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View Full Version : Is Mike Conley a better fit for Cavs than Kyrie Ivring?



da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 11:29 AM
The Cavs as currently constructed simply isn't a match for the Warriors. At this stage if they want to keep James who has shown he's not afraid to leave and there's certainly no love lost between he and ownership the team needs to get better next season. With that understood how much is the front office willing to change? Minor tweaks doesn't close the gap there needs to be upgrades to the core of this team. Most will point to Love as the likely trade target(I would also look to trade Kevin btw) but after watching the Finals the biggest road block for the Cavs is Kyrie Irving. His ISO play style hampers the team when he's not red hot and he more often then not he's a liability on defense.

The obvious name that comes up is Chris Paul given his relationship with James and his own pending free agency coming up. However if Paul says no to the Cavs given that he seems to love L.A. and the money he'd have to leave. I think potentially(with all respect to CP3) the best option is to trade for Mike Conley. He is a far better fit with LeBron and is 3 years younger than Paul. He's a great defender(better than Paul IMO) and a knock down 3pt shooter. Capable of running the offense to take pressure off James yet still can space when LeBron runs the offense. But maybe most importantly is what Conley won't do that makes him a better fit for Cleveland and that's not forcing shots unlike Irving.

A deal like Irving and Shumpert for Conley would work. With Tony Allen and Zach Randolph expiring the Grizzs can retool around Irving and Gasol which seems like a great fit on paper.

IndyRealist
06-13-2017, 11:35 AM
The Grizz just maxxed Conley. Why would they trade him for what this thread essentially says is a lesser player?

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 11:48 AM
The Grizz just maxxed Conley. Why would they trade him for what this thread essentially says is a lesser player?

Irving is the more gifted offensive player out of Conley and Irving. The point is whether Conley is the better fit with James not the better player. I'd grade both players as B+.

edit: Also Irving is 4 years younger than Conley. Which would add incentive to a team that may not be ready to compete immediately.

IndyRealist
06-13-2017, 12:11 PM
Irving is the more gifted offensive player out of Conley and Irving. The point is whether Conley is the better fit with James not the better player. I'd grade both players as B+.

edit: Also Irving is 4 years younger than Conley. Which would add incentive to a team that may not be ready to compete immediately.

Statistically they're not that different offensively, Irving just shoots more while Conley is more efficient. And as everyone agrees, Conley is light years ahead defensively. And he's a more complimentary player not just to Lebron, but to everyone. I think Hollinger looks at that deal and hangs up.

LA4life24/8
06-13-2017, 12:14 PM
Nah.. Idt so. If you are gonna replace kyrie w another player it needs to be someone bron already has chemistry w so there's not as much growing pains all cp3. I wouldnt trade kyrie for him but I could see it happening

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 01:42 PM
Statistically they're not that different offensively, Irving just shoots more while Conley is more efficient. And as everyone agrees, Conley is light years ahead defensively. And he's a more complimentary player not just to Lebron, but to everyone. I think Hollinger looks at that deal and hangs up.

Stats aren't everything. Irving handles and ability to finish at the basket, while shooting the 3ball at a high clip puts way more pressure on defenses IMO. Not to mention he's 9 million cheaper and as I already mentioned 4 years younger. I definitely can see either side saying no or either side seeing value in a swap.

LOb0
06-13-2017, 01:50 PM
Bron needs to play with another scorer. Conley is more of a classic type PG.

Quinnsanity
06-13-2017, 01:53 PM
I used to be in the camp of "Kyrie is a chucker who does nothing but score, trade him for any other point guard you can get." He really won me over these Finals. He still takes bad shots, but his ability to get where he wants on the floor is incredible. Cleveland needs another guy who can make his own shot. Kyrie made the leap in these Finals. He's only in Year 6 and will continue to get better. You can't move him now.

Jets012
06-13-2017, 01:55 PM
Conley is a perfect fit for a ball-dominant wing. Plays defense. Better than most PGs playing off the ball (Kyrie actually is very good too). Can spot-up and shoot.

I don't know if they're any better with Conley than Kyrie, but I do think on a flat surface Conley might be a tiny bit better of a fit with LeBron.

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 01:57 PM
Bron needs to play with another scorer. Conley is more of a classic type PG.

Conley isn't Irving in terms of shot creation, but he's not a bum in that area either. Essentially what killed the Cavs IMO was poor defense and a lack of easy looks for the role players. Both of those areas are improved by replacing Irving with Conley.

IndyRealist
06-13-2017, 02:02 PM
Stats aren't everything. Irving handles and ability to finish at the basket, while shooting the 3ball at a high clip puts way more pressure on defenses IMO. Not to mention he's 9 million cheaper and as I already mentioned 4 years younger. I definitely can see either side saying no or either side seeing value in a swap.

Kyrie only takes 4 more shots per 36, and those 4 are all lower value shots. You'd be surprised how close they are offensively. And again, light years apart defensively.

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 02:05 PM
I used to be in the camp of "Kyrie is a chucker who does nothing but score, trade him for any other point guard you can get." He really won me over these Finals. He still takes bad shots, but his ability to get where he wants on the floor is incredible. Cleveland needs another guy who can make his own shot. Kyrie made the leap in these Finals. He's only in Year 6 and will continue to get better. You can't move him now.

It's funny I'm the exact opposite. Before these Finals I was more supportive of Irving and having watch him shoot the team out of this series I'm off of him especially considering the road to a title now goes through GS. The crazy part is Irving didn't shoot a horrible percentage. His shots were just way too quick too often and rarely involved other touching the ball. Those quick shots lead to a lot of GS fast break points because the offense wasn't set which put the defense behind. Irving's an amazing talent, but I don't see how the Cthey beat the Warriors with Kyrie playing the way he plays based on how the Cavs are built. I thought Cousins was their only chance coming in but the they chose to keep Love.

MrfadeawayJB
06-13-2017, 02:09 PM
Last year I would be happy to do that trade, but Conley really stepped it up this year. Also, Conley and Gasol's chemistry is not easily duplicated. Mike is amazing off the court and in the community as well. His loyalty has been a big plus and let's players in the league know that Memphis should be a prime location for players to come in FA. Almost ever player that has spent time here falls in love with the area. I just don't see how the trade makes Memphis much better, (def not good enough to beat a healthy GS)

FlashBolt
06-13-2017, 02:11 PM
You can't guard the Warriors. I don't like Conley at all. I think Kyrie's offensive talent is unstoppable when he's on so you can't disregard that he can win you a game or two if he's just going berserk. Cavs just didn't have enough weapons. With Iggy stepping up the way he did, more had to be done by the other guys. Love didn't show up at all. 6 points on horrific defense. I'm not sure what more they can do to fit Love into their system against the Warriors. There is no scenario where Love improves under the Cavs.

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 02:12 PM
Kyrie only takes 4 more shots per 36, and those 4 are all lower value shots. You'd be surprised how close they are offensively. And again, light years apart defensively.

Again I'm not trying to dog Conley. IMO he's slightly the better player. However they have different strengths and teams value those strengths differently. Irving is younger and cheaper and they add a player like Shumpert who could take over for Tony Allen. You could make the argument that if the Grizz are "retooling" letting Allen and Randolph go this offseason extends their window and they can use the cap space to sign other players closer to Irving age and compatibility. There are plenty of reason for the Grizz to do this even if they have Conley ranked as the better player today.

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 02:19 PM
Last year I would be happy to do that trade, but Conley really stepped it up this year. Also, Conley and Gasol's chemistry is not easily duplicated. Mike is amazing off the court and in the community as well. His loyalty has been a big plus and let's players in the league know that Memphis should be a prime location for players to come in FA. Almost ever player that has spent time here falls in love with the area. I just don't see how the trade makes Memphis much better, (def not good enough to beat a healthy GS)

These are all good points. However keeping Conley doesn't necessarily put the Grizz in a place to compete with GS next year either so not sure if that's the criteria. Allen and Randolph both are 35 and declining. This kind of deal is more eyeing the future when the Warriors should have to make some tough roster decisions.

IndyRealist
06-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Again I'm not trying to dog Conley. IMO he's slightly the better player. However they have different strengths and teams value those strengths differently. Irving is younger and cheaper and they add a player like Shumpert who could take over for Tony Allen. You could make the argument that if the Grizz are "retooling" letting Allen and Randolph go this offseason extends their window and they can use the cap space to sign other players closer to Irving age and compatibility. There are plenty of reason for the Grizz to do this even if they have Conley ranked as the better player today.

Oh of course not. I just don't think Irving has any advantage offensively over Conley. Trading for Irving still has you in a big, long contract only with a worse player. I don't think you can retool that way. Irving isn't going to attract free agents to Memphis and Shump doesn't move the needle. I'd still take Tony Allen any day. I just don't see how this retools the team.

da ThRONe
06-13-2017, 05:13 PM
Oh of course not. I just don't think Irving has any advantage offensively over Conley. Trading for Irving still has you in a big, long contract only with a worse player. I don't think you can retool that way. Irving isn't going to attract free agents to Memphis and Shump doesn't move the needle. I'd still take Tony Allen any day. I just don't see how this retools the team.

I don't think you're giving Irving enough credit, but your point is taken.

JasonJohnHorn
06-14-2017, 12:26 PM
Bron needs to play with another scorer. Conley is more of a classic type PG.

LBJ asked for another play maker. Kyrie doesn't make plays like COnley, or play defense as well.

And the Cavs have other scorers. Love. Smith.

With Conley, I think guys like Love would be even more effective than they already are.

But I'd prefer a CP3/LBJ tandem to a Conley/LBJ.

IKnowHoops
06-14-2017, 12:44 PM
I'm not sure, but I would not trade Kyrie for Conley. Kyrie has more value than Conley. I think the Cavs should think outside the box on this one. Let Lebron run the point, and fill your line up with aggressive wings scorers that play defenders. Thats why if I can flip Kyrie + Love for PG13 + Jimmy Butler, I do it in a heart beat. I want my backup PG to be on the big side as well with great defense.

Every player on the team has to play good to great defense. That should be a prerequisite for every player they bring on. You can't beat GS if you can't slow them down at all with your defense.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-14-2017, 02:19 PM
No way is Conley a better fit. Kyrie is perfect for this team. He allows Lebron to not have to do everything. They lost to GS because GS has an unfair team, not because Kyrie isn't a good fit. They would have lost even worse with Conley and certainly wouldn't have won last year without Kyrie.

da ThRONe
06-14-2017, 02:59 PM
No way is Conley a better fit. Kyrie is perfect for this team. He allows Lebron to not have to do everything. They lost to GS because GS has an unfair team, not because Kyrie isn't a good fit. They would have lost even worse with Conley and certainly wouldn't have won last year without Kyrie.

I would disagree. The Cavs are lacking defensively and the way Irving plays the game plays right into the hands of the Warriors unless he's on fire. Which he's usually not. Those quick shots kill the rhythm of the team. LeBron just average a triple double inbtje Finals and lead all players in all stats last Finals. That sounds like doing everything to me even with Irving on the team. Conley's more of a true point guard which would help get everyone involved. Which would actually help give James a rest. He couldn't leave the court this Finals without the team falling apart.

IndyRealist
06-14-2017, 03:10 PM
To paraphrase Scoots, you have to get everyone else involved to keep them motivated. Irving doesn't do that, Conley does. Lebron can play with anybody, but Conley might be better for the rest of the team.

Still wouldn't do the trade as Memphis, though.