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MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:08 PM
No other way around it.

Lebron's the reason why his teams get there in the first place. He carries bad team above and beyond where they should finish. Learn the economics of basketball before you post bullsh*t.

GREATNESS ONE
06-08-2017, 01:15 PM
Lol what? Lebron didn't hand pick his team the last 7/8 years? Would he have gone to to the finals that many times in the West?


He's a great player but some of the bs on here is hilarious.

Yes he doesn't have enough help :laugh2:


Super Team #3 coming this Summer.

Big Zo
06-08-2017, 01:20 PM
He was outplayed by JJ Barea in 2011.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:22 PM
Lol what? Lebron didn't hand pick his team the last 7/8 years? Would he have gone to to the finals that many times in the West?


He's a great player but some of the bs on here is hilarious.

Yes he doesn't have enough help :laugh2:


Super Team #3 coming this Summer.

Just making the Finals is a huge accomplishment it's not Lebron's fault if the Heat/Cavs/Whoever win or lose because he's always the best player on the court. A team full of Lebron's would win all the time. Basketball is a team sport. Thats why a super TEAM like Golden State is beating Lebron he doesn't have the talent around him that they do. Without Lebron the Cavs don't pass the Celtics.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:23 PM
He was outplayed by JJ Barea in 2011.

Found 1. Lebron haters are a joke.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 01:24 PM
Mets, Jets, Nets, Islanders? Ouch...

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:26 PM
Mets, Jets, Nets, Islanders? Ouch...

I love rooting for the underdog teams in New York. It's easy to be a Yankees Giants Rangers Knicks fan.

aman_13
06-08-2017, 01:27 PM
I have NEVER..

Muttman73
06-08-2017, 01:27 PM
LeBron and his giant ego caused this mess. If he hadn't been such a selfish, greedy bastard there would be no super teams, and maybe ... just maybe it would be enjoyable watching the NBA finals.
It's called KARMA, here is a healthy dose Mr. Annual NBA Finals loser, you brought this on your self.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-08-2017, 01:28 PM
He was outplayed by JJ Barea in 2011.
Lmao this.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:31 PM
LeBron and his giant ego caused this mess. If he hadn't been such a selfish, greedy bastard there would be no super teams, and maybe ... just maybe it would be enjoyable watching the NBA finals.
It's called KARMA, here is a healthy dose Mr. Annual NBA Finals loser, you brought this on your self.

The Celtics caused this putting together Allen Pierce and KG.

But of course you'll blame Lebron and look foolish doing so.

Big Zo
06-08-2017, 01:31 PM
I love rooting for the underdog teams in New York. It's easy to be a Yankees Giants Rangers Knicks fan.

No such thing as an "underdog New York team." All of them have money up the *** to spend on acquiring talent. Some are just horribly run.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:35 PM
No such thing as an "underdog New York team." All of them have money up the *** to spend on acquiring talent. Some are just horribly run.

You live in Florida and therefore have no idea. Plus the Mets made the World Series 2 years ago.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2017, 01:36 PM
You can't specifically blame any one player for a team loss. However, there have been teams that have found a way to neutralize him enough and keep his teammates down. **** happens

ODB13
06-08-2017, 01:37 PM
I don't blame him, but...

The final possessions were a microcosm of why LBJ is not in the running for GOAT and never will be. He kicked it out for a teammate to take a 3. Durant squared up hip shoulders and drilled a 30 footer.

LeBron has never had the killer instinct. You can see him diminish in those moments.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:42 PM
Lebron's the GOAT already. Look at the stats.

You speak of him like he's ringless.

He carried the Cavs down 3-1 last year.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:43 PM
Lebron's Cavaliers beat the greatest regular season team of all time down 3-1.

aman_13
06-08-2017, 01:43 PM
He deserves blame for 2011 and he lost convincingly in 2014. Those are two legitimate losses. The others are tough to pin on him.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 01:43 PM
Lebron's the GOAT already. Look at the stats.

You speak of him like he's ringless.

He carried the Cavs down 3-1 last year.

No, he's not...

ODB13
06-08-2017, 01:43 PM
Lebron's the GOAT already. Look at the stats.

You speak of him like he's ringless.

He carried the Cavs down 3-1 last year.

Do you really, honestly believe he's #1 all time?

Big Zo
06-08-2017, 01:45 PM
You live in Florida and therefore have no idea. Plus the Mets made the World Series 2 years ago.

New York is the biggest market in the world. It doesn't take living there to realize that. All of those teams are financially loaded thanks to TV contracts and such. There's no reason why those teams shouldn't be competing more than they have.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:46 PM
Do you really, honestly believe he's #1 all time?

Yes and he's only 32. Plenty left in the tank.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 01:47 PM
Yes and he's only 32. Plenty left in the tank.

Plenty of more championships to lose, and plenty of more games to choke away.

Hangtime
06-08-2017, 01:48 PM
The Celtics caused this putting together Allen Pierce and KG.

But of course you'll blame Lebron and look foolish doing so.

Yep

Nobody brings this up. Lebron going to Miami was a response to what the Celtics had done. It was their way to counter them. The Celtics would have continued to whup the east *** if not for Miami.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:48 PM
New York is the biggest market in the world. It doesn't take living there to realize that. All of those teams are financially loaded thanks to TV contracts and such. There's no reason why those teams shouldn't be competing more than they have.

New York has the most pro sports championships of any city. :D

It takes living here to know Long Island vs. Manhattan/Bronx

The teams I root for arent as rich as you think.

GREATNESS ONE
06-08-2017, 01:49 PM
LeBron and his giant ego caused this mess. If he hadn't been such a selfish, greedy bastard there would be no super teams, and maybe ... just maybe it would be enjoyable watching the NBA finals.
It's called KARMA, here is a healthy dose Mr. Annual NBA Finals loser, you brought this on your self.

Great post, well said.

Mr_Jones
06-08-2017, 01:49 PM
As if saying "stupid idiot" wasn't bad enough...

Sounds like a 14 year old girl screaming at people who are bashing her beloved Jonas Brothers. Leave Britney alone!

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:50 PM
Plenty of more championships to lose, and plenty of more games to choke away.

Lebron's going to win again. He'll find a way.

I think it means leaving Cleveland asap

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:50 PM
As if saying "stupid idiot" wasn't bad enough...

Sounds like a 14 year old girl screaming at people who are bashing her beloved Jonas Brothers. Leave Britney alone!

Another Lebron hater found and spotted.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:51 PM
Yep

Nobody brings this up. Lebron going to Miami was a response to what the Celtics had done. It was their way to counter them. The Celtics would have continued to whup the east *** if not for Miami.

Thankfully someone with COMMON SENSE

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Lebron's Cavaliers beat the greatest regular season team of all time down 3-1.


First off who cares if he beat the greatest regular season team of all time, that team lost in the finals so there not even a top 40 team all time. Secondly they only win because Draymond got suspended, and finally, Kyrie is the reason he has that ring, Kyries big shot won that series. LeBron is not the GOAT , stop.

And LeBron shriveled in the last 2 minutes yesterday. Every one of Durants last shots were in his face, also turned the ball over with a chance to win. MJ was the complete opposite in the clutch.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:55 PM
First off who cares if he beat the greatest regular season team of all time, that team lost in the finals so there not even a top 40 team all time. Secondly they only win because Draymond got suspended, and finally, Kyrie is the reason he has that ring, Kyries big shot won that series. LeBron is not the GOAT , stop.

And LeBron shriveled in the last 2 minutes yesterday. Every one of Durants last shots were in his face, also turned the ball over with a chance to win. MJ was the complete opposite in the clutch.

The stats don't lie. Lebron is GOAT. Look at the points scored.

GREATNESS ONE
06-08-2017, 01:56 PM
Lol Lebronnis not the Goat, please stop bro. He's a great player but no way is he better than some Of the legends.....

Magic, Mike, Kareem? I mean c'mon lol

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 01:57 PM
Thankfully someone with COMMON SENSE

No where near the same, the Celtics traded for there parts, and Kobe and Pay beat that team they were not that good. LeBron is the first mega star to collude with other stars in there prime to play together. Nice try though.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 01:57 PM
First off who cares if he beat the greatest regular season team of all time, that team lost in the finals so there not even a top 40 team all time. Secondly they only win because Draymond got suspended, and finally, Kyrie is the reason he has that ring, Kyries big shot won that series. LeBron is not the GOAT , stop.

And LeBron shriveled in the last 2 minutes yesterday. Every one of Durants last shots were in his face, also turned the ball over with a chance to win. MJ was the complete opposite in the clutch.

When did MJ ever face a team half as good as this Warriors team? Get real.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:58 PM
It's funny. I see Lebron haters as the 14 year old girls crying.

Leave Jordan Alone!! Wahhh Wahh

Bosston
06-08-2017, 01:59 PM
The stats don't lie. Lebron is GOAT. Look at the points scored.

points scored? that makes someone the goat? the job of an nba player is to win games, with the ultimate goal being championships. he's not the goat...

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 01:59 PM
Lol Lebronnis not the Goat, please stop bro. He's a great player but no way is he better than some Of the legends.....

Magic, Mike, Kareem? I mean c'mon lol

LMAOOOOOOO take a lap

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 02:00 PM
The stats don't lie. Lebron is GOAT. Look at the points scored.

If Stats were all that mattered he would be the GOAT, unfortunately that's not how this works.

If you the best 5 guys on 1 team with LeBron on 1 team and Jordan on the other. Jordan's team would win every time.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:02 PM
points scored? that makes someone the goat? the job of an nba player is to win games, with the ultimate goal being championships. he's not the goat...

He's the best player ever at scoring points. You need those to win games. The job of a player is to score as many points as they can and help their teammates score enough points to win games. Your logic is *****

GREATNESS ONE
06-08-2017, 02:03 PM
lol it's frustrating arguing with people 1/2 my age or so.... I get it, we all want to witness the best of all time. We all want to live and tell but don't let time fool you... some of the legends in the past were just as or even greater than the talent nowadays.


All good, you guys believe what you want, the people who actually do this for a living and peers from the history of the sport are well more informative than people on PSD.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:04 PM
If Stats were all that mattered he would be the GOAT, unfortunately that's not how this works.

If you the best 5 guys on 1 team with LeBron on 1 team and Jordan on the other. Jordan's team would win every time.

That's not true. More idiot logic.

I'm tearing through all of you on this thread.

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 02:05 PM
When did MJ ever face a team half as good as this Warriors team? Get real.

Who cares if MJ never faced a team this good, the reason for that is because before this Warriors team that Bulls team was considered the greatest, and he led that team. People feared Jordan, no one is scared of LeBron. Also Jordan never had a scorer avg more than 22 in the playoffs. Can't say the same for LeBron. The only people in the world who think LeBron is the GOAT are a few space cadets on PSD and Colin Cowherd and Rachel Nichols. LeBron is great, maybe number 3 or 4 all time. I think Jordan, Magic and Kareem are still ahead of him.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:07 PM
He's the best player ever at scoring points. You need those to win games. The job of a player is to score as many points as they can and help their teammates score enough points to win games. Your logic is *****

but if he's the goat of scoring points and helping his team mates score enough points to win games then how the **** does he lose all these series in the finals?

PayDaPiper
06-08-2017, 02:09 PM
Lebron's the GOAT already. Look at the stats.

You speak of him like he's ringless.

He carried the Cavs down 3-1 last year.

No GOAT would have the highest payroll in league history and get swept out of the finals, period.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:10 PM
Who cares??? Lebron is facing the GOAT team ever assembled year after year about to go 16-0 in the Playoffs after winning a ring in 2015 and going 73-9 in 2016. Lebron defeated the greatest team ever assembled down 3-1.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:11 PM
I would also like to point out that in the 90's and earlier there was a thing called defense in the league... they also called travels. (In basketball, traveling is a violation of the rules that occurs when a player holding the ball moves one or both of their feet illegally. Most commonly, a player travels by illegally moving his or her pivot foot or taking more than 3 steps without dribbling the ball).

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 02:11 PM
He's the best player ever at scoring points. You need those to win games. The job of a player is to score as many points as they can and help their teammates score enough points to win games. Your logic is *****

Except it took LeBron way more years to score those points.

Rings 6 MJ LeBron 3
Finals MVP MJ 6 LeBron 3
Scoring titles Jordan 9 LeBron 3
Finals record MJ 6-0 LeBron 3-5
All defensive teams MJ 11 LeBron 5
Defensive player of the year MJ 1 LeBron
All NBA first team MJ 13 LeBron 9

These are that stats that matter

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:12 PM
Who cares??? Lebron is facing the GOAT team ever assembled year after year about to go 16-0 in the Playoffs after winning a ring in 2015 and going 73-9 in 2016. Lebron defeated the greatest team ever assembled down 3-1.

So what do you call the 2017 Warriors if the 2016 team was the greatest team ever assembled? That means that he is being swept by a team that is worse than last years...

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:12 PM
I would also like to point out that in the 90's and earlier there was a thing called defense in the league... they also called travels. (In basketball, traveling is a violation of the rules that occurs when a player holding the ball moves one or both of their feet illegally. Most commonly, a player travels by illegally moving his or her pivot foot or taking more than 3 steps without dribbling the ball).

Leave it to a Bostonian to be the threads biggest little baby.

1986 Haha Red Sox choked

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:13 PM
So what do you call the 2017 Warriors if the 2016 team was the greatest team ever assembled? That means that he is being swept by a team that is worse than last years...

The greatest postseason team ever assembled.

Do you not have a brain?

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:14 PM
Leave it to a Bostonian to be the threads biggest little b***ch

1986 Haha Red Sox choked

Well... they didn't in 04, 07, and 13.

Your Mets are currently 11.5 games out and it's the 8th of June...

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:15 PM
Bosston is mad his team got beat by Lebron instead of being a big boy and appreciating greatness.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 02:15 PM
He's the best player ever at scoring points. You need those to win games. The job of a player is to score as many points as they can and help their teammates score enough points to win games. Your logic is *****

Um, he also had the ability to start playing younger than some of the all-time scoring leaders. No?

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:16 PM
Well... they didn't in 04, 07, and 13.

Your Mets are currently 11.5 games out and it's the 8th of June...

My Mets made the 2015 World Series while your Red Sox stayed in last place/irrelevancy.

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 02:16 PM
Who cares??? Lebron is facing the GOAT team ever assembled year after year about to go 16-0 in the Playoffs after winning a ring in 2015 and going 73-9 in 2016. Lebron defeated the greatest team ever assembled down 3-1.

If you think MJ would ever get swept your crazy, LeBron may get swept again. And no one cares about that team last year, again that was a paper champion team who would have won had Draymond not for suspended. And LeBron hand picked his team, so the fact he is getting crushed is on him. He forced Cleveland to resign JR Smith and Tristan, he demanded the team trade for Korver and sign D Will. He has Kyrie and Love and he is about to get swept. He asked for all of this. And first chance he gets he will bolt for a better situation.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:16 PM
Bosston is mad his team got beat by Lebron instead of being a big boy and appreciating greatness.

I'm not a Celtics fan... but nice try. They sure did **** your Nets royally though lol.

GoferKing_
06-08-2017, 02:16 PM
Dayum, this dude is on a mission. xD

PayDaPiper
06-08-2017, 02:17 PM
Lol this guy is trolling hard

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:17 PM
Well... they didn't in 04, 07, and 13.

Your Mets are currently 11.5 games out and it's the 8th of June...

Why did the Pats choke 2 times to the Giants???

It's going to be delicious when Lebron joins the Knicks. Keep crying! LOL

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 02:18 PM
Dude this kid is probably 12 years old. The LeBron homers have got out of hand. Its actually getting very amusing

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:18 PM
My Mets made the 2015 World Series while your Red Sox stayed in last place/irrelevancy.

Such an accomplishment lol... now they're a laughing stock.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Creates thread violating PSD rules of name calling.

Then accuses others of being immature?

Cool.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Lebron is so great that his team carried him to end and gave him a chance to win the game. James had all these points but when crunch time was approaching James was awful. 0 points in the last 3 mins for James is a choke. Getting the ball stolen on the game deciding play just makes you the biggest clown from yesterday.

aman_13
06-08-2017, 02:20 PM
LeBron dominated his era of ball, an era that quickly turned into the pace and space era. Bigs evolved into stretch bigs and are now standing at the 3 point line. It's easier to score now than ever before, so to suggest LeBron is the best ever based on points scored is absurd imo.

The paint used to be congested and now it is wide open.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:20 PM
Such an accomplishment lol... now they're a laughing stock.

Not by any means. Just injured. Badly.

Once they get arms healthy they'll be fine.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:21 PM
Lebron is so great that his team carried him to end and gave him a chance to win the game. James had all these points but when crunch time was approaching James was awful. 0 points in the last 3 mins for James is a choke. Getting the ball stolen on the game deciding play just makes you the biggest clown from yesterday.

Another Bostonian with a seething hate for Lebron James.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2017, 02:22 PM
ESPN has an article on LeBron vs MJ, and their finals opponents. Their findings show that basically, the if you average the strength of all 6 teams MJ beat, that would equal the 2007 Spurs, the weakest opponent James faced.

Obviously not the gospel to run with, but for anyone that bothers doing the research, LeBron has faced a much tougher finals schedule than Jordan did. But, you play what is front of you..

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:22 PM
Creates thread violating PSD rules of name calling.

Then accuses others of being immature?

Cool.

No one wants to see your nerdish naked selfie profile pic.

But there it is. BDawk (eagles fan??)

da ThRONe
06-08-2017, 02:22 PM
I don't blame him, but...

The final possessions were a microcosm of why LBJ is not in the running for GOAT and never will be. He kicked it out for a teammate to take a 3. Durant squared up hip shoulders and drilled a 30 footer.

LeBron has never had the killer instinct. You can see him diminish in those moments.

This is the most illogical way to approach sports. Passing the ball to Kyle Korver for an open corner 3 is a great decision. The pass he made to Kevin Love was outstanding and should have been called a foul. LeBron really isn't a great 3 point shooter like Durant. Why force a low percentage shot when you can get a great percentage shot? I'll never get the logic behind it.

PayDaPiper
06-08-2017, 02:23 PM
Another Bostonian with a seething hate for Lebron James.

Why are you such a Lebron dick rider?

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:23 PM
Not by any means. Just injured. Badly.

Once they get arms healthy they'll be fine.

You keep thinking that... world series here they come.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Why are you such a Lebron dick rider?

He's the best ever at what he does and will just keep adding stats since he's just 32.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 02:25 PM
ESPN has an article on LeBron vs MJ, and their finals opponents. Their findings show that basically, the if you average the strength of all 6 teams MJ beat, that would equal the 2007 Spurs, the weakest opponent James faced.

Obviously not the gospel to run with, but for anyone that bothers doing the research, LeBron has faced a much tougher finals schedule than Jordan did. But, you play what is front of you..

Are we going to pretend that the game of basketball is the same and that all things are equal?

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:25 PM
I'm actually rooting for Golden State this year so Lebron leaves Cleveland.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:25 PM
^^^ l m f a o

aman_13
06-08-2017, 02:25 PM
ESPN has an article on LeBron vs MJ, and their finals opponents. Their findings show that basically, the if you average the strength of all 6 teams MJ beat, that would equal the 2007 Spurs, the weakest opponent James faced.

Obviously not the gospel to run with, but for anyone that bothers doing the research, LeBron has faced a much tougher finals schedule than Jordan did. But, you play what is front of you..

How did they measure the strength of those opponents and did they adjust for style of play? Pace?

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:26 PM
You keep thinking that... world series here they come.

Not this year, but maybe next year. Cespedes is hurt too.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 02:26 PM
Another Bostonian with a seething hate for Lebron James.

Don't be silly I don't hate the guy. I see the good in everyone. I'm always fair.

Hangtime
06-08-2017, 02:27 PM
No where near the same, the Celtics traded for there parts, and Kobe and Pay beat that team they were not that good. LeBron is the first mega star to collude with other stars in there prime to play together. Nice try though.

That Cavs team wasnt beating Celtics in a seven game series. Antawn Jamison got killed by KG. Boston was there to stay. And the Cavs support was no threat. I dont blame him for leaving that summer one bit.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 02:27 PM
Don't be silly I don't hate the guy. I see the good in everyone. I'm always fair.

Then you are welcome on this post!

Hip Hip Jorge!

PayDaPiper
06-08-2017, 02:27 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 02:29 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

LeBron's trying to draw a foul in a critical possession. Draymond does it for no reason out of the blue. Huge difference.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 02:31 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

I was told it was the normal act of shooting.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2017, 02:31 PM
How did they measure the strength of those opponents and did they adjust for style of play? Pace?

they used ELO ratings

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-we-calculate-nba-elo-ratings/

not a perfect science, but a good measureable. And in reality, isn't it obvious? Some of those earlier teams Jordan beat were flat out weak.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 02:33 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

Lebron needs to just admit he's awful in the clutch. He's one of the greatest choke job players in the clutch if not the poster boy for clutch choke. Once he accepts that he can pull himself out the game like Shaq would. We don't blame Shaq for sitting and it don't effect his legacy. If Shaq pulled a Lebron and kept himself in the game and pulled lebron level chokes then that would affect the way we see Shaq.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:33 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

Because its Lebron and he commits no fouls, ever... but when he drives to the basket bulldozing over Steph (who is half his size) he gets the call.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 02:34 PM
LeBron's trying to draw a foul in a critical possession. Draymond does it for no reason out of the blue. Huge difference.

LOL green is just awesome

bucketss
06-08-2017, 02:35 PM
How come no one says anything when Lebron does it

https://twitter.com/Mospeights16/status/872820527819345921

lebron doesn't have a history of kicking people there, draymond though is obsessed with that area. which makes me feel his snapchat leak over the summer wasn't really an accident.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 02:47 PM
Are we really saying Lebron kicked Iggy in the nuts intentional? That's a leg kick to draw a foul. Should be an offensive foul for doing that but it's perfectly clear there was no intent there to kick anyone in the nuts. It's as perfectly clear as it is that Draymond's all were intentional.

aman_13
06-08-2017, 02:53 PM
they used ELO ratings

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-we-calculate-nba-elo-ratings/

not a perfect science, but a good measureable. And in reality, isn't it obvious? Some of those earlier teams Jordan beat were flat out weak.

Thanks. I mostly asked out of curiosity. I dislike comparing eras because they were not as evolved analytically. The emphasis on 3 point shooting did not exist and was seen as gimmick in some light.

Today's game is just soft.

RowBTrice
06-08-2017, 02:54 PM
Lebron is a crybaby, he's a faker, he always has a dozen excuses ready, it's never his fault, he's always looking for the easy way out, etc. Is he talented? Hell yes. Is he like-able? Hell no. Is it just him? Hell no.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 02:55 PM
Are we really saying Lebron kicked Iggy in the nuts intentional? That's a leg kick to draw a foul. Should be an offensive foul for doing that but it's perfectly clear there was no intent there to kick anyone in the nuts. It's as perfectly clear as it is that Draymond's all were intentional.

Oh the bias...

aman_13
06-08-2017, 02:57 PM
You watch a great game and the point of discussion is about the most petty ****.

Bosston
06-08-2017, 02:58 PM
Reggie Miller started the whole leg kick ******** for you youngins...

aman_13
06-08-2017, 02:58 PM
...

RowBTrice
06-08-2017, 03:01 PM
Wait was this thread created by Chris Jericho????????

eDush
06-08-2017, 03:08 PM
No other way around it.

Lebron's the reason why his teams get there in the first place. He carries bad team above and beyond where they should finish. Learn the economics of basketball before you post bullsh*t.No one is blaming Lebron for that other than trolls to tick people like you off and it seems to work since you just created a thread solely to argue against :laugh2:.

If you don't like it, I suggest you ignore the trolls and calm down okay? They serve a purpose on here which is to generate entertainment which I can relate to :nod:

D-Leethal
06-08-2017, 03:15 PM
LeBron maneuvers himself to teams that are a shoe-in for the Finals, you have to judge him how he fares against teams that actually belong the same level, even if some of them are better.

There hasn't been a team in the same stratosphere of Cleveland or Miami in the East the past 7 years. His competition began in the Finals each year. He hasn't done very good in that department. I give him a 100% pass this year though and last year erased a lot of criticisms in my mind with his all-time comeback performance against the 73 win Warriors.

But losing to Mavs and getting absolutely obliterated by 2014 Spurs are tough to absolve him for in GOAT conversations.

More-Than-Most
06-08-2017, 03:25 PM
Lol what? Lebron didn't hand pick his team the last 7/8 years? Would he have gone to to the finals that many times in the West?


He's a great player but some of the bs on here is hilarious.

Yes he doesn't have enough help :laugh2:


Super Team #3 coming this Summer.

32/12/12 on 60 plus percent shooting in these finals... historic performance... carried them like only he could the entire first half yesterday and realized he needed to get his team involved for them to win considering he was perfect damn near at 10/11 for 27 points at half and they were down 5.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 03:30 PM
Oh the bias...

Come on man, you can't be serious. That's a known thing to kick your leg out. Curry had one on JR Smith in the bottom corner 3 during the 4th on the play Iggy got the put back. It's such a known thing that the NBA specifically started to talk about the leg kick on 3s to draw contact (though obviously it was hollow words because they never call it). No one in their right mind would see that play and think he tried to kick Iggy in the nuts. It's not like the Draymond play at all. Not even a little bit.

More-Than-Most
06-08-2017, 03:30 PM
lol i am actually glad he kicked him and they didnt call a foul... even i wouldnt want lebron going to the line for a game tying 3 free throws.... No way he makes all 3 lol... that would be choking lmfao

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 03:31 PM
Come on man, you can't be serious. That's a known thing to kick your leg out. Curry had one on JR Smith in the bottom corner 3 during the 4th on the play Iggy got the put back. It's such a known thing that the NBA specifically started to talk about the leg kick on 3s to draw contact (though obviously it was hollow words because they never call it). No one in their right mind would see that play and think he tried to kick Iggy in the nuts. It's not like the Draymond play at all. Not even a little bit.

So far nothing the Cavs do is ever like what GS does:

Fouls
Carrying
Forming teams
Nut kicks

What's next?

More-Than-Most
06-08-2017, 03:33 PM
lol you're just trying to be argumentative troll like always I need to stop falling for it

:nod:

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 03:34 PM
So far nothing the Cavs do is ever like what GS does:

Fouls
Carrying
Forming teams
Nut kicks

What's next?

lol you're just trying to be argumentative troll like always I need to stop falling for it

More-Than-Most
06-08-2017, 03:39 PM
please dont close this thread yet... i am using it as proof the site is having issues... I am back to posting from the future as you can see with the 2 posts above me.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 03:41 PM
lol you're just trying to be argumentative troll like always I need to stop falling for it

He seemed a bit different than the rest. Not a borderline excessive troll like the rest but it seems he couldn't resist the urge and troll now. It's cool. Ignore button works wonders lately.

R. Johnson#3
06-08-2017, 03:42 PM
I love rooting for the underdog teams in New York. It's easy to be a Yankees Giants Rangers Knicks fan.

You clearly haven't been watching the Knicks for the last decade.

nastynice
06-08-2017, 03:46 PM
I see nothing wrong with blaming lebron. I personally wouldnt, not sure how much better he could have played, but LeBron is judged by diff standards. He's one of the best to have ever played, so this is the type of weight we put on his shoulders

MygirlhatesCod
06-08-2017, 03:49 PM
not uh. you are!

SteBO
06-08-2017, 03:49 PM
lol you're just trying to be argumentative troll like always I need to stop falling for it
That's what happens when it's just too easy to expose the stupidity. I'm guilty of it too.

On topic though, LBJ only true stains to me is when he lost to the Mavs in 2011, and we can have a debate about Boston in the 2010 ECSF. Other than those, we're talking about a player who's been the underdog in about every Finals series he's played in. He's only player to beat the dynastic Spurs in the Finals, he beat an OKC that was favored over him, and he came back from 3-1 last year against an all-time team in GSW. I'm not holding these Finals against him at all on top of the 2007 Finals and the 2015 Finals, two series where his teams was clearly outclassed either due to injuries to key players or inept support.

Muttman73
06-08-2017, 04:01 PM
Yeah, pretty sure your the one looking foolish with you LBJ crush.

Me and Mr. T
06-08-2017, 04:04 PM
Other than when he brought the Cavs to the finals the first time, he's hand picked every team he's been on since he left there. He deserves all the blame for his soon to be 3-5 record in the finals.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 04:06 PM
That's what happens when it's just too easy to expose the stupidity. I'm guilty of it too.

On topic though, LBJ only true stains to me is when he lost to the Mavs in 2011, and we can have a debate about Boston in the 2010 ECSF. Other than those, we're talking about a player who's been the underdog in about every Finals series he's played in. He's only player to beat the dynastic Spurs in the Finals, he beat an OKC that was favored over him, and he came back from 3-1 last year against an all-time team in GSW. I'm not holding these Finals against him at all on top of the 2007 Finals and the 2015 Finals, two series where his teams was clearly outclassed either due to injuries to key players or inept support.

Should not have lost to ORL in 2009, BOS in 2010 or DAL in 2011. Those are all stains on his legacy. He's arguably the GOAT in a spot that while a team game is as close to an individual game as it can be. Those are stains for sure.

kdspurman
06-08-2017, 04:06 PM
I changed the thread title to not sound so childish...

aman_13
06-08-2017, 04:10 PM
please dont close this thread yet... i am using it as proof the site is having issues... I am back to posting from the future as you can see with the 2 posts above me.

I thought I was tripping.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:10 PM
Should not have lost to ORL in 2009, BOS in 2010 or DAL in 2011. Those are all stains on his legacy. He's arguably the GOAT in a spot that while a team game is as close to an individual game as it can be. Those are stains for sure.

You can't blame him for losing against Orlando. Literally, that might have been the best playoff series ever from any player. His PER was 40. Something was bad that series and it wasn't him.

Muttman73
06-08-2017, 04:12 PM
One last comment for this juvenile thread, besides 6 championships, that 6-0 in the finals MJ has something else that LeBron never will have, it's called class. Jordan made his teammates better, LBJ just demands better teammates to mask his inadequacies.

aman_13
06-08-2017, 04:13 PM
Dray told KD that they don't need him for the regular season, they need him for the finals lol.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:15 PM
One last comment for this juvenile thread, besides 6 championships, that 6-0 in the finals MJ has something else that LeBron never will have, it's called class. Jordan made his teammates better, LBJ just demands better teammates to mask his inadequacies.

It's easy to say that when you have ZERO clue what went on during that time. You rarely heard about any drama in a locker room because unless it was from the newspaper, you had no source. And Jordan punched Kerr so if you're saying "made" his teammates better, what exactly does that even mean? Charles Oakley - one of Jordan's best friends and teammate said he would rather play with LeBron and that he made Jordan better. So your narrative you try and push has zero grounds. If social media existed then, Jordan would 100% be looked upon differently.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 04:15 PM
lol you're just trying to be argumentative troll like always I need to stop falling for it

I'm actually not. I'm being serious. Everything that has been brought up related to this series has been that nothing seems to be the same regarding the 2 teams. Is that not a fair assessment?

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:16 PM
That's what happens when it's just too easy to expose the stupidity. I'm guilty of it too.

On topic though, LBJ only true stains to me is when he lost to the Mavs in 2011, and we can have a debate about Boston in the 2010 ECSF. Other than those, we're talking about a player who's been the underdog in about every Finals series he's played in. He's only player to beat the dynastic Spurs in the Finals, he beat an OKC that was favored over him, and he came back from 3-1 last year against an all-time team in GSW. I'm not holding these Finals against him at all on top of the 2007 Finals and the 2015 Finals, two series where his teams was clearly outclassed either due to injuries to key players or inept support.

He has been favored in only two Finals out of 8 yet, we act like he's an overwhelming favorite for each one.

SteBO
06-08-2017, 04:17 PM
Should not have lost to ORL in 2009, BOS in 2010 or DAL in 2011. Those are all stains on his legacy. He's arguably the GOAT in a spot that while a team game is as close to an individual game as it can be. Those are stains for sure.
I'm not sure I'm with you on ORL. I know the Cavs were the #1 seed, but I guess I just thought highly of that Magic team. My thought process then was they had size in the backcourt to give Mo Williams and Delonte West difficulty defensively and Dwight was a beast, not to mention the superior shooting. And LeBron James was nothing short of spectacular, he just didn't have the horses. Heck I thought the Cs the better team in 2010, but LeBron didn't help himself with his play that series, notably Games 5 & 6. He was passive and disengaged, despite the #s suggesting otherwise.

He's got his stains for sure, though. Won't dispute it.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 04:20 PM
Disagree with a Lebron fan = troll

The NFL Main warned me about the NBA main.

For the record I think both Draymond and LBJ were intentional with their kicks to their opponents. But yeah, just trollin.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:25 PM
Can you go back to the NFL thread? No one cares. You act like a damn troll and you're a mod? Lmao, Hawkeye told me he was a mod for months and did nothing. I guess if Trump can be a president, you can be a mod while trolling.

BKLYNpigeon
06-08-2017, 04:32 PM
Hell Yes you can Blame Lebron. Doest deserve all the blame, but he does deserve some of it.

As much credit het gets if he would wins. He gets blame for losing.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 04:34 PM
I'm actually not. I'm being serious. Everything that has been brought up related to this series has been that nothing seems to be the same regarding the 2 teams. Is that not a fair assessment?

I mean they are. I don't know what to tell you. The Lebron kick should have been an offensive foul. Like I said, it's a normal shooter's trick that the NBA has tried to put an emphasis on. I mean I'm not in Lebron's head but if you look at that kick and think it was an intentional nut shot you have an agenda. It's a pretty clear coincidence that he kicked him there. He was clearly trying to kick him but to draw contact not in a "I'm pissed so I'm kicking you in the balls" Draymond Green type of way. I say it's different because it is.

Lebron did put himself in the best position to win like KD did. You're right - stripped down to the bare bone argument it's the same. But I'm not going to dumb myself down to strip things to the bare bone argument. I think it's lame Lebron hops from team to team when it's convenient and never lets his team build. He uses them, dries up their assets, then bounces. That's what he did to CLEm then MIA and seem on the verge of doing it to CLE again. But, as I explained earlier, Lebron's supporting casts in MIA and then CLE where he won are two of the weaker supporting casts in NBA history. It's better than one time fluke champs like the 03-04 Pistons or those Mavs he choked against. But compared to other great players' supporting casts it was/is weak. That's just the reality of how little parity there is in NBA history. It's lame that he keeps hopping to new teams but he's not building these unbeatable juggernauts like people accuse him. He's said multiple times he's chasing Jordan and he's had the type of teams good enough for him to try and elevate to championships. Durant joined a team that was an all time great roster with a solid player (Barnes) in his place. To me that's a different animal. You don't do that if you're a competitive person, I'm sorry. You just don't. And that's fine - it's his choice. But I can call him out on being a wuss for it. Maybe Lebron would - IDK for sure - but everything he's ever said about chasing legacy makes me think he'd never be that big of a wimp if he had the choice. You disqualify yourself from that GOAT talk if you do stuff like join up with already one of the best teams ever even without you.

I'm not going to pretend that GS and CLE are the same in everything. Sure both guys got kicked in the nuts but the circumstances are totally different and it'd be dumb to equate them. Sure KD and Lebron both did what was the best spot to win but the circumstances are totally different. I'm not going to just strip things down to the bare bones because point blank it'd be moronic to do so. Specifics matter. I don't know what to tell you.

If I punched someone in the face because I thought they were ugly you wouldn't just equate it to me punching someone that spit on a girl. Sure the bare bones argument is I punched someone in the face but it'd be stupid to pretend that those are the exact same thing and not recognize the different.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 04:35 PM
Lebron chokes once again and his fans are mad because once again "we are all witnesses".

Jewelz0376
06-08-2017, 04:36 PM
I don't hold the first finals against him or his first loss against the warriors. I hold the other losses against him though. He shouldn't have lost to the Mavs. I maybe would've give him a pass against the Spurs in his last finals with the Heat except for the fact he lost by a record margin.

I also can't help but think about the two huge breaks in two of his finals wins. Ray Allen saved Lebrons legacy as being a top 3/5 all time player with his 3 and they would've lost last year if draymond didn't get suspended.

Lebron is an all time great player obviously. One of the best I've ever seen, but there is something missing with him. Last night is a perfect example of my issue with Lebron his whole career at times. He will play great for most of the game and then when it's late in the 4th and it's time for him to close the deal he doesn't perform to the same level.

Lebron will go down as a great, but barring some miracle comeback in this series any Lebron/Jordan talk is ridiculous to me.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:37 PM
I don't hold the first finals against him or his first loss against the warriors. I hold the other losses against him though. He shouldn't have lost to the Mavs. I maybe would've give him a pass against the Spurs in his last finals with the Heat except for the fact he lost by a record margin.

I also can't help but think about the two huge breaks in two of his finals wins. Ray Allen saved Lebrons legacy as being a top 3/5 all time player with his 3 and they would've lost last year if draymond didn't get suspended.

Lebron is an all time great player obviously. One of the best I've ever seen, but there is something missing with him. Last night is a perfect example of my issue with Lebron his whole career at times. He will play great for most of the game and then when it's late in the 4th and it's time for him to close the deal he doesn't perform to the same level.

Lebron will go down as a great, but barring some miracle comeback in this series any Lebron/Jordan talk is ridiculous to me.

Yeah, it's over. But I don't see how you can blame him for that Spurs series, too. No one on his team showed up and Spurs just played some of the best basketball any team could have played. And if we're judging LeBron by the Finals, we gotta judge the competition, too. Many of Jordan's Finals opponents weren't exactly impressive.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 04:44 PM
Only finals i really blame is 2011. He had no business losing to that Dallas team.

Every loss is reasonable

07: He's 23-24 with his best player Mo Williams going against Parker/Manu/Duncan at their prime. 23 year old MJ isn't beating that. Sorry.

11:stated above

12:Won
13:won
14: Wade was breaking apart during that time and Bosh wasn't good enough go against a more experience and having KL at the time rising as a player

15: He had no Kyrie or Love. Idc how good MJ is. He isn't beating a team without Scottie period
16:Won

17:Looks like he lost but this Warriors team is just flat out better that its not funny. Imagine if the 96 bulls added Kareem or Barkley during that time. Thats exactly it with the 73 win Warriors adding Durant.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:44 PM
Only finals i really blame is 2011. He had no business losing to that Dallas team.

Every loss is reasonable

07: He's 23-24 with his best player Mo Williams going against Parker/Manu/Duncan at their prime. 23 year old MJ isn't beating that. Sorry.

11:stated above

12:Won
13:won
14: Wade was breaking apart during that time and Bosh wasn't good enough go against a more experience and having KL at the time rising as a player

15: He had no Kyrie or Love. Idc how good MJ is. He isn't beating a team without Scottie period
16:Won

17:Looks like he lost but this Warriors team is just flat out better that its not funny. Imagine if the 96 bulls added Kareem or Barkley during that time. Thats exactly it with the 73 win Warriors adding Durant.

Barkley? Not even. Barkley wasn't the 2nd best player in the world. It'd be like the Warriors adding Hakeem.

Jordan
Hakeem
Pippen
Rodman

That's what it would be.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 04:49 PM
And lets be honest. I would take all thee version of the Warriors teams over any of MJ opponents.

13/14 Spurs team is better then all of MJ opponents

Sonic is maybe above OKC
Suns is better then Dallas

07 Spurs is better then all of those teams as well.

Magic is old in 91
Clyde in 92? Come on
I'll give the Barkely and the Suns credit
Sonics were good but not good enough
Jazz are equal to the Clippers if the Clippers were actually playing with a team concept.

MJ is the GOAT but his opponents pale in comparison to what Lebron faced at least 6 of his 8 opponents are better then everything MJ face.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 04:50 PM
Barkley? Not even. Barkley wasn't the 2nd best player in the world. It'd be like the Warriors adding Hakeem.

Jordan
Hakeem
Pippen
Rodman

That's what it would be.

But you get my point though. Its like adding one of the best players during that era and putting him on that 96 bulls team. Idk how people don't see that with the Warriors

Edit: i meant Hakeem not Kareem in my earlier post

One Nut Kruk
06-08-2017, 04:54 PM
Creates thread violating PSD rules of name calling.

Then accuses others of being immature?

Cool.

Have you ever seen any of his other threads/posts? No clue how he doesn't get banned for sheer ridiculousness let alone name calling.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 04:55 PM
Only finals i really blame is 2011. He had no business losing to that Dallas team.

Every loss is reasonable

07: He's 23-24 with his best player Mo Williams going against Parker/Manu/Duncan at their prime. 23 year old MJ isn't beating that. Sorry.

11:stated above

12:Won
13:won
14: Wade was breaking apart during that time and Bosh wasn't good enough go against a more experience and having KL at the time rising as a player

15: He had no Kyrie or Love. Idc how good MJ is. He isn't beating a team without Scottie period
16:Won

17:Looks like he lost but this Warriors team is just flat out better that its not funny. Imagine if the 96 bulls added Kareem or Barkley during that time. Thats exactly it with the 73 win Warriors adding Durant.

Why? Kobe took down that same exact team one year later. Then a couple more times after to make sure everyone knew it's Kobe thing, to take down Super Spurs teams that Jordan or James couldn't even come close to taking them down.

I mean the Spurs team Kobe was beating was so great that James losing to these lesse Spurs team is automatically excused. That's how great these losing to Kobe Spurs team where.

Jewelz0376
06-08-2017, 04:56 PM
Yeah, it's over. But I don't see how you can blame him for that Spurs series, too. No one on his team showed up and Spurs just played some of the best basketball any team could have played. And if we're judging LeBron by the Finals, we gotta judge the competition, too. Many of Jordan's Finals opponents weren't exactly impressive.

I think the Jazz were a damn good team with Stockton and Malone, but he didn't go up against some of the all time teams like Lebron. At the same time though besides Boston a few times I don't think Lebrons had much resistance in the East in this finals run he's own, so I'm not going to hold Jordan's finals competition against him anymore than I hold Lebrons east competition.

ODB13
06-08-2017, 05:00 PM
I blame LeBron for not closing. His team was up two points with under a minute and had possession. As always, LeBron deferred to a teammate to take the shot that would've iced it. Unfortunately, the other player wasn't Ray Allen.

No killer instinct. Never had one. Which is why he's about to be 3-6 in Finals.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 05:01 PM
I mean they are. I don't know what to tell you. The Lebron kick should have been an offensive foul. Like I said, it's a normal shooter's trick that the NBA has tried to put an emphasis on. I mean I'm not in Lebron's head but if you look at that kick and think it was an intentional nut shot you have an agenda. It's a pretty clear coincidence that he kicked him there. He was clearly trying to kick him but to draw contact not in a "I'm pissed so I'm kicking you in the balls" Draymond Green type of way. I say it's different because it is.

Lebron did put himself in the best position to win like KD did. You're right - stripped down to the bare bone argument it's the same. But I'm not going to dumb myself down to strip things to the bare bone argument. I think it's lame Lebron hops from team to team when it's convenient and never lets his team build. He uses them, dries up their assets, then bounces. That's what he did to CLEm then MIA and seem on the verge of doing it to CLE again. But, as I explained earlier, Lebron's supporting casts in MIA and then CLE where he won are two of the weaker supporting casts in NBA history. It's better than one time fluke champs like the 03-04 Pistons or those Mavs he choked against. But compared to other great players' supporting casts it was/is weak. That's just the reality of how little parity there is in NBA history. It's lame that he keeps hopping to new teams but he's not building these unbeatable juggernauts like people accuse him. He's said multiple times he's chasing Jordan and he's had the type of teams good enough for him to try and elevate to championships. Durant joined a team that was an all time great roster with a solid player (Barnes) in his place. To me that's a different animal. You don't do that if you're a competitive person, I'm sorry. You just don't. And that's fine - it's his choice. But I can call him out on being a wuss for it. Maybe Lebron would - IDK for sure - but everything he's ever said about chasing legacy makes me think he'd never be that big of a wimp if he had the choice. You disqualify yourself from that GOAT talk if you do stuff like join up with already one of the best teams ever even without you.

I'm not going to pretend that GS and CLE are the same in everything. Sure both guys got kicked in the nuts but the circumstances are totally different and it'd be dumb to equate them. Sure KD and Lebron both did what was the best spot to win but the circumstances are totally different. I'm not going to just strip things down to the bare bones because point blank it'd be moronic to do so. Specifics matter. I don't know what to tell you.

If I punched someone in the face because I thought they were ugly you wouldn't just equate it to me punching someone that spit on a girl. Sure the bare bones argument is I punched someone in the face but it'd be stupid to pretend that those are the exact same thing and not recognize the different.

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you keep typing.

WaDe03
06-08-2017, 05:01 PM
Great post, well said.

Are you and lol, please the same person? You all say the same **** and rumor is he used to be a Lakers fan.

D Blue987
06-08-2017, 05:04 PM
Lebron's Cavaliers beat the greatest regular season team of all time down 3-1.

Lets not act like there weren't highly important factors to why that happened. Draymonds suspension, Boguts season ending injury, etc.

BDawk4Prez
06-08-2017, 05:05 PM
Can you go back to the NFL thread? No one cares. You act like a damn troll and you're a mod? Lmao, Hawkeye told me he was a mod for months and did nothing. I guess if Trump can be a president, you can be a mod while trolling.

I'm not a mod.

You're really bad at this.

burtgummer
06-08-2017, 05:12 PM
Lol Bron Bron fan boys are already crying and the series isn't over yet (will be soon)
The quicker you learn that he isn't as good as MJ the better off you'll be

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 05:41 PM
I'm not a mod.

You're really bad at this.

Sorry BDawk4Prez is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

You're something. Can't ignore you at all.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 06:24 PM
I blame LeBron for not closing. His team was up two points with under a minute and had possession. As always, LeBron deferred to a teammate to take the shot that would've iced it. Unfortunately, the other player wasn't Ray Allen.

No killer instinct. Never had one. Which is why he's about to be 3-6 in Finals.

You're wrong beyond belief keep living in that bubble.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 06:24 PM
Lebron carried teams that didn't belong in the Finals to the finals. He's the GOAT at age 32, the best is yet to come. He'll win another ring.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 06:32 PM
Why? Kobe took down that same exact team one year later. Then a couple more times after to make sure everyone knew it's Kobe thing, to take down Super Spurs teams that Jordan or James couldn't even come close to taking them down.

I mean the Spurs team Kobe was beating was so great that James losing to these lesse Spurs team is automatically excused. That's how great these losing to Kobe Spurs team where.

Kobe had Pau one year later. Your comparing a team with kobe/pau/bynum/odom to lebron and mo freaking williams. Really?

By the time Lebron went to Miami Kobe's dominance was done

flea
06-08-2017, 06:34 PM
I blame LeBron for not closing. His team was up two points with under a minute and had possession. As always, LeBron deferred to a teammate to take the shot that would've iced it. Unfortunately, the other player wasn't Ray Allen.

No killer instinct. Never had one. Which is why he's about to be 3-6 in Finals.

I don't think it has anything to do with kill instinct, he's just never been a good enough scorer in that role. He's never been the guy you want taking late game, end of clock shots against a set defense. Cleveland found that out the first time when they put a top tier defense around him, the Heat found that out when Wade would often get those possessions, and the Cavs this time use Irving because that's his skillset.

The closest Lebron has come to that was the middle of his time in Miami when he had a reliable elbow jumper he could step into. That really opened the paint up for him because he's really good going right or left (for a forward at least) if he's got a defender on his hip. Now he never shoots that shot anymore. He traded that for his fadeaway 3s - which he has gotten a lot better at and which look good on advanced stat sheets but aren't going to win you games in those scoring situations.

We saw his scoring game last night in the post on those MJ-esque fadeaways. Problem is he can't make them consistently because they're probably the hardest shot next to a running hook and he's never been good shooting without his body set.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 06:35 PM
Lebron carried teams that didn't belong in the Finals to the finals. He's the GOAT at age 32, the best is yet to come. He'll win another ring.
Name one team that belongs in the finals this year over Cleveland? Name one team the past 4 years that should of beat his team and made it to the finals?

James is just not good enough anymore. His matchup is the reason the Cavs are losing. If James could win his matchup against Durant then his team has a chance. James joke of defense against the wrost version of Durant these playoffs on the game deciding basket is what cost the Cavs the game.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 06:39 PM
Kobe had Pau one year later. Your comparing a team with kobe/pau/bynum/odom to lebron and mo freaking williams. Really?

By the time Lebron went to Miami Kobe's dominance was done

I was letting it known that the Super Spurs team that you said Jordan himself could not take down WAS taken down by Kobe(more then once in embarrassing fashion). We give James a pass for losing to that Spurs team so Kobe should get a huge bump for dominating that same Spurs team.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 06:40 PM
Name one team that belongs in the finals this year over Cleveland? Name one team the past 4 years that should of beat his team and made it to the finals?

James is just not good enough anymore. His matchup is the reason the Cavs are losing. If James could win his matchup against Durant then his team has a chance. James joke of defense against the wrost version of Durant these playoffs on the game deciding basket is what cost the Cavs the game.

Laughable.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 06:44 PM
I was letting it known that the Super Spurs team that you said Jordan himself could not take down WAS taken down by Kobe(more then once in embarrassing fashion). We give James a pass for losing to that Spurs team so Kobe should get a huge bump for dominating that same Spurs team.

You can't be this ignorant.

I never said Jordan couldn't take down these same teams. Read my post. I said even MJ without Pippen(for 2015) wouldn't be able to beat them by himself. Learn to read before you come up with a poor rebuttal like that

And once again if you think Lebron and Mo Williams should be good enough to beat Parker/Manu/Duncan in their prime and compare that with Kobe with Pau/Bynum/Odom then your close minded.

Mind you idc if lebron is the goat and I still think MJ IS the goat but the ignorance on this forum is ridiculous.

Vintage
06-08-2017, 06:46 PM
Why? Kobe took down that same exact team one year later. Then a couple more times after to make sure everyone knew it's Kobe thing, to take down Super Spurs teams that Jordan or James couldn't even come close to taking them down.

I mean the Spurs team Kobe was beating was so great that James losing to these lesse Spurs team is automatically excused. That's how great these losing to Kobe Spurs team where.

Moron. Do you even watch?

likemystylez
06-08-2017, 06:52 PM
to be honest ring counting is a lazy way to compare stars anyway. Rings are a team achievement, not an individual one. Look at MVP's, All star appearances, All Nba Teams, and PER to see how good individual players are.

MJNetsIsles
06-08-2017, 06:55 PM
to be honest ring counting is a lazy way to compare stars anyway. Rings are a team achievement, not an individual one. Look at MVP's, All star appearances, All Nba Teams, and PER to see how good individual players are.

Thank you! Common sense as opposed to IGNORANCE is always appreciated.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 06:56 PM
Moron. Do you even watch?
Of course I watch. I not saying crap like Cleveland beat the Super Toronto Raps and shocked the world to make the finals every year. Hiw can anyone argue that James is carrying anything in east? It's the east. You don't have to carry anything. John wall almost made it to the East finals this year with zero points in the 4th.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 07:01 PM
LeBron has half the assists of the Cavailers. Think about that. Seriously, THINK about that. When you take into consideration that he's scoring 30 points per game, this guy is seriously contributing about 60% of his team's total points.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 07:03 PM
You can't be this ignorant.

I never said Jordan couldn't take down these same teams. Read my post. I said even MJ without Pippen(for 2015) wouldn't be able to beat them by himself. Learn to read before you come up with a poor rebuttal like that

And once again if you think Lebron and Mo Williams should be good enough to beat Parker/Manu/Duncan in their prime and compare that with Kobe with Pau/Bynum/Odom then your close minded.

Mind you idc if lebron is the goat and I still think MJ IS the goat but the ignorance on this forum is ridiculous.

James, Wade and Bosh is enough to beat out of prime old Duncan, old Ginobli and old Parker? Yet they lost worst then in 2007. So I don't get it. James gets more help then in 2007 and that same Spurs team is barley even alive in 2015 and not even close to the 2007 Spurs yet James does worse?

That basically goes against the excuse on why he lost.

He played a weaker Spurs team and James had a much better cast then in 2007 yet he lost worst.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 07:07 PM
James, Wade and Bosh is enough to beat out of prime old Duncan, old Ginobli and old Parker? Yet they lost worst then in 2007. So I don't get it. James gets more help then in 2007 and that same Spurs team is barley even alive in 2015 and not even close to the 2007 Spurs yet James does worse?

That basically goes against the excuse on why he lost.

He played a weaker Spurs team and James had a much better cast then in 2007 yet he lost worst.

Did you also forget that Wade was breaking down that same year they lost against the spurs? Wade his first year with lebron is loads better then that last year. Not even close.

You can argue that spurs team was just as good if not better then 07 for the simple fact that KL and other younger guys help shape that team on top of parker and manu being there.

Hangtime
06-08-2017, 07:23 PM
James, Wade and Bosh is enough to beat out of prime old Duncan, old Ginobli and old Parker? Yet they lost worst then in 2007. So I don't get it. James gets more help then in 2007 and that same Spurs team is barley even alive in 2015 and not even close to the 2007 Spurs yet James does worse?

That basically goes against the excuse on why he lost.

He played a weaker Spurs team and James had a much better cast then in 2007 yet he lost worst.
Wade was hardly a factor with his injury. He wasn't 100 percent. And you fail to mention the more assertive Leonard who was the finals MVP in that series. He was on fire on both ends of the floor.

Hangtime
06-08-2017, 07:29 PM
I really don't understand how you guys make these silly comparisons and not take things like injuries, adjustments made by coaching staffs, different role players who made a huge difference and so forth. The added motivation of a team who is avenging a previous loss. All these things matter. The Spurs were better the second time around. The warriors are better this time around. The Cavs were better last year than the previous year. All for various reasons.

blams
06-08-2017, 07:53 PM
Do you really, honestly believe he's #1 all time?
That isn't absurd at all. He's easily number 2. So for someone to believe that isn't 'astounding'.

He is hands down the best all around player ever.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 08:04 PM
32/12/12 on 60 plus percent shooting in these finals... historic performance... carried them like only he could the entire first half yesterday and realized he needed to get his team involved for them to win considering he was perfect damn near at 10/11 for 27 points at half and they were down 5.

10 points total in the 4 quarters combined. Turnover in the biggest moment. Sometimes LeBron needs to be more selfish, Jordan would never let a team go on a 11-0 run with 50 seconds left

L8kers4life
06-08-2017, 08:07 PM
LeBron has half the assists of the Cavailers. Think about that. Seriously, THINK about that. When you take into consideration that he's scoring 30 points per game, this guy is seriously contributing about 60% of his team's total points.

Dude who cares, he has the ball in his hands every play, the entire offense is built around him, he makes every play. He has great players in his team but none are playmakers, so LeBron is ran through on every play

bucketss
06-08-2017, 08:16 PM
10 points total in the 4 quarters combined. Turnover in the biggest moment. Sometimes LeBron needs to be more selfish, Jordan would never let a team go on a 11-0 run with 50 seconds left

nice, lets leave out the first two games were blowouts so 4th quarter stats are obviously skewed. you're right though about jordan only because hes a much better one on one scorer.

BKLYNpigeon
06-08-2017, 08:44 PM
Lebron deserves some blame not all of it.

archdevil84
06-08-2017, 09:01 PM
if lebron wouldve had gregg popvich as a head coach he would be 11-11 in the NBA finals right now. a man can dream cant he :(?

BKLYNpigeon
06-08-2017, 09:07 PM
if lebron wouldve had gregg popvich as a head coach he would be 11-11 in the NBA finals right now. a man can dream cant he :(?

Don't think Lebron would be coachable with Pop.

FOXHOUND
06-08-2017, 09:22 PM
You can't blame him for 2015 at all. You can blame him for 2007 and 2014 for not being as competitive as it could have been, but still not for losing. You can maybe add 2017 to that previous list, since they win yesterday if he doesn't miss so many layups, but 1 game isn't a huge difference. Then again, maybe that 1 win turns around the series and it at least goes to 6 or 7, who knows? You can 100% blame him for 2011.

On the other hand, you can't give him too much credit for making the Finals so much out of a garbage conference where he has had obscene talent compared to his peers. He obviously doesn't make the Finals in the west in these years where his team got pulverized when they got there. Don't see why he doesn't choke in 2011 earlier vs Dallas like he did in 2010 vs Boston, either.

It's a two way street.

JordansBulls
06-08-2017, 10:06 PM
Well if in the West when does he get to the finals? He would have a battle for the most part in every series. In round 1 he would not have had HCA in any series this year out West. In 2007 he would have played the Spurs in the west in round 1 as the Jazz were the 4th seed with Houston 5th and then Cleveland had the next best record.

Crackadalic
06-08-2017, 10:14 PM
Well if in the West when does he get to the finals? He would have a battle for the most part in every series. In round 1 he would not have had HCA in any series this year out West. In 2007 he would have played the Spurs in the west in round 1 as the Jazz were the 4th seed with Houston 5th and then Cleveland had the next best record.

In the west he would have been on a better team then those earlier cavs teams so you don't know how lebron would have perform

The other thing people overlook is he has done what he has done without a hof coach. MJ/Kobe had Phil. Spurs had Pop etc. Who is lebron best coach? Spo?

RowBTrice
06-08-2017, 10:29 PM
Well if in the West when does he get to the finals? He would have a battle for the most part in every series. In round 1 he would not have had HCA in any series this year out West. In 2007 he would have played the Spurs in the west in round 1 as the Jazz were the 4th seed with Houston 5th and then Cleveland had the next best record.

In the west he would have been on a better team then those earlier cavs teams so you don't know how lebron would have perform

The other thing people overlook is he has done what he has done without a hof coach. MJ/Kobe had Phil. Spurs had Pop etc. Who is lebron best coach? Spo?

I honestly believe that if bron bron wanted a hof coach he could of had one. But he didn't. He never has. He wants a coach he can control, one who lets him call the shots. It is bron bron's fault he never had a hof coach, no one else's

Bostonjorge
06-08-2017, 11:00 PM
So we can't blame him for losing but sweeping the 6 weakest playoff teams the past 3 years gets you closer to Jordan?

I like how we have to point out what failures are not counting when James is ranked. Then we have to address the epic chokes he's had as the only reason he's not Jordan. Like scoring 0 points in the 3 final mins. His fans are alreay making the dumbest excuses ever. Like he has as much help as he had points in the clutch. Zero.

LA_Raiders
06-08-2017, 11:04 PM
Lol, he is the architect on the teams he plays. He deserves the blame.

TylerSL
06-08-2017, 11:45 PM
I do feel badly for Lebron in these Finals. Kevin Durant's decision to go to Golden State is NOT comparable to Lebron going to the Heat (or even joining Kyrie and getting Love back in Cleveland). Yes Lebron created a super team when he joined up with Wade and Bosh, but that was just the start of a super team. Miami wasn't world beaters until he got there. The Golden State Warriors were the 2x reigning Western Conference Champions, had the 2x reigning league MVP (coming off a unanimous league MVP season), just broke the single season wins record at 73-9, and already had won an NBA championship with a huge window still wide open BEFORE Durant ever showed up. Long story short, Lebron created a monster and Kevin Durant jumped on a bandwagon.

While it is on Lebron to win in the Finals, nobody (not even Jordan's Bulls) has a shot against this Warriors team, not with the rules today at least. Because of that fact he won't be judged too harshly for losing these Finals, nor will he in the future if he losses to these Warriors. But what is most disappointing about Lebron is he should honestly have more than 3 NBA Championships at this point in his career. Lets review his career to add some context.

Years 1-3 (03-04/05-06): Too early in his career to truly compete for title.

Year 4 (06-07): Carried the worst Finals team of all time to the Finals at 22, they had no shot against the Spurs.

Year 5 (07-08): The Celtics formed their super team and Lebron couldn't beat them. Again, his team wasn't the best team. Maybe he takes some slack for losing, just as Kobe would for losing in the Finals this season against Boston, but the Celtics were just the best team.

Year 6 (08-09): This year hurts Lebron IMO because with KG missing the playoffs with injury, there is no reason Lebron shouldn't have made at least the Finals with no Celtics team to contend with. This should have been the Lebron vs Kobe Finals everyone always wanted. Even though Lebron averaged 38.5/8/8 in the Orlando series, the Cavs were the better team and lost. I find it unlikely Lebron's Cavs would have triumphed over Kobe's Lakers but at the least it was a Finals appearance he should have had.

Year 7 (09-10): Yes Cleveland was the #1 seed, but the Celtics treated the 09-10 regular season the way Lebron treats them now. That became evident when they suddenly crushed everyone in the Eastern Conference and was a Kendrick Perkins injury away from beating the Lakers again in the Finals. Some blame does go to Lebron the way blame goes to any star player who loses (think James Harden/John Wall/Isiah Thomas) but again, the Celtics were the best team.

Year 8 (10-11): This is the fateful year that will haunt him for all time. It is completely, 100 ****ing percent, his fault the Heat did not beat the Mavericks. This should have been his first title win but his monumental choke for the ages cost him a ring. Seriously, 8 points in one game........

Years 9 and 10 (11-12/12-13): He won, bringing his Finals record to 2-2 (though he should have been 3-2 at this point, losing to the Lakers in 09 and beating Dallas in 2011, completing a 3 peat in the process)

Year 11 (13-14): The Heat got destroyed by the Spurs by a much wider margin than they should have. Lebron played well but the team was worn down and the Spurs were much hungrier after losing in such epic fashion the year before.

Year 12 (14-15): His first year back in Cleveland and he really just got unlucky. The Cavaliers should and would have won these Finals had it not been for injuries. Still however, Lebron's Finals record fell to 2-4, though I believe it should have been 4-3 at this point (with an 08-09 Finals appearance vs Kobe, not choking in 2011, and his team dealing with injuries in these Finals)

Year 13 (15-16): As he was unlucky in 2015, he was equally as lucky in 2016. The Golden State Warriors should have beaten the Cavaliers in these Finals. They were supposed to be the greatest team of all time at 73-9 and were up 2-0 and then 3-1 in the series. Even with Draymond getting suspended in Game 5, they still had 2 opportunities to win the series in Games 6 and 7, 7 at home no less. The Warriors choked in the Finals last year. It wasn't Draymond getting suspended, it was Steph making behind the back passes in the final minutes of Game 7 and Harrison Barnes playing like ****. Lebron got one of the championships he should have won (2015) back. Lucky him and his Finals record went to 3-4. (Again, I think it should have been 4-4 with losses in 07 vs Spurs, 09 vs Lakers, 14 vs Spurs, and 16 vs Warriors with wins being 11, 12, and 13 with the Heat, and 15 with the Cavs).

Year 14 (16-17): This one is simple, nobody can beat Golden State, Durant really did break the league this season. In the seasons to come I'm sure another great team will come about to challenge Golden State but there wasn't anyone this season that could, not even Lebron James. He will fall to 3-5 in the Finals but again, I say his record should be at least 4-5 in the Finals.

When Lebron loses these Finals, his Finals record will be 3-5, but I will always think it should be 4-5, 5-4 if he was extremely lucky. I can't say if his Cavs were healthy in 15 he would have won in 16 as well. The Warriors would have been that much hungrier had they lost in 15 and at the same time, if Ray Allen hadn't nailed that 3 in game 6 in 13, he would have lost that series too. The only thing I can say for certain, he should have won the title in 2011 and made a Finals appearance against Kobe in 2009. Lebron should be 4-5 in the Finals after this series with appearances in 07 (loss), 09 (loss), 11 (win), 12 (win), 13 (win), 14 (loss), 15 (win), 16 (loss), and 17 (loss).

Lebron is closer to Jordan than people think and people should not use the 6-0 argument against Lebron because if Michael Jordan was playing against the teams Lebron has faced, he wouldn't be 6-0. At the same time if you put Lebron on the Bulls in the 90's and he faced the same teams Jordan did, he'd be 5-1 in the Finals (because he would have choked the first one way like he did 2011). Lebron will lose this championship and it shouldn't be his fault, but it is his fault he doesn't have at least one more ring, and that's the most disappointing part. But hey, maybe he really pulls a rabbit out of his hat and the Warriors somehow blow a 3-0 lead. If that happens I would say it would make up for 2011 (as his 16 win made up for losing in 15), but when it doesn't happen there will always be a ring he should have had but didn't.

Lebron will be remembered for being in the Finals every year, but there is a reason his team has been the underdog in 6 of the 8 finals he's played in. Hey may win and lose more championships still, who knows if he leaves Cleveland again after next year to create something that could defeat Golden State, only time can tell. Most of his Finals losses are not his fault, plus he's facing greater competition in the in the Finals than both Magic or Jordan, but 2011 is. That's one championship he'll never get back, and that's the most disappointing thing of all.

Bostonjorge
06-09-2017, 02:15 AM
James 4th quarters so far

Game 1 James had 2 points.

Game 2 James had 2 points.

Game 3 a winnable game. James last FG was at the 7 min mark. He had zero FG's made after that point(only 2 free throws at the 4:30 mark). James ended the quarter with 7 points.

That only gets James just below Jordan but is still ahead of KAJ, Magic and Chamberlain. Not even Jordan can get you more 4th quarter points.

smith&wesson
06-09-2017, 02:40 AM
Well if in the West when does he get to the finals? He would have a battle for the most part in every series. In round 1 he would not have had HCA in any series this year out West. In 2007 he would have played the Spurs in the west in round 1 as the Jazz were the 4th seed with Houston 5th and then Cleveland had the next best record.

Doesnt it depend on what team he would be on? I mean if he was on the spurs hed have a pretty good chance to get to the finals from 2003-2014.. only the warriors would be able to stop him in the last 2-3 years ..

smith&wesson
06-09-2017, 02:48 AM
James 4th quarters so far

Game 1 James had 2 points.

Game 2 James had 2 points.

Game 3 a winnable game. James last FG was at the 7 min mark. He had zero FG's made after that point(only 2 free throws at the 4:30 mark). James ended the quarter with 7 points.

That only gets James just below Jordan but is still ahead of KAJ, Magic and Chamberlain. Not even Jordan can get you more 4th quarter points.

Even he admitted he is mentally and physically drained due to GSW having way to much fire power. You have to consider who hes facing and the fact he is averaging an incredibly triple double in the finals on great %.. he went off in the first half of game 3 and got drained in the 2nd half. Its understandable.

Also i think it was classy of him to praise the gsw super team and actually saying they are good for the league when everyone else seems to be hating on them.

Give credit where its due. Replace James with Jordan on this same Cavs team and they still dont beat the Warriors imo.. they are just that dam good. Theres no denying that.

SirSkyHook
06-09-2017, 03:30 AM
Bias Lakers fan checking in.

So Kobe loses in 6 to Boston in 08 with Pau playing his first Finals, and Bynum injured against Boston's big three, and no slack was given.

Magic loses to Bulls in 90 with injured Worthy and no slack was given.....

But LeBron hand pick his team, dominate the East with his super teams for 8 years, gets all the glory and the stats to propel himself up the mountain of goats but when his team loses, it's THERE fault and not his.

Why is it in all his greatness is he being held blameless?

Remember when he was down 3-1 last year? People were saying the same ish!!! lol . Give me a break here. This is the same super star that was a very known flopper in Miami! With a super team in the weakest conference! And he was flopping!!! My God!

I hope to God reports aren't true about him coming to LA. Not the Lakers anyway.

Flopping
Traitor to his home
Choking
Scapegoating​
Never me ***

I thought he was a team first dude because he passes. Doesn't seem team first, and people really turn​ a blind eye to this dude's antics and propel him ahead of others.

Side note*
Only talking of LeBron the player, don't know the man personally. Let's not get carried away.

Lil Rhody
06-09-2017, 05:23 AM
^ aka Peyton Manning

Saddletramp
06-09-2017, 05:50 AM
Don't think Lebron would be coachable with Pop.

Don't compare Popovich with Mike Brown, Blatt, Lue and Spolestra. No idea if Lebron would do everything asked or if he would try to be a GM, but until he's with a coach like Pop, we won't know.

Kevj77
06-09-2017, 05:56 AM
The difference between Jordan and LeBron is MJ played his whole career on one team. Like it or not that counts for something. LeBron has changed teams twice and influenced personal decisions. He is without a doubt a top 5 player of all time, but he has chosen to play in the East (Least) and pick his team mates.

LeBron teams play Iso ball. The Warriors and the Spurs commit to ball movement.

More-Than-Most
06-09-2017, 06:07 AM
The difference between Jordan and LeBron is MJ played his whole career on one team. Like it or not that counts for something. LeBron has changed teams twice and influenced personal decisions. He is without a doubt a top 5 player of all time, but he has chosen to play in the East (Least) and pick his team mates.

LeBron teams play Iso ball. The Warriors and the Spurs commit to ball movement.

Sure it counts if you just throw out facts and ignore the situation... one team went out and got their star player pippen when their team was getting ousted well before the finals over and over and over.... the other franchise tossed mo williams at their star and said go get us a championship... its well documented by most basketball people like Steven A about the behind the scenes situation with the cavs owner and front office... But none of this matters right? Nope... Lebron should have stayed in cleveland and continually allow the cavs owner to milk him of carrying the worst team ever to the finals while banking dollars.

BDawk4Prez
06-09-2017, 07:05 AM
Lebron is a great basketball player, no doubt. Blame him? Yeah, some, sure. He's the coach, the GM, the best player on the court most nights so he should get the blame. Fair? Not always. Over credited? Sure, at times. He's the QB, that's what goes with it.

It will be interesting to see what his next move is.

da ThRONe
06-09-2017, 08:22 AM
The difference between Jordan and LeBron is MJ played his whole career on one team. Like it or not that counts for something. LeBron has changed teams twice and influenced personal decisions. He is without a doubt a top 5 player of all time, but he has chosen to play in the East (Least) and pick his team mates.

LeBron teams play Iso ball. The Warriors and the Spurs commit to ball movement.

So MJ didn't play for the Wizards? Must have dreamt that whole thing up.

Bosston
06-09-2017, 09:31 AM
So MJ didn't play for the Wizards? Must have dreamt that whole thing up.

It's like Montana on the Chiefs... no one cared at that point lol

R. Johnson#3
06-09-2017, 09:40 AM
The only finals Lebron gets a pass on is 2015 where his entire team was hurt. That's it. If people wanna defend his decision to leave his junk team after 07 then look no further than AI. Who was actually able to steal a game from Kobe/Shaq in LA with a team just like the one Lebron had. One that could play defence but was useless on offence. The 2011 finals were probably the greatest thing to happen to basketball in a very long time. Lebron is a ***** but he's still the best player in the World.

R. Johnson#3
06-09-2017, 09:42 AM
So MJ didn't play for the Wizards? Must have dreamt that whole thing up.

Yeah I'm sure it would've been a good look for the OWNER of the Wiz to go play for the Bulls. You sir, are reaching.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2017, 09:44 AM
The only finals Lebron gets a pass on is 2015 where his entire team was hurt. That's it. If people wanna defend his decision to leave his junk team after 07 then look no further than AI. Who was actually able to steal a game from Kobe/Shaq in LA with a team just like the one Lebron had. One that could play defence but was useless on offence. The 2011 finals were probably the greatest thing to happen to basketball in a very long time. Lebron is a ***** but he's still the best player in the World.

2007 he absolutely gets a pass. 2015 as well. Outside that, no. 2011 is a huge stain. I get that when you are supposed to lose, and do, you shouldn't get crushed. But you also don't get credit for losing when you should. Meaning, it doesn't help his legacy at all when they lose this year, even though duh, of course he was going to.

TylerSL
06-09-2017, 10:42 AM
2007 he absolutely gets a pass. 2015 as well. Outside that, no. 2011 is a huge stain. I get that when you are supposed to lose, and do, you shouldn't get crushed. But you also don't get credit for losing when you should. Meaning, it doesn't help his legacy at all when they lose this year, even though duh, of course he was going to.

This 100%

ewing
06-09-2017, 11:19 AM
Yes i can

R. Johnson#3
06-09-2017, 12:02 PM
2007 he absolutely gets a pass. 2015 as well. Outside that, no. 2011 is a huge stain. I get that when you are supposed to lose, and do, you shouldn't get crushed. But you also don't get credit for losing when you should. Meaning, it doesn't help his legacy at all when they lose this year, even though duh, of course he was going to.

Why does he get a pass for 2007? Yeah, they weren't as good as the Spurs but the team was healthy and they made it there. No excuses there. Guys like Malone and Stockton who are arguably 2 of the best ever at their respective positions never got a pass when they lost to the Bulls. In fact, some people leave them out of the conversation for best PG and PF simply because they never got a ring. Look at AI! No pass for him when he couldn't beat the Lakers.

SteBO
06-09-2017, 12:59 PM
Why does he get a pass for 2007? Yeah, they weren't as good as the Spurs but the team was healthy and they made it there. No excuses there. Guys like Malone and Stockton who are arguably 2 of the best ever at their respective positions never got a pass when they lost to the Bulls. In fact, some people leave them out of the conversation for best PG and PF simply because they never got a ring. Look at AI! No pass for him when he couldn't beat the Lakers.
Then maybe there should've been a pass for those guys....and "weren't as good as those guys" when talking 2007 Cavs vs Spurs is a severe understatement if you ask me. Only so much one man can do.

I'm not sure how AI was viewed after he couldn't beat the 2001 Lakers, to be fair, but no human being with reasoning could fault him for the outcome beyond being the best player on the team, unless he underperforms

AllBall
06-09-2017, 01:18 PM
If Lebron goes on to be in every single Finals for the next 5 years, which looks likely, no one can blame him for making it there. Law of averages would mean he will rack up some more rings.

PSD Logic = better to lose in ECF than in Finals for some weird form of honor.

FOXHOUND
06-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Then maybe there should've been a pass for those guys....and "weren't as good as those guys" when talking 2007 Cavs vs Spurs is a severe understatement if you ask me. Only so much one man can do.

I'm not sure how AI was viewed after he couldn't beat the 2001 Lakers, to be fair, but no human being with reasoning could fault him for the outcome beyond being the best player on the team, unless he underperforms

I think you should go back and look at why Tim Duncan didn't win Finals MVP in 2007. Hint: it had more to do with how much he was shut down in games 3 and 4 than Tony Parker playing great. The Cavs lost games 3 and 4 by a combined 4 points, and no it was not because of one man.

RCarlson85
06-09-2017, 01:39 PM
No where near the same, the Celtics traded for there parts, and Kobe and Pay beat that team they were not that good. LeBron is the first mega star to collude with other stars in there prime to play together. Nice try though.

I guess you must not know that the Heat traded for Lebron and Bosh too?

GREATNESS ONE
06-09-2017, 08:17 PM
I guess you must not know that the Heat traded for Lebron and Bosh too?

LOL ok bro, keep telling yourself that.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-09-2017, 08:39 PM
You can blame him for 2011 but not sure about everything else.

Usually people blame the best player, deserving or not. Lebron will get a ton of blame this year even though he's averaging a triple double.

L8kers4life
06-09-2017, 08:42 PM
I guess you must not know that the Heat traded for Lebron and Bosh too?

Give me a break, that was not a real trade those teams took late draft pick simply so the could sign longer deals, they were both free agents

Bostonjorge
06-09-2017, 08:44 PM
We can't blame James for getting little brothered by Durant?

We can't blame James for his man averaging 34 points a finals game?

We can't blame James for having 11 points total in all 4th quarters this finals?

We can't blame James for having a losing finals record?

We just CANT

GREATNESS ONE
06-09-2017, 08:52 PM
We can't blame James for getting little brothered by Durant?

We can't blame James for his man averaging 34 points a finals game?

We can't blame James for having 11 points total in all 4th quarters this finals?

We can't blame James for having a losing finals record?

We just CANT

Lolz! Bro you gotta stop.

GREATNESS ONE
06-09-2017, 08:52 PM
Give me a break, that was not a real trade those teams took late draft pick simply so the could sign longer deals, they were both free agents

Lol it made me laugh he said it. :laugh2:

MJNetsIsles
06-09-2017, 09:45 PM
We can't blame James for getting little brothered by Durant?

We can't blame James for his man averaging 34 points a finals game?

We can't blame James for having 11 points total in all 4th quarters this finals?

We can't blame James for having a losing finals record?

We just CANT

:yawn:

ewing
06-10-2017, 02:05 PM
i blame him for everything i don't like about the NBA. Deal with it :nod:

goingfor28
06-10-2017, 02:54 PM
32/12/12 on 60 plus percent shooting in these finals... historic performance... carried them like only he could the entire first half yesterday and realized he needed to get his team involved for them to win considering he was perfect damn near at 10/11 for 27 points at half and they were down 5.
That's not historic

Al Horford is historic!!!!!

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goingfor28
06-10-2017, 02:55 PM
please dont close this thread yet... i am using it as proof the site is having issues... I am back to posting from the future as you can see with the 2 posts above me.
LOL I've noticed this in several threads lately

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PropheticGeius
06-10-2017, 03:33 PM
The east has been a joke for over a decade


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More-Than-Most
06-10-2017, 03:49 PM
lebron james YET AGAIN... Is the best player in the finals for either team

FlashBolt
06-10-2017, 04:31 PM
Durant would leave this current Cavs team minus LeBron to join the Warriors and ya'll acting like Durant can carry the Cavs the way LeBron is doing. It is hilarious.

MJNetsIsles
06-10-2017, 05:31 PM
Durant would leave this current Cavs team minus LeBron to join the Warriors and ya'll acting like Durant can carry the Cavs the way LeBron is doing. It is hilarious.

Facts!!

Crackadalic
06-10-2017, 06:20 PM
I think the posters here getting upset is assuming we think Lebron is immune to criticism. He absolutely gets a pass on 2 of the 8 finals while the rest is on him win or lose.

07 and 15 are the only years you can give him a pass on. The rest we can debate with an open mind. Well except 2011 at least. Thats on him

nysportsfan23
06-10-2017, 06:50 PM
People can debate it, but the majority of people are gonna consider mj better unless lebron matches or passes 6 rings. I definitely agree with that. He's definitely top 5 all time, all time team is Kareem Magic Jordan Duncan Lebron, I think that's sealed shut for a long time.

Bostonjorge
06-10-2017, 09:27 PM
I think the posters here getting upset is assuming we think Lebron is immune to criticism. He absolutely gets a pass on 2 of the 8 finals while the rest is on him win or lose.

07 and 15 are the only years you can give him a pass on. The rest we can debate with an open mind. Well except 2011 at least. Thats on him

So James can get a pass for losing because of the odds. So what about his wins? If he won with great odds do we count the win or is also a pass?

One Nut Kruk
06-10-2017, 11:05 PM
How can you possibly blame the best player in the league who handpicked his team and have the highest payroll in NBA history? I mean, poor guy.

da ThRONe
06-11-2017, 07:45 AM
So James can get a pass for losing because of the odds. So what about his wins? If he won with great odds do we count the win or is also a pass?

All things have to be taken in context. For example there's plenty talk of the legitimacy of a title for Durant if the Warriors go on to close the series out. I think LeBron gets a total pass on that 07 year and he gets a huge deduction for the 11 lost. All his wins weren't against total outmatched teams and all his other losses he wasn't totally out classed(with exception to this year and 07). The level of competition should matter in any thorough discussion.

GREATNESS ONE
06-11-2017, 05:04 PM
How can you possibly blame the best player in the league who handpicked his team and have the highest payroll in NBA history? I mean, poor guy.

Lolz! /Thread.

D-Leethal
06-11-2017, 05:04 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?

GREATNESS ONE
06-11-2017, 05:04 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?

Lolz /Thread!

GREATNESS ONE
06-11-2017, 05:06 PM
People can debate it, but the majority of people are gonna consider mj better unless lebron matches or passes 6 rings. I definitely agree with that. He's definitely top 5 all time, all time team is Kareem Magic Jordan Duncan Lebron, I think that's sealed shut for a long time.

MJ
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
5-7 Duncan, LBJ, Kobe, any order
8-11 Hakeem, Bird, Russell, Big O any order

More-Than-Most
06-11-2017, 06:39 PM
MJ
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
5-7 Duncan, LBJ, Kobe, any order
8-11 Hakeem, Bird, Russell, Big O any order

so magic whom has lost like 4 plus times in the finals or whatever and has had easier competition with better teammates is ahead of lebron? and I love magic.. I personally overrate him more than anyone

MJ
Kareem
Lebron/Wilt




Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem


Bird/Kobe/Russ in any order. I see no argument at all for Kobe in the top 7.... 9-11 is where he belongs.... and sadly will end up falling out of the top 10 because of Durant.

DW3421
06-11-2017, 07:15 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?

Great point, if we are going to give James a pass for facing tough competition in the Finals, then we have to slow our role on giving him so much credit for getting to the finals 8 straight times against putrid competition.

GREATNESS ONE
06-11-2017, 07:16 PM
so magic whom has lost like 4 plus times in the finals or whatever and has had easier competition with better teammates is ahead of lebron? and I love magic.. I personally overrate him more than anyone

MJ
Kareem
Lebron/Wilt




Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem


Bird/Kobe/Russ in any order. I see no argument at all for Kobe in the top 7.... 9-11 is where he belongs.... and sadly will end up falling out of the top 10 because of Durant.

Yes Magic is one of the best ever. Stop showing your age and appreciate greatness

jason
06-11-2017, 07:18 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?
Finally some logic.. Great post

Jamiecballer
06-11-2017, 07:56 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?
Because he is literally the reason they are lightyears better. Duh. You are literally penalizing him for being such an impactful player.

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FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 08:32 PM
Because he is literally the reason they are lightyears better. Duh. You are literally penalizing him for being such an impactful player.

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There is zero logic to this thinking. If LeBron was literally the reason they were light years better than his teams would have been light years better from 2004-2010. In 2012, Kevin Love finished 6th in MVP voting. In 2014, Kevin Love was 2nd Team All-NBA. Kevin Love is the 3rd best player on the Cavs. If you put Isaiah Thomas, DeMar DeRozan and Paul George on the same team, then you may have an east team close in top end talent.

By this same logic, Kevin Durant is the reason Golden State is so much better than Cleveland.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 08:52 PM
If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?

Because he's the reason his team is "lightyears" better.

DW3421
06-11-2017, 09:03 PM
Because he is literally the reason they are lightyears better. Duh. You are literally penalizing him for being such an impactful player.

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Lebrons greatness is not what makes the rest of the East so damn sorry!

The fact is he faces almost zero comp on the way to the finals. Toronto and the C's, c'mon man.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 09:04 PM
There is zero logic to this thinking. If LeBron was literally the reason they were light years better than his teams would have been light years better from 2004-2010. In 2012, Kevin Love finished 6th in MVP voting. In 2014, Kevin Love was 2nd Team All-NBA. Kevin Love is the 3rd best player on the Cavs. If you put Isaiah Thomas, DeMar DeRozan and Paul George on the same team, then you may have an east team close in top end talent.

By this same logic, Kevin Durant is the reason Golden State is so much better than Cleveland.

You are over simplifying, and are over looking the talent he had around him, competition, his personal growth and team chemistry. His failures or shortcomings do not negate the premise that he's the reasons his teams operate at optimal levels, which in turn, translate to wins.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 09:23 PM
Lebrons greatness is not what makes the rest of the East so damn sorry!

The fact is he faces almost zero comp on the way to the finals. Toronto and the C's, c'mon man.

Yeah he's went up against weaker teams in the East in comparison to the West, but the reason they win those game is because of LeBron. Unless there is another narrative that is being pushed here, I don't understand the confusion.

This was the question:


If you can't blame him for losing in the Finals to a team that is better how can you give him credit for getting to the Finals when his team was lightyears ahead of the competition on the way there?

I thought the answer was obvious.

DW3421
06-11-2017, 09:33 PM
If we are going to give James a pass for facing tough competition in the Finals, then we have to slow our role on giving him so much credit for getting to the finals 8 straight times against putrid competition.

Nobody is denying that Lebron's greatness is why his teams are better than the sorry *** East, but our point is this ^^^ above quote!


Who is the 2nd best player in the East?

Bostonjorge
06-11-2017, 09:36 PM
so magic whom has lost like 4 plus times in the finals or whatever and has had easier competition with better teammates is ahead of lebron? and I love magic.. I personally overrate him more than anyone

MJ
Kareem
Lebron/Wilt




Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem


Bird/Kobe/Russ in any order. I see no argument at all for Kobe in the top 7.... 9-11 is where he belongs.... and sadly will end up falling out of the top 10 because of Durant.

So the biggest choke in the history of mankind against Dallas only gets you below MJ and KAJ?

Having the worst finals record and the only player with a losing finals record out of the top 30 players ever only gets you behind Jordan KAJ?

Getting swept in the finals only gets you behind MJ and KAJ?

Making history by losing like no one ever in finals to the Spurs. Don't know if that record can be broken even if you tried losing. New Jersey Nets didn't even lose that bad to the Lakers. That only gets you behind Jordan and KAJ?

Scoring 2 points or less in 3 out of 4 fourth quarters in a FINALS series only gets you behind MJ and KAJ?

Beating the Hawks, Raptors and Hurt Celtics team the past 3 years in the conference finals gets you behind MJ and KAJ?

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 09:36 PM
You are over simplifying, and are over looking the talent he had around him, competition, his personal growth and team chemistry. His failures or shortcomings do not negate the premise that he's the reasons his teams operate at optimal levels, which in turn, translate to wins.

I am not overlooking anything. Beyond having the best player in the NBA, Cleveland has far more talent than any team in the east by far. How different is that Indiana series if you swap Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love with Jeff Teague and Thaddeus Young?

From 2004-2010, it was always talk about it's his teammates fault. From 2011-2017, it has been talk about how it's all LeBron. It is always a team game, and yes the better your best player is the more likely it is for your team to be better than your opponent. Cleveland still has far more talent than any team in the east.

Saddletramp
06-11-2017, 09:37 PM
Jeez, guys. You'll come up with anything. It's not Lebron's fault that other teams in the East haven't built up their teams to really give any Lebron team a harder road. Boston has been sitting on assets for years but haven't pulled the trigger. NY is the biggest market in the world but it's not Lebron's fault that James Dolan is an idiot and puts guys in place that have killed the Knicks for years. It's not Lebron's fault that LMA, KD, CP3, Kobe, the Spurs, the Warriors, Westbrook, Harden, etc have all been in the West.


The West is better, that's not on Lebron unless everyone is scared of going East because of him. And that's not on him. And Lebron didn't go West because he was drafted East, left to play in the only city that Wade and Bosh went to (Miami was the only way to form that) and then went back to his hometown, which is in the East.


Jeez, guys. Anything to fit your narrative.

Jamiecballer
06-11-2017, 09:40 PM
I am not overlooking anything. Beyond having the best player in the NBA, Cleveland has far more talent than any team in the east by far. How different is that Indiana series if you swap Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love with Jeff Teague and Thaddeus Young?

From 2004-2010, it was always talk about it's his teammates fault. From 2011-2017, it has been talk about how it's all LeBron. It is always a team game, and yes the better your best player is the more likely it is for your team to be better than your opponent. Cleveland still has far more talent than any team in the east.
The Raptors, Celtics and Wizards all would have had an excellent chance getting past a LEBRON-LESS cavs

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FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 09:40 PM
Nobody is denying that Lebron's greatness is why his teams are better than the sorry *** East, but our point is this ^^^ above quote!


Who is the 2nd best player in the East?

Probably Giannis.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 09:41 PM
The Raptors, Celtics and Wizards all would have had an excellent chance getting past a LEBRON-LESS cavs

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Okay, now also take the best player off of their teams. I don't understand this logic.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 09:44 PM
I am not overlooking anything. Beyond having the best player in the NBA, Cleveland has far more talent than any team in the east by far. How different is that Indiana series if you swap Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love with Jeff Teague and Thaddeus Young?

From 2004-2010, it was always talk about it's his teammates fault. From 2011-2017, it has been talk about how it's all LeBron. It is always a team game, and yes the better your best player is the more likely it is for your team to be better than your opponent. Cleveland still has far more talent than any team in the east.

Take out LeBron from this team, and do they cake walk through the East? Replace LeBron with depth if you like. If your answer is yes, then we have differing opinions on Irving and Love. That's fine, It happens.

Jamiecballer
06-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Okay, now also take the best player off of their teams. I don't understand this logic.
That's pretty obvious, I mean you just said that Cleveland still has far more talent than any other east team

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DW3421
06-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Jeez, guys. You'll come up with anything. It's not Lebron's fault that other teams in the East haven't built up their teams to really give any Lebron team a harder road. Boston has been sitting on assets for years but haven't pulled the trigger. NY is the biggest market in the world but it's not Lebron's fault that James Dolan is an idiot and puts guys in place that have killed the Knicks for years. It's not Lebron's fault that LMA, KD, CP3, Kobe, the Spurs, the Warriors, Westbrook, Harden, etc have all been in the West.


The West is better, that's not on Lebron unless everyone is scared of going East because of him. And that's not on him. And Lebron didn't go West because he was drafted East, left to play in the only city that Wade and Bosh went to (Miami was the only way to form that) and then went back to his hometown, which is in the East.


Jeez, guys. Anything to fit your narrative.

We know the West is much better and we know that isn't brons fault, but what we are saying, is if he gets a pass for losing to better finals teams, then he should not get so much credit for reaching 8 finals while facing putrid competition!

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Think of it this way, with the other top SFs in the east. If you swap LeBron with Giannis, George or Butler, what do the east standings look like? Is LeBron's team still the sleepwalking favorite if those guys are on Cleveland and he's on their team? The answer is obviously no.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 09:49 PM
Take out LeBron from this team, and do they cake walk through the East? Replace LeBron with depth if you like. If your answer is yes, then we have differing opinions on Irving and Love. That's fine, It happens.


That's pretty obvious, I mean you just said that Cleveland still has far more talent than any other east team

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The fact that you have to completely remove LeBron for the other teams to stand a chance beating them is exactly the point lol.

Jamiecballer
06-11-2017, 09:50 PM
Think of it this way, with the other top SFs in the east. If you swap LeBron with Giannis, George or Butler, what do the east standings look like? Is LeBron's team still the sleepwalking favorite if those guys are on Cleveland and he's on their team? The answer is obviously no.
Milwaukee and chicago, yes. Indy probably not.

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aman_13
06-11-2017, 09:52 PM
The fact that you have to completely remove LeBron for the other teams to stand a chance beating them is exactly the point lol.

You are missing the point. Read Leethal's question. It's not that hard.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 10:02 PM
Milwaukee and chicago, yes. Indy probably not.

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I agree that they would still be the favorite, but not the 12-1, 10+ average margin, highest offensive rating in playoff history juggernaut that they were. That's the point, they have absolutely no competition in the east as is.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 10:05 PM
You are missing the point. Read Leethal's question. It's not that hard.

It seems like me and Leethal agree, so I don't see how I'm misunderstanding his question. I can say take Durant completely off the Warriors and the Cavs would be favorites in the Finals, but that's not reality so it doesn't matter.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 10:28 PM
It seems like me and Leethal agree, so I don't see how I'm misunderstanding his question. I can say take Durant completely off the Warriors and the Cavs would be favorites in the Finals, but that's not reality so it doesn't matter.

LeBron is reason they are as good as they are and make the competition look so inferior. That was my response to the question. Taking him out of the picture was my attempt to illustrate that they aren't locks to get to the ECF, let alone finals.

We obviously disagree about just how good his supporting cast is.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2017, 10:50 PM
LeBron is reason they are as good as they are and make the competition look so inferior. That was my response to the question. Taking him out of the picture was my attempt to illustrate that they aren't locks to get to the ECF, let alone finals.

We obviously disagree about just how good his supporting cast is.

You single out LeBron and leave out the simple fact that it is a team game, that is your problem. Is LeBron the biggest reason? Of course, I have never seen anyone suggest otherwise. If LeBron didn't need a stacked team to do what he has been doing the past 7 years then he would have never left Cleveland to begin with.

aman_13
06-11-2017, 11:22 PM
You single out LeBron and leave out the simple fact that it is a team game, that is your problem. Is LeBron the biggest reason? Of course, I have never seen anyone suggest otherwise. If LeBron didn't need a stacked team to do what he has been doing the past 7 years then he would have never left Cleveland to begin with.

He needs talent to win, what a surprise. All greats do. He didn't have much help at all prior to leaving Cleveland. Even when he got the talent, he needed to be the best player in the world to win.

More-Than-Most
06-12-2017, 12:07 AM
take lebron off the cavs and add anyone not named Durant and they dont make the finals out east... take lebron off the cavs and let kyrie/love be the 2 that lead and they are an 8 seed at best and that is being generous. The east is weak because lebron makes it weak.

FOXHOUND
06-12-2017, 12:15 AM
He needs talent to win, what a surprise. All greats do. He didn't have much help at all prior to leaving Cleveland. Even when he got the talent, he needed to be the best player in the world to win.

Why you assume I think this is something exclusive to LeBron is beyond me. It isn't hard to see why he has gone to 7 straight Finals out of that east with the teams he has had. Part of that is him being great and part of that is him having by far the best talent in the east over that time as well.

They have lost a total of 5 games in the east playoffs the past three years. That is not something that happens because of one player, but the collection of a team and their advantage over their competition. Boston's 53-wins is the lowest win total for a 1 seed in a decade, when the east was so weak that LeBron's Cavs played a 41-win team in the 2nd round. The east is extremely weak right now, sorry.