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View Full Version : The Spurs would have won in 2013 if T-Mac played game 7



NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 12:34 AM
If he had Ginobli's minutes, they would have won game 7. Ginobli didn't have it that series, and T-Mac could still play well enough to be a difference maker.

LOb0
06-10-2017, 12:37 AM
If he had Ginobli's minutes, they would have won game 7. Ginobli didn't have it that series, and T-Mac could still play well enough to be a difference maker.

I firmly believe that. Manu was unbelievably horrible in that series. Coach Pop also cut Stephen Jackson that season, he also would have been enough.

GREATNESS ONE
06-10-2017, 12:50 AM
What?

LOb0
06-10-2017, 12:56 AM
What?

Manu had one of the worst finals in NBA history.

GREATNESS ONE
06-10-2017, 12:57 AM
Manu had one of the worst finals in NBA history.

Lol what?!?!?

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 01:01 AM
tmac didn't make a single basket in the playoffs that season but he would have been a better option. okay. got it.

GREATNESS ONE
06-10-2017, 01:02 AM
tmac didn't make a single basket in the playoffs that season but he would have been a better option. okay. got it.

FlashB gets it! Great post!

LOb0
06-10-2017, 01:06 AM
tmac didn't make a single basket in the playoffs that season but he would have been a better option. okay. got it.

If he just didn't turn the ball over repeatedly he would have been better than Manu

NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 01:07 AM
tmac didn't make a single basket in the playoffs that season but he would have been a better option. okay. got it.
Yes. He just wasn't being played. He wasn't being played because he was bad.

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 01:10 AM
If he just didn't turn the ball over repeatedly he would have been better than Manu

are we reading the same thing here?

Manu game 7: 18/3/5 with 4 turnovers.

OP is talking about game 7.
4 turnovers ain't a lot. It's what most ballhandlers will get in a tight game - which game 7 was.

So unless you're telling me t-mac can generate 20-25 points in game 7, there is no plausible scenario in that T-Mac would be a better option. and can anyone find the evidence that Manu's T/O's actually led to points in transition for Miami? I remember the one where he tossed it to LeBron trying to pass it to Duncan but any other examples?

NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 01:20 AM
are we reading the same thing here?

Manu game 7: 18/3/5 with 4 turnovers.

OP is talking about game 7.
4 turnovers ain't a lot. It's what most ballhandlers will get in a tight game - which game 7 was.

So unless you're telling me t-mac can generate 20-25 points in game 7, there is no plausible scenario in that T-Mac would be a better option. and can anyone find the evidence that Manu's T/O's actually led to points in transition for Miami? I remember the one where he tossed it to LeBron trying to pass it to Duncan but any other examples?
I haven't watched the series since it was live, but do remember Ginobli was very off. T-Mac, even though it was garbage time, showed he could still play and play smart basketball. This is no disrespect to Ginobli, he bounced back the next year, but T-Mac could have still had a positive impact then. I thought that during the series. Later on at some point I saw McGrady said he could have made a difference as well. It was short with him talking about it, and yeah he has confidence in himself, but I already thought that before they even talked about it. Pop just trusted Manu too much to a fault. McGrady could have helped close out the series before game 6. I'd understand if Pop trusted Manu over a rookie or something, but T-Mac was a superstar. He should have given him a shot.

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 01:28 AM
I haven't watched the series since it was live, but do remember Ginobli was very off. T-Mac, even though it was garbage time, showed he could still play and play smart basketball. This is no disrespect to Ginobli, he bounced back the next year, but T-Mac could have still had a positive impact then. I thought that during the series. Later on at some point I saw McGrady said he could have made a difference as well. It was short with him talking about it, and yeah he has confidence in himself, but I already thought that before they even talked about it. Pop just trusted Manu too much to a fault. McGrady could have helped close out the series before game 6. I'd understand if Pop trusted Manu over a rookie or something, but T-Mac was a superstar. He should have given him a shot.

you're missing the point.

1) you said game 7 - not the series. Manu played very well in game 7.
2) T-Mac never played in the reg season. I will go over this in a bit.
3) T-Mac never played in the postseason. He played garbage minutes but you can't trust t-mac, old and injured, to all of a sudden start making an impact. with him as your ballhandler (which Manu was occasionally), you are losing. 100%. He was finished.
4) Here's why T-Mac never played in the reg season.. i remember it clearly. Spurs brought in T-Mac so t-Mac could "mimic" LeBron because T-Mac had the length and size. It was so Kawhi could learn to defend against LeBron. He wasn't there to get any real minutes. I think t-Mac's ego was upset that he didn't at least get a chance to play in the game but really, i forgot t-mac was even playing. he was not a very good player at all that time.

The answer is simple: you don't put guys who aren't in your rotation in the NBA Finals. those few points they give up or mistakes they make can decide a game.

LOb0
06-10-2017, 01:31 AM
you're missing the point.

1) you said game 7 - not the series. Manu played very well in game 7.
2) T-Mac never played in the reg season. I will go over this in a bit.
3) T-Mac never played in the postseason. He played garbage minutes but you can't trust t-mac, old and injured, to all of a sudden start making an impact. with him as your ballhandler (which Manu was occasionally), you are losing. 100%. He was finished.
4) Here's why T-Mac never played in the reg season.. i remember it clearly. Spurs brought in T-Mac so t-Mac could "mimic" LeBron because T-Mac had the length and size. It was so Kawhi could learn to defend against LeBron. He wasn't there to get any real minutes. I think t-Mac's ego was upset that he didn't at least get a chance to play in the game but really, i forgot t-mac was even playing. he was not a very good player at all that time.

The answer is simple: you don't put guys who aren't in your rotation in the NBA Finals. those few points they give up or mistakes they make can decide a game.

Yeah i wasn't talking about game 7. Before that he was incredibly bad. All I remember is worst time turnovers over and over.

NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 01:38 AM
you're missing the point.

1) you said game 7 - not the series. Manu played very well in game 7.
2) T-Mac never played in the reg season. I will go over this in a bit.
3) T-Mac never played in the postseason. He played garbage minutes but you can't trust t-mac, old and injured, to all of a sudden start making an impact. with him as your ballhandler (which Manu was occasionally), you are losing. 100%. He was finished.
4) Here's why T-Mac never played in the reg season.. i remember it clearly. Spurs brought in T-Mac so t-Mac could "mimic" LeBron because T-Mac had the length and size. It was so Kawhi could learn to defend against LeBron. He wasn't there to get any real minutes. I think t-Mac's ego was upset that he didn't at least get a chance to play in the game but really, i forgot t-mac was even playing. he was not a very good player at all that time.

The answer is simple: you don't put guys who aren't in your rotation in the NBA Finals. those few points they give up or mistakes they make can decide a game.
I could be wrong with Game 7. As I said, it's been four years. I do believe still though T-Mac would have been better. Don't forget that T-Mac was a savvy veteran. He was available, not injured. It's not like Ginobli was their only star on the team and that's why Pop rolled with him. And I'm talking about giving T-Mac a shot, not just benching Manu for entire games. McGrady showed his last few seasons that he could still play without his prime athleticism. Only difference was his role.

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 01:41 AM
I could be wrong with Game 7. As I said, it's been four years. I do believe still though T-Mac would have been better. Don't forget that T-Mac was a savvy veteran. He was available, not injured. It's not like Ginobli was their only star on the team and that's why Pop rolled with him. And I'm talking about giving T-Mac a shot, not just benching Manu for entire games. McGrady showed his last few seasons that he could still play without his prime athleticism, only difference was his role.

but t-mac couldn't play. I remember the Hawks series. I don't know who they played but I just saw a slow t-mac who could barely keep up with the younger guys. We're talking about a guy who was though 33, really looked like a 38 year old. his injuries just screwed him up. I've said it before, if t-mac was at his prime and healthy, he would have been lebron's biggest rival - certainly in the East. But the facts are facts, T-Mac at age 33 with an injured history is no bueno. You say savvy veteran, Manu is as veteran as you can be. Manu's presence on the court is 100x more effective than THAT t-mac. We can agree or disagree but Pop seriously plays everyone down to the last guy on the bench. If he felt t-mac would have helped, he would have played him.

NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 01:54 AM
but t-mac couldn't play. I remember the Hawks series. I don't know who they played but I just saw a slow t-mac who could barely keep up with the younger guys. We're talking about a guy who was though 33, really looked like a 38 year old. his injuries just screwed him up. I've said it before, if t-mac was at his prime and healthy, he would have been lebron's biggest rival - certainly in the East. But the facts are facts, T-Mac at age 33 with an injured history is no bueno. You say savvy veteran, Manu is as veteran as you can be. Manu's presence on the court is 100x more effective than THAT t-mac. We can agree or disagree but Pop seriously plays everyone down to the last guy on the bench. If he felt t-mac would have helped, he would have played him.
Oh I know Pop plays everybody. He's great. Manu was very bad though. T-Mac didn't have to do much. Just take care of the ball, move it well, etc. GUARANTEED they would have the series? No. I do think it would have increased their chances though. I'd like to watch this series again. At that time it was pretty evident to me how many bad plays Manu had and all it took was somebody to play smart and be composed.

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 02:21 AM
Oh I know Pop plays everybody. He's great. Manu was very bad though. T-Mac didn't have to do much. Just take care of the ball, move it well, etc. GUARANTEED they would have the series? No. I do think it would have increased it though. I'd like to watch this series again. At that time it was pretty evident to me how many bad plays Manu had and all it took was somebody to play smart and be composed.

it's easy to look back at it and say that, though. If you made me choose, I'd take Manu over T-mac any day that year. any day or any second. live with the mistakes.

PowerHouse
06-10-2017, 07:01 AM
If somebody would've just put a box-out on Bosh Spurs win that series.

/Thread

flea
06-10-2017, 01:43 PM
If somebody would've just put a box-out on Bosh Spurs win that series.

/Thread

Basically this.

Spurs lost the closest Finals I've ever seen live, a total coin flip series. Who knows what T-Mac would have done? He wasn't that good when he sported a Spurs uni and he wasn't an integrated part of the rotation. However that was definitely the year Manu's legs lost it. He's still getting around on grit but it was just so obvious against the most athletic team in the league that he'd lost a step.

All that said, I don't think Manu was the difference. Outside of the Bosh rebound and Allen 3, it was Parker's hammy that really tilted the series back towards the Heat. Absent that injury I think the Spurs definitely close.

NetsPaint
06-10-2017, 05:42 PM
If somebody would've just put a box-out on Bosh Spurs win that series.

/Thread
Or make one more free throw. If Spurs did little things that would have had them win in regulation in game 6, LeBron might have only one definitive championship (against the Thunder). Not bashing LeBron at all, but he fell into a little bit of fortune along his way to being a three time champion.

JordansBulls
06-10-2017, 11:37 PM
They would have won with Tim Duncan in the game the last 30 seconds of game 6 instead of Boris Diaw. That's like having Samaki Walker in the game the last 30 seconds of game 7 vs Sacramento instead of Shaq

metswon69
06-11-2017, 04:03 AM
The OP admits to not even watching the game live.

Ending this thread.