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View Full Version : All-Time Auction Playoffs (Baltimore Bullets vs. Ordinary Mr. Fox)



valade16
06-25-2017, 04:44 PM
Every year Posters from PSD come together and do a secret auction of all players throughout NBA history attempting to make the best team and win the PSD All-Time Auction Championship! The teams have been seeded and are now in the playoffs. Please look over the teams and vote based on which team you think would win in a 7 game playoff series.

Baltimore Bullets have the higher seed and will have home court advantage in the series.

Baltimore Bullets:

PG: Mark Price - Mookie Blaylock
SG: Klay Thompson - Steve Kerr
SF: LeBron James - Gerald Wallace
PF: Rasheed Wallace - Paul Milsap
C: Nate Thurmond - Tree Rollins

vs.

Ordinary Mr. Fox

PG: Maurice Cheeks [18] | Tiny Archibald [30]
SG: Jimmy Butler [35] | Doug Christie [13]
SF/PF: Andrei Kirilenko [32] | Bruce Bowen [20]
SF/PF: Carmelo Anthony [32] | Buck Williams [12]
C: Hakeem Olajuwon [40] | Vlade Divac [8]

Lakers + Giants
06-25-2017, 05:55 PM
Hakeem can't overcome the rest of the disparities at all other positions.

KnicksorBust
06-25-2017, 06:57 PM
Hakeem can't overcome the rest of the disparities at all other positions.

Fox is better at PF and SG too...

jon32
06-25-2017, 07:03 PM
Fox needs to start bowen and have him undercut lebron and take out his ankles

Lucky.
06-25-2017, 07:54 PM
I think I like Baltimore's team slightly more, but I think I like Fox a little more in this match-up. I like the oldies more than most, however I'm not a fan of Thurmond.

It's good to see that Fox is playing Tiny majority of the minutes at PG, because although their perimeter defense is terrific which is a big reason why I like them here, I worry about the amount of offense (starters and bench combined) they'll get from those players. Tiny helps with that.

jon32
06-25-2017, 08:07 PM
I really dont see this as a close matchup tbh. LeBron ( arguably top 3 player ever) has elite shooting around him. He also has an elite C and father in Thurmond.

LeBrons having a field day here feeding all his shooters.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-25-2017, 09:26 PM
I think Fox needs another scorer and I don't think Melo can be relied on, even as a 2nd option.

FOXHOUND
06-26-2017, 06:18 AM
I think Fox needs another scorer and I don't think Melo can be relied on, even as a 2nd option.

But I have better scorers than he does. :( lol

FOXHOUND
06-26-2017, 08:05 AM
Ordinary Mr. Fox

Depth Chart

PG: Tiny Archibald0001973-1975

6-1, 150lb, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDhThrByUMA

PER GAME - 41.6 MPG
27.9 PTS, 10.2-21.6 FGA (.471), 0.0-0.0 3PA (N/A), 7.6-8.8 FTA (.854)
0.6 ORB, 2.0 DRB, 2.7 TRB, 8.8 AST, 1.5 STL, 0.1 BLK, N/A TO, 2.4 PF
Honors: MVP: 3rd, 6th. (.396 shares)
All-NBA: 2x 1st. All-Star: x2.
HALL OF FAME


SG: Jimmy Butler0002015-2017

6-7, 220lb, https://youtu.be/xhNR_CagCME?t=34s

PER GAME - 37.5 MPG
21.7 PTS, 7.0-15.4 FGA (.457), 1.1-3.1 3PA (.353), 6.6-7.8 FTA (.846)
1.5 ORB, 4.3 DRB, 5.8 TRB, 4.6 AST, 1.8 STL, 0.5 BLK, 1.8 TO, 1.7 PF
Honors: All-NBA: 1x 3rd. All-Star: x3. All-Defensive: 2x 2nd


SF: Andrei Kirilenko0002004-2006

6-9, 220lb, https://youtu.be/E50MCQs2xPM

PER GAME - 36.4 MPG
15.8 PTS, 5.1-11.1 FGA (.459), 0.7-2.1 3PA (.322), 5.0-6.6 FTA (.753)
2.5 ORB, 5.1 DRB, 7.6 TRB, 3.6 AST, 1.7 STL, 3.0 BLK, 2.7 TO, 2.3 PF
Honors: MVP: 13th place (.002 shares)
All-Star: 1x. All-Defensive: 1x 1st, 2x 2nd. Blocks Title: 1x.


PF: Carmelo Anthony0002012-2014

6-8, 240lb, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG_SO39X1og

PER GAME - 36.9 MPG
26.5 PTS, 9.3-20.9 FGA (.446), 2.0-5.2 3PA (.380), 5.9-7.1 FTA (.830)
1.8 ORB, 5.3 DRB, 7.2 TRB, 3.1 AST, 1.1 STL, 0.5 BLK, 2.6 TO, 2.9 PF
Honors: MVP: 3rd, 15th place (.396 shares)
All-NBA: 1x 2nd, 1x 3rd. All-Star: 3x. Scoring Title: 1x.
HALL OF FAME PROBABILITY: 98.2%


C: Hakeem Olajuwon0001993-1995

7-0, 255lb, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ktSFxTsquE

PER GAME - 40.1 MPG
27.0 PTS, 10.9-20.7 FGA (.525), 0.0-0.2 3PA (.256), 5.3-7.0 FTA (.751)
2.9 ORB, 9.0 DRB, 12.0 TRB, 3.6 AST, 1.8 STL, 3.8 BLK, 3.3 TO, 3.6 PF
Honors: MVP: 1st, 2nd, 5th (1.680 shares). DPOY: 1st, 1st, 3rd (1.097 shares)
All-NBA: 2x 1st, 1x 3rd. All-Star: 3x. All-Defensive: 2x 1st. Blocks Title: 1x
Championships: 2x. Finals MVP: 2x.
HALL OF FAME


PG: Maurice Cheeks0001985-1987

6-1, 180lb, https://youtu.be/9jXDIFrTRxY?t=7s

PER GAME - 37.3 MPG
14.7 PTS, 5.8-10.7 FGA (.543), 0.1-0.3 3PA (.233), 3.0-3.6 FTA (.828 )
0.7 ORB, 2.2 DRB, 2.9 TRB, 7.8 AST, 2.4 STL, 0.3 BLK, 2.5 TO, 2.0 PF
Honors: All-Star: x2. All-Defensive: 2x 1st, 1x 2nd.


SG: Doug Christie0002001-2003

6-6, 200lb, https://youtu.be/PPILIe_xxsY?t=9s

PER GAME - 34.9 MPG
11.2 PTS, 3.8-8.6 FGA (.440), 1.1-2.9 3PA (.372), 2.6-3.0 FTA (.861)
1.0 ORB, 3.5 DRB, 4.4 TRB, 4.4 AST, 2.2 STL, 0.4 BLK, 1.9 TO, 2.6 PF
Honors: All-Defensive: 1x 1st, 2x 2nd


SF: Bruce Bowen0002003-2005

6-7, 185lb, https://youtu.be/edb6bz_C9ms?t=3s

PER GAME - 31.8 MPG
7.4 PTS, 2.8-6.4 FGA (.434), 1.1-2.8 3PA (.403), 0.7-1.3 FTA (.549)
0.6 ORB, 2.5 DRB, 3.2 TRB, 1.4 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.5 BLK, 0.9 TO, 2.2 PF
Honors: All-Defensive: 2x 1st, 1x 2nd.
Championships: 2x.


PF: Buck Williams0001982-1984

6-8, 215lb, https://youtu.be/85GcXM2_pfE?t=7s

PER GAME - 35.9 MPG
16.1 PTS, 6.3-11.1 FGA (.568), 0.0-0.0 3PA (N/A), 3.5-5.8 FTA (.603)
4.4 ORB, 8.0 DRB, 12.4 TRB, 1.5 AST, 1.0 STL, 1.3 BLK, 2.9 TO, 3.5 PF
Honors: MVP: 7th, 16th, 21st place (.057 shares). ROY.
All-NBA: 1x 2nd. All-Star: 2x. All-Rookie: 1st


C: Vlade Divac0001994-1996

7-1, 243lb, https://youtu.be/c-RWYBR9T4k?t=6s

PER GAME - 33.5 MPG
14.4 PTS, 5.7-11.2 FGA (.508), 0.1-0.5 3PA (.186), 2.9-4.1 FTA (.701)
3.1 ORB, 6.8 DRB, 9.9 TRB, 3.8 AST, 1.2 STL, 1.8 BLK, 2.5 TO, 3.6 PF
Honors: Being Vlade Divac

876922871150370816

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Butler is also a sneaky good 3 point shooter from the corner, shooting .446 from there over the past 4 seasons. In my half court offense, Butler would be lined up on the weak side corner whenever Hakeem or Melo is posting up.

Butler has clearly outplayed Klay Thompson in their head to head meetings, holding him to an insanely low 26% from 3 in 8 contests: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id1_select=Jimmy+Butler&player_id1=butleji01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Klay+Thompson&player_id2_select=Klay+Thompson&player_id2=thompkl01&idx=players

Melo is an elite catch and shoot player. In the last year of his pre-injury prime of 2013-14, as far back as NBA.com goes, Melo ranked 7th in the NBA in 3P% on catch and shoot 3's among players who took at least 3 a game with 43.6% on 3.4 attempts. Even this year out of his prime, Melo shot 42.6% on 3.5 catch and shoot 3 point attempts per game. That was a tick better than Kevin Durant, who shot 42.5% on 3.4 attempts.

For this matchup, the game plan will follow a similar one to the Golden State Warriors plan from the 2015 Finals. Nobody on the Baltimore Bullets is a big threat to score after LeBron. Klay Thompson is the only other player with a 20 PPG average over his 3-year peak, and it's at just 22.0 PPG. As shown in the link, Jimmy Butler shuts down Klay Thompson and he will continue to do so.

There's also a lack of playmakers on the Bullets. After Price and LeBron, who are no doubt great playmakers, there isn't much besides Blaylock and he was hardly a great offensive player. Seems like this team is heavily reliant on 2-on-5 basketball in terms of heavy ball dominant play by LeBron and Price/Blaylock. I like that matchup against my strong defense.

My defenders will stay home on their assignments, greatly limiting LeBron and Price's ability to drive and kick. Kirilenko, Bowen and Melo will switch off on LeBron defensively to eventually wear him down like that 2015 series. And no offense to Draymond, but he isn't close to the rim protector Hakeem was either. LeBron by himself with some Price is not outproducing my offensive core trio of Hakeem, Tiny and Melo.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-26-2017, 03:23 PM
But I have better scorers than he does. :( lol

I love Jimmy Butler and I had him in an ATRD a few years ago but he's not a guy I think would be a big factor offensively in this game. Also had Tiny in the same game and while he can score, I don't think he's complimentary to Hakeem.

FOXHOUND
06-26-2017, 04:58 PM
I love Jimmy Butler and I had him in an ATRD a few years ago but he's not a guy I think would be a big factor offensively in this game. Also had Tiny in the same game and while he can score, I don't think he's complimentary to Hakeem.

Hm? Why do you think that about Butler? He's gotten a whole lot better over the past few years and his ability to both score and pass is pretty great as a 3rd/4th scoring option and secondary ball handler on the court. That's what he's going to be doing in Minnesota. :D

Curious about the Tiny thing too. You don't have to be a 3pt sniper to compliment Hakeem, as he played in a time where that wasn't really a thing. The 94 Rockets were 15th in the NBA in 3PT% at .334 and the 95 Rockets 14th at .368. Between Melo, Bowen, Christie and Butler on catch and shoot, on which he shot 40% from 3 this year, I think the 3 point shooting is pretty well covered. Tiny was a really strong mid range shooter and routinely nailed long 2s as well. I don't think it's a stretch to think he could have been at least respectable on open 3s if it was part of the game when he came up.

Why did you have an issue with my scoring and not the Bullets though? Butler's 3-year peak scoring is 21.7 vs Klay's 22.0 and Butler is my 4th best scorer while Klay is his 2nd best.

FOXHOUND
06-26-2017, 05:00 PM
Fox is better at PF and SG too...

And PG.

valade16
06-26-2017, 05:14 PM
Hm? Why do you think that about Butler? He's gotten a whole lot better over the past few years and his ability to both score and pass is pretty great as a 3rd/4th scoring option and secondary ball handler on the court. That's what he's going to be doing in Minnesota. :D

Curious about the Tiny thing too. You don't have to be a 3pt sniper to compliment Hakeem, as he played in a time where that wasn't really a thing. The 94 Rockets were 15th in the NBA in 3PT% at .334 and the 95 Rockets 14th at .368. Between Melo, Bowen, Christie and Butler on catch and shoot, on which he shot 40% from 3 this year, I think the 3 point shooting is pretty well covered. Tiny was a really strong mid range shooter and routinely nailed long 2s as well. I don't think it's a stretch to think he could have been at least respectable on open 3s if it was part of the game when he came up.

Why did you have an issue with my scoring and not the Bullets though? Butler's 3-year peak scoring is 21.7 vs Klay's 22.0 and Butler is my 4th best scorer while Klay is his 2nd best.

Granted the numbers look downright quaint now, Hakeem's Championship Rockets were one of the first teams to use a smaller lineup predicated on spacing and 3pt shooting.

In 94 they led the league in 3pt attempts at 15.7 and the next closest was 13.9. In 1995 they again led the league this time at 21.4 3's per game while the second most was at 19.5.

GREATNESS ONE
06-26-2017, 05:36 PM
Fox is the only one that voted for us and UTB didn't vote at all, hmmm, I am not sure what to do here...

Raps18-19 Champ
06-26-2017, 11:18 PM
Hm? Why do you think that about Butler? He's gotten a whole lot better over the past few years and his ability to both score and pass is pretty great as a 3rd/4th scoring option and secondary ball handler on the court. That's what he's going to be doing in Minnesota. :D

Curious about the Tiny thing too. You don't have to be a 3pt sniper to compliment Hakeem, as he played in a time where that wasn't really a thing. The 94 Rockets were 15th in the NBA in 3PT% at .334 and the 95 Rockets 14th at .368. Between Melo, Bowen, Christie and Butler on catch and shoot, on which he shot 40% from 3 this year, I think the 3 point shooting is pretty well covered. Tiny was a really strong mid range shooter and routinely nailed long 2s as well. I don't think it's a stretch to think he could have been at least respectable on open 3s if it was part of the game when he came up.

Why did you have an issue with my scoring and not the Bullets though? Butler's 3-year peak scoring is 21.7 vs Klay's 22.0 and Butler is my 4th best scorer while Klay is his 2nd best.

As a 4th option sure, but since I don't think Melo can hack it as a 2nd option and think Tiny is more suited at a 6th man in this, Butler would need to be your 2nd option, which is not something I can see in an ATRD.

Also, the league has changed since then. That Lebron team has snipers for days. Melo, Bowen, Butler and Christie isn't going to make enough 3s to match up.

Klay and Butler's scoring abilities are different. Klay can score 22 PPG and barely touch the ball. Jimmy needs the ball more in his hands. Klay is perfect for Lebron's style of play. Jimmy and Hakeem can work, but Hakeem-Klay might be better if you want to play small around him.

Redrum187
06-26-2017, 11:23 PM
I might be blind, but I don't really see Fox as having insufficient scoring. He has plenty of it to me... I mean, does the entire starting 5 have to score 20 ppg to have sufficient offense? Especially when considering his starters (with the exception of Melo) are great-to-elite defenders?

I have always disliked Melo ever since he was with the Nuggets (when people did like him), but I can objectively state Melo did play his bell ball at PF for NY. Would I want him as my 2nd best scorer? No, but I don't think he, along with his deep roster would have a super difficult time scoring considering their defense wouldn't allow for a high scoring game anyways.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 04:40 AM
Granted the numbers look downright quaint now, Hakeem's Championship Rockets were one of the first teams to use a smaller lineup predicated on spacing and 3pt shooting.

In 94 they led the league in 3pt attempts at 15.7 and the next closest was 13.9. In 1995 they again led the league this time at 21.4 3's per game while the second most was at 19.5.

The volume was there for the time, for sure, but not a very high efficiency. I guess they were like the current Rockets in that way, by coincidence haha. I think the stretch 4 in Horry was the most important factor for their spacing and I have Melo so I'm covered with that.

Still, I'm not trying to win games by chucking 30-40 3s a night so I don't think that's an issue. Strong defense, three great half court scorers, a lot of strong playmakers and selective 3 point shooting. I'm definitely more of the mentality of the Spurs when it comes to 3s. Maybe lower volume than others but very high efficiency because it isn't being forced.

Dunkapolooza
06-27-2017, 05:10 AM
With Ak and Bowen on Lebron and Thurmond on Hakeem its almost like who is a better centerpiece for an offense. And that's almost the perfect team around Lebron. He's even got really quality pg's to take over the offense when LeBron doesn't have the ball. A team that doesn't even really have to go through Hakeem's defense that much. outside james the rim attackers get all-time pedestrian, but so many guys that can take over games with outside shooting. Millsap was a great final rotation fill too. Like a modern sports car.

considering my handle is dunkapolooza I'm not a huge fan of jump shooting teams lol. But I can't deny this is almost the perfect Lebron team.

The Hakeem fit is legit too. Cheeks and Bowen and Ak is not enough scoring imo though. Lebron will get to rest on defense quite a bit. Makes it hard to wear him down.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 05:50 AM
As a 4th option sure, but since I don't think Melo can hack it as a 2nd option and think Tiny is more suited at a 6th man in this, Butler would need to be your 2nd option, which is not something I can see in an ATRD.

Also, the league has changed since then. That Lebron team has snipers for days. Melo, Bowen, Butler and Christie isn't going to make enough 3s to match up.

Klay and Butler's scoring abilities are different. Klay can score 22 PPG and barely touch the ball. Jimmy needs the ball more in his hands. Klay is perfect for Lebron's style of play. Jimmy and Hakeem can work, but Hakeem-Klay might be better if you want to play small around him.

Man, the Melo stigma is real lol. You already voted against me, but I can at least dispel this for any future voters.

Carmelo Anthony is one of the greatest scorers in NBA history.

•He has had 7 seasons of 25 PPG or more, tying him for 15th all-time. This is more than people like Dirk Nowitzki (5), Charles Barkley (5), Dwyane Wade (5) and Larry Bird (4). He is one of just 18 players in NBA history to have 7 seasons of 25 PPG.

•Crank that up to 28 PPG, and his 3 seasons are tied for 15th all-time with names like Larry Bird and George Gervin. He is one of just 20 players in NBA history to have 3 seasons of 28 PPG and only 48 players have done it at least once.

•He has had 5 seasons of 26 PPG, 18th all time. There are just 48 players in NBA history who have had 2 or more seasons of 26 PPG. Melo averaged 26 PPG over a 10-year period of his career, from 2005-06 to 2014-15.

•Playing with another high volume scorer in Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony averaged 25.7 PPG on .492/.354/.786 in 2007-08. During the 2006-07 season, he averaged 27.6 PPG on .460/.270/.812 in the 43 games he played in after the Iverson trade.

•After being traded to the Knicks to join high volume scorer and big man Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony averaged 26.3 PPG on .461/.424/.872 while averaging 2.0 3PM over the remaining 27 games. Amare got hurt that postseason and was never the same again.

I'm not sure why you think Melo can't hack it as a 2nd option, or a 1A/1B and even 1C when Tiny is on, but I assure you he would be fine.

Tiny is my 6th Man, did you look at the rotation set up in the OP before voting?

As I already broke down, my defenders will stay at home at his strong shooters - those being Price, Klay, Kerr and Blaylock - and he has no other strong scorers after LeBron. Klay failed as a 2nd option in real life on a 73-win team last year and in the last two Finals his production went to ****, let alone in an all-time game. As also mentioned, Butler has destroyed him in their matchups, holding him to 15 PPG and a ghastly 26% from 3.

My shooters don't have to keep up with his, LeBron has to try and out produce 3 of the best offensive players in NBA history with little help on that end against my elite defense. I didn't mention Sheed, because he's a good but not great shooter. Still, I'm not worried about leaving Sheed much as he is far from a great scorer. He never averaged 20 PPG once and scored 30 points or more 26 times - in his entire career. I have no issues with his offense gravitating towards Rasheed Wallace in an all-time game. That's a huge win for my defense.

To reiterate for Butler and his seemingly underrated game.

876922871150370816

Klay also isn't perfect for LeBron as a 2nd scorer. LeBron has only won championships with a 2nd scorer who can carry the teams at times going ISO and help him close games late in Wade and Kyrie. He doesn't have anyone remotely close to guys on that level. After LeBron, he doesn't have a strong ISO scorer period, let alone in an all-time game.

My D will shut down all of his other players, leaving LeBron having to try and outscore Hakeem, Melo and Tiny largely on his own. This while being guarded by AK47, Bowen and Melo switching off the stay fresh and driving into Hakeem at the rim. It didn't happen vs Orlando in 2009 or Golden State in 2015 and I don't see it happening here.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 06:10 AM
I might be blind, but I don't really see Fox as having insufficient scoring. He has plenty of it to me... I mean, does the entire starting 5 have to score 20 ppg to have sufficient offense? Especially when considering his starters (with the exception of Melo) are great-to-elite defenders?

I have always disliked Melo ever since he was with the Nuggets (when people did like him), but I can objectively state Melo did play his bell ball at PF for NY. Would I want him as my 2nd best scorer? No, but I don't think he, along with his deep roster would have a super difficult time scoring considering their defense wouldn't allow for a high scoring game anyways.

Exactly. I don't see how this criticism works against my team but not the Bullets.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 06:18 AM
With Ak and Bowen on Lebron and Thurmond on Hakeem its almost like who is a better centerpiece for an offense. And that's almost the perfect team around Lebron. He's even got really quality pg's to take over the offense when LeBron doesn't have the ball. A team that doesn't even really have to go through Hakeem's defense that much. outside james the rim attackers get all-time pedestrian, but so many guys that can take over games with outside shooting. Millsap was a great final rotation fill too. Like a modern sports car.

considering my handle is dunkapolooza I'm not a huge fan of jump shooting teams lol. But I can't deny this is almost the perfect Lebron team.

The Hakeem fit is legit too. Cheeks and Bowen and Ak is not enough scoring imo though. Lebron will get to rest on defense quite a bit. Makes it hard to wear him down.

Wearing him down would come in the 09 Magic/15 Warriors way, where my D stays at home on the rest of the team, switches off AK, Bowen and Melo to keep them fresh and forces LeBron to have to do mostly everything on offense.

I'm not really worried about Price because other than Klay, none of his starters are strong off the ball players. There's no real dangerous pick n roll player or anything to worry about, and I would employ the anti-Nash strategy from teams like the Spurs who forced him to beat you as a scorer. Being that Mark Price scored 30 points just 21 times in his entire career, I'm not really worried about him as a scorer when I have Hakeem, Melo and Tiny.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 06:20 AM
Interested to hear from UTB on his own team, but I guess since his team is winning he has no need to chime in lol.

KnicksorBust
06-27-2017, 07:39 AM
You can't just say "LeBron and shooters? Game Over." Between Butler/AK47/Bowen they have a great mix of talented wing defenders to throw at LeBron at one of the greatest rim protectors in Hakeem. There is a lot more to this matchup. I also think OMF's bench is far superior. I'm not a big Melo fan anymore but at PF IN THIS MATCHUP he works. Sheed is not going to work him in the post and wear him down. And he gets to take Sheed off the dribble. Melo was always born to play Robin he just never played with Batman. Plus Fox has done a much better job arguing his points than Baltimore. He gets my vote.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-27-2017, 02:48 PM
Man, the Melo stigma is real lol. You already voted against me, but I can at least dispel this for any future voters.

Carmelo Anthony is one of the greatest scorers in NBA history.

•He has had 7 seasons of 25 PPG or more, tying him for 15th all-time. This is more than people like Dirk Nowitzki (5), Charles Barkley (5), Dwyane Wade (5) and Larry Bird (4). He is one of just 18 players in NBA history to have 7 seasons of 25 PPG.

•Crank that up to 28 PPG, and his 3 seasons are tied for 15th all-time with names like Larry Bird and George Gervin. He is one of just 20 players in NBA history to have 3 seasons of 28 PPG and only 48 players have done it at least once.

•He has had 5 seasons of 26 PPG, 18th all time. There are just 48 players in NBA history who have had 2 or more seasons of 26 PPG. Melo averaged 26 PPG over a 10-year period of his career, from 2005-06 to 2014-15.

•Playing with another high volume scorer in Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony averaged 25.7 PPG on .492/.354/.786 in 2007-08. During the 2006-07 season, he averaged 27.6 PPG on .460/.270/.812 in the 43 games he played in after the Iverson trade.

•After being traded to the Knicks to join high volume scorer and big man Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony averaged 26.3 PPG on .461/.424/.872 while averaging 2.0 3PM over the remaining 27 games. Amare got hurt that postseason and was never the same again.

I'm not sure why you think Melo can't hack it as a 2nd option, or a 1A/1B and even 1C when Tiny is on, but I assure you he would be fine.


There's been a plenty of players who can do X or Y but fail on the big stage. May be it's unfair given his teams but he's definitely not proven himself well enough on the big stage.





Tiny is my 6th Man, did you look at the rotation set up in the OP before voting?


You're still playing Tiny 30 mins. It's like playing Lou will 36 minutes when he can do the same amount of work in 28 minutes. Tiny also takes the ball away from Melo, who you say is your 2nd option and you haven't described Melo's ability to translate as a catch and shoot player if Tiny is going to be handling the ball around.




As I already broke down, my defenders will stay at home at his strong shooters - those being Price, Klay, Kerr and Blaylock - and he has no other strong scorers after LeBron. Klay failed as a 2nd option in real life on a 73-win team last year and in the last two Finals his production went to ****, let alone in an all-time game. As also mentioned, Butler has destroyed him in their matchups, holding him to 15 PPG and a ghastly 26% from 3.

My shooters don't have to keep up with his, LeBron has to try and out produce 3 of the best offensive players in NBA history with little help on that end against my elite defense. I didn't mention Sheed, because he's a good but not great shooter. Still, I'm not worried about leaving Sheed much as he is far from a great scorer. He never averaged 20 PPG once and scored 30 points or more 26 times - in his entire career. I have no issues with his offense gravitating towards Rasheed Wallace in an all-time game. That's a huge win for my defense.

To reiterate for Butler and his seemingly underrated game.

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Klay also isn't perfect for LeBron as a 2nd scorer. LeBron has only won championships with a 2nd scorer who can carry the teams at times going ISO and help him close games late in Wade and Kyrie. He doesn't have anyone remotely close to guys on that level. After LeBron, he doesn't have a strong ISO scorer period, let alone in an all-time game.

My D will shut down all of his other players, leaving LeBron having to try and outscore Hakeem, Melo and Tiny largely on his own. This while being guarded by AK47, Bowen and Melo switching off the stay fresh and driving into Hakeem at the rim. It didn't happen vs Orlando in 2009 or Golden State in 2015 and I don't see it happening here.

Then if you're telling me you're going to stay close to shooters then I'm going to pick Lebron over Bowen, AK, Christie, etc. And if you do close out on Lebron, you can't just go say Bowen/AK/ETC is going to shut down guys because they play good defense. Tell me how those guys did defending moving parts off screens. If you told me Bowen helps limit Lebron, well sure, Bowen is great at 1 on 1. But I don't (and you probably don't) know how well those guys would do rotation defense since you haven't described it. I can give you AK on help rotation defense since that was always his strenght but Christie and Bowen have always been a man to man defender, which would always not be as effective in how a Lebron team operates.

FOXHOUND
06-27-2017, 04:36 PM
There's been a plenty of players who can do X or Y but fail on the big stage. May be it's unfair given his teams but he's definitely not proven himself well enough on the big stage.

That's fair, but to also be fair that was as the #1 option and as you mentioned not on the strongest teams. On this team, he doesn't have to do anything crazy in terms of output between my strong defense and having Hakeem and Tiny as other top scorers. That's a strength of my team, in my mind. I'm not really reliant on any one offensive player having to do too much. I don't need the 35 PPG against Robinson in the WCF Hakeem, although him having that ability if I do need it is certainly a plus.



You're still playing Tiny 30 mins. It's like playing Lou will 36 minutes when he can do the same amount of work in 28 minutes. Tiny also takes the ball away from Melo, who you say is your 2nd option and you haven't described Melo's ability to translate as a catch and shoot player if Tiny is going to be handling the ball around.

But 3-year peak Tiny is one of the best offensive players ever, why wouldn't I play him? I did talk about Melo's catch and shoot ability, which is elite. I didn't think I had to describe that in full detail, I thought everyone knew? Two words: Olympic Melo.


Then if you're telling me you're going to stay close to shooters then I'm going to pick Lebron over Bowen, AK, Christie, etc. And if you do close out on Lebron, you can't just go say Bowen/AK/ETC is going to shut down guys because they play good defense. Tell me how those guys did defending moving parts off screens. If you told me Bowen helps limit Lebron, well sure, Bowen is great at 1 on 1. But I don't (and you probably don't) know how well those guys would do rotation defense since you haven't described it. I can give you AK on help rotation defense since that was always his strenght but Christie and Bowen have always been a man to man defender, which would always not be as effective in how a Lebron team operates.

Well the thing is, who is LeBron going to switch to? He's not going to run pick n rolls with Mark Price, is he? He's not hard to get under. Butler defends LeBron great and even Melo did well on LeBron over the years. Really, I have almost a perfect team to defend LeBron between my wing defenders, Melo as a switch option at PF and Hakeem at the rim. That was definitely part of the construction of my team. :)

I know I'm not shutting down LeBron, attempting that is suicide IMO. But I can focus on shutting down everyone else with my strong defenders and forcing LeBron to beat me by himself, and those defenders can eventually wear him out and slow him down. As long as he's running out of gas by the end of games and having some rough shooting games, I'm happy.

I have the advantage at PG, SG, PF and C. Is LeBron going to average 40 PPG in a series against defenders like that and Hakeem at the rim? I don't even see how that would be enough, or how his team is keeping up with mine when it's severely lacking a 2nd scorer who can help shoulder the load. LeBron is amazing but I think that team is way too LeBron reliant against a defense like mine.

valade16
06-28-2017, 04:56 PM
Baltimore Bullets win.