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View Full Version : Phil Jackson and Knicks expected to "part ways"



HandsOnTheWheel
06-28-2017, 03:14 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19755552/new-york-knicks-team-president-phil-jackson-expected-part-ways-wednesday

Does this mean Melo stays in NY?

hugepatsfan
06-28-2017, 04:20 AM
They should dump Melo regardless of who the GM is.

Phil was smart to shop Porzingis for a ridiculous offer. He's obviously great but has some weaknesses to where I do t think you look at him and say he's a true #1 player in the making.

Issue with Phil is that he trashes these guys in the media which doesn't work today. The idea it lowers value is hogwash because the market dictate that, not his comments. But it makes relationships impossible to mend. Phil doesn't get that.

More-Than-Most
06-28-2017, 05:03 AM
I said it in the knicks forum its smart IF they still dump melo... But Dolan might be the worst owner in all of basketball. How the **** do you wait until after the draft to do this? You let phil draft a ****ing guy who has massive bust risk because he fits the triangle over taking the better player in DSJ..... If they fire phil and keep melo and resign Rose the knicks fans should stop going to the games. If they fire phil and get rid of melo and clean house and start building around Porz with defensive players there is hope a few years down the line.

metswon69
06-28-2017, 05:20 AM
Dump Melo for what though? Not that Melo needed a ton of help but this franchise basically threw him and any potential value he has under the bus. What's a realistic return? The only thing you would be doing is shedding salary.

That said, it was time for Phil to go. The man was clueless on how to run a franchise trying to play an antiquated system that has no business in today's NBA. What I dont understand is why they waited till after the draft to fire him. Why would you let him make a lottery pick if you are just going to fire him 5 days later?

IDunknown
06-28-2017, 05:28 AM
^^^ That's Dolan...they picked up 2yr option in Phil's contract too.

metswon69
06-28-2017, 05:32 AM
^^^ That's Dolan...they picked up 2yr option in Phil's contract too.

:facepalm:

Wouldn't be surprised if he hired Isiah Thomas as interim president.

da ThRONe
06-28-2017, 06:37 AM
Why not do this at the end of the season? They waited until after the draft? Dolan is a terrible owner it's really crazy to think how dumb people can be.

da ThRONe
06-28-2017, 06:41 AM
I guess trying to bring Derrick Rose back was the last straw. Really why not just decline the option? Now they drafted a PG based on his fit in a system that will not even be there. Ths biggest winner is coach Jeff H.

PurpleLynch
06-28-2017, 07:18 AM
I guess trying to bring Derrick Rose back was the last straw. Really why not just decline the option? Now they drafted a PG based on his fit in a system that will not even be there. Ths biggest winner is coach Jeff H.

Agree, with the chaos in the FO, he will have the freedom to coach as he like, without implementing the Triangle.

The Knicks need a complete overhaul in the FO though, meaning also changing ownership or limiting Dolan's power.

GiantsSwaGG
06-28-2017, 07:21 AM
Hopefully we hire David Griffin and Dolan gets out his way as well

metswon69
06-28-2017, 07:28 AM
Agree, with the chaos in the FO, he will have the freedom to coach as he like, without implementing the Triangle.

The Knicks need a complete overhaul in the FO though, meaning also changing ownership or limiting Dolan's power.

That depends on if the new president wants Hornacek to stay or looks to hire his own coach.

Unless the NBA gets involved (which is highly unlikely), there will be no change in Dolan's ownership or power over the franchise. Hopefully he hires a qualified personnel guy but the odds of that are unlikely given his previous tenure.

David Griffin isn't a bad hire but how much of Cleveland's success was Lebron making personnel decisions and because of how great of a talent he is.

PurpleLynch
06-28-2017, 07:38 AM
That depends on if the new president wants Hornacek to stay or looks to hire his own coach.

Unless the NBA gets involved (which is highly unlikely), there will be no change in Dolan's ownership or power over the franchise. Hopefully he hires a qualified personnel guy but the odds of that are unlikely given his previous tenure.

David Griffin isn't a bad hire but how much of Cleveland's success was Lebron making personnel decisions and because of how great of a talent he is.

I agree ,he isn't a bad hire, but Lebron's influence over him and the trades he made was undeniable.

I think they will keep Hornacek, in this shitstorm they will try to at least mantain some continuity with the coaching staff. His first years with the Suns were positive, even if he didn't reach the playoffs.

mike_noodles
06-28-2017, 07:38 AM
Thank god for the Knicks. I'm actually excited for their fans.

Crackadalic
06-28-2017, 07:47 AM
Dump Melo for what though? Not that Melo needed a ton of help but this franchise basically threw him and any potential value he has under the bus. What's a realistic return? The only thing you would be doing is shedding salary.

That said, it was time for Phil to go. The man was clueless on how to run a franchise trying to play an antiquated system that has no business in today's NBA. What I dont understand is why they waited till after the draft to fire him. Why would you let him make a lottery pick if you are just going to fire him 5 days later?

This is my issue. Why the hell do this after Phil drafted a triangle base player smh. Somehow JAmes Dolan always does the dumbest **** sometimes

KnickNyKnick
06-28-2017, 08:09 AM
melo might be staying now. Phil was the issue with him. and i dont mind melo staying. But for the love of god do not sign rose.

Crackadalic
06-28-2017, 08:14 AM
melo might be staying now. Phil was the issue with him. and i dont mind melo staying. But for the love of god do not sign rose.

Keeping melo means 32 wins. Enjoy the ****** late lottery picks.

WaDe03
06-28-2017, 09:09 AM
So apparently they're parting ways over disagreeing on buying out Melo.

Maybe Dolan wanted to buy him out but Phil didn't since it was reported that the Knicks didn't want to buy him out. I would assume that came from Phil.

warfelg
06-28-2017, 09:14 AM
This is what happens when you "do things the right way"

oak2455
06-28-2017, 09:26 AM
Apparently going after the gm of the Raptors Masai Ujiri

THE MTL
06-28-2017, 09:33 AM
I understand the reasoning, but I just don't like the lack of direction if we do get rid of Phil. Our team is just hopeless.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2017, 09:35 AM
what a ridiculous hire in the first place.

Dolan needs to make a hire, and get the hell out of the way and let his man do the job.

Big Zo
06-28-2017, 09:41 AM
This is a blow to the Knicks continued sucking, but James Dolan is still there, and I have faith in him.

cmellofan15
06-28-2017, 09:41 AM
Apparently going after the gm of the Raptors Masai Ujiri

Lmao they're going after the guy that gave them Melo in the first place. The wheel keeps on turning....

GiantsSwaGG
06-28-2017, 10:07 AM
what a ridiculous hire in the first place.

Dolan needs to make a hire, and get the hell out of the way and let his man do the job.

:laugh2: he did this time and it still didn't work

Toronto Homer
06-28-2017, 10:24 AM
Masai would be a great hire for the Knicks. I would hate to see him leave us in Toronto though.

aman_13
06-28-2017, 10:38 AM
The timing is comical.

Mr.B
06-28-2017, 10:39 AM
I wonder what Porzingis thinks about what Dolan is doing now.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-28-2017, 10:40 AM
Take Masai from us please, be a blessing

smith&wesson
06-28-2017, 10:41 AM
They want Masai ? To trade Melo again lol

Bostonjorge
06-28-2017, 12:18 PM
Phill is gone

oak2455
06-28-2017, 12:47 PM
Phill is gone

The sky is blue today

bucketss
06-28-2017, 12:51 PM
dolan doesnt want to get destroyed in trades by masaai anymore lol.

metswon69
06-28-2017, 01:00 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718554-frank-ntilikina-suffers-knee-injury-in-1st-knicks-practice-after-2017-nba-draft

That would be the Knick's luck after firing Phil lol.

aman_13
06-28-2017, 01:09 PM
There is no chance Ujiri is leaving Toronto.

FlashBolt
06-28-2017, 01:10 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718554-frank-ntilikina-suffers-knee-injury-in-1st-knicks-practice-after-2017-nba-draft

That would be the Knick's luck after firing Phil lol.

LMFAO.. they were going to pick Smith but Phil said no to it.. man, this franchise has more problems than Phil. They need to get someone in there who actually knows what he's doing..

HandsOnTheWheel
06-28-2017, 01:17 PM
LMFAO.. they were going to pick Smith but Phil said no to it.. man, this franchise has more problems than Phil. They need to get someone in there who actually knows what he's doing..

Was just going to say this. Watch DSJ become a star now smh.

SfgiantsJD3
06-28-2017, 02:58 PM
The sky is blue today

It would be nice if you could slow your signature down so an old man could enjoy it

:=)

kobe4thewinbang
06-28-2017, 03:27 PM
James Dolan finally found his balls again or his brain. Phil Jackson trying to force a stupid offense in an NBA landscape that has changed since he was on top and in the meantime verbally ruined any trade value Carmelo Anthony may have had at one point. Shocking move, as I didn't expect Dolan to do anything, but this is nice!

:clap:

I know Stephen A. is dancing somewhere! Can't wait to hear him rejoice on First Take...

FlashBolt
06-28-2017, 03:39 PM
James Dolan finally found his balls again or his brain. Phil Jackson trying to force a stupid offense in an NBA landscape that has changed since he was on top and in the meantime verbally ruined any trade value Carmelo Anthony may have had at one point. Shocking move, as I didn't expect Dolan to do anything, but this is nice!

:clap:

I know Stephen A. is dancing somewhere! Can't wait to hear him rejoice on First Take...

He was on it this morning. He's on vacation but couldn't wait to report about it.. lol.

Jamiecballer
06-28-2017, 03:57 PM
Masai seems a little too classy can't see it happening

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kobe4thewinbang
06-28-2017, 03:59 PM
He was on it this morning. He's on vacation but couldn't wait to report about it.. lol.I knew he would be happy. The draft choice kind of stinks though.

aman_13
06-28-2017, 04:10 PM
James Dolan finally found his balls again or his brain. Phil Jackson trying to force a stupid offense in an NBA landscape that has changed since he was on top and in the meantime verbally ruined any trade value Carmelo Anthony may have had at one point. Shocking move, as I didn't expect Dolan to do anything, but this is nice!

:clap:

I know Stephen A. is dancing somewhere! Can't wait to hear him rejoice on First Take...

He already spoke today and had a heated argument with Will Cain. I have to give it to this guy, he puts in work.

aman_13
06-28-2017, 04:22 PM
Masai seems a little too classy can't see it happening

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Not only that but just the optics of leaving Toronto would be horrific. Mostly due to the unclear direction of the team. Leaving the job to a young GM in an off season where two of their best players are free agents would be absurd.

He would essentially be leaving without finishing the job.

FOXHOUND
06-28-2017, 04:54 PM
Masai seems a little too classy can't see it happening

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

https://youtu.be/WbUn9wSIPvM?t=5s

Not interested in his overrated self anyways, especially since the Knicks would have to give up compensation to get him.

mike_noodles
06-28-2017, 05:07 PM
Take Masai from us please, be a blessing

If the compensation is half of what one reporter suggested, absolutely, no questions asked. Michael Grange of Sportsnet.ca said KP and a 1st rounder.

Hustla23
06-28-2017, 05:40 PM
If the compensation is half of what one reporter suggested, absolutely, no questions asked. Michael Grange of Sportsnet.ca said KP and a 1st rounder.

Lmao what on earth. Who trades assets for an executive of all things.

SfgiantsJD3
06-28-2017, 05:41 PM
Interesting read on Phil's 3 years

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/at-least-phil-jackson-didnt-leave-the-knicks-in-ruins/

Jamiecballer
06-28-2017, 06:57 PM
https://youtu.be/WbUn9wSIPvM?t=5s

Not interested in his overrated self anyways, especially since the Knicks would have to give up compensation to get him.
You have a problem with a gm trying to rile up a home crowd? Doesn't exactly define him. he's a man of the people, other gms would be nowhere in the vacinity before the game.

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D-Leethal
06-28-2017, 07:31 PM
I'd rather get Hinkie and tank the night away than get a guy who sucks in the draft and whose claim to fame is building B-level teams on the reg.

D-Leethal
06-28-2017, 07:31 PM
Whoever is helping Danny Ainge is the guy I want.

ewing
06-28-2017, 08:25 PM
Good


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aman_13
06-28-2017, 11:24 PM
I'd rather get Hinkie and tank the night away than get a guy who sucks in the draft and whose claim to fame is building B-level teams on the reg.

Kind of easy when you are drafting number one all the time.

Does Hinkie really make sense in NY? How will out right tanking go over in the biggest market in the NBA?

Bringing in one of the top executives in the game is exactly what you are supposed to be doing. Especially after hiring someone with no prior experience for that position.

nastynice
06-29-2017, 12:18 AM
Was a matter of time. Someone brought up a good point earlier tho, why wait til after the draft? lol, wtf

aman_13
06-29-2017, 12:23 AM
Was a matter of time. Someone brought up a good point earlier tho, why wait til after the draft? lol, wtf

It's just such a Knicks thing to do. They are so lost as an organization.

cmellofan15
06-29-2017, 07:04 AM
I'd rather get Hinkie and tank the night away than get a guy who sucks in the draft and whose claim to fame is building B-level teams on the reg.

So you'd rather just suck for another 5 years than have a guy who was apart of taking a team to 57 wins and another to the ECF? Sounds like a Knicks fan....

FOXHOUND
06-29-2017, 07:41 AM
You have a problem with a gm trying to rile up a home crowd? Doesn't exactly define him. he's a man of the people, other gms would be nowhere in the vacinity before the game.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

No, I don't mind. I was just having fun with the class comment. :D

I'm not a big fan of his work, is all it comes down to. The two moves he gets the most credit for are the Melo and Bargnani trades, and while he did well on neither ultimately led to anything. I mean, Jakob Poeltl? I get that the draft looks really weak so far but Thon Maker went the next pick. If they draft Maker, maybe they don't feel the need to trade a 1st for Ibaka later? Meh. He couldn't trade with the Knicks if he was here and if you take away those moves how good is his resume, really?

That's why it's funny that you say he's too classy to do that too, when that's basically when he did to Denver. He built up Denver a bit, they won a lot of regular season games, he traded a 1st for upcoming FA Iguodala. Then they flamed out in the playoffs, Iguodala left, Karl was fired and they were left in ruins. Look at Toronto now, they have Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker and Patterson as FAs and they're at a franchise crossroads like Denver was. If they bring back even 1 of Lowry or Ibaka, they're done with cap space for two years. If they bring back both? And what's the point? You're bringing back a roster that is maxed out financially and can never get it done in the postseason.

Even in terms of those teams successes, the guys he brought in are not the reason for those teams success. He didn't hire Karl in Denver and it was moving Billups to allow for Ty Lawson's emergence, who he didn't draft, that made that team stay afloat for a bit. Gallinari and Chandler never accomplished much there but they were alright. In Toronto, DeRozan and Lowry were already there and he was thinking more of blowing it up before their strong play changed that idea.

Meh, I don't think he's all that special.

mike_noodles
06-29-2017, 07:50 AM
Lmao what on earth. Who trades assets for an executive of all things.

Orlando just gave us a 2nd rounder for an assistant GM. So for a former executive of the year who is still under contract for 4 more years as president, the compensation would have to be much more. And if any franchise is stupid enough to do it...

Toronto Homer
06-29-2017, 08:21 AM
Orlando just gave us a 2nd rounder for an assistant GM. So for a former executive of the year who is still under contract for 4 more years as president, the compensation would have to be much more. And if any franchise is stupid enough to do it...

Not to mention, James Dolan's longtime friend Tim Lieweke is overseeing this situation for the Knicks. Lieweke is very good at making great hires in upper management and is the man who brought Masai to Toronto. Needless to say he is a Ujiri fan. As you said though, the compensation would have to be big with the number of years Masai is still under contract for. I wonder if Lieweke and Dolan will consider the compensation to be worthwhile to bring stability to the Knicks.

ewing
06-29-2017, 08:45 AM
I actually thought Phil did a decent job his first off season. Last years moves were not good and his meddling likely contributed to the team falling apart mid season the last two years. I don't get the omg but they drafted the French point talk though. We haven't seen him play and while people said he fit on the triangle if he was going to be good in it he will be good out of it. Hopefully the kid can play

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aman_13
06-29-2017, 01:02 PM
No, I don't mind. I was just having fun with the class comment. :D

I'm not a big fan of his work, is all it comes down to. The two moves he gets the most credit for are the Melo and Bargnani trades, and while he did well on neither ultimately led to anything. I mean, Jakob Poeltl? I get that the draft looks really weak so far but Thon Maker went the next pick. If they draft Maker, maybe they don't feel the need to trade a 1st for Ibaka later? Meh. He couldn't trade with the Knicks if he was here and if you take away those moves how good is his resume, really?

That's why it's funny that you say he's too classy to do that too, when that's basically when he did to Denver. He built up Denver a bit, they won a lot of regular season games, he traded a 1st for upcoming FA Iguodala. Then they flamed out in the playoffs, Iguodala left, Karl was fired and they were left in ruins. Look at Toronto now, they have Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker and Patterson as FAs and they're at a franchise crossroads like Denver was. If they bring back even 1 of Lowry or Ibaka, they're done with cap space for two years. If they bring back both? And what's the point? You're bringing back a roster that is maxed out financially and can never get it done in the postseason.

Even in terms of those teams successes, the guys he brought in are not the reason for those teams success. He didn't hire Karl in Denver and it was moving Billups to allow for Ty Lawson's emergence, who he didn't draft, that made that team stay afloat for a bit. Gallinari and Chandler never accomplished much there but they were alright. In Toronto, DeRozan and Lowry were already there and he was thinking more of blowing it up before their strong play changed that idea.

Meh, I don't think he's all that special.

He's drafted well considering he's rarely had high picks.

In Denver he drafted Faried and Fournier late in the first round.

In Toronto, his only lottery pick has been Jacob Poeltl in what is looking like a very weak draft. Jacob may not be a star, but he looks like he's going to be a solid NBA big that will have a long career. Thon Maker was considered a reach at number 10 by many experts. Other than that, all his picks have been late in the draft.

D-Leethal
06-29-2017, 10:31 PM
So you'd rather just suck for another 5 years than have a guy who was apart of taking a team to 57 wins and another to the ECF? Sounds like a Knicks fan....

They were a fraud of a 57 win team the same way the Knicks were a fraud of a 54 win team. Last thing we need is someone to come hand out big contracts to B-level talents like DeRozan and trade picks for washed up guys like Serge Ibaka to build a 2nd round fodder team. We need someone with the foresight of a guy like Ainge that knows there is no point shelling out major dough right now and just stockpile young talent until it's time to make a heavy pounce. Nothing in Ujiri's resume tells me he is the right guy to do that. He is the right guy to sign us Jeff Teague and Blake Griffin or something and win us 48 games and get us waxed in the playoffs and that is what I am terrified the Knicks will do.

Chronz
06-29-2017, 10:36 PM
Whoever is helping Danny Ainge is the guy I want.

So the next Daryl Morey?

aman_13
06-29-2017, 11:53 PM
They were a fraud of a 57 win team the same way the Knicks were a fraud of a 54 win team. Last thing we need is someone to come hand out big contracts to B-level talents like DeRozan and trade picks for washed up guys like Serge Ibaka to build a 2nd round fodder team. We need someone with the foresight of a guy like Ainge that knows there is no point shelling out major dough right now and just stockpile young talent until it's time to make a heavy pounce. Nothing in Ujiri's resume tells me he is the right guy to do that. He is the right guy to sign us Jeff Teague and Blake Griffin or something and win us 48 games and get us waxed in the playoffs and that is what I am terrified the Knicks will do.

So you are essentially hoping the Knicks hire an executive who can find another gm to make one of the dumbest trades in NBA history and ruin their franchise for yrs to come.

Ainge is a good GM but his formula isn't exactly repeatable.

superwill
06-29-2017, 11:59 PM
Zeke is a dark horse for the job:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laug h:

eDush
07-03-2017, 05:01 PM
Zeke is a dark horse for the job:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laug h::eyebrow:

ewing
07-03-2017, 05:49 PM
Zeke is a dark horse for the job:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laug h:


that's racist