me it should be a more balanced attempt to take out both of those teams, not just West heavy because GS has went to 3 Finals since '11, 7 beats 3 last I checked

the league should eliminate the lesser teams and competiton would be way better and more compact, I would rather watch 8 powerhouses compete for a title vs 2(with maybe 2 fringe extra) as its set up right now

europagnpilgrim
07-04-2017, 03:29 AM
No there is no guaranteed "swing". The East needs to draft better.

The Eastern Conference drafted Lebron obviously. Kyrie, Giannis too. Jimmy Butler and Paul George (but they got traded to the West).

The West has drafted Curry, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Westy, CP3, Blake, Jokic, Love, IT4, Klay, Draymond, AD, Cousins, KAT, etc.

Obviously a few of those West guys have changed teams either in the West or to the East (Love, IT4). But if you look at geography, a player trying to leave his drafted team through FA or force a trade somewhere is more likely to stay West. Other than MIA having a great recruiting pitch and NY if they weren't such a crap franchise, the East just isn't very attractive to FAs. Most of these guys would prefer to be on the West unless you draft a superstar in the East, get him to stay and he draws players in.

The East just need to draft better. We can't have such a disproportionate amount of the superstar talent starting in the West. That's what the difference is. For as loaded as the West is compared to the East, if you get past the top 1-2 players on each team it's all really the same. It's not that the East has complete garbage teams while the West has super deep, unbeatable rosters. It's just that they have all the Superstars because they start out West and gravitate there. East needs to catch up.

True, nobody is going to flock to Milwaukee/Indiana, only Miami/NY are player type destinations, not even Celtics really knowing the history of how they did the legendary Russell who spoke of the Boston fans way back, when a Indiana was legit back in the days it was from drafting or trading for good players, Chicago was a destination somewhat during the Rose era but prior to that they sucked bad for most part

but to be honest the bottom West playoff teams would give Boston/Wiz/Raptors a run for its money and I wouldn't be shocked if they won those series so it really is lopsided once you think about it, the bottom half East playoff teams would get mopped by the 2-4 seeds out West, easily

warfelg
07-04-2017, 08:46 AM
How many of those picks are still in the NBA, and in what conferences? I wonder what we could learn about draft quality and player development by conference by that info?

Ok so I'm going to look a little deeper into this "how many top picks and what did they do" question. This time I'm going back to 2003 (Lebron year), and all lottery picks. I'm going to still count top 10 picks. Theoretically it should end up 50/50 in top 10 picks over 14 years.


Year
East Picks
West Picks
East All Stars
West All Stars
East All Pro
West All Pro
East Traded West
West Traded East


2003
7
3
3
2
3
1
0
1


2004
8
2
3
1
1
0
2
1


2005
5
5
0
4
0
3
1
1


2006
5
5
0
2
0
2
1
0


2007
5
5
2
1
2
1
0
0


2008
6
4
2
2
2
1
1
1


2009
4
6
1
3
1
3
0
0


2010
6
4
2
2
2
1
1
0


2011
7
3
2
1
1
1
0
0


2012
6
4
1
2
1
2
0
0


2013
5
5
0
0
0
0
0
0



So I'm pretty much going to stop there because no one else has done enough yet. So final count in that time:
East - 64 top 10 picks, 8 #1 picks
West - 46 top 10 picks, 3 #1 picks
East - 16 All Stars
West - 20 All Stars
East - 13 All Pros
West - 15 All Pros
East All Stars Traded West - 6
West All Stars Traded East - 4

So kinda backs up my point here. The West does a better job picking players and keeping them. I haven't gone through all those years for who is still in and out of the NBA.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-04-2017, 08:52 AM
Downside of such a weak conference talent wise is that guys like Middleton do in fact become All Stars and end up costing more money/harder to keep on their contract negotiations. A guy like Klay will likely no longer be an All Star in the West. Makes him cheaper.

All us Bucks fans pretty much figure Middleton will opt out of his final year. Which is a player option then go after max deal.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-04-2017, 09:02 AM
True, nobody is going to flock to Milwaukee/Indiana, only Miami/NY are player type destinations, not even Celtics really knowing the history of how they did the legendary Russell who spoke of the Boston fans way back, when a Indiana was legit back in the days it was from drafting or trading for good players, Chicago was a destination somewhat during the Rose era but prior to that they sucked bad for most part

but to be honest the bottom West playoff teams would give Boston/Wiz/Raptors a run for its money and I wouldn't be shocked if they won those series so it really is lopsided once you think about it, the bottom half East playoff teams would get mopped by the 2-4 seeds out West, easily

Knicks? Last free agent they got was Noah cause of Rose. Not to enticing. Last other big name I can remember was Stoudemire. Suns let him walking since he was injury-prone. Knicks mainly trade for over paid has-been's. Marbury, Francis, Sprewell, Houston, Baker. But then again I shouldn't talk. Milwaukee been piss poorly ran for decades as well. Bad enough Bucks "only" have MLE of $8.4M yet were trying to clear cap to give more to Rose. hahahahah. I wouldn't even offer Rose the vet minimum. I can see our owners squander 4 years of Giannis. Told Bucks on twitter the whole Rose stuff is lame. Better off to cough up two first round picks and expiring Moose for Bledsoe. Call it a offseason. I probably got them thinking now. hahhahahaha

IKnowHoops
07-04-2017, 12:22 PM
If you are going to value LeBron making it to finals after finals after finals, and I do. Then the weight of those finals appearances has to suffer a little when you consider the difficulty of him doing so being less than if he was on the other side. I didn't say he was bad, far from it, he's easily the best player of his generation ... just that it costs him a little the East being so incredibly bad on average over his career.

How that logic is "ridiculous" I don't get.

Because if your not doing it for every player then it's a dumb way to measure a player.

Do you do that for Magic?

Does anyone?

Even though Magics path was easier, and even though Magic and Kareem were eliminated by a sub .500 team in the playoffs, nobody even brings that up against Magic, Kareem, or the show time lakers as a whole.

So strength of schedule means d--- in the legacy dept.

JordansBulls
07-04-2017, 12:47 PM
The east became trash once DRose tore his ACL in 2012.

beasted86
07-04-2017, 12:56 PM
I recall vividly during the 90s everyone complaining and tired of the Bulls, Celtics and Pistons racking up title after title, and especially the Bulls being a lock to win.

Everything will balance in time.

Even with the recent run of success and winning 7 of the last 10 championships, all-time it's still in favor of the East 38-32.

beasted86
07-04-2017, 01:02 PM
The other funny thing is no matter what the West teams sign or trade for, everybody is still praying for Warriors injuries to even have a chance.

Tell me I'm lying.

tredigs
07-04-2017, 08:42 PM
The other funny thing is no matter what the West teams sign or trade for, everybody is still praying for Warriors injuries to even have a chance.

Tell me I'm lying.

whew - we have to go all the way back to every LeBron + All Stars teams to have a feeling like that.

Scoots
07-05-2017, 02:26 AM
Ok so I'm going to look a little deeper into this "how many top picks and what did they do" question. This time I'm going back to 2003 (Lebron year), and all lottery picks. I'm going to still count top 10 picks. Theoretically it should end up 50/50 in top 10 picks over 14 years.


Year
East Picks
West Picks
East All Stars
West All Stars
East All Pro
West All Pro
East Traded West
West Traded East


2003
7
3
3
2
3
1
0
1


2004
8
2
3
1
1
0
2
1


2005
5
5
0
4
0
3
1
1


2006
5
5
0
2
0
2
1
0


2007
5
5
2
1
2
1
0
0


2008
6
4
2
2
2
1
1
1


2009
4
6
1
3
1
3
0
0


2010
6
4
2
2
2
1
1
0


2011
7
3
2
1
1
1
0
0


2012
6
4
1
2
1
2
0
0


2013
5
5
0
0
0
0
0
0



So I'm pretty much going to stop there because no one else has done enough yet. So final count in that time:
East - 64 top 10 picks, 8 #1 picks
West - 46 top 10 picks, 3 #1 picks
East - 16 All Stars
West - 20 All Stars
East - 13 All Pros
West - 15 All Pros
East All Stars Traded West - 6
West All Stars Traded East - 4

So kinda backs up my point here. The West does a better job picking players and keeping them. I haven't gone through all those years for who is still in and out of the NBA.

Thanks, and I'd say that's fairly conclusive. The West was better already and they drafted better.

Bostonjorge
07-05-2017, 04:11 AM
Broussard had a great idea.

Have the 16 best teams make the playoffs. Since the west schedule will be more tough then the east schedule change the schedule as well. You play every team roughly 3 times a season. That gives us 3 meetings between Warriors vs Cavs in a season which is also a plus.

The playoffs are the best product for the NBA and having all the best teams competing makes it a better product.

Scoots
07-08-2017, 10:34 AM
Saw this stat and found it an interesting illustration of the issue.

Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah are the only Eastern Conference players to share first-team All-NBA honors since James left Cleveland the first time in the summer of 2010. Rose is the only first-team All-NBA or second-team All-NBA player that James had to defeat in a conference playoff series during his current run of dominance. Meanwhile Steph Curry had to defeat every member of the first-team All-NBA to win his first title.

nastynice
07-09-2017, 03:03 PM
"waaaaah waaaaahh - I live in California/Texas/Louisiana and its not fair that the West is sooo competetive - waaaaah"!

Same complaining every godman year.

How about this? Get rid of the friggen salary cap and then lets see what happens.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Lebron for once.

lol, umm, I love the competition. I love the years when the 7th/8th seed in the west is legitimately better than 7 eastern playoff teams. Lots of good basketball out west

I think thread is more about, wtf is going on with the east. Complete **** show of a conference

bagwell368
07-09-2017, 06:18 PM
I recall vividly during the 90s everyone complaining and tired of the Bulls, Celtics and Pistons racking up title after title, and especially the Bulls being a lock to win.

Everything will balance in time.

Even with the recent run of success and winning 7 of the last 10 championships, all-time it's still in favor of the East 38-32.

Go back to the early 80's. C's, 76'ers, Pistons, Bull, and the Lakers... Bucks had a pretty fine team and got nowhere, much like the 2nd-10th teams in the West the next few years. 76'ers and C's will build out East.

Bostonjorge
07-09-2017, 09:51 PM
Saw this stat and found it an interesting illustration of the issue.

Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah are the only Eastern Conference players to share first-team All-NBA honors since James left Cleveland the first time in the summer of 2010. Rose is the only first-team All-NBA or second-team All-NBA player that James had to defeat in a conference playoff series during his current run of dominance. Meanwhile Steph Curry had to defeat every member of the first-team All-NBA to win his first title.

Do we check another one of those greatness boxes for James here to I wonder? Curry already passed James on the toughest road list so we can check another box for why Curry is passing up James on that same greatness list.

Scoots
07-09-2017, 10:31 PM
Do we check another one of those greatness boxes for James here to I wonder? Curry already passed James on the toughest road list so we can check another box for why Curry is passing up James on that same greatness list.

I don't care about ranking players generally. I'm good with LeBron is one of the greatest of all time.